Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #3397
HOMEBREW Digest #3397 Mon 07 August 2000
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Re: Palm Pilot stuff (Anthony and Mary Ann Tantillo)
re: promash software (J Daoust)
yeast storage (J Daoust)
Promash ("Richard Sieben")
Re: Black Cat Mild (mchahn)
Another Sooky, Sooky La La. ("Dave Edwards")
Re: PROMASH (Susan/Bill Freeman)
Help With Pilsner Urquell ("MrWES")
Re: BC Mild / Invert sugar ("Frightened Suburban Brewer")
Phils Philler ("Peter J. Calinski")
Re: Vernor's recipe?? (Jeff Renner)
Attaching bottle caps ("Bruce Garner")
Rail City Ale (John_E_Schnupp)
RE: Yeast wars are on... (EdgeAle)
RE: Stuck fermentation in heat (EdgeAle)
hit and miss (miss) ("Dalibor Jurina")
ProMAsh? ProMash?! Please... (Some Guy)
Enough Already!!! (David Burger)
Aussie Hops ("Mark Ellis")
Aus first, Infection, Leylands close . ("Graham Sanders")
Tannins,solubility & reactions ? ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
Short cutting brewing. ("Dr. Pivo")
Re: Palm Pilot stuff (Matthew Arnold)
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.
The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.
More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org.
JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 00:26:05 +0000
From: Anthony and Mary Ann Tantillo <amtantillo@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Palm Pilot stuff
Do a search on one of those Palm OS megasites like www.palmgear.com
or www.handango.com. There are a couple of beer
tasting databases, a couple of IBU calculators, and a style guide.
It would also be useful to get a document reader, and a program that
can convert a text or html file into a doc format or palm e-book
format file that can be easily read by the document reader that
you just downloaded. I've converted the BJCP style guide and the
Hop FAQ into the palm doc format by using such a program.
Tony Tantillo
>
> Date: 02 Aug 2000 12:32:52 -0700
> From: "Jeffry D Luck" <Jeffry.D.Luck@aexp.com>
> Subject: Palm Pilot stuff
>
> I recently picked up a Palm Pilot and am wondering if there
> are any recommendations for brewing software for the gizmo.
> Also, I'd like to move my brew log from PC to Palm and would
> like to hear any opinions on a good DB program, or a
> spreadsheet template or anything else in use.
>
> Feel free to post or email me directly, and include software
> in the email if that's convenient.
>
> TIA
>
> Oh, BTW, any vintners with Palm-ware may also reply.
>
> Jeff Luck
> Salt Lake City, UT USA
>
> Having a wonderful wine, wish you were beer.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:52:12 -0700
From: J Daoust <thedaousts@ixpres.com>
Subject: re: promash software
I have used promash for several months, and find it an awesome resource.
I do all-grain, mostly single step mash with a herms. The program is
easy to use, and does a great job going from one batch size to another,
keeping all the ingredients to scale. It is one of the best brewing
investments I have made. Plus, they have a demo that is good for three
recipes.
Good luck, Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:54:57 -0700
From: J Daoust <thedaousts@ixpres.com>
Subject: yeast storage
Has anyone heard of a kit called Yeast Bank?? It is supposed to be able
to help you freeze yeast in the freezer for use at a later date. Any one
else make starters and freeze them to keep 'em around for a long period
?
Thanks, Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 00:10:51 -0500
From: "Richard Sieben" <sier1@email.msn.com>
Subject: Promash
Braam Greyling asked for opinions on Promash software, heck you can have my
two cents! I downloaded the program to check it out and found that it
allows you to make 3 recipes without purchase. After playing with the
program for about 15 minutes, I decided that I just HAD to have it! it is so
far much better than Suds and is still better and more flexible than
anything else I have seen to date. Updates are made on a regular basis and
so far all upgrades have been free of charge. (unlike our friends at
Microshaft that call a minor upgrade/bug fix a 'new' product, like Windows
95 vs. 98 for instance, and demand $90 for the privalege!)
ok, maybe three cents worth.
