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HOMEBREW Digest #2839
HOMEBREW Digest #2839 Fri 02 October 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Re: Easy Keg ("C.D. Pritchard")
Excerpt (PAUL W HAAF JR)
Re:Belgium&holland (Mike Beatty)
Re: Reverse HERMS (RobertJ)
Re: HERMS with Gott Cooler (RobertJ)
Simple RIMS Setup (randy.pressley)
Simple RIMS Setup (randy.pressley)
Re: Munich malt (Jeff Renner)
An analogy (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
RE: Reverse HERMS? (LaBorde, Ronald)
Re: Is my beer going to kill me? ("John A. MacLaughlin")
real cheap almost glove box (mwmccaw)
Malt analysis and cloudy beer from munich malt ("silent bob")
re: Reverse HERMS? (Ronald Babcock)
Copper Stains ("A. J. deLange")
Adaptation (or not) of cooler mash tun (MarkETerry)
Adaptation (or not) of cooler mash tun (MarkETerry)
Herms Thoughts (Cory Chadwell Page Navigation)
Thermometer Weights in Beer (Dan Listermann)
reply to: Is my beer going to kill me? HBD#2838 (Herbert Bresler)
Good ol' HBD (Tim Anderson)
The C word (kathy)
Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:19:57
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp@chattanooga.net>
Subject: Re: Easy Keg
>I was wondering what the easiest way to keg is? I don't want
>to get into a elaborate keg set up.
Plans for turning 3L pop bottles into kegs are at:
chattanooga.net/~cdp/3l_keg.htm
c.d. pritchard cdp@chattanooga.net
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 06:01:49 -0400
From: haafbrau1@juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR)
Subject: Excerpt
This is an exerpt from a post I sent AlK. Take it for what it's worth.
> my philosophy is "whatever makes the hobby (obsession) fun for an
individual is OK". >Of course in the HBD forum, to agree to disagree is
not always easy. Maybe it's the >beer. If you follow the MLD (mead
lover's digest), prolonged 'discussions' almost never >exist. Maybe it's
better that we're not all in the same room with a bunch of darts and
>pool cues laying around 8-) .
Don't get me wrong, I find the HBD to be a treasure trove of info and
personality. Some of us just a little more intense than others.
Paul Haaf haafbrau1atjunodotcom
___________________________________________________________________
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Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:40:44 +0000
From: Mike Beatty <mbeatty@ols.net>
Subject: Re:Belgium&holland
Tom-
I was in Brussels about 8 years ago (need to get back). While there, I
hit a bar called L'Hallucination - pretty sure it translates. Had three
GREAT beers - 1 Duvel, 1 something else, and 1 beer that had a picture
of Satan on it - very potent.
In addition to the beer, I sampled some of the gin - kicked butt over
what we normally get here - if you like gin, give it a try. You might
not want to mix w/the beers though; as I recall, that was a mistake...
;-)
Have fun!
Mike
- --
Mike Beatty
Intelligent Business Solutions
________________________________________________
Adopt a Collie! Check out: <http://www.collie.net/~pcc>
________________________________________________
Do you believe in Macintosh? <http://www.evangelist.macaddict.com/>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:50:30 -0400
From: RobertJ <pbsys@pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re: Reverse HERMS
Dave Houseman wrote:
It had occurred to me
that I could pump the wort through an unused immersion chiller suspended
in my HLT and heat it that way. But has been pointed out, the design is
critical so as not to raise the temperature of the wort moving through
the exchanger so much. So I'd been thinking about reversing the process
and just putting the immersion chiller into the Gott mash/lauter tun and
pumping the hot/boiling water through it to heat the mash. This would
seem to perhaps be gentler on the wort and more controllable. What do
the HERMS-knowledgeable folks think of this approach?
___
I've never tried this approach, but my first reaction is that you would not
get an efficient heat transfer due to the restrictions on flow of the mash.
Water in the HLT will move as one area (bottom) is heated and other (coil)
cooled. This problem could probably be eliminated by constant stirring or
the addition of a mixer.
The other problem I would see is the same I've noticed with ordinary copper
tubing used in a heat exchange/HLT system, poor heat transfer, which leads
to slow heating. The HERMS coil is more involved and considerably smaller
and is the reason we get the quick transfer at low recirculation temp.
It certainly would be a simple system to try and easily adapted by any brewer.
Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:50:32 -0400
From: RobertJ <pbsys@pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re: HERMS with Gott Cooler
In HBD 2838
Brad Plumber described a heat exchange system, mounting the HE in the boil
pot and using 2 Gott Coolers and a pump.
