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HOMEBREW Digest #3586
HOMEBREW Digest #3586 Wed 21 March 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
Could it be a flamethrower? (Gene Collins)
Zep Acid Sanitizer (EdgeAle)
Re: CO2 output ("Joel King")
Various ("elvira toews")
RE;RE: Mashing Laaglander Light DME ("Steven Parfitt")
Rye Malt (leavitdg)
Water (AJ)
RE: mail order vs local (Brian Lundeen)
GFCI's (fridgeguy)
GFI and fridge, Chris Topoleski water analysis ("Tracy P. Hamilton")
re: More Wide Ranging Questions ("Mark Tumarkin")
Mail-order vs local, Fringes of Style ("Drew Avis")
GFCI (LaBorde, Ronald)
Jolly Rancher Adjuncts ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
a few things (Marc Sedam)
rectangular vs. round, shops, lemons (Road Frog)
RE: Braided PVC Tubing ("Scott W. Nowicki")
ss welding (Alexandre Carminati)
My idea of a homebrewed chiller (Steven)
Braided PVC Tubing ("Andrew Moore")
Over-Extraction of Specialty Grains ("Andrew Moore")
Re: Hard Candy as an Adjunct ("Charles R. Stewart")
Re: More wide ranging questions ("Daniel C Stedman")
Re: keg purging with CO2 (Spencer W Thomas)
RE: Braided PVC tubing ("Walker, Randy")
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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:18:04 -0600
From: Gene Collins <GCollins@cranecarrier.com>
Subject: Could it be a flamethrower?
I just finished welding up my new three keg gravity enhanced brewing stand.
I am so looking forward to the presumed improvement of my homebrews to come.
My dilemma; no burners yet.
I went down to the local useless home improvement stores and tore the
shelves apart looking for some simple, cast iron burners. I have one in my
turkey fryer that works pretty well, but is advertised at around 60,000
BTU's. I talked to my local brew supply and they recommended the home
improvement stores.
Being web active, I have looked around some different websites and the best
deal I have come across is a 160,000 BTU burner from the Brinkmann company
(www.thebrinkmannco.com) that makes grills, cookers, flashlights, etc...
Twenty bucks each and they are all mine. Is this a good deal or overkill?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:14:47 EST
From: EdgeAle@cs.com
Subject: Zep Acid Sanitizer
HBD,
Does anyone have any experience using Zep FS Formula 386 Acid Sanitizer?
I just got some from a brewing friend who swears by it but I have some
questions.
The label says it is a multi-purpose no-rinse cleaner sanitizer that removes
milkstone and
alkaline mineral deposits. Apparently it is a quat ammonia compound combined
with
phosphoric acid.
I have heard that quats aren't that good for brewing because: a) quats
destroy head and
have poor rinsability plus they aren't as effective against typical brewing
bacteria (gram-
negative?) and require long contact times.
However, my friend's beers have no head problems plus I also seem to recall
that quats were alkaline while this is definitly acid. Am I recalling wrong?
Could this quat formulation
not suffer from the faults of past sanitizers?
I was just wondering if anyone on the HBD has any experience or knowledge of
this specific sanitizer?
Thanks
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, Oceanside CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:37:35 -0000
From: "Joel King" <joel_d_king@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: CO2 output
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:29:18 -0600
From: Rob <shrav@swbell.net>
My son and I did a science project a couple of years ago to investigate just
that thing. The short result:
ml CO2 / ml solution = 0.3007 x change in SG
So, if 5 gallons of beer fermented from an SG of 40 to 10, you would get:
(0.3007)*(40 - 10) = about 9 gallons of CO2.
Now whether that is the CORRECT answer or not, I don't know - that was just
what we measured, and I've never done a stociometric check of the
fermentation equation (or even a spelling check of stociometric).
Subject: CO2 output question
I was wondering if there is anyway to calculate how much CO2 is =
generated (roughly) by a 5 gallon wort fermentation process? I know =
that's a pretty broad question, because obviously CO2 is created at =
different rates depending where in the fermentation cycle the wort is =
in.. I thought maybe there was a way to calculate based on the =
difference in starting and final gravities for a given volume of wort.. =
Also, I was wondering, is CO2 the only gas being given off through the =
airlock in this process? thanks
rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:22:41 -0600
From: "elvira toews" <etoews1@home.com>
Subject: Various
First, I knew that using my mother-in-law's computer was going to come back
to haunt me. I wonder how much beer Brian Lundeen will extort from me to
keep it quiet at the next Brew Bombers meeting. Unless I use Cascades in
all my beers from now on.
As Brian and Jeremy pointed out, my recipe indeed resembles "brewpub ale"
from some regions of NA. I spent five days in Philadelphia and it took a
month before I could taste normal hopping levels again. Thanks for your
comments guys. And if you want it to look like Red River water, shake the
bottle before pouring.
