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HOMEBREW Digest #3587
HOMEBREW Digest #3587 Thu 22 March 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Florida Bottle Laws and the Florida Brewers List ("Mark Tumarkin")
Checking in - again (Beaverplt)
Amsterdam; what/ where to drink, (Smallaxe27)
Don't do this: (darrell.leavitt)
Wort Porridge (Smallaxe27)
CO2 purging (Joe Yoder)
RE: Calibrating thermometers ("Van Hove John Maj CADRE\\WGN")
anyone else this unlucky? ("Benjy Edwards")
RE: PVC braided tubing (Don Price)
phil & jill's party ("Wilf Phoenix")
plastic flavor ("Marc Hawley")
New Refrigerator Question ("Ian Forbes")
Chiller Wars - Thermodynamics skirmish ("Bob")
RE: keg purging with CO2 (Bob Sheck)
Brew questions (David Brandt)
Re:Frig vs GFI--Bob Sutton ("J. KISH")
re: ss welding (Chris)
Oaken Barrels. (Dennis)
RE: ss welding and Could it be a flamethrower? ("Steven Parfitt")
Dave Burley (" Jim Bermingham")
Florida Bottle Bill & Fl Brewers List ("Mark Tumarkin")
RE: Subject: ss welding (LaBorde, Ronald)
RE: My idea of a homebrewed chiller (LaBorde, Ronald)
Re: Could it be a flamethrower? (Peter Torgrimson)
The Cajun Jacketed Fermented (The Man From Plaid)
flattery, mail-order, Gambrinus ESB ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
Re: Jolly Ranchers (Brewboy1)
Simple Chiller?? ("Tom Williams")
GCHC 2001 - Toronto will be Centre of Homebrew Universe! ("Darryl Newbury")
Local vs Mail Order ... and Big City Homebrew Clubs ("Darryl Newbury")
RE: Brewing with Rye ("Steven Parfitt")
Beer & flatulence (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Douglas.Moyer@indsys.ge.com>
Dwarf Hops ("Doug Hurst")
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:07:23 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Florida Bottle Laws and the Florida Brewers List
As you may already know, Florida has some very restrictive bottle laws. These
laws limit the size containers in which beer can be sold to 8, 12, 16, and 32
oz. Thus, we don't have the opportunity to buy many imports in metric sizes or
the 22oz bombers used by many domestic microbreweries. There have been several
attempts to change the law in the past, last year we almost succeeded but the
attempt was shot down at the last minute.
There have been changes in the leadership of the legislature, and we have a
better chance of succeeding this year. The bill in the Senate, SB202, is doing
very well. It has passed most of the important committees and will be going to
the Senate floor soon. It's companion bill in the House, HB 187, is a
different matter. It contains the needed language to remove the bottle size
restrictions, but unfortunately it has some other provisions that limit the
alcohol content in bottles larger than 16oz to 3.2%. and puts some inane
labeling requirements on foreign brewers who wish to sell in Florida. These
provisions are clearly unacceptable. However, it has been determined that the
best strategy is to ammend the bill in committee. Thus removing these
additions while leaving the language removing the bottle size restrictions.
Hopefully, this will be successful and both bills will pass.
In order to pass these bills, the brewing community in Florida needs to write
and call as many of our legislators as we can. We need to let them know how we
feel and ask them to vote for SB202 and HB187. In order to coordinate this
effort, and to get information out to as many Florida brewers as quickly as
possible; we have set up the Florida Brewers List, an email list on the Home
Brew Digest server. You can sign on to the list by sending an email to the
address florida-request@hbd.org with the word subscribe as the message. You
don't need anything in the subject field. You will recieve back an
authentication message. Respond to this message according to the directions in
the message and you will be subscribed to the list and will recieve all
subsequent posts to the list. You can send postings to florida@hbd.org.
We would like to get as many interested Florida brewers (both homebrewers and
professionals) signed onto the list as quickly as possible. Once the bills
reach the floor of the Senate and House for voting, this will be a very
important time for us to get information out as quickly as possible to help
mobilize the necessary call-in and write-in campaigns to the legislators. So
please get this information out to any Florida brewers (or beer lovers) on
your email lists. We need all the help we can get to make sure the legislation
passes this time. This may be our last and best hope.
Thank you,
Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, Fl
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:22:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Checking in - again
Hi again,
Thanks to all that weighed in on some of my questions.
I'm glad to hear so many stories of sharing. It sort
of reinforces the truth that homebrewers are not
drunks. (Remember that thread?)
