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HOMEBREW Digest #3585
HOMEBREW Digest #3585 Tue 20 March 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
***************************************************************
THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
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Contents:
Chiller Wars - Thermodynamics skirmish ("Tom Williams")
Braided PVC tubing ("Steve Guernsey")
RE: Super V All-Copper CF Chiller (Rod Prather)
CO2 output question (Rob)
cold break question (Rob)
GFI Clarifications ("Jason Henning")
OT: Hermione ... for anyone else thats wondering (Rob B)
More wide ranging questions ("Hedglin, Nils A")
Is this a new style? (Jeremy Bergsman)
re: Timing Oxygenation ("Stephen Alexander")
Drunk Monk Challenge - Judges DESPERATELY needed! ("Formanek, Joe")
re: igloo vs. gott tuns (rectangular vs. round) (Nathan Matta)
Hard Candy as an Adjunct??? (BOB Rutkowski)
Re: Hermione (Jeff Renner)
GFI/Intent (AJ)
Hermione ("jps")
keg purging with CO2 ("Czerpak, Pete")
ideal CF chiller length? (Thomas A Gardner)
Bummed about my water analysis (Chris Topoleski)
Stuff ("Gustave Rappold")
Jethro Gump ("Jim Hagey")
RE: Winnipeg lager (Brian Lundeen)
yeast slurries ("H Stearns Laseur")
Re: Mashing Laaglander Light DME ("Paul Smart")
mail order vs. local and shipping costs ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
convoluted tubing counterflow chillers (Chuck Dougherty)
re: cheap apartment lager (Don Price)
Fridge vs. GFI (Part II) ("Bob Sutton")
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
* Drunk Monk Challenge Entry Deadline is 3/17/01!
* http://www.sgu.net/ukg/dmc/ for more information
*
* Maltose Falcons Mayfaire Entry Deadline is 3/20/01!
* http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ for more information
*
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 13:24:47 -0500
From: "Tom Williams" <williams2353@hotmail.com>
Subject: Chiller Wars - Thermodynamics skirmish
Ron LaBorde and Ken Johnson raise questions about heat transfer:
>From: Ken & Bennett Johnson <fearless1@abac.com>
>
>.... A lot of water, moving slowly past the inner (hot wort filled) >tube,
>will perform the best. It will also use the least amount of
>chill water!.....
"He said the air moves through so fast, that it cannot absorb the heat =
as well."
OK, the answer to the velocity question depends on the objective. If you
want to maximize the rate of heat transfer between the fluids, then high
velocity is good. The heat transfer coefficient increases with higher
velocities (Reynolds number).
However, if it is efficient use of the cooling medium (i.e., optimum cooling
water pumping power or air conditioner condenser fan power in your A/C
example) then there is some optimum flowrate which balances increasing fluid
film coefficient with cooling medium mass flow.
For cooling wort, I don't believe the cost of the cooling medium flow is an
issue. Pump as much through your cooler as you can, and I challenge you to
detect the incremental cost of the higher flow.
Tom Williams
Dunwoody, Georgia
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:12:16 -0800
From: "Steve Guernsey" <flight8341@home.com>
Subject: Braided PVC tubing
We at Garage Brewing finally got to the point in our brewery expansion that
we were able to run water from HLT to ferment. We decided on the green
light for the 50 gallon brew session next Saturday. However, we noticed an
off flavour in the water of the garden hose variety.
In assembling the new brewery we opted for the braided PVC tubing that can
be found at the Home Depot, which is responsible for that off flavour. It
was sturdy enough to hold up on the input of our pumps (doesn't "squish").
We assumed that since the tubing was intended for residential water
applications that the odor/flavour would simply rinse out. This has not
been the case yet.
We currently have the tubing soaking in water. Has anyone else used this
type of tubing? How do you get rid of that PVC flavour? If we can't, could
anyone recommend a suitable alternative? It has to be semi-rigid however.
We would prefer to not go to a rigid pipe set up like copper. Also, in a
similar vein, is the vinyl tubing they sell at Home Depot, the same as that
sold in your typical brew shop?
Thank Maltose above for the HBD!
Steve G.
