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HOMEBREW Digest #2792
HOMEBREW Digest #2792 Sun 09 August 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Fizzy barleywine, Sulfite,Clinitest,Carrageenan ("David R. Burley")
transfering wort to the fermenter (Ryan Jay McCammon)
summary of sparge water acidification techniques (Jeff Pharr)
Wit's end; the female palate (Keith Busby)
re: oak in IPA ("phil grossblatt")
Infected Primary ("Buchanan, Robert")
RE: Help, low carbonation (Jeremy Price)
Propane BOOM; using oak; sulfites; wheat beer; oaky yeast; snapping necks (Samuel Mize)
Honey in beer (Rod Wellman)
Naked Pueblo Homebrew Comp (NA Campiglia)
cheap shots/yeast data (BPis4U2NV)
NaOH and Glass Carboys (Bob.Sutton)
Low-tech starter method (Nathan Kanous)
Overpitching (Al Korzonas)
holes in my fridge (Al Korzonas)
Wyeast 2007 (Al Korzonas)
Oak in brewing (feldman)
Historical Brewing Article for review (Badger Roullett)
Oak Casks and Flavor... (Badger Roullett)
Carbonating in a keg & CAP (help) (keith christiann)
Women and Beer (Badger Roullett)
Women and beer (Al Korzonas)
List of Dried Yeasts? (Badger Roullett)
Clinitest (Al Korzonas)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:37:59 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Fizzy barleywine, Sulfite,Clinitest,Carrageenan
Brewsters:
John Penn asks what to do with his non-fizzy barley wine. Before you
bottled it, you should have bottled it with an active kraeusening starter
which had some FAN from added malt extract, as I have recommended
in the past. Now I suggest you take a sample of yeast and start it
before you add it back to the barleywine. You may even wish to make
a small starter and gradually feed it a bottle of your wine to condition
it.
Also you can try the addition of yeast nutrients ( about 5-10% of
normal dosage) and/or a tablespoon of boiled malt extract.
An alternative procedure is to use an S. Bayanus yeast ( typically a
champagne yeast) which will be happy to ferment the remaining sugar
and carbonate the wine. I would start it in a small amount of 1.0200
malt extract and then be sure it will ferment in your barleywine by
adding a bottle. This can be used to be added to each bottle from
which a small amount of wine has been removed.
- -------------------------------
Alan Keith Meeker makes a fine presentation on the sensitivity of some
persons to excessive sulfites. I know only too well that excessive
sulfite can be dangerous to some people, as I remember my asthmatic
daughter developed severe breathing problems as a young
woman after eating at a sulfite treated salad bar.
However, my point was, I know of no problems with the low levels
of sulfites in commercial wines. Interestingly most people complain
of these headaches with red wine but can drink white wine just fine.
When bottled, white wine often contains 3 or 4 times as much
sulfite as red wine. I suspect "red wine gives me a headache" is
part of the food additive hysteria that has been fomented in this country
by the "health" industry, saying don't try their additive - try mine!
- ----------------------------------------------
Joe Rolfe says:
"Granted I never used Clinitest, and it would be a nice extra data point
to stack next to the fast ferment data I had."
Enough said. I can guarantee that if you ran a Clinitest you would
realize it only takes 5 DROPS of beer to run and is finished in 1 minute
and measures EXACTLY what you want to know "Is the beer done yet?"
independently of any other measurement. No muss, no fuss and
no doubt.
A forced fermentation or even a simple hydrometer measurement
requires 100 ml or more of beer each time you measure it. AND you
are not measuring what you want to know, since you need at least
three measurements in a row to know "for sure". This method can
require up to 500 mls of beer or perhaps even more if you have a
slow ferment. Not much on a commercial scale, but a lot to a
homebrewer. With Barleywine, this represents an even bigger
percentage, since it is often slow to finish.
Your description of all of the many parameters you have measured on
over three hundred batches exhausts me just reading it. I admire
your stamina, but the majority of that work was not necessary IMHO.
The point is you do not need to know "how low will it go?" for each
individual yeast and mash and then admit that the fast ferment goes
lower than main batch, anyway. Clinitest is definitive about the
endpoint of the fermentation in each batch, regardless.
Clinitest KIts cost less than $20 at your Pharmacy, last I looked, and is
good for 30 or so tests and a set of 100 tablets ( one for each test)
is only a few dollars. This is a heck of a lot less than a breakable
$80, more accurate hydrometer ( which still doesn't measure
what you want to know and requires a lot more beer).
Please try the Clinitest and then give us your opinion.
- -----------------------------
Many (15 to 20?) years ago I experimented with SeaGel ( I think) from
FMC and a number of the other carrageenans they offered for making
candies and other foods gelled. I always ended up with cloudy beer.