Thanks to everybody's input I'm considering trying to
reuse the yeast from my next batch. Regarding yeast,
my experience and one of the things I read in the HBD
seem contrary. I've read often about buiding up a
starter even for a 5 gallon batch. I've never done
that. I've pitched either a smack pack or prepared dry
yeast per the package and pitched that directly into
the carboy. I've never had a problem with
fermentation. And I've never used more than one
package to get the batch going. With few exceptions,
my beers have always been full flavored and I get the
readings I'm supposed to on my SG tests. Am I just
lucky?
I'm sure there is plenty of info in the archives on
how to reuse yeast so I won't waste anybody's time
with "how to" questions.
CIPing my Zwickel. No wonder I need glasses now.
Seriously, what does CIP mean?
I think a list of pubs for travelers would be
redundant considering how many people responded about
Pubcrawler.
I'm really torn now about my next beer. I've been
wanting to do a Nut Brown ale, but after reading so
much about CAP beers I'm intrigued. Maybe both.
Graham. I'm sorry you've decided to play in your own
sandbox without all your Yank friends. Keep the sand
out of your shorts, it plays hell on your zwickel.
=====
Jerry "Beaver" Pelt
That's my story and I'm sticking to it
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:47:49 EST
From: Smallaxe27@aol.com
Subject: Amsterdam; what/ where to drink,
Greetings all,
I thought I'd ask the collective if anyone has any
suggestions on beers and beer destinations
not-to-be-missed in Amsterdam. I'm happy to say I'll
be there for a few days at the end of the month.
As time and funds are not unlimited, I was need to
make the most of my time and guilder.
We're already considering a daytrip to Cologne
as my buddy wants to visit the folks' hometown,
and I want to visit with Kolsch.
Sadly, we won't be there long enough for an excursion
through Belgium.
Thanks in advance,
Steve G.
Philadelphia, No idea Rennerian
Smallaxe Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:15:34 -0500 (EST)
From: darrell.leavitt@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Don't do this:
ok, I am embarrased to report this .....but I feel compelled to do so,
given its importance (if correct):
Two times I have found hairline cracks on the bottom of my glass carboys
in the last 2 months. The first time the carboy was filled with
water and chlorine...so I didn't lose the batch. The second time (just
a few minutes ago) there was a small leak....I siphoned into the secondary,
and saved the batch...no glass fragments...no breakage...just a nasty
crack on the bottom edge.
Now I am not entirely certain, but am usually very careful to place
them down gently when I move them...and I THINK that this MAY be ther
//the//
result of over-enthusiastic rousing of the yeasties at the end or near
the end of the primary. I often will swirl the carboy....sometimes
violently...and I think that this may be the error in my ways.
So...please don't do as I do....rouse the yeast, but....do it gently!
I know that this sounds very odd....but cannot think of any other way
that they could get cracked.......
Embarassed.....
Feeling dumb.......
...Darrell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:16:56 EST
From: Smallaxe27@aol.com
Subject: Wort Porridge
I'm wondering if I've screwed up somehow.
My brewing buddy was using a recipe that called
for, among other things, 1 lb. of flaked oats
to be boiled for the full 60 min.
I didn't have my reference materials handy,
and I haven't made an Oatmeal Stout in several
years, but undaunted by ready knowledge
I suggested that he simply steep @ 155 F for
30 min. with the rest of the specialty grains.
He trusted me.
He did so.
After cooling, we started to rack and found the wort
to be REALLY thick. OG (of what was rackable)
was about 1.050, nothing exceptional.
Between the spooge from the post-boil cooled wort,
and what was left when we racked to secondary,
there was at least 1 gallon of too-thick-to-rack sludge
out of an original volume of 5 gallons.
The SG when we racked was around 1.012
and tasted fine.
So what's the concensus, did I give him bad advise
and screw up his batch?
Sheepishly,
Steve G.
Smallaxe Brewery Philadelphia
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:36:43 -0600
From: Joe Yoder <headduck@swbell.net>
Subject: CO2 purging
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:43:12 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak@siigroup.com>
Subject: keg purging with CO2
If anybody purges their corny kegs after filling them with beer to get
ride
of some to all of the air in the headspace after closing them up here
are
some numbers to help you out.
Pete wrote:
I assume using CO2 at 10 psi since that is about the pressure that I
normally have available in my manifold unless I disconnect all the other
kegs first. Also assumed in no solubility of oxygen in beer.
1 purge takes you to 75% of original oxygen level.
2 purges takes you to 50% of original O2.
3 takes you to 25% ......
5 takes you to 10% ........
6 takes you to 4% .......
9 takes you to 1% .......
14 takes you to 0.1% ......
