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HOMEBREW Digest #3606
HOMEBREW Digest #3606 Fri 13 April 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
The Devil We Know (craftbrewer)
Balto breweries (Ray Kruse)
Starter grenades ("Greenly, Jeff")
Boston Trip (Rick Pauly)
astringency, bungs, and oxidation (Marc Sedam)
acid washing procedure, darrells big vienna, keg lube remover ("Czerpak, Pete")
Re: CO2 cylinders (Joel Plutchak)
Secondary for ale (John Clark)
re:oh sure...I've never had any problems (Jim Adwell)
Cleaning and Sanitizing (" Jim Bermingham")
RE:Gump Report/Johnson -Piling On ("Donald D. Lake")
re. Acid Washing Yeast (Clifton Moore)
Mini Kegs ("Tom Williams")
RE: Drying Carboys ("McGregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL")
IMHO: Tannin Extraction from Steeping (John Palmer)
Stuff (happydog)
Australia, Australia, Australia, we luv ya! G'day (Bret Morrow)
Best of Philly Competition XVIII (Karl Smith)
Fermentation stalled (Newby Frederickson)
Thermocouple wire (Todd Etzel)
if you like brown ales... (darrell.leavitt)
poor attenuation all the time ("Rick Hamel")
Astringency and pH (Pat Babcock)
*
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:26:09 +1000
From: craftbrewer@telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: The Devil We Know
G'Day All
/
Glen thinks he can get me out of my hole with this comment
Then there are those who do nothing and those who go to great
measure to reduce the risk of HSA: floating plastic balls on the
surface, CO2 blankets, enlisting the help of the devil... ok...
only Graham does this. [that should lure him out of his hole]<<<<
/
/
Not a chance mate. Very confortable living down here. And
speaking of holes, the real reason I haven't surfaced is Phil Yates
himself
He writes>>>> I must tell you that Aussies are not inclined to go
quiet just because a mate inserts his finger up your rectum!
Quite the opposite in fact. This sort of practise was prolific at the
Burradoo Hilton before I arrived here and appointed myself as
Baron. John Hopoate by the way was a regular patron.
/
I'm not sure where they have all got to. But when I find them
their rectums will be a lot sorer than would have resulted from a
game of footy with John Hopoate!!<<<<<
/
/
Now Dear John actually practiced his "back yard" doctoring here
in North Queensland. I was quick to put an end to it, so out came
the baseball bat. It was when he smiled I realised a cricket bat was
in order. Well he was ear to ear. That disappeared when I wrapped
it in barbed wire. But I now live in fear in the deep North. These
southerners and in particular those in the Southern Highlands
have exploratory fingers. Keep your habits at the hilton will you.
And whats worse I have seen Phils hands. Oh they are small
and whimpy, If only he would cut his nails.
/
/
Now as usual something silly has come up again, HSA during
the boil. Like all things in CRAFTBREWING this is a yes no
answer. Now there is ample evidence that it does occur. To a
few of us serious brewers we will try to minumise its effect, with
the design of our Boiler (see the oz website for mine). And yes I
have tasted it in some of my 'long term' stored beers.
/
BUT - the effect is suttle and not noticeable to most craftbrewers.
The reason is complex, but it boils down to, many brewers cant
pick up the taste because they hop/malt agressively, they drink
their beers too soon for the flavour to develop, They dont know
what the taste is anyway.
/
So my advise to 90% of you is do what Charlie says, don't worry.
Unfortunately I'm in that 10 % class.
/
Shout
Graham Sanders
/
Oh I often wondered why southern football players smear vasoline
over themselves. They tell me to make them more slippery to
tackle. I think they got it half right.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 04:36:49 -0400
From: Ray Kruse <rkruse@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Balto breweries
Mark,
When will you be here? The Cross Street Irregulars is having a local
pub crawl on 28 April.
