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HOMEBREW Digest #3508
HOMEBREW Digest #3508 Wed 20 December 2000
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
***************************************************************
THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
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Contents:
liquid malt extract density (Jim Wilson)
quick hit the page down button.... (Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative)
OT: Response to help. ("Adrian Levi")
sake effect; cleaning corny kegs (ensmingr)
Janitors are grouse, replies (craftbrewer)
Aeration of Yeast Starters (Tony Barnsley)
Wimpy Woosey 'Girly' fruit Flavoured wheat beers (Tony Barnsley)
Comrade - Zymurgy (kreinhar)
Re: The Mad Scientist =>The Mad Texan (james r layton)
The dreaded "acceptable" content debate (David Harsh)
Graham's contaminant ("Alan Meeker")
Fwd: Top Cropping ("Darryl Newbury")
Regarding the definition of "hobby" ("Peed, John")
Fridge conversion (Beth Fuchs)
Re: bacteria in carbon filters ("Todd M. Snyder")
Old Yeast (John Adsit)
Ozonation (SGWESST)
Mad Science and Art ("Jim Bermingham")
My Freezer is Excreting! ("Drew Avis")
dye hopping (Charles Preston)
Huhwha? (Some Guy)
Brew Books and Equivalences for 1970's recipies ("Abby, Ellen and Alan")
Skunky Pilsner Urquell / Temperature controller ("Connor, Eric")
Re: bacteria in carbon filters (Martin_Brungard)
content ("Stephen Alexander")
more chilling thoughts ("Dr. Pivo")
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*
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JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:21:56 -0800
From: Jim Wilson <jim.wilson@home.net>
Subject: liquid malt extract density
I have some recipes that call for so many quarts of LME. Does anyone know
the density of LME so I can convert quarts to pounds?
o \o
__o /\ /
`\ <> `\ `> `\ >
(*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) (*)/ (*)
I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:31:27 +1100 (EST)
From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan@aus.sun.com>
Subject: quick hit the page down button....
Phil and Graham,
You both must take it easy on the xenophobes that inhabit the HBD.
Unfortunately the cutltural imperialism we are so used to swallowing
is a task that these folks are unable to handle once the tables are
turned.
Afterall, remember we must spell "colour" color, dont you know!
So pls Pat, as this post is absolutely non-beer related (such as the
political based posts of late and crap about drinking age) pls
make sure this gets posted....in bold.
I must say, that over the last 6 months the HBD has declined to
an overly technical, intolerant bore with little regard for the
spirit of brew-ship and helping fellow brewers out.
I think that you three should be ashamed of yourself for not
only enjoying yourselves, and brewing beer quite simply, but
actually being nice to each other.
shame shame shame!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:49:31 +1000
From: "Adrian Levi" <adrian@lefty.dyndns.org>
Subject: OT: Response to help.
Thanks to all who replied with e-mails giving me pointers,
Now I get to go and try them all out :-)
Wasn't expecting the volume of responses though.
Adrian Levi (note email change.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:35:05 -0500
From: ensmingr@twcny.rr.com
Subject: sake effect; cleaning corny kegs
1. An interesting observation:
My wife and I recently shared half a bottle of Hakusan sake
that we picked up while visiting their sakery in the Napa
Valley [see: http://www.hakusan.com/ ]. I (albeit very naive
about sake) enjoyed it, but my wife became very flushed and
warm after drinking only about 4 oz. What's going on? She
has never had this response when drinking wine or beer and
eats lots of rice with no such effect.
I recall that some people (~1/2 of Asians and ~1/3 of South
American Indians) develop a very similar reaction when
drinking any alcohol because they are deficient in aldehyde
dehydrogenase I (ALDH-I) and consequently accumulate
acetaldehyde when they drink [see: Goedde & Agarwal, 1989,
Alcoholism. Biochemical and Genetic Aspects. Pergamon, NY.]
EtOH ------> Acetaldehyde ------> Acetate ------> ...
ADH ALDH
Any connection here? Anyone have an explanation?