PDX
RIDE FAST, SHOOT STRAIGHT, AND SPEAK THE TRUTH.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:19:53 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr@iquest.net>
Subject: RE: Super V All-Copper CF Chiller
Ron,,, You said..
I have been told by a refrigeration
mechanic that if the fan motor in the condenser unit is replaced by a higher
speed motor, that the air moves through the coils too fast and less not more
cooling efficiency will occur
Note the word efficiency. A race car isn't very efficient but it does run
fast. It just means that you will get increased cooling but at a higher cost
due to the higher powered motor... I don't think it will hurt anything..
- --
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
Indianapolis, Indiana
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:29:18 -0600
From: Rob <shrav@swbell.net>
Subject: CO2 output question
I was wondering if there is anyway to calculate how much CO2 is =
generated (roughly) by a 5 gallon wort fermentation process? I know =
that's a pretty broad question, because obviously CO2 is created at =
different rates depending where in the fermentation cycle the wort is =
in.. I thought maybe there was a way to calculate based on the =
difference in starting and final gravities for a given volume of wort.. =
Also, I was wondering, is CO2 the only gas being given off through the =
airlock in this process? thanks
rob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:18:01 -0600
From: Rob <shrav@swbell.net>
Subject: cold break question
Hey all. .got another question.. I was in the bookstore reading brew ware's
equipment book (cool book, btw), and was reading on reasons for dropping
wort below 60 to get a good cold break to drop out haze forming proteins..
for a clearer final product.. This sounds like something i'd be interested
in doing because my first batch (a wheat) i made last month was quite
cloudy.. My question is, if you do drop the wort temp below 60, how long
should you keep it down there, and also do you let it warm back up before
you pitch the yeast, or do you pitch the yeast, cover it up, and let it rise
to normal fermentation temperatures? I'd imagine the latter to prevent
contamination that could occur while waiting for the wort temp to raise to
normal temps..
Thanks
rob
apls@altavista.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 02:00:00 -0500
From: "Jason Henning" <jason@thehennings.com>
Subject: GFI Clarifications
Hello-
There sure seems to be some misunderstanding about GFIs. GFIs simply checks
to make sure that the current on the neutral is no more than 10 milliamps
less than the current on the hot wire. If it is, it trips. Everyone seems to
under stand that part.
Here's were the confusion lies. GFIs are susceptible to tripping with
inductive loads. Inductive loads have windings, examples are motors,
transformers, and ballast. Induction causes the current to shift out of
phase, this shift is called the phase angle. The cosine of the phase angle
equals the power factor. In these situations, amps x voltage does not equal
wattage (as in a purely resistive load), instead, amps x voltage x power
factor equals wattage. Btw, loads with phase angles cheat the power company
because your meter reads wattage.
When the amperage and phase angle are great enough, the GFI thinks the hot
and the neutral are imbalanced and will trip. Yes, it will trip although
there is no true ground fault. For this very reason the National Electric
Code exempts deep freezers, refrigerators, sump pumps, ect from GFI
requirements. While leakage (a small current direct short) will cause a true
ground fault, the phase angle can appear to a GFI to be a ground fault.
OK, so what happened with Bob Sutton's fridge then? I'm guessing it's an
older fridge. It probably has developed some leakage and the leakage has
continued to worsen with time. Perhaps when the power was restored, there
was a spike that compounded the leakage or maybe it was just coincidence.
Anyway, the leakage and the current/phase angle situation combined makes for
what appears to be a 10 milliamp fault to the GFI.
If the fridge is plugged into a GFI, the simple solution is to replace the
outlet with a standard outlet. You could even get fancy and get a single
receptacle outlet. If it's a outlet that's fed by a GFI, other action needs
to be taken. A picture is worth a 1000 words, so see my diagram at
http://thehennings.com/images/brc/gfi.jpg . This method allows you to change
everything without needing to pull any new wire or opening up the walls. All
changes are made in the junction boxes.
Here are some comments that need correcting:
"If the GFCI doesn't trip when a substantial load is applied (try a blow
dryer), it is probably ok." - GFIs don't provide overcurrent protection, you
can run 30 amps through a 15 amp GFI and it won't trip because of the
current. It may fail because it's not designed for 30 amps however.
"The leakage that is causing the GFCI to trip is probably not enough to trip
a circuit breaker." - Circuit breakers do not provide ground fault
protection. Only when the hot wire is drawing in excess of the breaker
rating will it trip.