Near the Yard, huh? Wharf Rat is definitely there. Also, Capitol City
Brewing at the Inner Harbor (it's been two years since I was there, as
there beer sucked and I swore off) Also, Baltimore Brewing Co near the
Flag House is nearby. And don't forget Sisson's at Cross Street Market,
where our club meets. All are within easy crawling distance from Camden
Yard.
If you have a car, Fordham Brewery (Ram's Head Tavern) in Annapolis is
easy to get to, with great beer and good food. And DuClaws in Bel Air
has a good selection of great beer. And on the way to DuClaws, stop at
White Marsh Mall and visit Red Brick Station on The Avenue.
Let me know when you'll be in the area. We can get together for a brew.
Ray Kruse
Traveler to Michigan
Glen Burnie, PRMd
rkruse@bigfoot.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 05:09:51 -0400
From: "Greenly, Jeff" <greenlyj@rcbhsc.wvu.edu>
Subject: Starter grenades
Fellow brewers,
I recently had several pint jars of "sterilized" wort that I intended to use
for starters blow up in the refrigerator. Not just burst lids; in three
cases, the jars actually shattered. Needless to say, the inside of the
little dorm fridge I am using is sticky and wrecked. I made a basic 1 gallon
wort with a small amount of hop pellets and light DME to 1.060, placed it in
new, sanitized Ball brand jars fresh from the grocery, put rings and lids
on, and then placed them in SWMBO's canning cooker for 45 minutes at full
boil. The lids popped, so I know there was a good seal. After, they were
allowed to cool to room temp, and then they were placed into the fridge for
future use. Almost every one of them burst in some way, most with burst
seals and bent lids. All I can think of is some sort of infection, but
wouldn't the canning boil have killed everything?
Puzzled and worried,
Jeff
greenlyj@rcbhsc.wvu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:46:54 -0400
From: Rick Pauly <flp2m@virginia.edu>
Subject: Boston Trip
My wife and I are planning a trip to Boston in June.
We, of course, want to hit the best brew pubs and beer bars.
Any and all recommendations would be appreciated.
Also any other spots of interest that you care to mention would be
appreciated too as well as palces to stay.
Thanks
Rick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:28:55 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: astringency, bungs, and oxidation
Or is that oxidized astringent bungs...whatever.
Great. The HBD server goes down and Pat takes his grumpy ol'
self on my message. I still say the pH drops with dark malts,
and I still say that the complexation of tannins will round out
flavors over time. To me, astringency might be one thing to make
a hefe taste drinkable. Ugh. One beer style I just can't drink
anymore. Although the Maisel's Weiss and Schneider Weiss in
Munich were fine. Steve A's message does certainly make things a
bit clearer. Steve, can I send that part about always being
right to my wife. She still needs proof.
Jeff R. also brings up a wacky theory about dark malts preventing
oxidation. It's not so wacky, really. I do recall reading
somewhere (likely an old Brewing Techniques or Noonan's book)
that an ounce of black malt helps prevent oxidation. Could be a
momily, but it's also been part of my brewing practices ever
since. Even used it in my CAPs and Helleses (Helli??). You
don't see or taste any part of the black malt, but I can say that
most of my beers are pretty stable once kegged. And I do know
that I'm sensitive to oxidation flavors. OTOH, I also boil most
of my beers with the kettle mostly covered to reduce oxidation
too. Forgot to do it on this last helles and noticed a darker
wort. Score one for the bionic Burley.
All this talk of rusty bungs and rugby makes me wonder if I'm in
Oz.
- --
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:41:22 -0400
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak@siigroup.com>
Subject: acid washing procedure, darrells big vienna, keg lube remover
To Ant H. in south africa:
Yeast do not need to be washed at such a low temp. Room temperature is
recommended. The low temperature given would however be a decent long term
storage temperature for slurry.
They also do not need to be water washed first although it may help remove
some excess trub.
BOth of the above came from the notes on acid washing for commercial
breweries on the White Labs Yeast website. It sounds like you are doing
things perfectly okay to me.