I don't know about wild hops. My father has some feral hops at his cottage
(survivors of the New York state hop fields, perhaps) and despite being
recognizably some kind of Fuggle, they are pretty funky in a beer. A
"hopping" expedition would be a fun club excursion, though.
Re the ground-faulting fridge, I would think that before giving up
(unacceptable) or chancing your life that it's merely an inductive load
problem (less acceptable), you could test the fridge. The required device
is called a "megger" and is simply an ohmmeter on steroids, and is used to
test the integrity of insulation by applying a voltage between the
conductors and ground. This is your life, so find yourself an electrician.
If anyone knows, I am curious to know what an acceptable reading would be.
Re. CO2: C6H12O6 = 2 CO2 + 2 C2H5OH
There are a few ways of applying this, all of which get complicated by
things like you aren't using dextrose, water of hydration, alcohol by volume
instead of mass, real vs. apparent attenuation, etc. Not all of the sugars
go to CO2 & alcohol, but I think your purposes don't require accurate
accounting of the gain in mass of the yeast. If you use degrees Plato it's
easier - each degree P is 10 g sugar per Litre of water. 180 g of sugar
gives 44.8 standard Liters of CO2. Just apply the ratios to figure out
what's going on. It would beat opening the fermenter to take SG readings
daily.
It's easier to simply measure the total CO2 output of a batch, divide it by
the SG drop in units of your choice, and write it down for future reference
as your personal conversion factor.
Re. Late oxygenation in commercial practice - might it be related to
high-gravity brewing? It's what the big breweries do in Canada. The very
carefully measured oxygen additions during fermentation cancel out the
flavour effects of the high gravity, they then dilute with water at bottling
time. It gets 20% more beer out of a fermenter.
Re. keg purging. You can get nearly 0% oxygen in a single purge by filling
your keg to the hatch with water or no-rinse sanitizer, closing it up and
blowing it out with CO2. Sure, some air will get mixed back in as you rack
and close up, but I recently "found" a 2-year old keg of my beer and it was
not obnoxiously oxidized. Well, I was thirsty.
Happy (and safe!) brewing everyone!
Sean Richens
srichens@sprint.ca
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:25:30 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE;RE: Mashing Laaglander Light DME
Pablo Queries about the Starch testing of Laaglander
..... snip
>I have a couple of unanswered questions:
..... snip
>Original Hypothesis - Laagalnder Light DME contains unconverted >starches
>Q: Did you do a starch test on just the Laaglander DME, without >crushed
>grain present? I suspect you may find no starch. If this is >the case, then
>the Laaglandershigh FG is due to dextrins, not starches.
Yes, the original test was just a starch test of Laaglander Light and water
that I had boiled for a starter. I performed a starch test on it and found
it positive. After that I did not starch tests on Laaglander Light only as
It would have been redundant.
snip
>Q: What was your mash temperature? I suspect you tended to the lower >end
>of the temp range (152F? Lower?)
Onthe test mash, I took the mash up to 158 and let it slide back to 140,
then back up to 158 again. Continue til done. This was in a 1qt sauce pan,
so thermal mass was minimal. The temp varied considerably.
When I did the IPA, i hit 154 and tried to adjust the burner (electric eye)
to hold that temp. It crept up to 160, I cut back and it dropped to 150
before I finished.
>I don't used Laaglander myself, (I used Munton&Fison in my extract >days)
>but know of several people who do, that will benefit from your >experiment.
I also like Muntons (no longer marked Munton & Fison, just Muntons) I have
not been able to locate any DME from Muntons, so I only use their liquid. I
use Laaglander DME as my dry powder.
This experiment was performed on Laaglander Light DME. It has a reputation
of having the highest percentage of nonfermentables of the available DME
from Laaglander. I do not know how it compares with their Amber and Dark DME
with regards to starch content. It seems like I saw web site store with
posted percentages for each. If I can find it again, I will post the URL for
those who are interested.
Steven - Ironhead Nano-Brewery, Under Construction. Johnson City, TN
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=241124&a=1791925
5:47:38.9 S, 1:17:37.5 E Rennerian
"Fools you are... who say you like to learn from your mistakes.... I prefer
to learn from the mistakes of others and avoid the cost of my own." Otto von
Bismarck
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:51:18 -0500 (EST)
From: leavitdg@plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Rye Malt
I am in the process of purchasing some rye malt. Does anyone know what is the
max that one could add to a 10lb grain bill?
.Darrell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:58:06 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Water
Let me comment on Chris's water (which I seem to understand better than
GFI's: a strange state of affairs considering my profession).
The water is pretty typical coastal surface water. In saying this I
assume that the iron figure should read < 10 ppb rather than 10 ppm and
similarly for the copper. Given that, it is suitable for brewing almost
everything except Bohemian Pilsners for which the sulfate could cause
problems. Dilution 1:1 with distilled water should solve that problem.
