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HOMEBREW Digest #3522
HOMEBREW Digest #3522 Fri 05 January 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
***************************************************************
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Contents:
Free Strawberry Wheat Beer (Tony Barnsley)
RE: Different carbonation levels in kegs/bottles (Alex Hazlett)
Re: Different carbonation levels in kegs & bottles (Markzak11)
Re: Degree Confluence Project (Brian Huntley)
Re: Question about Lagers/Lagering (Jeff Renner)
Dishwasher - Dirty Bottles (D.A.)" <drussel3@ford.com>
NetTyrants ("Richard Sieben")
Confluence Project ("Eric Fouch")
Samichlaus (Marc Sedam)
Hop analysis ("Louis K. Bonham")
Diacetyl rest question (Hop_Head)
Affordable Conical Fermentor (Mike)
General Non-Content/Base Malt Differences (cmmundt)
Yeast original sources; Dundee Lager? ("Dave Howell")
Reducing Cider Alcohol Level ("Peter Zien")
Yeast Temperature Tolerance ("Bret Mayden")
yeast bite (Marc Sedam)
wiring (Marc Sedam)
Address Change Notification (Some Guy)
Bonus Days at the Babcock Brewery (Some Guy)
lagering yeast ("Sean Richens")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:41:23 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley@blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Free Strawberry Wheat Beer
Phil Wrote
> Or maybe Tony could send him a strawberry wheat to really confuse him!
And Graham Replied
> Oh please PLEASE DO mate. I would like to taste a real fair dinkum
> fruit beer, even if you are an Irish Welshman. to restore my faith
> in fruit beers.
Graham whilst I would love to oblige I can no longer do it. (I'm not sure
that I could have done it morally anyway :> ). You see we were having a
tasting session before Christmas and I gave some to Helen (TMB) her comment
"It's not really a beer is it?" well that was enough for me IT HAD TO GO!!
So I unceremoniously emptied the keg down the outside drain :<
I have learned my lesson don't listen to
> Irish/English/Scottish
Australians who've had just too much rice lager
- --
Wassail!
Dai Owain Llewellyn
The brewer formally known as The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361)
Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
UK HOMEBREW - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK
Managed by home brewers for home brewers
To Subscribe send blank email to uk-homebrew-subscribe@smartgroups.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:49:33 -1000
From: Alex Hazlett <arexu@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Different carbonation levels in kegs/bottles
Did you prime the whole batch before bottling? Everything I've read on
the minikegs is that they need less priming sugar (though I thought it
was to prevent 'boinking' them...), perhaps that's why the mini is
fizzing up...
Alex Hazlett
(I just started putting beer in mini-kegs myself, only one batch so far,
so I dont have much practical knowledge of such, just what I read)
> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:56:34 +0000
> From: Tom smit <tom@lunica-data.com.au>
> Subject: Different carbonation levels in kegs & bottles
>
> Hi,
>
> I made a rather nice bitter recently and bottled a bit over half and put 10l
> into two 5l little kegs. The last bottle was finished last weekend-it had a
> nice low carbonation and a nice head, though not as creamy and persistent as I
> had hoped for. Last night I tapped the first of the two little kegs and got a
> gusher of foam.
>
> The only difference in treatment of the bottles and kegs was that the kegs
> spent a week or two longer in my 'cellar' (at20C) than the last bottles did.
>
> What caused this huge difference in carbonation? An extra week at higher
> than 'fridge temperature? The larger volume of ale in the keg?
>
> I have 20l Russian Imperial Stout (a partial mash version of the recipe in G
> Wheeler's book) sitting in four more of the little kegs since 25/11/00. Will
> they also be gushers? Should I tranfer them to another container that can be
> vented? They have a long time to mature before bottling!
>
> All six kegs are now sitting in my second brewfridge.
>
> TIA
>
> Tom Smit
>
> Little horses brewery
> At 34deg 52' S, 138deg, 30' E, can someone pls figure out for me my Rennerian
> coordinates? (I'm too busy draining my little keg before it explodes)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:47:54 EST
From: Markzak11@aol.com
Subject: Re: Different carbonation levels in kegs & bottles
Tom,
Looking at the "gushing" mini-kegs, here's some thoughts based on similar
experiences (all disclaimers apply for company references):
1) Bottles & mini-kegs require different levels of priming. I have found
that more than 1oz. of corn sugar in the kegs can produce the excessive
carbonation levels. Take a look at the Williams Brewing site,
www.williamsbrewing.com, for a more in depth discussion.
