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HOMEBREW Digest #3176
HOMEBREW Digest #3176 Tue 23 November 1999
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Brewing Techniques (phil sides jr)
JS Bravado... (Harold Dowda)
Where to Write the Check (Biergiek)
Whirlpooling with pellets ("Dan Kiplinger")
BT is dead; long live Zymurgy (Dick Dunn)
Re: Best Homebrew bash of the new millennium?? (Spencer W Thomas)
He is! He IS that old. (the_hole@hbd.org)
Re: Wheat Sparging & Double Milling (KMacneal)
FWH reference Questions (Bob.Sutton)
MCAB 3 QE's Announced (Louis Bonham)
Bitter Beer (AJ)
Skilled Brewing (Eric.Fouch)
re: BT back issue order (Paul Kensler)
Wanted: suggestions for a book on yeast in brewing. ("Alan Meeker")
stuck mead ("Alan Meeker")
Re: wheat lautering (Jeff Renner)
Odd Day Blues... ("Tim Green")
Approximating FWH for Extract or Partial Mash Brews (how) ("Peter J. Calinski")
Stuck Mead... ("Tim Green")
open fermentation; wheat beer (Robin Griller)
In this corner: the Schmidling MaltMill! (Some Guy)
Rogue and Anderson Valley recipe help ("Czerpak, Pete")
Grain Mill ("Bob Mori")
Rose hips in brewing? (Beth Fuchs)
Re: first wort hopping (part 1) ("Robert J. Waddell")
Cheap airfares to MCAB II (Jeff Renner)
Valley Mill ("Grant W. Knechtel")
Comment RE: (P)lambic (Bob Sheck)
Summer brewing ("John Elsworth")
Lambics ("Rob Jones")
BrewingTechniques Update (Stephen Mallery)
Scotch ale/visiting St. Paul ("Russ Hobaugh")
Valley Mill ("Phil and Jill Yates")
Over-Bittered Beer ("Thomas O'Connor")
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 00:49:42 -0500
From: phil sides jr <psides@carl.net>
Subject: Brewing Techniques
Anyone have a complete or partial BT collection you would like to sell?
Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH
- --
Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!
------------------------------
Date: 22 Nov 99 01:09:20 EST
From: Harold Dowda <hdowda@netscape.net>
Subject: JS Bravado...
I can't say whether Jack S. mill is the best or not, but I can say that
his
attitude toward customer service has, so far as I have dealt with him,
been
superb. I have an Easymasher (dearly loved, death to false bottoms) that
has
had about a hundred batches put through it. Finally the screen tore
(that is
I tore it) and I e-mailed Jack to ask about buying another. His
response?
"Send me the busted one and I'll send ya a new one." Never got around to
doing that though. I took it apart pushed the screen up past the tear
and the
sucker even works better. In all my batches I've had only one stuck mash
(60%
wheat) that cleared with a "blow-back'. On the other hand, my grain
mill is
made by another well known manufacturer (I wanted to buy a JS mill, but
the
shop was out and I needed on fast)who promised that it could be
motorized.
True to form, I lost the single sheet of directions. Called then
e-mailed the
maker asking for a copy or general directions indicated willingness to
pay for
help. Received a promise of forthcoming instructions, waited a month, no
help, contacted again "ugh, well I remember you, did you send your
address"
type response (I did I still had a copy of the e-mail)another promise to
help.
It's been what 4 months now.
Yeah the mills on the market may all grind well, some may be better than
others, but whose there to back up what they sell?
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:23:26 EST
From: Biergiek@aol.com
Subject: Where to Write the Check
Jack Schmidling wanted some followup information on the adjustable
motorized roller mill that costs less than his standard non-adjustable
mill, which is by all acounts a fine product too if you are into hand cranking
and a fixed gap width.
>I have my check book ready. Where do I mail the check.
You send you US$99 to the folks at Valley Mill, I think they are on the web.
A search engine should turn up the URL. Not sure if they take gold bullion.
The motor is had from the Surplus Center 800-488-3407, there are several
motors listed on pp. 117-118 of the '99 catalog in the US$10-20 range that
would work really well (catalog number 5-984-B) . You just need a $3
coupling that can be had at any auto parts store. It is a very simple
exercise
to attach the motor to the Valley Mill.
Didn't realize the free advertising would be hot button for you. I thought
HBDers would like to know of other mouse traps that are out there before
they get relegated to the museum.
Kyle
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:12:26 -0500
From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami@iname.com>
Subject: Whirlpooling with pellets
Mike Uchima says: "Dry-hopping with pellets, OTOH, can be kind of a PITA,
since
whirlpooling is not an option!"