Since I didn't have any guidelines on how much to use it may have
been excessive, I don't know. But I know there were different
molecular weights available, probably a by-product of the extraction
process. I think one of the advantages of the Irish Moss, perhaps is
the higher molecular weight Carrageenan stays in the moss particles
and clears the wort by settling quickly.
- ------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:50:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ryan Jay McCammon <mccammon@umich.edu>
Subject: transfering wort to the fermenter
Greetings. I have been lurking for a couple of months now and have
learned a great deal. I brewed my second batch ever last night, and hope
that it will be significantly better than the first, which has a strong
metallic odor and taste (I'd be happy to give it to any of you Ann
Arborites for diagnosis as it would help me learn some things and get rid
of the lousy stuff). I think last night's batch will be better primarily
because of the use of my new homemade immersion chiller and b/c I used
liquid yeast stepped up twice in a starter culture.
I all (both) of my batches, I had a fair bit of difficulty transfering the
wort from the boiling pot to the fermenter because of the residual from
the hop pellets. The first time, I just tossed the pellets into the wort,
and when it came time to transfer, they immediately clogged the filter on
my funnel (which I think is way too fine anyway). So this time, I put the
pellets in a nylon 'hop boiling bag' that the homebrew shop sold me -
apparently this is for whole hops, as by the end of the boil the bag was
empty and there was a fine green sediment in the wort. I started out
racking from the pot to the funnel (stuck in the mouth of the carboy) with
a choreboy pad around the end of the cane and the filtering screen in the
funnel. The siphon was very slow, and the screen in the funnel
immediately clogged, so I decided just to siphon directly into the carboy
w/o the funnel, hoping that the hops and any break material would settle
out in the fermenter. Will they? How do I get the wort into the
fermenter while leaving the hops and so on behind?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:14:14 -0400
From: Jeff Pharr <pharr@metsci.com>
Subject: summary of sparge water acidification techniques
In HBD #2788 I asked what additives others were using to drop the pH of
their sparge water to the required 5.5 to 6.5 range. I received no
fewer than 14 responses so I thought I would take a minute to summarize:
Most folks pointed out that my attempt to use gypsum to reduce the mash
pH was doomed from the start. It works in the mash because it is able
to free H+ ions into solution thereby reducing the pH. The raw
materials for the H+ producing chemical reaction are not available in
the sparge water so the gypsum additions don't do much more than make
the water cloudy.
To achieve the needed drop in pH another form of acid must be added.
The following is a list, in order of popularity, of the acids used by
the responding brewers:
lactic
phosphoric
citric
malic
tartaric
winemaker's acid blend (probably a combination of several of the above)
The most unique suggestion was to start with RO or distilled water and
use DME at the rate of about 1 tablespoon per gallon.
Tangible benefits of sparge water acidification were claimed by only
about half of the respondents. It was noted that using overly basic
sparge water can result in leeching astringent compounds from the mash.
There was also a warning that over-acidification of the mash can result
in reduced hot-break formation.
No one offered me reduced prices on bulk purchases of gypsum.
Thanks to all who responded! I will be brewing this weekend and trying
one of your suggestions.
- --Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 09:35:09 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby@ou.edu>
Subject: Wit's end; the female palate
Paul is confusing different styles of wheat beers. The Blue Moon
approximates to the Belgian Wit and ought to taste slightly tart and have
an aroma of curacao peel and coriander, added late. The cloves and bananas
he is looking for are characteristic of German Weizens or Hefeweizens (and
come from the Weihenstephan yeast). American wheats may have none of those
characteristics. Hoegaarden suggest you pour most of the beer, then shake
up the remaining inch or so and than add that; Germans usually ask if you
want it "mit Hefe" or "ohne Hefe", but the sediment is to my taste part of
the mouth-feel of a Hefeweizen. Surely he can find Celis or Hoegaarden in
sophisticated New England. Even we Okies can get the latter (Celis in Texas
does not regard neighbouring Oklahoma as sufficiently sophisticated to be
worth exporting to).
I more or less agree with Monica about there being no apparent reason why
women should not like beer. My wife loves it, and I have always thought
that women who said "I don't like beer" just needed to be educated (just
like I thought I didn't like cheese before I went to France). On the other
hand (and as we scholars say, I don't have the reference to hand), I read
somewhere recently that there was some evidence to suggest that the female
palate sometimes responded differently to the male.
