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HOMEBREW Digest #3507
HOMEBREW Digest #3507 Tue 19 December 2000
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
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Contents:
Aussie water (Pat Casey)
Can't You Just Feel The Serenity? ("Phil & Jill Yates")
Yeast propagation question, The Dr P affect (craftbrewer)
The Mad Scientiest ("Jim Bermingham")
Brewpubs in Cleveland ("james suchy")
Spirit of Belgium (Anderson Andy W NSSC)
Stupid Brewer Trick ("Dave Hinrichs")
Re: Iron removal ("M. Utes")
Strange Brew--ATTENION MICROBIOLOGISTS (Rod Prather)
Cylindro-Conical Fermenter (Rod Prather)
Re: bacteria in carbon filters (Martin_Brungard)
Beer Cuts Risk Of Cataracts And Heart Disease (Demonick)
Beer, in moderation, cuts risk of cataracts and heart disease (Jim Adwell)
Long time no hear. ("Leland Heaton")
("Phillipa Jarrett")
Aussie Microbiologists in the Loop? ("Dr. Pivo")
MCAB 3 (DAWNE TRENT & DAVID BRATTSTROM)
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:15:42 +1100
From: Pat Casey <patcasey@iprimus.com.au>
Subject: Aussie water
Concerning certain posts, Pete Calinski wonders if it is something in
the water. No, it is something in the beer.
Pat Casey
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:36:45 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates@acenet.com.au>
Subject: Can't You Just Feel The Serenity?
So I'm sitting here in my garage with a thunderstorm bucketing water down at
a massive rate. I'm supposed to be doing some work but with all these
fridges just sitting beside me, well surely it wouldn't hurt just to slip
into a peach wheat or two, an ageing English ale, and looky here! A can of
Swedish beer hiding at the back which Doc Pivo had brought along for me. Why
don't I slip into them all?
It's been a hot day, nearly 30C and I'm thinking of Eric Fouch crawling
around on his Michigan roof in the tutu I sent him last Christmas. Eric is
clearing ice dams but what I suspect is that he likes the idea of school
girls looking up at him in his skimpy tutu.
Eric you idiot! The tutu is for wearing in summer!
But I forgot, in summer Eric dresses up as Robin Hood and prances about in
the forest with his bow and arrow, shooting innocent deer.
And haven't we had more than an argument about that!
I'm also thinking of Steve Alexander who writes :
>Yes - I know that if you mention peach beer or rice lager in >the midst
>of a non-brew related tirade that janitors will give it a >'pass'. That
>the
>janitors are too polite to censor you doesn't mean you >shouldn't be
>polite enough censor yourselves.
But Steve, you should see just how much literature I try to post in here
that the janitors are constantly rejecting. What you get to read is just the
tip of the ice berg!
Steve, being the mercurial chap that he is, never really likes to let on
just what he is thinking. But reading between the lines, I don't think he
likes my posts.
So I have a philosophical variance to Steve in my approach to brewing. And I
have been rude. I am the first to admit it.
But Pete Calinski rattles me when he likens the posts to Shakespeare, and
the time it must take to compose them.
Pete, I have precious little time to be on this computer at all, and what I
have to say is only a fraction of what I am thinking.
It takes no time at all. But thanks for the compliment.
I'm sorry to learn you cannot decipher Shakespeare much better than you can
Aussie posts.
Anyway, with Christmas approaching and my New Year's resolution soon to be
in place, all the best to everyone.
In the mean time I'll sit back here in the garage drinking a peach wheat,
watching this thunderstorm and thinking
"I can just feel the serenity"
Surely this is what homebrewing is all about.
Cheers
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:03:09 +1100
From: craftbrewer@telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Yeast propagation question, The Dr P affect
G'day All
Well its crisis time here in North Queensland. Seems our border
control officers have reported a mad return of errant Nthers.
Something about "He's wants a bloody body surf again" was
one of many phases they stuttered has they sang praised of
to utopia.
Now this effect Dr Pivo is having on our populations while
disturbing is welcome, lost sheep returning and all that, but when
one heard him say "Is there any surf in Nth Qld, well
'action stations'. I summoned our Chief Security Officer -
(Mr Kevin McLean - Sir, most call him) from his border controls
at Sarina to an urgent meeting on making sure Dr P, come to
think of it, all male Sweds were shot on sight. The female version
was to be delivered to my bedroo.... opps interrogation room for f
further indepth analysis.