The alkalinity of 76 ppm is partly balanced by hardnesses of 96 for
calcium and 37 for magnesium resulting in a residual alkalinity
(Kohlbach) of 43 which should result in an acceptable mash pH in all but
cases where only the palest malts are mashed with no colored malts at
all.
For British style ales you will want to augment the sulfate. Gypsum is
the obvious choice. Add successively more to subsequent brews (starting
with a quarter of half teaspoonful for 5 gal) until you get a result you
like. The chloride is fine but you might want to augment it somewhat to
round or fill out the sweetness and body of the beer. For this purpose a
little non iodized table salt is fine though calcium chloride can be
used for this as well with the advantage of more calcium and lower mash
pH.
A.J.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:52:39 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: mail order vs local
Stephen Ross rants:
> Paddock Wood started because there were no local shops
> catering to serious
> all-grainers. We have discovered that similar situations
> exist all across
> Canada. If it weren't so, we would be out of business. We
> have no desire to
> compete with other cities' local shops. Homebrewers saving a few bucks
> ordering mail-order can doom their local shop. But until
> such time as local
> shops in Canada carry more than kits, Paddock Wood will have a growing
> mail-order business. I get immense satisfaction at enabling someone in
> Vancouver or Halifax to brew great beer, and even more satisfaction at
> bringing the same great ingredients to far flung towns and
> remote villages
> like Iqaluit, Baffin Island, NWT, or Toronto.
>
First of all, Stephen, it is unfair to equate these two centers. If I am not
mistaken, Iqaluit has a thriving homebrew club. ;-) (Sorry, Darryl, my bad).
On to the main point of the rant. As an all-grain brewer, I feel that
Stephen is being far too generous toward the local shops. Simple fact is,
all-grain brewers will neither keep most local shops in business nor cause
their demise. They live and die on kits; in these parts, primarily wine.
It's the regulars that pop in every two weeks to pick up their red and white
wine kits ("ooh, let's try a Burgundy this week") who keep our shops afloat.
The small amount of profit they will make bringing something in for me means
squat in the big picture. Besides which, past efforts in this regard have
often been met with frustration. They can't get (or often have never even
heard of) what I want; they substitute without telling me thinking I won't
mind; they make me wait weeks till THEY are ready to place an order, then
get the order wrong.
There is only one place in Canada that offers me good variety and good
service, and that is Stephen's store. If I can't get what I want there, I
probably don't need it (with the exception of Gambrinus' ESB and Munich 100
malts, which I have pestered Stephen for on a few occasions). I can even get
undermodified Pils malt from PW, should the masochist in me decide to
attempt a decocted Budvar clone someday. Without PW, I would have to go to
the big mail order places in the US such as St Pat's to get such a
selection, and I would pay dearly for it in shipping and customs charges. I
NEED Paddock Wood to stay in business. How is giving my grain and hops
business to the local shops going to further that goal, especially when it
really means nothing to their bottom line? Unless you have a really kick-ass
local shop in your community, I would encourage the all-grain brewers in
Canada to concentrate your buying dollars with the only good mail order
supplier we have. Unlike the US, we are few and far between and splitting
our votes may cost us in the long run. Concentrating our dollars with the
front runner means they can expand and offer us even better selection and
values. Who knows, maybe someday Lynne will approach them about being the US
distributor for one of their exclusive lines. Well, we can dream. And of
course, NAJASCYYY.
Stephen, that gift certificate can be made out to... just kidding. The
opinions expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the Winnipeg Brew Bombers homebrew club, or any of its
subsidiaries.
Cheers,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:03:08 -0500
From: fridgeguy@voyager.net
Subject: GFCI's
Greetings folks,
In HBD #3585, the subject of GFCI's lives on... and on.
Jason Henning wrote a great description of how a GFCI is affected by
inductive loads. He went on to dispel some mistruths in recent posts -
one of the statements was mine.
I stated that " If the GFCI doesn't trip when a substantial load is
applied (try a blow dryer), it is probably ok." Jason stated
(correctly) that a GFCI doesn't provide overload protection. My
statement was taken out of context. I apologize for any confusion and
I'll try to clarify the situation.
In my experience the most common failure mode for a single phase GFCI
receptacle is for the comparator circuitry to simply stop working.
This means the GFCI can no longer detect a current imbalance and
therefore it doesn't provide any protection beyond that of a standard
receptacle.
All GFI receptacles I have encountered are equipped with a test
button that connects a resistor (15 kilohm on a Leviton 6599-1)
between the incoming neutral terminal and the output hot terminal.
