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HOMEBREW Digest #3419
HOMEBREW Digest #3419 Sat 02 September 2000
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Another Stupid Homebrewer Trick ("Jeffry D Luck")
Dead Space Momily ("Jack Schmidling")
idophor in a corny (Clark)
Charlie, etc. ("John Herman")
FW & MASH hopping (Randy Ricchi)
Re:Charlie!!! Charlie!!! (markh)
Just Some Things. (AZ4RAYS)
"Fearless Brewing: The Beer Maker's Bible" by Brian Kunath ("Matt and/or Hazel Tolley")
hops and dogs (Edward Doernberg)
Book Review (Des Egan)
malt mils (Edward Doernberg)
head found in fish,Sterile Water Yeast Storage ("Graham Sanders")
rain water (Edward Doernberg)
using rain water (Mike Foster)
fridge fan (fridgeguy)
Traveling Damage (Bob Hall)
HSA, are we there yet? ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
re: hot side/ cold side and other oxidations (Lou.Heavner)
Re: Hops & Dogs (Some Guy)
unmalted barley (perry.johnson-green)
Really Big Brain (TM). O'Connor's (Dave Burley)
Choosing clubs carefully ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
Inverted carboy systems ("Javier Blanco")
HSA and Hops (Jim Bermingham)
Re: Notes from Charlie P. (Spencer W Thomas)
Charlie & Advertising ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
Charlie, Phil and Lynne ("Gordon Strong")
Mash-in and Club Management ("Rick Theiner ")
Re: Using rain water (Project One)
Yeast Ranching ("Richardson, Martin")
Ahhh, there's the (HSA) rub.../ Chilly Yeast (mohrstrom)
High Morality Rates in yeast ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 29 Aug 2000 15:27:00 -0700
From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck@aexp.com>
Subject: Another Stupid Homebrewer Trick
These homebrewer war stories remind me of a conversation I had
with a 'fellow brewer'. He was consistently surprised how well-rounded
my beers were, where his were harsh and bitter. He asked me my
process and I went through the whole shpeel with him nodding his head
in the 'me too' fashion. (We both bottle rather than keg.)
Then I got to the 'set it asside for 3 weeks, then enjoy' part, and he says,
"3 Weeks!?! I usually crack mine after a few days. I've never even
had a bottle last longer than 3 weeks!"
*?!?*
Despite my recommendations, he seemed determined to crawl back
into the Homebrewers are Drunks camp. (Sorry, Pat, there are a few.)
Jeff Luck
Salt Lake City, UT USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:24:54 -0500
From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf@mc.net>
Subject: Dead Space Momily
All the concen for the lost wort under a false bottom may be a great sales
pitch for an EASYMASHER but in reality, there should be nothing in that
dead space worth worrying about.
The wort under the false bottom has the same gravity as the wort above it
and when sparging is complete, it is, for all practical purposes, water.
You lose nothing but an extra gallon of sparge water.
js
ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm
Home Page: Beer, Cheese, Astronomy, Videos http://user.mc.net/arf
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:36:55 -0400
From: Clark <clark@capital.net>
Subject: idophor in a corny
Hi list,
I have finally purchased my kegging setup. I got a used corny, a dual
gauge regulator, 5 lb CO2 bottle (filled), replacement "O" rings and all
necessary hoses fittings and attachments for $165. I may have been able to
do better on the price, but I had the cash and away I go. I also had an
additional keg received as a gift from my kids at Christmas.
I rinsed this already clean keg with water and then filled it with an
idophor solution for about a half hour. I then pumped this solution into
my first keg and sealed it. My sons rootbeer now fills the first keg, so
it looks like this will be the designated soda keg.
My question is how long can I leave the idophor solution in my designated
beer keg? Will there be any deterioration of the stainless with prolonged
contact? Is there another recommendation for a sanitizer to use in the kegs?
That's it. Should be an easy one for some of you. Thanks for the help.
Dave Clark
Eagle Bridge, New York
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:26:22 -0400
From: "John Herman" <johnvic@earthlink.net>
Subject: Charlie, etc.
I agree with so many points here. Papazian got me started and I'm glad for
that! I also followed a piece his advice. Buy lots of books, read through
them, and use what works for you.
Just my opinion.
John Herman
johnvic@earthlink.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:44:00 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi@ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: FW & MASH hopping
There has been much talk lately of first wort and mash hopping. I have
FWH'd for sometime now, and in spite of my earlier skepticism, am now quite
a believer in the technique.
I remember reading that FWH was not always a good idea with higher alpha
hops. I'm wondering how true that is, and does it also apply to mash hopping?
Specifically, I'm interested in trying an APA, mash hopping with Chinook,
and FWH with Chinook also. Has anyone tried this? Do Chinook hops lend
themselves well to these techniques? TIA.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:14:52 -0500
From: markh@netdot.com
Subject: Re:Charlie!!! Charlie!!!
