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HOMEBREW Digest #3537
HOMEBREW Digest #3537 Tue 23 January 2001
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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Contents:
CO2 and headspace size ("Benjy Edwards")
Re: Cold steeping (Christopher Farley)
Skunky Beer (Wayne Aldrich)
Hops affect on oxidation ("David B. Peterson")
re: Draft Beer = Headache?/Reading is Still Fundamental ("Stephen Alexander")
RE: CFC ("J. Doug Brown")
Foam Control ("Mark Tumarkin")
Immersion Chilling Time ("Tom Williams")
Pivoxygenation ("Alan Meeker")
Rabbits and Physics (Vachom)
Sh*tty Wyeast "Pitchable" Tubes ("S. SNYDER")
Draft Beer & chillers ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
mash hopping and ProMash (Marc Sedam)
Where in the world is Dave Burley? ("Donald D. Lake")
FreezeShield (Marc Sedam)
Extract Brewers Needed ("Ray Daniels")
Fla beer? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
acronym page ("S. SNYDER")
ok to purchase warm beer? ("Richard Sieben")
Hop bags, Tap beer headaches (Beaverplt)
Drilling Enamel ("Marty Milewski")
counter flow chillers (JDPils)
Blank holders (Epic8383)
Cloudy Issue (Markzak11)
yeast harvest warning (Rama Roberts)
co2 regulator backdraft (joe)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:30:43 -0500
From: "Benjy Edwards" <rdbedwards@hotmail.com>
Subject: CO2 and headspace size
First off - sorry for the length of this post! I guess I'm having
trouble putting my thoughts into words...
Has anyone noticed the phenomenon of varying carbonation level due to
headspace size? There's not much in the literature about it.
I'm talking about how the level of carbonation will vary depending on
the size of the headspace above the beer. This is most often thought of
when bottling - you're supposed to only leave a small headspace in the neck
of the bottle because if you don't, the bottle is likely to overcarbonate.
If you fill a bottle halfway with primed beer it will either explode or blow
the cap off into your eye when you try to open it.
This phenomenon also carries over to kegs - I've been having trouble
getting my corny kegged beer to carbonate fully, and I think it's because I
fill the keg right up to the bottom of the short (gas in) dip tube. I have
only seen this discussed in one of my 30+ homebrewing books - Papazian in
NCJHB says:
"My own observations have indicated that a bottle that is filled right
to the top, with no air space whatsoever, will not develop enough
carbonation. An air space of 1/2 inch will develop the same carbonation as
a bottle of beer with 2 inches of air space. A bottle that is half filled
with beer may become excessively carbonated and very dangerous if it
explodes. My educated explanation is that insufficient or excessive
carbonation, due to over- or underfill is related to the fact that yeast
activity is inhibited by pressure. A small air space (overfill) will
quickly develop high pressure while a large air space (underfill) will not
develop enough pressure to inhibit yeast activity."
While I agree with his observations of this concept, I don't agree
with his rationale. Why would yeast be affected by headspace pressure?
However, I have yet to come up with a satisfactory alternative hypothesis.
Anyone have any ideas? Does all this mean I should just not fill my kegs so
much? What are your practices in filling corny kegs vs. carbonation levels?
Thanks for any and all information!
regards,
Benjamin Edwards
rdbedwards@hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:10:45 -0600
From: Christopher Farley <chris@northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Re: Cold steeping
Bob Wilcox wrote:
> I have tried cold steeping twice. First with chocolate malt for a
> Schwartzbier , that a friend brewed. That turned out very nice. No
> harshness from the dark grains, color came out very dark. Its something
> I would use again. A little goes a long way though.
>
> The second go at it was for a Vienna. I steeped 1/2lb of Aromatic in a
> 1/2 gal water. This is still in the fermentor. It had a nice flavor and
> color(light orange). I added the whole amount to the boil.
>
> We found that you do get some extract from steeping at least with the
> chocolate. I didn't take a gravity reading with the aromatic.
I recently read an article by George Fix who suggested you ought to
steep *three times* the normal amount of grain in a cold steep. If that
is true, your 1/2 lb. of Aromatic would have a fairly minimal effect.
I'll see if I can dig up the Fix reference and post it.