"The fridge might work just fine on a non-GFI circuit but remember that the
GFI is telling you that there is an inappropriate path." - Not necessarily,
the fridge's current and phase angle may be the only problem.
"[A] GFI outlet provides a redundant safety mechanism to a properly grounded
electrical circuit." - A normal circuit has no GFI protection. A GFI
provides additional protection, not redundant protection.
"In the case of a direct short between the phase and the ground wire within
an appliance there will be a 100% imbalance between the phase and the
neutral i.e. all return current will flow through the ground wire and none
through the neutral. That is exactly what the ground wire is there for so
the GFI does not sense a "ground fault" because there isn't one." - False,
the definition of a ground fault is current flowing to ground whether it be
thru the ground wire or some other path. For example, a $15 outlet checker
with a GFI test button puts a small load (15 milliamp I believe) between the
hot and ground when the button is pressed causing the GFI trip.
And so concludes the lesson...
Cheers,
Jason Henning
http://thehennings.com/
Sometimes we brew in no particular way but our own.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:01:52 +1100
From: Rob B <rbyrnes@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: OT: Hermione ... for anyone else thats wondering
The Hermione reference is from the Harry Potter novels .... nah, I won't
spoil it, read the books :)
Cheers,
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:00:45 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin@intel.com>
Subject: More wide ranging questions
Hello again, time for more questions:
1) I'll be bottling the Honey Porter I made this coming weekend. Somewhere
I read that you can use a mixture of ammonia & water to remove the labels
off beer bottles. But, now I can't find the reference. Anyone know what
dillution mixture would be used?
2) I'll be brewing the Honey Porter again, but using the recipe's suggetion
of Wyeast Irish Ale instead, but this will be the 1st time I'll be using wet
yeast. Effectively, what's the difference between Wyeast & Whitelabs &
which would you recommend? I thought the main difference was that the
Whitelab was immediately pitchable, & Wyeast needed to have a starter made.
But, the guy at the brewing store said that the Wyeast was immediately
pitchable too.
3) I'm also planning on dry hopping, but the original recipe doesn't call
for it. What amount of which hops (bittering or aroma) should be added? I
only have access to pelletized hops if that makes a difference.
4) Any way to reduce the undesirable flatulent affects of beer?
5) A local Caribbean restaurant introduced me to my new favorite drink
called a Raddler. It might be a play on the Snakebite, since it's made with
1/2 Newcastle & 1/2 non-alcoholic Ginger Beer. It's a very refreshing
drink, the ginger beer cuts the alcohol & the alcohol cuts the ginger taste.
It's kind of like a dark Zima. Any ideas on the history of this drink? Is
it really from the Caribbean?
6) Is there a problem with pitching too much yeast in the wort? I would
like to try splitting a batch after the boil & use 2 different types of
yeast to see how they affect the beer. Should I reduce the yeast for these
2.5 gallon batches?
Thanks again,
Nils
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:19:59 -0500
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy@bergsman.org>
Subject: Is this a new style?
Sean Richens proposes a malty, cascade-hopped near lager and wonders if it
is new. It sounds a lot like what a lot of brewpubs turn out as a pale
ale. Yours would be darker, maltier, and hoppier, but basically similar.
It seems to me that many lesser brewpubs ferment their ales very cool to
court the "clean and crisp" beer crowd.
It also reminds me of a strange house brew available in a bar in Palo Alto,
CA. In addition to their house brew they have SNPA and some slightly
colored megabrew. I'll be damned if their house brew doesn't taste like a
blend of the two.
In any case Jeff doesn't claim to have invented the style, so if you name it
and promote its brewing, you will have the same claim to fame as Jeff.
Well, OK, I guess you'll still never the be the center of the homebrewing
universe.
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
------------------
\ | Look! | /
\ | New contact info | /
_\/ ------------------ \/_
jeremy@bergsman.org
http://www.bergsman.org/jeremy
_ _
/\ /\
/ \
/ \
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:44:28 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Timing Oxygenation
Ant Hayes writes ...
>I was at an IGB conference last week. During the yeast session, one of the
>speakers had a bullet point on his overhead stating that 4 - 6 hours post
>pitching is the ideal time to add oxygen.
