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HOMEBREW Digest #2928
HOMEBREW Digest #2928 Fri 15 January 1999
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
SG rise for bottling (Rod Prather)
Attenuation/Bleach (AJ)
home malting - bad info (Clifton Moore)
Batch still bubbling after 13 days (samuel c horton)
Hydrogen beer; St. Pat's bitching (Steve Jackson)
brewing equipment (DGofus)
Barley wine (Bob Fesmire) (DGofus)
FERMENTATION LAG (FLHNEM)
TN-HBoY, Mash Improvement, Wristwatches (Clint Thessen)
slow starter (John Simonetta)
High Temps and Plastic Pipe (CPVC and PVC) ("Peter J. Calinski")
Re: Liquors - information (Jeff Renner)
malt diastatic power and Bourbon (Jeff Renner)
Brew Pubs in Sarasota and Tampa (Manbeck, Brad J.)" <BJM@roisysinc.com>
starters (Vachom)
St. Pats Counterflow Chiller ("Mark Kirby")
Re: Diacetyl Rest (Jeff Renner)
Yeast/sucrose, RE: Infection = low FG and Slow Starter and Pix of a big brew (Joe Rolfe)
RE: rec.crafts.brewing ("Kelly")
H2 in Beer (David Whitman)
No! Not another Pat's Post! ("Andrew Avis")
Re: US Grown European hops (Andrew Smith)
Mazer Cup Reminder, Prize Update ("Ken Schramm")
Re: Diacetyl Rest (John Murphy)
Decoction Main Mash Temp. Schedules (Jim Bentson)
"Homebrewery Design Pages" Updated. (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
Pyramid Alehouse ESB ("Jay Krause")
RE: Brewer's Pics (Bob Sheck)
Pump with Rubbermaid (Doug Moyer)
Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
Enter The Mazer Cup! _THE_ mead competition.
Details available at http://hbd.org/mazercup
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:05:11 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr@iquest.net>
Subject: SG rise for bottling
How much should the SG increase when charging for bottle conditioning. How
much does bottle conditioning increase the ABV. I just bottled a batch and
mesured the SG. It went from about 1.015 to 1.019 or 1.020. Seemed rather
high for the addition of only 1 1/4 cup of DME. Not really a problem,
just curiosity.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 05:34:06 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Attenuation/Bleach
Jorge Blasig asks about attenuation. Attenuation is a measure of the
reduction in the "fermentables" content of the wort as the yeast have at
it expressed as a percent:
Attenuation =100 [P(begin) - P(end)]/P(begin)
Thus if a wort is 10% fermentables by weight prior to fermentation and
2% by weight afterwards the attenuation is 100*(10-2)/10 = 80%. To
measure it we simply check the specific gravity of the wort at the
beginning and end of fermentation using a hydrometer which reads degrees
Plato (% sugar by weight) directly or by converting specific gravity
readings to Plato or by subtracting 1 from the specific gravities before
taking the ratio and ignoring the small error this introduces. The
result is the "apparent" attenuation.
Apparent attenuation does not account for the presence of protein (and
protein fragments) or alcohol in beer and wort. Protein and FAN are, of
course, consumed to some extent by the fermentation and their reduction
causes a reduction in specific gravity. As the Plato scale is actually
based on pure sucrose solution it does not completely accurately reflect
the protein reduction but since protein content change is quite small
relative to sugar content change this does not adversely effect the
value of the method.
Of greater significance is the alcohol which is substantially less dense
than water. The presence of even relatively small amounts of alcohol
depress the specific gravity appreciably. To get around this problem one
removes the alcohol by boiling before measuring the specific gravity.
The ASBC procedure does this as part of alcohol determination. The
procedure (caveat: from memory) is:
0. Degas beer, bring to 20C and measure specific gravity.
1. Measure 100 ml of the beer into a volumetric flask
2. Transfer to a 500 mL distilling flask
3. Use 50 mL of distilled water in several portions to rinse the
volumetric flask and add the rinsings to the distilling flask.
4. Distill until almost 100 mL of distillate has been collected.
(At this point the distillate is presumed to contain all the alcohol. It
is made up to 100 mL and its specific gravity measured from which ABV
and ABW are obtained from tables).
5. Transfer back to the volumetric flask.
6. Rinse the distilling flask with small portions of distilled water and
add the rinsings to the volumetric flask.
7. Make up to 100 mL.
(At this point the volumetric flask contains all the non volatile
dissolved matter in the beer (sugars, proteins) but no alcohol (or
other volatiles) in the same volume as the original sample.)
8. Mix thoroughly, cool to 20 C measure specific gravity.
Obviously you don't need to do the distillation if you are not equipped
and it's probably illegal anyway. You can do the boiling in a beaker
equally well.