This simply is not true. I use almost exclusively pellitized hops and
whirlpool with great success. When the level of the kettle is low enough to
see the pile in the center of the kettle, I see no evidence that of any of
the trub or hops have broken off from the pile. The only time I get any of
this stuff coming out of my kettle is when I get greedy and tip the kettle
to get the last bit of wort out. Even then, it isn't very much. Actually,
I have a more difficult time whirlpooling when I use leaf hops.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: 21 Nov 99 23:22:32 MST (Sun)
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: BT is dead; long live Zymurgy
I hate to write this article because I am *NOT* a fan of Zymurgy nor of the
AHA in recent years...but honesty demands it.
The prompt is: "Rob Jones" <robjones@pathcom.com> wrote:
Subject: BT back issue order
> Has anybody received anything from BT after the letter offering to settle
> accounts due with back issues? I dutifully sent in my back issue request and
> have been waiting ever since. Glad I've not been holding my breath.
This is an echo of various notes on rec.crafts.brewing, where nobody has
heard a word from BT about back issues or any other sort of compensation.
Apparently they botched the finances, folded, took the money (whatever was
left of it after they screwed up!), and ran.
Now, no doubt, when BT was publishing, they were IT! They had all the
right stuff. But something went wrong financially (or at least that's what
they tell us) and they went under. That is not unusual, given either the
circumstances of start-up periodicals or the state of the homebrewing busi-
ness. But then we got the notice--"would you like back issues, etc., or do
you want to hold out for a refund?" and some folks who had a reason for
back issues chose that, while others (such as myself, a charter subscriber
who already had every issue) chose to hold out for getting something for
our hard-earned money. Well, nobody's got anything so far, and it means
that somebody is cheating and double-dealing. I was holding out for money
back--meaning that's what I'd asked for, but not that I ever expected it to
happen from a company that couldn't manage its basic finances. So be it.
Others had asked for back issues, which either exist or they don't. If
they didn't exist they should never have been offered; if they did exist
they should have been sent long before now...but apparently they have not.
Shame, BT. Shame! You've not only killed yourself, but by your failure to
deliver even on your shut-down promises, you've killed any future magazine.
- ---
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:52:28 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Best Homebrew bash of the new millennium??
>>>>> "John" == John Stegenga <bigjohns@mindspring.com> writes:
John> in HBD 3174, Ken Schram writes:
>> 216 days until the best homebrew bash of the new
>> millennium.
John> Hmm... Having a brew bash for the millennium a year early?
John> A warm-up, perhaps? The millennium begins at 00:00:00:001
John> on January 1, 2001.
Give it up. I'm on your side, but we'll never convince the masses. I
just did a paradigm shift, and decided to celebrate the "2Ks" this
year. Then us true believers can have ANOTHER party next year! Best
of both worlds! And I don't get hot and bothered any more when I see
yet another "millenium" hype article.
You remember back when the calendar shifted from Julian to Gregorian?
(Well, no, I'm not really that old, I just read about it. :-) There
was near rioting in the streets because people were convinced they
had just lost 11 days out of their lives. People aren't any smarter
now than they were then...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:53:28 -0500
From: The Pahntom of the Queue (the_hole@hbd.org)
Subject: He is! He IS that old.
Spencer write...
> You remember back when the calendar shifted from Julian to Gregorian?
> (Well, no, I'm not really that old, I just read about it. :-) There was
> near rioting in the streets because people were convinced they had just
> lost 11 days out of their lives. People aren't any smarter now than
> they were then...
Yes you are. You were there. I saw you. And they DID lose 11 days out of
their lives. You took them, strung them all together, and that's how
you've lived this long. Uh-huh! Don't deny it.
-The Phantom
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:22:48 EST
From: KMacneal@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wheat Sparging & Double Milling
In a message dated 11/22/1999 12:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ben Newman
<benewman@netscape.net> writes:
<< #2 - Pat Galvin says " I brewed a Belgian Wit with 50% raw wheat (step
mash) and had no lautering problems." WOW!! Good
work.
Can anyone else attest to such skill. In my above mentioned Raspberry
Ale I
use about 1/3 malted wheat and one day forgot to add the oat hulls I
usually
sparge with (science experiment in the making). To my surprise, no stuck
sparge. I do decoct all my wheat and lager recipes though. I think I'll
try
going "oat hull-less" in my "Aventinus" clone which I'm starting after
Christmas if anyone else can attest to using high percent wheat with no
probs, >>
My last weizen bock was 60% wheat malt. My wit beers have a couple of pounds
of whole wheat flour in them. I don't use rice hulls and while sparge times
can be longer than an all barley brew, I haven't had a problem with a stuck
sparge yet.
Dave Burley claims a "substantially better extraction" when double milling
grain. Dave, can you define "substantially better"?
