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HOMEBREW Digest #2828
HOMEBREW Digest #2828 Sat 19 September 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Re: Dunkelweizen (Al Korzonas)
Re: Sparge Water Temperature ("Brian Dixon")
Sparge Water Temperature (Jack Schmidling)
Cleaning with lye ("Wendy Steinkamp")
Christmas Ale (John Adsit)
Orange Lights and Skunking ("Tony Barnsley")
re: astringency in adjuncts ("Michel J. Brown")
Dave's small beer ("Michel J. Brown")
Clinitest (bob mccowan)
Re: High Tech question (Tom Lombardo)
Re: Seven Barrel Brewery (Tom Lombardo)
Sarcasm (Jeff Renner)
I second that emotion! ("Curt Speaker")
Sugar to honey and vice versa ("Chuck Olson")
Yeast beasties (haafbrau1)
Re: Dunkelweizen ("Eric Schoville")
Sticke Altbier (Matthew Arnold)
Kenny's plumbing problem / Alt hopping ("George De Piro")
Re: The Hopfarm (1 of 2) (Bob Devine)
lactic acid and those big ole starters (Peter.Perez)
[Announcement] New stuff at http://jrock.com/recipe_calc (root)
Re: Dunkelweizen ("Hubert Hanghofer")
(no subject) ("Frank E. Kalcic")
Not again! Altbier hops (michael w bardallis)
Weld-Free Keg Conversion (Rich and Susy)
Unibroue - Orange Light (Doug Kerfoot)
More about Unibroue and clear bottles (Aaron Marchand)
Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
Send your entries in for the Hoppiest Show On Earth yet?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:32:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: Re: Dunkelweizen
Jeff writes and was kind enough to Cc me:
> Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com> wrote:
>
>>Jeff writes:
>>>They are also bringing in
>>>Dunkelweizenmalz, that is, dark wheat malt, which should make it possible
>>>to make Dunkelweizenbier without any roasted malt, especially with the dark
>>>Munich, just like in Germany.
><snip>
>>it's
>>important to remember that very few Dunkelweizens in Germany have any
>>roasty character at all (I tasted a good dozen Dunkelweizens and only
>>one or two had a noticeable roasty character). Finally, the traditional
>>way to make a Dunkelweizen is not with dark wheat malt, but rather
>>pale wheat malt and Munich malt. Most Dunkelweizens really taste like
>>a cross between a Weizen and a Munchner Dunkel (traditionally made with
>>100% Munich malt).
>
>Several points here. I agree that a roast malt flavor is generally
>inappropriate in a Dunkelweizen, which is why I made the above post. I
>don't know what is "a traditional way to make Dunkelweizen." Warner says
>(p. 24) they are "made using dark barley or wheat malts, dark caramalts,
>color malts or colored beer." Perhaps Hubert Hanghofer can shed more light
>on this (I've cc'd him).
Yes... *now* they are made in a variety of ways... heck, I'll bet you
can find one that's made with a dollop of EBC900 syrup! I'm talking
about beers made from Munich and pale wheat malts. From my tasting, that's
how I feel the beers, that (in my opinion) were from the most traditional
breweries (like Augustiner), were made.
>But if, as you say, dark wheat malt is not traditional for this style, how
>else are you going to get an appropriate dark color (10-23L according to
>Warner) and avoid roasted malt, especially for the darker end of the range?
>Spencer Thomas posed this very question several years ago here. After
>all, with 70% of the grist bill a very pale wheat malt (1.8L according to
>Zymurgy's 1995 grain issue), even using dark German Munich malt (16L -
>again from Zymurgy) for the 30% balance is likely to yield only an amber
>color (a notoriously inaccurate but perhaps sufficient straight arithmetic
>average of degrees Lovibond for 1.5 lbs/5 gallons suggests 9L; I'd *guess*
>10-12L with kettle darkening). Regular Munich at 8L will obviously be that
>much lighter (5.5L by straight average). The use of sufficient caramalt
>would introduce what I consider too much of a caramel flavor.
Indeed... too much caramel flavour. In my opinion, the ones that are
above 13L or so generally were outliers (had roasty flavours, for example).