And let us all say, "relax, don't worry, have a homebrew"... I'm with
'ya Dave, and when the "artbrew" arrives in Texas, I'm gonna go
walkabout to the Burradoo Hilton. The man was at the right place at the
right time, had the right charisma, and got a lot of people interested
in ho, er,craftbrewing, which is why we in the U.S. have such a damn
fine selection of products to choose from for our hobby.Yeah, Noonan and
the rest are good also, but let us not forget the "guru" who led us out
of the wilderness of megaswill.
Mark
Futilely attempting a lager where it's been 103F for the last 60 effing
days...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:23:28 EDT
From: AZ4RAYS@aol.com
Subject: Just Some Things.
Just had to jump in here and give my two cents worth.
Living in the desert of Yuma Arizona, there is currently no Homebrew supplier
for me to support. A three hour drive to San Diego, Phoenix, or Tucson is as
good as it gets. I have been ordering from the internet almost since I
started Brewing. I have had in that two year period many excellent
experiences with St. Pats in Texas, and Lynne O'Connor in particular. I have
always received what I ordered in mint condition and at a price low enough to
make up for the shipping. Obviously I can't afford to order sacks of grain at
nearly $20.00 shipping apiece, so I have to pick them up on trips out of
town. Lynne has always had a phone message on my machine whenever there was
any question or problem with my order. She has always responded to E-mail
requests from me in a prompt and courteous manner. Lynne has offered advice
and hints to me in my beermaking and helped me get interested and started in
winemaking. I am convinced she is a homebrewer at heart and in practice, and
does all in her power to build our craft. I salute you Lynne, and Thank You
for your presence on HBD and AHA. The rest of you can take a giant leap!!!
Charlie is a Hero to the homebrewing world! His book is kind of old and not
necessarily up to the latest technology, but some of you Bowtie Boookworms
need to forget some of your technology and get a life! Jesus, have a homebrew
and relax, see Charlie's book as what it is, a timeless classic which has
brought many of us into this wort. (pun intended) BTW, I think Charlie
deserves whatever salary he can get! Besides, I used to wear some of those
outfits worn in those pictures, grant you it was a loonnnnng time ago.
Marc Sedam is a brewing GENIUS. I have picked up a ton of brewing skill from
him, foremost being the concept of MASH HOPPING. If you want to find the
fresh hop flavor and aroma potential of a beer or a particular hop variety,
TRY IT! If you haven't tried mash hopping, shut up or put some in your next
batch. The theory is crap. The practice is heavenly, it helps the mash
efficiency, it helps clear runoffs and cut down on stuck mashes, it makes a
better beer! I can't explain, theorise, or equate it. All I can do is tell
you I tried it and it works.
One last note to my brewing buddies, most of you read this rag daily, I love
you guys! And some of you girls. Rob, Marc, George, Chad, Kevin, Janis, All
you Daves, Mark, Angie, Terry, Gary, Russ, Joe, Doug, Kristen & Tim, etc. etc
Yeah especially you, Tony! You guys Rock the pants off this bunch of First
Wort Hoppers!!! BORING, gag.
Friends don't let Friends drink Bud!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:31:00 +0100
From: "Matt and/or Hazel Tolley" <tolmh@tpg.com.au>
Subject: "Fearless Brewing: The Beer Maker's Bible" by Brian Kunath
> From: kiewel@mail.chem.tamu.edu (Kurt Kiewel)
> I would like to recommend a different book for the
> new brewer:
>
> "Fearless Brewing: The Beer Maker's Bible" by Brian Kunath.
This was the second book I bought, although my Australian-bought copy
(published by New Burlington in London) is labelled 'Mastering Homebrew: The
Beer Maker's Bible'. I'll be the first to admit that I bought it for the
pictures, and I heartily recommend it to newbies for that very reason - it
was great to see big colour closeups of the stuff I'd been reading about
while lurking on HBD. If only they had this in Aussie K-Marts instead of
Sampson's 'Understanding Beermaking' :). This book really cleared up some
of the mysteries of all-grain brewing for me - poorly worded instructions in
another publication had led me to believe that you lautered, then sparged,
and if it looked cloudy, you tipped the whole lot back into your sparging
bucket and started again til it ran clear :).
Cheers!
...Matt...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:47:32 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd@q-net.net.au>
Subject: hops and dogs
I just spoke to my vet. she had actually herd of this before but didn't no
any details of treatment. she said it was likely not related to breed but
the bogs size age and liver condition and the amount of hops consumed.
just one more angle but it still comes down to don't let the dog eat the hops.
Edward
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:53:17 +1000
From: Des Egan <degan@Bendigo.vic.gov.au>
Subject: Book Review
As a newbie to home brewing and lurker on this list I would support Kurt
Kiewel's comments about the brewing book "Fearless Brewing: The Beer Makers
Bible" by Brian Kunath ( Kun'oth? - he would have had a miserable childhood
in Oz with a surname like that!)
