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HOMEBREW Digest #3423
HOMEBREW Digest #3423 Wed 06 September 2000
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Wyeast 3522, Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde ("Warren White")
re: Counter-Flow Cooling Efficiency ("Richard Pass")
Re: lacking curiosity ("Warren White")
Re: Lychee Lambic ("Warren White")
Whitelabs experience ("Richard Sieben")
Mini Keg Relieph Bung (Dan Listermann)
More Chloramine ("A. J.")
Jason's Minor Misquote (Thepfhb)
The matter of one Lynne O'Conner (Some Guy)
Star San and cold weather lagering ("Kevin Jones")
Alt Grain Bills/Oat Beers ("Fred Waltman")
re: HBD Illustrated? (John_E_Schnupp)
herbs in beer ("Mark Ellis")
(Steve Lacey)
Mashed potato in mash (Steve Lacey)
mesuring SG (Edward Doernberg)
Charlie P,fwh ("Graham Sanders")
anti-oxidants and rusty parts ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
HSA and "C" spices ("Peter J. Calinski")
Re:electric stove, new gas burner (Matthew Comstock)
HSA and boiling and transfer technique (Dave Burley)
Homegrown hops (Richard_R_Gontarek)
RE: HBD Illustrated? (LaBorde, Ronald)
RE: Krauzening vs. new yeast charge ("Frank J. Russo")
Starter woes ("Daniel C Stedman")
Re: Spent grains bread ("Hubert Hanghofer")
looking for good set of tastebuds in Ottawa ("Alan McKay")
*
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 08:33:06 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63@hotmail.com>
Subject: Wyeast 3522, Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde
Thank you all and sundry for your posts/emails on Wyeast 3522 (Belgian
Ardennes)...
My Tripel is now in the secondary, the 3522 took about 12 days to ferment
down from 1095 to 1020 which was surprisingly good because one or two emails
I received told me that this yeast has a habit of stopping a bit on the high
side.
Just to make sure of a low F.G. I added 2 litres of fermenting wort
(krausen) to the secondary, I always think that this is a good idea in a
strong ale (1) because krausening eliminates most oxygen pickup which may
occur during transfer to the secondary, (2) because hopefully it will drop
the F.G. a little and give a lower terminal gravity and a slightly drier
finish (desirable in a Tripel) and (3) it usually eliminates a little
diacetyl.
The yeast seems to give a fair whack of Phenolic/Clove aroma, I'm pretty
happy with that as it's pretty much a common thing in a lot of Tripels that
I've tried it's also got a peppery sort of spice note to it.
On the whole I'd say that the 3522 is a pretty well-behaved sort of yeast,
sort of plodded along at about 20-21c (68-70F), goes a little sluggish at
anything below 18c (65F) (please excuse my celcius to farenheit conversions,
may not be 100% right) and gave a very small krausen (not as rocky and
volatile as I thought it would).
Second question. I want to be a bit of a wanker and put some of my Tripel in
champagne bottles "A La Grand Reserve" My question being as follows... How
the bloody hell does one get these corks into the bottle? You know the type
of corks I mean... The ones that look like little mushrooms thus eliminating
the need for a corkscrew! I'm guessing you need some special sort of device
in no way related to your regular bench capper, would I be right?
Finally my SO purchased some exquisite wassails for my imbibing pleasure on
AFL (Australian Rules) Grand Final day one of them being "La Fin Du Monde" I
believe this magnificent interpretation of the Triplel style (far better
than some of the Tripels I sampled in Brussells) hails all the way from
Quebec? It arrived here albeit expensive $6.50 Australian a bottle in very
remarkable condition, even at this price I'll be off for a couple more of
these! 9% Alc. but with a taste that very much belies it's strength! Has
anybody else tried it? Do they think that it compares well with the likes of
Westmalle, this may be a bold comparison but I think "La Fin Du Monde" is
that good that it almost deserves the same stage. My only complaint with it
was a slight amount of autolysis in the yeast.
Warren L. White - Melbourne, Australia (Essendon Suck!)
A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of
nothing.
Oscar Wilde
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:42:46 +1000
From: "Richard Pass" <richard.pass@anu.edu.au>
Subject: re: Counter-Flow Cooling Efficiency
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:11:04 -0700
From: "Peter Zien" <PZ.JDZINC@worldnet.att.net>
<< My counter-flow wort chiller has a 1/2" inner diameter wort
inflow/outflow
and usually cools 5 gallons of wort in 10 minutes to within 4 degrees F of
the source water. With the summer source water temperature in the
mid-80F's, I employ an immersion chiller in an ice- bucket to pre-cool the
source water prior to its flowing through the counter-flow chiller. The
source water is run at high through the system, and the wort out-flow is
restricted some by clamp to increase the time the wort spends within the
cooling coils. Although the temperature of the source water is in the
mid-50F's, the wort is only cooled to 76F. Why is my wort cooling
efficiency so poor when employing an ice-bucket and immersion chiller to
pre-cool the source water?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Peter Zien >>
Peter,
my guess is that the ice immersion coil restricts the flow of your coolant.