Many people think Munchner Dunkel and Dunkelweizen are *dark* beers...
on the order of a Pete's Wicked Ale. Most are not. Most are *amber*...
many Dunkelweizens are no darker than Bass Ale (10L). Ayinger Altbairisch
Dunkel is uncommonly dark and chocolatey for a Munchner Dunkel when you
compare it to Lowenbrau, Spaten, Augustiner, Hacker-Pschorr, Kloster
Andechs Andechser Dunkel, Paulaner...
My Munchner Dunkel (a dead ringer for Augustiner Dunkel) was panned at
the AHA Nationals second round this year for not having enough "chocolate
malt flavour." AAAAAARGH!!! Please remember why Dunkels were brown...
because Munich water was too alkaline to brew with paler malt until
they learned how to modify water chemistry.
>Since we agree that roasted malt is out, at least in any noticeable amount,
>then Dunkelweizenmalz seems to be the answer. What else would you use it
>for? As you say, using Munich malt (Dunkelmalz) is the traditional way to
>brew a Bavarian Dunkel, and it would seem that using a similarly colored
>wheat malt (8L) would be the way to brew the wheat counterpart,
>Dunkelweizen. Using just averages, dark wheat malt and regular Munich
>yields 12L, and dark wheat and dark Munich yields 15.6L. Add kettle
>darkening and now we're getting somewhere!
I suspect that it's a relatively new malt. I have contacts in a German
maltster (Weyermann) and I could ask how long dark wheat has been made.
Now just to find the email address... I used to correspond with them
via fax, but the last one was unanswered and I've seen an email address
for Weyermann a few months ago, and email is *so* much more convenient.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:40:36 -0700
From: "Brian Dixon" <mutex@proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Sparge Water Temperature
[snip]recommends using very hot sparge water to keep the grain in the
>lauter tun at the proper temperature. There is a problem with this idea.
>Pouring nearly boiling water onto the grain bed will cause localized
>heating at the top of the tun. This can lead to both excessive tannin
>and starch extraction from the grains. If you do not acidify your sparge
>water (and it has medium to high residual alkalinity) tannin extraction
>will be worse.
>
>My grain bed is always down around 158F (70C) by the end of the sparge.
>I'd rather have it there than too high. Starchy, astringent beer is not
>my goal.
When I first started all-grain brewing, the last runnings from my lauter-tun
were coming out at around 130 F. I have no idea what the mash temperature
was, but it couldn't have been much higher than that. My beer turned out
really fine. In fact, even though I now have an insulated system that keeps
the temps around 150 F or slightly below, I came to the conclusion that low
sparge temps don't hurt a thing. The only issue is the risk of a stuck
sparge. I nearly had a couple before I learned how to keep my sparge water
temperature up a little higher (around 170 F). My opinion is that you
should acidify the sparge water IF you have high residual alkalinity (as
George suggests), and don't use a temperature above 170 F. If you are still
losing too much heat in the lauter tun (and getting slow or stuck sparges),
then insulate the tun or change to using a Rubbermaid/Gott round cooler, or
start using rice or wheat hulls in the mash. I'm still using a
bucket/Phil's Phalse bottom combo, but have insulated with plastic bubble
insulation that looks like a silver space blanket. I've had my cooler for
quite awhile, but just haven't made the switch yet! Everyone tells me my
beer is as good as the microbrewery beer they are used too, so I'm sure
running a bit cool does not cause a quality issue.
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:10:50 -0700
From: Jack Schmidling <arf@mc.net>
Subject: Sparge Water Temperature
"George De Piro" <gdepiro@fcc.net>
"Jack recommends using very hot sparge water to keep the grain in the
lauter tun at the proper temperature. There is a problem with this idea.
Pouring nearly boiling water onto the grain bed will cause localized
heating at the top of the tun......
Very hot and nearly boiling are not quite the same thing. Just
because I bring the water to a boil does not mean it is boiling
or anywhere near that when it is sprinkled (not poured) onto the
(please note) one inch of water already on top of the grain bed.
Just think of an inch or more layer of water above the grain and
then ponder how a gentle sprinkled flow on top of that transfers
heat to the grain. Very inefficiently.
