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HOMEBREW Digest #3150
HOMEBREW Digest #3150 Thu 21 October 1999
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Pilsner Facewash ("Phil and Jill Yates")
Re: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation (Bob.Sutton)
RE: Yeast Starter - Oxy vs. Sanitation (Fred)
cleanning a calcified carboy ("Douglas Evans")
Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation (Demonick)
Cleaning Carboys ("Peter J. Calinski")
RE:Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation (John Lifer)
re: Starter Stirrer? (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty)
Caramel flavor in Fuller's ESB (Ian Smith)
Sake (Dave Burley)
Sanitary Oxygenation/Carboy Crud (AJ)
Higher Alcohols / Bottle Conditioning (Nathan Kanous)
Last Chance to Qualify for MCAB II (Darryl Newbury)
antibiotics, starter aeration, and such ("Alan Meeker")
Yeast growth (steve-alexander)
Sake and Doburoku (Rod Prather)
WHy SSRIs are prescribed (Jim Liddil)
Re: Yeast Pitching Rates (Jim Wallace)
Magnetic Stirrers and HLT ("Rick Wood")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:11:13 +1000
From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates@infoflex.com.au>
Subject: Pilsner Facewash
I have had little time to comment further on Mr Laborde's suggestion that I
have a fetish with "after". Ron is under the impression that this is at
least the second time that I have offered advice on his "pesky habit", what
ever that may be.
Ron, here is the third time that I offer some advice. Your "Pilsner
Facewash" which you blame on your mini keg is obviously a failure on your
part to correctly carbonate the little fellow. No wonder he rewarded you
with a pesky blast in the face.
Set up correctly, the mini keg will produce possibly the best carbonated
beer you are ever likely to achieve. This is a point that most "experts"
completely fail to realise.
Having no connection with the kegs (and I certainly am not going out with
Dan Listermann!), I can only suggest Ron that you wash off your face and try
again.
Phil Yates
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:58:13 -0400
From: Bob.Sutton@fluor.com
Subject: Re: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation
Bill Graham <weg@micro-net.net> asked:
>The recent posts about yeast starter growth have been
>interesting, but I'm seeing an interesting dichotomy
>... folks who swear by lots of oxygenation, and folks
>who insist on the highest levels of sanitation when
>growing yeast. Frankly, I haven't seen any mention
>of how to do both at the same time. Off the cuff,
>it sounds like they are mutually exclusive, since
>the process of oxygenation would break any sanitary
>"containment"
yes... it's two mints in one...
To minimize infection, the air (or oxygen) source passes through a 0.2
micron "sterilizing" filter before it is sparged into the wort. You can
obtain a filter/sparger setup from most suppliers (Brewtek, Williams,
LBS.). These work well with aquarium pumps or with the Bernz-O-Matic O2
cylinders. If the alternative is "shaking" a carboy or splashing wort
around in a carboy, consider the sterility of the headspace in your
fermentor. It simply isn't. Such is the series of compromises we weave.
Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:15:04 -0400
From: Fred@KingstonCo.com
Subject: RE: Yeast Starter - Oxy vs. Sanitation
> Bill Graham <weg@micro-net.net> asks:
> Subject: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation
>
> >> All -
> >> The recent posts about yeast starter growth have been interesting,
> >> but I'm seeing an interesting dichotomy ... folks who swear by lots of
> >> oxygenation, and folks who insist on the highest levels of
> sanitation when
> >> growing yeast. Frankly, I haven't seen any mention of how to do both at
> >> the same time. Off the cuff, it sounds like they are mutually
> >> exclusive, since the process of oxygenation would break any sanitary
> >> "containment". Could somebody enlighten me on how this is done?
> >> Bill
Bill...
I typically use a 1000ml Erlenmeyer(sp) flask with a bubbler... I
have a 5# oxygen bottle, with a SS air stone.... I soak the air
stone and tubing (actually ALL the bits and pieces) in a bucket
of Idophor solution, air dry...and cook! Works for me.