I also found it on a remainder table last week (published 1998) and I have
found the explanations easy to follow and the colour pictures to be
excellent quality. It would provide newcomers with an excellent
appreciation of the art of brewing from extract through to all-grain (no
affiliation etc).
It may or not be indicative that the only other brewing book I own is
Charlie Pap's TNCJoH.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:15:57 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd@q-net.net.au>
Subject: malt mils
I am considering buying a malt mill. The only place in peth that has them in
stock only has the ones that look like a spinning disk
on the end of a meat mincer. Shipping would kill me on any other type. There
is one other place that will get one in but it's the
same type.
Should I by this one which isn't ideal or try to build one. If I do nothing
then I am just using the cheap kind at the store instead
of at home.
Are there any sits with instructions on how to build a malt mill.
I have access to wood working tools but only limited metal working (like a
drill and a saw only).
Edward
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:52:39 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer@cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: head found in fish,Sterile Water Yeast Storage
G'day All
So hows the brain box handling all this high tech stuff. Its not really
that bad. Before I get into that I have to tell.
Now anyone who knows people from the north of this land, we often will have
a go at you all (in good fun). While every-thing is bigger, baddr, deadlier
up here, most know when i am having a lend of you. But every now and then
the North throws up a surprise. This is hot off the press (length of cue
depending) but is true blue, ridgy-didge, fair dinkum.
Headline on the news "Mans head found in Fish". Now yes hard to believe
(fish you lot would keep we would use as bait), but at the local fish
processing plant, a guy gutted a large cod and out flopped a human head.
Still had skin, hair, facial features etc - quite recognizable. But it was
only the head nothing else was found. The mystery is the fish was caught
many miles from the shore. Funny thing, when the manager was asked, "was
the guy who found it upset" he said "Na! they quite robost fellas up here,
he just pushed it aside, kept working and called me over." That the true Nth
QLD spirit.
So besides loosing American tourists at sea, the odd one eaten by a saltie,
and gential grabing frogs, we have Now Head Hunting Cod. - Survivors watch
out!
Now I have covered the principle and how to do it (yes back to yeast), now
its time to cover how
to prepare the plates and test tubes -vials.
Now we first have to prepare some agar plates into petre-dishes. This is
dead easy. You first need to go and get some agar. A chinese supermarket
is ideal. I didn't have one in the deep north of Aus, so I got the famous
brewer in Sydney (the big smoke), Steve Lacey - creator of the brand new
style of beer called a German Pale Ale to get me some. Beg borrow steal,
but get some agar, its cheep as chips. You also need some dried malt
extract (DME).
Now i have an Autoclav, set to a working pressure of 15 lbs. It will build
up on the guage to about 250 kPa and a temp of about 135c. That works fine.
Oh I hear, my pressure cooker doesn't have all that fancy dials. Dont
worry, just put water in the bottom and check the instruction to get roughly
the right weight. Two key points, you need it to run for about half an hour
at that hissing stage to steralise your stuff (oh by the way, if someone
who actually has one can give the right parameter by all means chime in, I
only use an autoclav, but I know for a craftbrewer a pressure cooker will
work)
Now I have found it a real pain messuring mixing and pouring agar soloution
into petre dishes. There is a far easier way. But first what sort of water
to use. Ordinary tap water. If its drinkable use it. For sterile water
storage, distilled water is a big no-no. You need some of the disolved salts
in the water to maintain equilibrium with the yeast. All I do is let it
stand then boil it twice in a kettle.
Now put a level teaspoon of DME in each dish. Get a tiny winy teaspoon and
put in the dried agar (its actually 0.5 gram) that about the amount the size
of a small to medium pea (thats pea and not pee). Pour in hot water just to
cover the bottom of the plate and give a gentle stir. Dont worry if it
doesn't mix properly, it does so in the pressure cooker. Place carefully in
the cooker. Position lids so they are 3/4 on, so they can be easy pushed
over the dish later. Thats it, blast away.
Let it go for about a half and hour, then let it sit for another half and
hour. Open lid carefully while still hot (do I have to mention the bleeden
obvious about safety), and with the lid slightly ajar, push the lids on the
dishes with a clean thing-a- mah-bob, put the lid back on and let it cool.
When its cool, you'll have nice sterile agar plates. Into the fridge to use
whenever. If you are reculturing 'mother cultures, I add a little bit of an
antibiotic tablet as well.
And the cost per plate to make. I work it out to be 2 cents a plates. Just
affordable. (Now whats the cost of a culture again).
The test tubes/vials are similar. Put about an inch of boiled tap water in
the bottom, lid on top ready to seal, and again let her rip.. Seal test
tubes/vial as hot as you can bear to touch the thing. I actually use these
neat rubber stoppers for test tubes. They allow the pressure to escape,
(without blowing off), but as it cooles the stoppers are "sucked in" (not
correct term to those who have studied physics but I'm writing to the
masses). Thus my test tubes seal themselves. They are ready to use. Put
allumnium foil over the top of each and store.