I have used Promash for infusion, step and decoction mashing. the program is
flexible enough to accomidate you.
standard disclamers apply.
enjoy!
Rich Sieben
Island lake, IL
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 07:38:52 -0400
From: mchahn@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Black Cat Mild
>Wish we could taste it.
This beer is imported by Legends USA in Baltimore. It is available in
Cleveland. Don't know how far west they go. I haven't had it in awhile, but
I believe it is bottle conditioned.
Matthew Hahn
http://www.brewtechlabs.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:53:30 +0930
From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb@senet.com.au>
Subject: Another Sooky, Sooky La La.
Joe Fleming had a bit of a brain fart, and thought that it would be a good
idea to write this:
| Dear Janitor,
|
| My Homebrew Digest subscription seems to have been interrupted
| first by some Australian culture chat room and now by a seeming
| hybrid between Miss Manners and Political Correctness Weekly.
| Please resume my subscription to the valuable Homebrew Digest.
|
| Thanks,
|
| Joe
Now, I have quite a few yank mates (Russ, Kev, Marc, Pat, Rob, Tony, you
guys know who you are) but I'm sick of Americans having a sook about how the
Aussies on this list are always having a yarn. It seems that anybody from
accross the pond can do it as much as they please, but if all of a sudden
some Aussies get into a bit of chinwaggin' and it's all sooky sooky la la.
Doesn't anyone find it interesting that brewers do more than just brew? I
really like a lot of the casual, personal type stuff, and think there should
be more of it, it makes for a much more comfortable and friendly
environment.
Just in passing, I'd like to let big Phil know that yes even I too cheered
loud and hard when the Wallabies got up. AUSSIE, AUSSIE, AUSSIE, OI, OI, OI!
Cheers,
Dave.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 07:59:52 -0500
From: Susan/Bill Freeman <potsus@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: PROMASH
I have it. I bought it after several aborted attempts to find a program
I was comfortable with.
Jeffery Donovan's tech support is second to none as is the PROMASH
program itself IMHO. NAYY
Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
KP Brewery - Home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 07:59:49 -0500
From: "MrWES" <killshot@enteract.com>
Subject: Help With Pilsner Urquell
ProMash Recipe Printout
Recipe : Pilsner Urquell
BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
- -------------------------------
02-A European Pale Lager, Bohemian Pilsner
Min OG: 1.044 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 35 Max IBU: 45
Min Clr: 3 Max Clr: 5 Color in SRM, Lovibond
Recipe Specifics
- ----------------
Batch Size (GAL): 12.00 Wort Size (GAL): 12.00
Total Grain (LBS): 20.00
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.86
Anticipated SRM: 3.2
Anticipated IBU: 38.8
System Efficiency: 80
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Formulas Used
- -------------
Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager
Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Gravity
SRM
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
100.0 20.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036
2
Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil
Time
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
4.00 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.50 28.7 90 min.
1.25 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.50 7.3 45 min.
1.25 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.50 2.7 20 min.
0.50 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.50 0.0 0 min.
Extras
Amount Name Type Time
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)
Yeast
- -----
WYeast 2278 Czech Pils
Water Profile
- -------------
Profile: Pilsen
Profile known for: Pale, Dry, Hoppy Lager
Calcium(Ca): 7.00 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.80 ppm
Sodium(Na): 3.20 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 5.80 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 5.00 ppm
Carbonate(CO3): 9.00 ppm
pH: 8.16
Mash Schedule
- -------------
Mash Name : Pilnser Urquell
pH: 8.16
Total Grain LBS : 20.00
Grain Temp : 68.00 F
Total Water QTS : 26.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water GAL : 6.50
Tun Thermal Mass : 0.00
Step Rest Start Stop Direct/ Infuse Infuse
Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Infuse Temp Amount
Ratio
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
Acid Rest 5 30 100 102 Infuse 104 26.00
1.30
Protein Rest 10 30 122 124 Direct --- ----- ----
Sacc Rest #1 10 30 146 148 Direct --- ----- ----
Sacc Rest #2 10 30 162 164 Direct --- ----- ----
Mash Out 5 10 170 170 Direct --- ----- ----
Total Water QTS : 26.00 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water GAL : 6.50 - After Additional Infusions
All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in quarts.
