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HOMEBREW Digest #2776
HOMEBREW Digest #2776 Fri 24 July 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Not quite stuck ferment with Wyeast 2206 / QOB (Charley Burns)
Re: Extract brewing questions (Mark Swenson)
Scaling up: The next step? ("Steven J. Owens")
how to sample or tap a high pressure tank (Laurel Maney)
commercial examples of high IBU? (Kevin TenBrink)
Dunkelweizen Correction ("Eric Schoville")
Mash temp; 5 gal mash tun; carboy safety; Saison (Samuel Mize)
Wyeast 1742 / You don't know Jack ("Andrew Avis")
Equality in Brewing (EFOUCH)
Bargain burners (SBireley)
Starter (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
Mega IBU? ("Rob Jones")
Hemp beers (NEWTRADBC)
Re: Better temp control in a Gott ("Ludwig's")
Force carbonating 5 L minikegs; postfermentation beer modifications ("bret.morrow")
Re:Moving full carboys ("Ludwig's")
Hot and sweaty, that's how I like it (Charles Burns)
Fine/Coarse Grind Difference (Fred Waltman)
Coopers (Australia) website address ("PARKER,Myles")
propane cookers ("Mark Phillips")
Wort Under Layer Of CO2 (bob_poirier)
RE: Counter Pressure Filling (Robert Arguello)
Chlorine bleach and Cornelius kegs or anything Stainless (MAB)
To rack OFF the yeast or from UNDER it? ("Gregg Soh")
Have you entered a MCAB qualifier yet?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 09:03 PDT
From: caburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: Not quite stuck ferment with Wyeast 2206 / QOB
After searching the archives for discussions about this yeast I came across
some discussions last year regarding C02 saturation. None of the discussions
mentioned any particular yeast strain.
My situation is this: A high gravity Oktoberfest 1.075 OG being fermented at
52F with Wyeast 2206. Within the first 9 hours I had a nice krausen and
fireworks display fermentation inside my Son-of-fermentation-chiller. After
14 days the gravity had fallen to 1.031. I'm hoping for 1.019-1.021. After 4
more days (18 total) its down to 1.028. Its still bubbling, but very slowly.
Is there any danger from such a loooonnnngggg primary? I did notice that a
huge amount of C02 is in the partially fermented beer, along with a ton of
suspended yeast - not flocced yet, but not doing much either. I went ahead
last night and raised the fermentation temp to 54F thinking the yeast would
be happier and more active. But thinking about it while driving to work this
am, and reading the c02 toxicity/supersaturation discussion from last June,
I'm wondering if that was such a good idea.
Should I lower the temp back to 52F and just swirl the carboy to help
release some of that C02? It was a very clean wort, nearly trub free, which
could be the cause of so much c02 - lack nucleation sites according to Dave
Draper. The first batch in my new 1/2 barrell kettle (which I dearly love
and will put large rock in next time - thanks DS).
I wish I had more time to play with this fermentation but I may be going out
of town for a week, starting Saturday and I need to get this bugger finished
and into the lagering fridge.
=================================================================
Sam Mize posts[re QOB]:
[sam]Charley Burns posted an announcement for the "Queen of Beer"
competition. Is this related to the "Queen of Quaff" column in Southwest
Brewer? The name is similar, but not the same.
[me] No relationship at all Sam, never heard of it.
[sam]Since both coordinators have email addresses, why did they have to get
a MAN to do their HBD posting? :-) I'll assume he was just passing on some
info he'd received.
[me] I've been a very strong supporter of this competition for the last 2
years that I have known these women. They are current and past officers of
our club, the original idea for the competetion came from Beth Zangari 5
years ago. I volunteered to do the posting at our club's steering committee
meeting last week and followed through on my comittment. Both women are
extremely busy and neither are HBD'rs as far as I know. Beth works full time
with the County Fire Dept, part time at Jack Russel brewery (organizing
special functions like a 7 barrell big 10/20 brew for us homebrewers) and
part time at another job (that I know of). The emails I get from her are
normally time stamped just after midnight, because she writes and paints
also. Not much time for perusing HBD. (She's also a judge, scored at
National level last year).
[sam]Perhaps this competition will raise the visibility of women in brewing,
and that's good. There's a stereotype of this being a "man's" hobby -- at
the moment, that's demographically true, but there's no inherent reason
for it.