- --
Christopher Farley
www.northernbrewer.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:17:41 +0100
From: Aldrich4@t-online.de (Wayne Aldrich)
Subject: Skunky Beer
Skunky beer is caused by exposure to bright light.
All beer should be stored in a cool (50 deg. f) dark
location. Most beer is sold in dark brown glass bottles
or cans. This is to guard against light damage.
If your beer is delivered from green or clear glass
bottles and it has not been stored properly there is
a very good chance it will be skunky.
Draft Headaches: I agree that the likely culprit is
mold or at the least dirty draft lines. I think those of
us that have been "educated" (OK obsessed) about
beer and how it should taste no longer drink megabrewed
draft beer so we do not experience the punishing after effects.
Prost!
Wayne Aldrich
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:15:33 -0800
From: "David B. Peterson" <dave@toppledwagon.com>
Subject: Hops affect on oxidation
Do hoppier beers get skunky faster? Or does it slow the oxidation process?
-Dave
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:14:53 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: Draft Beer = Headache?/Reading is Still Fundamental
>Anyway, my secretary insists that draft beer gives her a slamming headache
>after one or two beers, but beer in bottles and cans doesn't. To her "beer"
>is bud, miller, coors, or corona for when she is being festive.
There have been several reports here *suggesting* that bottled beer may be
better filtered than kegged products, and I've cleaned a few crufty kegs
that seemed to have significant yeast deposits. Some posts have also
associated yeast in beer with headaches.
===
re: what's up must come down
DocP writes ...
>They ogengenated at various levels
>starting at 8ppm and going upwards. [...]
>And what did they come up with.
>
>The lowest level (8ppm) was shown to have the lowest measured oxidative
>destruction, and was by blind tasting judged as the least stale tasting.
Least stale - but was it the best tasting ?
>Does that sound like a good study?
>
>NOOOOOOOOOOO.
>
>Now, where else have you ever heard of a study where the maximum value lies
>at one extreme of the variables, and THEY DON'T BOTHER TO PERSUE THAT
>VARIABLE ANY FURTHER!
Happens all the time. Not every experiment report covers the range of a
variable that you would like to see - that's the norm in most branches of
science (tho not math) as far as I can tell. You're complaint seems to be
that since the range of SOME experiment's variables does not extend beyond
that practical to a commercial industry, therefore the results are
meaningless and can make nothing but velveta. First, a lot of the lit is
unfunded and from Universities which revel in extending some variables to
absurd lengths. Even so, if you have paper that demonstrates an improvement
as one drops initial O2 from 24 to 12 to 8ppm then it is not correct to
OVERRREAD the results as saying 8ppm is optimal, nor that 4ppm would be
better, nor that 30ppm is necessarily worse. Papers typically only report
a confined experimental result - extrapolations belong to the reader.
>The literature that is produced by, and for, the industry is REPLEAT with
>this sort of "reasoning within a protected limit", and I can't see why the
>article quoting crowd here can't see that.
I for one recognize this fully. I also recognize that this doesn't mean
that the results are in error or inapplicable if I produce sufficiently
similar conditions in my basement brewery. One must be careful to NOT read
more into ANY result than is supported.
I really don't find the lit to be so commercial practice bound either. Is
Kirin really interested in 51 hop variants for their beers ? Would Bass
really feed massive amounts of malt lipids to their yeast, or would Allied
brewers really try to grow commercial starters in mannitol ? Would the BRF
have the industry hold their fermenters at 3 atmospheres of CO2 head
pressure ? Does Coors intend to follow up the 90 liter CO2 level
measurements with a bunch of 90L production batches ? Of course not. They
want to understand too. Many papers are indirectly about making commercial
beers, (including Spaten and Ayinger and Bass, Guinness). It you think that
somehow invalidates the result or turns your beer into Bud - you are just
looking for excuses. Just how does a paper that demonstrates a
stochiometric relationship between trehalose use and sterol production help
make Bud but not great HB anyway ? How is a review of the flavor active
compounds in malt good only good for making Bud ?
You may choose to not read or not apply lit results to your own brewery -
let's not start with the silly claims that lit results are irrelevant to HB
and that only the Great and Powerful Pivo can perform *real* experiments
unlike that junk science in the peer reviewed journals. I've found many of
the results in the lit can be applied to HB scale brewing to good effect (I
just kegged an experimental pils using a method suggested by Bamforth).