2. I keg my beer in ball lock kegs. Lately, I've noticed
buildup of "scale" (beerstone/calcium oxalate?) that is
difficult to scub off since I cannot fit my arm into the keg
opening. Boiling soapy water doesn't work and neither does
iodophor. I've also tried using vinegar to no avail. Can
anyone suggest a simple, safe, and inexpensive method that
uses readily available chemicals?
TIA for your help.
Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:12:53 +1100
From: craftbrewer@telstra.easymail.com.au
Subject: Janitors are grouse, replies
G'day All
Well stone the crows cobbers. I have been utterly left gutted by
what has happened to me. Now I can hear the clap-trap now
"what the heck is he about". Well after hearing the utter de-hiding,
mauling, and overall garotting of those janitors from both Steve
and Phil, (and Leland the latest) you picture these chaps not being
out of place with noted leaders like dear Sadam H.
well let me be taken by a croc when I see this........
"<expletive> this is better than Hoegaarden" I think he's just
sucking up to the boss..........
and as you know, sometimes I can add second meanings to my
posts as well, (and can sometimes go over the top) - so when I
see that things missing as well. Well I even more shocked , so
much that I talk to SWMBO.
"YOU KNOW, PAT AND KARL ARE REAL FAIR DINKUM"
It takes little to gain my respect, (sorry guys, just cant past that
chapter in the book 'How to crawl on your belly and look
civilised', but I guess I will actually have to try harder to clean
my act up. Sorry to the rest of you, but I feel i owe it to my new
mates.
So I have called my security officer. Mortein has been issued
to all guards. Its just the right strength. If that cockroach tries
to sneak in, well one spray and I should have enough time to
get there to see the last twitch of that bastards content free head.
And Dr P is covered. We have staked Fosters bloated tourists at
regular intervals for his next body surfing trip. True he will take
great delight popping them off, but will expunge Dr Pivo at the
same breath. True in the content free world (and brain it seems)
he has become accustomed to he asks
>>>>Subject: Aussie Microbiologists in the Loop?
I was at a micro where the brewer cultivates yeast from slants.
The brewer was bemoaning the fact, that platinum loops seem
not to be available anymore.<<<
And whats wrong with what all Nth Qlders use, Stainless Steel,
I may ask
Now there were sooo many things lately that begged my input.
The talk about beer v s+x education would have given me hugh
scope to leave the dingo fence gate open, but I feel I owe one
to my new mates.
Even this one will be left alone
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Long time no hear.
I can't start brewing again until after Christmas, because work is
got me bent over the desk, but I am thinking 2 more extract
batches (I have the ingredients), then I am going all-grain. I am
as excited as Graham's SWMBO is gonna be tonight after I make
my adjustments.<<<<
The mind does wonder thou.
But all of you lot out there. Dont pity Phil, He deserves it, dont pity
Dr Pivo, nothing there anyway, dont pity me, I look down on you,
No, pity poor Jim.
From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham@antennaproducts.com>
Subject: The Mad Scientiest<<<<
After this brave effort I fear he will not survive to the weekend.
Wading into this debate makes about enough sense as
someone kissing a cane toad
But to be game to say this
>>>brewing is not a hobby for you
according to Webster's U.S. English Dictionary. Webster
description of hobby: a pursuit outside one's regular occupation
engaged in for relaxation.
Just my 2 cents worth,<<<<
Well very wise words, worthy of at least a few dollars. Spend it
phoning me if you need a shoulder to cry on.
So I must go, as I still am in shock on developments on the HBD.
Worse still, the humour Index has climbed to 5.7. I would do
something about it, but I can barely type this.
Shout
Graham Sanders
Oh
its good to see Phil has picked up some good traits from the
North. I have influenced the man in the short time
I kicked him out.
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates@acenet.com.au>
Subject: Can't You Just Feel The Serenity?<<<<
Substitute Nth Qld for Burradoo and you would not know the
difference
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:17:05 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley@blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Aeration of Yeast Starters
Firstly Thanks to all those who replied to my original post about aerating
my yeast starters. (Not You Baron! :> )
Perhaps I should have been clearer, My normal procedure is to step up to
around the 20L mark, then crash chill, decant of the liquid, and pitch the
slurry. What I want to achieve is to grow enough yeast (not make beer) to
pitch the same quantity of slurry without that massive final step.