Keith Busby
Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
University of Oklahoma
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel.: (405) 325-5088
Fax: (405) 325-0103
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:05:36 -0600
From: "phil grossblatt" <philgro@swcp.com>
Subject: re: oak in IPA
Al K wrote:
> they used European oak as opposed to American oak (which is far more
> "oaky") to make the casks... there are a number of old English brewing books
> that specifically say to NOT use American Oak for casks because it *imparts
> a flavour* to the beer,
>From what I've read,and my own knowledge of oak in wine making,I
believe you might have meant to say "English oak" not "European
oak". French ,Hungarian and many other oaks from "Europe" are
definitely very "oaky",although American oak is often considered
more assertive.The preparation of the wood itself is as significant
as the origin.
A BT article suggests that British casks were made from harder
oak,which would impart less flavor.
I believe your point about lining casks with pitch makes the above
moot anyway...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:05:02 -0400
From: "Buchanan, Robert" <RBuchanan@ChristianaCare.org>
Subject: Infected Primary
Kris Jacobs posts in HBD#2788 about his snotty,slimy batch. Me thinks thou
hast discovered that nasty botulism organism. (humor) ;-) Sorry to hear it
Kris.
Please let's not start that silly botulism thread again.
Bob Buchanan
"There are TWO rules for success in Life:
Rule 1: Don't tell people everything you know."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:32:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeremy Price <pricejy@email.uc.edu>
Subject: RE: Help, low carbonation
>John Penn asks about carbonation problems with high gravity Barley wines
I have found that in order to get proper carbonation with extremely high
gravity beers is to add fresh yeast along with corn sugar at botteling
time. I make a about a 1/2 quart starter with the same yeast as I used for
the primary fermentation, allow the starter to reach high krausen, and
pitch along with 2/3 cup corn sugar (boiled of course.)
Jeremy Price
p.s. On an unrelated note, would people start calling wyeast by their
names! They do have Names! I have no Idea what wyeast # 2260 is without
searching for a used wyeast pouch.
thanks,
#2250124 (oh, I mean Jeremy)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:22:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize@mail.imagin.net>
Subject: Propane BOOM; using oak; sulfites; wheat beer; oaky yeast; snapping necks
On the radio news today, a house in Fort Worth TX was levelled and six
people injured by a propane explosion (maybe natural gas, they said both).
Not a reason to avoid using such gases, every form of energy has risks.
But you Cajun Cooker folks, let's be careful out there.
- - - - - - - - - -
Alan Meeker asked about using oak.
In 1997, Dave Burley suggested "around 4 ounces/5 gallons for a subtle
taste in one of your big hoppy nosed IPA's." Al K said that "4 ounces of
American oak chips in 5 gallons of beer is going to give you a *lot* of
oak flavour." Mark Bayer said that with 2 ounces of american oak chips in
5 gallons for a 2-week secondary, "the final product tasted like plywood
that had had a little beer spilled on it." Have fun messing with it. If
you overshoot, you can always make an un-oaked batch and blend.
Dave says to sterilize (yep) the chips, perferably to "pressure cook for
10 minutes at 15 lbs," failing that "boil for 20 minutes in water and use
the water as well as the chips," since some flavoring agents boil out.
- - - - - - - - - -
Alan Meeker wrote about sulfites, quoting Dave Burley:
>>As far as "natural" goes, remember that some wine yeast make sulfite.
>>Sulfite in the form of sulfur candles has been used in making wine
>>for more than two millenia by Greek, Roman and French vintners.
>
>The Romans also used to put lead into their wine...
Not intentionally...
You kind of dodged his point. Sulfite is as "all-natural" as salt. That
doesn't make it safe, just natural. Some people care.
>>I see people are often concerned by the "contains sulfites" label on wine
>>bottles from France. I think this marketing ploy ... by nitrogen-using,
>>large US vintners has gone far enough.
...
>I don't think this is just a marketing ploy.
I don't either -- it's not JUST marketing.
However, it would be refreshing to see companies refusing to pander to
irrational fears just to make a buck. You're sure A-B doesn't make wine?
[ :-) smiley, joke, just opinion, don't sue, why SURE old beer is skunky ]
Some people think things are dangerous if processed, and safe if "natural"
- -- you know, like curare, blowfish toxin, or uncooked tapioca...
These rubes fear sulfites, whether or not they're sensitive to them.
Just yesterday I saw a web page saying that pasteurized milk has been
"killed" and so has no real value -- only "living" food is nutritious --
AND it's on the WEB, so it MUST be TRUE...
Really though, it IS critical for a person who's sensitive to a chemical
(or a plant) to know if the problem item is in their food. My wife is
allergic to (all-natural) mesquite. I always carry antihistamines just in
case she forgot hers, because a lot of restaurants in Texas use mesquite
for flavoring without telling you.
>There are a whole class of verified sensitivities to food additives ...