My first thought on this arrangement is that it's too complicated and time
consuming. You're using only one vessel to do your heating and spending a
lot of time moving liquids.
PBS HERMS was designed to speed up the brewing process for those brewers;
doing a two step mash, wanting to maintain the thickness of the mash,
looking for contolled heatingof the tun while not overheating the
recirculating wort.
If you don't need to/want to meet those criteria, keep it simple. You have
other options; single step infusion, 2 step infusion, or RIMS.
Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com Manufacturer of 3
Vessel Brew Systems, HERMS, SS Brew Kettles, SS hopbacks and the
MAXICHILLER (fastest CF chiller available)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 8:47:45 -0500
From: randy.pressley@SLKP.COM
Subject: Simple RIMS Setup
I read an article in Brewing Techniques about the benefits of RIMS. I
was
thinking about setting one up, but I don't want one (now) which is as
elaborate
as the one in the article. I was thinking about just connecting some
standard
tubing to my outflow ball valve on my sparge/mash tun(keg), then connecting
the
tube via an adapter of some sort to a pump which would pump the wort back
into
the sparge/mash tun. The outflow connection would also be just standard
tubing. The outflow tube would lay horizontally on top of the mash
underneath
about an inch or two of water. I would take manual temperature readings
and
manually control the heat. Any of you RIMS folks think this would work?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 8:47:45 -0500
From: randy.pressley@SLKP.COM
Subject: Simple RIMS Setup
I read an article in Brewing Techniques about the benefits of RIMS. I
was
thinking about setting one up, but I don't want one (now) which is as
elaborate
as the one in the article. I was thinking about just connecting some
standard
tubing to my outflow ball valve on my sparge/mash tun(keg), then connecting
the
tube via an adapter of some sort to a pump which would pump the wort back
into
the sparge/mash tun. The outflow connection would also be just standard
tubing. The outflow tube would lay horizontally on top of the mash
underneath
about an inch or two of water. I would take manual temperature readings
and
manually control the heat. Any of you RIMS folks think this would work?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:46:30 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Munich malt
"David Root" <droot@concentric.net> wrote:
>We (I) decided to brew an all Munich malt
>base and try 10 different yeasts. I will be brewing 15 gallons of brew.
>10 for the club, and 5 for myself. Can i do a one step mash @ 155 dF?
I've done it with 100% German Munich. I've also done infusion steps and
decoctions (for the flavor benefits). No problems, except that two of the
decoction batches suffered from sudden wet cardboard flavor (HSA from
overhandling of mash?) after several weeks on tap.
I recently reported on brewing a 100% Durst dark Munich malt (40EBC,
~16-20L) Dunkel. I mashed at 64-->60/68 schedule (bottom heat RIMS for
temp boosts), and it went well. I used this mash schedule because an AABG
member just returned from Germany and a tour of Beck's, which used that
schedule, he reported. I don't know for which style or with which malts,
but when I missed my original target of 67C, I figured, what the hell, and
went for it. I got a surprisingly high 30 p*g/p. It tasted wonderful when
I sampled it after the primary. At this point it had dropped from 1.056 to
1.020 and was bubbling very slowly. I am hoping it will drop to ~1.016
during lagering, after which I will dilute it 8% to my target OG 1.052.
I will report more fully on the results when it's finished. So far, I'm
very pleased with this malt. The beer is not a dark amber, like some
Dunkels, but it isn't Schwartzbier, either, about dark brown with red
highlights. Tastes rich and somewhat earthy (in a nice way), not sweet at
all. No roast malt flavors, either.
One tip, don't over bitter this, at least not if you're aiming for a German
Dunkel. Low-mid 20s is max, depending on gravity.
Please let us know the results of your trials with ten yeasts.
Jeff
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:47:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: An analogy
Q: What do the Monica Lewinsky scandal and the Clinitest Debate have in
common?
A: The majority of people are sick of them and wish they'd just go away.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"Graduate school is the snooze button on the alarm clock of life."
-Jim Squire
-Alan Meeker
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Dept. of Urology
(410) 614-4974
__________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:52:44 -0500
From: rlabor@lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Reverse HERMS?
> From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman@unisys.com>
>
> >So I'd been thinking about reversing the process
> >and just putting the immersion chiller into the Gott mash/lauter tun and
> >pumping the hot/boiling water through it to heat the mash. This would
> >seem to perhaps be gentler on the wort and more controllable. What do
> >the HERMS-knowledgeable
>
> That may be one of the best designs, provided you also include some method
> to stir the mash. I am using the coil in the HLT, and I just keep the
> temperature of the HL about 5 or so degrees above target mash temperature.