Fred Kingston
Kingston & Company
http://www.KingstonCo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:33:28 -0400
From: "Douglas Evans" <devans@greenapple.com>
Subject: cleanning a calcified carboy
I had a carboy with these type of deposits and I used a C.I.P. Called PBW.
It worked in a amazingly way. would recomend everyone having a pound of
this cleanning agent on hand.
Doug
Vinbrew
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 05:28:42 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick@zgi.com>
Subject: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation
From: Bill Graham <weg@micro-net.net>
>interesting, but I'm seeing an interesting dichotomy ... folks who
>swear by lots of oxygenation, and folks who insist on the highest
>levels of sanitation when growing yeast. Frankly, I haven't seen any
>mention of how to do both at the same time. Off the cuff, it sounds
>like they are mutually exclusive, since the process of oxygenation
>would break any sanitary "containment". Could somebody enlighten me
>on how this is done?
When doing my single step starters, constant aeration is maintained by
using a large flask and a tall straight-walled drinking glass or
beaker. (A faux glass can be made from heavy-duty foil). Pressure
cook the starter wort/medium, innoculate, and invert the glass/beaker
over the mouth of the flask. Some method must be found to keep the
glass from sealing the mouth of the flask. (Very easy if using foil).
I've bent a few pieces of 14 gauge copper wire into U's. They hang
into the mouth of the flask and the glass is thereby kept raised about
1/16". These can be sanitized in the pressure cooker or with
iodophor. The media is gently stirred on a magnetic stirplate, and
stored in a draft-free environment (kitchen cupboard).
This simulates the action of a tissue culture flask and cap. The
flask is open to the air, but absent a strong draft, no nasties can
make it up into flask mouth. You may remember Louis Pastuer's classic
experient with the long, serpentine, thin necked flask. In the "old
days" we used to use sterile cotton to plug the mouths of the flasks.
You may be able to find sterile cotton in the first-aid section of
your drug store.
You can also use an aquarium pump, airstone, and microbial filter of
about 1/2 micron. An oxygen source can be substituted for the
aquarium pump, in which case no microbial filter is necessary.
Tubing and airstone can be sanitized in strong iodophor, the mouth of
the flask can be sealed with similarly sanitized heavy-duty foil, and
the tubing run up and under the foil with the whole thing held in
place with rubber bands. Give the starter a shot of air/O2 morning
and evening or more.
Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152 phone
(206) 782-6766 fax orders
demonick at zgi dot com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:27:56 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski@iname.com>
Subject: Cleaning Carboys
Three or four years ago I had a problem cleaning a carboy and asked the
HBD. Someone, and I can't remember who, I apologize, replied with a method
that worked for me. He (she?) recommended "scrubbing" the interior and
suggested using marbles or BBs like used in a BB gun. I bought a carton of
BBs and dumped them into the carboy. Then I rolled it around on a carpet
for a while until the crud came loose. It worked quite well.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Lifer <jliferjr@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation
Bill asked about oxygenation vs sanitation. It is my
opinion that adding excess oxygen by whatever means is
multiplying the risk of adding sufficient microbes to
infect your wort. This is offset in most cases by the
pitching of sufficient yeast to overcome the nasties.
But, the longevity of your beer will be nonetheless
shortened by these nasties. I drop the wort exiting
from c-flow chiller about a foot into fermenter that
has given me plenty of O2 to ferment wort without
exception. Never a stuck batch. A problem I see with
O2 addition via Oxygenator, is that this is quite
explosive and most people don't realize that
potential. Maybe most brewers don't smoke - I hope
so.
John
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:36:33 GMT
From: mikey@swampgas.com (The Artist Formerly Known As Kap'n Salty)
Subject: re: Starter Stirrer?
For those of you interested in building stirrers, you might want to
try eBay or some of the scientific surplus houses before you build.
eBay will _occasionally_ have good deals on used lab equipment, and
you can get very good deals from some of the surplus houses (I got
mine, which can stir up to two-gallon starters for about $7.00 us). It
seems that a lot of the stirrer/hotplate combos have a tendency for
the hotplate part to go bad. These units, still perfectly useable as
stirrers, then end up on the used market for very little money.