Heat transfer efficiency is a function of flow rate as well as temperature
of coolant.
Richard Pass
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 10:33:53 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: lacking curiosity
Stephen Alexander writes....
That was my point. It's a decent intro book but it doesn't contain the
detail needed to undertake more challenging procedures, nor to grow IMO.
If you have several all-grain brews under your belt (sic) and still find
that all your questions have been answered in Charlie's books - you lack
curiosity.
********************************
Contrary to what Stephen says I DON'T lack curiosity he's probably right
about TCJOHB being a little passe and also lacks info pertaining to more
challenging procedures but I think that you get to a certain stage in
Homebrewing where you read and read and the information that you read
becomes oh yeah, read that, done that, tried that so you crave something new
and more challenging.
I've read most of the Homebrewing books i.e. TCJOHB, Homebrewers Companion,
New Brewing Lager Beer (defintely antipodean in style to Charlie's books),
Millers books, Classic Styles series etc. Then you think there's not much
more I can read, just apply it all to practice.
I think the problem with brewing books in general is that they're either
simplistic i.e. TCJOHB or Technical (Noonan) and there's no real happy
medium in between, has someone ever thought of bringing out a series of
books that graduate in stages i.e. Beginner, Intermediate, Semi-Advanced,
Advanced, Scientific, Downright Anal, Nervous Breakdown in those steps.
I just think that everybody out there is at a certain individual level,
Kit/Extract, those wanting to go to all-grain, people who like to build
scientific gadgets etc. etc. Homebrewing is at a stage in its evolution
where we need some sort of encylopedias on the craft, instructional video
series (surprised no one has done this), or something along those lines
don't you think?
But back to you Stephen, I brewed my first all-grain batch not knowing a
soul who Homebrewed (I wasn't in a club back then) and managed to go from A
to B and come out with a fairly palatble batch of English Bitter thanks to
TCJOHB!
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 14:54:07 EST
From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lychee Lambic
Honorable Confucious Graham Sanders say...
I'm sure there is a conpiracy going on out there. You lot just dont want me
to finish my brew room. I can understand that. When i perfect my Lychie
lambic, and longan Lambic, and flood the world with it, and send all other
beers into extinction, you lot will have nothing to do. Better to keep me
on this square box instead.
***********************************
Ha Meester Sanders...
When yooaa maki Lychee Lambic... I hava ancient Chinese wemedy for HSA in
your mash, meethink it come from Sensei Charlie P...
You taka yoo tablespoon ana yooo ada 1 heaped tablespoon of MSG... We call
dis not Burton Water Salts but Hong Kong Harbour Water Salts so effectively
you do not Burtonize you Water you Hong Kong Harbourize you water, nice
tastee like shit (definitely strain out solid bits).
Ahh yes meester Sanders youa no have hangover... you hava hypertension.
Vely Vely nicee wida Steak ana Blackbiin Sauceee!
Ahhsooo! Warren Hop Sing White!
Melbourne, Peking Australia
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:17:31 -0500
From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Whitelabs experience
Just thought I would share a nice experience with you all. One of the
members of my local HB club mentioned that when he would use a vial of the
Whitelabs pitchable yeasts, he would put some of his cooled wort in the now
empty vial and store it in the fridge. There is always some 'dregs'of yeast
left behind and he could then use this as a culture for another batch of
beer (with stepping up of course to get enough yeast volume).
I was making a steam beer with one of these vials and thought, what the
heck, let's see how this works. I let the vial sit out for a day and it was
at high krausen so I sealed it up tight and stuck it in the fridge. By the
time the beer came out of primary, I thought I no longer wanted to make
another batch of steam beer anytime soon, but I don't want to waste the
yeast....what is a brewer to do? I was planning on krausening the steam
beer with some pressure canned wort, in the typical homebrew fashion, then
it hit me! Innoculate the quart of wort with the left over yeast, let it get
to high krausen and do a genuine krausen of the batch of steam beer in the
secondary! (keg in this case)
there ya go, 2 ideas for the price of one.
Rich Sieben
Island Lake, IL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:24:52 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707@compuserve.com>
Subject: Mini Keg Relieph Bung
<Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:43:23 -0400
From: Bill.X.Wible@QuestDiagnostics.com
Subject: Those Mini-Kegs Again
There was something posted real recently about modifying the taps
or bungs on mini-kegs to allow pressure release so they don't deform.