Questions:
This is my first attempt at a PU lager. I've worked out a water profile from
80% deionized water and 20% Chicago tap water -- comes pretty close to the
traditional PU water profile. I'm using the formula from the January 2000
issue of BYO (thanks Lynn). As you can see from above, I'm using a plain
base two row malt. I know I can purchase Moravian Malt, but I have 50 pounds
of this 2 row in stock, so I'd prefer to use it. Since it's not
undermodified like the Moravian Malt, I'm thinking I really don't need the
step mashing schedule. Although, I am concerned that without an Acid Rest I
won't be able to get the mash pH down to the proper range. If I used simple
infusion what mash temperature is acceptable for this style? -- I've read
149F is used a lot. I could prepare a 1 gallon sample of my water profile
80/20 and see how much phosphoric acid I need to get the ph down to 5.2 -
5.4, and then just step it up from there, thus eliminating the acid rest.
Any brewers who have had success with this style please comment accordling.
Thanks,
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:12:38 -0500
From: "Frightened Suburban Brewer" <zemo@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: BC Mild / Invert sugar
I think I read (Category _?) that invert sugar can be made at home
by boiling together water, table sugar, and an acid. Let's say the
Recipator detemines that I need a pound of sugar for my Black
Cat Mild clone. How would I go about inverting it? TIA
Zemo
Batavia, IL
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 03:49:13 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski@iname.com>
Subject: Phils Philler
Eric:
>What I found was a black substance leaking from the Philler
>on to the bottom of the pail. I *think* the Philler is made from
>brass and coated with some nickel alloy. Upon emptying the
>bucket I rinsed everything with hot tap water. I also tried
>scrubbing the black stuff off with my fingers and a soft sponge,
>but this did not help.
Keep rubbing. I just use the end of my finger so I don't scratch the
surface. The black "soot" will come off.
I don't think it is "leaking" from the Philler. For me, it forms where
ever the Philler contacts the plastic. Some kind of interaction. I posted
a question about it a few years ago but got no replies.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:05:43 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Vernor's recipe??
"Blanchard, Steven B. Col DTHC-Pentagon" (but no email address, must be
some kind of secret Pentagon stuff) asks about Vernor's Ginger Ale:
>I can remember as a boy growing up in Michigan taking a sip or two of
>this concoction--remember it as very strong and burning all the way down. I
>didn't appreciate it as a boy but probably would now. I know it is still
>made but wonder if it is the same version of that I remember from the early
>sixties. Has anybody attempted to duplicate that Vernor's taste??
This Detroit classic original (is the old bottling plant still on
Woodward?) was sold only in Detroit and Cincinnati, where I grew up. It
was the only ginger ale I knew. It's much different from "dry" ginger ale.
My wife remembers having it hot when she was sick as a girl. It really
burns that way.
It still tastes the same - gingery strong and sweet. As I recall from the
advertising, Mr Vernor was a pharmacist who made ginger ale, and when the
US Civil War began (1860's), he left it (or maybe the flavor concentrate?)
in an oak keg until he got back several years later, and discovered that it
had greatly improved. It is still advertised as aged in wood.
Alas, I can't help with your last question beyond some guesses. It's
flavor and strong bite makes me think it's made with dried ginger rather
than fresh, and in the 1860's in Detroit, that's surely all Vernor had
access to. I think if you simmered a couple of ounces in a syrup of four
pounds of sugar and a couple of quarts of water with juice of three lemons,
then diluted this with water to five gallons, and maybe added some sorbate
and caramel color and carbonated it, you'd have a start. Maybe you should
age the syrup first to let the ginger really come through.
If you try this, please report back.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:30:50 -0500
From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner@mailbag.com>
Subject: Attaching bottle caps
I suggest punching or drilling two or three small holes in the flanges. The
cap can be stitched on with thread. I also wonder if a medical suture can be
used. The curved needle can be pushed through the thickest part of the
plastic sealing gasket.
