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HOMEBREW Digest #3620
HOMEBREW Digest #3620 Mon 30 April 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Farenheit scale, was re: degrees C -> degrees F (John_E_Schnupp)
Mills ("rkalvig")
temperatures (mash..not C->F) (leavitdg)
CO, WY, UT, NM Beers (kingkelly)
Re: degrees C -> degrees F (Jeff Renner)
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalten (Wayne Aldrich)
O2 Regulators / Homebrew Clubs ("D. Schultz")
Re: Mills (Bill Riel)
AHA Board candidate support statement: Dave Dixon ("Dean Fikar")
Jim's 1st Compendium of Unusual Beer Links (Jim Adwell)
RE: Which ROller MIll / Valley Mill ("Steven Parfitt")
Valley (Pat Babcock)
Drill Speed (Rick Lassabe)
Air lock in RIMS (David N Boice)
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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:12:32 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp@amat.com
Subject: Farenheit scale, was re: degrees C -> degrees F
Alan asks:
>Why would anyone pick 32 as a starting point?
Actually there is a good reason. I knew that 0F is based
"somewhat" on the freezing point of salt water. I was going
to spout off and say this too, but I actually thought for a
minute and decided I wanted to make sure I had the story
correct. I also knew there was a reason that the boiling
point of water is 212F but had CRS syndrome. SO I went
poking around on the www.
I found this on the Mad Sci Network. A good explanation to
the Fahrenheit scale.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/mar99/921961717.Ph.r.html
The Celsius scale uses the freezing and boiling points of water
as its fixed points. In the 17th century they used the lowest
attainable temperature (achieved by mixing salt with water) as
their Zero degree and the temperature of the body as the other
fixed point.
At this time a man called Roemer had invented a scale which
Daniel Farenheit used as the basis for his own scale. Farenheit
did not understand Roemer's scale properly, but he took it to
mean that the freezing point of water was at 7 1/2 degrees and
that the body temperature was 22 1/2 degrees.
He put Roemer's scale on one of his thermometers and then
sub-divided each degree into four parts to make it more accurate.
This now gave him a scale where the freezing of water was on the
30th sub-division and the body temperature was on the 90th
sub-division.
Farenheit did not like the fact that the fixed points were not
exactly on a major division on Roemer's scale so he altered it.
He set the freezing point at 8 degrees and the body temperature
at 24 degrees. When he sub-divided each degree the freezing
point was at 32nd sub-division and the body temperature was at
98th sub-division. This is very close to the modern Farenheit
scale.
At some stage the idea of using the boiling point as a fixed
point gained more acceptance. Now Farenheit reported in an
article that on his scale the boiling point of water was actually
212 degrees. This was not accurate but that did not matter.
Everybody who used the Farenheit scale set the fixed points at
32 and 212 degrees. When body temperature was measured using this
final scale it was found to be 98.6 degrees Farenheit.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 01:20:24 -0600
From: "rkalvig" <rkalvig@msn.com>
Subject: Mills
Check out this mill I got one and love it . www.crankandstein.com I bought
the 3 roller one .
if you have any questions don't hesitate to email me.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 06:20:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: leavitdg@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: temperatures (mash..not C->F)
thankyou for all the comments on C-> conversion...but this
comment has to do with Jeff's comment below:
on commenting on Dave's higher than wanted final gravity:
yes it does seem to make sense that the Munuch and
CaraMunich...along with the high (154F) mash temp could
be the culprit/s.
My question is this: What would be the difference, in terms of the final
product if one were to:
1) proceed directly to mash out temps (170F) after the rest at 148F or so..
<do not pass go,...do not collect 200 dollars>
OR
2) take a short rest at 154F before proceeding to mashout?
I have been thinking about this for a while...and finally saw the opportunity
to ask.
Any thoughts?
..Darrell
(thinking way too much about brewing.......)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 07:38:54 -0400
From: kingkelly@juno.com
Subject: CO, WY, UT, NM Beers
Hi All,
First post from me, although I really enjoy reading the HBD everyday
(except Sunday, of course.) My husband and I are going to CO and
surrounding area this June. This is a request for assistance in finding
the best brewpubs and drinking the best microbrewed beer while there. We
are going to be in Denver, Colorado Springs, Grand Junction, and
Telluride over a period of 12 days. In between those places, we will
also be in Cheyenne/Laramie, WY, eastern UT, and northern NM. I have
researched the web at Realbeer.com and Allaboutbeer.com, but those sites
are sometimes not up-to-date. The best site that I have seen is
beerismylife.com. I have also read the comments and suggestions of Mitch
Mather at http://www.henge.com/~mmather/, but his site was last updated
in August, and you know how quickly brewpubs close (and new ones open,
fortunately!) Any ideas on the places to definitely visit, as well as
those to definitely miss would be much appreciated!