The instructions provided with the GFCI's states that the test button
should be used monthly to assure proper protection. Pressing the test
button should trip the GFCI and open the circuit to both receptacles
on the GFCI itself and any receptacles connected to the load
terminals of the device. If the comparator circuitry isn't
functioning, pressing the test button won't trip the GFCI.
In Bob Sutton's post, he mentioned that his GFCI tripped when his
fridge was plugged into it, and that it happened only since a power
failure occurred. Since the GFCI tripped, I assumed it's comparator
circuitry was functioning, but maybe not correctly.
Another common failure mode for a single phase GFCI receptacle is
for the comparator circuitry to become too sensitive. In such cases
the test button will trip the GFCI. It is also common for the GFCI to
accept the application of a small load without trouble, but will trip
when a larger load is applied. I see this quite often. A recent case
is where a microscope lamp wouldn't trip the GFCI but a computer did
(yes, I tested the computer for leakage and plugged it into several
other GFCI receptacles without trouble).
Bob mentioned in his post that he had plugged a "simple timer" into
his GFCI without tripping it. I put his statement that his GFCI
tripped when his fridge was plugged into it together with his
statement that he had plugged a timer into the GFCI without tripping
it. Bob had provided me with enough information to cover the first
two tests I would likely perform. Using my prior experience as a
guideline, I suggested that he plug a large load into the GFCI, and
that if it didn't trip, the GFCI was probably ok.
The above suggestion was used to check against a common failure mode
for a GFCI receptacle. I did not mean to imply anything else. I also
didn't think it was necessary to fill the digest with every detail
about each component I mentioned nor their operation and design
details.
In the same digest, A.J. deLange conceded that his GFCI post
pertained to polyphase equipment, and not the single phase device I
mentioned.
A.J., Thank you for the clarification.
Since GFCI receptacles have been discussed here before and the
information is readily available elsewhere, I don't believe anything
beyond troubleshooting information is needed in a post dealing with
troubleshooting a fridge.
Also in the same digest, Bob Sutton brought us episode II of his
fridge dilemma, where he told us his fridge also tripped a different
GFCI when he plugged it in via an extension cord.
Thanks for the update, Bob. Please know that it's possible that GFCI
will nuisance trip when it's either located at the end of a long
wiring run or when using a long extension cord due to the inductive
effects Jason Henning mentioned. This is particularly true when an
inductive load is applied (such as a fridge compressor).
I've never actually seen this occur - not even on construction sites
with hundreds of feet of extension cord. YMMV
In my first post, I meant to include a reference to a prior post I
sent regarding wet fridge insulation and associated current leaks,
but alas, I remembered it after I hit the send button. The gist of
the post is that moisture in the various components in a fridge can
provide a small current leakage path that will trip a GFCI. It can
also shock the (*@#(^$% out of you if any part of the grounding
circuit is faulty (including the receptacle and household wiring).
When performing resistance checks on the fridge, isolate and check
all of the various components. Once again, each should ideally read
infinite resistance. Look especially at any cabinet lights and door
heaters. If any component reads less than 2-3 megohms to ground, it
needs to be dealt with. It may be possible to simply dry the
offending part with gentle heat from a blow dryer.
Please report your findings.
Lastly, I'm very truly sorry for the mess my post stirred up on this
list. Please accept my apology.
Forrest Duddles
- --
Pop3Now Personal, Manage 5 Email Accounts From 1 Secure Window
Sign Up Today! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:14:46 -0600
From: "Tracy P. Hamilton" <chem013@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu>
Subject: GFI and fridge, Chris Topoleski water analysis
To Bob, who had the fridge that kept tripping the GFI:
I had a similar experience after a power outage. It turned out that
the loss of power started melting the ice around the coils (unseen since
they are on the other side of the cabinet). Eventually after a complete
defrosting and removal of dampness did it run again. Did I mention
that the power outage was due to SWMBO unplugging it? :)
To Chris Topoleski:
Your water sounds terrific. You can always add some salts if you
want british ales. Particularly gypsum in the mash in your case.
I would try 2 teaspoons if it is fluffy powder. Maybe a pinch
of epsom salts (be careful with this one), and a bit of table
salt (1/2 teaspoon?) in 5 gallons.
Some calcium carbonate in addition (and cut back the gypsum)
in dark ales.
And your filter will not remove any of the ions
already in your water if it is carbon based.
Tracy P. Hamilton
Birmingham Brewmasters
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:20:29 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: More Wide Ranging Questions
Nils is back with more questions -
>1) I'll be bottling the Honey Porter I made this coming weekend. Somewhere
I read that you can use a mixture of ammonia & water to remove the labels
off beer bottles. But, now I can't find the reference. Anyone know what
dillution mixture would be used?
ammonia & water is very effective at removing most labels. the metallic labels
are more resistant - I've got enough bottles that I no longer bother with
them. the mixture doesn't have to be very strong. I've used approx 1 1/2 cups
in a trash can half filled with bottles & water. PBW is also very effective -
use it for cleaning purposes first, then soak your bottles. you get double
mileage that way.