Their inventory varies a lot, but if you reside in the US or Canada,
try:
W.J. Ford Surplus Enterprises
http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/
They had a smokin' deal on veteranary ejaculators a while back. I
don't know exactly what, but there must be _some_ kind of brewing use
for these things...
***********************************
Go ahead ... try the sauce. The sauce is good. The sauce
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:59:02 -0600
From: Ian Smith <isrs@cmed.com>
Subject: Caramel flavor in Fuller's ESB
There were some posts recently with recipe's for Fullers ESB and IPA. How do
you create that distinctive caramel flavor that is so prevalent in Fullers
ESB? Is it just the ingredients (flaked maize or crystal malt?) or the yeast
or should I attempt to do a decoction?
Cheers,
Ian Smith
isrs@cmed.com <mailto:isrs@cmed.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:15:22 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Sake
Brewsters:
I too ventured down the road of sake making a
few years ago.
For those new to the subject of Sake:
<Koji> is a steam softened rice which is infected
with Aspergillus Oryzea, a white mold. The
enzymes in this mold are able to reduce starch
directly to fermentable sugars. This koji is made
using steamed rice and <koji tane> - the yellowish
green seed koji powder. Once you have a koji
which is totally covered with the white mold, you
can begin your sake by steaming some of the
<short grain> rice you will need. And you need to
have a <sake yeast> started. I used a malt starter
for the protein content and poured off the
fermented beer after chilling the fermented starter.
This softened rice is allowed to interact with a portion
of the koji and begin to produce sugars. A <sake
yeast> starter is pitched a few hours later. Additions
of rice and more koji are continued until all is added.
The fermentation is allowed to finish ( you
know how to check this without a hydrometer) and
the sake is allowed to clarify. As with nearly any
beverage, oxygen is a negative factor after the
completion of the fermentation, so minimize
splashing and the like, especially in something
as delicate as sake.
Fortunately, I had access to
real Koji from a Sake manufacturer and the
polished rice to make sake. Sake rice is
polished to remove the outer coating and
the quality ( and cost) increases as the polish
rate increases. I believe it can go as high
as removal of 60% of the total rice grain!
Apparently the outer coating of the rice is higher
in protein and increases the color of the sake.
Mine were nearly water white with only a
little pleasing yellow color.
My sake was better to my taste and nose than
the sakes available in the US. Unfortunately,
I believe in the US most sakes have
had grain alcohol added to them, as have
most of the lesser sakes in Japan. However,
a little bird at the base of my skull keeps
telling me that alcohol is not added in the US.
The Japanese law permitting this was as a
result of the aftermath of the Second World War
when rice was in short supply and sake
manufacturers got a law passed which
allowed them to add grain ( non-rice)
alcohol. Being of great economic benefit,
no one wants to change it. Some sakes
have water added to them to keep the
alcohol to around 14%, I think
The koji tane available in chinese grocery
stores is not the same koji tane as is used
in sake. The former can be used to make
a darker rice wine - sochu ( or sojiu) and the
sweet desserts mentioned by another contributor.
GEM are indeed an excellent company
to deal with, but at the time I did this they
did not have the sake koji. Choose the
lightest Koji Tane possible, if this is to be
your source. Like brewers, each sake
manufacturer has his own Koji Tane and
yeast which make up his trademark taste.
As in brewing and wine making, there are
sake judges and sake makers are rated.
Regional differences are apparent.
You will have to grow your own koji
before you start your sake so you will
need to plan ahead, like two weeks or so.
I had to re-read Fred Eckhardt's book
many times to understand the entire
process and if it hadn't been for another
book on Sake, probably couldn't have
figured the whole process out as well as
I did. I even re-wrote portions of Fred's
instructions so I could understand them.
Hopefully my discussion will help but
be prepared to be patient.
As I recall, there are three rice and koji
additions of increasing quantities of
these in the first three days. The sake
yeast which feeds on the sugar generated
by the koji is agressive and this addition
pattern allows the alcohol content to
increase over what a single addition
would do, as winemakers know. It is
a messy process, as I recall, and luckily
I did it in an open container ( plastic
sheet covering it) so I could stir it down
and the like. But it worked nicely.