To Darrell:
Comment on your hopping schedule to us in terms of your brew being too
sweet/malty please. Also, how did the slurry do in its previous pitch that
you harvested from? When you took your gravity going to secondary, was the
beer warmed to about room temp or did you correct for temp with your
hydrometer. Its possible that a 50F hydrometer reading would be reading
higher by maybe 0.002-0.004, making your brew more what you would think at
1.016ish for room temp.
I would also second the "use unscented dishwasher powder soap and water" to
remove keg lube. If it removes all the grease and crap off my dishes, it
should work fine. Dilute lemon juice or vodka may work as solvent as well.
I use citrus based cleaners to decrease bike and auto parts.
Pete czerpak
albany, NY
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:56:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: CO2 cylinders
Jeff Rennerian, Center of the Homebrew Universe, wrote:
>Jason Gorman wrote:
>>I have an old CO2 cylinder that failed the hydro test.
>I don't know about refurbishing, but I doubt it. However, I have
>seen (and heard) some beautiful Japanese style bells made from old
>cylinders.
Y'know, when I read Jason's article something rang a
mental bell (sorry) but it didn't quite come into focus.
You've hit the nail on the head, so for anyone interested
in making things that make music, let me heartily recommend
the book "Sound Designs: A Handbook of Musical Instrument
Building" by Reinhold Banek and Jon Scoville. It includes
descriptions of many folk-style instruments that can be
made from "garbage" and easily-available materials, including
the temple bell Jeff describes. Coincidentally, I just
finished assembling a slit drum described in the book, and
will varnish it this weekend. It's just the thing to bang
on while waiting for the wort to come to a boil-- as a
mallet I use a wooden spoon with a #6-1/2 stopper on the
- --
Joel Plutchak
Banging a gong in East-Central Illinois (and brewing an
all-Fuggle Bitter even as you read this)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Clark <a.jclark@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Secondary for ale
I do not know why but I have been using a secondary on
all of my ales. I started doing this last year and it
has worked out well for me. I get less yeast in my
bottles but the same good carbonation. I think the ale
taste just as good if not better than bottling from
the primary. It takes an extra few days but I have
noticed nothing but good things with my final product.
Can anyone give me a good reason why I should do this?
I am talking regular ales. Some with honey some with
fruit concentrate some are just light ales. Are there
any good advantages or am I just wasting my time?
Thanks
a.jclark@rocketmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:29:37 -0400
From: Jim Adwell <jim@jimala.com>
Subject: re:oh sure...I've never had any problems
>Competitions are a good independant test, but anyone who's
>submitted the exact same beer to two competitions at the same
>time knows that you can get low 40's or low 20's depending on the
>subjectiveness of the judges.
Not only are beer judges subjective about taste, but so are you and your
friends and the consumers-of-your-homebrew. A few cases in point:
Years ago when I brewed in Hawaii, most of my brews had a faint undertaste
of, well, the sewer; not so bad that I wouldn't drink it, but definitely
there. No one else who drank my beer noticed it, even when I mentioned it
to them. Were they just being polite, and drinking bottle after bottle (
as much as I was willing to part with) of free beer? Was it an infection?
Was it just my imagination? I don't know.
Last year I experimented with beer made entirely from grain other than
barley. One beer, a 50% rye malt/50% unmalted oat ale tasted (to me) like
sweet fruity Budweiser and was essentially undrinkable, by me, at least.
Most of my usual taste-testers agreed, but one fellow really loved the
stuff, so I gave him the whole batch.
As an experiment I kept a few bottles of beer in plastic PET bottles for 2
years to get an idea how the gas permiability of PET would affect the beer.
After two years the beer had oxidized to an interesting nutty-sherry taste
( and I don't taste any 'cardboard' flavor ); it's not beer any more, but I
kinda like it. My taste-testers to a man/woman hate the taste of it. Are
my taste buds that out of sync with others? Am I just fooling myself?