2) I have also had good success using a pressure relief bung manufactured by
Listerman. This works well in preventing the expanding mini-keg.
Good luck,
Mark Zak
Sandpiper Brewing Co.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:03:23 -0500
From: Brian Huntley <bphuntley@home.com>
Subject: Re: Degree Confluence Project
In #3521, Eric Ahrendt wrote:
>
> After the original post I checked out my neck of the woods - Ohioans are an
> industial bunch. Only one out of ten left and that's way down in the south
> east. I'll hit it this summer on a motorcycle trip if it's still open.
> Apparently Michiganians and Ontarians are slackers. Michigan has several
> open and in Ontario only one out of approximately 150 have been tagged.
> There's one south of Windsor (probably the southernmost point of Canada,
> excepting Pelee Point/Pelee Island) that's practically on the beach. I might
> get that one by boat this summer.
There are four reachable in a reasonable time (by car) from Toronto Ontario -
one of them's in a suburb of Buffalo, NY, however, and doens't count. Of the
remaining three, two have been (rather poorly) visited but as they're on private
land, not pinpointed. I was planning on renting a car and a GPS and doing
those two in the spring, but may have to settle for just the NW one.
While there may be about 150 in Ontario, 50% of our population is in one
small area, and the north is VERY empty. It's like Oz with porcupines instead
of wombats, and frostbite instead of sunstroke. You can't just hop in a big
pink bus and drive there, either.
Beer related: I have a bitter and two wines sitting cheek to jowl on my
brewing bench, fermenting. All use yeasts rated for 20 C, but the actual
temperature is down around 16. The the bitter is still going strong, but the
wines are lethargic as hell. Can anyone explain why? [I've since tried to raise
the ambiant with a 100w lightbulb nearby.]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:07:10 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Question about Lagers/Lagering
Chad Mundt asked
>what is the
>advantage of lagering in a secondary versus lagering in a bottle.
I think it's a matter of choice and convenience. You should get less
sediment in the bottles by lagering in bulk as you will have
perfectly clear beer at that point, but your friend's technique of
using Polyclar gets around that problem.
> I currently have two 5 gallon (19 litres) batches lagering. A German
>Pilsner and what I hope turns out to be a Dortmund style. I was thinking
>that the yeast in the beer will not be very active for priming when I
>bottle after sitting for 2 months in 30 F (-1 C) temperatures. Should I
>add new yeast for priming, and if so, will using a dry yeast cause any off
>flavors, I used liquid yeasts to make the beer. I was planning on using
>Saflager S-23 as the priming yeast.
I seldom lager that long - six weeks seems to be enough, and I seldom
bottle any more. However, when I do bottle, I've never had any
problem with the yeast being active enough to carbonate just fine. I
generally make sure to drag a little yeast off the bottom of the
secondary with the tip of the racking cane when I rack into the
priming vessel. Then I let the bottles rest at cellar temperature
two weeks or so, then keep them refrigerated.
Good luck.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:51:05 -0500
From: "Russell, David (D.A.)" <drussel3@ford.com>
Subject: Dishwasher - Dirty Bottles
First off, Happy New Year everyone. I know we have a resident "fridge"
expert out there, but I hope there is also someone with some dishwasher
experience to help me out.
My standard procedure after emptying a beer is to: rinse the bottle out
well, and place it in the dishwasher for that little extra cleaning, then
store the bottles downstairs until my next batch. I have been doing this
for about 2 years. A few weeks back, I noticed that I was getting some left
over "residue" in the bottles after the dishwasher was done with the cycle.
It looked to be small grains of dirt left in the neck of the bottles. This
"dirt" is easily rinsed out after the dishes are done. No other dishes were
getting this residue/dirt, but nothing else shaped like a beer bottle was
being washed in the dishwasher. After I discovered this, I did some
experimentation.
Cleaned out any residual dirt in the trap in the bottom of the dishwasher, I
did what our local "radio" appliance expert recommends in cleaning out the
dishwasher by running a bottle of powder "Tang" to clean out the spray jets.
We use the tablet form of dry soap, we run hot water in the sink before
starting the dishwasher.
I am pretty sure that this is a new occurrence, and I have not had this
problem before, I am sure I would have noticed. With everything I have
done, it continues to occur. Any help?
David Russell
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:27:57 -0600
From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1@email.msn.com>
Subject: NetTyrants
Brian Lundeen, Sorry to hear about the NetTyrants blocking your hbd. I
prefer to think of them as the LAN Nazi's.
As I remember, it is likely that the Nazi's did drink beer, so maybe you can
coax them.....
Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL
far far away from any LAN Nazi's
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:53:02 -0500
From: "Eric Fouch" <airrick147@hotmail.com>
Subject: Confluence Project
Eric Ahrendt says of my Statesmen:
"
Apparently Michiganians are slackers. Michigan has several
open and in Ontario only one out of approximately 150 have been tagged.
"
I was hoping my last penicillin shot would take care of my confluence
problem. Since it has not, I shall check the site.
Hmmm......No confluence points near my backyard or the bowling alley I'll
bee at tonight.
I have a picture of myself and a freshly gutted deer near the Sterling
confluence point, and some drunken fishing footage of me near the Dowagiac
confluence point.
I'll see if I can get closer.
Eric Fouch
N42,52,30
W85,37,30
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:47:07 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: Samichlaus
So you want to clone Samichlaus? Welcome to the
Thunderdome, my friend.
I've spent a goodly deal of time, effort, and energy trying
to clone this bad boy and I recently came very, very close.
It's my pet beer since I'm born on the day it's brewed and
released, so I always toast myself with my stash of them
each year. The only problem with my version is that I left
the beer of the yeast for several months and now have a very
nasty yeast bite that makes the beer nearly undrinkable.
Anyhoo...here's how I did it.
RECIPE FOR SEDAMICHLAUS
GRIST
20lbs of 2-row
3.5lbs honey added to the wort after removing from heat
***note: based on Michael Jackson's recent article, I would
replace 2lbs of the 2 row with 2lbs of Munich malt***
MASH
I used a very laborious mash suggested to me by Jim Liddl.
I got very good efficiency and an attenuation of 85.2%
(calculated with StrangeBrew) using this mash method and a
1.25 qts/lb water/grain ratio. I feel this mash method is
necessary to get the final beer down to a reasonable gravity
and not have a cloyingly sweet taste.
a) mash in at 37 C, hold 20 minutes;
b) over the course of 20 minutes raise to 49 C and hold
30 minutes;
c) over the course of 10-15 minutes raise to 60 C hold 30
minutes;
d) raise to 63 C and hold 25 minutes;
e) raise to 65 C and hold for 30 minutes;
f) raise to 70C for 10 minutes
HOPS
90 minute boil total. Add bittering hops at 60 minutes.
my recipe: mash hop with 3oz Ultra, bitter
with 1oz Chinook and 2oz Bullion
Jackson suggestions: bitter with German Magnum (NOT Yakima
Magnum) and Perle --I'd suggest around 60IBU total, flavor
with Saaz--I suggest 2oz.
YEAST
WLP885- Zurich Lager Yeast (WhiteLabs Platinum Series)
This is the yeast used to brew Samichlaus with. I know...I
cultured it up from a 1996 vintage and gave it to WhiteLabs
to clean up and use. It's a very slow fermenter and, like
most big beers, could use some rousing to keep the
fermentation moving. The flavors associated with this yeast
are critical to getting the Samichlaus taste in your
version. It also makes a pretty kickass Belgian Ale--lots
of spicy notes. It will ferment quickly down to 1.040, but
needs to be roused regularly to finish the job.
HOWEVER...if I had to do it again I might consider
fermenting at 60F with an enormous amount of EDME dry yeast
or fdry Danstar Nottingham (some antifoam agent is very
helpful) to get the gravity down in the 1.040s, then crash
cool and pitch a very healthy starter of the Zurich Lager
yeast. I recommend a gallon starter of the Zurich yeast and
pitch around 52F to get the good flavors of the yeast in
your beer. I really liked my version done solely with the
Zurich yeast, but it took quite a while to attenuate.
Make sure to aerate/oxygenate the hell out of the wort. I
did a one minute blast of pure oxygen at pitching and
another blast 12 hours later. Stuff took off like a
rocket. I would also suggest a heapin' helping of yeast
nutrient in the cooled wort. With a beer this big, you need
all the help you can get.
So that's it. My version went from 1.115 to 1.017. The
starting gravity was a bit low due to the amount of wort I
could boil. I wound up making a separate 5 gallons of mild
from the grist. With a big boiler and plenty of fuel and
time, the recipe should give a starting gravity around 1.130
when you add the honey.
Good luck. Big beers are so damn fun.