>with catchy names ... (the names are uncharacteristicly humorous ... in
>respected journals such as Lancet...)
They're just poking a little fun... with a lancet... never mind...
Getting back to home brewing:
Dick's first description of making perry said that you don't even need to
add yeast. Later, when he thought Dave had suggested a killing dose of
sulfite, he said:
>If you do sulfite the juice, you need to wait about a
>day and then inoculate it with a yeast starter, since the sulfite is
>pretty good at killing off the natural yeast you might otherwise use.
This hardly says (to me) that the naturally-occurring yeast are better,
just that they'll be dead (perhaps not true, at the dosage Dave suggested).
- - - - - - - - - -
Paul Ward <paulw@doc.state.vt.us> says:
> I'm not even sure which type of knife it is socially acceptable to eat
> my peas with.
Use that short flat one. The butter helps stop them rolling off.
And goes on about wheat beers:
> Sam Adams, Pete's, Long Trail, Breckenridge ... I have
> NEVER noticed any bananas or cloves in any of them, although I've
> looked for those flavors.
I believe those are "American wheat" beers. They WON'T have the flavors
that comes in German-style weizen beers. They're very different, the
American style is mostly defined by what it doesn't have.
And another thing, why do we stick "American" onto a style when we mean
"lame?" Not all American styles are lame. American-style Barleywine,
American Brown Ale, American Pale Ale, these are great, American-created
styles. But American Lager and American-Style Wheat are just lame
versions of the original, flavorful styles. Read the style guides: any
flavor or aroma is a fault. "Malt sweetness is absent. ... Hop aroma is
absent. Hop bitterness is slight, and hop flavor is mild or negligible."
Everclear in water nails it. American Wheat is allowed a touch of fruity
esters "at low levels," whoopee, "however, phenolic, clovelike
characteristics should not be perceived."
These are categories for mega-brewed lite swill. Well, other countries
mega-brew lite swill too, and I'm tired of hearing it called "American"
just because we have efficient industrial production and distribution.
Mega-brewers want one centrally-produced, centrally-mandated beer for all.
This isn't an American ideal, it's socialist. The French aren't known for
great beer, they're a WINE country, and they're pretty socialist. Let's
call them FRENCH Lager and FRENCH Wheat. Write your Congressman. I'm
sure that Michael Jackson, being English, will approve.
>After all this, my question is - "was I supposed to shake the yeast
>back into suspension, or decant off the yeast in the bottom of the
>bottle?"
Yes. People do both. Try it both ways and see what you like.
- - - - - - - - - -
Al describes getting oak character from yeast, and says:
> ... I have tasted Jim Liddil's excellent
> AHA National Competition Best of Show pGueuze and it had an oaky aroma,
> despite being fermented in *plastic*.
Al or Jim, have you identified which organism threw that aroma? Any
special handling to emphasize it? (No data in 1997-98 HBDs.)
Alan asked about using oak because he likes it in wine, and Al responded
with 58 lines about how IPAs don't require oak. I guess Alan did ask for
"any advice and any experiences [we]'d care to relate." Glad you got that
off your chest, Al.
- - - - - - - - - -
Frederick J. Wills says:
> Let's try and put this brewing myth (my opinion) to rest for once. ...
> Has anyone ever had a carboy neck snap off on them?
You mean anyone still living? :-) Mostly they slip, either being poorly
seated or made for a different-size carboy. I expect you're right about
the neck snapping, nobody holds a full carboy out horizontal by the neck.
(This is NOT a dare. You over there, put that down.)
Best,
Sam Mize
- --
Samuel Mize -- smize@imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 11:57:31 -0500
From: Rod Wellman <rmw@williams.com>
Subject: Honey in beer
Greetings!
A homebrewer for almost 2 years now, I just recently joined the list.
Already I can tell this will be a great learning tool! I work for an
advertising agency which handles materials for one of the large honey
producers. I was excited when I was assigned the task of writing a section
for their web site which discusses the use of honey in beer...from large
scale national brews, to microbrews, to homebrews. It will be an
educational section simply to inform people of the fact that honey is used
in various beers. I have been looking for information regarding the
history of honey in beer and also things like what characteristics honey
adds to a wheat beer, an ale, a porter (other styles, too), how much is
generally used, what types of honey are used and why...etc. (I'm not at
this point going to include much on mead, as that will probably be
addressed on its own in the future). Has anyone on this list contributed
such information before (which they could re-post, or send to me directly)?
I also plan on contacting some brewmasters at microbreweries,
brew-pubs...maybe even at Michelob, to glean some information from them.
Also, maybe some information exists in the form of a magazine article in
BYO or Zymurgy...or in various books on brewing. I am looking into all of
these things, but any shortcuts that can be provided from this list will be
greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
BTW: I just brewed a Honey Porter in March that, IMHO turned out fabulous.
