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HOMEBREW Digest #3509
HOMEBREW Digest #3509 Thu 21 December 2000
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
***************************************************************
THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
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Contents:
Brew Comarade (Cynthia Pekarik)
Mash Hopping - Qty of Hops Required? (Tony Barnsley)
READING is fundamental ("Stephen Alexander")
LME Density (Ken Schwartz)
Re: cleaning corny kegs (jal)
Prolific And Preposterous ("Phil & Jill Yates")
Re: quick hit the page down button (Rick Magnan)
re: "dye" hopping ("Kensler, Paul")
Top Croping Yeast, Enzyme Kinetics ("AYOTTE, ROGER C")
Re: Enzyme Kinetics (Michael Friesema)
Here we go again ("Paul Niebergall")
Pity Me Please! ("Jim Bermingham")
Re: bacteria in carbon filters (Steve)
Sense of humor (LaBorde, Ronald)
Do Aussies have a life? ("FatCat")
TSP for cleaning? ("Peed, John")
Bottled Water, Enzyme Kinetics (Doug Hurst)
Re: Ozonation (Demonick)
bacteria vs yeast ("Alan Meeker")
Re: Chilling Thoughts ("Daniel C Stedman")
Merry Christmas ("Paul Niebergall")
Buiding my own PID controller + CFC ("Info")
Fridge conversion & Black goo too (fridgeguy)
Recipe Challenge (Bob Hall)
Some CAP questions ("Russ Hobaugh")
Filter bacteria; mash in vs. dough in; now, now! ("Pat Babcock")
the Coyote (Brian Pickerill)
BEER (Matthew t Marino)
I must take umbrage ("Eric Fouch")
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:22:57 -0500
From: Cynthia Pekarik <74163.1163@compuserve.com>
Subject: Brew Comarade
Kevin
I first met Yvon of Stainless Steel Specialists 4 years ago at festibere in
Chambly, Quebec.
Each year they have a booth at the fest & brew with a brew comrade & 5
barrel system. The
wort is sold & $$$ go to a fund helping crippled children.
The equipment made by SSS is first rate. They have fabricated & installed
for Les Brasseurs
du Nord Brewers brewery, Dieu du Ciel Brew Pub (one of the best pubs in
Montreal) & Greg
Noonans Seven Barrel Brewery ( Greg praises SSS work at the back of the 7
barrel book) to
name a few. When I was at yvons shop in Nov 99, they were building a turn
key brew pub
for a company in france. SSS have a good reputation in the brewing
industry.
And Yvon homebrews!!
I bought a 50 litre conical fermenter & love it.
Brew comarade is well made & the crew at SSS would bend over backwards to
help their
customers.
Yvon is an honest person & I believe your money would be well spent.
I am not affilliated with SSS but must admit I now consider Yvon & Norman
at SSS buddies.
Larry Kress
RR# 2, Rockwood, Ontario Canada
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:41:27 -0000
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley@blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Mash Hopping - Qty of Hops Required?
Hi Mash hopping proponents
I am brewing a (NOT AT ALL A) Bohemian Pilsner 45Litres OG 1.048, 40 IBU's
with the following Hop Schedule
Pacific Gem (15% aa) 90 mins 36g ( 1.25 oz ) (26.0% Utilisation)
Saaz (3.1% aa) 60 mins 24g ( 0.875 oz ) (24.3% Utilisation)
Saaz (3.1% aa) 30 mins 16g ( 0.5 oz ) (18.6% Utilisation)
Saaz (3.1% aa) 15 mins 24g ( 0.875 oz ) (12.0% Utilisation)
Saaz (3.1% aa) 0 mins 27g ( 1 oz ) ( 0.0% Utilisation)
Apart from the Pacific Gem all the Saaz are type 90 Pellets, and I was
planning on adding the 0 Minute Saaz addition as Mash hops, In view of the
quantities that some of you quote for Mash Hop Additions I have considered
using up to 100g (Hey, I've got to use these pellets up somehow, I need the
space in the freezer).
Any Comments (Steady Milord!)
- --
Wassail!
The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361)
Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK
UK HOMEBREW - A Forum on Home Brewing in the UK
Managed by home brewers for home brewers
To Subscribe send blank email to uk-homebrew-subscribe@smartgroups.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:38:23 -0500
From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: READING is fundamental
In the past few days posts I have found a number
of false statements posted regarding my position.
Among these,
that I am opposed to low technical quality posts,
that I am opposed to humor in posts,
that I have trashed the janitors,
that I am opposed to Australian posts (the xenophobe card),
that I am involved in a science vs art argument.