Bruce Garner
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 08:45:17 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp@amat.com
Subject: Rail City Ale
Someone, I think it was Geoff (did I get your name spelled correctly?),
asked about Rail City Ale. I am sad to report that they brewed their
last batch of beer recently. I just found this out yesterday. The
brewer/owner, Bennett Dawson, used to have a homebrew supply shop and
a few years ago decided to try his hand at commercial/micro brewing.
Bennett, was responsible for getting me started in homwbrewing. I'm
told there was an article in the newspaper recently but I didn't see
it. I'm also told that he has enough bottles and kegged beer to be
able to supply for about another month, then it's the final curtain call.
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Homebrewery
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 14:00:27 EDT
From: EdgeAle@cs.com
Subject: RE: Yeast wars are on...
Wil Kolb sez...
>>I just got my bi weekly White Labs shipment and it looks like they
have felt/seen the Wyeast shampoo bottle. White labs has easily
doubled the amount of yeast per a much larger, base ball bat like,
tube. If this keeps up I will soon be selling full pint jars of white
labs yeast right from the fridge. ;-) Anyone pitched one yet? <<
Chris White (of White Labs) brought the new tubes to the last QUAFF meeting.
He says the amount of yeast is the same. It may look like more because the
tube inside diameter is smaller than the old tube and thus the yeast level is
higher up for the same volume. The a change in the r^2 cross-section area can
result in a much larger change in the height of the volume.
The new tubes and caps are much sturdier and are meant to solve some past
problems with leakage during shipping particularly in the summer. I haven't
tried the new tubes yet but as chris said the yeast voulume is the same so I
wouldn't expect any difference.
I have tried a free sample of the new Wyeast shampoo tubes. It still took
well over a day to start but I was making a lager in a fridge that is pretty
cold (~40-45F) for a primary. Still, since starting the carboy has been at
high kreusen for two weeks and slowly going strong.
Dana Edgell
- ------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, San Diego
http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 14:00:37 EDT
From: EdgeAle@cs.com
Subject: RE: Stuck fermentation in heat
HBD,
Steve Owens mentioned in a recent HBD that he has experienced stuck
fermentations durring an extremely hot summer. How exteremely hot would this
have to be?
The reason I ask is that this summer and the last I have experienced several
stuck fermentations in my garage. The temperature in my garage in the summer
is in the 80'sF (I live in San Diego and it never gets very hot). At these
temps I would have thought that the fermentation would be enhanced although
lots of bad fermentation products would occur. I should also mention that I
use water baths, T-shirts and a fan to keep the temp lower.
I would have also written the stuck fermentation off to the yeast pooping out
in high-gravity beers (I'm brewing for fall's Strong Ale Fest) except one of
the beers is 5 gals of wort from a 50 gal batch. Everyone else's 5 gals
fermented down to the teens while mine is stuck at 1.030. I tried rousing the
yeast, I tried adding a large pack of dry yeast. I tried adding yeast from an
active starter. No effect.
Currently Stuck: IPA, Mead, Imp. Stout
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Dana
- ------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell
Edge Ale Brewery, San Diego
http://ourworld.cs.com/EdgeAle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:27:24 +0200
From: "Dalibor Jurina" <dalibor.jurina@ri.tel.hr>
Subject: hit and miss (miss)
Hello
first excuse me about my grammar (spelling checker can`t fix that).
My first all extract batch is in conditioning stage and I have tasted it.
Since I have made all possible mistakes not bad.
List of mistakes:
Yeast rehydrated in filtrated water without Ca and other minerals (38
hours for awakening but working)
Wort aerated at 86 F and 6 hours till temperature drops below 75
(miscalculated and underequipemented)
Possibly that when removing trub siphon tube sucked in some water (and
not sterile)
After all this beer from bottles (have something conditioning in keg) primed
with sugar after 6 days taste like beer, but taste is cowered with strong
yeasty smell and taste ( since I still can`t recognize other off flavors),
and after drinking no more than 4 oz start feeling drunknes and something
like my all body vibrate ( certanly not pleasant experience)
Is it better to toss this batch or not?