-Marc Sedam
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:01:25 -0600
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham@hypercon.com>
Subject: Hop analysis
Hi folks:
On the subject of assaying alpha and beta acid levels in hops, those of you
who are interested might wanna check out this article:
http://www.scisoc.org/asbc/journal/pdfs/2000/0317-01R.pdf
It's an ASBC paper presented at their last convention, entitled "Development
of Near-Infrared Calibrations for Hop Analysis." The method described is
apparently a hot topic inside the ASBC, in that it would allow quick and
accurate assays of hops by near-infrared reflectance(NIR) spectroscopy . .
. without the need for any of the wet chemistry!
Of course, it *does* require a NIR spectrophotometer . . . .
All the best -- LKB
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:11:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Hop_Head@webtv.net
Subject: Diacetyl rest question
When doing a diacetyl rest, is it ok to rack the beer to a secondary
carboy before doing the rest? I have a pils in the primary now throwing
a bubble around every 25 seconds or so, and I want to brew another pils
using the same yeast cake tomorrow. Can I use this method for the rest
or do I have to wait and brew on another day?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:41:41 -0500
From: Mike <mroesch@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Affordable Conical Fermentor
Well after eleven years of "marital bliss" = No homebrew...;={)
I'm finally "getting back to it" in a big way.
I'm wanting to eventually "all grain brew", although I am going
to make some extract brews so I have something to drink (after all
you can't work on homebrew equipment while drinking a "store bought"
brew can you?) while "tinkering" with brewery equipment in my
basement brewhouse.
I have been doing some surfing on websites for advanced equipment
and came upon the Affordable Conical Fermentor II by Minibrew. Has
anyone used this device yet? It seems to be a good choice for an
all grain brewer who would like to harvest yeast for subsequent batches
etc.
Anyway, any opinions? experience?
Mike Roesch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:20:31 -0500
From: cmmundt@AircraftBraking.com
Subject: General Non-Content/Base Malt Differences
Hello All,
First, I must mention how grateful I am for the brewing information
and daily escape from SWMBO that I get from reading the HBD. The content
and lack therein of all posts keeps me on the edge of my seat waiting for
next installment. I would like to thank Stephen for bringing up such
painful memories that the Michaelis-Menten reaction kinetics caused me over
9 years ago as an undergrad, but keep the installments coming. As for the
fellows discussing Darcy's Law as it applies to lauter-tun flow, any
empirical data you record I would enjoy sifting through. I have not worked
on any 2-D or 3-D flow models in a while. It is always good to keep your
math skills sharp.
Now beer related stuff. I switched to all-grain brewing about 5
months back and have successfully brewed 4 beers, two I have tasted and two
are lagering. I have been sticking with highly modified malts to make it
easier for me. I was wondering where I could locate a book,
journal/magazine article(s), web sites, HBD archives, etc. that summarizes
the different characteristics the various base malts provide to the beer.
For example, what would be the differences in a beer brewed with Munton &
Fison Pale Malt versus M&F Marris Otter Malt, or should I just brew
different batches and find out for myself?
Hoppy Brewing,
Chad Mundt
cmmundt@aircraftbraking.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:24:15 -0700
From: "Dave Howell" <djhowell@qwest.net>
Subject: Yeast original sources; Dundee Lager?
All:
Is there a chart on the Web, listing the various yeasts and their *origin*?
What I mean is a chart like:
WhiteLabs xxx Primary Pilzn (Pilsner Urquell)
.
.
.
Wyeast 1006 Chico
.
.
.
Wyeast 2007 Anheuser Busch
Wyeast 2112 Anchor Brewing
I'd love to see a chart like this!
Also, nobody had any suggestions on the Dundee Classic Lager. Next time I
go to the grocery store I'll see if I can get a contact address for the
brewer and ask them... For those who have not tried it, I thought it was a
pretty good brew.
Dave Howell
Brewing in Mesa, Arizona, where the temperature was a cool 77 deg F today...
"The time has come, the Walrus said, to speak of many things: Of shoes,
of ships, of sealing wax, of cabbages and kings, and why the sea is
boiling hot and whether pigs have wings."
--- Charles Dodgson (aka Lewis Carroll)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:35:04 -0800
From: "Peter Zien" <pz.jdzinc@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Reducing Cider Alcohol Level
I'm new to cider making, and watched in amazement as Chris White's English
Cider yeast attenuated my 1.080 OG cider down to 0.998 FG. I bottled half
the batch as is, but would like to have a lower alcohol version for the
rest. I have heard of two methods: 1) Dilute with water; and 2) Heat to 180
degrees F to cause the alcohol to evaporate. Diluting with water would seem
to be the easiest, but at what cost flavor-wise? And I'm not too thrilled
about the concept of heating a fermented cider and then cooling it down
and bottling. I know that commercial ciders are often sweetened and
diluted with water prior to packaging. How do the experienced cider makers
on HBD feel about these methods of reducing the alcohol level in cider?