[me] That's exactly the main purpose of the competition, to celebrate and
encourage the participation of those we cannot live without (with?).
[sam]On the other hand, I'd hate to see a lot of "women-only" contests, or
"women's" sections in regular brewing contests.
[me] this is the only competition like in the world as far as we can tell
and we're very proud of it.
[sam] Is there any kind of organization working on getting women brewing,
and raising their visibility?
[me] Yes, Hangtown Association of Zymurgy Enthusiasts (H.A.Z.E.). We're
doing our best and this is our mode of operation. Its fun and we get to
sample an incredible amount of really great beer. But let me tell you this -
it takes several rounds/flights to get through the "specialty" category
which is by far the most popular in this competition. BTW - Nora brews a
KILLER chili beer - gold medals in several competitions.
Charley
"Us Californians are not SUFFERING from insanity, we EJOY every
minute of it."
[100.5 The zone]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:54:22 -0400
From: Mark Swenson <swenson@aoml.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: Extract brewing questions
> Bill Goodman <goodman@APWK01G1.nws.noaa.gov> asks
> I have some questions about making extract-based brews:
> 1. Earlier this year, I recall reading some HBD posts
> recommending limiting the use of Irish Moss in protein-
> deficient worts (including those made from malt syrups) to
> 1/4 teaspoon or less. What makes malt syrups protein
> deficient? Would a 4 lb. can of Alexander's Pale
> Malt Extract, which provides 128 ppm FAN (free amino
> nitrogen?) at 10% solution, be considered protein deficient?
> What are some typical FAN levels for all-grain brews?
I reccommend you read "Malt Extracts: Cause for Caution" by Martin Lodahl
[Brewing Techniques July/August 1993]. It's online at:
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.2/lodahl.html
I quote a part to answer your question:
Because it appears that a wort FAN content must exceed 150 mg/L to avoid
stuck or incomplete fermentation (7), many brewers preferring (sic) to keep
their worts above 200 mg/L, it is reasonable to expect a troubled
fermentation from a wort made solely from extracts such as those tested in
this study.
This suggests to me that 128 ppm FAN of Alexander's is low in this context.
After reading this article, I have motivated myself to include wort from a
partial mash of 2-3 lbs to my extract-based brews. (It's fun, too. See
Ken Schwartz's http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/partial.html for an
easy and dependable procedure for moving to partial mashes.)
Mark Swenson
Key Biscayne, FL
Miami Area Society of Homebrewers
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:04:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Scaling up: The next step?
Folks,
My brother and I have been brewing for a few years now, and we're
thinking about scaling up a bit. The question I have is, what's the
next step?
For scaling up, I'm curious about two things. First, what are
the easy steps for scaling up for home brewing. Second, what are the
very-low-end options for scaling up for, say, a microbrewpub?
So far we've been doing 5 gallon batches with a 2 gallon pot on
a standard kitchen gas range and 5 gallon carboys. A couple years
ago we started using Cornelius kegs, which make life a heck of a lot
easier. So far we've never done full-mash brewing, just dry malt
extract (in large quantities).
After discussions with people who seem to know what they're
doing, it sounds like doing a full mash, while technically
interesting, doesn't really give you much more than better fine
control over the malt and a relatively small savings. Is this true?
Sometimes I get the feeling there's an unspoken rule that you're not
"real brewer" unless you do full mash brewing.
For the home, somebody suggested getting a 5-gallon pot and doing
double-batches, since most of the muss and fuss is doing the
boil. Then we pour out to two carboys at once and do the rest of it as
normal. I suspect we'd also have to get a special stove for this,
because our current pot is about at the limits of what our kitchen gas
stove can do.
For brewpubs, I've heard very little about what's available.
Everything I've heard suggests that we're looking at costs in the
$30-50K range. Is there any way to edge into this level of brewing
for less than $5K? We have several acquaintances who have bars and
nightclubs and could probably be talked into doing a small brewpub
effort just to see how it goes, but $30K is a big chunk of change.
What are the issue with barrels, etc, when you get into this
stuff? Obviously we'd have to ferment in larger containers than
5-gallon carboys. What about the connections between the bar taps
and the beer barrels? I suspect the bartaps aren't compatible
with cornelius kegs, and in any event cornelius kegs may be a bit
small for the job...