>
>Has anyone else heard this?
I'd be interested in the explanation they supplied, Ant.
I wrote about the issues regarding O2 addition not so long ago in the
digest.
According to some studies, the first thing yeast do when they land in a
bucket of fresh wort is
1/ ignore the wort sugars !!!
2/ start using their internal carbo reserves to make sterols from squalene
reserves.
I hesitate, especially on a HB scale where the yeast condition at pitching
is so variable from making specific O2 addition recommendations. *IF* the
yeast you pitch are fat and sassy, then if you pitch the recommended levels
in a conventional (10P-15P) wort they will have enough carbos stored to
develop saturation level CO2 and *begin* bubbling before using any wort
sugar. They'll use only a small amount of O2 for the squalene->sterol
production at that time. If the yeast are carbo depleted or (use an iodine
test) they will need to use wort sugars earlier and only slowly develop the
trehalose they need to produce sterols. and you *may* get a delay.
In any case it's extremely likely that by the time you see 1st bubbles,
whether that's 5 hours or 18 hours, your yeast will need O2 to develop any
further sterols and UFAs. Also that earlier O2 *may* not do much good,
especially if they yeast are in less than ideal shape.
I suspect that part of the reason why later O2 addition is recommended is
that commercially re-pitched yeast is not in ideal shape, they may have less
than idea carbo and squalene levels. That is part of the trade-off between
making great beer and making great yeast and not a condemnation of their
methods.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:08:21 -0600
From: "Formanek, Joe" <Jformanek@griffithlabs.com>
Subject: Drunk Monk Challenge - Judges DESPERATELY needed!
Good day to all!!!
This is an urgent request for judges to help out at the Drunk Monk Challenge
in Warrenville, IL on Saturday, March 24th. If you are in the Chicago
region or will be in the region next weekend and would like to help out,
PLEASE contact Judge Cordinator Steve McKenna at mckennst@earthlink net.
Thanks in advance!
Joe Formanek
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:40:43 -0500
From: Nathan Matta <whatsa@MIT.EDU>
Subject: re: igloo vs. gott tuns (rectangular vs. round)
>>>
From: "John Stegenga" <john@stegenga.net>
I know I'm way behind on my reading, but $39 for a 10gal round
cooler just don't make sense. I've been using my 48qt rectangle
Coleman coolers (mash and liquor tank) for almost 2 years now
with no ill effects - and I paid about $28 for the both!
John C. Stegenga, Jr., Woodstock, GA.
<<<
John and others,
As with any brewing device (CCFs included), what's important is your own
satisfaction. I plan on going all-grain this spring, and I have decided to
shell out the extra money for a beverage cooler. Let me tell you why :)...
I am a fairly novice brewer, still stretching my hobbying muscles.
Currently, I brew 5 gallon batches of a wide variety of styles, low and
high gravity. However, I anticipate moving up to 10 gallon batches of
some beers in the near future. Ideally, then, I would like a mash/lauter
tun that allows me to mash anything from a 5 gallon low-gravity beer to
a 10 gallon mid-gravity beer.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the most important
factors when choosing a cooler are 1) ease of conversion for beer use
and 2) depth of the grain bed. Since most coolers are equivalent in
regards to ease of conversion, I have focused on the depth of the grain
bed.
In order for me to get a reasonable grain bed (minimum 4 inches)
on a low-gravity 5 gallon batch, I would have to use a 5 gallon cooler,
which makes mashing grains for a 10 gallon batch pretty tricky.
However, the beverage coolers have a much smaller footprint,
which allows me to have a decent grain bed in a much larger cooler.
The 10 gallon Gott or Igloo coolers are sized such that I can mash
the grains for any 5 gallon and most 10 gallon beers while staying
within a reasonable grain bed depth (4-12 inches).
Yes, the beverage coolers are substantially more expensive than
the rectangular coolers. However, I believe that the added versatility
is worth far more than the $20 it will cost me.
Nathan
========================================
Nathan Matta
Fuzzy Beer Home Brewery
Randolph, MA, US
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:58:53 -0800 (PST)
From: BOB Rutkowski <bob--o@excite.com>
Subject: Hard Candy as an Adjunct???
To the collective from St. Louis region.