I suppose my point is that even if you are making infected beer ( and we
all are, to some degree ) if you like it, and those whose opinions you care
about like it, that's all that matters. If Steve Alexander and Dave Burley
can taste the difference in their beer between boiling partially covered
vs. completely open boiling 6 months or so later, then it's important to
them to minimise HSA; I can't, and it's not important to me. On the other
hand, if you aren't satisfied with the results of your brewing, you owe it
to your taste buds to examine every aspect of your brewing technique for
ways to improve your results, not just sanitation.
Cheers, Jim
in Central New York
Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://brewery.jimala.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 11:10:15 -0500
From: " Jim Bermingham" <bermingham@antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Cleaning and Sanitizing
Lately there have been discussions on sanitizing but little on cleaning
until Marc Sedam's post dated 11 April.
Dr. George Fix gave a presentation on fermenters at the Bluebonnet 2001 in
March of this year. A part of that presentation concerned cleaning and
sanitizing. Dr. Fix conducted some experiments on cleaning and sanitizing.
The results of those experiments are outlined on Laurie and George's
homebrewing web site:
http://hometown.aol.com/brwyfoam/Homebrewing-with-Fix.html Follow the
Bluebonnet 2001 link. Some of you may be surprised at the results.
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:24:46 -0400
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake@gdi.net>
Subject: RE:Gump Report/Johnson -Piling On
Mr. Johnson's recent criticism of the AHA was unwarranted and his
defensive reply makes him a valid target for "piling on."
Sure, the AHA has had it's moments of deserved criticism in the past.
But to criticize them for not offering their toll-free phone # in an
email post is just plain silly. The irony that makes this an
entertaining story was exposed by Rob when he pointed out that Mr.
Johnson himself did not offer a toll-free phone# for his own business
that he "accidently" pimped in his post
Although Mr. Moline's response a seemed a bit strong. People who put
their hearts into something tend to get a little touchy when they feel
attached by cynical types who only seem to criticize and are not part of
the solution.
Don Lake
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:00:47 -0800
From: Clifton Moore <cmoore@gi.alaska.edu>
Subject: re. Acid Washing Yeast
Ant,
For years I have heard mention of acid washing, and picked
up a few bits of info on what the intention was, but I have
never read any detailed procedures.
Your willingness to state target pH of 2, and time of soak, along
with your friends advised 4 deg target is more specific data
than is often offered.
It makes sense to acid wash just prior to pitching, as I
understand the intention is to knock down any bacteria,
and this would best be done just before use to reduce revitalization.
I have always used sterile water wash, and pitch the slurry.
So just how do you make the pH 2.0?
Clif
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:08:03 -0400
From: "Tom Williams" <williams2353@hotmail.com>
Subject: Mini Kegs
Steve wrote about his mini keg experiences:
" 2) I had some leakage around the tap/keg joint when the tap was
inserted wet."
I have this type of leakage nearly every time, and I find that it limits the
life of the CO2 cartridges. If there were some way to stop this leakage,
the kegs could be kept cold and carbonated in the fridge for several days.
Anybody have a solution?
" 3) Getting the carbonation levels right is tough - The first 5
gallons was primed with 4 oz corn sugar, the second with 5 oz. SWMBO
was unhappy both times. I'll try 6 oz next month. "
How do these priming rates compare to the rates you use when bottling? I
have tried putting corn sugar directly in each keg, but I have never been
satisfied with my carbonation results. (I read somewhere that they should be
primed less than bottles).
" 4) Drying the kegs out is no fun - I ended up using rolled up
papertowels and shaking. the bung lip keeps a good deal of water in
the keg that will not drain out. "
I have exactly the same experience. I have given up trying to dry them. I
just make sure they are sanitized and rinsed well, and I cover the openings
when stored empty. I don't think a little rinse water left in the bottom
matters.
