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HOMEBREW Digest #3559
HOMEBREW Digest #3559 Sat 17 February 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
***************************************************************
THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
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http://www.northernbrewer.com 1-800-681-2739
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Contents:
updated shameless plug (KMDruey)
Nitrogen freeze dried hops???? ("Mark L. Ellis - Glacier Design")
RE: dunkelweizen color , also Yeast pitch temp ("Steven Parfitt")
re:sanitation technique questions (Jim Adwell)
California V - WLP ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
bottling with LME (Jeremy Lakey)
Looking for advice on brewpots ("Neil K")
Alder wood ("Neil K")
Re: Alcohol Metabolism (Demonick)
Beer in Ireland (Bill Frazier)
False bottoms ("Bill Frazier")
Sinking hops (Tom Galley)
Brew clubs (Beaverplt)
Dropping at 14 hours, I mean really dropping ("Bruce Garner")
Dominion Millennium/Dunkelweiss ("Jim Busch")
Yates failings as a brewer (craftbrewer)
Re: dunkelweizen color (Jeff Renner)
Re: Oxyclean & PBW (David Lamotte)
Removing Labels ("Arnie Wierenga")
History help ("Bob")
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
* Bluebonnet Brew-Off Entry Deadline is 2/25/01!
* http://welcome.to/bluebonnet for more information
*
* Drunk Monk Challenge Entry Deadline is 3/17/01!
* http://www.sgu.net/ukg/dmc/ for more information
*
* Maltose Falcons Mayfaire Entry Deadline is 3/20/01!
* http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ for more information
*
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 01:04:37 EST
From: KMDruey@aol.com
Subject: updated shameless plug
My ebay auctions for brewing equipment end at around 4:00 pm pst if anyone is
interested. Proceeds go to the Eric Fouch Siebel Scholarship Fund to help
someone you love become a better homebrewer, thanks:
*10 Gallon Aluminum Kettle with 3500W Heating Element & Controls
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558768536
*RIMS Copper Heat Chamber with 4500W Element
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558772452
*21.5 Qt Pressure Cooker
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558779305
*Stir Plate
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=559364461
*Hsu's Lactobacillus/Pediococcus Medium (HLP) 350 grams
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558774859
*Hanna Dissolved Oxygen Test Kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=558776857
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:13:50 +1100
From: "Mark L. Ellis - Glacier Design" <mark@glacierdesign.net>
Subject: Nitrogen freeze dried hops????
G'day Brewers,
Hey has anyone know or played around with freeze drying hops with liquid
nitrogen. I can possibly see some advantages for extract brewers in that the
hops would shatter into dust before becoming solution when added into the
wort. Any opinions/comments..
Regards
Mark E. in Southern Oz
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:28:08 -0500
From: "Steven Parfitt" <the_gimp98@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: dunkelweizen color , also Yeast pitch temp
Rama Asked about D-weizen color:
>I've been trying to put together a dunkel weizen recipe, but am having
>trouble finding a suitable source of color.
snip
>Dark wheat malt isn't available from my preferred vendor, if that was a
>possibility. Any suggestions on getting the color....
snip
Why not just roast a small portion of your grain bill in a oven to get the
color?
On pitching yeast above 80F (26.67C) - I do a lot of Raisen Bread baking
around Christmas. I always make a starter from dry yeast by pitching it in
one cup water at 110F and a tablespoon of honey. I have NEVER had problems
with the yeast taking off when doing this.
(1) Now I realize that the yeast we use is not bakers yeast, but it is still
in the same family of critters. So, I don't see why pitching at 85F should
kill the yeast. Not that I'm advocating this, as the time to cool to 70F
would be extended, and may promote off flavors.
(2) Repitching with a second yeast shouldn't be a problem once the temp is
down to say 75F.
Steven - Ironhead Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:58:11 -0500
From: Jim Adwell <jimala2@ptd.net>
Subject: re:sanitation technique questions
Benjy Edwards" <rdbedwards@hotmail.com> writes:
>I was wondering how many of us use a bathtub to do most of our
>sanitizing. Ever since I started brewing almost 5 years ago I've been using
>a bathtub for all the sanitizing vessels (fill, stand, drain) on brew day,
>even though my brew site has switched from the kitchen to the outdoors.