Next, some of the easy techniques you should master to stop, (minumise)
infection.
Shout
Graham Sanders
oh
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:07:38 -0500
From: "T & S Klepfer" <lee-thomas@indian-creek.net>
Long time lurker, first time poster.
On another topic, personally I enjoy the often off-topic banter from you
guys Down Under, even if I don't always understand the lingo. Much more
enjoyable than some of the long-winded technical discourse and debate from
dueling "experts". As the saying goes - to get 10 experts to agree you
have to shoot 9.
Nice one Lee, and well put.
Now sucking up to the likes of me is well and good. You can even bend my
ear on occasion. I'll even give you the slugs if you like. But you still
have to supply me with the carton if you want come over here.
On the other hand, nothing like a first timer dropping himself right in it.
Knock one back for me.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:59:25 +0800
From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd@q-net.net.au>
Subject: rain water
I wouldn't use rain water where i live the air is to polluted. if you live
in a city then I wouldn't, if you live in a reasonably pollution free aria
such as a small town or in the country then yes. Just know that it has no
more minerals than distilled water.
Edward
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:44:41 -0400
From: Mike Foster <mike@asyoulikeit.org>
Subject: using rain water
Makes me shudder to hear somebody say rainwater is "clean". Chlorine-free,
I'll believe. Clean? No. Rainwater will be full of airborn pollutants. This
will, of course, vary from location to location. Rainwater in the middle
of Montana I might use. Rainwater in L.A., New York City, or Detroit, I
probably would not trust.
- --
Wolfger
http://www.asyoulikeit.org/wolfger
We must overcome the notion that we must be regular...
it robs you of the chance to be extraordinary
and leads you to the mediocre.
- -- Uta Hagen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:40:48 -0400
From: fridgeguy@voyager.net
Subject: fridge fan
Greetings folks,
In HBD #3416, Paul Dey asks how to deal with the noisy evaporator fan
in his newly acquired fridge.
Almost all evaporator fan motors in domestic fridges have sleeve
bearings. Over time they dry out and start to wear, or the original
lubrication degenerates into a sticky varnish. I've rescued a large
number of such motors by simply applying a *small* drop of light oil
(like sewing machine oil or "3 in 1(tm)") to each bearing. Rotate the
fan by hand to distribute the oil and reinstall.
If the fan is difficult to turn, add a drop or two of a petroleum
solvent, such as kerosene (parrafin) to each bearing and rotate by
hand until the motor turns freely. Try to remove as much of the
solvent as possible from the bearings by dabbing with a rag or tissue.
Oil the bearings as described above and reinstall the motor.
If the motor has been noisy for a very long time, the sleeve bearings
may have worn to the point where simply oiling the bearings won't stop
the noise. In this case, replace the motor. Whirlpool makes/made a
very large number of the Kenmore fridges and parts are readily
available at any appliance parts store. Bring the motor to compare. A
replacement should cost less than $20.
Hope this helps!
- ----------------------------------------
Forrest Duddles - Fridgeguy in Kalamazoo
fridgeguy@voyager.net
- --
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(c) 1998-2000 secureFront Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:45:00 -0700
From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh@nwoca.org>
Subject: Traveling Damage
Dr. Pivo writes:
"Anyone who has carted kegs around should be familiar with "transport
damage" flavours. If not, take one of two twin kegs, load it in the car
boot, and then drive around a few kilometres (a bumpy dirt road will
help), and then put the keg back next to its twin, and let them sit
until the next day.... the difference between them should be obvious.
This is also something I've not heard an adequate explanation for, but
falls in the "oxidation" flavour family. I do believe it is a "kinetic
energy thing" that gets those electrons whipping (how's that for a bogus
scienterrific explanation?)."
Thanks for the explanation Doc. Could this have been the reason for the
following?: .... Several years ago, in two separate incidences, I had
pubtenders in the Belfast area apologize for the quality of their
Guiness with the explanation "It doesn't travel well, and we're so far
from Dublin." I thought the first fellow was putting me on, but when it
happened again I was forced to reconsider. Of course, to my
unsophisticated palate, it all tasted great.
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:56:17 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: HSA, are we there yet?
John or Barb Sullivan asked: >>Perhaps I'm missing something but I
don't understand how oxygen can react with wort without somehow being mixed
or dissolved into the wort.<<
Is this at all like how the steel frame around my brewing burners rust?
I'm sure oxygen is not dissolving into the steel but the areas of highest
heat concentration show increased rusting. The rust *appears* to be
happening at the surface, not starting from the interior of the steel.
How's that for comparing apples and oranges?