Why the false claims ? Because I wrote ...
>This forum is for all topics regarding beer and brewing.
>It's the politics (mea culpa) and blather that are inappropriate.
And suggested,
>I'd strongly
>prefer that you each decided to post about brewing, but if you decide
>otherwise, then why not follow HBD policy and post somewhere else ?
and
>That the janitors are too polite to censor you doesn't mean you
>shouldn't be polite enough censor yourselves.
Some people "heard" something different, but they were listening to
their own bile and prejudices, not my words.
-S
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 06:02:43 -0700
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob@elp.rr.com>
Subject: LME Density
Jim Wilson asks about converting quarts of LME to pounds.
I recently discovered that 6 lb of William's Nut Brown extract occupies
about 1/2 gallon of space. Using this you can take the quarts called
for times 3 to get pounds. (Pounds = quarts x 3).
- --
*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob@elp.rr.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:08:55 -0600 (CST)
From: jal@novia.net
Subject: Re: cleaning corny kegs
Peter Ensminger writes:
___________________________________________
2. I keg my beer in ball lock kegs. Lately, I've noticed
buildup of "scale" (beerstone/calcium oxalate?) that is
difficult to scub off since I cannot fit my arm into the keg
opening. Boiling soapy water doesn't work and neither does
iodophor. I've also tried using vinegar to no avail. Can
anyone suggest a simple, safe, and inexpensive method that
uses readily available chemicals?
___________________________________________
I've had good luck using dishwasher detergent and a toilet
brush (one that has never seen a toilet) to scrub my kegs.
Use the plainest, least adulterated detergent you can find.
("Sheeting Action" is not what we're looking for here.) Wear
gloves and rinse with hot water. The use of dishwasher detergent
was posted in this forum many years ago.
Jim Larsen
Omaha
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:12:14 +1100
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates@acenet.com.au>
Subject: Prolific And Preposterous
I have been accused of both and I don't take offence at either accusation.
It really isn't that important to me.
I enjoy my brewing and I enjoy the beer I make.
I enjoy other's brews as well (Wes' in particular and Regan's most
definitely).
I have enjoyed my time associated with the HBD.
(Though I really am due to pass on some money - Pat, it will be coming I
promise). You can appreciate that a basic brewer with a phobia about science
doesn't get to stay in here without paying an awful lot of money! And every
month Pat keeps upping my dues.
Now Mr s (and the lower case is appropriate) makes reference to libellous
personal attacks. Oh dear!!, don't tell me he is going to sue me?
Pat, can you give me a line of credit for a month or two?
Looks like I will have to buy him a brand new dummy as it seems he has spat
out the last one I sent him and lost it!
Now all this verbal biffo was supposed to be a bit of fun.
It wasn't meant to take over the HBD.
It wasn't meant to even actually upset anyone.
Funny thing is, when someone actually does a dummy spit, a great round of
cheering erupts from the audience.
Some of you out there are a sick lot.
Eric, if it is you involved, please ask your mates to stop egging me on with
their "go for it" emails.
I do genuinely feel sorry for Steve.
I wish I could help him.
I am going to tack onto my "be nice to everyone" resolution a requirement to
put some content back into my posts. And I am going to ask Jill to keep a
whole packet of dummies in the cupboard. Just in case I upset anyone else.
Cheers
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:02:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Magnan <magnan@jimmy.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: quick hit the page down button
> From: Scott Morgan - Sun On-Line Telesales Representative <Scott.Morgan@aus.s\
un.com>
> Phil and Graham,
>
> You both must take it easy on the xenophobes that inhabit the HBD.
>
> Unfortunately the cutltural imperialism we are so used to swallowing
> is a task that these folks are unable to handle once the tables are
> turned.
Xenophobes? Please, thats like doing 90 in the 50 zone and saying
you were pulled over for the colo(u)r of your car.
Historically there has been vastly more whining and crying and
complaining over "overly technical posts". Steve has a point - humor
is always welcome and he's been posting for 5 years at least, not
complaining about off topic posts - but exclusively posting non-brewing
related material is bad form at best, regardless from where you're
sending it.
I agree with both sides in this issue over content, its all welcome
really, but it is the *homebrew* digest and its nice to keep the
majority of the conversation on beer and making it (all the while
admitting that many of my favorite posts have had very little to do
with beer).
Rick
Wellesley MA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:20:29 -0500
From: "Kensler, Paul" <Paul.Kensler@Cyberstar.com>
Subject: re: "dye" hopping
Charles Preston asked: "What kind of thing do any of you use for the 'bag'
when dry hopping? Especially if you're using pellets?"
