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HOMEBREW Digest #3629
HOMEBREW Digest #3629 Thu 10 May 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Jethro Gump on Proper Licenses ("Rob Moline")
Barley Wine ("Greenly, Jeff")
Re: Idophor killed my carbonation....? (Alex Hazlett)
re: Selling Homebrew ("Mark Tumarkin")
re: Idophor killed my carbonation....? ("Mark Tumarkin")
Glycogen level ? ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
RE: queueFermentation Time? ("Steven Parfitt")
<Draft> Declaration (Darrell.Leavitt)
re: pyrex reaction (jal)
Help a German micro ("Sebastian Padilla")
re; broken carbonator (jal)
Re: All Grain Brewing ("Dennis Collins")
Sticky Name Tags on Zymurgy ("Andrew Moore")
Re: Idophor killed my carbonation....? (Jeff Renner)
Re: Carbonation, newby all grain advice ("Doug Hurst")
Re: Whirlfloc ("Houseman, David L")
Pyrex (Brad Miller)
Re: Corn Tortillas ("patrick finerty jr.")
re: twist top bottles ("Frank J. Russo")
Re: My Vienna (Jeff Renner)
apple cider (Kevin Johnson)
Re:calculating S.G. in split batch (Patrick and Jennifer Fimbres)
FW: MCAB 1st Place Bitter ("Paul Kensler")
Joe's first all-grain ("elvira toews")
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Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 00:23:08 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <lallemand-yeast@home.com>
Subject: Jethro Gump on Proper Licenses
Proper Licenses
>From: Brian Myers <BrianM@AdvantageGroup.co.nz>
>Subject: Selling on the Internet
>Matthew has a knee-jerk reaction:
>>Matt asks about selling his homebrew and homemade wine on the internet.
>One
>>word DON'T. It not legal. <SNIP>
>Re-read his original post. He was asking for legal advice.
>He wasn't asking how to break the law. After all, there ARE "proper
>licenses as a micro-brewer".
>cheers,
>Brian
>Auckland
I responded privately to this one...but had no reply....Matthew is
right...and sorry Brian, BATF will more rapidly issue a Brewer's Notice
approval to a brewery attempting to be licensed from a private home....to
Saddam Hussein in Baghdad than they will to Matt.
Much less the city, county, and state, depending on your jurisdictional
boundaries and codes. Does Matt even know how to "Protect the Revenue," or
to document his capacity to do so? Can he document his ability to master and
meet inspection of the fire codes, building codes, health codes, electrical
codes, plumbing and environmental codes, and in our state/county withstand
the fingerprinting and photographic record of a mug shot for the Vice Squad?
(Thanks, Al Capone!)
Can he set up a legal entity to protect him...if he gets sued for a
'frog in a pint?' Believe me, it has been tried, and will eat up your
money...fast.
More to the point, would the profit from such an operation even cover
the Brewer's Annual Tax of USD $ 1000.00, and the Federal Annual Retail
License Tax of USD $ 250.00...not even to mention the (in most states)
monthly tax revenues, and the BATF's Period Taxes on Determination Vessel
movements? (Can he even define Determination Vessel?)
What about the Federal Brewer's bond? Or the state's Bond? Can you get
a Federal Tax ID Number or a state sales tax approval?
What about the various city/county licenses? These vary from
jurisdiction to jurisdiction...but we even have to pay a $150 county Dance
License fee, 'cos we have music in the brewpub! (Sorry, Matt, in our town,
you can't have the radio on, in case someone starts moving in a manner that
might be described as "not standing still!")
Perhaps we have 20 licenses? Hell, I don't know. That's what General
Managers are for.
All for selling a couple of hundred gallons (perhaps 500? A thousand?)
of brew a year?
Sorry, Will Robinson, it does not compute.
At best, it's wishful thinking...at worst...you'll get busted.
YES, it is possible.... Perhaps you live in a commercial building, that
meets codes for commercial zoning, and your sleeping quarters can be figured
into the delineation of the legal entity? Not bloody likely. But, it is
possible.
Bottom Line, the BATF has a package prepared for folks like Matt to
absorb...find your local/regional BATF agency and ask for the best way to
create a brewery...they will be happy to send you one.
All of the BATF Agents I have ever dealt with are more than happy to
help you. After all, they want to create more revenue from any legal entity.
And even when we deserved major prob's due to non-compliance, when I
was @ LABCO, V 1.0, the agents went out of their way to assist us in
re-building, and complying. They were great.
Their job is to ensure compliance with the reg's.
But for anyone that want's to sell homebrew on the web? Get a
lawyer...cover your ass.
And forget it....