I like the idea of anti foam agents, but will probably cobble together some
sort of a magnet on a motor shaft, to move the media around.
(The next bit is contentless so only really applies to Aussies, Swedes, and
any other person with a sense of humour)
Now as to the Screaming Bolshy Baron of Burradoo (Which I still think could
be a s*xual Offence! )
> YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING FANCY FOR YEAST STARTERS!!
Absolutely agreed milord. (You didn't expect that did you?). I've managed
for years with a 0ne pint (UK) milk bottle, my lag times were in the order
of 36-48 hours. Over the last three years I have changed to a 1 litre
starter, with shorter lag times, 4 litre starter, with lags in the 24 hour
range. And a subsequent improvement in the final product. With all of these
methods I'm really only getting a maximum of 150 ml of yeast slurry, which
is just about the right level for pitching 50L of ales. The final step to 20
litres gives me around 300ml. So I'm not getting optimum growth in my yeast
starters, and probably not pitching healthiest yeast.
All I want to do is see if oxygen replenishment in the starter medium
results in an improvement in my beer. All it costs was 1.75Ukp for a
Disposable HEPA filter and 8.99ukp for an air pump which I can use in the
kiddies aquarium later on.
> please don't come in here trying to convince practical, sensible and
> humorous brewers that all this crap is necessary!
Absolutely not, If what I do makes a difference to my beer using my
equipment, in my environment, than that's my good luck. There's no way that
I will say that it will work for you, Pivo, or even Steve. After all A
bucket of malted grain and water left in a warm place will turn into alcohol
(and other stuff), which is the way beor used to be made (way back when).
Its a good job someone found a more reliable way AND TOLD OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT
IT! I for one would probably be teetotal If they hadn't :>
Donning the white asbestos coat and running for cover before Marilyn gets
over here ;->
> Sorry about the bandwidth
LOL! ROTFL! No you're not! come on admit it!
- --
Wassail!
The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:36:37 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley@blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Wimpy Woosey 'Girly' fruit Flavoured wheat beers
And another thing milord.
I remember the last time I took your advice ( ;-'> ), I still have a corny
full of wheat beer that under your urging I added our surplus strawberries
to. How can anyone drink this stuff? Even more actually LIKE IT!
Anyone like some 18 month old Strawberry Wheat Beer? Thing that amazes me is
its still sound, Even the bacteria around here don't like it :>
- --
Wassail!
The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361)
Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Where men are men and beer tastes like . . . . Well Beer really
(and sheep are scared)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:12:24 -0500
From: kreinhar@clarksteel.com
Subject: Comrade - Zymurgy
I'm within 30 days of buying a Brew Comrade from Yvon at Stainless Seel
Specialties, as seen in Zymurgy.
First, does anyone have any experience with this system? I'm also
wondering about the actual transaction - unit ships to me after check
clears, what is the prudent way to protect oneself when sending this kind
of money into Canada?
Private email is fine. Thanks Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:26:16 -0600
From: james r layton <blutick@juno.com>
Subject: Re: The Mad Scientist =>The Mad Texan
Jim Bermingham, fellow Texan, jumped into the ongoing sniping contest
between Steve Alexander and the fun bunch. It ain't my fight, but I'd
like everyone to know that I appreciate Steve's contributions to this
forum.
I've been reading this digest for several years. I've even read all of
the old issues in the archives. This latest tiff is just a variation of
the old art vs. science argument that comes up every once in a while. It
will pass. It will return. Pretty boring argument after a while,
especially when it goes beyond the philosophical and starts getting
personal. As far as flame wars go, this is hardly a spark compared to the
weeks preceding the meltdown when the AHA was administering the digest.
That was a venomous period.
Anyone remember old John Wylie "Coyote"? There was a guy that had fun
with his brewing and it carried over in his posts. I don't recall that he
ever criticized anyone's posts for lack of humor or for being overly
technical.