I use very fine-mesh cotton bags from HopTech (NA, JASC, YYY). They are
basically a little pouch with a drawstring, 100% un-dyed cotton. Works
great, even with pellets. And they are pretty durable so I have gotten
several uses out of them - after use I rinse them and run them through the
washing machine. Before using again I soak them in PBW and sanitizer -
basically the same treatment I give my kegs before I rack the beer in.
For what its worth I also bought the Teflon hop weight - shatterproof,
boilable, non-reactive... I'm very hoppy with my dry-hopping setup. Check
out HopTech's web page at www.hoptech.com <http://www.hoptech.com> .
Hope this helps,
Paul Kensler
Gaithersburg, MD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:02:00 -0500
From: "AYOTTE, ROGER C" <RCAYOT@solutia.com>
Subject: Top Croping Yeast, Enzyme Kinetics
Regarding Darryl's request for information on Top Cropping YEasts:
"I'm planning on brewing with Whitelabs EastCoast yeast a couple of
times over the holidays and its reputed to be a very good top
cropper. The problem is, I've only ever bottomed cropped yeast.
Does anybody have useful advice on proper techniques for top
cropping?"
Darryl, one of my favorite topics is harvesting top cropping
yeasts! The benefits are:
1. This is live active yeast (yeast that settle to the bottom or
harvested after a trying ferment may not be as healthy).
2. The yeast that rise to the surface are generally free of trub,
hop particles etc, pure active yeast.
The procedure I use requires the use of an "open" fermenter, a 7
gallon plastic fermenter that has a lid, but is not tightly snapped
on. The beer is brewed and yeast pitched as usual. I use a
stainless steel spoon to scrape off the foam that appears at the
very beginning, usually one day if temp/pitching rate is normal
(for me). This initial stuff is usually loaded with hop resin and
proteins that are not very useful. After the first scraping, which
I discard, I monitor the fermentation daily or twice daily (am pm)
and scrape off the yeast cake, leaving the darker older stuff that
sticks to the sides of the pail. This is placed into a sanitized
quart mason jar and placed in the refrigerator with the cap loosely
on. After several days the generation of yeast slows down and if
you don't like diacetyl, you better rack to a carboy and fit it
with a fermentation lock. I usually then wait until fermentation
stops, and place my beer in the fridge to crash and clear the
yeast. The yeast in the mason jar usually settles out into a layer
on the bottom of the mason jar, I usually tighten the lid at this
time and keep it refrigerated. This yeast is good for about three
weeks. The next time I brew, I add some wort directly from the
outlet of my counter flow wort chiller to the mason jar at the
beginning of the cooling process. By the time I am done filling
the pail with my chilled wort, the yeast have kicked into action
and I pitch this directly into the wort and let it go.
A couple of things here. I discovered this process (It was
discovery for me, didn't have the HBD then) after examining the
effluent from a "blow off" type of arrangement. The blown off
stuff looked very much like it had yeast settling on the bottom of
the jar into which the overflow went into. I tried to harvest
enough yeast this way (as la Burton Union type arrangement) but was
not happy. It was then that I went back to my open fermenter
procedure and actually saved the "scrapings" which I used to throw
away! In fact I only followed this scrape off the foam thing
because it was recommended by Fred Echardt (sp?) in his "A Treatise
on Lager Beer" published when I first started brewing beer in the
70's. This was the ONLY readily available information on
homebrewing at the time and I will tell you there is nothing like
trying to make beer without information!
On to next topic:
Enzyme Kinetics:
Steve, keep up the series. Ignore the snipe.
Roger Ayotte
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:10:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Friesema <mike_friesema@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Enzyme Kinetics
I only started homebrewing this past year and enjoy it
very much for a variety of reasons. Among these
reasons is the chance to learn many new things and in
line with that, the HBD has been very helpful. I have
not posted before but now feel compelled to say that I
too have appreciated the opportunity to read the
postings by Steve Alexander on Enzyme Kinetics. I
certainly can understand that his posts are not for
everybody but I'm disturbed that some people, rather
than just using the page down key are hell bent on
getting such posts off the board.
Steve - if you continue posting in some other forum,
please let me know where they can be found.
Mike Friesema
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:24:04 -0600
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb@burnsmcd.com>
Subject: Here we go again
Steve, Steve, Steve,
Don't get mad. I few misguided people actually do enjoy your
artless content posts. The biggest problem is one of ATTITUDE.