Currently undergoing the sale of a 5 yo BP to a new owner, I can assure
you, the path is more complicated than you think.
Cheers!
Jethro Gump
Head Brewer
Court Avenue Brewing Company
Des Moines, Iowa
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 06:05:50 -0400
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj@rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: Barley Wine
Fellow Brewers,
I brewed my experiemental batch of barley wine yesterday. Everything
went well, and on the advice of several of you, I pitched a small starter of
Chico. By the time I left for work last night (about 8 hours later), it had
taken off quite rapidly. I plan on bottling this in champagne bottles with
corks and wire caps in a couple of months. The recipe includes Light DME, a
bit of 20L Crystal, and some clover honey. Questions, while I'm thinking
about them: What should I use to prime it when I bottle it? Dextrose? And
will I need to rack between fermenters more than once? I'm just fretting
over the time that the beer is going to spend in the fermenter. Thanks!
Jeff
PS: I encourage everyone here on HBD to click over and review the posts on
the Oz CBD. I spent a couple of hours reading through several threads. There
was a lot of on-topic stuff, but there was also a lot of sniping at other
posters, Americans, and "the egotistical members of the HBD." Interesting
reading.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 00:09:01 -1000
From: Alex Hazlett <arexu@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Idophor killed my carbonation....?
Sorry, Todd, you'll have to look farther afield. When bottling, I sink
my bottles in a bucket of iodophor before filling them, then just pull
them out, dump them out, and fill them up with beer. As long as you used
the proper proportions, it wasn't the iodophor that killed the yeasties.
Alex Hazlett
> Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 05:31:48 GMT
> From: Todd Bissell <bis9170@home.com>
> Subject: Idophor killed my carbonation....?
>
> Hi all,
>
> Well, after my first batch was so-so (typical first batch, I suppose),
> and my second a pretty good porter, my third batch went south on me at
> the home stretch: good taste, *_ZERO_* carbonation. Here's the
> play-by-play, in case anybody wants to know what NOT to do.
<play-by-play of bottling snipped>
> Question for the Board: am I correct in assuming that it was the Idophor
> that killed my little carbonation-producing yeasties, or is this a case
> of something more fundamentally wrong...? (f.y.i: My first two batches
> (the so-so Amber and the tasty porter) both had good-to-excellent
> carbonation)
>
> Cheers!
>
> Todd S. Bissell
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 06:41:35 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Selling Homebrew
On the question of selling your homebrew via the Internet (or any other way) -
Don't try it - you don't want the ATF people knocking on your door. In most
states you can make 100 gals per year, 200 gals per household, for your own
use only. Addtl restrictions vary from state to state. In most, you can give
it as gifts or take it to a competition. In some, taking it anywhere is a
no-no.
If you want to sell your beer, you will need a license (or multiple licenses)
that again vary from state to state. Rick Foote mentions the out of state
mail-order issue, and the alc % limitation issue in Georgia. Florida also
prohibits mail-order of alcohol. As I posted earlier, the Florida bottle bill
has just passed (still waiting for the governor's signature), removing the
package size limitation that has absurdly limited the choice of beer available
for sale in Fl. Hopefully, this situation will improve now.
But not necessarily, due to another restriction - the three tier system. This
system, mandated by Florida law (and also used in a number of other states),
requires that a beer manufacturer must sell to a distributor who must sell to
a retailer (bar, restaurant, package store, etc). It is only the retailer who
can sell to the public. The beer manf can't sell directly to the public, or to
the retailer, etc. So for our selection of beer in Fl to improve, there must
be distributors willing to carry new products, and retailers willing to make
it available to us. Looking at the limited selection (from among the brands
already available for sale) on most retailers' shelves, this is far from a
slam-dunk proposition. Our available choices will improve, but I suspect not
as widely as we'd like.
Brew-pubs that make beer and sell it to the public are an exception, and are
licensed differently. However, they can only sell on their own premises. Some
states require the beer to be consumed on premise, others also allow growlers
to be sold for take out. Florida doesn't permit growler sales (though now that
the bottle restrictions are being lifted, there's some talk of trying to pass
legislation allowing growlers). Florida law doesn't permit brew pubs to sell
in any other way - not even to use the beer produced at one brewpub/restaurant
to be sold at another location of the same restaurant owned by the same
owners.
This means that the micro-brewer must find a distributor willing to handle
their product. Usually, this entails contracts with exclusivity, etc. So the
brewer is dependant for marketing on the distributor. It may be difficult for
a small startup to find a good distributor willing to take on their beer. And
what happens if the distributor doesn't do a good job? There are some states
that do allow a beer manf to self-distribute. Last year, one of our club
members brought back some excellent beer from Rock Art, in Vermont. I was told
that the husband brews the beer, and the wife distributes kegs in a pickup
truck to various restaurants & bars. What a homebrewer's dream! But they still
need to deal with licensing, etc.