This specific gravity is used in the same formula (above) to give the
"real" or "true" attenuation. The apparent and real attenuations can be
substantially different. A beer with an apparent attenuation of 80-85%
may have a real attenuation of only 60% (where do you think that beer
gut comes from?).
As you can see, measurement of apparent attenuation is a snap and true
attenuation a real PITA. Most people never bother with true attenuation
for this reason. The difference between true and apparent depend on the
wort composition and while you could probably come up with some single
factor which gets you a reasonable true attenuation number from a real
one there would certainly be cases where it would be quite far off. Why
does one really care? We generally look at apparent attenuation as a
means of determining that the fermentation is complete (gentlemen:
remember your agreement) and at the level that we expect based on
experience (or the experience of others) for a given recipe.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Jack Schmidling had a comment about effective bleach concentration. I
haven't seen anything about this recently so here are a couple of
thoughts.
The effectiveness of bleach depends on contact time, temperature,
concentration, pH, type of organism and desired log kill ratio for that
organism. The following data, taken from the water treatment industry,
give values for Giardia which aren't beer or wort spoilers (though they
can spoil your day) so use these to appreciate the variability. The
absolute numbers are probably roughly representative of values for
brewery organisms. Log kill of 1 means 10% of cells survive the
treatment, 2 means 1%, 3 means .1% and so on. Ct is the product of
available chlorine concentration in mg/L and t in minutes.
log 50F 77F
kill pH Ct Ct
3 6 87 29 mg-minutes/L
3 7 124 41
3 8 182 61
3 9 265 88
Thus it is clear that low pH (which converts charged OCL- ions into
uncharged HOCL molecules which are better able to penetrate the slime
coating of bacteria) and high temperature can effectively reduce the
required Ct.
Household bleach is 5 "trade percent". This means that 28 ml of bleach
(about an ounce) contains (0.05)(28) = 1.4 grams of chlorine. Added to 1
gallon of water (3.78 liters) gives a concentration of 370 mg/L. This is
a very strong solution which at pH 9 would require less than a minute
to achieve a log kill of 3 against Giardia even if the solution were a
cold 50F but only a quarter of a minute at 77F.
An issue with household bleach is that it contains lots of lye which
stabilizes it for shipment and storage but results in high pH. I'd guess
that a dilution of one Oz/gal would probably result in a pH of near 9.
Hypochlorite is most effective at pH 5 or so. One Oz/gal at pH adjusted
to near 5 should certainly do the job against most brewery organisms
(except, I'll bet, Pediococcus) in a matter of seconds. This does not
mean I think you should dump acid into your bleach solution unless you
know what you are doing and can measure the pH (papers would be fine for
this). Using warm or even hot water should be a big help.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:08:40 -0800
From: Clifton Moore <cmoore@gi.alaska.edu>
Subject: home malting - bad info
<fontfamily><param>Chicago</param><smaller>Dick,
Thank you for coming to my defense in pointing out some of the less
than helpful responses I got from my malting inquiry. I think that the
explanation is that most people do not read HBD very carefully, and for
that matter many of the posts are not constructed with great clarity.
I am happy to report that I have gotten no rude flames from my post,
and some respondents were able to relay ideas from personal
experience.
You are correct in your reading. I arranged with three farmers in
different regions of interior Alaska, to grow Harrington malting barley
seed that I purchased from Canada. The largest planting went into the
ground late, suffered a dry spring, and a wet summer. The yield was
good, but the seed was too green and wet at harvest to consider for
malting. Smaller plots in Delta and Fairbanks yielded the bulk of what
I am experimenting with.
My objective is to be able to malt enough of it that I can persuade one
of the two Fairbanks micro breweries to make a batch. An
all-Alaskan-malt seasonal should go over well I would think.
Due largely to economies of scale, the economic prospects of a malting
industry in interior Alaska are admittedly bleak, but I have taken this
on as a long term project, and feel little dissuaded by the limited
success to date.
I should note, that despite the troubles with germination percentages
and synchrony, I have managed to produce some very nice ale from what
was grown in a heap on my garage floor.
It took all my brewing skill to get a clean mash, but the finished
product is as easy to drink as anything I have ever produced.
This surprised me, as I had suspected that the approximately 25% dud
(non-germinating) grains would have spoiled the flavor of the finished
product, but this was just not the case.
The diastatic power was low probably due to my inexperience with
identifying conversion degree. I can offer that I feel that crushing
the seed between fingers is a better way to evaluate conversion than
the often noted "achrospire length = 75% seed length". Conversion
causes a distinct softening of the tissues that is easily identified
tactually with a little experience. For those who are familiar with
growing barley, it is much like the "soft doe" stage of seed
development, if I remember the term correctly. The fully converted
malt is almost like a drop of heavy cream when crushed from its coat.