If anyone wants the recipe (extract) I'd be happy to provide it. It has a
subtle, yet pronounced honey flavor, and has a good hop balance and
excellent body.
Rod Wellman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 11:56:31 -0500
From: NA Campiglia <spitdrvr@camalott.com>
Subject: Naked Pueblo Homebrew Comp
Anyone have any info on this competition???
Please let me know, Id like to enter
NA Campiglia III
Abilene, TX
http://camalott.com/~spitdrvr
'67 MkIII, '74 1500, '76 1500
Triumphs and Homebrew, what else could you want?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:20:35 EDT
From: BPis4U2NV@aol.com
Subject: cheap shots/yeast data
'(Even Fouch could figure it out)"???!?
HEY!
No fair taking cheap shots at a guy while he's on vacation!
Cease and desist! And after I figure out what Druey was talking about, I'll
respond in full.....
Any way, on to the body of my post:
A data point to add to Goerge DP's comments on yeast attenuation....
I did a little quick and dirty experiment- I brewed an ESB type 5 gallon batch
from all grain, and hopped it with 2 ounces NB (1 oz. bittering, 1 oz. flavor)
and split it into five different gallon jugs. each was innoculated with a
different yeast strain, the five I use most often. flavor comments will
follow, as the beers are only about a week in the bottle, but an observation
on the attenuation: All but one yeast finished at the same gravity.
OG 1.050
Yeast FG
Widmere Hefe. yeast 1.015
(A German Alt)
Bell's Amber Strain 1.020
Belgian Strong Ale 1.015
Belgian Trappist 1.015
Belgian Wheat 1.015
All were fermented in the same Son-of-a-Fermentation box at the same temp.
I'll post a follow up when I have done some tasting, and have my beer notes in
hand.
(Kyle- I can explain this to you later.)
Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
On brewing Hiatus in Traverse City, having commandeered the stepson's AOL
account.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:01:22 -0400
From: Bob.Sutton@fluordaniel.com
Subject: NaOH and Glass Carboys
Jeremy Bergsman stated:
>I have largely given up on TSP in favor of NaOH ("lye" or "caustic").
>While potentially a little more dangerous than TSP it seems to me that
>the hazards are similar in nature and magnitude and it is cheaper and
>easier on the environment (as far as I know anyway). Does TSP offer
>any cleaning power other than the high pH?
I don't know what concentration you're working at, but NaOH can etch glass (ever
notice how the heavy-duty toilet cleansers are typically HCl-based), providing
all sorts of nooks and crannies for the scumdoochies to hang out. I don't have
my corrosion data handy, but if you limit your concentration to 0.2N, and
operate at "ambient" conditions, and you should have negligible etching and
achieve a cleansing and sanitization action - though I can't comment on the
anti-microbial effectivity of 0.2N NaOH versus iodophor.
Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 13:03:46 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Low-tech starter method
Hello. I've been following the starter thread and will choose to direct
the discussion somewhere else. Let's say that I believe a HUGE health
starter is a great start to wonderful beer. I hear people talk about "2L
starters" and other volumes. I also hear people recommend using stir
plates, constant aeration with an aquarium stone, and even an oscilating
whatever. It seems that to maximize growth to create the largest
population of yeast from a given starter that some form of "constant"
oxygenation is beneficial (i.e. stirring, or air pump, or agitation). Now,
what if I don't have a stir plate, oscilator, or aquarium pump and don't
want to make a 5 gallon starter (please note insertion of slight sarcasm).
Could you effectively increase the yeast growth by increasing the exposed
surface area of the starter? IOW, if you use the same starter volume
(without any "constant" aeration or agitation) could you expect a larger
yeast population by spreading the starter very thin, as opposed to deep?
It would be easier for me to get a large shallow piece of tupperware or
something, as opposed to buying / fabricating more gadgets if I could
expect some improvement over current methods (i.e 1L and 2L erlenmyers). I
hope this makes sense.
nathan
Nathan L. Kanous II, Pharm.D., BCPS
Clinical Assistant Professor
School of Pharmacy
University of Wisconsin - Madison
Office Phone (608) 263-1779
Pager (608) 265-7000 #2246 (digital)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:13:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: Overpitching
Paul asks if overpitching may be a myth.
First, let me point out that since most homebrewers underpitch, the
likelyhood of overpitching is quite remote. I'll bet you can pitch
5 or 10 times what the average homebrewer pitches and still not be
overpitching.
In the past, sevearl HB authors have suggested that overpitching can
lead to autolysis... I believe that Noonan is one of them. Since he
didn't give a reference or a plausable reason, I will remain skeptical.