I (and I assume most others here) had enough lectures in school.
Trying to play the part of the Perfessor and trying to get us all to
behave as your students is condescending. Think about some
of the things that you said:
>Several here, a few who separately post brewing stuff too, are
>so enamored of their comedic talent that they inflict it on
>3000+ subscribers of a brewing forum in regular, repeated and
>voluminous quantities with no brewing content.
Please replace the words "comedic talent" with "self serving scientific
dialog". Then take a deep look inward and you may eventually get the idea.
I could just as easily starting posting portions of MY textbooks
concerning porous media flow (in regard to lauter tun design) and
go on forever and ever until people are bored to tears. All of the
my own high opinion of my vast scientific knowledge
of this subject. I do not do this because I have enough respect for
the HBD readership to spare them of this assault to their intellects.
(There are also more pleasurable forms of self-gratification just
ask Phil)
>I never imagined my enzyme kinetics posts would have a huge following.
>It's hard to follow in this medium and the pay-off only comes in the final
>episodes - several downstream from here.
>If not I'll post them here in quick succession and take any
>questions offline - wouldn't want to rile the
>monkeys when armed.
"Huge following", "pay-offs" from your vast knowledge, Monkeys??
Thank you for reminding us exactly where you stand.
(I forgot that you are God and we are your monkey students.)
That type of attitude will get you real far.
Paul N.
(and you thought I was gone or something)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:18:00 -0600
From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham@antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Pity Me Please!
Steve,
Please don't stop posting. I apologize to you and to the populace. I was
wrong. More people want the scientific post and not the pitiful attempts at
humor coming from Phil, he should be banned from the HBD.
It is taking most of my mornings the past two days to read all e-mails
coming to your defense. Hope you noticed in my latest post I talked about
battering boy, have I been Battered. After my post yesterday I have been
accused of being a closet scientist. The what if's I have been practicing
in business the past 40 years is really scientific experiments. As our
outgoing president said it is all according of what your definition of "is"
is. But, I have ordered a lab coat.
I certainly am glad I'm from Texas where we don't take these things too
serious, with the exception of craft brewers from Howe, that is. But I have
noticed that there is more post to the HBD now that we are once again
debating science, art and good common sense.
Wishing You All The Merriest of Christmas and the Happiest Of New Year,
Hanukkah, and Ramadan,
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:36:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve <gravelse@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: bacteria in carbon filters
Hi All,
I've been reading the posts about bacteria and contamination in your
pipes and water filters, I have to chuckle. I'm pretty clean and
sanitary with my brewing process, but I stopped obsessing about it
after I saw a picture in one of the books about beer around the
world. There was a picture of a brewer in a dark, exposed post and
beam (and cobweb) celler in Europe somewhere. The brewer was holding
a candle in one of those old fashion candle holders with the wax
catcher on the bottom as he was leaning over a vat sampling some of
his beer. Now, I know that's the opposite end of the cleanliness
spectrum and I try to stay close to the opposite end but within
reason.
Here are several views on the subject:
Richard wrote: "When such water is held quiescent, such as overnight
in a carbon filter, in an RO storage tank, or even in household
plumbing, these heterotrophic plate count (HPC) organisms typically
multiply to 1,000 to 10,000 or more colony-forming units per
milliliter."
Martin followed: "they are still going to spoil your wort. And they
are multiplying in these pieces of equipment. Thank you Richard, this
is just the info we all need to support the fact that we MUST boil
all
water added to our brewing endeavors."
Todd countered with: "According to Danstar, their dry yeast packets
contain 20 billion cells/g and they're 5 g packs, so 100 billion
cells. In 23 L or 23,000 mL, thats 4.3 million/mL" snip "that's still
1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000
bacteria that's going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and
yeast multiply a whole lot quicker than bacteria"
I'm in agreement with Todd, and I would like to point to a couple of
techniques that I do in my brewing process that should alleviate any
problems:
1. I boil my wort for at least an hour, and
2. I soak my fermenter in Iodophor for at leat 1/2 hour and then let
it drip dry prior to putting any boiled wort in it.
I think this will defeat any bacterial "problems" in the water.
Uh, Oh!... I occasionally rinse the fermenter with a spray of hot
water when I get that black residue from the Iodophor! Is my beer
ruined! ;^)
I'm just pointing out that we all have our obsessions. Please excuse
me now, I HAVE TO straighten the fringe on the carpet, someone walked
on it again! The nerve!