I was having a sour apple Jolly Rancher this weekend, and a light bulb
flashed over my head.
Would this make a different adjunct or what? I thought of putting some in
boiling water and melting them and maybe adding to the secondary. How much?
When to add?
Any inputs or ideas? Has anyone ever tried this?
Tight Lines to all.
Check out my website at:
WWW.HOMESTEAD.COM/BOBS_PAGE_FISHING/PAGE1.HTML
or get me at voicemail at:
1-888-Excite2 extension: 618-239-9131
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:35:28 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Hermione
Mike Vachom <MVachow@newman.k12.la.us> of New Orleans writes
>Okay, Jeff. You got me on the Hermione reference. The Hermione of The
>Winter's Tale <snip>
Wrong Hermione. OK, boys and girls, who can help Mike out? Think
Butter Beer (that's the topical connection). Surely some of you have
read at least one of the four volumes of this recent best of
literature for young people (and old) to have been published in years.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:44:22 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: GFI/Intent
I think I'll have to concede to Forrest on the details of the single
phase GFI. I made the mistake of projecting my experience which is
mostly with 3-phase GFI's to single phase.
Now where I violently disagree with Forrest is as to whether discussion
of such things belongs here. It unquestionably does. If it's found in a
brewery or homebrewing situation it can and should be discussed here. We
discuss all maner or arcane intricacies of yeast metabolism, the
physical chemistry of pH measurement, the relationship of fermenter
aspect ratio and so on and on. I learned something from this particular
discussion and hope others did too. Those who disagree with this
viewpoint have the option of using their pagedown key. I don't begrudge
the space devoted to extract brewers even though it is of no interest to
me and I hope the extract brewers won't begrudge the space devoted to
tech talk.
A. J.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:49:36 -0500
From: "jps" <segedy@gsinet.net>
Subject: Hermione
Referance to Hermione is not all that obscure. Anyone with kids who read
recognize it from Harry Potter.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:43:12 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak@siigroup.com>
Subject: keg purging with CO2
If anybody purges their corny kegs after filling them with beer to get ride
of some to all of the air in the headspace after closing them up here are
some numbers to help you out.
I assume using CO2 at 10 psi since that is about the pressure that I
normally have available in my manifold unless I disconnect all the other
kegs first. Also assumed in no solubility of oxygen in beer.
1 purge takes you to 75% of original oxygen level.
2 purges takes you to 50% of original O2.
3 takes you to 25% ......
5 takes you to 10% ........
6 takes you to 4% .......
9 takes you to 1% .......
14 takes you to 0.1% ......
If you use higher pressures of CO2, it helps to decrease the # purges - for
example using 20 psi CO2 will require 3 purges to get to 10% of original
concentration.
I turned up this info in a recent trade publication for ChemEng if you want
to see the easy equations.
Chem. Eng. Prog. Feb. 2001. page 57 to 61. author is G. Kinsley. title is
"Properly Purge and Inert Storage Vessels".
Thought you all might be interested. My normal purge is about 4. I've
never gone higher or tried lower really. perhaps a test especially for
longer aging brews with using more purges.
Pete czerpak
albany, NY
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 2001 09:30:34 -0800
From: Thomas A Gardner <Thomas.A.Gardner@kp.org>
Subject: ideal CF chiller length?
I am about to build a counterflow chiller. I got the Phil's phittings and
figured the longer the better, right? Then I thought about using 5/8" or
3/4" copper tubing as the outer tube and curling it up, rather than garden
hose. Then I saw all this info about the Super V. Then I thought,
"these seem pretty efficient, maybe I should ask what's the shortest
I can make it?" My winter cold water is in the 40's, the summer is ok,
but I don't know the exact temperature. So what do y'all say? Tom
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:37:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Topoleski <chris_topoleski@yahoo.com>
Subject: Bummed about my water analysis
The following is a readers digest version of the four
page month by month spreadsheet I found on my
aqueduct's website. I've noticed a slight change in my
beers in the past year that I have filtered the water
instead of boiling it.