I reply:
I have never understood why people purge with CO2 when simply
transferring the sanitizing liquid out of the keg using CO2 will
completely fill the keg with CO2. Simply fill the keg with iodophor
solution (2.5ppm) and push it out into the next keg or vessel that you
have to sanitize by pushing CO2 into the inlet of the keg. This way you
have 100 percent CO2 in the keg and you can rack into it with no worry
of oxygenation. 9 or 14 purges with CO2 sounds like a PITA to me.
just my 2 cents.
Joe Yoder
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:43:18 -0000
From: "Van Hove John Maj CADRE\\WGN" <John.VanHove@maxwell.af.mil>
Subject: RE: Calibrating thermometers
On 7 March, John Adsit talked about the calibration, or lack thereof, of his
brewing thermometer.
I'm way behind in my HBD reading, but after reading John's post, I wanted to
share a story about my own experience with thermometer calibration problems
last Summer.
I'll put the punch-line right up front. A friend was using one of those bi-
metal thermometers with a dial face and a 12-inch probe. He must have
cleaned
it too vigorously and blown the calibration all out of whack because it was
reading normal+40.
He was new to all-grain brewing and asked me to come over and see if I could
help him out. His first batch had given him all kinds of problems, the two
biggest of which were an impossibly stuck sparge and an extremely high
terminal gravity.
Maybe some of you gray-beards in the audience could diagnose the problem
immediately, but I didn't know what his problem was and wanted to see his
procedures first-hand. I had seen his Gott cooler with copper manifold
setup
before and couldn't understand why he was having such awful problems with
his
sparge.
I got to his house on a Sunday afternoon and he had already started his mash
and was just about ready to sparge. He had the water and grain for a
Guinness-clone stout in an insulated 10-gallon SS brewpot and was applying
direct heat to maintain a mash temperature of about 156 F.
I normally do infusion mashing, not direct heat, so I couldn't be sure, but
the bubbling black tar in his pot looked nothing like any mash I had ever
seen. It smelled good, but had the consistency of road tar (only a slight
exaggeration).
He dumped it into his Gott cooler setup and opened the valve to re-circulate
a
bit and didn't get a pint before he got a stuck sparge. I was at a loss.
There was nothing wrong with his copper manifold. It should work. The only
thing it could be was the tar-like consistency of his mash.
He told me the quantity of grain and the volume of water and the temperature
of his rest. It all sounded OK, but I'd never seen a mash that looked
anything like the gunk in his cooler.
I mentioned that raising the mash temperature for a mash out is supposed to
reduce the viscosity of the mash and make sparging easier so he dumped the
gunk back into his pot and raised the temperature to 170 F for 15 minutes.
After this the tar went back into his Gott with the same results.
Well, it was a hot Summer day in Montgomery Alabama so we sat back to drink
a
homebrew and scratch our heads some more. I commented that I had a hard
time
chilling my own brew the day before because it was over 100 degrees in my
garage. I grabbed his brew thermometer to check the current temperature on
his back porch and saw that it was a brisk 50 degrees.
At that point the light bulb finally went on over my head. He had been
mashing at ~196 F and did a mash out at damn near boiling. The brew was
lost, but we learned the importance of an equipment check at the start of
the
brew day.
I'm still looking for a good brew thermometer at an affordable price, but I
always give the one I have a good sanity check before I brew. When it's 50
F
on a summer afternoon in Alabama, you know something is not right!
VH
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:58:08 -0500
From: "Benjy Edwards" <rdbedwards@hotmail.com>
Subject: anyone else this unlucky?
Ok, so maybe I wasn't unlucky, just stupid.
After drilling two holes in my GE chest freezer 8 months ago to install a
cask breather, yesterday I tried drilling 4 holes to install a co2
distribution manifold, and . . . you know the rest. I hit a coolant line
and my sobs of pain were drowned out by the endless hissing noise of all of
the R134a leaking out.
Has anyone else been through this? Right now I'm trying to ascertain from
GE and repair guys whether it's worth repairing or if I'm better off junking
it and buying a new one. Sadly, the freezer is only 1 year old, but I've
been told that fixing the new sealed units isn't worth it. What's the
opinion of the group on whether to repair/replace? If I should replace it,
does anyone have any ingenious homebrewing applications for a non-functional
chest freezer?
Any input appreciated,
Benjy
rdbedwards@hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:47:35 -0500
From: Don Price <dprice1@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: RE: PVC braided tubing
Try www.mcmaster.com or www.coleparmer.com for a wide selection of
tubing including "food grade" types. Home Depot tubing may stock some
"food grade" tubing....check to see how it is marked. Your local
brewshop may be able to help.
No clue on getting rid of the taste other than rinse, rinse, and rinse
some more. I use PVC food grade suction hose (rated for full vacuum) at
work though I've never tried to drink from it.