I was searching through, but couldn't find it. Can anybody point me
to it? Much appreciated. I have a couple of these I want to try.>
You are thinking of "Phil's Relieph Bung" which is a conventional minikeg
bung modified with a crude but very effective pressure relief valve built
into the hard plastic center of the bung. Minikegs will bluge or "boink"
(technical term) at about 60psi. The relieph valve is designed to open at
about 30 psi and will vent until about 20 psi. They are not intended to
control carbonation levels, just protect the keg from over pressuring.
Check them out at our new E-tail site at listermann.com!
Dan Listermann dan@listermann.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 08:21:08 +0000
From: "A. J." <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: More Chloramine
Matt B had some comments on the oxidation of monochloramine by chlorine
as a means of getting it out of water. While we're probably beyond the
point of general interest here (i.e. we should probably go off line if
this discussion is to be continued) I'll respond to a couple of Matt's
points.
I doubt that the FCWA water contained organochlorine compounds. This is
a big enough plant that they watch TOC and THM like a hawk. They start
off with permanganate, floculate and finish with GAC filtration before
chlorine hits the water. Thus the water should be free of organics at
this point. The chlorine dose is a simple CT calculated dose. Ammonia is
applied as the water goes into the mains.
My sources list monochlormine as being of low volatility, dichloramine
as high and trichloramine as very high (though no vapor pressures were
given). My experiments, while not extensive, showed consumption of
chlorine followed by a decrease in net chlorine when hypochlorite was
added. Thus monochloramine is being converted to something which leaves
the water quicker than monochloramine does. This was the case with both
the county water and the home chloraminated water. The reduction in
chloramine half life in the home treated water was dramatic - to the
point where bleach addition could be a feasible chloramine mitigation
technique. With the FCWA water the chloramine half life dropped after
bleach addition to 105 hrs from 155 hrs which, while it does confirm the
theory, is not good enought to make this appear to be a feasible
approach for FCWA water.
It is recognized that low pH would probably make this approach work
better but lowering the pH would reqiure raising it again and that would
just add an additional layer of complexity to a method which is
doubtless too complex for the homebrewer already. I wanted to see if
this theoretically feasible approach was practical for homebrewers. I
don't think it is. If a chemical approach is desired it's much simpler
to throw in a Campden tablet or some ascorbic acid (another food grade
substance which may be found on the brewer's shelf) and get on with it.
Which reminds me again that someone asked about Brita pitchers as a
solution to the chloramine problem. Britas do contain GAC which is
effective at chloramine removal but the contact time must be extended.
Practically speaking this means that the water needs to be run through
the pitcher twice in many cases. The manufacturer claims (and we don't
doubt this) that the filter removes 92.5% of chlorine in the water. We
found that it only removes 84% of the chloramine.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 16:46:31 EDT
From: Thepfhb@aol.com
Subject: Jason's Minor Misquote
Dear HBD,
Alas I am the Phil who drank the starsan. As did Brian Rezak, and a third
person too. It was done at the Taste of the Great Lakes Conference in 97'.
The Starsan rep (who would now ironically be Brian himself) poured a dollop
of starsan in a Bass, a Guinness and a Frankenmuth Vienna. These were tasted
against identical pints of untainted beer. The results were conclusive. You
could not taste the starsan in any of the beers after it was disolved. This
took a little longer in the guinness, because it got caught up in that thick
creamy head. It did make the Vienna and Bass somewhat opaque, but you could
not taste it.
I was glad to finally meet Lynn O'conner at the AHA confrence this summer. If
you didn't make it there, too damn bad--We had a Hell-of-a-lot of fun!!! I
think Lynn should be able to post whatever she wants, I say we give her an
HBD immunity. She above any and all vendors (even Dan Listerman) has gone
over and beyond the normal grasp of providing knowledgable content to this
forum. For heavens sake people the woman flew all the way to the Czech
Republic to meet with maltsters and brewers and she can now provide us with
Budvar Malt and YEAST. Just look at the plethora of data she has shared on
this topic alone. Does she have a Financial intrest in this, yes, but she
shares her knowledge for free, and we get better products and services. Fair
trade IMHO. For all of you flame throwers--go jump in your pre-chillers! And
for all of you Dan Fans, If Dan wants to Fly to Midland, Mi (home of Dow
Corning) to investige non-floating plastic's I'll be glad to pick him up from
the airport! ;<)
Phil Wilcox
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 20:47:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: The matter of one Lynne O'Conner
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lawyer...