Folks come and go from this forum. You don't hear much from some of the
great technical contributors of the past. Jim Busch, for one, taught me
more in a few weeks of reading this digest than I have learned before or
since. I still read this digest in the hope that I might pick up a neat
equipment idea, a new technique, or a new insight into what goes on
between the plowed field and a great glass of beer. I still get that from
time to time, that's why I still read HBD. I can get comedy on TV but I
come here for brewing education. I'm sure that others enjoy reading the
silly stuff and that is fine by me. And yes, I really do enjoy this
hobby.
My page down key works just fine. I use it fairly often and it doesn't
bother me a bit to do so. I read everyone's posts at first. After a
while I can tell if they are likely to contribute anything of interest to
me. As for who should post here, I'll leave that to the janitors. Thanks,
Pat. Thanks, Karl. You do good work.
Jim Layton
Howe, TX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:36:40 -0500
From: David Harsh <dharsh@fuse.net>
Subject: The dreaded "acceptable" content debate
Yo-
I hate to enter this, but I tend to page down any time I see posts from
Sweden, Australia or Mr. Alexander. Why? The technical posts don't
tell things I don't already know. I took plenty of biochem during my
school days and even remember some of it. The Australian posts usually
don't talk about homebrewing, just lots of inside humor (to some,
apparently). And as far as docpivo goes, I ignore anybody who doesn't
sign his real name, whether from Jeff Irvine or his doppelganger.
As far as a poll to see what should be allowed, be careful what you ask
for. I'll defend anybody's right to post what I consider a waste of
bandwidth as long as they'll defend my right to use my page down key
when I feel like it.
Just to make this beer related, here's some biochem content for you:
A substrate changed by an enzyme
Initially in unit time
Varies, if not in excess
With substrate concentration, [S]
This relationship was first contrived
As Briggs and Haldane first derived
And if we choose a steady state
Velocity and [S] relate
(to the tune of 'O Tannenbaum'; authored by someone else with several
more verses)
Jim Bermingham- I'll argue whether a scientist can enjoy the technical
side of brewing and still call it a hobby. Personally, if you do it in
your free time, I think its a hobby. Think about it - a professional
brewmaster can brew at home and call it a hobby, can't he?
Too many people forget that the beauty of homebrewing is that you can
get into all kinds of different issues: agriculture, anthropology,
process engineering, welding, biochemistry, microbiology, electronics
and automation, history... The list is endless. The best part is that
you can ignore the parts that don't interest you- and get into as much
detail as you want in the parts that do. As hobbyists, homebrewers are
unique in that we admit our obsession. Someone with a whole room
donated to toy trains will insist its just relaxation. But we know better!
Just a reminder that diverse views are acceptable.
Dave Harsh
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:23:43 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker@mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Graham's contaminant
Graham writes:
"Both plates grew nicely. Now there are no real single colonies
(didn't want that, wanted more yeast mass) and they grew for
two days nice and white in colour. But bugger me if one has
turned bright orange. No fur, fuzzy edges etc, just bright orange."
I think now you see that you /did/ want single colonies (or at least you
should have). This is usually the primary reason for plating out the yeast -
to isolate pure single colonies that you can then use to initiate a larger,
usually liquid, culture. If it was more yeast mass you wanted then liquid is
the way to go anyway as it is more efficient. The orange growth is either a
contaminant (bacterial or other) or a mutant, but in either case should be
avoided.
"Could you isolate the yeast away from a contaminated sample
like that by continuously plating of young isolated colonies.
Its got me real curious."
Yes, another good use of plating is to isolate pure yeast colonies away from
contaminating organisms. You can do this either by streaking or by dilution
plating. e-mail me if you want the details...
-Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:39:03 -0500
From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl@sagedesign.com>
Subject: Fwd: Top Cropping
Greetings folks,
I'm planning on brewing with Whitelabs EastCoast yeast a couple of times
over the holidays and its reputed to be a very good top cropper. The
problem is, I've only ever bottomed cropped yeast. Does anybody have
useful advice on proper techniques for top cropping?