Don
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:16:23 -0000
From: "Wilf Phoenix" <wilf.phoenix@btinternet.com>
Subject: phil & jill's party
SO! All the boring parents wanted the HOMEBREW... Can't blame 'em can we..
Phil should offer a course to the parent and teachers - Could really weld
that school together Phil! ...Keep on with the good stuff.. - -
Cheers - Wilf Phoenix
MANCHESTER UK
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:23:35 -0600
From: "Marc Hawley" <Marc_Hawley@email.msn.com>
Subject: plastic flavor
I had a similar experience with polypropylene tanks. I bought some nice
Nalgene tanks for mashing and boiling. The first batch went down the drain
because of an awful overpowering plastic flavor. I contacted Nalgene. They
sent me the standard "protocol" for removing the flavor. You are supposed to
autoclave the tanks in water at 250 degrees. Well, I just didn't happen to
have a four foot tall autoclave handy, so I skipped to plan B. Soak
overnight in hot water with detergent. I did this several times with very
hot water and Dawn dishwashing detergent. Then rinsed and soaked several
nights with plain water to get rid of the detergent and its fragrances. This
worked. No more plastic flavor.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:00:24 -0500
From: "Ian Forbes" <ian.forbes@snet.net>
Subject: New Refrigerator Question
Hail to the Fridgeguy! Long live the Fridgeguy!
Mr. Duddles,
I have a refrigerator in the cellar that belonged to the PO. It has been down
there for 5 years and run maybe 3 or 4 times. In anticipation of purchasing
some kegging equipment, I fired'r up yesterday to make sure everything was
a-ok...and now I'm posting questions to the HBD.
The freezer seems to work great (well below 32F) but the refrigerator is only
getting down to around 50F at its coldest setting.
1. Any ideas on what might be causing this and how to fix it?
2. If I can't fix it, are there any freon lines between the freezer (top) and
refrigerator (bottom) compartments? If not I could open up the top and bottom
so that the cold air from the freezer does the cooling...no?
Thanks for the help,
Ian in Hamden, CT
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:40:27 -0800
From: "Bob" <bsmntbrewr@home.com>
Subject: Chiller Wars - Thermodynamics skirmish
"Tom Williams" <williams2353@hotmail.com> wrote in his post-
Subject: Chiller Wars - Thermodynamics skirmish
<snip>
For cooling wort, I don't believe the cost of the cooling
medium flow is an
issue. Pump as much through your cooler as you can, and I
challenge you to
detect the incremental cost of the higher flow.
</snip
Oh, but Tom, efficiency of cooling medium flow is an issue
for some brewers. Although it is probably a minority, some
brewers may find their supply of H2O limited due to their
wells. I know of one such brewer in our community who
suffers from this affliction. I wouldn't be surprised to
see him posting on this subject.
Another issue that has been common recently in many
communities is water restrictions imposed by local
authorities during droughts. One of our local
municipalities had such restrictions in effect a summer or
two ago. Many of our club members were forced to seek
conserving measures for cooling.
Me, I'm fortunate enough to reside across the city line
where our county planned ahead and we were not restricted in
such a fashion. I can't defy your challenge though, I
agree, the cost under normal conditions is not noticeable on
my water bill.
Brew On!
Bob Bratcher
Roanoke, VA
Star City Brewers Guild
http://hbd.org/starcity
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:26:19 -0500
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck@skantech.net>
Subject: RE: keg purging with CO2
I fill my kegs with Iodophor, sanitize for an hour, then use
CO2 to push out the sanitizer. Then I invert for awhile
(generally the day before I fill). Crack the hatch and let
the few drops that have drained down trickle out, reseal,
and fill with beer through the OUT connection.
Works for me.
Bob Sheck / DEA / Greenville, NC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:42:09 -0800
From: David Brandt <jdlcr@flash.netdex.com>
Subject: Brew questions
I've got a few questions for the mashing minions out there.
1. I usually direct pitch my yeast but lately I've been making starters.
Since trub and krausen krud aren't considered virtues in a fermenter-is the
flavor affected when I pitch everything that's in my starter flask?
2. Some brews taste great early on, while with others aging greatly improves
the flavor. Is there a guideline for aging by variety -other than let the
darks or high alcohols age longer?
3. Anyone got a Westmalle Trippel clone recipe out there?
David Brandt
Cloverdale, CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:46:33 +0000
From: "J. KISH" <jjkish@att.net>
Subject: Re:Frig vs GFI--Bob Sutton
When you have a GFI mounted in a room, all of the
120 volt outlets in that room are protected by that
GFI. You don't need to use an extention cord to
find another GFI. Leakage to ground from other
outlets will trip that GFI.