Now Kevin also had to partake the Sanders Ritual of sampling
all his samples of Belgian beauties, BdG's, and other high
strength beers (by your standards anyway). Mighty impressed he
was too, but when he wanted to try a Wit, well we cracked the
Wit keg for the first time. Now this is my wheat flour, lactic mash
bugger, and when I get the comment
"<expletive> this is better than Hoegaarden" I think he's just sucking
up to the boss.
But NO,. its one sh+t-hot beer. My best of the year. I'll give
you a full report another time but a great weekend. My Chief
Security Officer was poured into a car for his trip back home,
Nth Qld is now Pivo proof, And I can't wait for my Wit. One
great weekend.
But a question to the yeast plating specialist.
I have plated a yeast for a brew this weekend. I always do
two plates, just in case. Well just in case has arisen.
Both plates grew nicely. Now there are no real single colonies
(didn't want that, wanted more yeast mass) and they grew for
two days nice and white in colour. But bugger me if one has
turned bright orange. No fur, fuzzy edges etc, just bright orange.
Now I know its contamination, but would i be right in assuming
its some sort of bacteria growing with the yeast. And for
arguments sake lets say it is.
Could you isolate the yeast away from a contaminated sample
like that by continuously plating of young isolated colonies.
Its got me real curious.
Shout
Graham Sanders
Oh
Just had a scary thought. What if Dr Pivo cross dresses (like Phil)
I would hate to find out the hard way he is in utopia,
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:42:37 -0600
From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham@antennaproducts.com>
Subject: The Mad Scientiest
Steve,
I didn't know that Karl and Some Guy died and God appointed you the keeper
of the HBD, where you and only you can decide what can be posted. Steve,
believe it or not, post to the digest DO NOT have to be of the quality to be
in a scientific journal to be of interest to the majority of the readers.
Frankly, I page down when I see a Post with your name on it. If a vote,(I
can't believe I said vote after this past month) were to be taken, I would
say more people page down when they see your name than when they see the
Dr.'s, Phil's, or even the guy from North Queensland. It must be hard for
you to believe that to most people a hobby is something they do for fun.
When it ceases to be fun they find a new hobby. Brewing has been a hobby,
and fun for me since age 6 and I started helping my Dad 51 years ago. You
may be a Scientist, I don't know, If you are, brewing is not a hobby for you
according to Webster's U.S. English Dictionary. Webster description of
hobby: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in for
relaxation.
Just my 2 cents worth,
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:06:54 EDT
From: "james suchy" <grayling@provide.net>
Subject: Brewpubs in Cleveland
Hello All -
My wife and I will be in Cleveland (Ohio for you Oz types) on the 28th and would
like to hit a brewpub. We have already been to Great Lakes BC and Rocky River
BC and we would like to try a different one this time.
If anyone local has suggestions, let me know. Private e-mail would be great.
Cheers!
Jim Suchy
(0, 21 miles Rennerian)
- --
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:20:10 -0500
From: Anderson Andy W NSSC <AndersonRW@NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Spirit of Belgium
Hi,
Just a quick note to update people on the status of the 2001 Spirit
of Belgium, which will be held on January 13-14, 2001 in the Washington, DC
area. Thanks to overwhelming support, we sold out of tickets a full month
before the event. So, if you were waiting until the last momemnt to purchase
tickets, I'm afraid you waited too long. Also, we have a complete slate of
BJCP judges, so if you wanted to judge, but had not told us yet, I'm afraid
you waited too long.
However, you can still enter beers in the homebrew portion of this
festival. We are accepting entries from now through the first week of
January. See the web site at http://www.burp.org/SoB2001/ to download entry
forms and find out how to enter your beers.
If you are interested in good judging feedback on a Belgian ale you've
brewed, I encourage you to enter our contest. The judges are all of the
highest caliber. For example, all of the BJCP Grand Master judges will be in
attendance. Also, the BJCP judges from our homebrew club are presently in a
2-month training program to increase their skills with respect to Belgian
ales. Besides, look at it this way, if Michael Jackson sits on the BOS
table, don't you want him proclaiming your beer as the best homebrewed
example he has ever tasted? :-)
Prost,
Andy Anderson
2001 Spirit of Belgium
Homebrew Competition Organizer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:58:45 -0600
From: "Dave Hinrichs" <dhinrichs@quannon.com>
Subject: Stupid Brewer Trick
This past Saturday I sent about to brew two batches, a 10 gallons or a Red and 5
gallons IPA. Well despite the severe winter weather, 0dF windy, 6" new snow I
got the garage ready and whipped out the Red in good form. I then proceeded to
get the IPA going while the Red chilled via the garden hose and the immersion
chiller. Well with the rush to keep things moving on the IPA and getting the Red
into the carboys and other tasks I forgot to disconnect the garden hose and
bring it into the garage. So when I needed it to chill the IPA it was frozen
solid. As was the exterior faucet, which promptly broke when I tried to force
the valve closed.