If you decide you want to sell your beer, you'll have to deal with your own
state regulations and licensing requirements - but it won't be homebrew at
that point. Alcohol is subject to an incredible number of laws; some
reasonable, some absurd. At least we don't have prohibition anymore, though
the neo-prohibitionists are a bit scary.
Bottom line is you can't sell homebrew at all; no way, no how.
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 07:01:46 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Idophor killed my carbonation....?
Todd writes about a Bitter that ended up flat, and asks, "am I correct in
assuming that it was the Iodophor
that killed my little carbonation-producing yeasties, or is this a case of
something more fundamentally wrong...?"
You mention that the concentration you used was the recommended one (12.5 to
25 ppm). If this is the case, I'd suspect some other problem. Since you were
using a bottle tree, most if not all of the solution would run out even if you
didn't allow time to fully air dry. What little bit might be left would be
diluted way further by the beer, so I doubt it would be strong enough to kill
all your yeast.
I'd suspect some other cause. If it were a high gravity style, the yeast might
be too stressed - though since yours is a bitter this is not likely. How long
had the batch been in the fermenter?
On another iodophor issue, Robert Arguello had an excellent piece on the web
about using iodophor and the issue of tasting the iodine in your beer (he
refutes this saying it won't be detectable). I recently went to look at this
again and the web link no longer works. Robert, is this article available at
any other web address?
thanks,
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 07:35:12 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: Glycogen level ?
I had asked a simple "A or B" question and received a lengthy
phillipic that did not answer the question. If you don't know the answer
that is fine, but save the bandwidth and say, "I don't know."
- ---------------
As for...
>> claim 'proof' for some general principle; for example that
fermenter geometry is a major factor in HB fermentation,<<
It was De Clerck that studied fermenter geometry and found that,
from 1liter to production size, geometry plays a significant role.
My own speculation on this is that; it is not so much the size or
depth, but the relative area exposed to atmosphere for oxygen
uptake during the critical lag/adaptation phase.
Working with a liter sized fermenter, the top surface area
between a 1:1 aspect and 2.5:1 aspect gives us 1.85:1.
That is a significant jump in oxygen exposure and I expect also
in oxygen utilization.
Of course this may not matter when pitching 100% living yeast,
with 40% glycogen and 10%sterol levels, at a cell count that is equal
to that particular strain's terminal density at high kraeusen. But if any
shortcomings are present in the pitching culture the added oxygen
exposure could be meaningful.
NPL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 08:31:27 -0400
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: queueFermentation Time?
D Craig Williams Ponders a slow yeast take off:
>I have just finished my third all-grain batch. I pitched the yeast >about
>36 hours ago and I don't see any sign of fermentation. Before >pitching, I
>activated dry ale yeast by wisking it in a cup of warm >water at about 105
>F and allowed to sit about 15 minutes. The O.G. of >the wort was about
>1.040.
.....
I would recommend adding either sugar, honey, or malt to the warm water to
activate yeast. They need something to eat. 105F is a touch warm and I
prefer 95F for my yeast if Im using dry yeast. But I have never had problems
with temp up to 110 for baking yeast, so I don't think the 105 killed your
yeast.
.....
>The fermenter is sitting in my crawlspace where the temperature
>ranges from about 68 during the day to about 60 at night.
.....
This seems like a wide fluctuation, but I would put a strip thermometer on
the fermenter and see what it shows. I suspect it won't fluctuate by half
that.. four degrees should not be a problem. and you are in mid range for
most Ale yeast. If you want an estery finish on the other hand, you might be
a little on the low side.
......
>I oxygenated the wort by shaking the carboy. The previous batch didn't
>start fermenting until almost 60 hours had passed. I want to know if
> >someone can tell me why fermentation isn't beginnning sooner. I was >told
>by the man at the homebrew supply store that fermentation usually >begins
>within 8 hours. Is this accurate?
.....
Since you are doing all grain, I presume you are doing full wort boils.
Hence you have no oxigen to speak of in your wort when it cools. (What was
your wort temp when you pitched?) You will need to oxygenate before
pitching. If you are going to shake the carboy, you might try doing it with
the fermenter only about half filled so that you get lots of arieation. You
might try making an areator (aspirator) to pull air into the wort as you
syphon it into the fermenter.
The air stone is another possibility, along with an aquarium pump, or O2
source.