Chloride: 20.8ppm
Nitrate: 2ppm
Nitrite: <.3ppm
Sulfate: 40ppm
Calcium: 38.5ppm
Copper: 18.4ppm
Iron: <10ppm
Magnesium: 9.1ppm
Potassium: 3.1ppm
Sodium: 19.5ppm (but this is only based on a month of
12ppm and one of 27ppm. Surface water is avg of 30ppm)
pH: 8.2
Alkalinity: 76.4ppm
Chlorine: 2.6ppm
Total Hardness: 135.4ppm
Now, as I see it, the chloride is low, the calcium is
low, the sodium could be low, but I don't have enough
real info, but the pH is pretty good. I figure that
for most of my beers, the grains in the mash will take
care of the pH. This has been confirmed by pH
measurements. It is always between 5.3 and 5.8, but
does change with the season.
I filter the water as it stands right now because it
removes the chlorine (we just switched to chloramine).
I wonder how much stuff that I am low on already is
further filtered out in the process.
Any comments on what to do with this water? I usually
brew British styles, and it does not look very good
for that at all.
Thanks in advance for your help.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:5:48 -0500
From: "Gustave Rappold" <grappold@earthlink.net>
Subject: Stuff
I had the same experience with Wyeast sweet mead, I was looking for a
little honey taste, but when it stopped at 1.030, I tasted it and
immediately added 2 packs of champagne yeast I had sitting around.
Definitely not an award winner, but it made it drinkable. I have had better
success with their dry mead strain.
As far as local v. mail order, I try to mix it up. Both are important to
the craft in their own way.
How to lager large batches? Well, I also have a dorm fridge (currently
for yeast and hops) and a regular fridge for lagering. This is great for a
single batch, but when I reuse the yeast, the problem becomes how do I
maintain both primary and lagering temps for the two batches now that
spring is here? I think I see a fridge-powered room in my future. Speaking
of fridges (all hail FridgeGuy), I got a glass display fridge from the
local rec center. They were getting a little tired of having to have the
old unit recharged every month, but it ran fine so I took it off their
hands. Can I leak test this unit? I have access to an auto shop that
repairs car air-conditioners, is the equipment and refrigerant the same? Do
I need to get the make and model of the fridge to answer this question?
"By the time
I get all these devices and their controllers plugged in, electricity will
be
so expensive I will have to resort to digging a cave. For this, I will have
to have a nice Spaten on hand."
I'm with ya, brother. Here on Long Island, our electric rates are second
only to Hawaii.
Gus
- --- Gustave Rappold
- --- grappold@earthlink.net
- --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:13:50 -0500
From: "Jim Hagey" <hagey@attglobal.net>
Subject: Jethro Gump
Hi all,
Anybody seen or heard from Jethro? He hasn't posted since before he moved
from Ames to Des Moines.
I know you're busy, Rob, but I'm getting ready to bottle that big bad
barleywine from last October and a few of the bottles have your name on them
and I can't get them to you ;o( Or are you still living at the same place
and commuting to the capital. Let me know.
Jim Hagey
Beer and Loafing in Kalamazoo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:11:04 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Winnipeg lager
Brew club mate Sean Richens (who has become increasingly insistent upon
going by the name Elvira at club meetings) has a dream:
> I set
> myself the goal of formulating a beer from scratch with the
> goal of avoiding
> any existing style. I will call it "Winnipeg Lager"
> The blurb goes: "a moderate gravity lager, with lots of Cascade hop
> character, and a combination of German and English style maltiness".
> Numerically, I'm aiming at 10 SRM, 31 IBU. My target gravity
> is 1038, but
> the "commercial" version would be the usual 5% ABV.
First off, Sean, it sounds as if your style is a slightly cleaned up version
of that overhopped abomination that is Left Coast pale ale. As if Winnipeg
doesn't have enough nasty things associated with it (mosquitoes, 9 months of
winter), now you would tie in our city's good name with Cascade hops? Get
thee hence to the pit of eternal damnation (aka River City brewpub) for such
a suggestion. If there is beer in hell, it will surely be hopped with
Cascades.
Now, your goal is a laudible one, but for a true Winnipeg lager, why not
search out the wild hops that grow in our province. I'm told there are some
along the riverbank behind our place. The native Manitoba hop has a proud
history of commercial usage here, and I think it behooves us to resurrect
that tradition if we hope to think of this as a truly local beer. Dominion
Malting malts, native hops, and water straight out of the Red, as muddy as
you can get it. Now that's a Winnipeg Lager! I'll leave the smoked goldeye
addition to the secondary as an option for the truly adventurous.