>2) I'll be brewing the Honey Porter again, but using the recipe's suggetion
of Wyeast Irish Ale instead, but this will be the 1st time I'll be using wet
yeast. Effectively, what's the difference between Wyeast & Whitelabs &
which would you recommend? I thought the main difference was that the
Whitelab was immediately pitchable, & Wyeast needed to have a starter made.
But, the guy at the brewing store said that the Wyeast was immediately
pitchable too.
Wyeast does now make ready to pitch yeast as well as the more common
smack-packs. So it depends on which one you've got (if the store said it's
pitchable, than it's probably the newer toothpaste type packaging)
3) I'm also planning on dry hopping, but the original recipe doesn't call
for it. What amount of which hops (bittering or aroma) should be added? I
only have access to pelletized hops if that makes a difference.
dry hopping is used to add more aroma - so use aroma hops, not a bittering
style. pellets are fine, start with a smaller amount (ounce or less for 5 gal)
and see how you like it. you can always add more in later batches - but too
much can yield a grassy note
>4) Any way to reduce the undesirable flatulent affects of beer?
why would you want to? just kidding. possibly try some of the less carbonated
styles - the higher the carbonation, the more gas, etc etc
>5) A local Caribbean restaurant introduced me to my new favorite drink
called a Raddler. It might be a play on the Snakebite, since it's made with
1/2 Newcastle & 1/2 non-alcoholic Ginger Beer. It's a very refreshing
drink, the ginger beer cuts the alcohol & the alcohol cuts the ginger taste.
It's kind of like a dark Zima. Any ideas on the history of this drink? Is
it really from the Caribbean?
No, Radler is a German concoction - traditionally a combo of beer & lemonade,
I believe it got it's start among German bicyclists and became popular from
there
>6) Is there a problem with pitching too much yeast in the wort? I would
like to try splitting a batch after the boil & use 2 different types of
yeast to see how they affect the beer. Should I reduce the yeast for these
2.5 gallon batches?
you'd have to pitch an awful lot of yeast before it became a problem.
underpitching the yeast is a more common problem. in fact, pitching a large
starter is one of the best things you can do for your beer
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:22:33
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Mail-order vs local, Fringes of Style
Regarding Stephen Ross' recent rant on mail-order brewing supplies in
Canada, all I can say is "rant on brother." I'm a direct beneficiary of
Stephen's service, having moved from a city well-served by excellent brew
shops (Calgary) to one almost devoid of anything better than stale kits and
a few yellowing hops (Ottawa). If PW were to disappear, I'd be hard pressed
to find decent hops, yeast, chemicals, equipment, and all the other little
goodies required to make decent beer, without resorting to ordering from the
States, suffering the exchange, duty, and exorbitant UPS customs brokerage
charges. Granted, I buy malt from a local maltster, but PW supplies
everything else. PW has become my "local brew shop".
Sean "Elvira" Richens reports on his new style, "Winnipeg Lager". I'm also
exploring a new style. To seek penance for my previous beer style
infractions (I don't think Brian Lundeen will ever recover from my Mausebock
- Brian, is your vision still blurry?) I've embarked on an exploration of
more enjoyable, less toxic, new beer styles. I call these the Funky Belgian
Mild (FBM), and the Modern Belgian Porter (MBP), the bastard offspring of
Abbey beers and British dark ales.
The description of these beers is simple: take your standard British dark
mild, southern brown ale, or brown porter, hopped on the low side, and
ferment with a phenolic Belgian yeast. The unique "Belgian" flavours
associated with Trappist and other Belgian yeasts, when blended with roasty,
toasty flavours of British brown, chocolate, and black malts is a most
enjoyable combination. I'm honestly surprised this isn't a style already
(maybe it is, I've never been to Belgium, and only have the BJCP guidelines
to go by). I'm working through a keg now of a brown porter fermented with
Wyeast 3787 (Trappist high gravity), fermented at 70F. It has a pronounced
chocolate/banana aroma, like a liquid chocolate fondue. My next adventure
will be a robust porter fermented with Wyeast 3522 (Ardennes).
Staking claim to new stylistic ground in Merrickville, Ontario,
Drew Avis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:31:17 -0600
From: rlabor@lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: GFCI
Where can I get a 240 volt GFCI at a reasonable price? I have searched the
Grainger catalog and can not find one there. Does anyone have a good
source?
I am convinced now how desirable a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter)
would be in my electric brewery. Thanks to all for the discussion and
excellent descriptions of the theory and operation. Well done gang.
Also thanks to the several respondents to my question about heat transfer
and velocities. It appears that my a/c mechanic had delusions of grandeur.