>> Does anyone else do this?
Um. no, never used the bathtub for sanitizing perposes, except for
sanitizing myself. If I filled up the bathroom with brewing paraphenalia,
SWMBO would almost certainly object, loudly. No, thanks.
> How does everyone dispose of the sanitizer
>if you brew outdoors (I don't think dumping iodophor, bleach, etc. on the
>driveway/lawn is such a good idea!)?
I dispose of iodophor and bleach solutions ( and spent yeast and trub, in
fact pretty much every brewing waste except spent grain) by flinging them
onto my lawn from a distance; hasn't hurt anything yet, except my back.
Actually, I think that the dregs from my primary fermenter are responsible
for the miraculous growth of grass in a previously bare patch in my front
lawn. Others have reported that they spread their spent brewing grains in
the yard with no bad consequences. I haven't tried this yet; I dump the
mashtun contents in a pile well away from the house and hope the wind is
blowing wrong way ( actually, I'm kidding, it's a compost heap, and doesn't
smell bad at all).
> Oh- another quick question - does everybody just allow sanitized
>items to drip dry or do people use paper towels (or something else) to dry
>vessels, instruments, etc.?
I let the stuff dry out on it's own and if I'm in a hurry I use the "Dr.
Pivo Canine Method", i.e. shake wet item vigourously, thus flinging
moisture away from item and onto surroundings. Don't try this with large
glass items, however. Seems to me that if you wipe the sanitizer off with
paper towels or something you run the risk of reintroducing bacteria onto
it, not to mention spending a lot of time doing it. If you leave a few
drops in or on something it's no big deal and won't hurt anything.
Cheers, Jim
stolen sig o' th' day:
To state the obvious, a dictum is not a holding and a Dopp dictum may be no
more than buzznacking. - US Appeals Court
Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:42:51 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@merck.com>
Subject: California V - WLP
Darrell wrote of White Labs Platinum strain - California V:
>I am pleased with the WhiteLabs California V Ale yeast. I used it in 3
>successive batches (all-grain) and all have worked well so far.
>I think that this Platinum series "California V" is good stuff...
I too was very pleased with this strain. Only a few hours after pitching a
2 L starter made from the vial, the primary fermentation took off like a
rocket! It dropped a barleywine from 1.110 OG down to 1.022 FG in 3 weeks
time. Maybe even sooner - I've been too busy for brewing lately. This %
attenuation is slightly outside of the range listed by Whitelabs and would
make one think that there was something else in there helping out the yeast
(and maybe even ruining my beer). But the beer tasted fine at racking.
So that's my data point. Quick starter and very good attenuator. Since I
hopped the crap out of this brew, we won't have a good evaluation on the
flavor contributions until about... Oh... October!?!?!?
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen A. Pannicke
glen@pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:02:45 -0600
From: Jeremy Lakey <Jeremy@imc2.com>
Subject: bottling with LME
I've not seen anyone mention bottling with LME... other that vague
rememberances of someone saving a litre of wort to do so with... I'd like to
boil up some LME & water to prime my beer with as i have a ton of it, and no
DME...
thoughts?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:11:38 -0500
From: "Neil K" <neilk27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Looking for advice on brewpots
Like many others, I have been lurking for several weeks and have learned a
lot from all of you. Now I would like to draw from collective wealth of
experience here before I spend a fortune on a brewpot that I eventually plan
to use as a mash/lauter tun.
I have pretty much decided on a Vollrath stainless steel 38 litre pot. First
question: is there a big difference between their economy model and the next
model up with the aluminum pad on the bottom? (I'm not talking about the
top-of-the-line Tri-Ply model which is WAY too expensive and is probably
overkill.) I'll be using it on an electric kitchen stove over two elements.
(I know, I know, but I have no place to use propane outside.)
I plan to install a 3/8" stainless ball valve through a full coupling welded
into the pot. For now I'll simply drain my wort through the coupling with a
stainless scrubbie pad as a filter. But I do want to add a false bottom or
equivalent to use both in the boil to filter hops AND as a mash/lauter tun.