Is there a good book on this stuff out there?
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
puff@rt1.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:04:49 -0700
From: Laurel Maney <maney@execpc.com>
Subject: how to sample or tap a high pressure tank
In answer to Mark Swenson's question about dispensing from a keg at
relatively high pressure - you're right to use a longer dispense line,
but you might also try coiling it up several times (say, a 5-6" diameter
coil or as small as you can make it without kinking the tubing) to give
more back pressure. You then have to waste some beer adjusting the flow
rate to a clear stream - more open may work better than more closed.
This is how we sampled tanks where I used to work, using 1/4" instrument
air tubing which would slide nice and tight into a swickle. Let me know
how you make out.
Laurel Maney, The Woodstock Brewer - Milwaukee Area Technical School,
Brewing Certificate Instructor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:24:22 -0600
From: Kevin TenBrink <tenbrink@jps.net>
Subject: commercial examples of high IBU?
Having recently started all-grain after 2 years and 50 batches of
extract/specialty grain has left me with a few questions, any and all
help would be appreciated!
1) I am using a 10 gallon rubbermaid with Phalse bottom and sparge arm.
I cut a piece of racking tube lengthwise and wrapped around the
circumference of the phalse bottom and held it down with my brew paddle
while doughing in to try and avoid getting grain under the bottom and
prevent the dreaded stuck sparge, well this was unsuccessful...does
anyone have a way to keep the bottom from phloating up in the water
before I add the malt?
2) I like hops!! I typically use 6-8 ozs in each 5 gallon batch, the IBU
calculators usually give me numbers in the 90-120 range. Are there any
commercially available beers with REALLY high IBUs that I could try to
see if I am getting these kind of numbers in reality instead of just
theory? If you know of any brewpubs between Salt Lake City and MI and
not too far off I-80 with beers meeting this criteria, I am driving from
SLC to MI Aug 23 and would be able to stop in.
3) I have some second year hop plants that are really cranking out the
cones this year. I have noticed some of the cones are mutant double
headed monsters....the variety is Saaz, is this typical, or am I living
too close to the chemical weapons incinerator?
thank you for your time-
kevin
Salt Lake City ---> MI
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jul 98 10:12:16 -0700
From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Dunkelweizen Correction
I made an error in my post about dunkelweizens the other day.
My recipe was 50% Munich/50% wheat. Not 50% Pils/50% wheat.
Eric Schoville
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:21:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize@mail.imagin.net>
Subject: Mash temp; 5 gal mash tun; carboy safety; Saison
Andrew Ager writes:
> Greetings oh HBD, the Great and Powerful....hey! who are all those guys
> running around back there drinkin' beer!?!
Pay no attention to the man behind that curtain. Trust me, you DON'T
want to watch. (Hey, the beer's gotta go somewhere.)
> However, I'd like to get even temps in the mash-tun. Could it be I'm just
> not stirring enough?
I can't see how a thin mash (third rest) could HELP but equalize after 45
minutes. Might your thermometer have a problem? If it's mechanical, maybe
it's just sticking at 130 sometimes.
- - - - - - - - - -
Badger Roullett asks about using a 5-gallon mash tun for 10-gallon batches.
IIRC a five-gallon tun will work for up-to-middlin'-strong five-gallon
batches. If so, your ten gallon batches will be small beer. OTOH, small
beer is in period, and some of your customers may find it quite refreshing.
It's much tastier than today's "lite" beers (for what THAT'S worth).
You can also do the world's largest partial mash batches. You should get
flavor benefits over an extract-n-steep batch.
Or use 50% table sugar and tell 'em it's Belgian :-)
Or, mash twice. It won't hurt the first five gallons to sit for an hour or
so. I'd keep it above 150 for pasteurization, but for this short a delay
that's just my paranoia talking.
BTW, are you educating your customers' palates about common beers in the
medieval period, e.g. cloudy, soured, dark... Many households made beer,
and results were all over the map. I'm not saying to make a BAD beer,
some of them weren't bad at all -- I'm just curious if you've given them
a real taste of the period.