Properly areated wort with a well prepaired yeast starter should indeed
start fermenting within 8 hours, however you may not actually see clear
evidense for up to 24 hours. 48 is getting long, and 60 is really leaving
your wort open to infection.
Good luck.
Steven
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:45:56 -0400
From: Darrell.Leavitt@esc.edu
Subject: <Draft> Declaration
An Un-unanimous Declaration Of Brewers of The Digest
<DRAFT>
When in the Course of fermenting events, it becomes necessary for one
brewer to dissolve the chemical bonds which have connected one dextrose
with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and
equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,
a decent respect for the opinions of other brewers requires that they
should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all dexrose are not created
equal, yet they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are appropriate Temperature, pH, and and being
pursuit by Alpha and/ or Beta Amylase Happiness. That to secure this
Enzymatic Happinesses, Brew Digests are instituted among Brewing Men and
Women, deriving their brewing prowess from the knowledge and consent of
their fellow brewers. That whenever any Form of Discussion becomes
destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the Brewers to alter or to
abolish it, and to institute a new Digest, laying its foundation on such
principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem
most likely to effect their Success and Happiness in Brewing Good Beer.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Digests long established should NOT be
changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath
shown, that brewers are more disposed to suffer, while evils are
sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forums to which they
are accustomed.
A hearty thanks to the Homebrew Digest Janitors, to the Sponsors, and to
the Brewers who keep this Forum a lively and Informative source for helping
all of us to Brew Better Beer!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 07:49:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: jal@novia.net
Subject: re: pyrex reaction
Steve Lanes asks:
>Just got an Erlingmeyer flask / beaker and boiled up my starter on the
>stove. Can I put the scalding hot beaker and wort into an ice bath or will
>this shatter the beaker?
>I wouldn't think to ask with any other type of glass vessel, but what about
>pyrex?
And I reply:
This is my standard procedure, boiling starter wort in an Erlenmeyer and
putting it in ice water to cool. No problem so far with flasks breaking (except
for the one I let boil dry and thrust into cold water, that was a bit much).
Jim Larsen
Omaha
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 12:57:00 -0000
From: "Sebastian Padilla" <sebastianpadilla@hotmail.com>
Subject: Help a German micro
Hello, I have a question that I was hoping some of you could give me some
feedback on. There are some off flavors being produced in some beers being
produced, but not all, at a house brewery in Germany that I am sporadically
helping until they find a proper German brewmaster (the old one unexpectedly
left). Unfortunately I did not bring any of my brewing books w/ me so I
leave myself in your capable hands.
General stats on the beers and brew process in case it helps. 15 hl (that's
100 liters to the metricly challenged) brewhouse. The yeast for the lagers
is from the Radeberger brewery (a very clean fermenting yeast, I don't know
if it is a diacytel producer). The beers are fermented at 10*C until the
primary fermentation is done and then chilled down to 2*C for the lagering
process. The beers are primarily lagers (pils, dunkel, bock, maerzen) as
well as a hefe-weizen.
Only one of the beers is filtered and that is the Pils. All of the beers
have exhibited this flavor, including the hefe-weizen, except for the
unfiltered pils (locally known as a zwickel). There is no difference in the
process between the pils and the zwickel up to the filtration point (takes
place after lagering). The beers tasted fine when they first go into the
serving tanks. But after some time, which has varied some from batch to
batch, they start to exhibit this off flavor, which gets stronger and
stronger. I have noticed this phenomenon since I first started visiting
this brewery in January. It may be psychological but I think that the
problem is getting worse.
The off flavor manifests itself as a sort of buttery or butterscotch flavor
to my taste. I associate this with diacytel but I am open to suggestions.
At first I thought that this flavor was being produced by the lack of the
diacytel rest. But it can get so strong and often does not exhibit itself
until weeks after being put in the serving tanks.
To me it sounds like a classic bacteria/ wild yeast infection, which are
producing diacytel as a by product. What do you all think is the most
likely culprit? What happens during a diacytel rest, do the yeast scavenge
diacytel or is it only a precursor at this point so that the diacytel does
not manifest itself until later in the process?
A company supposedly comes in and cleans the beerlines once every 2 weeks.
The owner really does not want to hear that he has a wild beastie problem,
so I especially want to check before I make him believe it or at least have
the VLB lab do an analysis.
Sebastian
life is grand when every weekend in Belgium is feasible.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 07:59:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: jal@novia.net
Subject: re; broken carbonator
Will Fileds posts:
>I was installing my Liquid Bread "Carbonator" cap on a pet bottle recently
>and the top separated from the base. Has this happened to anyone and is it
>repairable? Is there any chance that some Krazy glue can save the day?