Folks, folks! Please! Let's not resort to extremes! Here's the pertinent
portion of the moderation policy regarding this:
3. Posting blatant commercials to the HBD is *strongly*
discouraged. While such messages will not be deleted if they
have *any* connection with beer and brewing, the HBD Steering
Committee will encourage the HBD readership not to patronize
businesses who clearly are abusing the HBD.
4. Brief product or sale announcements, comments about or reviews
of products or publications, and query responses that suggest
a particular product or merchant (e.g., "In response to XXX's
inquiry, my shop has a supply of corny kegs for $15 each")
are appropriate HBD messages and *are* encouraged.
In my opinion, Lynne has been leaning on #4. In any case, the Janitors
WILL NOT take any exclusionary actions, so please preserve the Digest
bandwidth and refrain from suggesting such. Same for Dan, Jack (who's been
MIGHTY sparse lately!) and anyone else. If you have a problem with their
activities on the Digest, then might I quote another passage from the
general policy:
If a contributor does not adhere to this guideline, I suggest that
he be deluged with *private* flames. We, the janitors, will not
bar anyone from receiving or posting to the digest, except those
that are obvious spam, chain letters, blatantly non-beer related
or duplicate (identically) posts.
(This one was written in my capacity as Janitor, for those who may be
wondering...)
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 22:46:58 -0500
From: "Kevin Jones" <mrkjones@mindspring.com>
Subject: Star San and cold weather lagering
Jeff Calton asks....
Given that my water supply comes from an underground well, I've felt the
need to
try out the various "no rinse" sanitizers on the market. Upon trying out
Star-San however, I was dismayed at all the foaming encountered. Sanitizing
a
carboy left the container nearly completely full of foam. Am I to assume
that
this foam is harmless to yeast, people, or the taste of beer?
Secondly, my lagering fridge sits on a back patio. With the coming winter,
I
need to explore ways of keeping the inside from dipping below freezing
temperatures. One solution would be to install a low watt incandescent
light
bulb to provide a source of internal heat. However, the fridge often
contains
beer in glass carboys, and I worry about the potential detriment of exposing
the
beer to a continuous light source. How have others dealt with this issue?
Jeff,
Dont sweat the foam, it wont hurt a thing. I have accidentally added large
amount of star san sanatizer to my beer (2.5 to 3.0 pH), no you cant ask how
I managed that mistake. As I was told when I first used star san "it foams
like crazy, but wont hurt your beer. Trust me!" The salesman was right.
I have a dedicated frig for fermentation in the garage. It gets too cold in
the winter so I added a small heater....the kind with a fan for putting
under a desk. It has a 'fan only' setting and three heat settings. The fan
alone adds a little heat and usually does the trick. For really cold I go
to low heat and then my Johnson temp controler runs the compressor. They
work against each other to hold the temp just perfect, although a little
hard on the electric bill. As an added advantage, I now run a fan in all
my refrigerated fermentors which keeps the temp them same from top to
bottom, ie no cold zones and when changing temp up or down the carboy
changes temp much faster. Great for brewing in the south, if the chiller
wont get the temp down to were I want it, I just put the carboy on the frig
with the fan and drop them temp, then pitch my yeast.
Drink better beer!
Kevin Jones
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 22:12:27 -0700
From: "Fred Waltman" <fwaltman@mediaone.net>
Subject: Alt Grain Bills/Oat Beers
On the subject of Alt grain bills, the folks at zum Uerige in
Duesseldorf are very forthcoming with their recipe. I don't
have my notes handy, but it was mostly Durst Pilsner malt
(up around 90%), about 2% black malt and the rest dark crystal.
I was kind of blown away myself, expecting lots of Munich malt.
The grain bill for the Sticke bier is identical -- they just
sparge less and so get a more concentrated wort (and do some
dry hopping). The also ferment at around 70 deg F for about
3 days and then cold condition for a couple of weeks. In keeping
with the recent HSA thread, they cool the wort by dribbling it
down the outside of a maze of copper pipes with cold water in them.
The beer drops about 8 feet, and the open the window behind it to
aerate it. When asked if they were worried about HSA, the brewer
said it helped improve the color. Of course, 95% of their beer
is drunk within a month of brewing.
While I on my favorite subject, the pitch their yeast by literally
shoveling the foam off of one batch into the adjacent fermenter.
They repitch for 2-1/2 to 3 years before starting with a fresh
culture. (I have some pictures at www.StickeWarriors.com/gallery99.asp
Jack S. ask about oat beers:
Many years ago a made an "Oatmeal Pilsner." It was basically a
pre-Pro lager except I replaced the 40% of flaked corn with
flaked oats. I did a cereal mash (even though the oats were
pre-gelatinized) and I think that helped -- I had no problems
in the sparge or the ferment -- except that in the primary I
had huge amounts of break -- it looked like I had a brain floating
around in the carboy. The beer ended up fine, but not all that
different than my other pre-Pro's.
Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply (Los Angeles area)
(I was once at (0,0,0) rennerian but I have no idea where I am now)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 22:16:56 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp@amat.com
Subject: re: HBD Illustrated?
>Curious to see what the rest of you think of this and wonder of we'll
>start to see graphics creep into the stodgy old text only HBD. If
>interest is stimulated I suppose we ought to ask the janitors to
>recommend one of the multiple options as the standard for the digest.
I for on find this interesting. I have a bunch of photos that I have
scanned (or taken with my digital camera). It's difficult to share
them. I don't know what site would be the best to use for this
but it's certainly food for thought.
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Homebrewery
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:25:12 +1000
From: "Mark Ellis" <mark@glacierdesign.net>
Subject: herbs in beer
Greetings All,
Just curios if any of you have used herbs in your
beers, particularly the mint family. I am seeking
guidance before I attempt some hideous experiment that
gets poured down the sink. Thanks for your help.
Regards
Mark E. in Oz
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:25:18 +1100
From: Steve Lacey <stevel@sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject:
I don't normally get involved in this "I said, he said, you said, she said"
crap, but I would just like to correct Jim Adwell after his little diatribe
in today's (#3422 digest). Specifically, he has a shot at Jack Schmidling
for disposing of the false bottom dead space momily when in fact, according
to Jim, the thread was really about manifolds. I would simply say, read your
HBDs more carefully, Jim. There actually was a brief fingernail biting
thread about dead space below false bottoms and I don't think John P. was
involved in it. I couldn't be bothered to look up the specific issue, but it
was there just recently and it was that which Jack was talking about. Jim,
if you want to take pot shots at people, just check your facts because
otherwise valuable band width gets taken up my inane answers like mine.
Enough already. I've got to get back to working out how to catch giant
gropers without the right bait. I mean, even my beer doesn't have a proper
head!
Steve Lacey
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:38:45 +1100
From: Steve Lacey <stevel@sf.nsw.gov.au>
Subject: Mashed potato in mash
Maybe this is in the archives, but I thought I'd ask anyway. I've read a lot
about corn, rice and pumpkin as adjuncts, but never ordinary potato. Yet
somewhere in the dark recesses of my memory I thought that I had once heard
that this was the adjunct of choice for some commercial breweries. Am I
hallucinating? Has anyone had experience mashing the humble spud (and I
don't mean with butter and milk served with steak and kidney pie)?
Steve Lacey
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:24:16 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd@q-net.net.au>
Subject: mesuring SG
in
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:25:08 -0700
From: Mea & Marvin <mcmc@loop.com>
Subject: Two Hydrometers
Marvin wonders if he is ever going to want to use his 2 hydrometers.
I can only say most likely you will want one and wen you brake that you will
want the other. hopfuly you will do beater than me and not need a 4th.
I measure only the mass, volume, temperature and specific gravity of various
things.
You want to know the SG of your wart and beer so you can work out if your
mash was efficient and if your fermentation is complete.
Once you know how your system works it is really only needed to check for
mistakes such as an over hot mash making for a low starting gravity or a
unnoticed cold snap stoping your yeast to soon.
it takes 5 minutes and could save you a case of bottle bombs. I know of no
other step that is easier and offers such tangible payofs.
that said do what works for you
Edward
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:31:41 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer@cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Charlie P,fwh
G,day all
I must be the only bastard thats never read any of his books. Hearing all
this godly talk has me running arround hands in the air yelling "I've seen
the light".
Then the devil pokes his nose in and says "are no, Charlie P is only a false
God, dont go there."
You are all heathens. On your knees now brothers and sisters. Its Saint
Arnold who is your true saviour. (you too Charlie - I can sense you out
there)
Now it is truely written
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 10:54:56 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: FW & MASH hopping
I also have tasted a Helles made by Steve Alexander that used all the
(low-alpha noble) hops as FWH. Too much hop flavor for style, but an
interesting experiment. I think this would be interesting to try with a
pils.
________________
Have to agree with Jeff on this one. We up here have just finished a
intense experimentation with FWH in a multitude of combinations and
strengths. In particular we found (and confirmed with ESB Sydney) that
high Alphas hops are tottally undesirable. They give a robustness, and
harseness to the flavour that you dont get any other way. Its really quite
noticeable and explains an earlier post where i asked that very question.