Keith MacNeal
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:47:22 -0500
From: Bob.Sutton@fluor.com
Subject: FWH reference Questions
Jeff Renner provided a superb summary of the FWH evaluations at two breweries...
yet one thing still befuddles me. The reference beers were brewed with
traditional late-hop additions. I'd be curious as to whether the FWH imparted
any substantive olfactory or analytical differences as compared to introducing
the hops a the start of the boil. Clearly time exposure is one variable that
played a factor here.
Cheers!
Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:08:55 -0600
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham@hbd.org>
Subject: MCAB 3 QE's Announced
The Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing is pleased to
announce the following competitions are hereby invited to be
Qualifying Events for MCAB 3, which will be held in eary
2001.
In order to accept our invitation, the invited competitions
must e-mail me before December 31, 1999, noting their wish
to serve as a QE, giving me the competition's date (exact or
approximate), designating a specific person to serve as the
competition's MCAB contact person, and agreeing to:
(1) be open to all amateur brewers (i.e., the event cannot
be limited to residents of a certain area or members of
certain clubs or organizations),
(2) offer categories that include the MCAB Qualifying
Styles,
(3) use the BJCP Style Guide for those Qualifying Styles,
(4) limit the size of the flights for the final rounds in
the various Qualifying Styles to 14 or less, and have at
least two judges on each such panel, one of which must be
BJCP-rated (recognized or better). We also ask, but do not
require, that QE's observe these flight and judge
requirements in all preliminary rounds for qualifying styles
as well.
(5) report the names, addresses, and telephone numbers of
qualifying brewers to the MCAB within four weeks of the end
of the competition.
The competitions hereby invited are:
Kansas City Biermeisters Competition
Boston Wort Processors Competition
Reggale & Dredhop (Boulder)
World Cup of Beer (California)
Sunshine Challenge (Orlando)
Spirit of Free Beer (N. Virginia)
Dixie Cup (Houston)
Novembeerfest (Seattle)
St. Louis Brews Competition
CBS Spooky Brew (Chicago)
The Bluebonnet Brew Off competition is conditionally invited
to be a QE, on the condition that they agree that, if
necessary, they will move the date of their competition so
as not to conflict with the March 24-25 MCAB II event in St.
Louis.
We also will be having a QE in the Philadelphia area. The
BUZZ-Off has graciously offerred to stand aside as a QE if
another area event wishes to take a turn as a QE and is
accepted by the MCAB Steering Committee. Should no such
competition qualify, the BUZZ-Off will serve as a QE.
Additionally, we want there to be a Canadian QE again. At
present, we are having discussions with CABA and other
Canadian brewers before deciding on a specific QE.
Don't like our selections? Feel like we've ignored your
area? Don't get mad -- get busy! We're also holding open
one more QE slot, so if you've got a proposal, make it to me
ASAP. Remember, a large part of the MCAB is to give the
amateur brewing committee what *it* wants.
Prospective Qualifying Events should be established
competitions with several years of experience (read: a
demonstrated ability to handle a large competition), in an
area that has a substantial pool of BJCP judges to draw
from. Additional weight well be given to competitions in
areas that are geographically distant from any of the
announced QE's. Interested competitions should write me
before December 15, 1999, describing why their competition
should be a QE.
As always, if you have questions about the MCAB, please feel
free to write.
Louis K. Bonham
for the MCAB Steering Committee
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:34:29 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Bitter Beer
WRT Marc Sedam's overly bitter beer: One of the time honored traditions
of brewing that home brewers seem to seldom use is blending. Try brewing
a batch of essentially the same beer with little or no hopping and then,
after fermentation, blend with the over hopped beer. You ought to be
able to estimate the bitterness to within 10 BU or so by taste (or have
it measured) and can then do the math to determine the required
bitterness, if any, for the new batch.
- --
A. J. deLange
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:37:00 -0500
From: Eric.Fouch@steelcase.com
Subject: Skilled Brewing
Ben Newman asks:
#2 - Pat Galvin says " I brewed a Belgian Wit with 50%
raw wheat (step mash) and had no lautering problems." WOW!! Good
work.
Can anyone else attest to such skill.
Well *I* can! This makes me a skilled brewer?! I knew I would arrive
eventually!!!
Actually, Belgian Wit is my "House Beer". I make several a year, with no
protein rests. I usually mash in at 154F, with 40-50% raw wheat, and I use a
RIMS system. I have never had a slow or stuck sparge with one of my Wits.
Eric Fouch
BDYB
"I'm no Kyle Druey, but I once pissed off an entire list."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:44:20 -0500
From: Paul Kensler <paul.kensler@attglobal.net>
Subject: re: BT back issue order
>Has anybody received anything from BT after the letter offering to settle
>accounts due with back issues?