How high should I install the coupling for maximum versatility later on? I
imagine if I use a false bottom the height of the hole doesn't matter as
long as it sits under the bottom. What's the best set-up for mashing and
boiling?
I also want to install a Trend thermometer via a 1/2" half-coupling. I guess
a third up the height of the pot is OK for mashing? How do I avoid the
problem another poster had not getting his thermometer to line up properly
when it's screwed in?
I'm sure these questions have been answered countless times already here but
I'm a newbie so I appreciate any advice you could offer.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:17:41 -0500
From: "Neil K" <neilk27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Alder wood
Someone recently asked getting alder wood for smoking. A good source for all
kinds of hardwoods is Barbecues Galore, at http://www.bbqgalore-online.com
but most places that sell grills and barbecue equipment also sell different
woods.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:35:32 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick@zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Alcohol Metabolism
From: "A. J." <ajdel@mindspring.com>
>The stuff that your grandmother snuck into your gramdfather's coffee to
>control his drinking (disulfiram) blocks the action of aldhehyde
>dehydrogenase thus allowing acetaldehyde to pool. Some orientals are
>genetically deficient with respect to this enzyme which is why many of
>them can't drink.
Actually, my grandmother was the lush - but that's another story.
I always thought that it was a lack of alcohol dehydrogenase that was the
reason some individuals of some racial groups, particularly asians, had
trouble with alcohol. I know a Japanese woman who gets drunk, and I mean
fully drunk, on a single glass of wine. I also know a Chinese gentleman
who turns BRIGHT red after a couple of beers. Both of these effects are
fast.
I know that A.J. was far from his references, so if I've been wrong all
this time, and it's happened before in other venues, I'd appreciate
verification.
Thanks,
Domenick
Seattle, WA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 01:53:30 -0600
From: Bill Frazier <billfrazier@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Beer in Ireland
Wilf says to stick with the Guinness_its the real original irish stout. I
can't argue with that advise but you should also try the great red Irish
ale ~ Smithwicks. When you order don't ask for a Smith Wicks. They will
know instantly you are a tourist. Ask for a Smiticks, pronounced as a
single word. They may smile and wonder how you mastered the proper way
order this wonderful red beer.
Regards,
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:40:48 -0600
From: "Bill Frazier" <billfrazier@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: False bottoms
I received a very nice catalog from McNichols with about every type of
perforated metal possible. For those that need false bottoms for keg
boilers, etc you should get this catalog. Go to www.mcnichols.com and ask
for a Master Catalog 2001. They say they ship worldwide so brewers in the
UK could possibly use this as a source. I really don't need any of this
stuff but the catalog makes you want to order anyway.
Regards,
Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas (USA)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:25:41 -0600
From: Tom Galley <Tom.Galley@Halliburton.com>
Subject: Sinking hops
I must admit that I have always taken the simpler approach to most things.
I have always dry-hopped, whether pellets, plugs or (usually) loose, just by
dumping the hops into the secondary. They always sink after a few days.
They're easy to wash out of the carboy fermenter, although a bit messy on
clean up. I use a slotted copper racking cane, and never have much siphon
problem. Works for me anyway.
Regards,
Tom
Houston
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:45:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Brew clubs
Does anyone know of or belong to a brew club in the
Milwaukee, WI area. I've been brewing for a while by
myself and I'm getting lonely.
=====
Jerry "Beaver" Pelt
That's my story and I'm sticking to it
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:58:57 -0600
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner@mailbag.com>
Subject: Dropping at 14 hours, I mean really dropping
Preface:
Nathan, who posts often, and I did a 10 gallon batch of APA that we
oxygenated at pitching and at 14 hours into fermentation in an open top half
barrel fermenter. Nathan cited Dr. Cone as his source for this 14 hour
aeration. It's known as dropping. We used pure oxygen and a stone. The beer
is now 5 weeks old. It turned out extremely well and is improving with age.