> There's no problem with over temperature of the wort. I used a 1/2 ID
> copper 25 foot coil in the HLT. Quarter inch may be too small. You need
> a good mash screen that allows adequate wort circulation in order to get
> the desired results.
>
> Ideally, I would like to try the coil in the mash tun approach using a
> stainless keg and a motorized stirrer.
>
> Ron
>
> Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor@lsumc.edu
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:01:38 -0400
From: "John A. MacLaughlin" <jam@clark.net>
Subject: Re: Is my beer going to kill me?
In HBD #2838 a post from Tim Burkhart <tburkhart@dridesign.com>
seems to express concern that the lead shot used to weight a broken
brewing thermometer may make his beer toxic. If Tim's thermometer
is much like mine the shot is largely sealed in plastic and even if
loose would not be very soluble in wort.
I think the news media have greatly exaggerated the toxicity of lead.
I recall that lead pipe was commonly used for supply lines in both
domestic and commercial plumbing in the United States from the intro-
duction of indoor plumbing about 100 years ago until the 1940's.
The use of lead pipe was discontinued not because of its toxicity but
because first galvanized steel pipe, and then the war, and then
plastic pipe made lead uneconomical.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:50:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: mwmccaw@ix.netcom.com
Subject: real cheap almost glove box
Back when I was in grad school in mycology, I did a lot of culturing, and
certainly couldn't afford a real glove box or laminar flow hood. I came
up with a very cheap substitute which worked very well. It is in essense
a smaller, portable version of the drop cloth tent idea Paul Niebergall
recently posted. It is best used in a room that is draft free (i.e.close
the windows and shut the ventilation/heating outlets in the room a couple
of hours before you start to work).
To wit: Obtain a medium sized, DEEP cardboard box (bigger than a liquor
case). The sturdier, the better. If it has a gap in the bottom, seal
that with a strip of duct tape, inside and out. Cut off the flaps or
tape them together to deepen the box (depth helps avoid stray air
currents carrying bacteria or spores to the working zone.)
Tape a piece of drop cloth over the opening, sealing the top and the sides
down to about 8" from the bottom. You can either leave a loose flap, or
cut the plastic off 8" from the bottom. If you leave a flap, you will
have to tape it up temporarily when in use.
Before use, spray the inside of the box down thoroughly with Lysol. Let
it sit for 10 minutes. Place your sterilized petri dishes, culture tubes,
whatever in the box during this time. Keep your alcohol burner or propane
torch outside the box, and move your lancet or loop into the box while red
hot. Move your hands and arms in and out of the box with slow, steady
movements - you are trying to not make wake vortexes.
For a brief session, you can put an alcohol burner in the box (fifteen
minutes after the spraydown), but in a long working session, it can char
the top of the box.
I made several of these over the years, and had excellent results. Keeping
petri plates upside down after they harden is good practice whether or not
you use a box.
Good luck!
Mike McCaw
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 07:55:14 PDT
From: "silent bob" <holdenmcneil@hotmail.com>
Subject: Malt analysis and cloudy beer from munich malt
Hello HBD'ers,
In response to the question about cloudy beer and Munich malt, I have
had the same experience. A protien rest is advised because specialty
malts are often made from lower quality barley. For exaple, most
american specialty grains are made from six row.
I would also like to know if anyone has compiled malt analyses for all
of the major maltsters who have products available in the US. For
example: Briess, Shreier, DWC, Franco Belges, Muntons, Weyerman, Pauls,
Great Western, Gambrinus, Beeston, Weisenheimer, Hugh Baird, etc. etc.
If not, I would like to take on the project, and would like to find a
brewing homepage that could be a home to the info.
Thanks, private E-mail ok.
Adam
Holdenmcneil@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 09:12:18 -0600
From: Ronald Babcock <rbabcock@rmii.com>
Subject: re: Reverse HERMS?
Dave Houseman asked in HBD# 2838 about using a heat exchange coil in his
Gott MLT.
The first thing I would like to point out is one of the reasons to
recirculate is to keep the temperature of the grain bed from varying to much.
Dave's idea is to put a heat exchanger in the grain bed and pump hot water
through the coil as needed to heat the mash in a Gott cooler. I think this
would work and provide him with a good source of heat and maybe the best
source of heat if he doesn't want to experiment with recirculation.