Cheers,
Brian
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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:20:41 -0600
From: "H Stearns Laseur" <h_stearns_laseur@email.mobil.com>
Subject: yeast slurries
<From Steve Taylor, My question is to Mark Sedam who says that he keeps yeast>
<slurries up to 4 mths, now beg my pardon but i am still learning , but Marc>
<by slurrie do you mean that you pour off the liquid & keep the semi liquid>
<thicker solids on the bottom & store these in your fridge in & i quote, a>
Steve,
I can't answer for Mark, but I just spoon a little of the sludge paste off the
bottom of my primary fermentor and fill the original container that the yeast
came in (if you saved it otherwise use any small container with a lid). I also
make sure that some of the liquid fermented beer gets in the container with the
yeast. I fill the container with about three quarters yeast and one quarter
liquid. Then tighten the container so it is air tight, otherwise it will leak. A
good container size usually stores about 6 teaspoons of yeast, which is enough
to start another five gallon batch. I've kept six different yeast samples of ale
and lager in the refrigerator at least one year with excellent results. I've
made several five gallon batches of beer from the original yeast sample with the
yeast stored around two to three months between pitching. As I said, the longest
period between pitching the stored yeast was approximately one year. Just take a
sample out of the refrigerator and pitch it in your wort. I don't worry too much
about sanitation. I wash a container but do not disinfect it with anything. I
figure there is enough alcohol in the sludge and beer to keep it clean for
future use. It seems to have worked to date.
Cheers
Stearns
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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:04:19 -0500
From: "Paul Smart" <pablo@maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Mashing Laaglander Light DME
Hi Steven,
I have a couple of unanswered questions:
>Original Hypothesis - Laagalnder Light DME contains unconverted starches
>that result in high final gravity. These starches could be converted by
>diastatic enzimes. This high final gravity was seen with a batch of IPA
>which had a terminal gravity of 1.020 after two months.
>Test 1 - minimash of 1/4 cup laaglander light DME with a tablespoon of 2
row
>Malt. Results - Initial starch test showed positive. After mashing, the
>starch test showed negative. This test was run twice with the same results.
>My conclusion from these experiments is that Laaglander Light DME, which is
>noted for having a high percentage of non-fermentable starchees, can have
>those starches converted to fermentable sugars by mashing.
Q:
Did you do a starch test on just the Laaglander DME, without crushed grain
present? I suspect you may find no starch. If this is the case, then the
Laaglanders
high FG is due to dextrins, not starches.
Q:
What was your mash temperature? I suspect you tended to the lower end
of the temp range (152F? Lower?)
I don't used Laaglander myself, (I used Munton&Fison in my extract days)
but know of several people who do, that will benefit from your experiment.
Thanks for sharing your results!
Pablo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:32:28 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders@paddockwood.com>
Subject: mail order vs. local and shipping costs
Mike in New Orleans says, with regard to mail order vs. local:" You could
probably beat the shipping costs on a 50 lb. bag of malt even if you had to
drive 2 or 3 hours each way to get to a retail operation."
I have to disagree. 2-3 hours each way in my little '87 Honda Accord is
about 1.5 tankfuls of gas at about $35 per fill. (Excuse my rough
calculations, I know some would prefer that I adjust for headwinds, asphalt
conditions, the rubber wear on the tires increasing the revolutions required
on the return trip...but I save my retentiveness for beer making.)
I can ship a 25kg sack of malt from Saskatoon SK, (just above North Dakota,
eh) to Halifax on the East Coast for a shipping cost of about $28.
Unfortunately it's not much less if I want to ship it to Regina, which is
within the 2-3 hour proposed range. But add in the 6 hour drive and the
gas, and it makes more sense to ship. Even if you are only 2-3 hours away.
If you ship 4 sacks of malt, then it may be worth a 6 hour drive. And of
course with shipping you don't get to hang out in the brewshop and talk
beer. A brewshop is perhaps the only store more fun than a hardware store!