* Dave Hinrichs
* Minnetonka, MN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:07:26 -0600
From: "M. Utes" <utes@fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Iron removal
You can remove iron from your well water by putting an aerator on your
faucet and filling two five gallon buckets (for a five gallon batch) about
five days before brewing. During that time the iron will precipitate to the
bottom and you can decant off the top for your strike and sparge water.
This works well and is the technique described in DeClerck, A Textbook of
Brewing, Volume I, page 84.
Mike Utes
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:22:40 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr@iquest.net>
Subject: Strange Brew--ATTENION MICROBIOLOGISTS
Cass,
I have seen this yellow fatty like infection 3 time in the 21 years I have been
brewing and making wine. The ones I had were yellow in color and floated in
blobs on top of the media. It almost resembled a yellow mushroom but it was
obviously not a fungal growth. I do not know what it is. I have been told
that it is a bacterial infection. I got it once on a batch of beer (beginners
misunderstanding of sanitation), again in an apple wine I concocted then the
third time on a cherry wine. Each were identical in appearance and effect. In
all cases it appeared after fermentation was complete, or nearly so. I
remember a taste reminiscent of butyric acid which I doubt anything short of a
missing sense of taste and smell would cover up. Even if I could mask the off
flavors I doubt that I would drink the stuff.
What i was wondering is if any of the biology/scientist types would identify
this creature and report back to the HBD. Would you have Cass package up a
sample and send it to you. I have been wondering what this nasty was for 17
years.
- --
Rod Prather, PooterDuude
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:03:57 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr@iquest.net>
Subject: Cylindro-Conical Fermenter
I remember a standard formula for a Cylindro-Conical Fermenter. The conical
portion is the length of the diameter. The cylinder is 2/3 the diameter.
1 gallon = 231 cubic inches.
25 gallons = 5776 cubic inches.
((Pi r^2)(2/3d)) + 1/3((Pi r^2)(d) = V
Should give you appropriate results.
A d of 20 inches is 6283 cu in. 27 Gallons.
A d of 21 inches is 7273 cu in. 31 gallons.
A d of 21.5 yields 7805 cu in. 33 gallons
I hope my formula for the volume of a cone is correct. Never was much at
geometry. 1/3((Pi r^2) h)
Don't forget head room for kreusen space. I think 20.5 inches and 21.5 inches
would be valid numbers for the diameter value of a 25 or 30 gallon fermenter
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:33:40 -0500
From: Martin_Brungard@urscorp.com
Subject: Re: bacteria in carbon filters
Richard added some good information that strongly confirmed the essence of
my original post where I suggest that carbon filters are notorious havens
for contamination. A portion of his post is quoted below.
"When such water is held quiescent, such as overnight in a carbon filter,
in an RO storage tank, or even in household plumbing, these heterotrophic
plate count (HPC) organisms typically multiply to 1,000 to 10,000 or more
colony-forming units per milliliter. But these are harmless organisms to
ingestion; they are not coliform or enteric pathogenetic bacteria."
The thing to recognize in the text above is that those organisms are
harmless to us....but they are still going to spoil your wort. And they are
multiplying in these pieces of equipment. Thank you Richard, this is just
the info we all need to support the fact that we MUST boil all water added
to our brewing endeavors. These spoilage creatures are waiting for us to
let them into our party! They may not be harmful to our guts, but they are
pretty nasty to our senses when we pop the keg or bottle top. Do the right
thing and boil all your water.
Bob Shotola wrote some additional items on septic systems that I can debunk
for all. Bob mentions those enzyme products that you buy and pour into your
septic system are going to keep your system going without other
maintenance. THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE indirectly promoted by these snake oil
salesmen. Bob, don't buy that stuff, it won't do any good. You still have
to pump out your tank eventually.
Unless you have poured a big slug of some sort of chemical down your system
that kills your septic system bugs, you will never need these products. The
other myth implied by these products is that they will extend the life
between septic system cleanouts. I'm pretty sure that these products do
state that regular pumpouts are still necessary, but they probably don't
make that too apparent since they want folks to buy their product at the
next sign of trouble instead of getting that pumpout.
A septic system is EXACTLY like our fermenters, only the critters are
different. We put an aqueous organic load into them and some critters eat
the organics and convert some of those things to other chemicals or into
the critters own body parts. Sediment naturally collects at the bottom of
the septic tank as the critters die or as heavy particles sink in the tank.