Joe Kish
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:56:05 -0800
From: Chris <smithchr@mindspring.com>
Subject: re: ss welding
Slow down now. You do not want to weld the copper to the
keg. You just need the best contact in order to conduct the
heat away. On welding, no way copper to stainless. With
normal hand gear that is. You can use laser or EB but that
would be a waste of money. If you really want to put a
chiller on the outside of a keg this is how I went about
it. This is the cheapest part. The big bucks come into the
glycol ( or other refrigerant) recirculator, pump reservoirs
and plumbing. Plain water will probably not carry enough
heat away to be efficient. You need a pretty good
temperature delta as well as a coolant that can carry many
BTU's out to the heat exchanger. My garage is beginning to
resemble something out of a bad sci-fi movie due to this
type of affair.
Have some small ss clips welded to the can at 90 intervals
at top and bottom
Put nut plates on the clips for straps to connect the clips
at top and bottom.
Wrap the copper tube as tight as possible around the keg
without kinking. you can loosen and tighten the straps as
you work the copper tightly against the cans and adjust the
gap between loops.
Then hose that puppy with a non water absorbing spray foam
over the copper coils.
Sounds like way to much work for something the size of a
corn can. Mine is set up for 15 gallon batches and the only
way I justify the expense and effort put out is that I am
addicted to making excellent beer.
I wanto to use a cornelius keg as a Lager fermentor. My idea
is to weld a 3/8
inch copper tube around it (here I just found SS tubes
limited to 10 inches
long pieces
and they are too hard to work). I have made a cold water
generator (from an
old water through equip.)and I plan to recirculate this cold
water through
this copper tube.
The question is: is possible to weld copper and SS ? I heard
that is
impossible due to totally different fusion temps of these
elements. I was
wondering about use of lead wire soldering ...
Comments, please
Alexandre
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:29:54 +0100
From: Dennis <io185467@student.io.tudelft.nl>
Subject: Oaken Barrels.
Hi,
I'm planning to try aging my brews in small oaken barrels for while.
Does anyone have any experience with this?
Also roast barley is near impossible to obtain where i live, so I
roasted it myself. But the only barley i can just buy is dehusked, is
this a problem?
Thank you,
Dennis.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:33:29 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: ss welding and Could it be a flamethrower?
Alexandre Carminati <carminat@email.com> asks about welding
>I wanto to use a cornelius keg as a Lager fermentor. My idea is to >weld a
>3/8 inch copper tube around it.....
....snip
>The question is: is possible to weld copper and SS ? I heard that is
>impossible due to totally different fusion temps of these elements. I >was
>wondering about use of lead wire soldering ...Comments, >pleaseAlexandre
Try Silver Solder, but watch the temp on the SS. The SS is real thin and
difficult to do without overheating it and causing embrittlement. Or if your
in an experiemnting mood, use metal filled epoxy such as JB Weld. You don't
need to epoxy all of the tubing, just several spots around it. Make sure it
is good and tight for optimal thermal transfer and secure the start and
finish ends by soldering them to the adjacent turn.
Gene Collins <GCollins@cranecarrier.com> is looking for burners.
I'm at the same point with my system. (Check Photopint for pix) However I
plan on making my own burners after the design used by Steve Jones. Photos
at :
http://users.chartertn.net/franklinbrew/gadgets.htm
under 3-Tier and 2-Tier systems.
These are Jet Type burners. I have seen tehm in action, and they work quite
well. Construction is 1/4" iron pipe, with a section of 2"diameter iron pipe
as the venturi/mixing chamber. Cost should be minimal, and if you are
building several (I'm planning on three) the work should be minimal as well.
Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery, under construction.
Johnson City, TN - 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=241124&a=1791925
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von
Bismarck
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:46:34 -0600
From: " Jim Bermingham" <bermingham@antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Dave Burley
Welcome back Dave,
On the 14th of this month Dave Burley shared a post on secondary
fermentation with us. I would like to welcome Dave back home.
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:04:55 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Florida Bottle Bill & Fl Brewers List
Since I wrote the other day on the Florida Bottle Bill and the Fl Brewers
List, there has been a big, positive step forward. Here is the latest post to
the Florida Brewers List from John Larsen, past president of the North Florida
Brewers Guild -
"Here's what happened today at the committee meeting concerning HB187.
The bill was introduced by its sponsor. A member of the committee
(Clark?) then proposed to amend the bill in the following manner: a)
remove the 3.2% alcohol limit; b) remove the language pertaining to the
documentation of the exporting country's units of measure; and c) allow
cider to be sold in kegs (evidently, it is currently treated as wine and
cannot be sold in kegs?)