No, I haven't heard anything or received my back issues either... although
I did read one post a couple of weeks ago, where the poster was referencing
a back issue he had just "scored". I assumed he received it as
compensation for his account balance, but maybe he just found a few old
copies at a local shop?...
Paul Kensler
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:44:50 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker@welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Wanted: suggestions for a book on yeast in brewing.
Greetings fellow HBDers,
The activity of yeast in beer fermentations is obviously a key
determinant of the final beer's quality and a thorough understanding of
yeast biology as it relates to making beer should be an enormous help to
brewers (I know it has helped my beers improve greatly!).
I am seriously entertaining the idea of writing a comprehensive book on
the use of yeast in brewing. While there are some fine resources out
there they are, in my opinion, far too brief. Thorough coverage of all
the aspects of yeast biology that are relevant to beer production just
isn't
possible in a single magazine article or book chapter. Also, some of the
better treatments of the subject are contained in sources that are
either hard to come by or very expensive. Following prodding from Steve
Alexander I was originally thinking of trying to write a series of
articles in
Brewing Tecjhniques in the vein of Scott Bickham's nice series
"Focus on Flavor" but then of course came the demise of BT....
The purpose of this post is to solicit any and all suggestions for such
a book. What subjects would people like to see covered? What questions
would you like to see answered? What level(s) of readers should such a
book be aimed at? Most importantly, do you feel such a book is even
necessary?
Thanks in advance for any advice you'd care to give!
-Alan Meeker
Biochemistry, Cell and Molecular Biology Program
Johns Hopkins School of Medicine
Baltimore, MD 21287-2101
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:47:16 -0500
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker@welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: stuck mead
Regarding your slow/stuck mead fermentation
>From: Shannon & Angela Menkveld=20
>Subject: VERY slow mead fermentation
Hi. Here are a couple of thoughts on your stuck mead...
First, a pure mead (honey and water only, no fruit, etc..) is actually a
pretty poor source of nutrients for yeast to deal with. Mostly sugar,
mead musts tend especially to be poor in nitrogen-containg compounds
that the yeast need to make proteins and nucleic acids. Once they have
used up what little is present in the mead must, they essentially stop
growing and their fermentation slows WAY down.
You pitched WAY too few yeast initially - one swelled smack pack isn't
really even enough yeast to pitch for an all-grain beer wort which is
yeast nirvana compared to a mead must. However, you later corrected this
by pitching further yeast in dry form (I assume you followed the
directions on the packages and re-hydrated them before use?). The fact
that the fermentation is /still/ stuck after these further yeast
additions points strongly to some nutritional deficiency. The yeast are
starved for some necessary nutrient, most likely nitrogen which you can
supply by adding "Yeast Energizer" which is an ammonia salt that the
yeast can use for a nitrogen source. Another possibility could be lack
of available oxygen but this seems much less likely as the dried yeast
you added are well-oxygenated at the time you pitch them.
My advice would be to add some Energizer, and repitch with another
packet or two of rehydrated dry yeast. This should get things kicking!
P.S. there is a mead lovers digest analogous to the HBD that you might
find interesting....
-Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:03:07 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: wheat lautering
Ben Newman <benewman@netscape.net> writes:
>#2 - Pat Galvin says " I brewed a Belgian Wit with 50%
> raw wheat (step mash) and had no lautering problems." WOW!! Good
>work.
>
>Can anyone else attest to such skill.
I can. Every summer I make my ginger wit with 45% raw soft white winter
wheat and 5% rolled oats. Completely normal runoff in my 10 gallon RIMS
with a picoBrewing false bottom. As a matter of fact (tempting the brewing
gods here), I've never had a stuck mash - 2/3 wheat malt weizens, CAPs with
corn meal, a strong ale with 50% home malted oats. I haven't tried rye,
though.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:12:37 -0500
From: "Tim Green" <timothygreen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Odd Day Blues...
Dave Burley writes:
I hope you all had a wonderful day on 11/15/99
because it was an Odd Day (every digit is odd).
This is the last one we will ever see. After this,
there won't be an Odd Day until 1/1/3111. The
next Even Day will be 2/2/2000, the first since
8/28/888 (just in case you're keeping track....).
Dave,
If every digit is odd wouldn't there be other combinations that would
qualify such as:
1/3/99
1/5/99
1/17/99
1/19/99
just to name a few?
Tim Green
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:32:26 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski@iname.com>
Subject: Approximating FWH for Extract or Partial Mash Brews (how)
I do some full mash batches but, because of time constraints, nearly half
my brews are combinations of specialty grains and DME.