I did a vienna with high alpha Hallataeu from NZ totally as FWH, (no
bittering hop). Like Jeff said, tottally inappropriate to style but its an
interesting experiment never the less. Worth doing once my friends, just to
see what we mean.
What I have been able to get from my experiments, other people arround this
land and OS (thats overseas heathens) is
1. use bittering hops as you would always use.
2. the 10 minute flavour addition is only to be FWH
3. Even cut it back by 10 to 20 %, the flavour can be that intense.
4. Use hops of very low aa. It was suggested 2 and below by some, but
consenses puts it 5 and below.
Shout
Graham
and this comment
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:23:30 -0500
From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham@antennaproducts.com>
Subject: HSA and Hops
Graham, ah too haf allus jest dumped mah spent grains
an' hops in th' yard. Th' past few years ah have been warshin' th' hops
down wif water when ah clean up. Ah heard somewhar it might be bad fo'
houn'dogs. Befo'e then ah nevah had a houn'dog git sick o' die fum eatin'
them. Maby its on account o' ah have Blue an' Red Heelers which haf
Aestralian blood in them. Dawgone it might be thet city houn'dogs ain't
tough inough t'eat them.
Ah will hafta try th' asprin an' milk on th' Feral an' Pole' Cats ah have.
_____________
Good to see you have those tough Aussie dogs. Smart animals, now if the
master can spell and get to their level (shit I can talk with my unique
moral upstanding yeast i now seem to own) . But yeh, us country lads could
teach those city slickers a thing or two. The asprin and milk will work and
is quite effective. Told its not the nicest death, but neither is rat
poison, or fly spray come to think of it. By the way , hows the still and
moonshine working out (all us country boys have one).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 08:47:49 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: anti-oxidants and rusty parts
Jim Adwell mentions, >>Mr. Beer-Drinking Guy's frame is rusty, too, and
frankly he's pretty tired of it. Maybe if we coated our respective frames
with
cinnamom/coriander/cardamom ...? Try it, Nathaniel, and report the results
to Mr. Beer-Drinking Guy for inclusion in a future issue.<<
Not my whole frame has rusted yet, just one particular area. So I gave
the
blend a try, equal parts of each applied with a warm compress. WOW! what
a difference! Now I can once again 'curry' the favors of SWMBO.
Under the influence of Aussie humour,
N.P.L.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 16:25:36 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski@iname.com>
Subject: HSA and "C" spices
Jim Adwell <jimala@apical.com> said:
>Spencer, all ya gotta do is add large amounts of *all* of the 'C' spices,
>including Vitamin 'C', in your mash and all the oxygen will instantly be
>sucked up and destroyed in the vicinity of your mash tun ( be sure to wear
>your scuba gear while brewing) as soon as the mash temp hits 177.359
>degrees F. I know this because it was in a brewing book I found in a
>supermarket in Perth while shopping for Vegemite. And throw in some
>aspirin and milk for luck, too. Hey, it couldn't hurt, right?
Well, how about another "C" substance? Carbon Monoxide. That should suck
up a lot of O2 and help carbonate at the same time.
Er,,, should I patent this idea?
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:20:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:electric stove, new gas burner
I wrote last week about my lame "new" (to me)
electric stove. Thanks to Donald D. Lake, Roy
Strohl, Dave Hinrichs, and Ken Miller, for
helpful advice.
My brewpot is a large cheap enameled canner with
a non-flat bottom. My stove likes flat heavy
gauge pots, apparently, and will having nothing
to do with my brewpot.
First I tried stuffing a flat lump of aluminum
foil under my brewpot to help in heat conduction.
This did not help. In fact it made matters
worse. Since I mentioned I'd try it, I thought
I'd mention how bad it worked.
So I bought a 170000 BTU gas turkey fryer system
at Lowe's yesterday. I have yet to heat it up,
but....
1. How do you keep the bugs out of the pot, like
hornets, etc.
2. How do you chill the wort, garden hose?
3. What exactly does 170000 BTU refer to?
I guess the bug factor bothers me. I brew at
night, and the deck is swarming at night.
Anyway, thanks, and I can't wait to fire this
thing up.
Matt Comstock in Cincinnati
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:27:55 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: HSA and boiling and transfer technique
Brewsters:
HSA is an abbreviation for a meaningless name, but I will use it since we
sort of know what it means.
I think there are perhaps two beer faults associated with exposing
wort/beer to air. The confusion and perhaps the source of disagreeement on
HSA ( yes there is, no there ain't) is because of this, as they are
distinctily different tastes. In my opinion, exposing hot wort to lots of
air (HSA) may not lead to the papery/cardboard taste of old beer exposed to
oxygen sometime after fermentation.