"My grain bed is always down around 158F (70C) by the end of the sparge.
Then, whatever you are doing is working properly but there are those
who would make the case that it should be higher but certainly not
lower. That is one of the reasons for a mashout. You get 20 degrees
to squander.
" It could be that his sparge water is not as hot as his post implied,
which could explain why he doesn't perceive problems with his
technique....
Not sure what I implied but that is only part of the issue as
mentioned above. Just so happens that my sparge tank is in the
loft and there is about 10 feet of coper tubing and a spray head
that loses a great deal of heat.
" It would be best to measure the temp of your sparge water as
it enters the tun....
It's a meaningless number unless you know how much heat is being
lost at the surface of the water. The only number that matters is
the temp of the mash. Measure at the top if you wish but I guarantee
you it will be nowhere near the sparge water temperature.
js
- --
Visit our WEB pages: http://user.mc.net/arf
ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:44:28 -0500
From: "Wendy Steinkamp" <EnW_Steinkamp@email.msn.com>
Subject: Cleaning with lye
Are there any problems associated with using lye (like the generic Drano in
a can) diluted in water as a cleaner for various things like carboys and
kegs?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:58:17 -0600
From: John Adsit <jadsit@jeffco.k12.co.us>
Subject: Christmas Ale
>
>
> I am interested in brewing a Christmas Ale. I recently read an
article in
> BYO in which the author indicates that he brews his Christmas brews in
> May (in order for all of the spice additions to mellow and blend). Is
it to
> late in the year to brew a Christmas type ale? If it's not to late,
then does
> anyone have a really, really good extract recipe to share (speciality
> grains ok)? If it is to late, does anyone have any recommendations
for a
> substitute (a recipe would again be appreciated)?
I made this later than this last year. It was just fine on Christmas,
although it was muchbetter later. In fact, I think I'll make an
all-grain variation this weekend, now that I think about it.
6.5# Alexander's Pale Malt Extract
1# Crystal Malt 80L
1/4# Chocolate Malt
2 Cups Brown sugar
1/2# Honey
1 oz Northern Brewers hops (Boil)
1 oz Cascade hops
1 tsp Cardomom
5 cinnamon sticks
1/4 C grated ginger
Peel from 2 oranges, grated
1 tsp. Irish Moss
1 pck. Wyeast #1056 American
11/4 Cup Light Dry Malt Extract (priming)
Procedure followed:
Steeped grains 30 minutes. Added LME, Brown sugar, brought back to
boil. Added 1 oz Northern Brewers hops. Started a "tea" on the side
with spices by boiling water, stopping boil, and letting spices steep
while wort boiled. (I thought boiling spices in the wort would make
them a bit astringent.) After 50 min. of boil, added 1 oz Cascade hops,
honey, Irish Moss, and tea (straining out spices). Cooled after 65
minutes.
- --
John Adsit
Boulder, Coloradp
jadsit@jeffco.k12.co.us
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:46:03 +0100
From: "Tony Barnsley" <tony@brewmaster.SPAMOFF.co.uk>
Subject: Orange Lights and Skunking
One comment I have on this is that if these are Sodium lights (Orange /
Yellow) then the costs involved in running and hardware are _much_ less than
for other type of lighting. Which is why we see them so much used for street
lighting. The Talisker distillery on the Isle of Skye uses them in the
whiskey store. I might put it to them that they could say they use them to
prevent the whiskey spoiling during storage, (hold on, Oh yeah they use
wooden barrels)
Sounds like a marketing scam to me
Wassail!
Tony Barnsley M.i.B (Mashing in Blackpool)
Remove what doesn't belong Add 'd emon' instead (No Space or Quotes)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:26:31 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade@spiritone.com>
Subject: re: astringency in adjuncts
>Why would astringency have anything to do with the amount of >adjunct
used?
Well, Al, *some* non-malt grains have a certain amount of dryness to
them that is perceived as astringency. Like Rye, or Oats. Good things
when used in the right proportions, but when overdone, can cause REAL
excessive dryness akin to astringency.