Now the question:
Last night I did a solo 5 gal batch of dry stout. I aerated in the same open
fermenter with a stainless wire whisk. I didn't feel I got as much oxygen in
as I would of liked. I covered with a draped sheet of 17 in plastic wrap as
always, went to bed and awoke to find a nice rocky head. This time at 14
hours I sanitized an 8 gal container and poured the wort back and forth
between the vessels four times. After the first pour I cleaned out the hop
trub from the fermenter. I poured from about 2-3 feet high. I got a about 4
inches of foam as the CO2 was agitated out of the wort. Assuming that
dropping is a valid technique I incorporated plenty of oxygen into the wort.
But here is the question. Are outgassing of CO2 and hop trub removal good at
14 hours?
I know none of you like to speculate on matters like this, but I am
interested in opinions.
Bruce Garner
Madison, WI
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:27:40 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim@victorybeer.com>
Subject: Dominion Millennium/Dunkelweiss
Mike comments on the wonderful Millennium Ale brewed by our friends
at Old Dominion in Ashburn, Va. He notes that the smoke notes are
just mellowing on the Feb 98 version now. While I dont doubt that
Mike might get some smoke notes in this brew, Millennium ale has
never been brewed with smoked malt. I would also advise against
using peat smoked malt even if you do wish to brew a smokey strong
ale, much better success using Bamberg style Beechwood smoked malts
IMO. As for the 100 BU noted, I will comment that this is a paper
calculation only, I dont really believe that the utilization numbers
support 100 BUs from a chemical analysis. Utilization vastly
decreases as wort OG increases and if memory is correct, Millennium
would need to achieve a miraculous utilization of 35% to get to 100
BUs. (BTW, Old Horizontal is probably more bitter than Millennium
and its around 85 BUs, but again not actually measured, estimated).
As for Rauchmalz in general, Ive had fine success brewing smoked
Porter with predominantly Rauchmalz as well as Doppelbock at Victory
with a touch of Rauchmalz (less than 5% for the Doppel).
As for Rama looking for color malts to use in Dunkelweizen... I might
suggest looking into the caraWheat malz and carafa malz sold by
Weyermann in Bamberg. Specifically dehusked carafa malz is smooth
with tons of coloring potential without the burnt harshness of that
nasty black patent malt. And Id say a 1/4 lb of black patent has no
business in any beer I want to quaff unless we are talking about 10
BBL brewlength! (can you tell I dont like black patent much?) YMMV.
Prost!
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:38:22 +1100
From: craftbrewer@telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Yates failings as a brewer
/
G'day All
/
Well, the rain is coming down quicker than a newly wed's
panties. (And yes Phil I am talking about yours in particular).
Monsoon Trough has set in, and we are getting tropical showers
everyday. Lets see on the rain meter, a good 2 .5 inches last night.
And now tropical cyclones are starting to pop up all over the place.
Yep the wet has arrived.
/
And speaking of wet, well the Mouth from the South yet again
forces me out of my hole. Hear I am, looking after world beer
affairs, and of course the OZ-CBD, not to mention finshing
kegging My Kinda Kolsch, when this Mungo man starts bragging
about his great pilsner. Now we all know of course its not HIS
pilsner, not by a long shot. Its Dr Pivo's. Phil is quick to take
credit on anyones brews given half a chance. Thanks to Pats
warning, I was able to intercept a posting from him about his
bragging that my Tropical Flower Wit was his creation. And a
couple of months ago he had a similar go at my Rainforrest
Rauch, claiming it was his.
/
But it was the OZ-CBD that showed this mans true colours.
When we started it we set the bar very low. Didn't want to go
over Phils "great brewing skills". so the minimum requirement
was originally, you must have brewed a beer. Well Steve
Alexander quickly subcribed, but just as quick disappeared
when he realised that Aussies in general have a proposity to go
content free at the drop of a hat. But strangely no Phil. then of
course, he has never actually made a beer on his own, so we
lowered the bar.
Hey we want people with an basic understanding of brewing.
Well Dr Pivo quickly appeared, but soon found we wanted real
beer knowledge, not puso-beer making through some distorted
view of the brewing world. Unlike Americans we aussies aren't
that gullible. But hey still no Phil. So how low do we go.
/
very low it seems. Anyone who has tried a beer can subscribe.
Well out he came in all his glory. First question he asked was
about 'his' Pilsner. Had no diacetyle. What was his great solution.
Yes that right, a good dollup of butter into the keg was his solution.