I have some kegs which were bought from a homebrew store specifically for
this purpose, and some which I bought with beer in them (Grolsh,
Warsteiner). Both perform equally well. Also, I have a different brand tap
- mine is a Fass Frisch. How well does the Philtap regulate the CO2?
Cheers,
Tom Williams
Dunwoody, Georgia
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:31:37 -0400
From: "McGregor, Arthur, Mr, OSD-ATL" <Arthur.Mcgregor@osd.mil>
Subject: RE: Drying Carboys
Hi All!
I clean my carboys with soap and water, then soak overnight in bleach/water
solution (1-3 Tablespoon/carboy). Next day rinse with hot water, drain, set
carboy down and wait a few minutes pour out the residual water, and then put
an unused, new from the box, coffee filter on top of the carboy and secure
tightly with a rubber band. The coffee filter lets the remaining water
evaporate and also keeps out bugs, dirt, etc. I've made over 164 batches
since early '93, and never had a problem from this method.
Hoppy Brewing,
Art McGregor
Northern Virginia, USA
(arthur.mcgregor@osd.mil)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:31:27 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer@gte.net>
Subject: IMHO: Tannin Extraction from Steeping
Hi Group,
I think Jeff hit the nail on the head. I have a keen interest in steeping
technique, as I am trying to be as technically correct as possible in my
book, and my findings are that steeping too hot or boiling leads to more
astringent wort. The primary reason that you get tannin extraction from
too-hot-steeping versus not with decoction (IMO) is the degree of roasting
of the malts typically used for each process, and the thickness of the
solution which contributes to the stability of the pH.
In decoction, with its very low water/grain ratio, the pH is highly buffered
even during boiling, and the grainbill consists of lager and or munich malts
and not the crystal, chocolate, and black patent used when making dark ales.
In the case of Black Beer (Schwarzbier), I believe it is decoction mashed,
but the roast malts only make up about 20% of the grist, so the stability of
the polyphenol bonds is probably better for the same aforementioned reasons.
As another data point, some years ago, I was brewing a pale ale and missed
my conversion temperature with the infusion. I was already at 2.5 quarts per
lb and didnt want to add any more water. So, I thought I would just boil
some of the water above the mash and pour it back in. My decoctions (2 at 2
quarts each) were mostly water but with some grain and husk material
floating in it. Well, that beer definitely had an astringent note to it. Not
horrid, not even particularly noticeable to non-brewers, but I could taste
it.
My 2 cents,
John
- --
John Palmer
jjpalmer@realbeer.com
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
How To Brew - the online book
http://www.howtobrew.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:05:49 GMT
From: happydog@nations.net
Subject: Stuff
1) The AHA flap (again). A wise old man once told me " You ain't going
to change the course of a ship by standing on the shore and yelling at
it, you have to get on board and help steer."
Take that as you will. I have never been a member, but if I wanted to
really be heard, I would join up and help steer. Nuff said.
2) I have and use a counter flow wort chillers on my HERIMS (garden
hose and Phil's phittings) The first time I used it I could have
kicked myself for not getting one sooner. One of the best things I
ever added to my system besides the pump! I clean mine during the
boil. I recirculate one gallon of warm One step threw it, 5 mins at a
time on and off for 90 mins. When the pumps not running the one step
stays in the chiller and the pump, I don't know how many times I do it
during the 90 mins, I just do it. I then connect the tubing to the
kettle when its time to chill and turn on the pump to pump out the one
step, stop when its all wort and then pump into my 2 or 3 buckets near
by. After pumping the wort I again recirculate warm one step on and
off during clean up and put both the pump and chiller away as dry as I
can get them. I'm making the best beer I ever made. Its cheap, It
works and I trust it!!! (and if you don't believe me stop by and have
a beer ;-)
3) Did anyone do the Bean-O thing from one of the past Brew your own
mags? If so how was it?