>
>Actually, oxidation can increase astringency because oxidized
>polyphenols have a different (more astringent) taste than unoxidised.
>
I do believe that you mean *reduced* ;^)
>
>I do believe you are mistaken to blame astringency on adjuncts.
>
Perhaps, perhaps not -- I made a perfectly good Oatmeal stout last
spring, and it had a 2.5#/gal grain bill, with 2# of the grist coming
from Quaker Oats. After aging a few weeks, it started to develop some
dryness I've not noticed in lesser amounts. Too, a friend made some
"Roggenbier" last year that was basically a Bavarian Pils with a *POUND*
of Rye added. It was so dry that it made my eyes water! My tongue felt
like it had been grabbed by someone with a towel. Both beers were good
when first conditioned, but within two weeks, developed an unpleasant
dryness. Batches made later with lesser quantities of Oats/Rye were
excellent, and remained so for the end of the last glass 8*)
Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR}
2222 miles due west of Jeff Renner
homemade@spiritone.com
http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
"In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind"
L. Pasteur
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 03:05:41 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade@spiritone.com>
Subject: Dave's small beer
> I normally operate at OG = 1.065 - 1.070 (would you call this a
>strong ale?
Naw, that's what *I* call SMALL beer ;^) Actually, when I brew my winter
solstice beer (OG 1.155~1.160), I can get a small beer of around
1.060~1.070 OG which looks and tastes like a dunkel.
Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR}
2222 miles due west of Jeff Renner
homemade@spiritone.com
http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
"In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind"
L. Pasteur
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:27:29 -0400
From: bob.mccowan@bmd.cpii.com (bob mccowan)
Subject: Clinitest
> 3. readings between 1/4% and 2% mean fermentation may or
> may not be complete... knowing which requires an understanding
> of the fermentability of your wort."
>
Doesn't the yeast make a difference as well? If I start two different
batches with the same wort, and use a strongly attenuating yeast in one
batch and a weakly attenuating yeast in the other, won't I end up with
different amount of residual sugar in the finished beers? If that is the
case, I should get different Clinitest analysis for the two beers, even
though both are finished.
bob.mccowan@bmd.cpii.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 06:24:23 -0500
From: toml@ednet.rvc.cc.il.us (Tom Lombardo)
Subject: Re: High Tech question
>MaltyDog@aol.com
writes:
>
>Subject: A High Tech Question
>
>Is their some way I can set up my e-mail program
>so that it filters out any entry in the Homebrew Digest
>that contains the word "Clinitest"?
>
>It would be very useful.
I find the Page Down key works nicely. :-)
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 06:21:20 -0500
From: toml@ednet.rvc.cc.il.us (Tom Lombardo)
Subject: Re: Seven Barrel Brewery
Jebbly@aol.com writes:
>I'm not sure where Hampton, NH is but, if you are near White River
>Junction
>(west side of the state on the border of VT), I recommend th Seven Barrel
>Brewery. This is one of two brewpubs that Greg Noonan has opened over the
>last decade. The other being the Vermont Pub and Brewery in Burlington,
>VT.
>Noonan is a true master of the craft. Even if you're not near it, NH
>being a
>small state, it is worth driving an hour out of your way for.
Actually, White River Junction is in Vermont. The Seven Barrel Brewery is
just across the state line in NH. If you're going to White River
Junction, tour the Catamount Brewery. It's a free tour, with lots of
tasting afterwards. They sell their beer by the case, with tax and
deposit included in the price (which as I recall was much better than the
store price.) Excellent brews!
Ask the tour guide for directions to the Seven Barrel Brewery (brewpub).
It's only about 10 minutes away. Bring a designated driver.
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:32:02 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Sarcasm
"George De Piro" <gdepiro@fcc.net> wrote:
>Jim Cave, and probably others, missed the sarcasm in my post about
>phosphates being banned
>in NY State.
"Sarchasm: the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient
who doesn't get it."
A winner from The Washington Post's "Style Invitational," which asked
readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding,
subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:06:55 EST
From: "Curt Speaker" <speaker@safety-1.safety.psu.edu>
Subject: I second that emotion!