Be sure to keep it cool ( 55-65F) or
you will get a funky yeast taste as I
did on my first one.
Use ? Rose ( ??) rice as it is a
high quality short grain rice grown
here in the US and close to the actual
rice used in sake manufacturer, just
not so highly polished. I believe it is
the rice used by US sake manufacturers
after they polish it to their specifications.
Sorry to be so vague, but the details in
my notebooks are still packed away
awaiting the completion of construction
on my hobby area, in which I plan to store
these books. If you have a real interest,
private e-mail with your questions will
encourage me to dig them out.
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
Anderson, SC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:33:58 -0500
From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Sanitary Oxygenation/Carboy Crud
Bill Graham asks about oxygenation of starters without introducing
contamination. One could get quite elaborate in this regard but it is
not necessary. To begin with, remember that pure oxygen is very toxic to
living things. It took eons before life evolved methods of processing
oxygen in controlled fashion and it was this which allowed the organisms
we descended from to leave the sea and move about in the air. This
aside, the inside of an oxygen bottle is sterile (or at least sanitary).
If you sanitize the hose and aeration device used to deliver the O2 to
the starter (and this can be done conveniently with iodophor) you will
be fine in this regard. Remember also that one of the benefits of good
oxygenation is that a drop in pH follows more quickly than without thus
renedering the starter more hostile to bacteria. I culture in 2L
Erlenmeyer flasks covered with aluminum foil which has been sprayed with
iodophor. The O2 hose and "stone" are pushed into another flask filled
with iodophor and left long enough that iodophor makes its way through
the sintered stainless and into the tube. After suitable contact time I
turn on the gas which forces the iodophor out. At this point I remove
the tube/stone from the iodophor and shake off the foam. The aluminum
foil on the culture is then lifted and the stone lowered into the
culture flask. The aluminum foil is then conformed around the flask
mouth/tube combination and left there for as long as I am supplying
oxygen. No disasters with this method thus far (touch wood).
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
WRT to crud in carboys: bleach is a solution of lye and sodium
hypochlorite. Thus water with any temporary hardness will deposit
calcium and magnesium carbonate. This is easily removed with acid. Try
vinegar but be sure to rinse very thoroughly i.e. until you can't smell
vinegar any more. Other acids, such as hardware store hydrochloric,
phosphoric, etc. will serve as well but require more care in handling.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:39:27 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Higher Alcohols / Bottle Conditioning
Had an interesting experience with a beer recently. Needless to say, I've
mean it's undrinkable, just "different" than I'd intended. I'm curious
about what I can expect with bottle conditioning? I realize there will be
no "hard and fast" rules, but will this "mellow" with age? Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:11:58 +0000
From: darryl@sagedesign.com (Darryl Newbury)
Subject: Last Chance to Qualify for MCAB II
The Entry Deadline for CABA's Canadian Masters is fast approaching. This
is your last chance to qualify for MCAB II.
You can download the entry form at http://www.realbeer.com/caba/
Note that the url is incorrect on the MCAB site.
Send you entry to
Wellington Brewery
950 Woodlawn Ave. W.
Guelph, Ontario
Canada N1K 1B8
by November 13th at 4pm.
Please note that the Stout QS is Sweet Stout, not Dry Stout as stated on
the style descriptions. Dry Stout will be part of the CABA competition but
is not an MCAB style this year.
Good brewing,
Darryl Newbury
Canadian Amateur Brewing Assocation
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:08:44 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker@welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: antibiotics, starter aeration, and such
>>>From: Bill Graham <weg@micro-net.net>
> >>Subject: Yeast Starter - Oxygenation vs. Sanitation
>>>Frankly, I haven't seen any mention of how to do both at
>>> the same time. Off the cuff, it sounds like they are mutually
> >>exclusive, ...
If you are going to use something like an airstone/compressed gas or air
pump combination then you will of course have to be careful that everything
that comes into contact with the wort is sterile (or at least as sterile as
can be). The air introduced can be sterilized by running through a 0.2 or
0.1 micron sterile in line filter which you can buy from some homebrew
companies. Disposable/sterile airstones are also available, as are
sterilizable ceramic or metal versions.