Therefore, I can only guess at the reasons that overpitching might be
bad for your beer, but I'll just toss it out for discussion and see
what we can come up with as a collective. I speculate that if you
pitch too many cells into your wort:
1. The limited amount of oxygen you can dissolve in your wort is
shared by a larger number of cells, so that each yeast cell gets less
oxygen than if you had pitched "the proper amount." Less oxygen means
less alcohol tolerance because of weak cell membranes. I should point
out, however, that prior to dehydration, yeast destined to be dry yeast
are aerated very well. Dry yeast not only outnumbers liquid yeast when
it comes to pitching without stepping-up, but also the yeast comes
ready for work.
2. The yeast population is relatively old in any starter and therefore
since there are more cells and a limited amount of nutrients and oxygen
to go around, the yeast cannot multiply as much as if there were fewer
of them sharing the resources. Less growth in an already aging
population means an even more aged population by the end of fermentation.
Personally, after critically tasting well over 1500 homebrewed and more
than 2000 different commercial beers, I can only recall two beers that were
noticeably rubbery, clearly indicating autolysis. I believe that either
my threshold for the aromas and flavours of autolysis is very high or
that the risk of autolysis is (forgive me)... overpitched.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:22:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: holes in my fridge
Steve writes:
> When I say I drilled the hole, I really used a hole saw on a drill to
>accomplish it. I drilled from the inside, cut through the inside layer and
>then stopped. The side of the refrigerator had fiberglass insulation, so I
>was able to kind of push the insulation aside (watch out for the sharp
>edges!) and peer into the refrigerator wall to see if there were any
>refrigeration lines in the way. As it happened, it was clear, so I finished
>it up.
The insulation you bring up is very important to the efficient running of
the fridge. I've read where you want to make sure that you seal up the
outside and inside holes (perhaps with silcone tub caulk?) so that moisture
cannot:
1. get into the inside of the fridge (leading to mould), and
2. condense on the *outside* of the *inner* wall, wetting the insulation
and therefore making the fridge very inefficient.
Hey, Tuttle: We know the inside shell is supposed to be moisture-proof, but
is there a vapour barrier seal on the *outside* shell of most fridges?
Is the aforementioned a valid concern?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:29:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: Wyeast 2007
Jeff writes:
>2007 is reputedly Anheuser/Busch and very
>neutral. That's OK, but maybe you'll want a little more character.
Check your sensitivity to acetaldehyde, Jeff. Both Wyeast #2007 and
the A-B Budweiser yeasts are strong acetaldehyde producers and tend
to leave a *lot* of it in the finished beer. Acetaldehyde, for those
who aren't familiar, lends a green apple aroma/flavour to the beer.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:36:09 -0400
From: feldman@lexmark.com
Subject: Oak in brewing
Alan writes wanting commercial examples of "oaked beers". Well, I had
never had a beer with any type of oak character, but I just tried Portland
Brewing's IPA Seasonal. It is an "oaked beer", and in my opinion it is
also a good beer. You can taste the oak flavor, but it is not overwhelming
and there are plenty of hops in there also. I recommend you try it. It
should be relatively easy to find. On a related note (concerning Al's
post) the beer says on it's label something to the effect that in the
1800's the British came up with the IPA style which was characterized by
hop flavor and rich oak character. Any comments Al? Have you tried this
one? Would this be an example of your proposed American IPA? Is that the
American Oak taste? If it is I LIKE IT!!!!!
Bobby Feldman
BOCK Member
Brewers of Central Kentucky
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:43:19 -0700
From: Badger Roullett <branderr@microsoft.com>
Subject: Historical Brewing Article for review
I recently entered an SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism, if you don't
know what that is go to http://www.sca.org/sca-intro.html for an
explanation.) Arts and Sciences competition with a Honey Chamomile Amber
Ale. i produced in the way of documentation an article on the production of
the above recipe, and its relation to Period ingredients and methods.
I posted this article to the web, and you can find it on my brewing page at
http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/beer/honeycham.html.
My question is this... Should i submit this, or something similar to
magazines like Brewing Techniques or BYO? is it, or other articles like it,
something you would wish to read in magazines? i produce articles for our
local newsletters (SCA) all the time, and was wondering if maybe i could
branch off into modern magazines as well.
Feedback is appreciated.
*********************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger
Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html
In the SCA:
Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:56:06 -0700
From: Badger Roullett <branderr@microsoft.com>
Subject: Oak Casks and Flavor...
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: Oak in brewing
"1. they used European oak as opposed to American oak (which is far more
"oaky") to make the casks... there are a number of old English brewing books
that specifically say to NOT use American Oak for casks because it *imparts
a flavour* to the beer
Ok Al, and all you Beer Brained Buckaroos out there....