4) I have a small group of people here in South Carolina that would
like to start to change the 6% law we have here. I see that folks are
doing the same thing or close to the same thing in Ga. and Fla. I
would really like some pointers of ANYthing you guys have learned such
as do's and don't or even the best place to start when working with
the Butthea... err,, umm... I mean state government people. I am no
longer content with standing on the shore and yelling.
Wil Kolb
Happy Dog Brewing Supplies
401 W.Coleman Blvd
Mt Pleasant SC 29464
843-971-0805
Fax 843-971-3084
1-800-528-9391
happydog@nations.net
www.maltydog.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:18:56 -0400
From: Bret Morrow <bret.morrow@yale.edu>
Subject: Australia, Australia, Australia, we luv ya! G'day
Greetings
I have a quote from the New Haven Advocate (4/12/01)
"In February, Australian ex-soldier Frederick Somerfield, 79, won his
appeal and will now receive a military disability pension, based on
heart trouble that he said was caused by having drunk too much beer
while stationed at remote locations during World War II. In fact, he
said, some of the locations were so remote that the only alcoholic
beverages available were very cheap brews, which were especially bad on
his heart."
I don't think I could add anything to that other than he must not have
been posted to UK where the beers are wonderful--Maybe he was in St.
Louis, MO?
More of this stuff is available online at http://www.newsoftheweird.com
Cheers,
Bret Morrow
Hamden, CT
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:45:51 -0500
From: Karl Smith <krs@pond.com>
Subject: Best of Philly Competition XVIII
Homebrewers of Philadelphia and Suburbs
(HOPS)
Presents
Best of Philly Homebrew Competition XVIII
(18th in a Series)
Saturday, April 21, 2001 9:30 am
Hosted by: The Restaurant School
Drexel University
Academic Building, top floor
102 N 33rd St.
(NE corner of 33rd & Arch Sts)
Philadelphia, PA
UPDATE!!!!! BEST OF SHOW will win the additional prize of having
their winning entry brewed at MANAYUNK BREWING in Philadelphia
!!!!!!!!!!!
UPDATE!!!!! Entry deadline extended to Wednesday, April 18th at the
HomeSweet Homebrew location only (mail in and drop offs)!!!!
The special culinary awards banquet is open to the public.
If you have any questions or would like to judge or steward call the
Competition Coordinator (Joe) at 215-885-3897 or e-mail at
birman@netaxs.com
* Forms and Info at http://www.netaxs.com/~shady/hops/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:03:58 -0700
From: Newby Frederickson <newbywan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Fermentation stalled
I am new to homebrew ing and just put a 5 gal batch in to the primary
fermenter 2 days ago and the fermentation activity stalled on the
morning after yeast was pitched. I am interested in information about
why fermentation would stall and what can be done to 'jump start' or
revive it. Some pertanent info:
I made a wert chiller and it worked VERY well, the yeast was pitched at
68-70F.
I only used 1 packet of EDME yeast.
It was cold the first night and the strip thermometer on the fermenter
reads 65F.
My theories and actions:
1) It got too cold and the yeast has gone dormant or died
a) Wrapped fermenter in a blanket (furniture pad actually)
b) Turned on propane burning heater (placed 6-8 feet away)
2) There is insufficient yeast to do the job completely
a) Have another packet of EDME yeast on-hand
The heat seems to reviving the fermentation but I don't want to shock
the monkey with radical temp changes. I will continue to bring the temp
up slowly and do what i can to keep the frosty night air away. Can you
provide some recommendations or enlightenment from experience, relavent
articles or books?
Thank you,
Newby
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:26:41 -0700
From: Todd Etzel <tetzel@ligo.caltech.edu>
Subject: Thermocouple wire
Mike Pensinger asked about what type of wire to use for thermocouples. It
is important to use thermocouple wire all the way to your
controller. Using normal copper wire would create another thermocouple
where the two dissimilar metals meet. You would end up with three
thermocouples in series, each having a different characteristic.