Forcing gas into the wort is probably the most efficient way to aerate a
culture but because of the expense as well as the hastle involved I prefer
to use a magnetic stirrer and a loose closure on the opening of the
container you are growing the yeast in. ( I just use aluminum foil). This
works very well and there is less danger of contamination.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> From: MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA <mmaceyka@welch.jhu.edu>
>>>Subject: Re: antibiotics and
>>>Having said all of this, in doing tissue culture, I use media that has
>>> antibiotics already in it to prevent infections from occuring. Alan
Meeker
>>> will tell you I do this because I am less than a man,....
Gee Mike, maybe this explains why all your data are so weird - they are all
artifacts due to the presence of antibiotics! Doh!
-Alan Meeker
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:42:57 +0000
From: steve-alexander@att.net
Subject: Yeast growth
Oxygen and sanitation ? The answer is of course to pass
the air or O2 thru a submicron filter 0.2 micron's are
readily available from several sources.
There are a handful of things that should be considered
in yeast propogation. The obvious thing is that you
must supply good yeast growth conditions - but also
conditions that favor desirable yeast function and
disfavor their bad behavour and foreign organisms.
You must be concerned about the behaviour of the yeast
en mass. Yeast are subject to several forms of
mutation, that is expression or repression of the innate
genetic machinery due to very minor and common genetic
defects. Perhaps the most common mutation is the so
called 'respiration deficient' petite mutants. This
particular mutation has been reported to occur at a rate
of about 0.5% naurally in brewing yeast, and such yeast
may produce excess diacetyl. This mutation produces
yeast which have defective mitochondrial function. These
defective yeast have an inherent disadvantage under good
yeast growth conditions, but under conditions of poor
handling or suboptimal growth conditions they can become
problematically prevelant.
Another common mutation problem is that yeast can lose
their ability to flocculate. I posted some time ago
about a study that showed that a significant difference
in flocculation can be had after only 10 bad yeast
selections (taking only the late flocculators). And can
be corrected with another 10 or so good selections.
Yet another problem is that some yeasts lose their
ability to ferment maltotriose upon mutation.
Flavor - there are undoubtedly many flavor related
mutations possible - one is that many yeast carry the
unused genetics for decarboxylation of ferulic acid into
4VG (mutating ino clovey weizen yeast).
Add to the above the ever present infection problems ....
How to propagate healthy yeast ? I certainly don't have
all the answers but a few rules make sense. Provide the
best growth conditions you can (O2, nurients, as well as
sugars). Select yeast based on product flavor - if you
taste even minor off-flavors you must plate out (re-prop
from a single cell) and try again. You should select
yeast cells which attenuate to the desired level - but
also yeast cells which do eventually flocculate (a
somewhat contradictory situation). If you are looking
for special characteristics - like top-cropping then you
should probably select for that as well.
Propagating at elevated temps usually improves growth
rate, but will entirely mask your ability to evaluate
product flavor. It also help in the propagation of
certain beer infectious agents. It's probably useful
for fast step-ups to brewing volumes - but I wouldn't
use it for repeated repropagation without further
evaluation.
One thing I suggested long ago - and no longer believe
in is the propagation of yeast at SG levels comparable
to the wort they will be fermenting. Propagating yeast
in 15P or greater wort actually slows their growth
considerably as the yeast expend tremendous amounts of
energy overcoming osmotic pressure. 7P-10P wort is
ideal for propagation. Despite the ever present
momilies brewing yeast probably NEVER cease to ferment
due to alcohol. It is the lack of nutrients and
osmoprotectants and O2 other growth factors that make
barleywine fermentation difficult. The same applies to
ion concentrations - don't have the figures under my
nose, but I would not propagate in either distilled
water, nor in Burton water as the yeast are penalized
in both low and high ion conditions.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:16:29 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr@iquest.net>
Subject: Sake and Doburoku
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:48:07 EDTFrom:
> Jaxson28@aol.comSubject: Info on Sake
> I'm interested in brewing sake for a close friend
> who loves the stuff. Does anyone know of a recipe
> or direct me to where I can find information on
> brewing sake?