Everything from adjunct mashing, mashing temps & thicknesses, yeast &
fermentation handling have shown improvement when applying techniques
adapted from 'the lit'.
Your skepticism of results is a good thing but your belief that all of the
brewing literature is out to turn your beer into Bud is paranoid babble.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:35:59 -0500
From: "J. Doug Brown" <dougbrown@citynet.net>
Subject: RE: CFC
Hi Dan,
My normal CFC practice is to fill the wort line with iodophor then
steam sanitize the chiller prior to use. After the boil, I'll whirlpool
the hot wort carefully (avoiding HSA) then allow the hot break to settle
out (10 minutes). Next I draw off the wort from near the bottom being
carefull to avoid drawing off the hot break. For this step use a metal
racking cane as the plastic one will melt. allow the wort to siphon
through the chiller and drain into your primary. I normally only leave
the fermenting wort in the primary for about 3 days then I transfer to
the secondary. My thoughts on the cold break is that because it is
sediment on the bottom and the flocculating yeast cells will quickly
form a thin layer over it. I don't worry about it during the 3 day
primary ferment. On racking to the secondary, I do avoid transferring
the coldbreak/trub. I have not compared this to a primary ferment w/o
any break material, but I do like my beer.
My chiller (plans usage and description) is viewable at
http://members.citynet.net/kbrown/Doug/Brew/index.htm. My current
chiller is a 25 foot all copper chiller and is able to bring the wort to
within a degree of tap temperature. Currently I use the chiller in
conjunction with my inline wort areator. I have made some improvements
on my chilling system as well that I will be adding to my pages
(hopefully by wednesday). These include a venturi type system that
takes the hot flow of water from the CFC and uses it to drive the
venturi which is used to help draw wort through the chiller. I have
also added an activated carbon filter to my brewing system to remove
chloramines. My final addition as of late is a heat shroud around my
boiling vessle to conserve heat and increase effeciency of propane
usage. Finally I color coded the ends of my chiller so I don't have to
think about which end to hook the hot/cold lines to.
- --
J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV
Software Engineer @ ProLogic, Inc.
mailto:dougbrown@citynet.net mailto:dbrown@prologic-inc.com
http://members.citynet.net/kbrown/Doug http://www.prologic-inc.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:17:21 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Foam Control
CD Pritchard writes: "With previous brews, I've had to either watch the
boiler for boilovers like a hawk in the boiler or add
FoamControl." and also mentions using it in yeast starters. From your post, it
sounds like your pretty satisfied with it (though maybe will use corn
instead). I talked to someone at a competition this past weekend who has been
using it in his fermenters - filling them quite full without needing a
blow-off tube. I knew about using it in the fermenter, but hadn't been aware
that it could be used in the boil (though I don't need that as boilovers
aren't a real problem with my system).
It sounds like an interesting product. What experiences have others had with
it? Any negative effects on heading or retention?
Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, Fl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:42:15 -0500
From: "Tom Williams" <williams2353@hotmail.com>
Subject: Immersion Chilling Time
Greetings to the list, after a 3.5 year absence!
Andy Buhl and Dan Diana write about less than favorable performance from
immersion chillers:
Andy: with my graduation to full 5 gallon all grain batches, I have faced 1
hour chilling times only reducing temperatures to the mid 90's.
Dan: I am beginning to get frustrated with the amount of time it takes to
cool, the poor control of the final wort temperature, and the waste of good
water.
I must be missing something here. I believe that neither of these gentlemen
agitates their immersion chillers. Yesterday I used my immersion chiller to
cool a full 5 gal extract batch. With 49F cooling water and gentle back and
forth agitation of the coils, The wort reached 140F in 2 minutes and 80F in
5 min. I have had similar experiences every time I have used this chiller.
Is there some reason not to move the chiller around? This makes a HUGE
difference in the chilling time. I have noticed a reluctance to agitate in
many past postings.
Also, is there some difference in experience related to extract vs. all
grain brewing? My batches are all extract + steeped specialty grains,
mostly crystal and carapils.
Cheers,
Tom Williams in Dunwoody, GA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:34:30 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker@mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Pivoxygenation
Doc Pivo wrote:
>The fact that I have also tried to test the relevance of many oft' repeated
>ideas, within the framework of trying to produce a nice fresh beer, has
lead
>me to believe that much of the information is indeed correct, if your aim
in
>cheese making is "Velveeta", bread making is "wonder bread", and beer is
>"Budweiser".