Then there may have been some enzyme damage done when I used my
converted keg mash tun, fitted with a muffin fan, as a kiln. Not
exactly what I consider good temperature control.
It was here on HBD some time back that I remember a poster asserting
that the secret to malting is in the steep. At the time this statement
sounded unlikely and counter-intuitive. I am at this stage a clear
believer that identifying a steeping schedule tailored to the specific
batch of barley is crucial to malting. It is unfortunate that malting
is such a bastion of proprietary skills. I understand now the reason
why malting is largely a segregated industry from brewing. Malting is
harder than brewing.
I am also working on a model of malting as the first industrial scale
food-processing endeavor ever invented by humans. I have heard that
olives have great claims to antiquity, but surely malt must predate
pickled olives.
Clifton Moore
cmoore@gi.alaska.edu
</smaller></fontfamily>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:14:06 est
From: shorton@juno.com (samuel c horton)
Subject: Batch still bubbling after 13 days
Started a extract batch on Jan. 1,1999 and 13 days later
its still bubbling...Took the lid off to check what's going on
and there are little floaties on the surface...Don't know if
its bad or what can someone help me with this problem.
Private emails are welcome
SAMUEL
KD4ESV
EL87RL
BRADENTON
FLORIDA
___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 04:53:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Hydrogen beer; St. Pat's bitching
I was going to sit out both of these topics, but seeing as how no one
has addressed the fallacy of the first, and how I'm feeling feisty
about the second, here goes:
The hydrogen beer story is a brand-spanking-new urban legend that has
traveled an amazing number of miles in the short time it's been
circulating. One thing that people forget when reading this is that
hydrogen is incredibly flammable (anyone remember the Hindenburg?)
Also, the flame is invisible, defeating the whole purpose of lighting
the hydrogen beer belch on fire for all to see and marvel at.
As for St. Pat's, can't we just drop this already? Some people like
St. Pat's, some people don't. Big surprise. This is how capitalism
works, folks. I happen to detest Wal-Mart and wouldn't set foot in one
unless, maybe, my life somehow depended on it. Obviously, lots of
people disagree. But fortunately, I can run to Target instead. Same
deal with St. Pat's. If you like it, fine; keep shopping there. If you
don't, fine; shop somewhere else. I do know how to use my page-down
key, but my finger's getting tired
<rant mode off>
-Steve in Indianapolis.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:00:47 EST
From: DGofus@aol.com
Subject: brewing equipment
I need some advice. I am a new (4 batches) all grain brewer. I have converted
kegs as mash/lauter tuns and kettles. My pronlem is that I must work on the
gravity system and lifting the kegs high enough with water is a bit too much.
I also am running into the problem of temperature control, the winter cold
makes temp regulation a problem with these kegs. Would I do better to get two
gott(rubbermaid) coolers for the mash/ lauter tuns for easier lifting and temp
control, or maybe a pump system and some thermal type wraps to keep temps were
they need to be. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewery
Pottstown, PA
Dgofus@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:03:30 EST
From: DGofus@aol.com
Subject: Barley wine (Bob Fesmire)
I am a new all grain brewer and would like to try my hand at a Barley wine.
Any proven recipes or advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewery
Pottstown, PA
Dgofus@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:10:22 EST
From: FLHNEM@aol.com
Subject: FERMENTATION LAG
I recently brewed my fourth extract brew. I broke the yeast packet 36
hours b4. The average temp in my house is 58-60. I only run the heat in the
morning and again in evening for a couple hrs. There was no noticable change
in volume of yeast so I first pitched it into a quart of 80 degree wort for 3
hrs b4 dumping that into the 5 gal. It was 2 !/2 days before I had active
fermentation.
My questions are this; What can I do to get yeast going quicker? Swich to
lager yeast? Can I place the packet at the foot of my waterbed or is 90
degrees too hot? I am also unclear as to what if any harm is done by this
delay. Is it just the potential for wild yeast to take over or is there more
to it? Thanks.
Fra
nk Hight
Worce
ster, Ma
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:31:09 -0600
From: Clint Thessen <cthessen@mdc.com>
Subject: TN-HBoY, Mash Improvement, Wristwatches
Hi Folks,
I've been reading the HBD for about two years. I've
also been reading all the back issues. I'm up to OCT96
right now... whew, just about finished. It's pretty
interesting to observe the dynamics of this digest over the
past few years. The more things change the more they
remain the same...
Anyway, Chuck Bernard asked how he could "level"
the playing field for the TN Hombrewer of the Year
Award. Well, not having administered this type of
competition, did you think of just averaging the scores?