Typically I use 1 to 2 lb. of specialty grains in 1 to 2 gallons of H2O and
either steep or bring just to a boil. I then combine the "tea" with 5 to 7
lb. DME and top off to 5.5 gallons before boiling.
So, how could a person approximate the results of FWH for this kind of
brewing?
It seems FWH gets it's effects from the wort temperature, wort pH, and time
( like an hour to sparge).
(1)Could one just put the hops in while the "tea" is being brewed? I
suspect the temperature and pH profile would not be right in this case.
Also, the reduced volume could result in reduced utilization.
(2)Could one take the "tea" and bring it up to a typical sparge volume then
adjust it's pH and add the FWhops for an hour. In this case, why not do
the full mash?
(3)In (2) above, would adding the DME bring the wort to the right pH.
Any other ideas?
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:39:00 -0500
From: "Tim Green" <timothygreen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Stuck Mead...
For the question about slow mead:
>I know meads take longer to ferment that beers do, but nowhere have I
>seen any thing about meads only being 2/3 done after a year. Am I
>worrying unnecessarily, or is there something I should be doing? Any
>help or advice would be appreciated.
To start out with a OG over 1.120, the yeast is going to have a very
hard time surviving let alone fermenting out the sugars.
The first thing I would do is check the pH and adjust it if necessary.
PH that is way too low or too high is not unusual in a mead.
You didn't mention if you had added any yeast nutrients to your mead.
Traditional meads tend to be very low in the neutrients needed by yeast.
I have taken to adding a combination of yeast nutrient (DAP), yeast
energizer and crushed vitamins (normally 1 crushed 0ne-a-day) to my
meads before I pitch.
Wyeast's Sweet Mead yeast has a reputation for just stopping. Don't know
why, just seems to be a problem strain.
What I would do is make a starter from honey and DME and use Lavin
EC-1118 as the yeast. When you step it up, add 1-2 cups of your must to
allow the yeast to get accustomed to the must. Step it up to the 1/2
gallon level.
Add yeast nutrients and energized\r to your must and then pitch the
yeast.
Hopefully it will take off!
Tim Green
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:50:23 -0500
From: Robin Griller <rgriller@chass.utoronto.ca>
Subject: open fermentation; wheat beer
Hi all,
Re David Burley's statement that one should not allow the yeast head to
fall back into the beer at the end of open fermentation because 'it is
contaminated'. This is nonsense. I have brewed ~15-20 batches
*completely* open (i.e. no plastic, no lid, no nothing; put lid on until
yeast head forms, remove, leave off until yeast head has collapsed; rest
lid on until ferment is complete; rack), have generally allowed the
yeast head to collapse into the beer and have never had a contamination
problem. Furthermore, open fermenters have been harvesting yeast from
the head of yeast (top cropping) for a very long time; this practice
would have proved to be impossible if David's claim were true. There are
other reasons to not allow the head to collapse, but contamination is
not one of them. Imagine the poor bacterium which falls into that thick
head of millions (billions?) of healthy strong yeast cells!
A question was asked about lautering high proportion wheat beers. I've
only made three wheat beers, in each case with 50% malted wheat. I've
not had any problems with stuck sparges. The gentleman said that he
decocts; this could lead to problems couldn't it, due to gelatinization
of the mash during decoction? Perhaps lautering is easier when we infuse
or step, rather than decoct.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:09:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@hbd.org>
Subject: In this corner: the Schmidling MaltMill!
And in this corner: the Valley Mill.
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
> >I have my check book ready. Where do I mail the check.
>
> You send you US$99 to the folks at Valley Mill, I think they are on the web.
> A search engine should turn up the URL. Not sure if they take gold bullion.
Altavista turns up http://www.web.net/~valley/valleymill.html. The mill is
$119.50 Plus 19.50. That's for an imbalanced tower that is nearly
impossible to use. Want apples to apples? You must add the "optional" base
at $12.00. (While being able to buy the base separately is a benefit to
some, I really wonder if they don't sell a based with the vast majority of
purchases?) So that takes us to 150.50. As I said, I paid $158 for my
Maltmill. No "shipping and handling", no optional base. That was about
five years ago, and I shopped around to get it (it was also an excellent
deal!). They list today at $138 - awfully damned close to the price of the
Valley with the (in my opinion) necessary base. Full apples to
apples would put the large hopper on the Maltmill for another $29 (but
it's about four times bigger than the Valley Mill's capacity, again
throwing the comparison off. So, add 1/4 the cost...). The comparison
between 6 and 3 lbs is close enough for me. And, add the S&H, and the
Maltmill is about $3 more. So where's your beef?
Does your beef have to do with stainless steel rollers? Why? Seems like
Valley is happily giving them away because they really are an unnecessary
item. My mill lives in my garage. Not a speck of corrosion on the rollers
after all this time, so tell me again why I need stainless steel?!