And I reply:
I had a Carbonator chip on me. I wrote the nice folks at Liquid Bread, who said
send it back, and they'd replace it with two. I did, and they did, and I'm very
happy. This was four or five years ago. Their policy may have changed, but I
recommend giving it a try.
Jim Larsen
Omaha
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:03:36 -0400
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins@drain-all.com>
Subject: Re: All Grain Brewing
Joe Aker writes:
>I have been extract brewing for approx. 1 1/2 years and have become very
>bored with it (lack of flavor profile control). I would like to start all
>grain brewing, and have heard various people talk about their all grain set
>ups. I would appreciate any advice on what would be the easiest, not to
>mention cost efficient,set up to do all grain 5 gal. batches. I currently
>have a 4 gallon pot which I am aware will not be sufficient for a full wort
>boil. I have done a few extract batches be steeping specialty grains, but
>have never done a partial, or full mash. I have read everything I can get
>on all grain brewing, and I know that I can get excellent results the first
>batch, with the right equipment. I was thinking of using two 5 gallon
>coolers with the false bottom, and the sparge arm to sparge. Does anyone
>have any experience in boiling a large amount of wort on a stove? Will
this
>work? (or is it too time consuming?) I currently do not have a chiller
>either, and was considering an immersion chiller for ease of use? I was
>considering using the single infusion mash procedure until I can get a few
>batches under my belt. Any suggestions on the best places to buy
equipment,
>or any particular setup options would be greatly appreciated.
>Thanks,Joe Aker
>Topeka, Kansas
Well Joe, its like this. Have you ever heard the expression that a boat is
a large hole in the water into which you pour money? Well, all grain
equipment can be just like that. It never starts that way, but after a few
batches, you get this great idea, and all you will need is just this one
more thing, and it only costs $$ etc, etc. My best advice is to find
someone in Topeka who already brews all grain and go hang out at their house
on brew day (any homebrew clubs around? That's a great place to start).
You will see the entire process from start to finish and get some ideas on
what you want and don't want to do. You also get to ask a lot of questions
and let's face it, homebrewers love to talk about their equipment. I have
yet to brew my first all grain batch but I learned a TON from watching a
friend of mine from the local homebrew club brew all grain at his house. In
fact, I did it several times. I haven't quite finished pouring money into
the bottomless brew pot to finish all my equipment yet, but I sort of went
off the deep end and wanted to do something really cool with RIMS. I'm on
schedule to brew by the end of May. This undertaking would have been a
complete disaster without the help of those that brewed all grain before me.
Go forth to the homes of the all grain brewers with the attitude of a sponge
and good luck!
Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:13:36 -0400
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk@hotmail.com>
Subject: Sticky Name Tags on Zymurgy
Ant asked about removing address labels from magazines:
Ant, I share your compulsion to remove the offending labels and I appreciate
the methods used by some magazines to avoid a sticky mess (labels designed
to be removed, paper or plastic sleeves, etc.) For those that resist a
simple peel-back, I have had some success using an iron as a heat source and
utilizing an intermediate piece of paper between the magazine cover and the
iron to avoid damage. Usually, the label will come off with a minimum of
residue. Good luck.
Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:14:37 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Idophor killed my carbonation....?
Todd Bissell <bis9170@home.com> prepared to bottle and:
>proceeded to inject each
>bottle with what was advertised to be the correct concentration of
>sanitizing solution.
He wonders if this is why he got no carbonation.
You're saying you didn't drain the bottles? Then I think you've hit
the nail on the head. Unless you have really nasty water, you can
safely rinse your sanitized bottles with tap water. And, of course,
if you follow Mark Tumarkin's advice and always rinse your bottles as
you empty them (I do it two or three times with hot water), you won't
have to do much cleaning before sanitizing.
I can't think of any way of salvaging this beer with natural
carbonation. Anything that would get rid of the iodine would oxidize
the beer. I'm surprised you didn't get a nasty iodine flavor, but
people have reported that it doesn't have that much flavor. I think
Phil Wilcox has tried putting a teaspoon in a glass of beer with no
reported off flavor. That would explain a lot of Phil's taste, of
course. ;-)
Jeff
- --
***Please note new address*** (old one will still work)
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:27:01 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH@theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Carbonation, newby all grain advice
Todd Bissell wonders whether not rinsing idophor out of his bottles
could have killed the yeast in his beer and led to non-carbonated beer.
If you used the recommended concentration of idophor (which you say you
did) you should not need to rinse. Maybe you didn't let the bottles
drip dry on the tree long enough, but it shouldn't be necessary to leave
them for more than a few minutes. Idophor is useful because it does not
need to be rinsed. I recently switched to it from bleach for this
reason and have not had any carbonation problems. My guess is that it
is a yeast problem but from your description I wouldn't think it was
from idophor. I would suggest adding a small amount of new dry yeast to
your bottles, recapping, and see if they carbonate.