Thanks to VIZECKY for the info on GEM cultures. I seem to have
misplaced all of my info on where to buy Koji.
I was very interrested in making sake about a year ago and did a lot
of research on the subject. Unfortunately time got in the way and I
never got the project started. One thing I did learn is that the
rice used in making sake is quite special. Not only is it a special,
rather bland culture of rice, it is also polished to about 1/3 it's
original size. This removes almost all of the proteins in the grain.
This type of rice is almost impossible to obtain for us normal folks.
If anyone knows where to get this type of rice, post it please.
For this reason, it is almost impossible to make clear Sake. What you
make in your home is actually called Doburoku. White or cloudy sake.
This has what I suppose to be a suspended protein haze that is next to
impossible to remove without adversly affecting the flavor of the
wine. Doburoku is part of Japanese folk culture and was made by many
families prior to WW2. Currently fermenting alcoholic beverages
over 1/2 percent alcohol is illegal in Japan though many ignore this
law. Once again big corporate brewing companies getting in the way of
real ale and home brewing.
My understanding is that Doburoku is quite tasty and has alcohol
contents approaching 21 percent. The high alcohol content is due to
accomodation by the yeast from fermenting the sugars in the amazake
while the Koji is still converting the rice to sugars. My
understanding is that the yeast survives high alcohol contents better
when introduced to low sugar musts and allowing the sugar content to
increase slowly as the wine ferments. The flavor of sake is supplied
by koji. I still have my recipes and thanks to recent posts and the
availability of Koji, I may make some for the holiday seasons.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:47:47 -0400
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil@vms.arizona.edu>
Subject: WHy SSRIs are prescribed
> From: "Scholz, Richard" <RScholz@refco.com>
> Subject: Re: yeast and antibiotics
>
> "Stephen ." <sn55@hotmail.com> <mailto:sn55@hotmail.com> asks about
> antibiotics and yeast in HDB3148
>
> The wine industry uses some of these to inhibit secondary infections until
> the yeast is done with the sugars. Check out Scott labs at:
>
> http://vinescape.com/scottlab/fermentation.htm
>
> look at the page on "Fordras Lysozyme". They describe it as:
>
> "Lysozyme is a naturally occurring enzyme extracted from egg white
> protein. Lysozyme attacks the cell wall of gram-positive bacteria leading
> to cell lysis and death. It is effective against Lactobacillus,
> Pediococcus and Leuconostoc bacteria. Lysozyme is available in an
> easy-to-solubilize powder form and comes in 1-kilo packages."
>
> I've been very interested in any compound that might lower the infection
> risk from the chiller into the fermenter and beyond. I have contacted
> Scott Labs and hope to know how much this stuff costs in the near future.
> They also have yeast nutrients and other fermentation additives. Hope
> this helps.
>
> - ---
I'll just insert my totally biased view. :-) Arsenic, cyanide, and ricin
are "naturally" occuring. Additives are expensive and are not a substitute
for good cleaning and sanitation practices. Many brwers are too busy (or
not OCD enough) to clean equipment as much as needed.
Mike Maceyka wrote:
> Having said all of this, in doing tissue culture, I use media that has
> antibiotics already in it to prevent infections from occuring. Alan
> Meeker will tell you I do this because I am less than a man, [insert your
> own snide comments here about one or both of our wives]. Haven't tried
> it with my yeast culturing.
You are less than a man. :-) doing cell culture with antibiotics is just
asking for the contamination from hell to strike. Also are you ready to
defend any question during your orals about what effect antibiotics may
have on cell cycle and genetics? Then watch your PhD thesis work go down
the drain. Regular cleanig is the key. celan the laminar flow hood with a
70% EtOH/1:750 zephiran solution all the time (i.e before and after each
use). Clean the incubators once a month. empty the humidifier weekly.