I've had some excellent fermented beverages in the SCA. I also recall a
couple of SCA mead brewers who were PROUD their work tasted like battery
acid. They considered a single remaining sugar molecule to be a personal
challenge. But when I was a member, nobody in my area was working with
beer (just meads), or really brewing to period.
I assume you're familiar with the Historical Brewing digest. If not, or
in case anyone else is interested: it's for discussions of any form of
brewing which is not "modern." Run by an SCA member, but NOT limited to
Europe between 500 and 1600 A.D. It's a very low-traffic list (dead for
weeks, sometimes). To subscribe, send this message to majordomo@pbm.com :
subscribe hist-brewing your_email@address Your Name
making the obvious replacements.
- - - - - - - - - -
Bill Goodman asks for safety pointers regarding moving full 5-gallon
carboys. DON'T DO IT! OK, if you won't follow the Way of Plastic, here's
some help:
a. Get a milk crate and put the carboy in it, or any kind of box that will
let you lift from the bottom. Milk crates have good handles.
If you use a cardboard box, make SURE the bottom isn't wet (and soft),
and always lift from the bottom -- the sides can tear. I know you know
all this, but stop to think about it EVERY TIME.
b. Liquid Bread sells a carboy cradle that lets you lift from the bottom
with straps.
c. Run strips of electrical tape around your carboy, parallel to the floor
(the tape, wise guy, don't lie down to do it), at about 4 to 8 inch
intervals. Carboys aren't safety glass, they break into big shards.
This will contain the shards.
> I had been lugging full carboys around with one of those orange carboy
> handles, and am probably quite lucky that the necks didn't snap right off
The usual failure mechanism is the handle slipping. From what I've read,
if they're clamped down properly they're perfectly safe, but it may be hard
to tell that it isn't clamped down properly. I believe they're marketed
with a warning to not use them with full carboys, which is about as helpful
as marking a Ferrari "not for use at illegal speeds."
> makes me wonder if I should replace the carboys I have...
Dunno if you were serious here. No, don't worry about it. Glass usually
fails catastrophically if it fails at all. If it's still in one roughly
carboy-shaped piece, it's probably fine.
- - - - - - - - - -
Dave Sapsis says: "OK, now someone make my day and tell me I'm wrong."
You're wrong.
Specifically, since I agree with your comments, you're wrong to want to
be contradicted.
Happy to make your day.
- - - - - - - - - -
JGORMAN asks:
> What is Saison. ...
> It was an interesting brew sweet and light in color with a thick flavor.
Good question. Let's get some data on HBD instead of just private replies.
You see Saison mentioned on HBD, but not discussed much -- no substance in
1998 and 1996, just a recipe and a few style comments in 1997 (I'm sending
these to JGORMAN -- may I call you JGOR? -- by email).
It's an interesting brew, sweet and light in... well THAT's no help.
Saison is a Belgian beer, a spiced wheat style, I think.
It's described in Al Korzonas' Homebrewing volume I, which you can order at
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ (no affiliyada but I'll make Al a buck if
I can). I don't have it here with me to quote from.
The name means "season," it's a light summer beer (by Belgian standards,
that is, it's not a lawnmower beer by any means.)
- - - - - - - - - -
Used up some old extract. Now tending a stout volcano.
Best,
Sam Mize around Dallas TX
- --
Samuel Mize -- smize@imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:52:48 -0400
From: "Andrew Avis" <Andrew.Avis.aavis@nt.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1742 / You don't know Jack
> I've been contemplating using the mysterious Wyeast 1742 (Swedish Porter)
> in an upcoming brew. To get a feel for this yeast, I first had a look at
> the stat sheet from my local brew shop. The description was brief, with
> no temp range. I next consulted a couple of web pages (Maryland Homebrew
> has a good one, as does Scott Murman at
> http://www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy/yeast.html ). Not much more. I then
> did an HBD archive search, and found that two posters complained that 1742
> stuck, and four more wanted to know what a Swedish Porter was. That's it.
> When I checked the source (Wyeast's web site: http://www.wyeastlab.com),
> there's the old brief description. I did notice that the stats for this
> yeast have changed since the first descriptions were published 2 years
> ago. The new stats are:
> Attenuation: 68-72%
> Temp range: 64 - 74F (no recommended temp)
> (the old descriptions I've seen on the web list a 69-73% attenuation, and
> temp range of 69-73F).