- -----
Joe Aker asks about equipment for switching to all grain. I switched to
all grain a little over a year ago, directly from extract. I personally
don't see any reason to do partial mashes. I use the two bucket, false
bottom, sparge arm set up and feel it works excellently. Don't let all
the people with fancy RIMS set ups fool you, it is possible to make
great beer with a cheap set-up. You don't even need a counter flow wort
chiller. My immersion chiller cools 5 gallons of wort from boiling to
75F in only about 10 minutes.
I regularly get 80-90% mash efficiency doing single infusion mashes with
my system. I boil on my stove with a 7 gallon SS pot. I have a gas
stove and the pot sits across two burners. It works fast enough. I
start the burners with the first run off and increase it to full as soon
as there's about 1/2 a gallon in the pot. By the time I have my full
volume it only takes a few more minutes to start boiling.
All grain can seem a little overwhelming at first but after the first
batch you'll see how easy, and fun it really is.
Guess I'm in a writing mood today,
Doug Hurst
Chicago IL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:29:49 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman@unisys.com>
Subject: Re: Whirlfloc
Is Whirlfloc available to the homebrew market? My HB shop didn't carry this
and they have since closed, so a mail order reference would be appreciated.
I also have a pickup under a screen/false bottom, use a
counter-flow-chiller, Irish moss and mostly hop pellets. Today I get just a
few fines at the beginning of knock-out. Will Whirlfloc wort more
effectively in this environment?
Dave Houseman
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:52:32 -0500
From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Whirlfloc & whole hops
Paul asked if anyone used whole hops as a 'filter' to hold back break
material....You bet I do! My kettle drains from the bottom under a screen,
so I only loose the amount of wort that is below the pickup (about a cup or
so) and what is retained in the hops themselves. I estimate it amounts to
loss of less than a quart, and it leaves a nice layer of trub on top of the
hops. It is best to start draining the kettle slowly so as to let the fine
materials get caught on something and it builds up a filter bed. The
resulting wort is pretty clear, and even more so since I started using
Whirlfloc. After the wort is in the fermentor, a great cold break forms in
the fermentor, but it does settle out and leaves very clear beer. (no
problem reading through the light colored beers) I have not needed to get
more Whirlfloc yet as I got a 1# sample free at the 1998 National Brewpub
conference in Chicago (lots of fun, if you like education and business).
Now since I got it for free, does anyone have a local outlet for the stuff?
as I will run out eventually.
Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:33:40 -0700
From: Brad Miller <millerb@targen.com>
Subject: Pyrex
Steve Lane writes.
Just got an Erlingmeyer flask / beaker and boiled up my starter on the
stove. Can I put the scalding hot beaker and wort into an ice bath or will
this shatter the beaker?
I wouldn't think to ask with any other type of glass vessel, but what about
pyrex?
When I make gels in the lab I usually take the pyrex
erlenmeyer and run it under cold water to gel the gel temp down
quicker so I can pour it. I've never had one break yet but then
again there not mine so I don't really care if they do. I would
think that you would be fine with a starter.
Brad
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:13:44 -0400
From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc@finerty.net>
Subject: Re: Corn Tortillas
hi,
i would suggest not using corn tortillas for beer. they definitely
have all of the oil from the corn (the germ, i think) and these oils
will give you major stability problems.
blame Jeff Renner for imparting some of this knowledge to me this past
weekend. Jeff, it was great to meet you and hear all about your CAP.
patrick in Toronto
On Tuesday 8 May, 2001, Drew Beechum wrote:
>
> Well after a Quattro di Mayo celebration and BBQ I find myself in the
> possession of approximately 5 lbs of corn tortillas.
>
> Now of course this begs the question.. what's the specific gravity of
> a corn tortilla? I'd be interested into turning it into a corn ale,
> ala a chica ale.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:47:17 -0400
From: "Frank J. Russo" <fjrusso@coastalnet.com>
Subject: re: twist top bottles
I am an avid user and re-user of 22 oz twist top bottles. I may have had 1
bottle in 60 that might not seal, but that is about all. Broken bottle
threats, do to my tightening has not been a problem I have experienced in
the past 3 years. Cleaning and sanitizing also presents no problem as long
as you do it. I do inspect my twist tops before using to make sure they are
in good shape. No dents, holes and probably most important corrosion.
Excessive white powdery dust on the threats is reason for me to trash the
cap. Just my $.02 worth from a reuser. But between you and me, I am
planning to go to kegging, just to reduce my labor and storage of bottles.