celani ti with Rocall II (tm) and then refill with water/rocall. Clean all
incubator spill immediately. Wipe all shelves with the above EtOH solution
weekly. No wonder I have to see multiple mental health proffesionals and
take drugs. :-)
I was aksed to elborate on the low pH culture stuff. I was told to make
YM/agar and then add sterile acid solution after autoclaving. This requires
that one predetermine the amount of acid needed to arrive at a pH between 2
and 3. One should do this because acid causes hydrolysis of the agar nad
heat exacerbates this. I now simply make my agar plates 'stiff' at about
2.5% agar and make the YM at pH=2.5 ahead of time. then I sterilize a
prepare plates. With these paltes one can then grow colonies from single
cells that are free from bacteria. As far a sacid I prefer to use
phosphoric but one could also use muriatic (ie. HCl). use appropriate
caution whenever working with acids etc. liddil.com ahs some stuff on how
to streak plates.
does anyone know if the hbd is readalbe on a Palm?
It appears the GABF may be dead. Currigan hall is likely to be out of the
picture. We can all say a collective "ahh to bad charlie"
Jim Liddil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:43:21 -0400
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Pitching Rates
>Kyle from Bakersfield:
>................... He recommends that 1.5 million
>yeast cells per milliliter per degree P is what is
>needed for cold fermenting lagers (half this for
>lager starter size,
- -------------------------
these are considered to be ideal pitching rates for breweries where they
have a yeast brink loaded with lots of fresh yeast from the last batch of
beer ready to be pitched again.. they are not raising up a batch of yeast
from scratch for every batch.
>Anyone making 2 gallon starters for their lagers and
>1 gallon starters for their ales? I received nothing
>but yawns from the diejest regarding this topic.
- --------------------------
In "Designing Great Beers" Ray Daniels recommends a much reduced pitching
rate of 10-20 Billion cells for 5 Gal batch cvompared to the 200-400
Billion breweries use.. he calls this the hombrew pitching rate (5-10% of
ideal brewery rate).
..this reduced rate is a lot closer to HB 500ml to 1Liter starters
This lowered pitching rates makes it more important that your yeast are
young , fresh, and healthy.. also proper oxygenation is important.
If you want to see the results of the brewery rate.. brew several batches
with the same yeast.. some people just drop the new wort onto the previous
yeast cake but I prefer to use about 250-400 ml of the thick barm for a 5
gal batch and I usually add about a quart of fresh wort to get it going good
I just pitched my 3rd batch of Belgian style onto the same yeast (DeDolle)
.. startup and full kreusen happened in under 6hrs. It seems to make a
cleaner beer with quicker primary completion. After the next batch it will
go to a local pub and pitched into a 1 barrel ferment and then to a full 7
barrel batch.
__________JIM WALLACE ____________
jwallace@crocker.com
http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:36:12 +1000
From: "Rick Wood" <thewoods@netpci.com>
Subject: Magnetic Stirrers and HLT
Hello All,
Just a few comments regarding magnetic stirrers.
1. A magnetic stirrer specially designed for culture use has a special low
heat motor and is built to minimize heat transfer to the stirred flask.
Most chemical magnetic stirrers (and homemade ones) do not take temperature
into consideration and in fact often incorporate hot plates as well.
Temperature rise on a poorly designed magnetic stirrer can be a problem,
especially if ambient temperatures are high already.
2. Most (all?) culture systems that use a magnetic stirrer do not use a
typical stirring bar but instead use a special suspended stirring bar. This
is to avoid damage to cells at the vessel bottom - stir bar interface.
There is a great deal of grinding/shearing action at this location and can
pulverize delicate cells. I have always been told not to use traditional
magnetic stirrers/stir bars with cultures.
I do not know how important such considerations are for yeast starters,
perhaps someone could comment (Jim Liddil? or someone else?).
Regarding HLT
I use two electric coffee makers for HLTs. These are constructed of
aluminum ;>) . One is 55 cups and the other is around 100 cups. When they
are turned on they bring the temperature up to near boiling and then
maintain temperature at 170 deg F or a little higher. There is also a sight
tube on both of them. I have considered insulating them but have not. They
work well with minimal labor, just fill and turn them on in enough time to
have hot water for sparge. I have them hooked together through a plastic Y
and leading to the mash.
Rick Wood
Brewing on Guam
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3150, 10/21/99
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