I have to agree with Bill Coleman <MaltyDog@aol.com> and others when
they say that this Clinitest thread must die!
Brewers have been making fine quality beers for hundreds of years
with without the help of a urine glucose testing kit. Hell, I have
been making good beer for over 4 years and never considered using a
Clinitest. There is such a thing as applying too much technology to
what is a HOBBY. There are countless other ways to tell if your beer
is done fermenting. Please, lets move on to bigger and better
topics...I'd even settle for talking about FOOP at this point...
Curt
Curt Speaker
Biosafety Officer
Penn State University
Environmental Health and Safety
speaker@ehs.psu.edu
http://www.ehs.psu.edu
^...^
(O_O)
=(Y)=
"""
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:32:00 -0700
From: "Chuck Olson" <chuck_olson@h2o.enr.state.nc.us>
Subject: Sugar to honey and vice versa
I have been brewing for only a short while and I would like to
substitute some of the cane sugar that I have been liberally adding to
my wort with some honey or molasses. Is there any sort of conversion I
need to make? (say, 2 lbs. sugar to 3 lbs. honey) I'm not trying to
insult anyone's intelligence with what I think is a simple question, but
I can't seem to find an answer ANYWHERE.
- --
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Olson
NC DENR
Division of Water Quality
Aquatic Toxicology Unit
4401 Reedy Creek Road
Raleigh, NC 27607
phone: (919) 733-2136
fax: (919) 733-9959
e-mail: chuck_olson@h2o.enr.state.nc.us
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:30:18 -0400
From: haafbrau1@juno.com
Subject: Yeast beasties
A friend of mine (OK, brother-in-law) has gout, and although he enjoys my
homebrew, he usually shies away from it and drinks filtered store bought
instead. I was wondering if I let my ales sit in secondary and then
force carbonate, if that will significantly reduce the yeast count.
Usually I prime my kegs with dextrose right out of the primary. My
yeast-du-jeur is Nottingham, no flames about dry yeast , it suits my
needs well. Will this help, or is my private stock safe from extinction
anyway? Buying a micron filter is out of the question for several of
the usual reasons- time, money, space, extra hassle, etc... Private
e-mail is fine, or post if you think this info might help anybody else.
Paul Haaf
haafbrau1@juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: 18 Sep 98 07:29:57 -0700
From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Dunkelweizen
Jeff Renner wrote:
>But if, as you say, dark wheat malt is not traditional for this style, how
>else are you going to get an appropriate dark color (10-23L according to
>Warner) and avoid roasted malt, especially for the darker end of the range?
Jeff,
I have recently toured Erdinger Weissbrauerei, and I can assure you
that they use a significant portion of dark wheat malt in their Dunkelweizen,
which is definitely at the darker end of the range for the style. They also
use a special yeast which is a lot more subtle than others. I wish I could
have gotten a sample. I personally like this style of Dunkelweizen.
Oberdorfer also makes one that is similar.
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:29:06 GMT
From: marnold@ez-net.com (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Sticke Altbier
I too have been reading the Alt thread with great interest, especially now that
temperatures here in Northern Wisconsin are getting to Alt-brewing ranges!
even found a local source for Weyermann Dark Munich! Life is good.
I was considering brewing a Sticke Alt as my Christmas beer. Neither the BJCP
nor AHA has guidelines for it. I did find one source on the 'Net that suggested
the following: O.G.: 1.045-1.060, IBU: 40-60, Color: 11-19, possibly
dry-hopped.
Here's a proposed recipe. Comments?
Der sticke Holzfeller Altbier (Native Germans: is my German right? I only had
two years in high school. I intend it to say "The Secret Lumberjack" because my
standard Alt is called Der Holzfeller "The Lumberjack" a la Monty Python.)
10# Weyermann Dark Munich
1# Weyermann Melanoidin
4 oz Spalt--5.7% AAU (3 oz--60 minutes, .5 oz FWH, .5 oz dry hop)
#1338 European Ale
At 70% efficiency it gives me an O.G. of 1.056
Happy Alt brewing!