Thanks Darryl
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:17:07 -0500
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed@elotouch.com>
Subject: Regarding the definition of "hobby"
I always liked Dave Barry's comment, something to the effect of: "There's a
fine line between hobby and mental illness."
Thanks to all for the advice on hop flavor. I have achieved it, though I
now have to back up and be a little more methodical to compare the various
ways of getting there. I added an ounce of hops to the mash, then several
additions late in the boil. That sure did the trick. I do intend to
specifically compare mash hopping, full wort hopping and late-boil-addition
hopping to see which I prefer. For now though, I'm just happy to have
achieved that flavor. It sure does wonders for a beer! Thanks again.
John
___________________________
John Peed
Applications Engineer
Elo TouchSystems, Inc.
412 North Cedar Bluff Rd
Suite 402
Knoxville, TN 37923
Tel: (865) 694 1735
Fax: (865) 694 1731
E-Mail: jpeed@elotouch.com
www.elotouch.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:26:46 -0700
From: Beth Fuchs <bfuchs@chtm.unm.edu>
Subject: Fridge conversion
Hello all-
I know that this has been discussed before, but I'm having problems with
web page access right now so can't search the archives. Forgive me for the
repeated questions, but this will be something good for all the newbies to
hear anyway.
I have a beer fridge in my garage. My beer hating husband, as a gift for
me, is preparing to run lines through the side of the beer fridge, through
the wall of the house into the kitchen where we will put taps on the wall.
Are there any major pitfalls he should be aware of? He would like to do
this between Christmas and New Years so I can use them for my annual New
Year's Eve party.
Thanks in advance.
Beth Fuchs
Research Engineer
Center for High Technology Materials
University of New Mexico
1313 Goddard SE
Albuquerque, NM 87106
(505) 272-7844 office
(505) 272-7801 fax
bfuchs@chtm.unm.edu e-mail
http://www.chtm.unm.edu web page
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:44:41 -0500
From: "Todd M. Snyder" <tmsnyder@buffalo.edu>
Subject: Re: bacteria in carbon filters
Greetings and salutations fellow fermentors,
Richard wrote: "When such water is held quiescent, such as overnight in
a carbon filter, in an RO storage tank, or even in household plumbing,
these heterotrophic plate count (HPC) organisms typically multiply to
1,000 to 10,000 or more colony-forming units per milliliter."
Martin followed: "they are still going to spoil your wort. And they are
multiplying in these pieces of equipment. Thank you Richard, this is
just the info we all need to support the fact that we MUST boil all
water added to our brewing endeavors."
Note that in the above, I prefer to use the voice of a level headed
scientist type when reading Richard's words, and a willy-nilly
old-wife-relating-a-passed-down-blown-out-of-proportion-myth voice when
reading Martin's. The difference is about 3 octaves. It's the same voice
I use when reading an aluminum-should-never-be-used-for-brewing thread.
Anyway, after reading Richard's initial posting I was at first
concerned. 10,000 per mL sounds like a lot. Then I checked out Danstar's
FAQ website:
http://www.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/beerfaq.html#rehydrate
According to Danstar, their dry yeast packets contain 20 billion cells/g
and they're 5 g packs, so 100 billion cells. In 23 L or 23,000 mL, thats
4.3 million/mL if you get 100% survival. Assuming poor storage (room
temperature for a year) and no rehydration, you'll end up with 60%
killed according to Danstar, that's still 1.7 million yeast/mL.
1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000 bacteria
is going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and yeast multiply a
whole lot quicker than bacteria while quickly creating an environment
hostile to bacteria. It's what they do and have always done to
outcompete bacteria for food! Unfortunately, the only quote I can think
of to end this on is, "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!"
Cheers!
Todd Snyder
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:01:46 -0700
From: John Adsit <jadsit@jeffco.k12.co.us>
Subject: Old Yeast
"If you love your yeasties, set them free."
--Sting
When my yeast are done with their job, I set them free. I add them to
the compost pile, where they are free to forage about in search of food,
pass the time with various microbes, lie dormant, or do whatever yeast
prefer to do in the wild.