N.P. Lansing
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:12:08 -0500
From: Lou.Heavner@frco.com
Subject: re: hot side/ cold side and other oxidations
"Dr. Pivo" <dp@pivo.w.se> writes in part:
>>>>>>
2) Raising temperature will not only speed oxidation, but I am
convinced
at some stages cause it. I've never read a single word in print to
explain the phenomenon, but I have mentioned here that the "rising
temp
in the secondary" is a way to make a beer that not only tastes of "old
barrel" immediately, but gets worse with time, even if you get the
temp
down later.
Why, this phenomenon even caused me to build an entire refrigerated
"cool room" in my cellar just to avoid that happening again at this
time
of year.
There is an old Czech expression: "When the plums are ripe, no beer is
good", and I have wondered if this does not come from the days of
fairly
primitive refrigeration, and that one just couldn't manage the cellar
temps in August... but then again I wonder about a lot of irrelevant
nonsense.
<<<<<<
Dr Fix is widely recognized on HBD as one of, if not the first to
caution about HSA. Interestingly, though, the only times I have heard
him talk, he was much more concerned about storage temperature and its
contribution to shelf life and oxidation based degradation. The thing
about HSA, whether it's impact on flavor is significant or not, is
that it is relatively easy to avoid or minimize. Just do it!
Temperature control, especially of 5 - 10 cases of bottled beer or
more, is a bigger problem. We just don't tend to have cold cellars
down in this neck of the woods. The only holes we drill in the ground
are wells or swimming pools. Frankly, I'm amazed homebrewers haven't
beaten a bath to KenBob Schwartz's door for a fermenchiller and about
the only people I envy, are those who are/have constructed their own
cold storage rooms.
Cheers!
Lou Heavner - Austin, TX, where it will continue to rise above 100
DegF for the next few weeks.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:38:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Hops & Dogs
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
AJ writes...
> J. Marvin Campbell's post reminded me that some of herbals sold at pet
> stores for dogs contain hops as one of the ingredients.
AJ: Was the bottle labelled "Spot" Remover, by any chance :-P
(Oh, I just kill myself sometimes...)
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:47:22 -0300
From: perry.johnson-green@acadiau.ca
Subject: unmalted barley
Does anybody know of a good source of unmalted barley? I like to
grow through the malting process myself, but have a difficult time
finding a supplier.
thanks
Perry Johnson-Green
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:48:52 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Really Big Brain (TM). O'Connor's
Brewsters:
Pat Babcock must have been referring to me as the HBD contributor with the
Really Big Brain(TM), since I have advocated for years boiling your wort
with the lid partially (~ 1/6) open <after the first boilup>. This creates
a steam jet which keeps the oxygen away from the hot and <reactive> wort
surface during the hour boil. You will find the color of your wort will be
lighter and the beer will taste much better.
- -----------------------------------
As far as Lynne O'connor's comments, I believe the attack here on this
business was incorrect and not the proper use for this HBD forum unless
actual details can be supplied to each of us in the form of a certified
copy proving that the attacker isn't one of those weird types who crop up
on the internet all too often. Without such proof I ignore it, which is
what I suggest you do. However, I also defend Lynne's right to defend
herself in the same forum with the same vigor.
As far as my own interaction with O'Connor's, I requested a catalog but it
was suggested I go to the website since they were "out of them at the
moment and they cost $2.50 ( or some such number) " but that I would get a
copy of the catalog, when they were available. I fully intended to order
perhaps $100 or more of grain and such right off the bat as I had just
moved and needed to replenish my supply. I never received a copy of the
catalog, so I voted with my feet and never bothered to order anything and
still haven't, which is our real option in dealing with any supplier,
isn't it?
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:48:25 -0500
From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <blackwod@rice.edu>
Subject: Choosing clubs carefully
>Jeff Kenton encourages new homebrewers to join a club. I agree--if the club
>is anything like the one he describes. It takes a lot of energy and
>leadership to keep a club as vital as the one Jeff describes.
Agreed.
>Tell-tale signs: central activity at monthly meetings appears to be
>the downing of lots of commercial beer, same few or no members bring
>homebrew to be evaluated, few or no newish members. Hanging around
>a such club is a good
>way for new homebrewers to lose interest in the hobby very quickly.
Based on my admittedly short tenure with Houston's Foam Rangers and
my knowledge of Houston's outlying clubs, The KGB and Mashtronauts, I
have to take issue with this assertion. I think that any
all-volunteer effort requires a few dedicated individuals at its head
to ensure the day-to-day activities of paying the bills, scheduling
the events and advance planning take place. You can't have the same
people doing these jobs year after year without a measure of burnout.