>
> So... has anyone used this yeast with success, and care to comment on its
> performance, flavour profile, etc? Is it really a sticker? Is there an
> optimum temperature? I've got a 64F basement just waiting for an ale, but
> I'm afraid 64 may be on the low end and result in sluggish fermentation.
> ----
> On the "who is Jack Schmidling" thread... apparently someone by that name
> is a Net Legend. Check out the FAQ:
> http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~tskirvin/faqs/legends/legends1.html
>
> To quote:
>
> > Jack Schmidling is not just a Usenet kook and a suburban-Chicago lawn
> kook,
>
> >he is an internationally famous amateur radio kook also.
>
> There's more if you're interested.
>
> Andrew Avis
> Calgary
>
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jul 1998 13:56:45 -0400
From: EFOUCH@steelcase.com
Subject: Equality in Brewing
Sam said:
>Is there any kind of organization working on getting women brewing, and
>raising their visibility? Do you women on the list think that would be a
>good idea?
>Best,
>Sam Mize
I think chicks who brew are cool.
Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood, MI
"I'm a four wheel drive pickup kind of guy, and so's my wife"
-Mike Greenwell, Boston Red Sox outfeilder
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 14:04:19 EST
From: SBireley@renex.com
Subject: Bargain burners
I just got my latest Redhead hunting catalog (no affiliation) and in
it is a propane burner setup for 29.99. I has a welded steel stand, a
high pressure regulator, and a cast iron Brinkman type burner. It
looks like the diameter of the ring on the stand will fit inside the
skirt on a Sankey keg. They can be contacted on the web at
www.outdoor-world.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:29:45 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb@fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Starter
Dear friends,
I have been reading several posts lately about preparation of starters and
how they work better.
My method for preparing a starter is quite simple and I wonder whether I
follow the right procedure or not. I wonder whether my beer could be
improved if I follow a different procedure.
My method:
Pitch 3 tsp of dry yeast in 100 mL of boiled water at 35C.
About half an hour later, when yeast seem to be completely hydrolyzed and
foaming a little, add another 100 mL of water boiled with two or three tsp
of sugar. This water is around 35C.
About two later, when yeasts are bubbling and foaming, add this starter to
the wort, 5 gallons
I prepare this starter during mashing and preparation of the wort
(boiling time). This takes about 4 hours. Sometimes, times are not this
strict, I do not precise times exactly and may be a little longer or
shorter than I mentioned. But I can tell that yeasts are foaming and
bubbling when I pitch them into the wort.
I pitch at 23C. Fermentation starts after two or three hours and primary
fermentation is completed after 36 hours or less. Beers taste fine, but as
a first time brewer, I wonder if it could be improved following a
different procedure for starter preparation. My last batch was an oatmeal
stout. I am still to bottle.
I would appreciate your opinions.
Jorge Blasig
First homebrewer in Uruguay.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 07:00:27 -0400
From: "Rob Jones" <robjones@pathcom.com>
Subject: Mega IBU?
Hi all,
Here's one for the mathematically inclined in the crowd (or those
spreadsheet inclined). I calculated the IBU's for a recipe for a British
style pale ale that I really like after hopping up the original recipe a
bit.
According to my calculations I get 84 IBUs! Could this be true? I'm
skeptical about the accuracy of my calculations given that it doesn't seem
that bitter to me. Could it be my math is right and I'm a lupinomaniac after
all?
Here's the facts:
45g Northern Brewer at 75 minute addition
30g Fuggles at 75 minute addition
30g Fugles at 15 minute addition
60g East Kent Goldings dry hopped in pop tank ( if this is felt to be a
factor)
All are whole hops. I assumed a kettle utilization of 30% for the 75min, and
10% for the 15min. Starting boil volume is 27L, or 7.12 gal. Final volume
post fermentation is 19.5L (5.14 gal). Equipment losses probably total about
2L ( 0.53gal). OG at 19.5L was 1.052.
Thanks,
Rob Jones
Toronto, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:05:18 EDT
From: NEWTRADBC@aol.com
Subject: Hemp beers
I too agree with the recent commenters on the implicit linking between Hemp
used in beer and TLC laden hemp. This and other associations leads critics to
claim that hemp proponents are not really interested in hemp per se, but
rather the ability to grow fields of hemp to mask their marijuana plants.