Stirring the grain by hand or using some sort of an electric mixer to stir
the grain would be another way to provide minimal temperature variance of
the grain bed.
I have also talked with Brad Plummer about building his system using a Gott
cooler and a converted keg boiling vessel with a heat exchanger in it. I
think this approach would be a better solution. I have suggested making the
HE removable in his case as the HE would add a lot more cleaning time to
the brew day if the HE was left in the boiling vessel.
Cheers, Ron
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:57:24 -0500
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Copper Stains
Gail asked about removing copper stains. Nitric acid goes after copper
like gangbusters but I don't think most of us want to meddle with that.
Household ammonia will eventually dissolve copper but it may take a
while. I think its worth pouring a half gallon or so of ammonia into the
carboy and rolling it around to see if the copper comes off in
reasonable time. Stronger (26 Be) ammonia is also good but the fumes can
be a problem so if using that, I'd do it outside.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:19:28 EDT
From: MarkETerry@aol.com
Subject: Adaptation (or not) of cooler mash tun
I'm in the process of building a mash tun from a Picnic Cooler, but I was
thinking that
I could avoid drilling it to install a ball valve. Would anuyone like to
comment on the
likely performance of this idea:
Construct standard copper manifold, but 'tee' off vertically, bend through
180 degrees
over side of tun. I would construct the pipe so that it would be possible to
place lid on mash tun during mash. This would obviously be removed during
sparge.
Are there any good reasons why this would not work? Would grain blockages
occur in tubing? Or would syphon effect be difficult to maintain?
Fire Extinguisher at the ready!
Brace yourselves for my first attempt at ASCII "art".
___________________
| ________________ | Copper Tube
| | | | /
+ marprene tubing
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| ______________________| |_ | | |
| |________________________| |---- Manifold | |
|___________________________| | |
Bottom of Mash Tun | |
| |
Mark Terry
Stourbridge, West Midlands - The Disneyland of beer according to Michael
Jackson!
UK
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:19:28 EDT
From: MarkETerry@aol.com
Subject: Adaptation (or not) of cooler mash tun
I'm in the process of building a mash tun from a Picnic Cooler, but I was
thinking that
I could avoid drilling it to install a ball valve. Would anuyone like to
comment on the
likely performance of this idea:
Construct standard copper manifold, but 'tee' off vertically, bend through
180 degrees
over side of tun. I would construct the pipe so that it would be possible to
place lid on mash tun during mash. This would obviously be removed during
sparge.
Are there any good reasons why this would not work? Would grain blockages
occur in tubing? Or would syphon effect be difficult to maintain?
Fire Extinguisher at the ready!
Brace yourselves for my first attempt at ASCII "art".
___________________
| ________________ | Copper Tube
| | | | /
+ marprene tubing
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| ______________________| |_ | | |
| |________________________| |---- Manifold | |
|___________________________| | |
Bottom of Mash Tun | |
| |
Mark Terry
Stourbridge, West Midlands - The Disneyland of beer according to Michael
Jackson!
UK
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 14:27:59 -0500
From: Cory Chadwell Page Navigation <chadwell@ssd.fsi.com>
Subject: Herms Thoughts
I've been following the thread on HERMS and it's sparked some interest as a
possible solution to some of the limitations my current setup has. I
currently have a fairly standard 3 tier grav fed system with two 1/2bbl
sanke's and one 1/4 bbl sanke. I'd like to modify this to make sort of a
HERMS-like setup. But rather than doing my heat exchange though counterflow
type chiller/heaters I want to place immersion heater in my mashtun (1/2 bbl)
and an immersion chiller in the boil kettle (1/2 bbl). I'd then use the
little kettle (1/4 bbl) just as a heating/cooling source. By boiling the
water in the small kettle and using a pump to push that through the immersion
coil in the mash tun I could evenly heat to the desired temps. Also by
filling the 1/4 bbl kettle with an ice bath and pumping that through an
immersion coil in the boil kettle I could efficently chill after my boil.
My two questions are as follows:
1. Will this type of heat transfer by effecient enough to quickly move though
my temp. steps during my mash. And will it effectively hold those temps (i
plan on controlling flow with a ball valve on the out end of the pump.)
2. Will I be able to find an affordable pump that will withstand boil temp
water.
Some possible advantages:
1. Sanitation! the only thing running though the hard to clean immersion coils
would be clear clean water and even that would never come in contact with the
sweet wort.
2. I could just dough in my mash with the amount of water I wanted to end with
and not worry if my mash was going to be to thin because I had to add 6
gallons to hit my target temp.