Add to that the fact that many people start brewing when they are
young, single and unfettered with a lot of obligations and as a club
matures you have brewers whose marriage, kids or job keep them from
being those key people or even brewers. New membership IS vital to
keeping any club afloat, but I don't think that having a monthly
tasting of commercial beer, even a LOT of commercial beer, when
consumed in the context of widening the understanding of a style is a
bad thing. My primary job within the Foam Rangers, (apart from
running the Dixie Cup, October 20 & 21st, 2000..be there!) is
providing the Beer of the Month. I go out of my way to provide beers
which are not available locally and expand our members understanding
of the style.
One of the hardest things to get around in recruiting is the fact
that our membership is full of "grim brewers" who can argue First
Wort Hopping vs. Traditional methods and concern themselves with the
intricacies of Hot Side Aeration. That type of in-depth knowledge,
while valuable, scares off the extract brewers who don't feel they
are in the same league as the all-grain experts. We've been very
aggressive in trying to be less intimidating and all of Houston's
clubs are dedicated to being fun people to be with, willing to
educate the new brewer and to upholding a high standard of technical
knowledge and proficiency.
-BDB2
Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:28:11 -0400
From: "Javier Blanco" <Blanco.Javier@NMNH.SI.EDU>
Subject: Inverted carboy systems
I am new to the list as well as to homebrewing. To long time users of
BrewCap and/or Fermentap: could you please share your experiences and any
modifications done in order to make these systems more user friendly and to
improve their performance? Any significant advantages vs using a carboy and
its airlock?
I am also trying to get some information on the Party Pig and/or Medicine
Rock. Anybody who have experience with these gadgets? How well do they
perform?
Please, feel free to respond directly to: blanco.javier@nmnh.si.edu
Thanks a lot for your help.
Javier
Woodbridge, VA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:23:30 -0500
From: Jim Bermingham <bermingham@antennaproducts.com>
Subject: HSA and Hops
Howdy Y'all
HSA, HSA, HSA it jest keeps gwine on an' on an' on, as enny body kin
plainly see. Ah believe ah said befo'e thet eff'n yo' brew fine beer yo'
doesn't hafta wo'ry about HSA. Eff'n yo' make fine beer it seems t'git
drunk up long befo'e HSA becomes a facko' life. Th' Good Dr., Th' Baron of
Odd Ideas, o' is it Th' Odd Baron who has no Idea?, John Sullivan, an'
"Some Guy" muss make mity fine beer. They ain't wo'ried about no HSA in
their beers. Ah guess Some Guy ain't wo'ried about HSA, tho' th' mo'e ah
read his post ah wonner eff'n he wrote it while he was dreamin'. Now ah
knows some beer needs t'age fo' a long time befo'e it is suposed t'be fine.
Ah guess eff'n ah's hankerin' somthin' aged I'll drink some beer wif Maw.
Thet way ah's suroun'ed by age.
Hops in th' yard. Graham, ah too haf allus jest dumped mah spent grains
an' hops in th' yard. Th' past few years ah have been warshin' th' hops
down wif water when ah clean up. Ah heard somewhar it might be bad fo'
houn'dogs. Befo'e then ah nevah had a houn'dog git sick o' die fum eatin'
them. Maby its on account o' ah have Blue an' Red Heelers which haf
Aestralian blood in them. Dawgone it might be thet city houn'dogs ain't
tough inough t'eat them.
Ah will hafta try th' asprin an' milk on th' Feral an' Pole' Cats ah have.
Eff'n th' baron want's some fresh skunk smell ah can send him one of th'
pole' cats eff'n th' milk an' asprin does th' trick.
Shet mah mouth!
Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:47:43 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Notes from Charlie P.
>>>>> "Warren" == Warren White <warrenlw63@hotmail.com> writes:
Warren> Paul Gataza quotes Charlie P... Of course adding a pinch
Warren> of cinnamon to my mash may be helping avoid hot side
Warren> aeration. Cinnamon is a strong antioxidant during the
Warren> mashing process, so I have been told by some very
Warren> knowledgeable old time Dutch brewers.
And here I thought it was coriander (ref: HBD 1576 and following, Nov,
1994, also Zymurgy Special Issue, 1994, p44).
No, wait! It's cardamom (ref: HBD 3303, April, 2000).
And now! It's cinnamon.
Whew. I can't keep up. :-)
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:08:25 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@merck.com>
Subject: Charlie & Advertising
>>Paul Gataza quotes Charlie P...
>>Of course adding a pinch of cinnamon to my mash may be helping avoid hot
>>side aeration. Cinnamon is a strong antioxidant during the mashing
process,
Warren White commented:
>We just know everyone is going try this one don't we?
>I'll be following this thread with interest!
Add the cardamom thread of months back to this one and we'll all be making
spiced beer! ;-)
===================
Kurt Kiewel said:
>I think that Lynn O'Conner has made very generous and informative
>submissions to the HBD, [snip]
>However, I think that she should not be allowed to advertise her products
>in an unsolicited fashion on the HBD. She clearly should be able to defend
>herself and her reputation against any statements on the HBD but she should
>not advertise a new shipment of bottles in this forum.