Are there other ways to accomplish this?
Thanks for the help,
Peter Zien
Quality Ale & Fermentation Fraternity (Quaff)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:39:05 -0000
From: "Bret Mayden" <brmayden@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yeast Temperature Tolerance
In the 1/4/01 HBD, Darly Newbury wrote:
"The temperature of the brewing area seems in my new house, seems to
hoveraround 16C/61F during the winter months. I brewed yesterday with
WhitelabsEast Coast Ale which has an optimum temperture range of 68-73F,
will I have problems getting it to ferment at that temperature?"
My brew room stays about 62F. I pitched a tube of the White Labs WLP008 on
12/18/00 into 80f wort; lag time was 18 hrs. Airlock never showed the
activity I get with dry yeast. 10 days later, primary still had some
krausen on it but activity was very slow. The beer did not have the sour
tang I have read about from other brewers, but it was still very malty (OG
was 1.063 & had dropped to 1.016). I went ahead & racked to secondary. It
finally dropped the krausen after a couple more days & now activity has
finally died off to zip. I haven't checked SG yet but the beer is clearing,
so I will bottle this weekend. Hope this gives you an idea of what to
expect.
Bret Mayden
brmayden@hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:02:10 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: yeast bite
My earlier post on Samichlaus spoke about the nasty yeast bite that it
has after sitting on the yeast for too long. Has anyone found a way to
get rid of this taste? Would pitching fresh, actively fermenting yeast
do the trick? Any suggestions would be great, since the batch was not
only expensive but very cool to brew. I'd hate to think my laziness
wrecked it.
Cheers!
Marc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:09:44 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: wiring
I need some help from the electricians in the audience.
I just got a pump from Moving Brews (NAYY) that I'm ready to get brewing
with. I didn't realize it came unwired. It has three wires total
(positive, negative, ground??). Is there anything I should take into
consideration when wiring? I assume I can head to Lowes or Home Depot
and find a regular switch, right.
On a similar note, I salvaged a stirplate from a friend of mine who's a
chemist. I opened it up, cleaned it out, but wound up having to put a
new switch in the front because the old wiring was decayed. Now when I
use it the outside gets hot after about 10 minutes (metal housing). I
did not use solder to connect the wiring to the switch. Is it possible
that the inefficient connection is causing the heat or is it more likely
that I've reversed the wiring? I know the ground wire is right, but I
don't want to switch the wiring if all I need to do is get some solder.
A wandering brewer looking for electrical help. No need to warn me not
to play with wiring. I already know I'm in over my head.
Cheers!
Marc
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:37:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: Address Change Notification
Quick note: As of tonight, thee email addresses pbabcock@oeonline.com and
babcockp@mediaone.net are officially and totally gone. Please use only
the pbabcock@hbd.org address from here on out!
Thanks!
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:42:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: Bonus Days at the Babcock Brewery
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Well, I was having problems with both the washer and the dryer. Exercised
my home warranty, and repair technicans dutifully came out and replaced
the motors on both. As an added bonus, they left the old ones behind.
Now, the trouble I was having with the washer I had already identified as
a broken coupling (they replaced that as a matter of course when replacing
the motor). The dryer didn't like to start when it was hot. Both, for my
purposes, are quite functional!
So? Does anyone have any neat ideas for where I can use a couple of pretty
heavy duty motors in the brewery? I'm thinking the one can replace the
existing motor on my mill. The other, perhaps a mash mixer?
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:34:23 -0600
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens@sprint.ca>
Subject: lagering yeast
I may not be the most experienced or scientific lager brewer, but I have
always used the big free refrigerator with the blue ceiling and the bright
light (modulated by opening and closing the brewing room window) so I'm very
experienced in mistreating yeast.
I think -1 C is a bit cold for lagering, but at least it slows down any bad
things happening to your yeast as much as the yeast themselves. If you're
worried, suck a bit of your secondary yeast cake into a 2 L batch of fresh
wort (go ahead, use DME), get it going, pitch it back in, and bottle as soon
as it's done fermenting.
Lagering in bottle or secondary isn't a hard choice, just do both. I don't
go to such a low temperature until I have a decent bottle carbonation going,
or I screw up, whichever happens first. The beer still tastes wonderful.
Sean Richens
srichens.spamsucks@sprint.ca
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3522, 01/05/01
*************************************
-------