There was no discussion and the bill's sponsor said, sure that's OK, so
the amendment was accepted. Then the bill was passed by unanimous
vote. The whole process took maybe ten minutes.
In short, it appears that the bill not only sailed through the
committee, but it also has been amended to remove the undesirable
parts! (It appears that some folks have been working hard behind the
scenes, because this was a done deal. I suspect that Sen. Tom Lee
deserves the bulk of the credit.)
When I last checked the House web site, it didn't mention the amendment,
but I assure you it happened. In committee, the chair asked the sponsor
about something called a "committee substitute". I don't know what that
means, but I'll try to find out.
What appears to be next for the House bill is to go to the Council for
Smarter Government. I think a vote will be required there as well
before it can go to the House floor.
The Senate bill should be on the floor of the full Senate soon."
John is our 'man on the spot'; living in Tallahassee, he has put in a
tremendous amount of time and effort in attending meetings and keeping the
rest of us aware of the latest developements. You can find out more info (or
keep up with developements) at the NFBL web site -
http://www.nfbl.org/BottleBill2001/default.htm
Another important site is the Florida government site, Online Sunshine -
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Welcome/index.cfm
this site has the text of the bills, the voting schedules, etc - but most
importantly, it has the phone numbers, email addresses and other contact info
for all the state legislators, in both the House and the Senate.
I think the fact that the House bill had the objectionable clauses removed and
passed the committee so easily is a tremendous positive sign. The background
work by Sen. Tom Lee (and others), as well as the lower level of opposition
from the distributor and manufacturer's lobbyists, sets the stage for the
bills' success once they actually reach the floors for voting. This means the
critical time for contacting our legislators and telling them how to vote on
this issue will be coming very soon. We set up the Florida Brewers List to
help get out this sort of information and to help mobilize as many people as
possible to contact the legislators to get this repressive law changed.
Looks like we're on our way to success,
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:12:19 -0600
From: rlabor@lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Subject: ss welding
>From: Alexandre Carminati <carminat@email.com>
>
>..I wanto to use a cornelius keg as a Lager fermentor. My idea is to weld a
3/8
>inch copper tube around it ...
I hope the welders can contribute more here, but if it cannot be done easily
I think you can consider placing the keg into a container of water.
Circulate your cooling water in this container and the keg temp will be
controlled nicely.
Ron La Borde
Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor@lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:22:30 -0600
From: rlabor@lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: My idea of a homebrewed chiller
>From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
>...It will pump into a coil submerged in a
>ice bath, then through a second coil immersed in the wort...
Here's the problem, the wort will act as it's own insulator sort of. No
matter how cold you get the coil, without any wort motion, the insulating
effect will limit the rate of wort cooling. If you can build the coil to
cause thermal circulation effects it would work much better. The
counterflow chiller has as it's primary design advantage the principle of
wort and coolant motion at all times.
Ron La Borde
Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor@lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:38:33 -0800
From: Peter Torgrimson <petertorgrimson@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Could it be a flamethrower?
Gene Collins <GCollins@cranecarrier.com> "Subject: Could it be a
flamethrower?" writes:
>> Being web active, I have looked around some different websites and
the best
>> deal I have come across is a 160,000 BTU burner from the Brinkmann
company
>> (www.thebrinkmannco.com) that makes grills, cookers, flashlights,
etc...
>> Twenty bucks each and they are all mine. Is this a good deal or
overkill?
160,000, 170,000, or even 200,000 BTU is not overkill. I would not use
anything less than 160,000, and maybe hold out for the 200,000.
Another source for burners is Metal Fusion down in Louisiana, telephone
800-783-3885. Their prices sound similar to Brinkmann, but their
burners may be a little larger. I would not use a jet burner because of
the noise.
Peter
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:46:30 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man From Plaid <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: The Cajun Jacketed Fermented
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
I have just this minute designed a jacketed fermenter based off of a
cornelius keg. I call it "The Cajun Jacketed Fermenter" to go along
with the "Cajun RIMS" I never finished building. Here's what I did:
o Get coil of copper tubing. 1/4" ID is fine.
o Wrap tubing around keg. If you want to conserve copper,
make sure the coils are denser (more of them) on the top
half of the keg than at the bottom.
o Wrap insulation around the whole works.
o Wrap duct tape around insulation. (This part is optional,
but duct tape should be part of any well thought-out
project.)
o Add appropriate fittings to interface to your coolant supply.
o Make an insulating "lid" to cover the top.
Control of this beast is up to the user. You can use a thermocouple
installed through one of the fitting holes (or make your own hole) and
have a PID temperature controller turn on the cold supply based on
internal temperature of the fermenter. Or, you can simply run a constant
stream of coolant at your desire temperature.