Matt
- -----
Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club
http://www.rackers.org info@rackers.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:31 -0800
From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro@berlex.com>
Subject: Kenny's plumbing problem / Alt hopping
Hi all,
Kenny describes a system that is similar to many RIM systems (he has
the outlet of the lauter tun going straight to the pump, which will
then move wort to either the top of the lauter tun or the kettle). He
is concerned about perturbing the grain bed with pressure changes when
switching from vorlauf to kettle filling.
I designed my 1/2 bbl system with a lauter grant to avoid the problem
Kenny envisions. The runoff from the lauter tun flows into the grant,
using only gravity and a ball valve to control the flow (cheap). A
pump then moves the wort from the grant to wherever (sometimes the
kitchen floor when I open the wrong valve...). The pump can be run at
top speed without fear of exerting unwanted forces on the grain bed.
This also negates the need for a relatively expensive pump speed
controller.
One could get a similar effect by replacing the lauter grant with
either a pump speed controller or a ball valve on the output side of
the centrifugal pump, but that would require relatively precise
jockeying of the controls to avoid unwanted pressure changes on the
grain bed. The lauter grant just seemed easier to me (I tried the
other ways first).
-----------------------------
Steve J. (and others) are pondering the dilemma of hopping an Altbier.
The high IBU's necessitate a large quantity of low-alpha hops so
there is often hop flavor "bleeding over" into the beer. I have had
this problem, too, even with a 90 minute hop boil.
I wonder if better results might be more easily achieved by using a
higher alpha hop, such as Perle. You would be using less hops,
therefore introducing less hop polyphenols, etc. It may not be
traditional, but it might work. For all we know the Altstadt brewers
are lying when they disclose their hop preferences :)
A really untraditional way of getting hop bitterness without the
flavor would be to use iso-alpha extract. That would be cheating in a
severe way. I wouldn't condone it, but that's just me.
Have fun!
George de Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:40:15 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bdevine@10fold.com>
Subject: Re: The Hopfarm (1 of 2)
Charles Rich writes an excellent trip report:
> "We're gonna check out a hop ranch in Yakima this weekend."
It is an excellent time to vacation in Eastern Washington.
For anyone else thinking of going, be sure to stop at the
only Hop museum in the world. Plus the grape harvest is
in full swing and the early varieties of apples are ready.
I highly recommend this area (I've been through at least 5 times).
> [After processing...] The bines and waste are ground
> and then spread back over the fields for the soil.
Hops require a lot of fertilizer and this is an efficient
way to recover it from one year's crop.
Bob Devine
(now living in dry Utah)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:43:27 -0400
From: Peter.Perez@smed.com
Subject: lactic acid and those big ole starters
I picked up some lactic acid to use in my brewing. Can someone tell me -
Should I add it to the mash water or the sparge water or both? And what
amount per gallon should I add? I am not interested in trying to modify my
water's profile to look like some other areas water profile, but I am
willing to use a few simple additives to improve the mash. Is there
anything else besides lactic acid that I should consider?
P.S. whoever those advocates of the big starters were?, THANK YOU! I
really stepped one up like 4 times to about 2/3 - 3/4 gallon, let ferment
out after the last step up, let it settle out, decanted off the spent wort
and added about 2 cups wort to the slurry the morning of brew day, pitched
that night and I have never seen anything like it. Lag time - what is
that? A thing of the past for me. My airlock sounded like a machine gun
in no time. didn't use an airlock on the starter either, just foil.
Stirred the starter up about 3 times a day (i have no oxygenator, thats
next), and I am fermenting cool - I expect great things.
Thanks again,
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:23:10 -0400 (EWT)
From: root <root@jrock.com>
Subject: [Announcement] New stuff at http://jrock.com/recipe_calc
Hello everyone,
It has been a while since I did this last so just to let everyone
know. I have made some major updates to my recipe calculator.
You can find it at
http://jrock.com/recipe_calc
All kinds of new stuff has been added and a new faster server.
My site now has access to a T1 line so transfer speed should be good.
Please take a look. In fact please add a recipe. I have some plans
for the future of this site and they will only work if you people
use the system and add recipes. I want to do some compairative
studys and other stuff the requires large numbers of data points.
The more recipes added the closer I get to doing it.