I agree with Kurt here. But to be fair this should not only point to Lynne,
it should be a blanket statement directed towards all vendors, shop owners
and e-businesses who post on the HBD. Advertising your products, sales,
specials, etc... is bad etiquitte in this forum. This is not a vehicle for
free advertising, your ads and plugs do nothing to contribute to educational
forum that is the HBD. However, it is my opinion that taglines should be
allowed which advertize the name of the service, description of the service
and contact information. This would be acceptable since it provides the
forum with information helpful to the forum members. Let us know that you
are there and we'll find out more for ourselves.
Let me use one good example: Domenick V. and Primetabs. There are others
too, but we won't get into that now. He has posts to this digest which
contribute to the free information exchange regarding this hobby and they do
not wind up being a shameless plug for Primetabs. His tagline contains
information regarding his product and contact information. It is a small,
unobtrusive block of text that helped me to find a new product. Without it
I may not have known of this product, which I have found to be very helpful,
for quite some time. I saw it, investigated it on my own and tried it.
Primetabs are now part of my brewing arsenal without it being shoved in my
face.
DANGER WILL ROBINSON! A MAJOR RANT IS APPROACHING FROM THE WEST!
The Internet is a wonderful tool, but in my opinion it has become
bastardized by the commercial businesses - just like everything else. I am
sick of ads. Everywhere you go, there are ads. I could have a totally free
website, but I chose to own my own domain and purchase the hosting just to
keep the little free-website-ad-bastard-elves from *&%$@#ing up my design.
OK. I feel better now. The vein in my forehead has stopped throbbing and
I've wiped the froth from my mouth. I personally boycott any business which
continuously hawks their goods or services in this or any forum. Maybe they
don't need my few $$ in the grand scheme of things, but at least I can say
"Tough shit. You're not getting mine."
As for the he-said-she-said regarding service complaints - everyone is
entitled to rebuttal in their own defence. But after that both sides should
STFU (figure that one out. Hint: Dice Clay ;-). No one here cares about
all the hair-pulling and jumping about from either side of the story. Take
the details off-line and please don't waste our bandwidth with this blather.
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"An opinion cannot be wrong - unless it contradicts mine." - me
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:50:35 -0400
From: "Gordon Strong" <strongg@earthlink.net>
Subject: Charlie, Phil and Lynne
A couple quick comments on topics that are probably old by now...
I think Charlie's books were fine for their era, and probably got a lot of
people interested in the hobby. But they were pretty much the only game in
town then. Better books have since come along that are more complete, have
more accurate and current information, and are easier to use as a reference.
I used to recommend Dave Miller's book for new brewers, but now recommend Al
Korzonas' Homebrewing: Vol 1. While only covering extract brewing, it
covers the fundamentals in such depth that it remains a valuable reference
even for all-grain brewers. I use it all the time for things like water
information, hydrometer correction, and ingredient descriptions. It's also
worth noting that the BJCP changed its recommended list of readings to
replace CP's TCJOHB with Al K's HBV1.
Before I got my Pico System, I used to use a Phil's Phalse Bottom in a 10
gal Gott cooler to mash. Here are a couple tips that I have to improve the
experience of using the Phalse Bottom based on about 20 batches' worth of
data:
1. Hold a mash paddle or large wooden spoon on top of false bottom, add
foundation water, then add grain along with strike water. Remove
paddle/spoon when weight of grain is sufficient to hold down false bottom.
2. Split a piece of hose (like you'd use for racking) down the inside and
wrap it around the edge of the phalse bottom to make a gasket. Experiment
with the diameter of the hose to help get a snug fit in the cooler.
3. Try mashing in a separate container (like a large rectangular picnic
cooler). Transfer the mash to the Gott cooler to lauter (use tip #1 while
transferring mashed grains.) I think I was happiest with this solution;
never had a stuck sparge.
Any of these would probably help, as would Dan's recommendation of
underletting the strike water.
I've ordered from St. Pats among other HB stores and had good experiences.
One small carboy was once broken in transit and was promptly replaced
without any hassle. Lynne runs a business, provides support to a lot of
homebrewing competitions, and volunteers for the AHA board of advisors.
While somewhat strident at times, she certainly provides a good service to
homebrewers and has every reason to be proud of and defend her business
against baseless attacks. In a day when businesses supporting homebrewers
continue to dwindle, it's nice to have reputable online places to shop when
your local stores don't have the items you need.
I think the theme here is that it's hard to watch people who've provided
good products and services to homebrewers be needlessly attacked. It's good
to encourage improvements and demand excellence, but I'd prefer to see more
information sharing and problem solving in this forum and less ranting and
flaming.
Gordon Strong
Beavercreek, OH
strongg@earthlink.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:11:06 -0400
From: "Rick Theiner " <Logic@mail.skantech.com>
Subject: Mash-in and Club Management
This first question was inspired by the question and responses to "Why
does the Phalse Bottom phloat?"