Brew on!
Esther King
President (aka SWMBO)
Star City Brewers' Guild
Roanoke, VA
http://hbd.org/starcity/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 08:31:50 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: degrees C -> degrees F
Alan in PEI <elal@pei.sympatico.ca> wrote
> - thin ice on puddles, about 0 C so that must be 32 F. Why would
>anyone pick 32 as a starting point?
You're showing your Celsius bias! Fahrenheit's starting point wasn't
the freezing point of water. As a kid I heard that Herr Fahrenheit
waited until his unscaled thermometer registered as low as it ever
had (not sure of how long he waited - maybe all winter?) and chose
that as 0 degrees, then took his temperature (following the
Australian footie rules) and used that as 100 degrees. Evidently he
was running a slight fever.
(World Book Encyclopedia it was the freezing point of water, salt and
ice. It also says that he chose 96 as the temperature of the human
body. That seems implausible. Why would you choose 96 rather than
100?)
One nice thing about the Fahrenheit scale is that in our climate, the
outside temperature generally ranges between 0 and 100. Another nice
thing is that it is more finely divided, and sometimes one degree F
makes a difference. As opposed to metric units, Celsius is really no
better intrinsically than Fahrenheit. It is just as arbitrary and
makes calculations no easier. Of course, it is so completely
associated with the metric system that it makes no sense to use
metrics and Fahrenheit. It would require new units, for one thing.
>1 degree C = 1.6 degree F
No - it's 1.8.
It sure is ridiculous for the world's largest economy to have refused
to join the rest of the world on this. In 1975 the US Congress
passes the Metric Conversion Act, but it called only for a voluntary
conversion, despite a congressional study's recommendation that there
be a planned conversion. Even that was going forward when the Regan
administration halted the government's participation, which killed
it. I don't know when/if we will ever get on board. Maybe after we
lose another Mars mission?
Jeff
- --
***Please note new address*** (old one will still work)
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:56:40 +0200
From: Aldrich4@t-online.de (Wayne Aldrich)
Subject: Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalten
Hopfen und Malz Gott erhalt's. This is a very old German saying
that refers to the brewer's art. The Hopfen and Malz does indeed
refer to hops and barley. The Gott erhalts roughly translated into
English means god will provide or god takes care of the rest.
This is taken from the verb erhalten, meaning to maintain, sustain
or preserve. I agree with Jeff, this is a colloquialism of the verb
so it will rhyme nicely with Malz. This last part of the saying is a
reference to yeast. Before Louis Pasture isolated the yeast cell
as the means of fermentation in beer (1860) it was believed that
a miracle took place in the creation of beer. Incidentally, I've brewed
a couple home brews that tasted as if there had been divine intervention.
However, I have also brewed a few that could use a miracle!
Prost!
Wayne Aldrich
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:23:56 -0700
From: "D. Schultz" <d2schultz@qwest.net>
Subject: O2 Regulators / Homebrew Clubs
O2 Regulators:
If you haven't gone the Liquid Bread/Bernzomatic route yet let me present an
alternative. Go to Ebay and find yourself a medical grade O2 regulator. They
can usually be picked up for around $20. Don't get the style that hooks up
like a scuba tank (see Ebay item# 582607009). Get a welding style (see Ebay
Item#582557195) one even if it has the scuba type hookup because the tank
fitting can be replaced with a conventional fitting. Apparently, they retire
a lot of the medical grade regulators for some reason. Then just go down to
your local welding supply and get a welding grade tank of O2, buy an
airstone. Total outlay should be just under $100.
Yeah, it's not cheap but those Bernzomatic cannisters will add up. If you
brew 15 times a year, your return on investment will be about 2 years and
you won't have enven refilled your O2 tank yet as they hold >2Ksi. The
Medical O2 regulators are cool in that they adjust by volume flow not
pressure so it's hard to blow off your airstone and lose it in your wort.