Happy brewing all..
Ron La Borde
Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor@lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:51:02 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders@paddockwood.com>
Subject: Jolly Rancher Adjuncts
Bob says:
"I was having a sour apple Jolly Rancher this weekend, and a light bulb
flashed over my head. Would this make a different adjunct or what?"
"Or what", definitely "or what!".
I support my claims by the following highly scientific argument:
"Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!"
YOMV... now a sour CHERRY Jolly Rancher on the other hand......
no, no, it's still "Ewwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!"
What would it be? Some strange spurious-pseudo lambic, a splambic perhaps?
cheers,
Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders@paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:48:43 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: a few things
Just got off the phone with Jeff Renner. I was virtually tied to
the center of the HB universe and felt a wave of peace flow over
me. Then I hung up and got yelled at by another faculty
member...back to reality.
A snip from yesterday's Digest...
"Q: Did you do a starch test on just the Laaglander DME, without
crushed grain
present? I suspect you may find no starch. If this is the case,
then the
Laaglanders high FG is due to dextrins, not starches."
Careful here. Both dextrins and starches are oligosaccharides,
and dextrins are formed by the breakdown (chemical or enzymatic
hydrolysis) of starch. Unless we're talking about a beta-limit
dextrin the high FG could be due to both starch and dextrins.
Even some medium molecular weight dextrins will show up positive
for iodine test.
Someone, somewhere asked about how I store yeast sludge. The
answer is, I dump it directly from the bottom of the secondary
fermenter. Yes, you might select a more powdery strain, and no,
it's not perfect. But I brew an average of once a month so I
don't reuse the strains more than twice before dumping (I get
bored with the same genre of beer easily).
Stearnes gave a modified view of what I do, but I do have to
question (1) no starter when you "revive" the yeast, and (2) the
comment not to worry about sanitization. I'm definitely not the
most anal person on this list about sanitizing stuff. No laminar
flow hoods and acrylic boxes for yeast plating, etc. But the
absolute *best* way to improve your odds of creating 5 gallons of
undrinkable beer is to follow these two suggestions every time.
I make a starter to ensure it passes the "smell test" and that I
didn't have a nice contamination issue in the first beer. If it
smells good it goes in the beer. If it smells off in any way I
toss it and get a new culture. Related to #1, if you take care
(no herculean effort necessary) to sanitize the neck of your
carboy as well as the container, lid, screw-top of the vessel
you're storing the yeast in, the odds of having a contaminated
yeast sludge is much lower. I use a spray bottle full of
Star-San (NAYYY) on the neck (inside and out) of the carboy and
my canning jars/lids, etc. I'm willing to wait for two minutes
of contact time to improve my chances.
Lastly (damn, my fingers are tiring), on the subject of yeast
storage/ reculturing: a friend of mine had been reusing a slant
of 1056 for multiple brews, possibly over 10. He started to see
increasing attenuation of his brews, to the point that one APA
got down to 1.002. He really enjoyed the beers and said he even
prefered them to less-attenuated brews of the same grist, and
assured me that there were no off-flavors so the beer couldn't be
contaminated. This guy brews more in a year than I have
cumulatively, so he knows what he's doing. Well, he had the
yeast screened and it was determined that he had quite a healthy
bacterial count in there as well. I believe him 100% when he
said that there were no off-flavors associated with the
fermentations. After all, not all bacteria make bad-tasting
beer--ask the Belgians. But the point of my drivel is that the
likelihood that you're as good as you think you are when it comes
to keeping your beer and resultant yeast sludge clean is lower
than you think. So do take whatever care you can with keeping
things clean. The "force test" that Lou Bonham suggested a few
years back also seems like a good QC method, although I'll be the
first to admit that I've never done it. But I've always wanted
to...
Cheers!
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:08:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Road Frog <road_frog_run@yahoo.com>
Subject: rectangular vs. round, shops, lemons
Nathan whatsa@MIT.EDU typed "Let me tell you why
:)..." and "...allows me to mash anything from a 5
gallon low-gravity beer to a 10 gallon mid-gravity
beer." and "In order for me to get a reasonable grain
bed..."
Let me say I had the same reservations when I went
all-grain. I now think I was stuck in the 5 gallon
rut. I talked to the portable brewery guy (thanks)
http://www.concentric.net/~vsabbe/portabrew.htm and
while I didn't buy what he said at first, I do now.
It is not how little can you get in the cooler, it is
how much! If I'm doing a mild I'll end up with 14
gallons of beer! If I'm making a barley wine, I'll
only end up with 8 gallons. Why spend 6 hours of
brewing to end up with 5 gallons of wit, if I can
spend another 30 minutes and end up with 13 gallons?