Oak Casks.. how does one tell American and Euro Oak? how can you age a
beer in a SMALL (5 gallon) cask with out adding too much flavor?
Why? As a historical recreationist, and a brewer, i want to try my hand at
casking a batch. the Coolness Factor of showing up at an event with a 5
gallon cask is immesurable, and its period to boot. My plan is to buy a
cask from local brewing store (Evergreen, or the Cellar) for around $100
(ouch!! anyone know of cheaper?) and brew a 10 gallon batch, and SS Keg 5
gallons, and Oak Cask the other 5 gallons. Force carb one, and natural the
other, and compare them for taste and flavor. I also wish to enter the cask
in a Baronial (sca stuff again) Arts and Sciences Competition so any
pointers to Cask brewing articles on the net, or books would be
appreciated..
any one done any similar research they can share?
Badger
*********************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger
Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html
In the SCA:
Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith christiann <kchris1@lausd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Carbonating in a keg & CAP (help)
Brew Brothers,
Carbonating kegs:
I like to carbonate my kegs by force carbonating through the liquid out
connection. The gas bubbles up the dip tube and seems to carbonate
quicker. What makes this process so easy is that I use flare fittings. This
makes it quick/easy to interchange fittings. When cold, gassing/rocking for a
few minutes does the trick! I'll time it next time (4 minutes sounds about
right for me).
***
Jeff Renner kindly responds to my CAP questions below (please bare with
the way I snip and reply. It is easiest for me).
***
>I would like to brew a batch of CAP in honor of my child that will be
here
>soon.
My kids are gone a lot, too. ;-)
I can't wait for mine to arrive! He or she will be learning to read
thermometers, pH papers, and scales at an early age guaranteed ;-).
***
>For a 10 gallon batch, I am considering the following recipe/procedure:
>
>15 lb. American 6 Row (will I need to adjust the gap on my Malt Mill?)
>4 lb. Flaked Maize
Sounds good. I find that a double pass on the standard MM gap works well
for 6-row
What is the standard gap. I just started to play with the adjustments and I
don't know where it was initially. I think I remember JS posting that it was
near .045? I also remember Dave B. and others got good results from
making the first pass at .08 and the second for .06, but that may have been
for 2-row and not 6-row?
***
If you're up to step mashing, I'd mash in at 40C (104F) and just pass
through 50C on the way to 60C with no rest. That's what I do with good
results. Of course, I can ramp at about 1 degree C/minute with my bottom
fired RIMS. (Gee, I hope your text reader can handle these abbreviations
and acronyms). Also, I'm beginning to think that a 70C (158F) rest,
while historically correct, in my system results in a less attenuated, less
crisp beer than I'd like.
Yes, I am up to step mashing. I have a gas fired stove and an EM installed
in my mash tun. I do need to purchase a pump to keep temps from
fluctuating... That reminds me to give Moving Brews a call for that pump!
I have noticed that I can manage temps better when using a thinner mash
(and no scorching) approximately 1.3-1.5 qt/lb.
***
My last batch, presently lagering, I rested at
153F, then 158F (George Fix has reported improved foam stand with 15
min. at this temp).
I will dough in at 104 and ramp to 153 slowly.
But I am not clear on how long you are recommending to rest at 153 and
158. For a crisper beer I would think resting for 45 mins at 153 and 15
mins at 158 would meet the desired goal. Please correct me if my
assumptions are incorrect.
***
Can/Should I use Albers Corn Meal from the grocery store in place of the
flaked maize? If so, I'll give a cereal mash a try.
I have a very nice rice cooker (which keeps rice nice and hot/moist for at
least 3 days). It boils and steams rice. Can this be a useful tool for doing
cereal mashes or decoction? It would be easy to hit sac temps on the stove
and then place in cooker for a boil and keep hot until it is needed! Or
should I just use it for rice and use the steamed rice for a cream ale?
***
Good luck and let us know how it turns out. Oh, and congratulations on
the impending arrival of the new brewer. Brew now while you can, because
the next 18 years are a roller coaster ride with no getting off until the end
of the ride. Right now you're on that slow clank, clank, clank up the up
the first hill. The bar is down across your lap and you're locked in, but
the ride hasn't really started, yet. Then you reach the top and wow! Your
world is changed forever. But I wouldn't have traded my ride for anything.
I will report back with my results and I truly appreciate your response. It is
time to get back on the roller coaster (very nice analogy). Oh, how do I get
that clanking noise in my head to stop!
Keith
Being blind does not bum me out...