By calculating the average pts/entry you will be eliminating
the numerical advantage that some brewers would have by
entering alot of competitions. The person with highest
pts/entry for the year would be the person who
consistently brews and scores well. The minimum entry
requirements to qualify would eliminate the inconsistent
brewer. Something to think about.
I've done 6 all-grain batches so far. I really like
doing it. Are my beers that much better... well once I get
more experience I'm sure they will. All the batches have
the same grain bill and water treatment. The only
differences have been hops and yeast. I've been wanting
to perfect (at least to my senses) a style at time. My first 5
batches I only got about 25 pts-gal/lb doing two step
mashes and a mashout with about a 30 min sparge. I was
dissatisfied with that performance so I read a little Fix and
decided to do the 40-60-70 mash schedule plus mashout
AND increase sparge time to about an hour. Well, this
last batch I got just over 31 pts-gal/lb. Now I'm happy
with that performance. We'll see how well the beer tastes
in a couple of weeks. So, was the mash schedule of the
increase in sparge time. Maybe a combination of both I
don't know... but I'll be doing this way in future. Just a
datapoint.
Now for something not-so-completely different. My
Mickey Mouse wristwatch that I've had for about 10 yrs is
dead. I'm in the hunt for another watch. I would like to
get a watch that has some brewery logo on it or be beer
related somehow. Can anyone point me to such an animal
or does something like this even exist? I checked the
Paulaner website and they don't sell watches. Thanks.
Some or all responses can be to my E-Mail address or
posted.
Prost
Clint Thessen
O'Fallon, MO
clinton.a.thessen@boeing.com
(Apprx 550 miles SSW of Jeff Renner)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:31:58 -0500
From: John_Simonetta@ittsheraton.com (John Simonetta)
Subject: slow starter
In Jan 13 HBD Bill Jankowski wrote about a slow starter.
Bill,
I started using liquid yeast about six months ago, when I had some
infections using dry yeast.
In my most recent batch, a barleywine, I used Wyeast 1056. Prior to
this batch I had been stepping up the yeast starter once, on the
advice of my homebrew club members, and this did give me quicker
results and less lag.
With the 1056 in the barleywine, I happened to get the flu on brew
day, and managed to drag myself off the couch to repitch the yeast to
another starter. So, in effect I used three starters, adding the
results from the previous to the new wort for each starter.
On my new brewday, the yeast was at full krausen in my 1/2 gallon
growler. I pitched the yeast to the wort at about 8:00p.m. The next
morning, it was in full swing. This is the shortest lag time I've
ever had. As much of a pain as this sounds like it was, the end
result was what I had been looking for. The idea, I'm told, is to get
the yeast count to outnumber the bacterial nasties.
By the way, you can reuse the yeast a number of times by following the
instructions on yeast washing on the Wyeast web page. Sorry, I don't
have the address, but I'm sure a net search will get you there.
Sorry for the long response, but you happened to hit me at the right
time.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:53:15 -0500
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski@iname.com>
Subject: High Temps and Plastic Pipe (CPVC and PVC)
Just catching up. I have seen some discussion about using CPVC at high
temperatures. This is just a data point for information purposes. I have
been using plain PVC (not CPVC)in my brew pot many months. I won't go into
the reasons here but if anyone is interested they can email me.
Basically I have two or three 18" pieces of 1-1/2 inch PVC standing in my
brew pot during the entire boil (60+ min.). I have not noticed any
appreciable adverse effects. The pipes are taking on a slight curvature or
bend because they are not exactly vertical in the pot. The bending is
barely noticeable. I have, on occasion, removed one from the pot and tested
to see how soft or "bendy" it was. It seemed as hard as when at room
temperature but as I said, they are assuming a slight bend so there must be
some softening.
I must point out that the pipes are not subjected to any pressure from the
inside out. They are empty (except for air. The pressure is from the
wort pushing on the outside of the pipes.
As I said, just a data point for consideration.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
0 Degrees 30.21 Min North, 4 Degrees 05.11 Min. East of Jeff Renner
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:48:35 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Liquors - information
Ted McIrvine <McIrvine@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>2) Most commercial Scotches are blended from several distillery runs of
>Scotch. A single malt Scotch is an unblended Scotch whiskey, which is
>(like all Scotch whiskey) distilled from Scotch ale.
Well, not exactly. Most commercial Scotch whiskies are "blended Scotch,"
which is a blend of Scotch malt whiskies and neutral grain spirits, which
can be (and is) made from cheaper grains other than barley malt and
distilled at a higher proof, so it is flavorless. Jackson says that these
blended Scotches commonly contain about 40% malt whiskey. There are some
all malt whiskies that are not single malts - they are called vatted malts.
Scotch whiskey is not really made from Scotch ale as such - no hops are
used for the wort. Oddly enough, the distillers are not particularly fussy
about yeast and typically use dry yeast. Many Bourbon distillers are more
fussy and culture their own yeast.