In my opinion, they're both pretty much the same thing. Just a bit
different in the execution and the marketing. The Valley mill improves on
the adjustment knob on the Maltmill, but I offer that this is an
improvement you'll notice, likely appreciate and then never have cause to
use. In over five years of use, I only adjusted my mill once - and then
put it back to the "factory" setting as I "refined" the crush. It's been
there ever since.
> The motor is had from the Surplus Center 800-488-3407, there are several
> motors listed on pp. 117-118 of the '99 catalog in the US$10-20 range that
> would work really well (catalog number 5-984-B) . You just need a $3
> coupling that can be had at any auto parts store. It is a very simple
> exercise to attach the motor to the Valley Mill.
It is just as simple an exercise to convert the Maltmill. So how is this
relevant to the cost differential between the two? OK. You need a $0.19
bushing to adapt the Maltmill shaft to a standard pulley. Big deal. I see
no basis for a gripe here either!
> Didn't realize the free advertising would be hot button for you. I thought
> HBDers would like to know of other mouse traps that are out there before
> they get relegated to the museum.
Yes, I'm sure they WOULD like to know of the other "mousetraps"; however,
I'm getting a bit tired of people attacking the Maltmill for no other
reason than because Jack will respond. I've not once seen the creator of
the Valley mill contribute any ideas to the home brewing community through
any of the available forums I monitor. I've never seen the author of that
cheap knock-off of the Maltmill (the one that mounts the mill 90 degrees
from the Maltmill position, but appears to be otherwise identical) on any
forums offering advice or information to other brewers, either. I only see
Schmidling, Listermann, and a few others - and Jack is more of a constant
than anyone else.
And does Jack advertise on the HBD? Not as I see it. He has responded to
like questions and defended his products against posts that call for
direct comparisons in one way or another. I've never once had Jack come
out of the blue to "advertise" one of his products on the Digest. Had that
ever occurred, I'd not be defending him here!
Give the guy a break. He's just got over-developed entrepreneurial skills.
Not a fault, in my book. And he makes a damned fine, competitive mill.
-
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock
"Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:51:22 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak@siigroup.com>
Subject: Rogue and Anderson Valley recipe help
Hi all:
I'm trying to formulate some recipes to clone Rogue's Brutal Bitter and
Anderson Valleys Boont Amber. Has anyone had any success with either of
these - please share any ideas/recipes. Neither websites had too much info.
Thanks for the help. Private or HBD postings are great.
Happy upcoming turkey holiday.
Regards,
Pete Czerpak
Albany, NY
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:02:21 -0800
From: "Bob Mori" <bob.mori@poboxes.com>
Subject: Grain Mill
There are many grain mills available on eBay. Corona hand mills are selling
from $25 to $40. If they are any good.
Contractor Bob
bob.mori@poboxes.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:23:34 -0700
From: Beth Fuchs <bfuchs@chtm.unm.edu>
Subject: Rose hips in brewing?
Has anyone used rose hips in brewing? I've looked through the archives and
haven't seen anything. I have quite a few rose hips that should be ready
for harvesting within the next few weeks. Private e-mail is ok. I'll
collect responses and post them for everyone.
Beth Fuchs
Research Engineer
Center for High Technology Materials
University of New Mexico
1313 Goddard SE
Albuquerque, NM 87106
(505) 272-7844 office
(505) 272-7801 fax
bfuchs@chtm.unm.edu e-mail
http://www.chtm.unm.edu web page
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:40:41 -0700
From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw@dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: first wort hopping (part 1)
Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu> sez:
>Other attempts were made to
>actually hop the mash (!!); other early efforts involved running the
>sparged wort through a hop filter-- a "hop front" instead of a hop back, I
>guess...DeClerk steeped the hops in 50C water before adding to the wort (to
>remove "unpleasant" stuff); a later worker used 70C water. Both reported
>enhanced aroma qualities.
Thanks for the great post Jeff.
I think that this is where I got the idea that the hops were removed from
the wort
before the boil starts, as a "hop front" and hopping the mash would
eliminate them
after their use. I use one of those very fine mesh screen skillet covers
to remove
the hot break just as my wort comes to a boil. That would be a real mess
if I had
hops swimming around in there, so I use a weighted muslin bag that is easy to
lift out and wring the goodies back into the boil. I then add the
bittering hops
without a bag after about 15 minutes. But your post has me considering maybe
building a "hop front" just to play around in the brewery some more. #%^)
Robert
I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system. 'Cept for that
gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it
off the bed at night.
Women...