Great one mate. But it gets better.
/
he then writes about his beer is not carbonated and wont
carbonate up naturally. We tell him to keg it and gas it up that way.
So then he says it a bit acedic and he is worried about infection,
and the lacework isn't right, but its drinkable. Well Phil tries to
con the digest with all these mashing temperatures etc, but what
he didn't know was his doctor is also on OZ-CBD. He chimes in
and says " Phil thanks for the sample, didn't think it was beer
but the lab says it resembles a beer" . Well yes I can understand
Phil trying to knock off his doctor, as he told me he had thick
fingers, but when the doctor said "Phil wheres the urine sample
you are susposed to send."
/
Now Phil did say
>>>He packed up his bat and ball, announcing he no longer
wanted to be a small fish in a big pond, but rather a big fish in
a little pond!<<<<
/
Now Phil up my way the biggest fish of all are found in the
smallest ponds. Explain why we keep losing tourists all the time.
Its our hugh salties, well they definitely like those little ponds.
And like a salties i do have awful big teeth (and nose come to
think of it, and of course a big ......ego). Why should i be a little
fish. We up here know that everything gravitates toward these
small ponds. Come on - want a swim. Probably explains why
Burradoo is never on the map in the first place.
/
Shout
Graham Sanders
/
oh Got word back from Phils Doctor. He told me he was
impressed. Never seen a carbonated urine sample before.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:49:28 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: dunkelweizen color
Rama Roberts <rama@eng.sun.com> wrote
>I've been trying to put together a dunkel weizen recipe, but am having
>trouble finding a suitable source of color.
>My base recipe is
>2lbs 6-row
>5lbs wheat malt
>2lbs munich dark
>
>It seems that munich dark is the historical grain of choice for adding
>color, but at 15L, I would need to add so much that my OG would be out of
>acceptable range.
>I was thinking about adding 1/4 lb. black patent malt to bring the color
>up, but am concerned about any flavor it would impart that wouldn't be
>appropriate for the style.
>Dark wheat malt isn't available from my preferred vendor, if that was a
>possibility.
>Any suggestions on getting the color there in a manner that's true to the
>style? Feel free to hack the recipe if I'm going about it all wrong.
I certainly wouldn't use the black malt. You're right - it's flavor
would be way out of place. You want soft malt, not the sharpness of
black malt.
Six row is also not appropriate, but wouldn't hurt too much. You
don't need the enzymes. Perhaps you were looking for the slight
extra husks for lautering ease? I've never had a problem with all
two row.
My preferred recipe would be Munich and dark wheat, but since the
latter isn't available, how about uppping the dark Munich? I think
you could go with 7 lbs. dark Munich and 5 lbs. wheat and get a fine
beer. It depends on how dark and how richly malty you want the final
beer to be. If it seems too dark and rich, you could substitute some
Pils for the dark Munich. If you have regular Munich, you could go
with all it and wheat for a lighter color and less malty beer.
Good luck.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:23:08 +1100
From: David Lamotte <lamotted@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Oxyclean & PBW
Jason Gorman was commenting on Oxyclean and PBW
Of course, we have no hope of getting such fine products here down under,
but we do have a number of oxygenated cleaners.
Can anyone please tell me what is in these products so the I can look for
soemthing similar.
Thanks
David Lamotte
Cleaning up in Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:41:50 +1100
From: "Arnie Wierenga" <three_bears_brewing@hotmail.com>
Subject: Removing Labels
A mixture of cloudy ammonia with cold water has worked effectively for me.
Beer labels virtually fall off the bottles after about 30 mins. The ratio of
water to CA is not critical. Just experiment to find what works best.
Arnie Wierenga
Three Bears Brewing
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:27:31 -0800
From: "Bob" <bsmntbrewr@home.com>
Subject: History help
Brewers,
Looking for some info on the history and evolution of
American Pale Ales. Can anyone point me in the right
direction?
I've found a few things on what it should taste and look
like and recipes abound but not much more.
TIA
Brew On!
Bob Bratcher
Rogue Gallery Pin Up Model
Roanoke, VA
Star City Brewers Guild
http://hbd.org/starcity
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3559, 02/17/01
*************************************
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