Frank Russo
ATF Home Brew Club
New Bern, NC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:05:59 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: My Vienna
Graham Sanders <craftbrewer@telstra.easymail.com.au>, figuring that
now that the Survivor 2 crowd has left his beloved North Queenland,
it's safe to pop his head up again, writes
>And speaking of yeasts, I have given my opinion of the famed
>Ayinger yeast in the past. (For those who dont remember, bloody
>good attentuator and well suited for the paler styles of beers like
>German Pilsners and Octoberfests.) Now I have always had my
>doubts on whether its suited to darker malter styles, so in true
>craftbrewers style I gave it a shot in a Vienna.
>/
>And the result is quite simply its not balanced properly. Far too
>dry, bringing out too much the melonoids and caramel flavours.
>Its still a nice drop, with a real interesting profile, but not a Vienna.
>I mashed this baby at 66C. I would definitely suggest to those
>using this yeast of darker styles of beers to consider a high mash
>temperature to achieve the right balance.
My experience differs from this, and it may be a matter of recipe or
it may be a matter of taste. Two plus years ago I brewed a Vienna.
For a 30 liter batch I used
10 lbs. Durst Vienna (4.5 kg)
2 lbs. Durst Pils (900 g) (I didn't have 12 lbs. of Vienna)
1 lb. Briess Carapils (450 g)
This latter is a very low color (1.4L) sort of uncaramelized crystal
malt which is a body and foam builder
(http://www.briess.com/Products/carapils.htm). I've used other
caramel pils malts but they have been darker.
Now, of course, this malt bill has no roast grains and no roast
flavors, only spicy, malty ones from the Vienna.
I mashed in at 145F/63C, then burner boosted to 149F/65C (my target),
but overshot and hit 153F/67C. After 1/2 hour it had dropped to
149F/65C again. In other words, I was all over on this, but it was
in the ball park (cricket pitch?). Then I boosted to 158F/70C for a
half hour, then mashed out and lautered. Hopped fairly low - 19 IBU
with very little Hallertauer Hersbrucker finish hops.
I got OG 1.048 and it finished surprisingly low at 1.012 after a good
fermentation with repitched Ayinger at 48F/9C and 6 weeks lagering at
32F/0C.
At first I thought it was too dry and a little too bitter, but after
lagering the bitterness settled into form and it was excellent. I
actually find too many Viennas are too sweet. This one was very
drinkable and balanced. It wasn't sweet but it was rich with good
malt. George Fix, author of the Vienna volume in the Style Series
tasted it at the first MCAB conference and said nice things about it.
This past October I made a Munich Dunkel with a bit of debittered
chocolate and dark Munich and Pils and again got a well attenuated
beer that seemed to me to be entirely balanced and pleasing. Not
sweet, but rich.
Jeff
- --
***Please note new address*** (old one will still work)
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@mediaone.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:49:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Johnson <Morbius2257@webtv.net>
Subject: apple cider
I've never brewed anything befor but now I'm very interested in
cider, could you help me with any info on it . Like the differance
between brewing beer and cider or what are the law's or regulations .
If I deside to sell it well they let me brew it like they did back in
the 14 or 15 hundreds. any help well recieve much thanks...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 14:21:46 -0700
From: Patrick and Jennifer Fimbres <fimbres@ultrasw.com>
Subject: Re:calculating S.G. in split batch
Last week Jason Foster asked about for Ball park figures for
calculating Parti-Gyle batches. Well I do this regularly and have a
very easy rule of thumb. The first third will have the same gravity
as the last two thirds. For example, I made a 15 gal batch. The first
5 gal is an Imperial stout with an O.G. of 1.090 and the last 10 gal
is a Dry Stout with O.G. 1.045. So if your 2.5 gal of Barley Wine is
1.125 the next 5 gal will have the same amount of sugar but twice the
volume so divide by two, 1.062. Of course, YMMV, depending on your
sparging practices, boiling set-up, etc. Nevertheless this should get
you in the ball park and you can fine tune with lots of practice ( a
good excuse to brew lots of Barley Wines). With certain styles (like
barley wine and bitter for example) you can bump the gravity with
sugar to bring it in to line.
Have fun with parti-gyle.
Cheers.
- --
Patrick Fimbres
Tucson AZ
"Beer, if drank with moderation, softens the temper, cheers the
spirit and promotes health." -- Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 19:52:00 -0400
From: "Paul Kensler" <paul.kensler@attglobal.net>
Subject: FW: MCAB 1st Place Bitter
>As has been done in the past, would the winners of the MCAB 3 be willing to
>post their recipe's to the digest?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Pat Humphrey
>Lake Villa, IL
I think it's a great idea too. Here's my Ordinary Bitter, which won first
place (I'm as happy as a little girl). I've pasted most of this out of
ProMash (great software by the way! NAYYY), and supplemented from my own
notes where needed.