--Pat Babcock
*** It's never too late to have a happy childhood! ***
****************************************************************************
RJW@dimensional.com / Opinions expressed are usually my own but
Robert J. Waddell / perhaps shared. ICQ #7136012
Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspeider Brew-Haus Longmont, Colorado
****************************************************************************
(4,592 feet higher than Jeff Renner)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:02:34 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Cheap airfares to MCAB II
Brewers
Southwest Airlines has an internet special
http://www.iflyswa.com/special_offers/hotfares/ for cheap fares if you buy
before 12/2/99. For instance, several of us in Ann Arbor have already
bought tickets for Detroit to St. Louis for $29 each way, or $69 R/T with
taxes. (We're coming in on SWA 854 at 3:15 PM; arrive at the same time and
meet us at the airport). I understand there is a light rail line that,
while it can take up to 40 minutes from the airport to the Union Station
(by the hotel), is less than $2.00!
I understand that the whole schedule for MCAB II is not firmed up, but for
the pub tour and other activities Friday evening 3/24/00, you should be at
the hotel no later than around 6:30pm. It ends Sunday 3/26/00 with VIP
tour of the A/B pilot brewery 11am-1pm.
Plan ahead now, and hope to see lots of HBDers there.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:19:32 -0800
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK@hartcrowser.com>
Subject: Valley Mill
John Wilkinson writes in HBD 3175 about the Valley Mill
-snip-
>I not infrequently during the grind of my usual 20 pounds (US) of grain
>have the mill stall until I poke at it a bit or sometimes have to empty
>the hopper, restart, and refill. I attribute this to the passive
>roller not being driven, for some reason, by the grain.
-snip-
Another data point. I am part owner of a Valley Mill, and have never had
the mill "stall" in numerous batches with up to 25 lbs of grist. Perhaps
John has motorized his mill, and the power source is inadequate? While
I am sure the JSP mill is a fine product, I am a confirmed partisan of the
Valley Mill. Like John, I seldom change the setting on the mill, but do
like being able to do so. Wish we'd got ours for $70 US! Prost!
-Grant aka LabRat
Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei
Des Moines, WA, USA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:00:15 -0500
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck@skantech.net>
Subject: Comment RE: (P)lambic
Brad McMahon <brad@sa.apana.org.au> writes:
>Some commercial brewers rely on wild inniculations entirely,
>while some others add a top-fermenting yeast and expose the
>beer in the cooling trays after primary fermentation is complete.
>
>You can try making a Lambic but unless the content of your air
>is similar to central Belgium, you may not have much success
But because the indiginous yeasties floating in any given region
could also be favorable towards a great tasting (albiet different)
brew, one never knows until one tries it.
In the veritable menage of strange beasties circulating in my region
after the great flood, I think I would not want to experiment for
a few more months!
Bob Sheck
bsheck, me-sheck, abednigo! Greenville, NC
email:bsheck@skantech.net or see us at:
http://www.skantech.net/bsheck/
(252)830-1833
- -------------
"Madness takes its toll -- Please have exact change!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:57:11 EST
From: "John Elsworth" <jdelsworth@hotmail.com>
Subject: Summer brewing
For Those Down-Under,
I noticed that the replies to Darren Robey (hbd 3172) problem of brewing at
summer temperatures centered on choice of yeasts and beer styles. However,
there are a couple of techniques worth mentioning that can help make better
beers at summer temperatures.
The first is, of course, a glass carboy wrapped in towels, which are kept
moist with water (evaporative cooling). They can be kept wet by repeated
soaking, or by setting the carboy in a container and recirculating water
slowly with an aquarium pump. Evaporation could by enhanced by directing a
fan at the carboy.
Another technique is to immerse copper coils (clean) in the primary, and
have cold tap water slowly running through the coils. This works well with
primary containers with large opening, such as the plastic bin type of
fermentor. Once the coils are in the wort, a special lid can be fitted, or a
sheet of aluminum foil or cling-film can be used to seal the top.
Also there has been discussion on hbd about constuction of a small,
insulated air-conditioned chamber or box, in which beer can be fermented at
cool temperatures.
The chances of ending up with a badly infected beer can be lessened by
pitching a generous amount of yeast, and by moving things from primary to
secondary to keg as quickly as possible.
All the best,
John Elsworth
Hamden, CT
______________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:22:03 -0500
From: "Rob Jones" <robjones@pathcom.com>
Subject: Lambics
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 00:16:13 +1030
From: Brad McMahon <brad@sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Lambic Question
>From: "Eric R. Theiner" <logic@skantech.com>
>Subject: Lambic Question
>First, what's the difference between a Plambic and a regular lambic?