Thanks
Dalibor
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 18:34:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: ProMAsh? ProMash?! Please...
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
ProMash? You're asking about ProMash?! Well, let me just tell you about
ProMash.
I've been using ProMash pretty much since the day it was introduced and
I'm THRILLED with it! The software meets the brewer's needs in terms of
available system settings for such things as evaporation rates, systems
efficiency, utilization, units (yes, Virginia: there IS a metric
system...), hydrometer corrections, water chemistry... Even inventory
control! The system accomodates just about every controllable item in the
brewing process.
The user interface is well laid out and fairly intuitive. You first enter
your recipe by selecting items from the item databases (malts, hops,
"extras"). All information about the recipe is displayed upon entry, based
on the system settings. You then open a brewing session and select a
recipe. You can modify everything about the recipe in the brewing session
- brew length, malts, yeast, hops - you can make it a totally different
recipe, if such is your desire, WITHOUT physically changing the stored
recipe - only the copy of it associated with the session. This is tres
cool when you look in your bins and find you don't have any Munich malt,
but have a boat load of another, or you are using a substitute for a hop
you don't have. Or if you simply want to try the same recipe with
different ingredients. This is great when tweaking a recipe under
development. Since the sessions store separately from the recipe, you can
do this all you want and never alter the original recipe. Plus you can
always go back and review your notes and the recipe variation from
previous attempts - they're all stored with the session!
There are things I have found lacking in ProMash over the years. Of
course, I've fed these on to Jeff Donovan and, where it made sense to do
so, they're no longer lacking (Hint: Support is EXQUISITE, suggestions are
gratiously accepted and truly considered - often incorporated).
In summary, for the computer savvy brewer, there are few better ways to
spend 25 bucks than on this beauty. Prior to this, I was a Brewer's
Workshop addict. BW is also a good package, but it doesn't quite compare
to the flexibility and support I get with ProMash.
BTW: I have no financial association with ProMash. I do, though, consider
Jeff to be a friend.
- --
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged
from my yeast lab Saturday
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 16:59:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Burger <davobrew@yahoo.com>
Subject: Enough Already!!!
Chunder:
Chuck
Blow Chunks
Blow Chips
Yak
Hurl
Throw
Vomit
Technicolour Yawn
Curbside Quiche
Driving the Porcelain Bus
Pricing Buuuuuuuicks
And my all time fovourite:
Talking to Chewbaka
Davo
Brewin in Emerald Victoria, Australia (oh no)
(look for Melbourne and then gain class)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:04:46 +1000
From: "Mark Ellis" <mark@glacierdesign.net>
Subject: Aussie Hops
Hi All,
Just checking about whether any of Aussies on the list
have caught up with any hops varieties here other than
POR or cluster. Anything "Olde" English or German in
extraction would pique my interest somewhat grandly.
Happy to hear from anybody on this, it would seem
fruitless search.
Thanks
Mark E. in Melbourne
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:30:38 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer@cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: Aus first, Infection, Leylands close .
G'day all
We its time to fill up the bandwidth with more useless rubbish. (must go out
and look for a good bathysphere when I get a chance) Sorry Joe
Now to all those who say "why is it the Aussie's fill it up", well I
shouldn't give away trade secrets, but its our dear Janitors fault. Now dear
Pat and Karl have made the HBD arrive like clockwork 2.30 pm each day. I
have organised my work to have afternoon tea at this time, and have a quick
read. Then by knockoff time, 4.00pm, I can formulate a reply in my mind and
have it typed and posted (with all the mistakes under the sun) by 5.30pm.
I'm sure the rest of us down under have similar timetables. Now this
ensures we always get in first. Now it also seems I keep chucking in words
no one can understand. I wonder if Pat and Karl can stick in a program that
converts our lingo to yours and back again. Come on mates, fair suck of the
sav, for all of us?
My thanks for Dave for his enlightenment on some of our customs i take for
granted up here.