If we put batch after batch of wort in a fermenter, we would have a heck of
a yeast cake in there. After a while, we would start a eject the sludge out
the outlet instead of just the clarified fluid.
The bottom line is that septic tanks must be cleaned out on a regular basis
or the sludge will start flowing into the drain field and that will in-turn
get plugged up. This is the point when most homeowners figure out they have
a problem. By this time, its too late and the drain field is clogged and
has to be dug up and replaced. The only way to prevent this extra cost is
to pump out the septic tank on a regular basis. An engineer friend of mine
suggested that these tanks should be pumped out when each presidential
election is held (4 yrs). That seems entirely appropriate considering the
latest round of crap that just flowed through our election system ;-). I
have seen websites on septic tank care that I suggest anyone on a septic
tank check out. I'm sorry I don't have an address to guide you to now. In
general, 4 yrs should be conservative interval, but the interval is
dependant on the size of the tank and the number of people in the
household. If you have a big septic tank and there are only 1 or 2 people
living there, you could easily get 7 or more years out of it like Bob
apparently has.
I hope you folks enjoyed this line of crap! Use this 'valuable' knowledge
as needed.
Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:23:33 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick@zgi.com>
Subject: Beer Cuts Risk Of Cataracts And Heart Disease
Drink up!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/12/001218073252.htm
Happy Holidaze,
Domenick
Seattle, WA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:01:00 -0500
From: Jim Adwell <jimala2@ptd.net>
Subject: Beer, in moderation, cuts risk of cataracts and heart disease
I noticed this at Eurekalert:
http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/acs-bim120400.html
and thought ya'll might want to read it; notice that the darker the beer,
the better, but you knew that, right? :)
HONOLULU, Dec. 17 - When you're planning for that Super Bowl party next
month, be sure to include a six-pack of your favorite antioxidants. That's
right, antioxidants! Turns out that beer - in moderation, of course - is
chock-full of healthy stuff that can reduce the risk of cataracts and heart
disease, according to research presented here today at the 2000
International Chemical Congress of Pacific Basin Societies.
The weeklong scientific meeting, held once every five years, is hosted by
the American Chemical Society, in conjunction with its counterparts in
Australia, Canada, Japan and New Zealand.
Researchers in Canada and the United States presented results of animal
studies showing that beer, especially the darker ales and stouts, may
reduce the incidence of atherosclerosis and cataracts by as much as 50
percent.
Darker beers have more antioxidants than the lighter lager beers, according
to Canadian researchers John Trevithick, Ph.D., and Maurice Hirst, Ph.D.,
of the University of Western Ontario, and Joe Vinson, Ph.D., of the
University of Scranton in Pennsylvania. The Canadian team focused on
determining why antioxidants in beer seem to help reduce the risk of
cataracts, especially in diabetics. Vinson investigated beer's beneficial
effect in reducing the risk of heart disease.
In tests with rat lenses, Trevithick's laboratory found that antioxidants
that act similarly to those in beer protect special parts of cells in the
eye - called mitochondria. Damaged mitochondria can lead to an increased
incidence of cataracts.
The scientists discovered that putting the eye's lens under high glucose
stress - similar to what happens to diabetics when their glucose levels
rise - damages mitochondria in the lens' outer cells. Mitochondria are
responsible for converting glucose to energy.
"What often happens with diabetes is that the people don't get diagnosed
until they've had one or two episodes of really high blood glucose for a
period of time, like a day or two," Trevithick said. "That may be enough to
damage the lens."
"Antioxidants protect the mitochondria against this damage," according to
Trevithick. "We think that may be one of the factors that's contributing to
the lower risk of cataracts in people who have one drink a day."
The cost-benefit aspect of antioxidants and cataracts is very important,
Trevithick believes. He says cataract operations cost the U.S. Medicare
program about $4 billion a year. "If you could cut that by 50 percent,
you're saving over $2 billion a year. And that's just in the states."
Trevithick's daughter, Colleen Trevithick, now pursuing a Ph.D. at the
University of California, Los Angeles, is also involved in the beer
antioxidant studies. She is investigating which part of the brewing process
may contribute the antioxidants to beer and will present some of her
findings at the meeting.
At the University of Scranton, Vinson, a professor of chemistry, found that
giving hamsters the human equivalent of two beers a day halved their rate
of atherosclerosis. "This is a significant effect," he noted.
"Beer has a fair amount of antioxidants compared to other beverages,"
Vinson said. "There is a definite benefit from the antioxidants in the beer."