I too have experimented with some of the variables identified in the
research literature as having significant impacts on beer quality. In some
cases I got better beer, in others not. Not all research stems from the
large mega-breweries and not all research coming from or sponsored by these
sources is limited strictly to optimizing the production of their mostly
insipid beers.
>The article I mentioned was in fact a very good example of just how
>useful/useless these things can be..... They ogengenated at various levels
>starting at 8ppm and going upwards. Analysis was done both by spin
>resonance, and trained tasting panels. Other studies were cited showing
>that spin resonance has been shown to correlate well with oxidative states,
>and subsequent judgement of "staling" by panels.
>And what did they come up with.
>The lowest level (8ppm) was shown to have the lowest measured oxidative
>destruction, and was by blind tasting judged as the least stale tasting.
>Does that sound like a good study?
>NOOOOOOOOOOO.
Just because the results of a study come out the way one would have expected
does not make it a poor study. What exactly was the goal of this study
anyway? Your original post was concerned with the /timing/ of oxygenation,
now you are criticizing another part of the study (?) dealing with the
/level/ of oxygenation. What was the goal of the study?? I'd like to see a
copy if possible...
>Now, where else have you ever heard of a study where the maximum value lies
>at one extreme of the variables, and THEY DON'T BOTHER TO PERSUE THAT
>VARIABLE ANY FURTHER!
>I'll tell you where.... in industrial literature.
>If some researcher persues that further and finds that at even less levels
>of oxygenation, the beer becomes even better, but takes the company longer
>to produce it (and thus costs the company more,) that is one researcher who
>won't be heading up the next project, if he is still retained at all.
>The literature that is produced by, and for, the industry is REPLEAT with
>this sort of "reasoning within a protected limit", and I can't see why the
>article quoting crowd here can't see that.
Oh, I think most people here understand the limitations of
industry-sponsored research and even studies in which the variable(s) under
consideration are kept within "protected limits" can produce useful results
or provide food for thought. You are of course correct in pointing out that
such ideas must be tested out on one's own system as the final quality will
obviously depend on all the myriad details of one's own brewing set-up.
-Alan Meeker
Baltimore "The Purple City' Maryland
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:45:31 -0600
From: Vachom <MVachow@newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: Rabbits and Physics
Dave Persenaire's description of the local rabbit population chowing down
his spent grains and leaving the yard scattered with rabbit pellets is, of
course, a perfect example of the conservation of mash.
Mike
New Orleans, LA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:06:32 -0500
From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER@LBGHQ.com>
Subject: Sh*tty Wyeast "Pitchable" Tubes
Greetings to the collective,
Just a data point (actually two) on the Wyeast pitchable tubes. I have used
two pitchables and will not use them again. The first was for a Pilsner
Urquell #2278 and the next for Ceasaurus (sp?) Imperator Heller Bock (either
2308 or 2206 I can't remember right now). Both had dates within a month of
when I bought them. I brought them up to room temp and pitched them into
well aerated worts. I have never had such a delay in fermentation with the
smack packs, regular or XL.
The Pilsner was pitched on a Wednesday around 7pm and did not start by 1pm
Saturday when I got two smack packs and pitched them. By the next morning
the brew was happily fermenting, still lagering the secondary now so I am
keeping my fingers crossed.
The Imperator was brewed on a Wednesday and I pitched at about 5pm. It just
started fermenting yesterday (Sunday around 5 pm) and it is a pathetic
ferment. This delay is way too long, as far as I'm concerned, that is not
"ready to pitch". After so many days I wonder if my well aerated wort is no
longer as well aerated
I'm done with the tubes, but I still love the smack packs.
Any thoughts?
Scott
Trumbull, CT
ssnyder@lbghq.com
Rotten Rotti Brewing Company
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:12:45 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@merck.com>
Subject: Draft Beer & chillers
Mike B makes an intersting observation:
>From: "Timmons, Frank" <frank.timmons@honeywell.com>
>Subject: Draft Beer = Headache?
>It is more likely the headaches are an environmental issue. YOU ARE SITTING
>IN A TOBACCO SMOKE FILLED POORLY VENTILATED ROOM.