Now an interesting experience on the weekend I must tell. I just hope the
person I'm talking about doesn't read this or I'm dead meat. Anyway I have
been teaching this bloke how to brew. More correctly he's the sort of guy
that definitely fits the role "a little knowledge can be a dangerous
thing.", and only wants to hear whats he thinks he needs and then forgets
the rest. Worse then he becomes an expert. Til the beers dont come good, or
just stays bad, and then its "Graham what am I'm doing wrong".
Anyway I'm a patient fellow and while its definitely two steps forward and
almost two steps back I am making progress with him, mind you ever so
slowly. SWMBO would have been quicker to teach (oh shudder).
So I,m summoned to his place. To cut this short he says look into my
fermenter. Now its been in there two weeks so should be ready to keg.
Opening the lid up I find a scum of brown crap so thick on top, it would
even support the opinions of some of the more verbose on the HBD. And I
mean thick, but not as thick skinned as some others should be on the HBD.
(i'm in one of those moods again). Yep never seen this before. I mean if
you saw this in a waterway you would be abusing the local sewage works.
Now to me its definitely contamination, and looks to me as some type of
mould. OK a check of his procedures are in order. Cant find an obvious
cause anywhere, and its starting to really piss me off. He assures me
everything is sterilized (dont go there people). Well he was making a beer
at the time, and next thing I see him do is run some of the mash liquid into
a cup (straight from the mash tun) and cool it down. Before I could finish
my beer, bang into his starter to step it up.
Well that found the contamination. It also basically confirmed my mould
theory (oh by the way If I'm wrong let me know). What I'm saying to all the
newies out there is definitely yes, at a mash at 68c, for an hour and half,
it willl not be free of bugs.
It may kill many bugs, but at least spores will survive, as evident by this
growth. Oh by the way this was not a one off, and had been happening to him
for a while. So why didn't he call me earlier. Well surprisingly this
growth had very little effect on the flavour of the beer. It was definitely
there, but well in the background and within many a yobbo's taste limits.
But he called me because he was worried it was affecting his final alcohol
reading.
Some things are very Australian.
Shout
Graham Sanders
Oh, Pat or Karl, perhaps you should cast your eye over this and give the
appropriate translation.
Oh just to fill it out more.
From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton@hotmail.com>
I am kind of hurt that you didn't think before you responded to my post.
But that is ok.
Now thats the spirit. I liked your response to my posting. All the
hallmarks of a dinky die. You are well on the way to becoming one of us.
BUT - you are going to have develop a thicker skin. Us Aussie throw insults
arround like a drunk head down in the bowl. The important thing is dont let
it get to you. Now thats the first lesson Phill will tell you at the
Burradoo Hilton. Second is shout me straight away I have a go at you. oh i
have a box out the back you and "rumpole" can fight over.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 11:09:06 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: Tannins,solubility & reactions ?
I was wondering if anyone could clarify a few things regarding tannins.
I've read what I could find near at hand but don't want to jump to
conclusions. Looking at the range of varying molecular weights
of tannins, from monophenols (not really 'tannins') through
the middle MW, to large, very bitter, tannins:
What is the respective solubilities of tannins in sweet wort?
And what effects on hot break and haze formation do the various
MW tannins have?
What I've read seems to point to a decreasing solubility as MW
rises (until you hit 172 F) that the smallest phenols may create
haze but not flocculate hard enough to precipitate the haze .
Medium MW polyphenols flocculate well but as the size increases
they lose their flocculation strength. And the largest malt polyphenols
don't precipitate proteins but only cause undue bittterness/astringency.
N.P. (Del) Lansing
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 19:38:50 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp@pivo.w.se>
Subject: Short cutting brewing.
Brian Lundeen informs us:
> Paddock Wood, and probably other places, are
> selling pails of fresh wort to their local customers that only require
> pitching the yeast
Actually an idea I had many years ago, and I'm glad to see that someone
has convergently evolved to this thought.
There are several reasons why I think this is a good idea:
1: Economics: The greatest portion of a beer's cost is from transport
and taxes. The last named can vary from humane to ochre (I think that
the word I used is actually a pigment, but there is a biblical word
which should be somewhat similar in pronunciation.... any Hebrew
scholars out there? Anybody who can speak "the Queen's".... I'm
guessing that this last category will elliminate anybody from the North
American continent, not to mention the "blueys").