Please help me. I am not doing this to make money. I am doing it
for the hobby.
I am working on a home versions of the calculator now.
Joseph S. Sellinger
jss@jrock.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:07:17 +0100
From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <hhanghof@netbeer.co.at>
Subject: Re: Dunkelweizen
Jeff Renner wrote in HBD#2827:
> ... I agree that a roast malt flavor is generally
> inappropriate in a Dunkelweizen, which is why I made the above post. I
> don't know what is "a traditional way to make Dunkelweizen." Warner
> says (p. 24) they are "made using dark barley or wheat malts, dark
> caramalts, color malts or colored beer." Perhaps Hubert Hanghofer can
> shed more light on this (I've cc'd him).
...I feel honored and hope I can help with this:
According to my knowledge Warner is right ...and I must say
that most *industrial* dark beers (Dunkelweizens as well as Alts, BTW)
nowadays are not made in the sudhaus but in the lagering cellar by
blending pale standard suds with traces of color-beer prior to
bottling.
Color-beer is made according to Reinheitsgebot, using 60% pale-,
40%(!!) color-malts and high hopping rates, OG 16-20P, 8000 EBC. It's
sold fermented. Turn key blending stations are also supplied by the
color-beer brewers.
In Germany only malted barley is allowed for brewing lagers,
even special malts must be based on barley. But note that for ales like
wheat they may also use color-malt made from malted wheat (or
color-beer made from the same). Wheat has the advantage of being
huskless and therefore undesirable burnt flavors are avoided.
It's incredible how many distinct flavors they create with
different color-beers ...I'm sure even a BJCP master will have a
hard time to distinguish between traditional colored and "industrial
colored" beer!
Living in another part of the beerworld, I don't know what exactly you
mean with "roast malt flavors" but I can tell you that burnt flavors
- -- literally translated: "malt-bitterness" -- are off-flavors in dark
wheat. Smokey notes are sometimes to find and IMHO they eliminate the
last bit of wheat characteristics (perhaps intended to making the style
palatable for non-wheat drinkers and extend the market ...I don't
know).
But as it seems, my knowledge of this style is very limited because I
didn't know that there might be *traditional* ways to color
Dunkelweizens. IMHO this style has NO TRADITION. -- Where does
tradition start? In a certain region of the world or at a certain level
of history? Can anyone point me to the history of Dunkelweizen?
This style has been created during the wheat renaissance in this (the
20th) century. 100 years ago the Bavarian wheat style was almost dead,
nearly eliminated by the upcoming lagers. And before that depression,
WEISSBIER was the traditional -- the original wheat style. WEISS means
white and the term was choosen to make a distinction to BRAUNBIER --
the brown Bavarian lagers of that time.
So there should be no traditional way (and IMHO no reason, also) to
color a wheat and the creative challenge for us should be: Don't cover
the yeast characteristics (4VG and sometimes iso-amylacetat) with too
much specialty malt character!
Narziss gives the color range of 25-60 EBC for dark Hefeweizen. Even
using all dark base-malts (munich and dark wheat) you'll have trouble
with the lower limit. Moderate use of (huskless) color-malt and
caramunich should be necessary.
I target for the lower limit of 25 EBC with my grain bill. The recipe
has been brewed by other wheat fans and I've got positive feedback.
50% pale Wheat malt (4 EBC)
15% Pilsener malt (3.5 EBC)
30% Munich malt (21 EBC)
5% Caramunich (120 EBC)
add 0,7% color-malt (1300 EBC) 20-30 mins prior to mashout.
SRM = EBC /2 (1.97, to be more exact)
CHEERS &
sehr zum Wohle!
Hubert, opening another _WEISS_beer in Salzburg, Austria.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 16:00:33 -0700
From: "Frank E. Kalcic" <fkalcic@flash.net>
Subject: (no subject)
Fellow brewers-
Does anyone have any thoughts about the use of Hydrogen
Peroxide for sanitizing the filter pads for use in a plate filter??
I don't want to use Iodophor as I am concerned about not being
able to rinse the iodine flavor from the paper pads.