>4) Rum is made from fermented sugar cane which is then distilled.
Again, not exactly. It is fermented from fermented molasses, which is a
byproduct of cane sugar refining. The rum industry grew out of the
possibility of making money from this byproduct. Do you remember your 11th
grade American history class and the rum/molasses/slave trade, the
triangular trade route and the Molasses Act?
Ahh, brewing, it ties into everything.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:03:05 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: malt diastatic power and Bourbon
The recent topic of liquor reminds me of something I recently discovered.
A typical Bourbon grain bill might be 70+% corn, 10-15% rye and/or wheat,
and 8-15% malted barley. It astounds me that as little as 8% malt
(example, Jack Daniel's, not a Bourbon but the point remains) can convert
92% unmalted grain. I don't know if distiller's malt is greatly different
from brewer's malt. I'm sure it is 6-row.
In making Bourbon (and Tennessee whiskey, it's sibling), the corn is
boiled, sometimes with the wheat and/or rye, sometimes these are added
later in the boil, then this is cooled and the malt is added to reach a
temperature of low 150sF for conversion. There is no sparging or
lautering; the grains are left in the wort for the fermentation. I don't
know if this has anything to do with the high conversion or not.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 9:11 -0600
From: "BJM (Manbeck, Brad J.)" <BJM@roisysinc.com>
Subject: Brew Pubs in Sarasota and Tampa
I am going to be in the Sarasota and Tampa Florida area in February. I am
looking for suggestions for brewpubs or microbrews to sample while there.
After another 5 inches of snow last night here in Minneapolis, Florida is
looking pretty good right about now.
Thanks in advance for the input. Private emails are welcomed.
Brad Manbeck
Burlap Shack Brewery
bjm@roisysinc.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:48:00 -0600
From: Vachom <MVachow@newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: starters
In HBD #2927 Bill asks for advice on building yeast starters. First, a 36
hour lag time is quite long and creates all of the same potential problems
as long lag times in fermentation of the beer you're actually going to brew.
Here's my advice: first, check the date stamped on the Wyeast and give the
smack pack a day for every month old to activate--give yourself 12 hours or
so extra as this formula isn't always perfect, and don't buy anything older
than 3 months if you have a choice. Second, let the smack pack expand
beyond an inch. I let mine swell until it feels like a properly inflated
beachball. Third, instead of building a quart starter right off, I
recommend building a two-step starter so that you end up with a quart
starter for a five gallon batch of ale. Let the activity on the first pint
slow before pitching the second pint. If you really plan ahead, you can
even 2 step the starter to a quart, let the yeast settle out, decant the DME
beer, then 8 hours or so before your brew, add a pint of new wort to the
starter to get it activated again. This last step, of course, is costly and
irksome in particular to all grain brewers who are otherwise happy they're
no longer spending the kind of money they spent when brewing exclusively
with extract. I follow this procedure only when I'm brewing something other
than my "house" beers. Fourth and last, you don't mention your aeration
procedures. After chilling I shake the gallon cider jug I use for 4 minutes
or so, then give it another shake or swirl every time I pass by for the rest
of the day's waking hours. Following this procedure, I typically get
activity within 3-5 hours, especially when I can get Wyeast less than a
month old.
Happy brewing,
Mike
New Orleans, LA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:02:43 -0500
From: "Mark Kirby" <mkirby@wfubmc.edu>
Subject: St. Pats Counterflow Chiller
THIS IS NOT ANOTHER SLAM ON ST. PATS!!!!! THIS POST IS REGARDING
OPINIONS ON A SPECIFIC PRODUCT!!
I am about to order a counterflow chiller from St. Pats but would like
some feedback from people who have the same chiller (or one similar)
as to how well they work...the one I'm looking at is the one that is
encased in PVC pipe. Their online catalog says it is great for systems
with 3/8" ball valves, which is what I use on my converted kegs. St.
Pats is the only vendor I have seen that carries this kind of chiller,
and I like the look of the design. Price doesn't seem too high either
(at least in my opinion), but it seems it would work slightly
different than the copper-in-hose type that every other vendor seems
to carry. Any satisfied customers out there? Is the efficiency similar
to the more traditional
style counterflow chillers? Do other vendors carry similarly styled
chillers?
Thanks,
Todd Kirby
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:00:07 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Diacetyl Rest
John Adsit <jadsit@jeffco.k12.co.us> wrote:
>I fermented in a refrigerator at about 46-48 degrees
>for two weeks, then racked to secondary and continued for 9 more days.
>It looked pretty quiet, and the color was wonderful, with a small rim of
>white foam. I placed the secondary in a crawl space at about 58-60
>degrees for the diacetyl rest. Last night, after 24 hours, I saw that
>fermentation had been reactivated significantly, a blip about every four
>seconds. This morning it has slowed to ten seconds.