BEING OUT OF HOMEBREW DOES!!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:05:05 -0700
From: Badger Roullett <branderr@microsoft.com>
Subject: Women and Beer
From: "Miller, Monica" <MMiller@dowagro.com>
Subject: Re: Women Brewers
" However, I do disagree with Monika's statement that "most women simply
don't like beer". I don't question your observations, but I think you
may be misinterpreting them. I find it hard to believe that gender
determines whether one likes or dislikes beer. I do know some women who
basically think they shouldn't like beer, so they aren't open to it.
(And, these are usually the women who give me "the look" when I say I'm
a homebrewer.) Friends of mine, both male and female, who really
don't like beer also tend to be the folks who don't like strongly
flavored anything. "
My experience has been that Men tend to "Aquire" the taste for beer in high
school, and its a guy thing. but i also like to specialize crafting beers
for people who don't like the taste of "beer" beer. My lady really can't
stand the taste of beer. i recently made a Honey Chamomile Amber, that
changed her mind. she now has started bugging me to make more of that for
her... My ex-wife hated beer too, and i made a nice mellow Blackberry
wheat, that she liked, drank regularly, and the key fact was that it was
loved by all. I agree that many beer is in general a Guy thing, and the
media, and culture really continue to foster this image. But women can, and
do Like, and Brew beer. a nice thing to do (hint for brewers with SO's who
say they don't like beer) is to make a special effort to craft a beer they
do like. this make relations better with the spouse, you get lotsa points
when you find the recipe they like, and its an excuse to branch into
possibly new areas of brewing. Me i am not a real stout bitter beer person
either, so i brew nice mellow, fruity, tasty beers, and no one complains in
the slightest..
badger
*********************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger
Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html
In the SCA:
Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:11:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: Women and beer
Monica writes:
> However, I do disagree with Monika's statement that "most women simply
>don't like beer". I don't question your observations, but I think you
>may be misinterpreting them. I find it hard to believe that gender
>determines whether one likes or dislikes beer. I do know some women who
>basically think they shouldn't like beer, so they aren't open to it.
>(And, these are usually the women who give me "the look" when I say I'm
>a homebrewer.) Friends of mine, both male and female, who really
>don't like beer also tend to be the folks who don't like strongly
>flavored anything.
Bitter foods are an aquired taste, right? There's an initial threshold
that you must cross before you like bitter foods like beer. The women
that I've met and known over the years appear to less prone to peer
pressure then men are and "being macho" is certainly not on their list
of things to do. I believe that it could be that young men's need to be
accepted by their peers and the association of beer with male adulthood
that might be the "big gap" between men and women in the area of drinking
enough beer to get beyond that initial threshold. On the other hand, until
relatively recently, "good beer" has been rare and perhaps it's just that
women aren't afraid to admit that they don't like Industrial Light Lagers.
I didn't like beer until my first trip to England. The beer there was
so tasty that I quickly learned to love it. Upon returning, I seeked
out similar-quality beer, but found it virtually unavailable. However,
I did learn to semi-enjoy Industrial Light Lagers, although it took English
Ales to get me to cross that initial threshold. Eventually, I started
homebrewing *primarily* because I couldn't find Bitter in the US!
Similarly, my wife never liked beer until her first trip to England. Beers
she thought were awful before the trip were "delicious" afterwords (Sierra
Nevada Pale Ale, for example..."ick" before, and now it is tied with
Rodenbach Grand Cru as her favourite beer).
I suggest that a week in England will cure beer-haters of both sexes...
...actually, this is a good week (first week in August) as it is
when the Great British Beer Festival is held in Olympia, London.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:17:28 -0700
From: Badger Roullett <branderr@microsoft.com>
Subject: List of Dried Yeasts?
Greeting Beer People,
i was wondering if there was a good source material (such as a handy web
page) for information regarding the different types of DRIED beer yeasts
available.. such as floculation, flavor profiles, experiences, best with
which style etc. etc.
i use dry yeast, and am not really intersted right now in moving to starters
because of time and frig/counter space issues with roommates. so this sort
of information would be really helpful for me..
questiosn such as...
which dry yeast is best in a sweet stout?
which dry yeast is best when making a Pale ale?
which dry yeast is best for making english ales?
which dry yeast is best for doing High Gravity batches?
Badger
***************************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger
Homepage: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger
Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html
In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:29:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: Clinitest
Dave again posts how superior Clinitest is to hydrometers.
I, of course, disagree (even if Siebel does use it... I'm sure
they also take many hydrometer and refractometer readings too!).
I'd like to thank Dave for spurring me to finally put together
that Clinitest page on my website. Rather than clog the HBD with
the same old story, you can find my thoughts on this subject at
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/articles/clinitest.html.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2792, 08/09/98
*************************************
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