Don't want 13 gallons of the same thing? Send it to
me! Or compare two different yeasts, bottle some with
ginger, put coriander in the secondary, use cardamom
on some. Now I admit that doesn't address your mild,
but I'm anything but mild. Bottle half with
jalapenos, or molasses, or ...
Brew shops, I live 90 miles from a "local" shop. When
I'm in a big city I try to drop into any shop I can
find. But the vast majority of my brewing money goes
to one mail order shop.
One other thing:
What is the sugar content of lemons?
On-On,
Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs, TN
=====
"Everytime that I look in the mirror, All these lines
in my face getting clearer." Aerosmith
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:20:15 -0500
From: "Scott W. Nowicki" <nowicki@voicenet.com>
Subject: RE: Braided PVC Tubing
Steve -- That braided PVC tubing is supposedly FDA & USDA compliant, and is
NSF listed for dairy use, but it's temperature range is listed at -5 to
180F. If you're running water through there above that range, I'm sure it's
possible to leach some garden hose flavor out of the tubing. Vinyl tubing
is actually listed at the same range, but possibly the taste it imparts is
less noticeable? As far as cleaning this stuff, both PVC & Vinyl can be
STERILIZED with ethylene oxide, but I have no idea how or if it's really
worth the trouble.
A good source for a wide range of specialty tubing (and the source of this
information) is Cole-Parmer (www.coleparmer.com). I haven't really checked
the website, but the catalog has a great chart and other info appropriate
tubing selection. Of course the high-temp, food grade stuff is pretty
expensive (Norprene, for example, rated to 275F), but if it's a short run it
might be worth it. Have a look at the PTFE or PFA tubing. I haven't used
them myself, but both are listed as chemically inert, non-toxic, virtually
non-porous, and rated to 500F. I think Norprene is cheaper though.
Another (probably even more expensive) option is going with professional
brewers hose, available from brewing equipment suppliers like CDC Brewing
(http://www.cdc-brewing.com/documents/hoses.html), among others.
Lastly, the vinyl tubing from Home Depot IS in fact the same as vinyl tubing
from the brew shops.
Hope this helps.
Scott Nowicki
Holland, Pennsylvania
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:47:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Alexandre Carminati <carminat@email.com>
Subject: ss welding
I wanto to use a cornelius keg as a Lager fermentor. My idea is to weld a 3/8
inch copper tube around it (here I just found SS tubes limited to 10 inches
long pieces
and they are too hard to work). I have made a cold water generator (from an
old water through equip.)and I plan to recirculate this cold water through
this copper tube.
The question is: is possible to weld copper and SS ? I heard that is
impossible due to totally different fusion temps of these elements. I was
wondering about use of lead wire soldering ...
Comments, please
Alexandre
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:02:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven <stevensl@mindspring.net>
Subject: My idea of a homebrewed chiller
I've been kicking around the idea of a chiller myself and the thread has
been quite informative. Ideally I want something thats.
a) small/compact
b) makes cleanup simple/quick/easy
c) works
d) fits into the KISS rule - keep it simple stupid!
I am going to build a device layed out like this:
a line comes out of a condensate pump used for a home AC unit, this might
need to be stronger if need be. It will pump into a coil submerged in a
ice bath, then through a second coil immersed in the wort, connected
by a length of rubber line. The return will dump into the tank built into
the pump. I am thinking of using Propelene Glycol and Water mix for good
heat transfer with limited toxic effects. I can pump all liquid into a
sealed container after use and pump liquid from the container into the
pump to prime it when i start the cooling process. Less Fuss, Less Mess,
Little Waste. Most of this contraption could be contained in a nice
rubbermaid tub or even a el-cheapo small used cooler (igloo or some-such).
any thoughts? comments? obvious problems i'm missing?
Steven St.Laurent ::: stevensl@mindspring.net ::: 403forbidden.net
/"\
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:58:32 -0500
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk@hotmail.com>
Subject: Braided PVC Tubing
>From: "Steve Guernsey" <flight8341@home.com>
>Subject: Braided PVC tubing
It is possible that a pipe material approved for potable water will leach
some material that causes no health risk or is at levels below hazardous
thresholds and yet is detectable by the human senses. It should be noted,
however, there is considerable debate over whether plastic pipe (PVC,PE,
etc.) causes health problems despite its approval. I suspect that running
water through your pipe over a period of time will greatly diminish the
off-flavor effect. I cannot, however, comment on the effect of other liquids
on the piping. (And neither can the authorities approving its use for
potable water, I imagine).
Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:10:55 -0500
From: "Andrew Moore" <abmjunk@hotmail.com>
Subject: Over-Extraction of Specialty Grains
Returning to the subject of my first question, I have a curiosity follow-up
regarding the amount of water used for extracting the flavors and colors
from specialty grains.
The consensus seems to be that there is an upper limit to the quantity of
water to be used for steeping the grains, preventing "over-extraction" and
the introduction of undesireable flavors. What is the mechanics of
over-extraction?