Steve Gravel
Portsmouth, Rhode Island
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby, it's an obsession!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:49:50 -0600
From: rlabor@lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Sense of humor
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley@blackpool.gov.uk>
>....(The next bit is contentless so only really applies to Aussies, Swedes,
and
>any other person with a sense of humour).....
Sense of humor?? Yes, but even a keen sense of humor will lie lifeless
unless humor IS PRESENT! Humor, yes, pabulum, no.
Ron La Borde
Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor@lsuhsc.edu
http://hbd.org/rlaborde
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:07:43 -0500
From: "FatCat" <fatcat@homebrew.com>
Subject: Do Aussies have a life?
After viewing, for some months now, the massive
verbage of the Australian brewers (actually, we
assume they are brewers, based on their posts they
may actually be frustrated comics, ah yes, it
seems some one from the 'outside' has visited
them) one must wonder if these people have, like
an actual, life. Tons of humorous (?) bandwidth
directed against one and all must take a huge
amount of time. They must truly enjoy the
leeway they are granted in their choice of
'language'. After all, 'bugger' is defined as:
1. to perform anal sex or 2. to be the insertive
partmer in anal sex, most commonly in reference
to activities performed on 1st and 2nd formers
by uppers and dons in English public schools.
Oh well, to keep this beer related, the US Border
Cantina, in Alpharetta, GA is definitely worth
a visit.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:04:54 -0500
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed@elotouch.com>
Subject: TSP for cleaning?
Anybody use tri sodium phosphate as a cleaning agent? I use 1 teaspoon per
gallon, with a good hot water rinse. I've read in at least one source that
it's fine for use as a homebrew equipment cleanser as long as it's
warm-water rinsed (I assume hot is better). I haven't died yet, and am
brewing some decent beers, so I assume it's fine. Anyone have any comment
on using TSP as a cleaning agent?
And BTW, if the HBD were a meeting and I had to sit through a verbal
presentation of everything that everyone had to say, I would be leading the
squabble over content. Thankfully, though, it's on-line and the scroll bars
work fine. With apologies to Stevie Wonder:
Ranters, keep on ranting.
Pontificators, keep expounding.
World, keep on turnin',
I can always just scroll down.
John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:06:14 -0600
From: Doug Hurst <DougH@theshowdept.com>
Subject: Bottled Water, Enzyme Kinetics
This has probably been discussed before, but with the current discussion
regarding microbes in tap water, I thought I'd bring it up. I usually
purchase 2.5 gallon jugs of spring water for brewing because it tastes
better than my tap water. Does anyone know whether bottled water is microbe
free?
When I make an all grain brew it all gets boiled so it doesn't matter. When
I make an extract batch, I only boil about half of the water. I've never
had an infection from bottled water but that doesn't mean there weren't any
microbes in it. Of course there are other issues with bottled water too,
like not knowing the mineral content.
Alright I'll bite. Steven Alexander writes:
"...The majority opinion is violently opposed to such posts [Enzyme
Kinetics]. I'll see if I can get these posted elsewhere and drop a note for
the few interested. If not I'll post them here in quick succession and take
any questions offline - wouldn't want to rile the monkeys when armed."
I, for one, believe such posts are what make the HBD valuable. I don't
understand why anyone would be opposed to them. If this forum is not the
place for posts that delve into the details of brewing then let me know
where to find them and I will go there. I read the HBD to learn more about
brewing and improve my skills. I admit that my understanding of organic
chemistry is very low, but I still find useful information in detailed
scientific posts. After all, brewing is fundamentally about science. Of
course it's an art and a joyous hobby too, but those wouldn't exist without
the science. So please keep up the good work, I'll be reading.
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 08:36:26 -0800
From: Demonick <demonick@zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Ozonation
From: SGWESST@aol.com
>Our city is the first in Texas to change from chlorine water treatment to
>ozonation.Does anyone know what if any effect this will have on our brew
>water preparation?
Lucky you! Ozone sanitation is great for brewers. The levels that
make it to the tap are insignificant to yeast and it adds no off
flavors or ill effects.
You do need to check that the water department is not just adding
ozonation and moving from chlorine to chloramines.
Ozonation is mostly a point of origin technique, meaning that it ensures
sanitation as the water leaves the plant. Since the O3 breaks down and
escapes quickly not much is left at the consumer end (point of delivery).
Most water departments use a combination of sanitation methods to ensure
point of origin AND point of delivery sanitation.
Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152 phone
(206) 782-6766 fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com
FREE PrimeTab SAMPLES! Enough for three 5 gallon batches. Fax, phone, or
email: name, shipping address (no P.O.B.) and phone number. (I won't
call. It's for UPS in case of delivery problems). Sorry, lower 48 only.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:40:42 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker@mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: bacteria vs yeast
Todd posted:
>1.7 million yeast going head to head against less than 10,000 bacteria
>is going to be a one sided battle. It's >174 to 1, and yeast multiply a
>whole lot quicker than bacteria while quickly creating an environment
>hostile to bacteria. It's what they do and have always done to
>outcompete bacteria for food! Unfortunately, the only quote I can think
>of to end this on is, "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!"
Actually, most bacteria will divide much more rapidly than our little yeast
buddies. Bacterial generation times are often on the order of tens of
minutes while yeast take hours. This is understandable when you consider how
much more complex yeast are than bacteria (our own cells take about 24 hours
to reproduce). For the case you mentioned above (174 yeast :1 bacteria), if
you assume a 2 hour generation time for the yeast and a 30 minute generation
time for the bacteria, then by the end of 6 hours you'll instead have about
4:1 in favor of the bacteria!
You are right however that the yeast will quickly change the environment by
lowering the pH, depleting available oxygen, and producing ethanol, making
it difficult for most bacteria to thrive. Of course, this will become harder
to do if there are fewer yeast to begin with or if the contamination burden
is high initially, underscoring the benefits of pitching sufficient viable
yeast and marinating sanitation throughout, respectively.
"Pitch High, Keep Clean THEN Relax, Don't Worry, and Have a GOOD Homebrew!"
-Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:02:01 -0600
From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman"@uhc.com>
Subject: Re: Chilling Thoughts
>"you shouldn't have to use your immersion chiller any more".
>The thing is, that you still can, and
>suddenly get amazing results from it.
Hmmm... Sorry Doc - I don't buy it. My intuition tells me that you would just be
using twice as much water for a miniscule cooling gain. Most counterflow
chillers typically cool the wort down to within 5 degrees of the cooling water
temperature (my Maxichiller chills to within 2 degrees). So even if your
immersion chiller drops your average wort temperature down from 212 to 160
before entering the counterflow (which is generous), you would still only drop
an additional degree or two on your final temperature. Seems like a lot of extra
trouble and water consumption for virtually nothing...
Dan in Minnetonka (who just posted 100% brewing-related content! Yeah!)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:10:49 -0600
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb@burnsmcd.com>
Subject: Merry Christmas
O.K. I have had it with the blather of the digest lately. Steve has forced
me to join the ranks of the enlightened few. As my own personal
Christmas gift to each and every one of you, I shall be posting
installments (each week throughout the entire year of 2001) of my
own personal scientific masturbation. I hope you all enjoy this as much
as I do. (Try not to get any on you!) .
Part 1 - Lauter Tun Flow:
Let's develop a three-dimensional flow equation that is the basis of
many groundwater flow models that can be used to simulate the flow
of wort threw a lauter tun. Applying the conservation of mass principle
and Darcy's law to a representative elemental volume of saturated
lauter tun material, one can derive the following unsteady-state, partial
differential equation for the head distribution in a three-dimensional,
non-homogeneous, anisotropic flow system where the coordinate
system axes coincide with the principal directions of the hydraulic
conductivity tensor:
d/dX [Kxx dH/dX] + d/dY [Kyy dH/dY] + d/dZ [Kzz dH/dZ] +
W(X,Y,Z,t) = Ss dH/dT (eq 1-1)
(Note in equation 1-1 above that d is the symbol for a "partial differential".
Next time we will explore the meaning of partial differentials with several
excerpts from Newton's Principia Mathematician, for those of you who
need to brush up on your calculus.)
H is the total head at any point in the lauter system; Kxx, Kyy, Kzz
are the principal components of the hydraulic tensor; Ss is the specific
storage of the grain medium; and W represents the internal sources or
sinks such as the lauter outlet. Under certain conditions, lauter outlets
or extraction points within the lauter system may be described
mathematically by three Dirac delta functions. In this case, W would equal:
W = SIGMA (i=1 to n) Qi d (X-Xi d (Y-Yi) d (Z-Zi) (eq 1-2)
Where Qi is the extraction rate of wort through the lauter outlet;
Xi, Yi, and Zi are the three-dimensional coordinates of the lauter
outlet; and N is the number of outlets (usually 1 for most home
set ups). Note that the Dirac Delta functions in space have
units of reciprocal length (1/L).