Boiling <wort> in a kettle fully open to the air gives a browning (
oxidative browning?) and results in a sherry like flavor in the beer. This
may be the "extract tang" once associated with early beer making. This is
due to the oxidation of the wort ( possibly the phenolics - like tannin and
such) at the surface during the boil and hot transfer through the air in
whihc the wort gets intimately mixed with the air.
This is not the same IMHO as the papery/cardboard taste I encounter in
<beers> which have been exposed to oxygen during kegging and bottling. The
former "sherry" taste is with the beer from the beginning and does not
require a few weeks to make itself known. In my experience many homebrewed
beers I taste from other brewers suffer from this defect of a
sherry/oxidation taste. Brewers often fail to recognize it as a defect as
it has always been a part of "their" beer flavor. It is a shame as it can
be easily fixed. If this "sherrry" beer is carefully bottled oxygen free it
may not pick up the "old" flavors. This is the source of disagreement I
believe.
To add to the confusion, if you boil a long time and concentrate your wort
you will get higher boiling temperatures and higher sugar and protein
concentrations which encourage the Maillard reaction so the worts get
maltier and darker in color as these maillard products decompose to
caramels. This will happen with the lid off or partially on, except with
the lid on it will take longer to boil it down with the same size kettle
and heat input. With the lid off likely the boil will be less vigorous and
the hop extraction less, in addition to the "sherry" oxidation defect.
Boiling technique really counts as an important variable in beer making.
So I recommend boiling (AFTER the first boilup) with the lid partially (
~5/6 covered) on to get a jet of steam to keep the surface oxygen-free in
all cases. If you want to get the malty effects of a concentrated wort or
do a barleywine, use several kettles all partially covered to get more
surface area and more heat per unit volume and a faster boil off. It is
still importantr to boil for a an hour to one and a half hours to get good
hop extraction efficiency. Never pour your hot wort through the air to
remove the hops in a sieve or whatever.
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 15:48:50 -0400
From: Richard_R_Gontarek@sbphrd.com
Subject: Homegrown hops
Hi All,
A friend of mine has some hop vines (Cascade) planted in is backyard,
and a few weeks back he invited me over to harvest them. I took a ton
home and dried themout on the floor of my garage for a couple of days.
They were dried and papery,and the stems were brittle, so I am reasonably
sure that I dried them out enough. I stored them in ziploc bags in my
refrigerator.
I want to brew with them, but obviously since I don't know the % alpha
acid, I thought I'd use them for late kettle additions (mostly aroma). But now
when I open the bags, the hops have a vegetable-like aroma, definitely not the
sharp hop aroma I get when I sniff a fresh pack of hop plugs. Is this normal?
When I rub the cones between my fingers to release some of the resin, I
definitely
smell that, but the leaves seem tohave a very, well, leafy odor to them. Because
I have never used homegrown hops before, I'm not sure if this odor is something
to be expected. And I'd hate to trash an all-grain brew that I spent my precious
time
brewing.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster
The Major Groove Picobrewery
Trappe, PA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:54:56 -0500
From: rlabor@lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: HBD Illustrated?
> From: "A. J." <ajdel@mindspring.com>
>
> >as it starts with http and ends with .jpg and then put the URL in his
> >HBD post. For example, if we were talking about alcohol determination
> >we might point out that a pycometer is a relatively inexpensive tool for
>
> >Clicking on these URL's will bring the image down into your browser/mail
> >program
>
> This is a good idea, and probably about time to implement in some way
> soon. I do believe the digest likes to be self-contained, and some
> problems will occur because the URL's cannot be guaranteed to exist
> externally. This is the real problem which must be overcome somehow.
> Maybe the janitors could provide some URL for the specific purpose of
> depositing HBD graphics. Hey, Pat.... in your spare time how'd ya like to
> monitor graphics and filter them?
>
> Ron La Borde
>
> Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor@lsuhsc.edu
> http://hbd.org/rlaborde
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:05:43 -0400
From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso@coastalnet.com>
Subject: RE: Krauzening vs. new yeast charge
Last year sometime I searched the archives looking for info on Krausening,
mainly because I was having problems with over carbonating my beer and I
thought this might help me get some control. The technique was of interest
to me. I then went and attempted to bottle carbonate my homebrew via
Krausening. Now, my process may have been a little different than others.
I withheld the appropriate volume of fresh wort, dependent on the gravity,
from my primary fermenter PRIOR to addition of the yeast and stored it in my
refrigerator. When I was ready to bottle I siphoned the beer from the
secondary into my bottling carboy that contained my unfermented wort. I
allowed the mixed solution to stand for 3 hours then I bottled. This worked
great. My over carbonating problem went away, no problems with cidery
taste, and I feel a much better tasting beer. I just wanted to throw in my
$.02.