When I mash in, I put my grain in my mash tun first, which is why I've
never had a problem with my Phalse Bottom. I then pour in the heated
mash water (generally around 170 F, depending on the ratio of water to
grain and where I want my temp to stabilize) and then stir the hell out
of the mash. The temp stabilizes, and I cover it.
What are the cons to that? The big pro to me is that it's simple and I
usually don't have a problem with conversion. Comments?
(Incidentally, we just brewed a weizenbock w/ 9# wheat and 8# barley-- I
think the guy getting stuck mashes needs to check how fine he's
grinding)
- -----------
Next question/thought:
I started a homebrew club in Greenville, NC 'cos there wasn't one here,
and having just moved here, I decided I needed to make some homebrewing
friends. That was about 3.5 years ago, and we're definately showing
some signs of wear. I'm not complaining about our members and the
things that we do, but we're losing steam, and, to tell the truth,
didn't have a whole lot of steam to begin with.
When we started up, I was the de facto head and everyone pretty much
just wanted to follow. We instituted bylaws a year later, and we've
been electing officers and appointing directors, but we're still pretty
loose on doing things. It's sort of like we have 3 people (one of which
reads the HBD and I'm pretty sure he knows who the third guy is) who are
interested in having a good club and the rest of the folks want to come
to events and meetings and spectate while downing homebrew. (And then
we've got the people who see the rare presentation at a meeting as their
chance to show how witty they are to the rest of the club.)
3 people that are pretty busy on their own can't run an ideal club. So
what are some options? What are some ways that we can move this thing
to they type of club that we see in metro areas?
Rick Theiner
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:27:40 -0800
From: Project One <project1@pond.net>
Subject: Re: Using rain water
At 12:29 AM 8/30/00 -0400, Peter Fitzsimons wrote:
>Peter,
>
>My understanding is that there are 2 problems with using rainwater. First,
>the pollutants that it picks up on the way down to the ground. Second, it
>lacks minerals which are needed for fermentation. Noonan's "New Brewing
>Lager Beer" discusses these points in the water section.
>
> -------->Denny
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:00:12 +0930
>From: "Peter Fitzsimons" <peterf@senet.com.au>
>Subject: Using rain water
>
>Hi all
>
>There has been a bit of discussion about water lately in the digest. My
>question is about using rain water as it is clean and naturally doesn't have
>a problem with chlorine of any sort.
>
>What are the pros and cons of using rain water and what styles of beer would
>benefit from using it ?
>
>Thanks
>
>Peter
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 03:49:31 +1000
From: "Richardson, Martin" <RicharMP@Pasminco.com.au>
Subject: Yeast Ranching
G'day all,
I have just come across one of the best presented web sites on
yeast ranching that I have ever seen. It would be a great resource for
beginners interested in maintaining their own yeast supply and useful for
experienced ranchers alike. It includes storage under distilled water too!
http://web.tiscalinet.it/barboteur/beer/yeast_E.html
Hope this helps, Martin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:34:34 -0400
From: mohrstrom@humphreypc.com
Subject: Ahhh, there's the (HSA) rub.../ Chilly Yeast
SomeDude's thinking what I've been thinking:
> Years ago, I had heard that HSA occurs at the interface
> of the wort and the air, and this is why dissolution of
> O2 in the beer - virtually impossible in hot wort - is
> not a consideration.
Meaning that the more surface area, the greater the potential for oxidation
(whether the O2 is dissolved, or not). The worst case scenarios would be
foaming (possibly from 02 coming _out_ of solution), and wort aerosols from
splash/spray. Then again, could it be that some folks *like* the taste of
cardboard. (Remember "Space Food Bars" in the early seventies???)
> (Hmmm - this kinda flies in the face of AB's
> aeration tower thingy, though.)
Maybe not ... Consider A-B's "Born on Date" campaign to keep the shelf
stock from growing old.
* * * * *
Graham shouts on yeast:
> Even freezing it doesn't guarantee a high morality rate.
I can attest to that. Even through the cold Michigan winters, the little
budders are as promiscuous as ever ...
Mark (returning you to your regularly scheduled self-serving,
crassly commercial, homebrew shop shill) in Kalamazoo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:06:47 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders@paddockwood.com>
Subject: High Morality Rates in yeast
Graham Sanders <craftbrewer@cisnet.COM.AU> writes on storing yeast:
"Even freezing it doesn't guarantee a high morality rate."
Has anyone else had problems with immoral or amoral yeasts? Could it be that
for proper reproduction oxygen isn't enough, we should also be sure to
induce the proper moral atmosphere? Perhaps after oxygenating the wort, the
yeast could benefit from a stern lecture...
Did you mean "low mortality rate" Graham, or am I missing something here?
tongue firmly in cheek,
Stephen Ross
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3419, 09/02/00
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