ProMash Brewing Session Printout
- --------------------------------
Brewing Date: Sunday March 25, 2001
Head Brewer: Paul Kensler
Recipe: My Cat's Ass Bitter
ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Printout
- -------------------------------------------------
Recipe Specifics
- ----------------
Batch Size (GAL): 6.00
Total Grain (LBS): 9.28
Anticipated OG: 1.041
Anticipated SRM: 8.3
Anticipated IBU: 38.2
System Efficiency: 70
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Actual OG: 1.038 Plato: 9.48
Actual FG: 1.012 Plato: 3.07
Alcohol, Actual: 2.66 By Weight 3.39 By Volume - Measured Actuals.
Actual Mash System Efficiency: 70
Anticipated Points From Mash: 40.82
Actual Points From Mash: 41.04
Pre-Boil Amounts
- ----------------
Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Raw Pre-Boil Amounts - only targeted volume/gravity and evaporation
rate taken into account:
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 7.74 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.032 SG
Formulas Used
- -------------
Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager
Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10
Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Gravity
SRM
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
91.6 8.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038
3
5.4 0.50 lbs. Carastan Malt Great Britain 1.035
34
2.7 0.25 lbs. Crystal 60L America 1.034
60
0.3 0.03 lbs. Black Patent Malt America 1.028
525
Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil
Time
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
1.25 oz. Challenger Pellet 6.34 32.5 60 min.
0.50 oz. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 3.63 3.8 30 min.
0.50 oz. Fuggle Pellet 3.37 1.8 15 min.
Extras
Amount Name Type Time
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 tsp Irish Moss (rehydrated) Fining 15 Min.(boil)
Yeast
- -----
White Labs WLP023 - Burton Ale yeast. Fresh vial, pitched into 3g. wort
(the other 3g. was fermented with WLP05, but I liked the way the WLP023
turned out better)
Wort was aerated using aeration splash-tip on siphon hose from kettle, and
again in fermenter using aeration stone and aquarium pump.
Water Profile
- -------------
Used half tap, half RO water and adjusted with various salts to emulate
Burton water.
Doughed in with 7 qts. water, to mash temp 100F. Infused with 2.75 gallons
boiling water to 152F. Let mash rest for an hour and began runoff. Sparged
with 170F water until roughly 8 gallons were collected.
Fermented in glass for 8 days at 68F. Primed and bottled.
Pretty simple, dare I say "ordinary".
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 19:25:48 -0500
From: "elvira toews" <etoews1@home.com>
Subject: Joe's first all-grain
IMHO, you (Joe) should avoid dumping piles of cash into brewing equipment at
first. There's a lot to learn first about your water, your grain and hop
sources, your tolerance for the longer brew day, etc. After 5-10 batches
you will know exactly what you really want to make.
My suggestion is to stick with the 3.5 gallon boil for now, but rig up the
minimal cost lauter system with 5-7 gallons capacity to leave room for
expansion. Have 2-4 lbs of pale malt extract (powder or syrup) handy for
fixing your gravity.
Make a generous recipe - 8-10 lbs grain is about right. Do an infusion mash
in your boiler, using blankets for insulation. Transfer to your lauter tun,
run off 3.5 gallons, stir the wort well, measure the SG. Calculate your
yield in "points" as SGx3.5 gallons. Calculate your target points as OGx5
(i.e. if your target is 1.045, it's 45x5 points). The difference is made up
at 36 points per pound syrup or 45 points per pound DME. Add 20% more hops
than the recipe calls for to compensate for the high gravity boil, or
substitute pellets in a recipe based on whole hops.
I strongly recommend an immersion chiller. 50 ft. of 3/8" copper is not too
much, and you can build it such that the cooling wort can be mostly covered.
You can build a counterflow if you start making 10 gallon batches later on.
After pouring the chilled wort into the fermenter, boil up 2 gallons of
water for 15 minutes to sterilize it, then chill it with your chiller, and
top up the fermenter, or you can do this the day before and store the water
in a spare fermenter (a good idea, because you can aerate it before adding
it to the wort, and water holds more oxygen than wort).
There are a zillion designs for lauter tuns. Surf the web and look at
anything that doesn't appear expensive. A neighbour made my grain bag six
years ago and I still can't justify replacing it.
Happy brewing (and gadgeteering!)
Sean Richens
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3629, 05/10/01
*************************************
-------