I' thinking about sanitizing the filter setup as follows:
1) The hoses and plate assembly in Iodophor
2) Hydrogen Peroxide on the filter pads
3) Run boiled/ cooled water through the pads to rinse out the
Hydrogen Peroxide
Any thoughts??
Frank E. Kalcic
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:13:22 -0400
From: dbgrowler@juno.com (michael w bardallis)
Subject: Not again! Altbier hops
Just have to chime in with Al on this one & reassure Mr. Steve Jackson. I
get similar results, ie some hop flavor & aroma despite only one (big)
kettle addition in the alt. Compares favorably to the descriptions given
by those who've been there, & the occasional Alt produced by our local
transplanted German microbrewer & beer geek, Tom. I have a low-grade
obsession with this style, so I've queried him at length on the subject.
Of course, every time I have some homebrewed alt on hand, it all gets
consumed by my wife ( it's always her fault) before I manage to take a
jug down to the brewery for my friend's expert opinion. I think judging
Alt is tough for many judges because published style guidelines may be
incorrect or misleading, and beers represented as 'alt' in this country
often are poor or inaccurate examples, added to the sad fact that many of
us have not been to Germany to check out the real McCoy. Anyway, sounds
to me like Steve's probably right on track, 'faults' and all.
Mike Bardallis
Allen Park, MI
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:28:51 -0400
From: Rich and Susy <cinnamon@erinet.com>
Subject: Weld-Free Keg Conversion
I'm making the leap to all-grain and doing the keg-to-brewpot
conversion. Being cheap, I'd really like to avoid paying a welder.
I've seen many references to weld-free conversions in the archives, and
most mention fiber washers, but none mention the kind of 'fiber' or
where to find it.
Please help as it's getting close to brewing season for me.
Thanks,
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:42:00 -0400
From: Doug Kerfoot <dkerfoot@macatawa.org>
Subject: Unibroue - Orange Light
George De Piro said:
> Dan says that he has heard that Unibroue is manufacturing their
new
> Pilsner under orange lights to protect it from skunking during its
> time in the brewery. It is packaged in clear bottles.
> If this is true, it is one of the most absurd things I have heard.
> What will happen to the beer once it leaves the brewery?
> It is more likely that they are using chemically reduced isoalpha
acid
> extract for hopping the beer. These extracts are light-proof.
They
> are also called "tetra hops" and a few other things. It is even
more
> likely that they want the beer to skunk so that it tastes more
like
> Molson, in which case they are using regular hops and allowing
> chemistry to take its course.
I can't speak to the orange light issue, but I can assure you that
Unibroue is no Molsen wanna be. Having had the opportunity to sample
large quanities of six of their beers while visiting Montreal, I can
tell you that they are truly a world class brewery. If you don't
believe me, one sip of "La Fin Du Monde" (the end of the world) will
change your mind. Also highly recommended is "Trois Pistoles." (you can
figure that one out)
I am surprised to hear that they are making a pilsner as their specialty
is Belgian styles. Yes Virginia, in Quebec you can get six-packs of
fresh, very authentic, Belgian style, bottle conditioned ales in nearly
all gas stations. Sometimes I still regret not moving there!
As for packaging, all of their six-packs are totally encased in a
cardboard box. I am telling you, this is not a brewery that puts
marketing or efficiency ahead of the quality of their beer.
So please, don't make sweeping nasty statements about breweries that you
do not know. Besides, if we are really honest, the last truly bad beer
that we drank was probably one that WE made!
You can find a link to Unibroue at my homepage:
http://www.macatawa.org/~dkerfoot/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:36:07 -0400
From: Aaron Marchand <bd690@sprint.ca>
Subject: More about Unibroue and clear bottles
I live in Montreal and I have not heard anything about the orange
light except on this forum. The reason for the clear bottles, as someone
already mentioned is money. The general consensus here seems to be that
Unibroue is thrying to edge in on Sleeman's market appeal. IE: If they
want pilsner in clear bottles, that's what we'll give 'em.
Just as a side note to this I've tried it and it doesn't taste much like
a pilsner. It' seems to taste more like Sleeman's Lager.... Hmmmm funny
that don't you think?
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2828, 09/19/98
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