>
>Is this all normal? What's next?
Yep, sounds normal. Three things might be happening. It might actually
not be fermenting but rather warming and expanding, which would be pushing
bubbles out. Second, as it warms, it can hold less CO2, which will come
out of solution - again more bubbles. Third, it is also likely (since it
still had a rim of foam), that there is a little extract left and the
warmer temperature has sped the rate of fermentation. That is fine. The
yeast will reduce the levels of diacetyl as it ferments.
I like to begin lagering while there is still a very little extract left to
keep the yeast going in the lagering for a little while. Of course, it's
going to take a while for that thermal mass to warm up to diacetyl rest
temperatures, and also then to drop. I suspect it's time to start dropping
the temperature for lagering. Since I don't typically do a diacetyl rest,
I go only 2F/day, but that will take an awful long time from your higher
temp. I think that a faster drop shouldn't hurt. I think the 2F/day may
be overcautious.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:17:59 -0500
From: Joe Rolfe <rolfe@sky.sky.com>
Subject: Yeast/sucrose, RE: Infection = low FG and Slow Starter and Pix of a big brew
Another data point for long term storage of yeast samples
under 10% sucrose:
two more yeast have come back from the dead
one from 1994, another from 1991 both are from Euro-breweries
on the bad side tho less than good luck with
WY2206, DeKoninick, Le Cheval Blanc, UniBrou(Maudite)
still have some time left for these before I chuck them...
Mark asked about "unwanted bugs" causing low fg:
Yes it can cause low finals, it depends what type
you have. Some wild strains can go quite low, usally
if the beer has really gotten that badly infected
(unintentionally that is) the flavor/aroma will
be pretty bad and it will climb right out of the bottle.
Wort spoilers usually wont cause major issues unless they
have had a real good head start on the yeast or your equipment
has not been sanitized. But they dont produce alot of extra
co2, if any(??)...
Beer spoilers like pediococci(spelling??) can produce gas and
lactic bacteria (anyone ?? - not sure but dont think these do
produce gas either - dont have my ref material here...)
Most big problems come from wild yeasts...I was fooling around
with a few strains for a few years trying to remove a step, adding
primings to the bottling tank, it worked ok for a few months but
the strains were not stable and co2 went over board.
Bill asked about Slow Starter
A half a gal for the smack pack is a little steep, there
is not a hell of a lot of volume in the pac. Try 500ml first.
Then take the 500ml to the 2000ml or 1/2gal. With the limited
build up on the last step it should go quite quickly and be ready to
pitch within a couple of days.
And I hear you on the dry yeast, I tried a dry yeast from Yeast Labs
(Euro Lager) in the last beer(first in 2 years) I brewed. Not all
that
bad. I think the state of the art in drying yeast has improved
dramatically.
Some one mentioned pictures:
About 12 members of two local clubs Bree Free or Die/Worts Processors
got together to brew last month on some moderate sized equipment
I have left over from commercial days. We did a (mostly) munich
double bockish type beer. (Thanx Jim, all but the triple decoc was
done).
Some pics are available at:
http://rexkp.ne.mediaone.net/buddybock/buddybock.html
Net out of the kettle was 75gal
Grain Bill about 180#
FG 1.084-8 (crappy hydrometer - but does it really matter)
Good Luck and Great Brewing
Joe Rolfe
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:23:54 -0600
From: "Kelly" <kgrigg@diamonddata.com>
Subject: RE: rec.crafts.brewing
This is not a web address, but, a newsgroup on USENET. I'm not familiar
with AOL, but, am reasonably sure they let you have limited access to the
newsgroups....and least the non-controversial ones. If you have a regular
connection to the Internet, you can use the newsreaders available on
Netscape or MS Explorer....but, I find it best to use a dedicated news
reader such as NewsExpress. There is another newsgroup I've found that is
good: alt.homebrewing. You can also reach the newsgroups and search them at
www.dejanews.com
You can find good newsreaders at www.nonags.com .
HTH,
Kelly
Original message:
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:51:21 EST
From: JPullum127@aol.com
Subject: rec.crafts.brewing
i have heard several times about this web site but cannot locate it. can
anyone share the correct address with me? thanks
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:33:45 -0500
From: David Whitman <dwhitman@rohmhaas.com>
Subject: H2 in Beer
Eric Fouch is worried about the effect of H2 in beer:
>Bill Wright shares an AP release regarding the popularity of hydrogen beer in
>Tokyo. The only problem I could foresee with this would be in the case of
>nitrogen blown stouts. Hydrogen is a nitrogen fixer, and you would tend to
>negate the benefits of N2 blown stouts. You also could damage heading
>proteins.