- --
John Adsit
Boulder, Colorado
jadsit@jeffco.k12.co.us
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:39:05 EST
From: SGWESST@aol.com
Subject: Ozonation
Our city is the first in Texas to change from chlorine water treatment to
ozonation.Does anyone know what if any effect this will have on our brew
water preparation?
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:01:47 -0600
From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham@antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Mad Science and Art
Rick Magnan sent an e-mail to me telling me he enjoyed the fun part of
brewing as well as the scientific part. I agree, "Fun & Good Beer" is a lot
of what it is all about. The back and forth battering, and the comradery
with other brewers is also what it is about. Phil does have the art of
rambling, but he also has good input to the digest. It may not be
scientific but it remains good input. That's why I say you don't have to be
a scientist to brew good beer or have fun brewing.
Too often when someone starts out brewing their own beer they want to make
every type of beer known to mankind. They want to make the British Browns,
Bitters, Sessions, Stouts and Porters. They try to make the Belgians, the
Scottish Ales and German Ales. Then they turn to the Lagers. A great deal
of the time when beginners do this, they don't make very good beers. They
either get disappointed and quit the hobby or listen to someone like Steve
who says that good beer can only be achieved by good science. Then they try
science to correct the faults. The only science you need is how to correct
your water for the type of beer you are brewing. Send a sample of your
water off to get analyzed and go from there.
Brewing good beer is simple. Limit yourself to 2 - 3 types of beers and
master these. You need to be consistent. A particular beer should taste
the same each time you make it. Time after time after time. After you
master these beers you can deviate from your recipe. Take your basic wheat
beer. You can alter your pitching rate, or your fermenting temp. and get a
different tasting beer. You can add peaches, berries or cherries and have
different beers. Add honey or molasses, use some toasted or roasted grain.
All of these things will change the taste of your beer, but, keep the same
basic recipe and keep good records. Good records are the key to reproducing
beer. Don't cheat on these records by writing that your extraction points
were better than they were, you sparged slower than you did or you didn't
add hops when you did.
This isn't science, it isn't art. It is mastering 3 basic beers, keeping
good records and playing "what if" by substituting ingredients one at a time
and recording the results.
To say you can only make good beer if you use science just isn't true. Now
if you enjoy doing the science thing...Go for it.
Happy Holidays,
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:47:17
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis@hotmail.com>
Subject: My Freezer is Excreting!
Season's Greetings, fellow brewers! Thanks to those who shared their rodent
brewing tips and tricks - I think I can use the mousetrap carboy to safely
lager my bock with enough washing and sanitizing. My new slogan is
"rodentbock, isn't it time you got a little tail?" I'm sure Graham Sanders
would like it.
On to the Freezenator. I keep a cloth handy to the freezer to wipe up any
beer drops & spills, as well as condensation, in an attempt to keep the
Black Mold at bay. I was trying to wipe up what I thought was some spilled
beer, but it was *way* stickier. I realized it was some sort of brownish
liquid goo that's seeping through a seam. The seam is between what looks
like a housing (for the compressor?) and the wall of the freezer - it's a
rounded protrusion in one corner on which I sit yeast starters.
What is this stuff? Is there something I can do to stop the excretion?
Fridge Guy, can you help???
Cheers!
Drew Avis - Brewing Mausebock in the swamps of Eastern Ontario
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:24:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Charles Preston <cp1811@yahoo.com>
Subject: dye hopping
That's right, I said DYE hopping. Worked this way:
took a nylon stocking (wife's) boiled it about 4 times
to remove what I thought was all the dye. Put a plug
of Saaz in the stocking and placed it in a keg of Cap.
I also took 2 plugs of EKG and put it the stocking
(not the crotch area) placed it a pale ale. Later on I
can taste some remaining dye. So my advice is either
use a fine mesh bag, or if you use a nylon stocking
boil the dye completely out. What kind of thing do any
of you use for the 'bag' when dry hopping? Especially
if you're using pellets? BTW, the beer is still
decent, but not what we're shooting for. I don't
particularly detect any great improvement over late
hop additions. Charlie in Mansfield, Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:05:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: Huhwha?