>I thought that a Plambic (aka pseudo-lambic) was a shot at making a
>beer like a lambic through formulation and additions, but not through
>the use of bacterial strains. But reading these posts more carefully,
>it seems that everyone is making Plambics-- even when all the standard
>bacteria and lengthy aging is used. What gives?
Perhaps Jim Liddil should be fielding this one if he's lurking out there
somewhere, but pLambic is a nod to the fact that only brewers in the Senne
Valley of Belgium are able to make true lambics, somewhat like the
"Champange" designation being only allowed on sparkling wine from that
region, or "appellation" of France.
The rest of us are reduced to making immitations, ie. pseudo-lambics.
To my knowledge it has nothing to do with the innoculation technique
specifically, just indirectly.
Cheers,
Rob Jones
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:45:09 -0700
From: Stephen Mallery <stephen@realbeer.com>
Subject: BrewingTechniques Update
I wanted to update the brewing community on the status of BrewingTechniques
and back issue fulfillment. We closed our subscription "pay-back" outreach
in October with an amazing number of requests for back issues. We have
been processing those orders and plan to ship them as soon as possible.
One important fact from behind the scenes bears consideration: With the
closing of the business comes a host of clean-up work, all marginally
funded (read: virtually unfunded) and performed by a skeleton staff of one
- -- huge thanks go to Kristina Measells for the outstanding work she has
been doing since the magazine closed. Without her help the closure would
never have been so smooth. This month has been dedicated to resolving
physical liquidations and final closure of internal books. We have also
been continuing our work on the Homebrew Publicity Campaign
(http://brewingtechniques.com/hpc.html) -- processing and mailing the dubs
of the ad spot is the first priority to help retailers capitalize on the
holiday season. BT back issue fulfillment will resume in December. We are
setting up a small, cottage back issue fulfillment operation for ongoing
back issue sales and fulfillment. Sales of back issues directly help
settle BT's outstanding debts and will help expedite responsible resolution
of our ongoing affairs. Orders may be placed online at
http://brewingtechniques.com/order_form.html or by e-mailing
circulation@brewtech.com.
Thanks for your patience as we move responsibly through this difficult
time. Thanks also to all who have extended their support, sympathy, and
well wishes.
Cheers,
-stephen mallery
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 16:18:32 -0500
From: "Russ Hobaugh" <Russ_Hobaugh@erm.com>
Subject: Scotch ale/visiting St. Paul
I am looking for advice on brewing a strong scotch ale.
I would like it to have some smoky presence through
the use of peat smoked malt, but don't know how much
to use. This is almost all grain, and I have seen recipes
using as little as 2 oz. all the way up to 3 lbs! What is a
good number to shoot for? Here is the mostly all grain:
8 lbs british pale
1 lb british munich
8 oz crystal 70-80
8 oz peat smoked malt
8 oz cara-pils
mash at 156 for 90 minutes, and 3.3 lbs of light malt extract
to the boil, boil 90 minutes. Add 2 oz of Kent Goldings or
Fuggles for 60 minutes.
Am I ok here or is this totally off base? Private emails are
fine.
Also, I will be in St. Paul MN for business for a week. Any
recomendations on where to stop in for a brew?
Russ Hobaugh
Goob' Dog Brewery
Birdsboro PA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 08:50:45 +1100
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates@infoflex.com.au>
Subject: Valley Mill
No offence to Jack because I have to admit I have never even seen an
EasyMasher. But why would anyone want a fixed space mill as opposed to a
Valley Mill? Unless it was infinitely cheaper, in which case you are
compromising. But it would appear that cost difference is not even a factor
here.
I have been extremely happy with my Valley Mill and have on occasions
achieved mash efficiencies in the order of 180%!!
I achieve this by putting twice the amount of malt through my mill than I
actually admit to.
The Valley Mill is the one for me until Jack or anyone else can convince me
otherwise.
Jack, why don't you send me one of those free EasyMashers you were giving
away left, right and centre before you tapped into that billion plus market?
Cheers
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 17:16:25 -0500
From: "Thomas O'Connor" <toconnor@nehealth.org>
Subject: Over-Bittered Beer
My thoughts on Marc Sedam's post on over-bittered beer:
The solution: Tincture of time.
I've made beers over-bittered to the point it would take the enamel off
your teeth, and by putting the puppies in the fridge for 6-9 months, they
mellowed and came into balance nicely. This is especially true of pale
ales, IPA's, and barley wines (which my fellow homebrewers here in Maine
afffectionately refer to as "Tiger Piss").
Don't give up on your beer. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised at
its own regenerative, healing powers!
Tom O'Connor
Rockport, Maine
"Is dona an rud a t-ocras, ach is measa an rud an tart."
(The hunger is a bad thing, but the thirst is worse.)
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3176, 11/23/99
*************************************
-------