Next week we shall explore various numerical solutions to the above
equations and how the Peclet number effects the stability of the solving
process. (For your homework assignment, I ask that you all please brush
up on your linear algebra theory as I will be solving many complex matrices
in development of a steady state solution to the problem and I don't want
anybody to get lost .)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Monkeys: You must respect my Authoritii!
(God I am so smart. I could go on like this forever!).
Shall I go on?
Paul Niebergall
Burns & McDonnell
pnieb@burnsmcd.com
"Illegitimis non carborundum"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:05:41 -0300
From: "Info" <info@alean.com.ar>
Subject: Buiding my own PID controller + CFC
1)I would like to get some help on constructing my own PID controller.
I'm living in Argentina and I don't have the possibility to buy here one just
ready for our application.
Does some one have electricall drawings or CAD drawings + photos from a proben
PID?
All the info you can send me to build it here will be marvelous.
2) I want to make a counterflow chiller with copper inside and outside ( 1/2"+
3/8")
Does some one expirience in how to turn both tubes (one inside the other)
without damaging or bending them?
Do you think 6 meters is enough to get 20 celcius at the output of the CFC?
Tips or suggestions are wellcome.
Please e-mail me to:
info@alean.com.ar
Best Regards,
Mauricio Wagner
Buenos - Aires
Argentina
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:14:35 -0500
From: fridgeguy@voyager.net
Subject: Fridge conversion & Black goo too
Greetings folks,
In HBD# 3508, Beth Fuchs asked for tips concerning cutting holes in
the side of her fridge for beer and CO2 lines.
Fortunately, most fridges don't have anything but insulation in their
side walls. Refrigerant lines and wiring usually run up the back or
corners of the fridge. Having said that, proceed with caution!
First, unplug the fridge. Next I'd suggest starting from the inside
and cut the hole through just the plastic fridge interior. Now slowly
remove the insulation between the interior and outer skin in the area
where the lines will go.
The idea is to move any wires or lines you may encounter out of
harm's way before cutting into them. I use an old dull screwdriver for
this. Foam insulation will crumble as it is probed so I use a shop vac
to clear it from the hole.
When the hole is clear, use a punch to make an indentation in the
outer skin in the center of where the hole is to be located. Now drill
the outer skin from the outside of the fridge. I like to use a
"Unibit", which is a stepped drill bit made for drilling thin sheet
metal.
When the holes are drilled and lines run, be sure to seal around the
lines with a silicone caulk or plumber's putty to help prevent
moisture from entering the insulation.
In the same digest, Drew Avis is concerned about a mysterious
brownish-black goo weeping from a seam in his freezer. In many
(usually older) freezers a tar-like sealer was used on cabinet
interior seams. It is common for this to eventually work its way
through the seam and doesn't cause a problem other than looking bad.
It may be possible to stop the goo by allowing the freezer to warm to
room temperature. Clean and dry the interior and caulk the seams with
a mildew-resistant silicone caulk.
Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy@voyager.net
- --
Is your email secure? http://www.pop3now.com
(c) 1998-2000 secureFront Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:02:25 +0000
From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh@nwoca.org>
Subject: Recipe Challenge
Ok folks, we're nearing the end of the semester, and it's time for your
exam (plus a little fun). Below are your clues:
"Golden Ale: A crisp, lager-like blonde ale brewed with Vienna malt for
superior smoothness. Refreshing and brisk, this beer has a sweet, floral
aroma, and is an excellent introduction to the world of fresh,
microbrewed beers."
Given this brief information, what recipe would you concoct to best fit
the description? Include yeast and hops.
We often try to clone brews we've tasted, and I thought it might be fun
to compare variations of a "virtual" beer. I'll collect and post
submissions and try to crank out a batch or two over the holidays.
Seasons Greetings,
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:02:11 -0500
From: "Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh@erm.com>
Subject: Some CAP questions
I was inspired by Jeff Renner's article on CAPs in Zymurgy, so I plan
on brewing one next week, because I finally got a temp. control for my
beer fridge. Any recomendations for the following?
8.5 #s 6 row pale malt
2 #s flaked maize
.5 # munich malt
Mash in at 153 for 60 minutes.
FWH with 1 oz of Hallertaur Mittel.
.5 oz of Cluster for 60 min.
1 oz Hall. Mittel. for 5 minutes
I think the grain is good, but am not sure about the hops. Any and all
comments appreciated.
Russ Hobaugh
Goob' Dog Brewery, Birdsboro PA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:20:57 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <babcockp@mediaone.net>
Subject: Filter bacteria; mash in vs. dough in; now, now!