________________________________________________________
Homebrew clubs will vary by club but don't trust any member to be a proper
judge of your beers until you have had the opportunity to see how well
he/she evaluates beers. I had beers that many say are good to excellent and
then have a more experienced person pick up an obvious flaw. I also had one
of the experienced tasters pick up a flaw and then start running around the
place annoucing loudly for everyone to share the beer to confirm the flaw. A
note to club members: when you spot problems with someones beer, they'll
usually appreciate honest and QUIET feedback!
Burp,
-Dan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:30:28 -0700
From: Bill Riel <bill.riel@home.com>
Subject: Re: Mills
The man from Plaid wrote:
> Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
>
> "John Lovett" <john.lovett@amcor.com.au> writes...
>
> > I am thinking of buying a roller mill. It would seem to come down to a
> > choice between the Listermann and Valley mills. Has anyone experience of
> > either of these and the pros and cons of each? I'm just trying to get some
> > recommendations.
>
> Do they still even make the Valley Mill? I thought they had gone out of
> business a few years back. If so, that would significantly narrow the
> field for me: hard to get support from a dead company.
Don't know where you got that particular idea from (or was this a sly,
covert effort to revive the 'mill wars' ;-), but they're still in
business and doing fine: http://www.web.net/~valley/valleymill.html
fwiw, I own a Valley Mill - I've only owned it about two months, but I
*love* it. Well made, adjustable, easy to motorize and a good sized
hopper. On a slightly different tangent, I've tried Dave Burley's
recommendation of double milling, first at a courser setting, then very
fine, and I really like the results. It is surprisingly fast, too.
- --
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:23:00 -0700
From: "Dean Fikar" <dfikar@flash.net>
Subject: AHA Board candidate support statement: Dave Dixon
I would like to take this opportunity to put in a plug for a friend and
fellow brewer who has been nominated for the AHA Board of Advisors. I have
known Dave Dixon for about three years now. We have attended many of the
same local brew club meetings and competitions and I have gotten to know him
pretty well. I think Dave's greatest asset is his enthusiasm for brewing.
I have had the pleasure of meeting a lot of homebrewers both locally and
nationally over the last few years and can honestly say that I know of no
one more enthusiastic about homebrewing than Dave. This guy gets more
pumped about brewing, club meetings, competitions, and beer in general than
anyone I know. As a relatively new brewer, I believe that his infectious
enthusiasm would be a big asset to the AHA board.
Dave also possesses another quality that would be of benefit to the AHA
board. He has done a wonderful job as founder and organizer of the NET
Hoppers homebrew club here in North Texas and, more recently, as director of
the 2001 Bluebonnet Brewoff. For those of you not familiar with the
Bluebonnet Brewoff, it is the largest single site competition in the country
and it takes an enormous amount of effort and skill to put all the pieces
together, as anyone who has ever organized a big competition knows. Those
of you who attended the Bluebonnet last month are aware of what a great
event it was. I believe that it was the best run competition of any that I
have attended, here or elsewhere.
Lastly, aside from being a good all round guy, Dave is an excellent brewer
and has won a bunch of awards in regional and national competitions. He is
an experienced beer judge and is quite good at it. He has competently
judged a number of my beers in competitions and has given me helpful
feedback. His only flaw in this regard is that he has not a awarded me
enough medals and ribbons for the beers he's judged! ;^)
I'm finding it quite difficult to pick the six candidates to vote for. The
problem is not finding six worthy candidates but rather eliminating three
from the list of nine very qualified people. I do know, however, that one
of my votes will go for Dave Dixon and I would encourage others to follow my
lead.
Dean Fikar
Fort Worth, TX
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 18:37:02 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jim@jimala.com>
Subject: Jim's 1st Compendium of Unusual Beer Links
Informative, odd, funny, and/or just plain weird beer links, to entertain
and educate, amaze and amuse.
The name says it all (or does it?) :
http://www.mothersmilkbrewing.com/
http://www.threestoogesbeer.com/frameset.htm
Ever wondered how old that beer in the store is?:
http://www.bauser.com/beer/
Yeast weirdness:
http://www.sirius.com/~merojo/hopheads/gm_yeast.html
http://www.purefood.org/ge/devioddna.cfm
Weird beer recipes:
http://www.usd.edu/~jwortham/saloon.html
http://www.olympus.net/personal/skyline/madcow/hotbeer.htm
http://bbq.about.com/food/bbq/library/weekly/aa100400a.htm
Beer here and there:
http://www.fas.usda.gov/info/agexporter/1997/beerch.html
http://www.hawaiianhistory.org/brewing.html
http://www.radio.cz/beer/
http://www.erm.ee/pysi/engpages/olu.html
Free beer, anyone?:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/science/urbanlegends/library/blmiller.htm
Hops are really, really good:
http://www.junkscience.com/news/thisbud.htm
http://www.lougehrigsdisease.net/als_news/990106beer_could.htm
Ultrasonics and beer:
http://www.tsc.co.jp/~honda-el/cat_e/cat_030.html
http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20010109/te_beer.html
By the time you read this I will be on my way to Nashville for a week,
where I hope to find Dave Miller's brewpub, if he's still there, and
chastise him severely for advocating starting a siphon by sucking on the
hose - yecch!! ( just kidding, Dave ).