Does the limited amount of water (solvent) lead to an ideal saturated state
for the solution?
Andrew Moore
Richmond, Virginia
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:12:45 -0500
From: "Charles R. Stewart" <Charles@TheStewarts.com>
Subject: Re: Hard Candy as an Adjunct
Someone gave me an Apple Martini this past Saturday, and I remarked about
the similarity to Sour Apple Jolly Ranchers. This was made from vodka,
sweet-and-sour mix, and Pucker liqour. Why don't you try a shot of Pucker
in your beer? It should taste pretty close, except that the sugars won't
ferment and make the brew overly sour. And you won't ruin a whole batch of
perfectly good brew.
Chip Stewart
Charles@TheStewarts.com
http://Charles.TheStewarts.com
Pursuant to United States Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Section
227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail (spam) sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee of US$500.00. The sending or
forwarding of such e-mail constitutes acceptance of these terms.
On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, BOB Rutkowski wrote:
To the collective from St. Louis region.
I was having a sour apple Jolly Rancher this weekend, and a light bulb
flashed over my head.
Would this make a different adjunct or what? I thought of putting some in
boiling water and melting them and maybe adding to the secondary. How much?
When to add?
Any inputs or ideas? Has anyone ever tried this?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:38:03 -0600
From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman"@uhc.com>
Subject: Re: More wide ranging questions
Nils is pondering the following:
>2) I'll be brewing the Honey Porter again, but using the recipe's suggetion
>of Wyeast Irish Ale instead, but this will be the 1st time I'll be using wet
>yeast. Effectively, what's the difference between Wyeast & Whitelabs &
>which would you recommend? I thought the main difference was that the
>Whitelab was immediately pitchable, & Wyeast needed to have a starter made.
>But, the guy at the brewing store said that the Wyeast was immediately
>pitchable too.
There is no difference between the two, outside of them being different strains
of yeast. One thing to remember is that if you are going to go with Wyeast, you
should pay the extra $1.50 for the bigger pack (either XL smack pack or tube) if
you are going to pitch directly into your wort without a starter - the smaller
smack packs simply don't provide enough yeast and often result in
under-attenuation, increased esters, and off-flavors. Underpitching causes MANY
more problems than hot-side aeration & fermenter shape ever could. Just pitching
an adequate amount of healthy yeast and keeping the fermentation temperature in
the lower end of the recommended range will get you well on your way to the best
beer you have ever tasted.
>3) I'm also planning on dry hopping, but the original recipe doesn't call
>for it. What amount of which hops (bittering or aroma) should be added? I
>only have access to pelletized hops if that makes a difference.
Without discussing the merits of dry-hopping a porter (of which there are few -
oops), aroma hops are best for dry-hopping and pellets should be fine. You might
want to boil the pellets for a few minutes, cool the pellet/water mixture, and
then dump the whole mess in your fermenter (to reduce the risk of infection).
Nothing to get too worried about, though, since once your wort is fermented it
is a much less hospitable place for bacteria.
>6) Is there a problem with pitching too much yeast in the wort? I would
>like to try splitting a batch after the boil & use 2 different types of
>yeast to see how they affect the beer. Should I reduce the yeast for these
>2.5 gallon batches?
It is very, very hard to overpitch on a homebrew scale and is very common for
people to underpitch and encounter the problems mentioned above. In fact, I
would still recommend that you go with the larger smack pack or tube for these
smaller batches if you are going to pitch directly. It will give you an idea of
how hard a wort should ferment with an adequate amount of yeast, and your beers
will probably end up a little cleaner.
Dan in Minnetonka
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:08:46 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: keg purging with CO2
Or you can purge once and get 100% CO2 with the following procedure:
Fill the keg with water, and use CO2 to push the water out. Since
there was no air in there to begin with, you end up with nothing but
CO2 in the keg afterwards.
=Spencer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:39:22 -0700
From: "Walker, Randy" <Walkerr@littongcs.com>
Subject: RE: Braided PVC tubing
>We currently have the tubing soaking in water. Has anyone else used this
>type of tubing? How do you get rid of that PVC flavour? If we can't,
could
>anyone recommend a suitable alternative? It has to be semi-rigid however.
>We would prefer to not go to a rigid pipe set up like copper.
You can buy garden-type hose from a marine or RV supply store
which is intended for potable water. It is usually white in color and
made so that it doesn't add any plastic taste/smell to the water.
I don't know how rigid it will be. Remember that a hose that is semi-rigid
at low temp. may get squishy at higher temp.
Although you stated that you don't want a rigid-pipe setup, PVC
is also intended to carry potable water, and is cheap and easy
to work with.
Randy Walker
Salt Lake City, UT
walkerr@littongcs.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3586, 03/21/01
*************************************
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