Previous research by others has shown similar health benefits from
antioxidants in wine. Likewise, the alcohol in beer and wine has been shown
to have beneficial effects against heart disease. But Vinson believes his
study is the first to specifically show that antioxidants in beer can add
to the alcohol benefit. "If you have an antioxidant in a beverage, like
beer, then you're getting an added benefit, in my opinion, at least from
the animal model." Vinson also is presenting the results of several other
studies at the meeting that show antioxidants in tea and grape juice can
help reduce atherosclerosis.
Jim's Brewery Pages:
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:49:09 -0800
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Long time no hear.
Hey all,
Geez...I leave for one month, come back to find that the tri of evil (Yates,
Pivo, and Sanders) have had contact with each other. Some is getting hung
for that one. At least Sanders didn't catch up with them in Aussie. I am
gonna have to adjust the old SWMBO robot. Damn...
Well, I finally moved and work settled down. Hell, I even got my roomates
into brewing (of course they think I am nuts for talking about crazy
therories such as HSA). That actually brewed their first batch without my
help. It was one of them John Bull things, not a make your own kit (it's
not my fault I swear). They didn't even talk to it when it was fermenting.
I had to love their beer for them. I am gonna have to start doing all-grain
soon so I can stay a step ahead of them. Ahh yes. A kitchen, backyard
all-grain is finally becoming a reality. No more bloody apartment.
I also was one of those dreaded 80 liner people Karl hated. Damn. Well, I
finally get to post a CONTENT message (read that Graham).
C <chow@engineer.com> had no carbonation with his beer that he bottled with
"3/4 cup dextrose". Is this the technical term for corn sugar? If not,
could you have accidentally bottled with dextrin? That could be an
overlooked problem. Then again, I am from California and we tried to elect
Gore, so I could easily be wrong.
I can't start brewing again until after Christmas, because work is got me
bent over the desk, but I am thinking 2 more extract batches (I have the
ingredients), then I am going all-grain. I am as excited as Graham's SWMBO
is gonna be tonight after I make my adjustments.
Enjoy.
Leland
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:01:30 +1100
From: "Phillipa Jarrett" <backcrk@tpg.com.au>
Subject:
From: BShotola@aol.com
Subject: A Certain Death?
>>So you wash the yeasties down the drain and they slide on down the pipe
into
the septic tank. >>
I wash mine down the septic, maybe it helps the process in the tank.
Speaking to knowledgable tank installers they suggest a dead feral cat to
kick off a new septic tank.
>>If, in the course of your usual pursuit of brewing sanitation, you wash a
few
glugs of bleach down the pipe, say when emptying a carboy, are you killing
your friendly bacteria in the septic tank? >>
When we started using a septic tank it was suggested to us by the local
authorities not to use clothes washing detergent with enzymes or to use
Napisan which is an Australian presoak/bleach/sanitising powder. I always
tip my bleach solution and my bottle washing solution of neopink on an
unwanted patch of weeds and not always in the same spot so there is not a
buildup of chemicals in one patch.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 05:15:02 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <docpivo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Aussie Microbiologists in the Loop?
I was at a micro where the brewer cultivates yeast from slants.
The brewer
was bemoaning the fact, that platinum loops seem not to be available
anymore.
It seems that they now offer an alloyed loop, and the brewer's
professor had concerns that the new alloy was yeast toxic.
Stuff that's way
out of my concerns, but I'd be very surprised if platinum loops are not
available any more, or if at least somebody out there in Aussie land doesn't
know where there is one just laying around that they'd like to sell.
I'm
just the emmisary on this one, but I'll pass on whaetever info anyone might
have.
It is, after all, for the continued production of good beer (and this
place had some dandies).
Dr. Pivo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:23:55 -0800
From: DAWNE TRENT & DAVID BRATTSTROM <davidb@cdepot.net>
Subject: MCAB 3
Dear fellow HBDers, MCAB 3 is coming to Northern California April 27-29th,
2001.
Since this is a grassroots effort to support home brewing, I am looking for
your personal support. It takes money to put on this event. I would like the
HBD readers to be a major sponsor. If each of us were to pony up a buck or
$5, or more to MCAB 3, we could have a homebrew event put on by home brewers
money. (I always have a twinge of odd feelings hitting up various breweries
for donations, when we are not willing to put up some of our own money
first. If even half of you sent in a buck we would be on our way to funding
a great tradition!
When you go to a club meeting, hit each member up for a buck!
If you have anything you would like to donate to our raffle send them to me
as well. If you would like to be a major sponsor, contact Mike Riddle at
riddle@sonic.net
Send all donations to
David Brattstrom
18150 Burke Dr.
Plymouth, CA 95669
Cheers
David Brattstrom
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3507, 12/19/00
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