Greetings, Beerlings? Take me to your lager...
What's a fair dinkum? Sounds like something to do with one's urinary
tract. And isn't a grousse a game bird? So the Janitors are game birds
with something wrong in their urinary tracts? I just don't get it...
(We know, Pat. And you never will...)
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:25:05 -0400
From: "Abby, Ellen and Alan" <elal@pei.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Brew Books and Equivalences for 1970's recipies
I was looking through David Line's "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy"
from 1978 and I realized that it provides a picture of late 1970's beers
from the perspective of an experienced supper and brewer. I suppose
some of the beers he describes may no longer exist.
First, are there other recipie books from other eras which set a picture
of the beers of the day? [I am aware from the historical brewing news
groups of texts from 1700 or so back to the puddle full of grain 12654
BC.] I was thinking more of book on contemporary style copying from a
few decades before Dave Line, say 1910's or 1880's.
Also, Dave Line uses saccharin where I would imagine lactose would be
preferred. Any idea of how I might establish the equiivalence in
lactose of 5 saccharin tablets?
Alan McLeod
PEI Canada
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:30:30 -0600
From: "Connor, Eric" <EConnor@SedgwickCMS.com>
Subject: Skunky Pilsner Urquell / Temperature controller
A few months back I purchased a six-pack of PU and upon opening
the first bottle I was greeted by the distinct aroma of skunk. Not wanting
to run the remainder of the bottles back to the store, I
decided to attempt to "reform" the five remaining bottles. I remember
reading (could have been dreaming) that if you kept a light struck
beer cold and out of the light, the skunk would go away. So, I placed
the five bottles in the back lower shelf of the refrigerator and every
few weeks open one. Well, I can now report that after more than two
months of "de-skunking" efforts, the beer still smelled and tasted like
skunk. Next time I'll take it back. Also now I purchase in twelve pack
that are mostly sealed to light. Anyone else ever hear of a way to de-
skunk beer?
I also would like to say that I started craft brewing at
home on 1/1/00 with equipment my wife purchased for me as a
Christmas present. After brewing 15 times in 20 weekends she was
wondering what she was could have been thinking about when she
bought it.
I moved on to whole grain after I
did a partial mash and tasted a great improvement over extracts. So I
bought a JSP mill Gott coolers and then "had" to go to kegging in
cornies. SHMBO was no longer amused. The one thing that saved me
was that I had a full kitchen in the basement so I could keep the smell
and mess down there. Then I ran into a problem as the floor of this
old house was wood over a rough poured concrete and a spot in the
kitchen was rotting through. When I went to pull up that section of the
floor, I found all the underlayment was rotted. There were two other
rooms in the basement that also had wooden floors, so I decided to
pull them up at the same time. Well one thing led to another and I
etc). I intended to have concrete poured in the fall but could not get a
contractor to do it because they had outside work that was more
profitable. Now that its winter (Chicago area) The price of concrete
goes so high that its to expensive to do now. When things are done
I'll have a very nice basement brewery. Because I have not been able
to brew for months, SWMBO was feeling sorry for me and allowed
me to purchase a chest freezer, so when I am up and running again
I could do real lagers.
After all that, here's the question. I would like to get a temperature
controller that is programmable so I can set it all at once to gradually
lower the temps at specific times. Any information would be
appreciated.
Eric
Edge of Legal Basement Brewery
Forest Park, just west of Chicago
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:04:29 -0500
From: Martin_Brungard@urscorp.com
Subject: Re: bacteria in carbon filters
Todd Snyder made a good point with his post regarding bacteria that I've
excerpted below:
"1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000 bacteria is
going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and yeast multiply a whole
lot quicker than bacteria while quickly creating an environment hostile to
bacteria. It's what they do and have always done to outcompete bacteria for
food!"
I'll bet that we all agree that pitching a large population of yeast is a
very good defense to microbial infection. I agree that the pitching level
quoted above is great, outnumbering the bacteria by a large margin. But the
real problem is that some bacteria and other microbes can still survive and
thrive even when the yeast have done their part to make the environment
generally inhospitable to others.