While any benefit of adding the hydrogen is lost on me, as a chemist I can
confidently say that the reactions Eric lists won't be a problem unless you
drink the beer from a VERY expensive mug. Neither N2 or proteins will react
with H2 at room temperature in the absence of a special catalyst (platinum,
palladium, etc).
You can buy dilute H2 in N2 blends ("forming gas") which have indefinite
shelf life. Forming gas is a lot safer to handle than pure hydrogen.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:41:08 PST
From: "Andrew Avis" <andrew_avis@hotmail.com>
Subject: No! Not another Pat's Post!
HBDers -
I would like to propose a toast. To the thread that wouldn't die! Now,
I'd like to propose a web site. There is an excellent site for
gardeners that lists mail order seed catalogues, and commentary from
customers, both positive and negative. It's at:
http://pbmfaq.dvol.com/list/
Wouldn't it be great if someone did the same for mail order homebrew
supply companies? That way, people could vent their spleen on a
permanent forum meant for that purpose, and the HBD could move onto
other things. I would take this on, but I'm presently engaged in other
web stuff. And on that topic, Alan McKay writes:
<As for putting up pictures of everyone, there is already a similar
project going on for patrons of the rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup.
Unfortunately I have the link to the page at home, so I can't look it up
right now. Andrew Avis is running it. >
The address is in my sig below. Since I already have something up and
running & a system for adding names, I would be happy to create a
similar page for HBD regulars, if there is demand for such a thing.
Regards,
Drew
- --
Drew Avis, Calgary, Alberta
Visit my "Cheap is Good 3-Tier All Grain Home Brewery":
http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/5543/
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:02:30 -0800
From: asmith@apollo.org (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: US Grown European hops
It's my general impression that the US-grown varieties have a stronger
flavour than the European-grown varieties. At least, this is my experience
with US Fuggles (bought from St.Pats, by the way, who made a couple of
mistakes in the order but corrected them promptly, so I have no complaints)
They have a rather harsh, obvious taste which is out of place in the bitter
& brown ale that I brewed using them. On the other hand, the Alpha Acid
content of 6% was about one-and-a-half times as much as I had expected, so
I will just use less hops next time. I haven't tried the Goldings. My
impression in general is that US hops in general are very "up-front" in
their flavour, but I would also guess that European hops wouldn't be very
successful for the high hopping rates of American IPAs, etc.
I now try and use UK grown hops for my British beers, although I have to
use pellets or plugs, where I would have preferred to use leaf hops. I
would like to add another question to this: I use US chocolate malt &
roasted barley for in my British ales, but I don't really get the taste I
want. Could this just be my supplier (I find it hard to believe that
US-made roasted barley could be very different to to the UK variety) or do
other people agree with this?
Thanks,
Andrew Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:22:09 -0500
From: "Ken Schramm" <schramk@wcresa.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Mazer Cup Reminder, Prize Update
Just a reminder that entries for the Mazer Cup Mead Competition will be
due:
Feb 1 - 20. Eight Categories, GREAT Prizes.
Additionally, Cindy Renfrow, Auhor of "A Sip Through Time, A Collection
of Old Brewing Recipes" has donated a copy of her book (maybe we can even
get her to sign it) to serve as an additional prize to the Best of Show
winner.
Info available at
http://hbd.org/mazercup
or contact Dan McConnell: danmcc@umich.edu
or Ken Schramm schramk@wcresa.k12.mi.us
Enter early and often.
Ken Schramm
The judging will be held at Jeff Renner's home,
0 miles from Jeff Renner.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:34:35 -0500
From: John Murphy <jbm@ll.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Diacetyl Rest
John Adsit (jadsit@jeffco.k12.co.us) writes about trying a diacetyl
rest on his pilsner:
>I placed the secondary in a crawl space at about 58-60
>degrees for the diacetyl rest. Last night, after 24 hours, I saw that
>fermentation had been reactivated significantly, a blip about every four
>seconds. This morning it has slowed to ten seconds.
>
I recently tried using a diacetyl rest on my CAP. There was some
activity in the airlock, but not as vigorous as you describe above.
I wasn't overly concerned, considering the rise in temp.
Unfortunately for me, I definitely smelled diacetyl at bottling.
Not sure, where I went wrong. I seem to recall reading something
in Miller's book about the possibility of creating more diacetyl
with a rest if not done properly.
Fix's article in Brewing Techniques is a good read on this subject at:
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.2/fix.html
Good luck.
John Murphy
jbm@ll.mit.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:41:38 -0500
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson@longisland.com>
Subject: Decoction Main Mash Temp. Schedules
Hi all :
Paul Smith recently asked about main mash temperatures while decocting.
George De Piro gave an answer that I feel created a false impression.