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:53:05 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders@paddockwood.com>
Subject: flattery, mail-order, Gambrinus ESB
Why, Mr Lundeen! We're ever so flattered....
Brian professes his devotion to Paddock Wood in Homebrew Digest #3586 (March
21, 2001). It's nice to know we're loved. As Brian points out, North of the
Border the home brewing situation is very different from most US cities. Two
or three Canadian stores, run by all-grainers, offer a limited selection of
malts in stock, Calgary and Halifax I know have a good local shop. But all
of Canada is only equivalent to a single US state in population, and we are
rather spread about. It makes it hard for a local store to justify stocking
bulky, low return items. In fact, it's hard for us to justify it too. We're
just obsessed. Maybe one day we'll actually turn a profit, but in the
meantime we get to make good beer, and help others make good beer. And the
requests from our customers help us make better beer too! Keeps us on our
toes.
Brian also pesters: "If I can't get what I want there, I probably don't need
it (with the exception of Gambrinus' ESB and Munich 100"
Hey! We've had Gambrinus ESB for a while, but I see it's not listed. That
could be why there hasn't been much interest! Oops. I shall rectify that.
And Gambrinus' Munich 100 (actually 25-30 Lov) we still don't have but it is
on order for early May.
cheers,
Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders@paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:53:17 EST
From: Brewboy1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jolly Ranchers
Stephen,
I am probably not the first to admit this but I have actually tried using
Jolly Ranchers as an adjunct in one of my homebrews. My good friend Tom
Gardner and I tried this back in college when we were attempting to brew a
most refreshing summer quenching Watermelon Ale. The theory was and remains
that the Watermelon Jolly Ranchers are sugar and can be liquified on the
stove top, cooled down and pitched into the beer. It sorta worked...I think
that if we had used the Sugar as a priming agent for bottling, it would have
worked better. Adding the sugar to the secondary kick started the
fermentation and the beer lacked a pronounced Watermelon Character.
Now that I make beer 7bbls at a time, I have thought about trying this
again...but I think that we'd spend too much time peeling away all those
wrappers. Good Luck, I am anxious to see if I am the only one who has
foolishly tried this.
Tomme Arthur
Head Brewer
Pizza Port Solana Beach Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:57:03 -0500
From: "Tom Williams" <williams2353@hotmail.com>
Subject: Simple Chiller??
Steven contemplates building a simple chiller:
>a) small/compact
>b) makes cleanup simple/quick/easy
>c) works
>d) fits into the KISS rule - keep it simple stupid! "
Then proceeds to make it less simple:
>a line comes out of a condensate pump used for a home AC unit, this >might
>need to be stronger if need be. It will pump into a coil >submerged in a
>ice bath, then through a second coil immersed in the >wort, connected by a
>length of rubber line. The return will dump into >the tank built into the
>pump. I am thinking of using Propelene Glycol >and Water mix for good heat
>transfer with limited toxic effects. I can >pump all liquid into a sealed
>container after use and pump liquid from >the container into the pump to
>prime it when i start the cooling >process. "
The issue I think you may have missed is what happens to the heat removed
from the wort? You will be collecting it in your closed loop system,
requiring a much bigger ice bath than would be necessary just to lower the
approach temperature. The ice bath coil will probably need to be bigger as
well. Also, the flowrate from an A/C condensate pump may not be high
enough.
Why not skip the pump and tank arrangement, and just use once-through tap
water? Plenty of pressure, rejected heat goes down the drain, no worries
about the glycol, and the cooling medium temperature will be much lower
entering the ice bath. (In fact, you can probably keep the first coil out
of the ice until the wort temperature gets fairly low, then drop it in to
lower it further).
An interesting exercise would be to calculate the cost of the tap water used
for cooling one batch, and compare it to the cost of the glycol necessary
for this system. I'm guessing it would take quite a few batches of
once-through tap water to equal the cost of the glycol charge.
All that said, your closed loop cooling system sounds like fun. Let us know
how it turns out.
Cheers,
Tom Williams
Dunwoody, Gerogia
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:01:59 -0500
From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl@sagedesign.com>
Subject: GCHC 2001 - Toronto will be Centre of Homebrew Universe!
For two days only, May 4th and 5th, the Centre of the Homebrew Universe
will be in Toronto.
This year's Great Canadian Homebrew Conference, with a theme of Brewing
Through the Ages, promises to be an great event. Cost for the entire event
is only $100 Canadian (less if you book early). This price includes a
historic homebrew reception on Friday May 4th, the full day conference on
the Saturday May 5th to be followed by a brewers banquet at the Granite
Brewpub in which a 3 course meal will be cooked and served with the
Granite's fine ales.