Alcohol will dialate your blood vessels while cigarettes will cause them to
constrict. Now what do you think will happen when you keep confusing the
blood vessels in your head like that?
This is, of course, going on Mike's assumption that bottled beer is drunk at
home in a smoke-free environment and draft is drunk at the pub while either
smoking socially or inhaling secondary smoke.
Regarding chillers:
A few have also posted on immersion chillers and experiencing either long
chill times or high end temps. CF or Immersion? Hrmmmm... Well, neither
will chill your wort below the temperature of the tap and both take just
about as long to do their magic when optimized.
Now I'm no thermodynamic guru, but I'm sure we have a few of them out there.
One of the factors effecting your cilling rate is the difference between the
chilling medium and your wort. The bigger the difference, the faster the
rate. So for both styles of chillers you can make a pre-chiller for your
tap water. Have your tapwater flow through the pre-chiller in a bucket of
ice-water to drop the temperature of the tap water even lower. Crushed ice
works best and add just enough water to make a slush which fills the gaps
between ice and coil.
Just set it up and go for a CF chiller since you chill small amounts of wort
at a time in a continuous process. For an immersion chiller you chill the
entire mass. Since you'll be starting at near boiling temps you'll have a
big difference between your wort and your groundwater. The rate will be
fast at first but will decrease as the difference in temps decreases. So
drop your temperature without the use of the pre-chiller and save some ice.
You'll sacrifice a few minutes of chilling time though. Once you hit
somewhere around 100F, stick the pre-chiller in the bucket of icewater and
continue chilling to your target temp.
I have used this method with much success in the hot summer months when the
tapwater is warm. I can chill a 5 gallon kettle from boil to 70F in 20
minutes using a 25' immersion coil (1/4" ID copper) and a 25' pre-chiller.
Great for summer brewing. During winter, I place my pre-chiller in a bucket
of water and let it freeze into a solid block on the back porch or use snow.
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen A. Pannicke
glen@pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:13:55 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: mash hopping and ProMash
Steve sez...
"I am contemplating the last. When mash hopping, do I change the
bittering
hops at all? Do I change the amount of finishing hops? Does mash
hopping
affect bitterness or just flavor and aroma? Finally, and most
importantly,
how do I handle mash hopping when using Promash? I just think
this program
is great! Thanks in advance for the advice."
After some more experimentation you may want to bump up the
bittering hops by a few percent to make up for the small amount
of lost bitterness from the traditional flavor and aroma
additions.
You do change the amount of finishing hops--by removing them!
Replace all flavor and finishing hops with 1.5x that amount in
mash hops (e.g. 1oz flavor + 1oz aroma = 3oz mash hops). It adds
a small amount of bitterness. Plug it in to ProMash as an
addition 5 mins prior to knockout.
Cheers!
Marc, the Alechemist
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:20:21 -0500
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dlake@gdi.net>
Subject: Where in the world is Dave Burley?
Now that things have quieted down, I've noticed that perennial poster
Dave Burley is missing. It's like when someone shaves off their
mustache. You know something is different, you're just not sure what it
is.
Is he still alive? Could he be in the federal witness protection
program or maybe the Aussies devoured him?
Don Lake
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:19:01 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: FreezeShield
What is FreezeShield and is it commercially available?
-M
- --
Marc Sedam
Associate Director
Office of Technology Development
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105
Chapel Hill, NC 27599-4105
919.966.3929 (phone)
919.962.0646 (fax)
OTD site : http://www.research.unc.edu/otd
eMTA site: http://mta.unc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:55:19 -0600
From: "Ray Daniels" <raydan@ameritech.net>
Subject: Extract Brewers Needed
Hello all:
During the last few issues of Zymurgy, we introduced a new column on
extract/kit brewing. The basic idea is for several brewers to get together
and all brew some beers from the same base extract or kit. The general idea
is to make several interesting and tasting beers that are also easy to make.
Of course you are allowed to add things to the kit/can such as grains, hops
and your choice of yeast. When the beers have been tasted, we run the
recipes in Zymurgy and then the brewers get their names and faces in
Zymurgy. Of course they also get some free brewing ingredients (and
therefore free beer!) along the way.
I am now looking for some volunteers to participate in this program. Could
be a formal club or just some guys who hang out together and brew. Proven
brewing ability is the only requirement. Drop me a line privately at
ray@aob.org if you are interested and we'll get things rolling.