Bill asks about the differences between local and mail order shops. I can
hardly claim an unbiased opinion here, but I agree with the general
sentiment: support your local shops! Provided, of course, that they support
you: many in the US are fortunate to have brew shops that stock all-grain
supplies. Not so here in Canada. Most suppliers stock tins, a few extracts,
a few have a small selection of stale specialty malt, and a few sad stale
hops. So I have a caveat: ask your local shops for the supplies you need. If
they cannot or will not carry them, then support a good mail-order shop.
Apologies to HBDers who have heard it all before, but I must rant!
<condensed rant>
Paddock Wood started because there were no local shops catering to serious
all-grainers. We have discovered that similar situations exist all across
Canada. If it weren't so, we would be out of business. We have no desire to
compete with other cities' local shops. Homebrewers saving a few bucks
ordering mail-order can doom their local shop. But until such time as local
shops in Canada carry more than kits, Paddock Wood will have a growing
mail-order business. I get immense satisfaction at enabling someone in
Vancouver or Halifax to brew great beer, and even more satisfaction at
bringing the same great ingredients to far flung towns and remote villages
like Iqaluit, Baffin Island, NWT, or Toronto.
I wish good supplies were to be had everywhere, but until that time, pick a
shop, local or mail-order and work with them to get what you need. You will
gain the biggest impact in what is available by concentrating your brewing
dollars. Brewers that shop widely for the best deals are not always making
the best decisions for the hobby. If your local shop stocks a malt that you
can get cheaper by $5 a sack by mail, BUY LOCAL. You'll spend a lot more
than $5 if your local goes under and you need some brewing item. On the
other hand if your local doesn't stock something that you deem essential,
and will not stock it, move your brewing dollars until they do. If you
simply mail-order in the one item, there is no inducement for the shop to
change, and no inducement for the mail order outfit to continue a wide range
of products either. Move all your business to the shop that offers the best
service, local or not. (A shop does not live on Peat Smoked Malt alone...).
</condensed rant>
cheers,
Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders@paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:49:13 -0600
From: Chuck Dougherty <jdougherty@wlj.com>
Subject: convoluted tubing counterflow chillers
All of this talk about counterflow chillers over the past few weeks has
finally inspired me to upgrade from my immersion chiller. I am interested
in hearing what anyone has to stay about the convoluted tubing chillers, and
wonder if anyone has any hard data comparing them to regular tubing
chillers. Are there any issues other than efficiency/length I should
consider with regard to this choice?
Also, I am planning to recycle my immersion chiller (50 foot coil of 1/2
inch copper) as a prechiller. (The tap water down here easily hits 80
degrees in the summer.) Are there any potential problems I should be
looking out for? Thanks in advance for your help.
Chuck Dougherty
Little Rock, Arkansas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:15:32 -0500
From: Don Price <dprice1@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: re: cheap apartment lager
Try building a fermentation chiller (http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer).
No match for a real fridge or freezer but cheap. I built one a few
months ago and just finished my first lager. I used the Wyeast 2112
California Lager yeast since is is good up to 65 F which is easy to
keep in the chiller. A few more weeks of ageing and I'll know how it
turned out.
Don
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:29:25 -0500
From: "Bob Sutton" <Bob.Sutton@fluor.com>
Subject: Fridge vs. GFI (Part II)
I want to thank everyone who responded to my fridge's GFI problems... and
its related electrical code and safety issues interpretations.
I followed several of the troubleshooting suggestions I received. First I
plugged a hair dryer into the troublesome outlet, and it ran fine on the
highest settings. Then I strung up a 100-ft extension cord from a second GFI
circuit in the master bath - and plugged in the fridge... "click"... that
circuit broke as well. For comparison, I hooked the hairdryer up to the
extension cord and it ran fine on the second circuit.
>From this, the problem appears to be with my fridge.. thanks to the "Fridge
Guy", I have some additional troubleshooting suggestions to follow once I
get my hands on a multimeter.
Several folks suggested I use a conventional (non-GFI) receptacle. Maybe I'm
anal, but if two independent GFI devices each trip when I plug in the
fridge, I get a bit nervous circumventing what seems to be a "fault" of some
sort...
In the meantime, my carboy is resting comfortably in the confines of our
kitchen fridge. My loving wife has been very supportive... until I mentioned
that lagering could require six months...
Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays Technology Today
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #3585, 03/20/01
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