Declaring the event to be the centre of the homebrew universe may seem
somewhat arrogent, but in this case it is not as CABA is pleased to
announce that none other than Jeff Renner will be featured amongst our
fine lineup of speakers (Rennerian 0,0). For more information and to
download a registration form see CABA's website at www.realbeer.com/caba
Cheers Darryl Newbury
CABA Vice-President
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:03:07 -0500
From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl@sagedesign.com>
Subject: Local vs Mail Order ... and Big City Homebrew Clubs
Brian Lundeen says:
> On to the main point of the rant. As an all-grain brewer, I feel that
>Stephen is being far too generous toward the local shops.
Sadly, Brian's comments do seem accurate with few exceptions. Here in
Toronto we have one store Brew-Your-Own which caters to all grain brewers.
Although their selection is not as great as places that do mail order like
Paddockwood which I occasionally rely on (incidentially Stephen I too
would be interested in a bag of Gambrinius ESB), Brew-Your-Own does have
most of the needs for homebrewers (a good selection of malt: Canadian
Malting, Hugh Baird and DWC; a good selection of yeast: most Wyeast,
Whitelabs and dry strains and a good variety of hops). That said, the
owner says that he makes little profit from all-grain brewers and selling
kits and extracts is a greater part of his business. Another shop I've
been too out in the suburbs has products available for grain brewers but
no understanding of our needs... ie. you can buy a 25kg bag of ground
roasted barley there that has undoubtable gone unsold for many months, not
years. I suspect that high rents and too specialized a hobby make it
difficult for quality homebrew shops to make a go in large urban settings.
On Brain's other comment, that is his attempt to bring me into a debate
about thriving homebrew clubs makes me wonder ... are there thriving clubs
in other large cities our efforts in Toronto have thus far be futile at
organizing a clubs (well, not entirely 5 or 6 of us have had a great time
getting together for pints over the past few months). Maybe its because
there's too much to do here or CABA organizes a couple of events a year in
Toronto - but it seems to me that there should be more interest for a club
than there currently is.
Cheers Darryl in Toronto.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:06:14 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Brewing with Rye
I already ditched the dighst today, but remembered someone asking about
brewing with rye.
Check out:
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.3/index.html
It has an article on rye brewing.
You can get to a list of the back issues by searching from :
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/
Lots of good stuf. I'm only on issue 3.
Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery, Under construction.
Johnson City, TN 5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=241124&a=1791925
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von
Bismarck
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:23:39 -0500
From: "Moyer, Douglas (IndSys, SalemVA)" <Douglas.Moyer@indsys.ge.com>
Subject: Beer & flatulence
"Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t@ix.netcom.com> writes (in response to Nils):
- ---------
>4) Any way to reduce the undesirable flatulent affects of beer?
why would you want to? just kidding. possibly try some of the less
carbonated
styles - the higher the carbonation, the more gas, etc etc
- ---------
Dr. Dean Edell writes:
"Does increased gas wind up in your large intestine to increase flatulence?
It is actually a big question. Some doctors say yes, and some doctors say
no"
But, the question is not so much the gas, but the smell! He also writes:
"When excess gases are produced and passed from the body, most of them are
virtually odorless, which brings us to another question -- where does the
smelly gas come from?
Well, it turns out that sulfur compounds are the culprit. A flatulence
containing only .001 percent of hydrogen sulfide, methanethiol or
dimethylsufide are the main gases responsible for the odors we find
offensive.
The odorous gases can be caused by nonabsorbable sulfur-containing compounds
such as broccoli and other cruciferious vegetables, as well as beer.
Activated charcoal is sometimes used to fight flatulence, but it's fairly
ineffective in preventing odors. One thing that does work is bismuth, which
binds to sulfides and offers a solution to feces or flatus odors. In fact,
four tablets of Pepto Bismol a day results in eliminating the release of
methane."
Back to me: Now how do we reduce the sulfur compounds in our beer?
Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA
Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:28:58 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH@theshowdept.com>
Subject: Dwarf Hops
I have begun to research Dwarf Hops. They were developed in 1996 at Wye
college in Kent England in a effort to create a hop which would be less
costly and easier to manage. They grow to a height of approximately 8'
instead of the normal 15' or more. I am wondering if anyone has used
these and if they are available in the U.S.? I did find a post in the
archives from someone asking the same question a couple years ago but no
responses.
It seems to me that Dwarf Hops make growing in limited space or even
indoors a possibility. Any further information or leads on rhizomes in
the U.S. would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.breworld.com/the_brewer/9601/br4.html - Article about the
development of Dwarf Hops
TIA,
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3587, 03/22/01
*************************************
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