I estimate that many of our 'casual' microbial infections only have several
thousand or million cells. You know...a few critters on dust particles,
sticking your finger in the wort, that drop of sweat falling off your
brow...etc. I am pretty sure that is why we generally don't have more
infection problems than we do.
But in the case of a contaminated water filter, we could be adding a much
higher cell count to the wort when we add non-sterile water. Combine this
with the fact that there are still sugars and other components of wort that
yeast cannot or do not consume. A good population of microbes can still
survive and thrive on these dregs, ultimately spoiling the beer.
Todd, I agree that most of us don't have an infection problem and we can
"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!", but we should be armed with the
decent knowledge of the risks of not using adequate precautions. I still
say that the simple step of boiling all water added to wort is prudent.
Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:28:26 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: content
Charles Babbage held organ grinders in low esteen, but he gave up his
disagreements when he realized their monkies spit and threw feces. I feel
much the same after seeing a call to *try* to follow forum policy ridiculed,
distorted and vilified by folk who can only be called deceitful in their
mischaracterization and libelous in their personal attacks.
I'm here because I'm interested in brewing and beer related matters. Humor,
politics, plaids and miscellany have a place as part of that, as long as the
trend is mostly about brewing. I NEVER had an issue with the technical
content nor humor of brewing posts. Nor even the occasional off-topic
fling. The issue is the regular volumes of 100% off-topic posts by a few
who think it humorous. Several here, a few who separately post brewing
stuff too, are so enamored of their comedic talent that they inflict it on
3000+ subscribers of a brewing forum in regular, repeated and voluminous
quantities with no brewing content. Apparently that is what the
readership generally wants.
I never imagined my enzyme kinetics posts would have a huge following.
It's hard to follow in this medium and the pay-off only comes in the final
episodes - several downstream from here. What I never expected is made
clear from on & off-line comments. The majority opinion is violently
opposed to such posts. I'll see if I can get these posted elsewhere and
drop a note for the few interested. If not I'll post them here in quick
succession and take any questions offline - wouldn't want to rile the
monkeys when armed.
Apologies for either stumbling into the Humorous Burradoo Digest or
suggesting the HBD posts generally should be about brewing. My mistake.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 05:42:53 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <docpivo@hotmail.com>
Subject: more chilling thoughts
I believe it was someone named Keith Brown (I am on a machine who's
processor does about 2 hz, and couldn't possibly get back and forth to
verify this, all in the same day), who gave a nice description of a counter
flow chiller that greatly improved his cooling, and concluded something
like:
"you shouldn't have to use your immersion chiller any more".
Which,
well and truly you shouldn't HAVE to.
The thing is, that you still can, and
suddenly get amasing results from it.
As many people have noticed, the
immersion chiller works much better, if you have some movement: either the
wort, or the chiller.
This is the 'ol conduction vs. convection thing,
which you probably either already know, or the mention of those words, won't
bring any clarity at all.... let's leave it at "if either the wort or the
cooling coils are moving around, you GREATLY reduce your cooling times with
an immersion cooler.
Ways people have delt with this are 1) to stand there
shaking your cooler (we call this "the method of Onan") 2) have an automatic
cooler shaker (such as my "jump valve") or 3) having a wort stirrer.
The
thing is, if you are using BOTH a counterflow and an immersion chiller, then
you are continually pulling wort out through the counterflow, which means
you are continually MOVING wort past the immersion cooler...... in other
words you are getting "convection" for "free".
You can split your feed
lines of cooling water to each (I suppose) or couple them in series. I do
the latter, letting the counterflow get the cooling water first and then
feeding to the immersion.
I will gurantee that using both in that manner,
is FAR better that what you would expect after using each one
individually.
Now the only thing lacking, is a great acronym for this so we
can be sure that anyone new to this forum will be thoroughly confused, and
that we who are "in the know", can feel sufficiently proud of ourselves.
I
was going to suggest: Juxtaposed Unilateral Sytemic Transient - Serial
Hybrid Immersion Technique, but changed my mind.
Dr. Pivo
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3508, 12/20/00
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