If one can remove the thick bludgeon of "luxury tax" from beer, it can
be quite an affordable pleasure. Probably the best example of this is
in Germany, where it is a "luxury item", except in Bavaria, where it is
considered "food" and taxed as such (where I enjoy going around in a
white coat with straw in hand, and a serious expression on my face, and
saying "lieben medels kontrollen." and taking a sip out of everybodies
beer in the joint).
As such, the selling of "wort" circumvents any such taxes, and it would
be nice to purchase jugs at near production prices and see what one can
do with it.... perhaps someone else's wort is a good way to tune one's
own brewing skills, having one possible model constantly available to
compare one's work with.
2: Fermentation practices: I am a firm believer that the real "art" of
brewing begins once the yeast have landed in their new home. I have
taught a fair number of people to brew, and it is always interesting to
see how quickly folks who have previously made wines start producing
nice stuff, and how awful the same products can be from people who have
never fermented anything before. Knowing when to rack and how to rack
is as obvious as knowing when the dough has been kneeded to the right
consistancy.... to those who have done it enough times.
Having a consistant wort source would be a fine way to hone those skills.
3: Fermentation practices extended: When I have any thing that I think
is of value to say about brewing, I usually am allowed to stick it up on
Alan McKay's nice pages.... (I tried a bit here, but it really is
counterproductive to argue with the librarians.... so I just keep
referring to Phil's garden corpses and teasing Steve and George here....
lunacy and irreverance are hard to contradict). If any missguided souls
have wandered there they will note that I do not think the people in the
brewing industry are a collection of idiots. I in fact have a great
deal of respect for them, and enjoy quite good contacts with a large
number of them. They have the constraints of both the market in terms of
"the common person's taste", and the fact that transportation and
storage limitations quite narrowly define what they are allowed to produce.
One aspect that has repeatedly surprised me, is that even some quite
characterless products (when we are polite as tasters we say "elegant"),
can be quite involved little puzzles before they enter death row.... the
filters are the straps and the pasteuriser the death injection.... in
other words they are actually quite often making a charming little wort.
Can one sieze a single wort and make it twist through fermentation hoops
to nearly equal it's mother product, and then turn around and squeeze
some even more interesting flavours out of it, one has come quite a bit
along the way to awaking one's curiosity about wort composition.
So, hats off to Paddock Wood (whatever and wherever they might be), and
here's hoping that more will follow suit.
I raise a glass in salute (quite literally... let's remember that I am
the only one of HBD's frequent contributor's that doesn't give a
monkey's toss (geeeeze.... I wish I had an ASCII for that!) about
bearing the "drunk" admonition... in fact last summer I even snapped my
arm in a waterwheel just because a woman said she thought I was cute
when I was plastered).
I s'pose at some point I'll wander back into the game, and you can be
sure that plastic jugs full of wort will be available to anyone who
wants to do their own 'spurments.... who knows.... I might learne me sump'n.
Dr. Pivo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 19:53:10 -0500
From: Matthew Arnold <revmra@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Palm Pilot stuff
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 00:25:25 -0400, you wrote:
>I recently picked up a Palm Pilot and am wondering if there
>are any recommendations for brewing software for the gizmo.
>Also, I'd like to move my brew log from PC to Palm and would
>like to hear any opinions on a good DB program, or a
>spreadsheet template or anything else in use.
Jeffrey Donovan (author of ProMash) has a freeware alcohol, hydrometer, and
first strike calculators that are very nice. I hope he can make a miniaturized
version of ProMash for the PalmOS. Here's the link:
http://www.promash.com/PilotBrew/indexpp.html
John Varady has the complete BJCP guidelines in an easy-to-use format at:
http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html
At this point I haven't found a really good way to access my ProMash recipes on
my Visor. I've been itching to do some programming for it. Maybe that should be
my project :)
Matt
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3397, 08/07/00
*************************************
-------