George seemed to imply that you had to skip the 138-140F protein/ beta and
instead rest at 155-158f if you wanted a dextrinous wort while decocting. I
don't agree that this has to be the case if you are willing to forgo the
idea of the decoction mash being a heat source for the main mash
What I am about to describe has been stated by others but I feel it should
be re-emphasized. What George was describing holds true primarily if you
are using the decoction both as a temperature control as well as a Maillard
"reactor". My preferred procedure for a single decoction is to treat the
main mash as a normal step infusion and the decoction as a totally separate
process and do independent temperature control. To this end I do the
following.
1) Mash in thick ( 1 to 1.1 qts per lb).This allows later main mash temp.
adjustments by infusion.
2) Use infusions or heat additions to put the main mash through whatever
temperature schedule you want to perform up to the time/temp point for
pulling the decoction.
3) Pull the desired decoction fraction using a strainer and then take just
enough mash liquid to "fill in the voids" in the decoction pot. Actually if
your main mash is still at 1 to 1.1 qts per lb ( heated main mash) you can
just stir and pull the desired fraction as this is about the right
"wetness" for the decoction pot.
4) Heat the decoction on your brewing burner to 155-158F and rest for about
20 min. During this time take a few gallons of your brew water and start
heating it to boiling on your kitchen stove. This will be used to infuse
the main mash up to your sugar/alpha rest temperature at the desired
time.(You could have also done this water heating during any main mash rest
prior to pulling the decoction)
5) Bring the decoction to boiling. I boil 30 to 40 min. During this time
use the boiling water from the kitchen to infuse the main mash up to the
desired target temperature-time schedule you want to use.
6) At the end of the decoction, take COLD brewing water and LOWER the
decoction temperature to the same temperature as the main mash. Mix the
decoction into the main mash and let rest till conversion.
The key element here is to not think of using the decoction for ANY
temperature control. Think of the decoction as a separate process and
continue the main mash on its normal step infusion program. This
"uncouples" the two mashes in terms of time and temperature ( with the
exception that the main mash will have a longer "alpha rest" than the
decocted addition and this must be accounted for in your desired profile).
This method allows an infinitely variable schedule at the cost of a small
extra amount of energy. The main difference is in steps 4-6 where once the
decoction is pulled, the main mash and the decoction can be heated on any
schedules you want since they will be mixed at the same temperature.
Hope this helps those who have been thinking about decoction but afraid to
try. DO IT!! It is just plain fun and develops good scheduling skills. Its
no more difficult than cooking a multi-dish main dinner and timing
everything to come out at the same time.
Jim Bentson
Centerport NY
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:14:17 -0500
From: Jean-Sebastien Morisset <jsmoriss@axess.com>
Subject: "Homebrewery Design Pages" Updated.
Just thought I'd let everyone know that I've added 3 new entries to the
"Homebrewery Design Pages" in the last two days. This brings the total
to 28 Homebreweries on the Internet!
The latest Homebreweries are:
Drew Avis' "Cheap is Good" 40-Litre 3-Tier SuperBrewery.
Lee's Brewery.
Ken Schwartz's 5 Gallon Plastic Electric Brewery.
The URL for the "Homebrewery Design Pages" is:
<http://www.axess.com/users/jsm-mv/brasseurs-mv/homebreweries.html>
Later!
js.
- --
Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sr. UNIX Admin <mailto:jsmoriss@axess.com>
Personal Homepage <http://www.axess.com/users/jsm-mv/jsmoriss/>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:55:41 -0600
From: "Jay Krause" <krause@galis.com>
Subject: Pyramid Alehouse ESB
Greetings,
Does anyone have an extract/partial mash recipe for Pyramid Alehouse ESB? I
had a 6 pack this week and was very impressed. Anyone have any comments
about their other beers?
Thanks
Jay Krause
Keeper of "Jay's Beer Label of the Week"
http://members.tripod.com/~beerlable
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:27:18 -0500
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck@skantech.net>
Subject: RE: Brewer's Pics
My pic can be found at:
http://www.skantech.net/bsheck/bobsheck.htm
FWIW!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:04:36 -0500
From: Doug Moyer <shyzaboy@geocities.com>
Subject: Pump with Rubbermaid
Folks,
I want to buy a pump from Moving Brews (
http://movingbrews.com/index.shtml ) for recirculating during my mash. I
am currently using a 10 gal. Rubbermaid (circular) beverage cooler for a
mash tun. Most of the fittings they sell at Moving Brews are NPT, which
doesn't seem to be the right answer for a bulkhead-type fitting. Anyone
out there using a pump with a Rubbermaid/Gott cooler? What do you do? I
want to keep a 1/2" ID.
What do I do? Help!
Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA
Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2928, 01/15/99
*************************************
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