Regards,
Ray Daniels
Editor-in-Chief
Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Phone: 773-665-1300
Fax: 773-665-0699
E-mail: ray@aob.org
Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual
magazines.
Don't Miss:
Real Ale Festival, Chicago - March 1-3
Craft Brewers Conference, Portland, OR - April 4-7
National Homebrewers Conference, Los Angeles - June 21-23
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:26:47 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer@umich.edu>
Subject: Fla beer?
I'm going to be on vacation in the Florida Keys next week (between
Islamorada and Marathon).
My question is: what Florida beers can I expect to find in a "package
store?" And which of them are actually worth seeking out? If anyone
has comments on the Key West brewpubs, I'm interested in those, too.
Pubcrawler shows no other brewpubs in the Keys -- are there any
others?
Thanks.
=Spencer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:50:43 -0500
From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER@LBGHQ.com>
Subject: acronym page
Just a thought,
On the revamped web page, where the FAQ section is, why not start a list of
acronym descriptions? I don't know how big it would be, but I know
sometimes get frustrated when I can't figure them out. I can't be the only
one.
BTW, what the hell is RIMS?
Scott
Trumbull, CT
ssnyder@lbghq.com
Rotten Rotti Brewing Company
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:54:50 -0600
From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1@email.msn.com>
Subject: ok to purchase warm beer?
Mr. J.M., beer sitting on the shelf does not get skunky due to the
temperature, but rather to the blue/green spectrum of light. Some beers,
like Miller Lite, use special hop oils (tetrahops) which don't react with
light and therefore don't get skunked. Brown bottles slow down the reaction
of hop compounds with light which is the lightstruck character you call
skunky. Green and clear glass bottles are the worst as the color of light
that is the most damaging gets right through. Unfortunately no one makes a
reasonably priced dark red glass bottle, as that color would provide the
most protection outside of a keg or can through which no light gets to the
beer. I would expect most craft beers are not using the special hop
compounds and are easily lightstruck, so try to buy them in a sealed case if
possible or at least from the darkest corner of the cooler or shelf.
As to the warmth, the repeated warming and chilling of a beer may produce a
permanent haze in the beer, which may not look nice but has no flavor impact
at all. Abusing the beer with longer periods of high temperatures may lead
to an overpasturized flavor that is like honey on white bread. I drank a
Bud light that was intentionally abused this way, and I actually liked it,
but I really like honey on white bread. The industrial beers,
Bud,Miller,Coors etc. are all pasturized and are more resistant to flavor
changes due to being unrefrigerated for up to 2 years on the grocery store
shelves. Craft brews are generally not pasturized and will have much better
flavor stability if they are kept cold, but like homebrewers know,
unrefigerated homebrew can still be good for a long time unrefrigerated if
it lasts that long without being consumed.
In summary, if the beer you got is skunky or otherwise tastes bad, buy it
someplace else that seems to treat the beer properly.
Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:49:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hop bags, Tap beer headaches
Hi all,
I'm sure this has been brought up before but I have a
question about hops in the boil. I started wrapping my
hop pellets in some cheesecloth and immersing my "hops
bag' in the boil wherever the recipe called for it. By
doing this instead of just dumping the pellets in the
wort I've made straining the wort much easier. The
question I have is by concentrating the hops in a bag
like that, do I lose any of the effectiveness? Does
anyone else do this?
I have had a problem with tap beer headaches also. I
have noticed that it happens when I go into a bar that
never seems too busy. It also happens often when I
order a specialty beer if they have it. It's happened
often enough that I've been able to tell by the taste
whether I should dump it and order a bottle. I've also
asked some bartenders in these places how often the
bar owner cleans the tap lines. The answer is usually
a blank look. My theory after all this time is the
headaches are caused by dirt or mold in the tap lines.
Jerry "Beaver" Pelt
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:42:10 -0600
From: "Marty Milewski" <mmilewski@mlpusa.com>
Subject: Drilling Enamel
Hi all...
My local home brew supply shop went out of business and I was able to pick
up two brand new 8.25 gal enamel pots (1-boiling kettle/1-HLT) for a very
cheap price. My dilema is that I want to drill the pots in order to fit
them with a spigot and I'm afraid of chipping the baked enamel coating.