If any one out there in HBD land has any fun beer links to add to these, I
hope they will post them in future Digests.
Cheers, Jim
Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://brewery.jimala.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:40:45 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Which ROller MIll / Valley Mill
Pat Babcock <pbabcock@hbd.org> Replies to JOhn Lovett with
.....
>Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
.....
Snip
>Do they still even make the Valley Mill? I thought they had gone out of
>business a few years back. If so, that would significantly narrow the
>field for me: hard to get support from a dead company.
- --
-
See ya!
...
No, since they are still in business.
I bought mine in February of this year for $119 + $19S/h. They sell direct,
so the shipping to the US is a little high. Try (613) 731-6436, or e-mail at
valley@web.net
I dropped a set of shieves and a intermideate shaft to set the rpm to 100.
works like a charm.
No affiliation, satisfied customer, yada, yada, yada.
Steven
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 22:20:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: Valley
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Seems I was confused and Valley is still around making a fine product! My
apologies!
-
--
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 07:54:59 -0500
From: Rick Lassabe <bayrat@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Drill Speed
With the re-birth thread about which grain mill is best, I started
wondering, Hmmmm??? Just how does one go about determining how many rpm
the drill is turning while crushing grain? Is there some way to attach a
tachometer? Perhaps place a white mark on the chuck then use a timing
light with built in tack. If there is a timing light with tachometer?
I bet someone has already figured this question out, or I may have
some of you falling on the floor from laughter at either the question or
just how simple the answer is. At any rate, to quote someone; "The only
dumb question is one that's not asked".
Rick Lassabe
Bayrat's "Bayou Degradable Brewery"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:13:46 -0400
From: David N Boice <daveboice@juno.com>
Subject: Air lock in RIMS
Well I've been racking my brain to no avail, but maybe someone else can
figure it out. My brew setup is a RIMS built around a converted keg. It
uses a false bottom with a 1/2" copper pipe coming up through the center
of it and then to a welded coupling on the side. After a 1/2" ball valve
on the other side of the coupling, wort then runs down about a foot,
through 1/2" braided vinyl tubing, into the pump, through another 1/2"
ball valve, more vinyl, and on to the heater, before returning to the top
of the mash.
The reason I describe all of this in detail is I can't understand why
I'm getting air in-line, sometimes to the extent that it air locks and
stops the flow altogether! When I brewed last Saturday I filled the
mash-tun with enough water to give me 1.5 qts. per pound , heated the
water to strike temps. but instead of dumping the grist in immediately I
just let I cycle for a while to try to see what was happening. Nothing!
No air bubbles to be seen, no problem at all. Well at least there was no
problem until I finally did put the grain in, then it started in. The
bubbles seem to be coming out of the mash-tun itself and collect in the
vinyl line between it and the pump, but remember the grains are covered
by several inches of water and the inlet to the line is completely
submerged. My brewing partner and I were completely baffled. We shut down
the flow to next to nothing using the valve on the outlet side of the
pump to make sure we weren't pulling wort out faster then it could flow
through the grain, but it didn't help. We removed the quick connects and
even the valve from between the mash-tun and the pump mid-brew (wasn't
that fun!) to make sure they weren't leaking, but the air bubbles kept
showing up. Lastly we turned off the RIMS heater to see if the heat
might somehow be responsible, but of course it wasn't.
It seems to me to have to be some kind of a stuck sparge type of
problem because straight water worked fine, but we really did play with
the flow rate a lot with no success. It's not a constant phenomena
either, it might recirculate fine for 30-40 minutes, then the bubbles
start, then back to OK.
I'm out of ideas, and would greatly appreciate any ideas the collective
has. It's a pain to deal with not to mention HSA issues. Thanks in
advance.
Dave Boice
Lancster Ohio
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3620, 04/30/01
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