3. Direct heating my mash with out worring about scorching.
4. Much more efficient cooling with ice water than with oklahoma's hot
outta-the-tap water.
My digest access was down for about a week so I may have missed a suggestion
similar to this. If I have, mea culpa. Either way I'd like some input on
this from some of you heat exchange guru's before I go out and buy a pump for
this.
Thanks in advance
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Cory D. Chadwell FlightSafety International, SSD
Design Engineer 2700 N. Hemlock Circle /|
Navigation / Visual Broken Arrow, Oklahoma 74012 /c| -
chadwell@ssd.fsi.com (918) 259-5568 / | /|
- ---------------------------------------------------------<-----s---
FSI \ | \|
SSD \c| -
\|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:43:28 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707@compuserve.com>
Subject: Thermometer Weights in Beer
Tim Burkhart writes about breaking his floating thermometer while cooling
his brew.
I have done this several times myself. If the shot is attracted to a
magnet, they are steel and should do you no harm.
Dan Listermann dan@listermann.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:19:34 -0400
From: Herbert Bresler <bresler.7@osu.edu>
Subject: reply to: Is my beer going to kill me? HBD#2838
In HBD#2838 (Oct 1) Tim Burkhart asked "Is my beer going to kill me?"
Tim,
If indeed the pellets were lead, don't drink it! Lead is toxic to the
brain in small amounts and is cumulative over your lifetime (and that of
your friends and family who will drink the leaded brew). I know that it
will be painful to dump it, but the chances that you will be getting (and
giving) lead poisoning are reasonably good. Lead is more soluble in acid
solution and wort is acid. I think it's just not worth the risk. Yeast
may grow happily in lead contaminated wort, so don't rely on them as an
indicator of safety.
Maybe you got the wort promptly away from the lead pellets, but some lead
would have already been disslved in the solution (probably water or
glycerine) that has been inside the thermometer since it was manufactured.
For my tastes, any lead is too much lead. Be safe. Throw it out.
As for your equipment, I'd replace cheap parts (like hoses) and vinegar
soak everything else.
Then again, if the pellets were steel, there's no problem. It should be
easy to tell the difference. Lead is soft enough to cut with a pocket
knife, steel is not. If you don't have any left to test, try to ask the
manufacturer.
I like my beer "high test" but "unleaded."
Herb
___________________________________________________
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 Tim Burkhart wrote:
[snip] somehow my floating thermometer broke in my chilling wort!!!
[snip] I think those weights are lead shot, and I hope they weren't
suspended in
some sort of toxic solution.
I would guess that any harmful substance would have affected the
yeast (ie. heavy metals, toxic solutions) negatively?
Could someone please let me know if I should be concerned. TIA.
Tim Burkhart
Kansas City
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:02:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tim Anderson <timator@yahoo.com>
Subject: Good ol' HBD
I just read HBD for the first time in a few years. Great job, guys,
it's gotten even better. Love that signal/noise ratio.
Coupla comments from a coupla threads:
When I taste and smell grapefruit, it usually turns out to be Cascade
hops. Very common in Northwest beers, including my homebrew. To my
tastebuds, Saaz and Fuggles taste citrusy, but it's Cascade that
screams grapefruit. I've encountered a few small brewery bitters in
England that use Cascade in the finish. No, I didn't assume, I asked.
And no, I can't quote the names. I probably tried a couple of
hundred different beers there, and rather than take notes, I prefer to
have another pint of something I haven't tried yet.
Sorry, I can't resist. The Clinitest thread sounds like one those fun
threads that won't die. Never heard of Clinitest until just now.
Haven't even used my hydrometer for 7 or 8 years. I figure there are
two reasons for such a device, to know when ferment is finished, and
to make a good guess at alcohol content. For the former, I pitch a
lot of starter (1/2 gallon starter in 5 gallon batch) and aerate like
crazy so it gets a fast start, and bottle or keg when isn't bubbling
too much. Never had a glass grenade. For the latter, I drink 4 pints
and walk across the room. If I make it without assistance, it's
exactly 4.5% by volume, otherwise, it's 6.
tim
==
Please ignore the advertisement below. Thank you.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:55:15 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth@scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: The C word
Questions one hates to ask........
As an occasional mead maker, who has some difficulty knowing when the
fermentation is complete, would the sugars in honey be read accurately
by the Clinitest?
Ouch, OUCH!, stop hitting me, I'm sorry.. I'll never say the "C" word
again, I promise.....honest.....ouch
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #2839, 10/02/98
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