My only thought was to put duct tape on either side of the pot, and start
with a small sharp drill bit and progressively use larger bits.
Thoughts on this process? Does anyone have any experience or any ideas on
drilling enamel?
Prost,
Marty
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:18:27 EST
From: JDPils@aol.com
Subject: counter flow chillers
Dan writes,
<< do I need to worry about having
the extra trub in my primary? >>
That depends. I have a false bottom in my boiler and use only loose leaf
hops. This filters out most of the hot break. As for cold break, I do not
worry about. It can be benificial for the ferment. Another option is to
whirlpool the hot wort and syphon thru the chiller(I would use hop bags for
this method)
Any suggestions on how to best
sterilize it before and after use?
I run a sanitizer (idophor)thru my chiller for 5 minutes and let it sit for
another 5, then run 5 gallons of boiling water, After chilling I run tap
water in the reverse direction, then repeat the above. So far so good. One
note idophor can corrode copper, so do not let it sit longer than I mentioned
or choose a diffierent sanitizer.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Jim Dunlap
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:31:26 EST
From: Epic8383@aol.com
Subject: Blank holders
Thanks to everyone who responded about blank 6-pack holders. I got
www.grapeandgranery.com and www.morebeer.com.
Gus
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:36:42 EST
From: Markzak11@aol.com
Subject: Cloudy Issue
I am iterested in using finings (gelatin, isinglass, etc.). Any thoughts
along with results would be greatly appreciated.
Hope this helps to clear things up a bit.
Thanks,
Mark Zak
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:17:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <Rama.Roberts@eng.sun.com>
Subject: yeast harvest warning
A couple of batches ago, I thought I'd try my hand at repitching yeast
(Wyeast 1084) from the bottom of the primary fermentor. Seeing as I wasn't
ready to start my next batch (an oatmeal stout), I thought I'd *bottle*
the trub with a bit of beer remaining in the carboy and just cap it,
something I haven't seen suggested before, but sounded like an ideal
solution. So I topped off a 12 ounce bottle and threw it in the fridge.
About 3 weeks past, and I was ready to start the next batch. The night
before brew day, I got everything all set to make a starter from about 4
ounces of the saved trub, noticing that it now settled even more to about
6 ounces of solids and 6 ounces of beer.
I took the bottle out of the fridge and begin to remove the cap. About 1/2
the way off, the thing started foaming up and shooting out fairly quickly,
so quickly in fact that I thought it'd be better to completely remove the
cap before I lose all of my starter. So as I pry the cap the rest of the
way off, it shoots straight up (luckily!) and I hear it hit the ceiling,
as the beer continues to erupt out of the bottle as pure foam. Thinking
quickly, I pour the remainder of the bottle into my starter, which ended
up being about 2-3 ounces.
Happy that I was able to save enough of the starter, I put the bottle down
and take a step back to evaluate the damage. There was brown "mud" all
over the kitchen counter, my shirt and arms, and even a bit on the
walls. I immediately start wiping the counters when I get splattered with
an ounce of mud. What?! I look up to see a 24" circular splat on the
ceiling right above where I opened the bottle!
Just a warning to the rest of you... I was lucky the bottle didn't shatter
in my fridge, or worse. (although its really funny in retrospect).
There must have been some unfermented sugars left in the trub that the
yeast ate up in the 3 weeks. Next time, I'll use a mason jar or something
that won't let pressure build up like that again.
Cleanup wasn't as hard as it sounds, and the starter (my first try at
starters too) went without incident. The oatmeal stout I pitched it in
took off and finished at a respectable gravity with no noticable off
flavors- but I don't think I'll be *bottling* trub again!
- --rama
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:18:53 -0900
From: joe <andor@alaska.net>
Subject: co2 regulator backdraft
so i didn't have a one way valve on the gas line from the gas regulator
to the keg. can you guess where this is going??
after force carbonating the keg at 35psi, i backed off the regulator
to 10psi. though i didn't get a line full of beer going the wrong way,
i did get enough that about a half a teaspoon of beer to dribble out
the relief vent on the regulator.
so, before i put the screw drivers to the regulator to clean up the
insides, what do i need to know? springs shooting everywhere, speciality
tools required?
it's a cornelius 857-A style PL-60 gas regulator.
thanks, joe
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3537, 01/23/01
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