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
I've been a long-time carbon filter advocate. I've also left the filter for
days or weeks between uses with little thought of any sanitation. Is someone
in the readership actually experimenting with this? If so, I've a question:
If you run water through the filter for, say, five minutes prior to using
the outflow, what is the results in the level of contamination? Like I said,
I've been using my filters for years with never a thought to this, and nary
a problem - now you've got me all paranoid!
And another question! I've always understood (or simply thought...) that the
difference between mash in and dough in was one is adding grain to water,
the other water to grain, respectively. My question is which manner is
superior? I've never had a problem with dough ball in the grain to water
method, which is how I've been doing it lately, but, frankly, I can't
remember if I've ever done it the other way (old age, I guess). What're the
opinions out there?
Finally, there are a lot of different personalities out there, and people
are attracted to the Digest for differing reasons. I gently ask those who
have been publishing solely for the humor of it to restrain themselves,
taking care that the non-brewing content doesn't outweigh the brewing
content in the Digest. On the other hand, I will not demand that anyone flat
out stop, nor is it within our capacity to ban anyone from the Digest. I
also ask those who would criticize other posters to take a step back, count
ten, and ensure that they are well grounded before doing lodging any
complaints. Perceptions vary. What one finds drivel others find useful.
The current rancor on the Digest, in conjunction with the free time
available due to the US Automakers' Christmas break, forces the Janitors to
enforce the policy with respect to brewing content to the letter. On the
downside, I now have to read each and every post coming into the queue
rather than simply recognizing the contributor's name. So much for free
time...
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:23:50 -0500
From: Brian Pickerill <bpickerill@mac.com>
Subject: the Coyote
>Anyone remember old John Wylie "Coyote"?
Yeah! Those of you who don't should read the archives.
- --Brian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:47:26 -0700
From: Matthew t Marino <mattncherie@juno.com>
Subject: BEER
A while back there was some question as to re-pitching yeast from the
primary or the secondary fermentation. In "First Steps in Yeast Culture"
by Pierre Rajotte, (an excellent text on culturing yeast!) he basically
says that while the secondary may be cleaner in terms of trub, hop
particles, etc. it also would also contain more bacteria and wild yeasts
due to the fact that they are lighter in weight and dont settle as
readily as brewers yeast. In the secondary there is minimal CO2 buoyoncy
to keep the lighter particles suspended. He goes on to say that it may
not catch up to you until the 3rd or 4th batch. This of course would
only be relavent to a brew that had some contamination to begin with. So
if you know your clean it probably doesnt matter but if your unsure go
with the primary or better yet start a new yeast. I find that repitched
yeast is lways more vigorous and quicker to attenuate as long as its
reasonably fresh and clean. I also would like to recomend the easy
masher to anyone interested in starting all grain mashing. I've been
using it for 5 or so brews now and its great as far as efficiency,
clarity, and speed of the run off. I especialy like the fact that you
can directly heat the mash without scorching it. I' mashed for 4 years
with other set ups copper manifol and stainless perforated false bottoms
and the em is nicer for me than anything else.
"From Grain to Brain"
MADMAN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:30:08 -0500
From: "Eric Fouch" <airrick147@hotmail.com>
Subject: I must take umbrage
The cane toads must have gotten to the Ozzies:
>From the bowels of PhillJill:
"
Eric is clearing ice dams but what I suspect is that he likes the idea of
school girls looking up at him in his skimpy tutu.
Eric you idiot! The tutu is for wearing in summer!
But I forgot, in summer Eric dresses up as Robin Hood and prances about in
the forest with his bow and arrow, shooting innocent deer.
"
First off, I have taken into account the fragility of the neighborhood as a
whole. That and my modesty forces me to wear wursted polypropylene thermals
under my tutu's while prancing on the roof. Besides, roof ice works well to
chill down the recirculation ice bath.
The cold weather is also allowing me to circumvent the fact that my
brewerator is on the blink: I dug out my trusty Son-Of-Fermentation
chiller, hooked up a lamp to my controller, and Bob's your Uncle! A nifty
in-the-garage lagering oven!
And as far as dressing up as Robin Hood and shooting "innocent" deer, three
comments:
1) Robin Hood never wore Oaktree Skyline Breakup camo.
2) It was self defense, and
3) If you can't look up into the big brown eyes of a deer and pull the
trigger, you might as well be wearing a tutu. Without the thermals, that
is.
Another finely crafted note brought to you from the mind of Airrick147.
OK- Supermonkey helped. A little.
"Two bodies of mass cannot occupy the same space at the same time. But we
could still hold each other real close."
-SM
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3509, 12/21/00
*************************************
-------