Todd Etzel
LIGO Project, CalTech
Control and Data Systems Group
626-395-2075
tetzel@ligo.caltech.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:07:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: darrell.leavitt@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: if you like brown ales...
If you like brown ales...and have not tried using Caraffa malt,
....just 1/4 pound of caraffa III in a malt bill that contained
9lb lager malt
2 lb wheat
1/2 lb crystal
renders a very interesting....hard to describe...but very nice flavor
to a brown ale.
Bavarian yeast was, I suppose, part of it...
..Darrell
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:50:44 -0400
From: "Rick Hamel" <hamelrick@hotmail.com>
Subject: poor attenuation all the time
Hi everyone,
I'm wondering if anyone can help me figure out a problem I am having. I am
only getting 69-71 % attenuation on all my batches. I ferment at 68
degrees. Fermentation kicks off fast and goes steady. Maybe I am racking to
early. After 10 days the Krausen still hadn't fallen (Wyeast 1056). I
racked to secondary (o.g. 1.055 s.g. 1.016) after another 10 days at 68
degrees I kegged (s.g. 1.014).
I rack using co2 to push the beer from carboy to keg or another carboy.
Here are some things I think may be causing my poor attenuation.
1) Doing step mashes in a kettle with polar ware false bottom. The bottom
gets too hot and kills enzymes. There is a little over a gallon of wort
under the false bottom that can't be stirred.
2) Could also just be inconsistent mash temp by heating the mash under the
kettle
3) I initially infuse with 1.33 gal for a protein rest at 122. I think this
might be too thin.
4) I may be racking too early. Not enough yeast to finish the job.
5) during racking co2 transfer method may overly carbonate the beer so yeast
becomes inactive.
I don't think the problem is caused by specialty malts because I also did a
wheat beer 60% wheat 40% 2-row NA pale o.g. 1.049 f.g. 1.014. I used a
single decoction for this one.
Some more details about my brew process
-I oxygenate with pure oxygen
-I've done a protein rest on all these brews do try to reduce chill haze
-My sacrification temp is 153 degrees
Please let me know what you think. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:30:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: Astringency and pH
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager....
I think John Palmer is saying the same thing I've been trying trying to
articulate: decoctions are not astringent because of the grains' ability
to maintian the pH of the decoct. It follows that there is not enough
grain to buffer the pH in a typical steep. Similarly, when one acidifies
the sparge water, the pH of the spargate is controlled as well, preventing
the pH from increasing towards that of water. Note that I did state it is
a function of BOTH temperature and pH in my original post.
As should have been apparent from my last post on the subject, I am highly
skeptical that decocted beers aren't astringent due to reduction during
lagering. One reason is that I test for end of sparge using my taste buds.
My indicators being a loss of the perception of sugars, and the "tea"
character of the spargate, indicating astringency. If the decoctions
increased the astringency of the beer as a matter of course, I should
detect this in testing for end of sparge, shouldn't I?
I also brew a lot of hefeweizens by this manner, and am typically serving
and enjoying them after a fairly brief (2 weeks) conditioning at cellar
temperatures. As opposed to those who don't like hefeweizens, I do have a
fairly firm grasp of the style and its flavor constituents. Astringency
isn't one of them; however, many phenols and esters which WOULD be
complexed out in lagering are.
But this "argument", is, of course, not getting us anywhere.
I propose an experiment. Take a couple gallons of water, steep a typical
specialty grain bill in it, bringing it to a boil. In a similar pot, dose
the water with lactic acid until it has a pH of 5.4. Perform the same
steep. Make beer from each. Triangle test the resulting beers to determine
if there is any astringency present in any of them, we can identify which
process produced them. If the acidified water produced astringency, I bow
to your obvious superiority! If the acidulate batch is NOT astringent, we
can continue to perform various experiments until you prove me wrong. :-)
I would perform the experiment myself, but currently have no time for
brewing due to my janitorial duties. Any takers? More than one would be
best...
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3606, 04/13/01
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