Frank Russo
Havelock, NC
ATF HomeBrew Club of NewBern, NC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:07:23 -0500
From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman"@uhc.com>
Subject: Starter woes
Hi - I have been having a problem getting my starters to start lately. While two
of the problem starters have been with the smaller Wyeast smack packs that were
a couple of months old, my latest problem has been with a very fresh Wyeast
150ml tube of 1272 (American II). For this one I created 3 liters of 1.045 wort
with dry malt extract and carbon-filtered hard water (I boiled the wort for 20
minutes), aerated it with pure O2 through a carbonation stone once cooled to 75
degrees F, and pitched the tube that was also at 75 degrees F. The Wyeast tube
was refrigerated up to the time that I was preparing the starter. I would have
expected it to take off like a rocket, but it fermented slowly for a few days
and then stopped. I shook it often throughout that time, but while it released a
lot of CO2 it never really got going. I have a fair amount of yeast sediment on
the bottom of my starter, but the gravity is still at 1.028. I was going to brew
up a 10 gallon batch this weekend, but I am very concerned about my yeast not
being up to the task. Any ideas or past experiences with this? Will my beer be
ruined before I even brew it?
thanks in advance for any help -
Dan in Minnetonka
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 00:04:07 +0200
From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof@netbeer.co.at>
Subject: Re: Spent grains bread
Hi all,
Back in HBD#3418 Bob Mori asked for a recipe for spent grain bread. Here's
one that I posted in HBD#2725 (May 98). We still make it that way and are
very happy with it. Last year we had some discussion in the German HB-
Forum on why it may be beneficial to use the spent grains after drying.
Well, it definitely adds some flavors! Consider there is everything you
need to get some caramelization and browning reactions in the spent
grains: residual sugars and amino acids / proteins.
...oh, I'm sorry! The queue is soo long and I dare to post somthing a
second time that's not even really brewing related!
...But see ...it all originated from AYING, home of some favorite lager-
yeast!
CHEERS&
sehr zum Wohle!
Hubert, brewing 100km east of Aying
~~~~~
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:15 +0100
From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof@netbeer.co.at>
Subject: Trebernbrot / Treberweizen
Hello all,
I've two hints for usage of spent grains:
TREBERNBROT
(bread with spent grains):
In 1996 we visited the beer garden of Brewery Aying - a rather small
brewery but IMHO one of the best ones in Bavaria ...if not Germany!
It's located on the countryside near Munich.
Needless to say - food and beer were delicious, but the "Trebernbrot"
attracted all the rest of our attention! The Austrian ;-) chef even
gave us a loaf of the bread for free but he made a big secret about the
composition.
Luckily the waitress was more communicative and told us, that it would
be very essential to dry the spent grains prior to doughing in ...and I
think that's not only because of inhibiting spoiling of the wet grains
during storage.
Since then we baked "some batches" of Trebernbrot at home with big
success. On brewday we dry some of the spent grains @160C on a baking
sheet (shallow layer, only max.1/2" thick). Then we pack it into
portions of 250 grams each (batch size) and store them in the freezer.
Helen's Trebernbrot recipe:
200-250g dried Trebern (spent grains)
250g per kg of flour is the highest level that has proven to give good
bread.
300g rye flour
700g wheat flour
30g dry extract of sour dough
20g dry baker's yeast
tsp honey
tsp salt
Season according to your palate with crushed coriander, aniseed,
caraway and fennel.
Mash in ...er, dough in with approx. 850 mL water and let rest
overnight. Wake up early and bake your "Trebernbrot".
~~~~~
- --
"Bier brauen nach eigenem Geschmack"
Infos unter:
http://www.netbeer.co.at
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:34:26 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay@ottawa.com>
Subject: looking for good set of tastebuds in Ottawa
Folks,
This Saturday Sept 9 I will be running a tasting of 8 different
brands of Koelsch that I brought back with me from Cologne.
I am seeking good tastebuds to take part.
If you can come on the 9th, and are capable of tasting a
beer then describing it for someone who hasn't tasted it,
please Email me ASAP. Looking for 1, possibly 2 more
people who can write something like this :
"delicate malt nose which comes only
every 2nd or 3rd waft, with hints of fruit as well.
starts a bit sweet, which carries over into the middle,
where a hoppy dryness starts to come in and
nip at the back of your tongue. Notes of pear,
some apple." That sort of thing, you get the picture.
Don't have to be a beer judge, just have to be able
to convince me that you can do the above.
cheers,
-Alan
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3423, 09/06/00
*************************************
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