I have also tasted Hempen Ale (Frederick Brewing Company, Blue Ridge, Wild
Goose, Brimstone and Deep Creek Brewing Co labels (maybe more, I'm not sure).
Although I personally did not care for it (I thought it tasted 'soapy' not
nutty), it is probably the best beer they make in terms of craftmanship and
cleanliness. It is also a product upon which they currently are surviving
(approx one-third of sales according to local paper). Take away Hempen Ale
and this micro doesn't exist for very long-so don't expect them to drop it
anytime soon.
My bigger gripe is that some micros seem to believe the only hope of survival
are gimmick beers, and few (at least here in the mid-Atlantic (I reside in
Frederick, MD) are focusing on quality (we finally got DeGroens and we're
still waiting for Victory out here-comeon guys, ship at least to Frederick!).
It is not unusual to find a local brewery's product that is six months or more
past "best by" date in a liquor store that is a mere five miles from the
brewery! Yet micros seem to focus on maximum distribution versus attention to
detail in the local market. I contrast this with some of the 'founders' like
Anchor and Sierra Nevada, that established themselves locally and developed
excellent quality control before nationwide distribution occurred (some micros
now export to China! that ought to be the 'fresh local beer' mantra upon
which the industry was based).
As a consequence of this ship it and don't care attitude, my purchases of
micro beer has dropped precipitously. I pretty much limit my purchases
(bottled or draft) to Sam Adams Lager, Guinness Draft (cans/draft), Sierra
Nevada or Anchor, and beers in brewpubs. Reason: Reliable quality, couldn't
care less about the price. I am, however, tired of shelling out $5-$9 for a
six-pack of stale or infected microbrew with a funky label and/or recipe.
Unfortunately the industry that advertised 'quality' now puts beer on the
shelf that any self-respecting homebrewer or budmilloors would dump in a
sewer. This approach to wide distribution/poor quality control plays right
into the hands of budmilloors and will only ensure that history (wiping out of
small breweries) will repeat itself.
Enough ranting- just want MORE quality microbrew on the shelf. And although
we like to criticize budmilloors, I was recently at a party and had (gasp!) a
Coor's Original ("Banquet Beer" on the label, what the **** does that mean?)
beer (bottle) and was simply shocked at how well made it was. It definitely
was not the assertive hoppy beers I normally drink, but I was surprised at the
clean taste and more amazed I could even identify a maltiness too it; no hops
though
:-(
You may flame away, but buy me a good fresh micro off the shelf and I'll admit
I'm wrong (at least for that specific instance). Victory, come west, PLEASE!
I shall return to lurk mode now, Tom Bergman as newtradbc@aol.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:16:30 -0400
From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig@us.hsanet.net>
Subject: Re: Better temp control in a Gott
Andy says about infusion mashing in a gott:
> to hit 131F pretty much on the nose. Now the problem came when I raised it
> to 149F for conversion -- I stirred quite a bit (another 2.25 qts. boiling
> water), but it was still all over the place -- some spots were still 130,
> others were spot-on at 149. I finally gave up and just sealed teh thing
> up, and hoped that the temps. would equalize themselves. Not.
>
> After 45 min., spots were still 130, and others were 149. I went ahead and
> sparged, and the extraction wasn't quite where I wnated it, but still good
> (missed by 3 points, not really that bad), so I assume conversion actually
> occurred.
>
> However, I'd like to get even temps in the mash-tun. Could it be I'm just
> not stirring enough?
Yep. I've been infusion mashing in a 5 gallon gott for several years and
find that if you don't stir often, the heat goes to the top. A 19 deg
differential seems high though. Most I've gotten was around 6 deg F
difference from top to bottom but that was with occasional stirring and
also underletting the mash rather than pouring on top. My copper coil
sparge manifold used to have an additional tube that I could let the hot
water in at the bottom. Occasional stirring? Oh, maybe every 10 minutes.
There's been a number of posts over the years talking about how well
Gott coolers hold the mash temp but I think a lot of that is due to
using a floating thermometer and just reading the temperature of the top
level of the mash. Bottom line; if you want even temp distribution in
your mash, you have to stir a lot. Or automate.
Dave Ludwig
Flat Iron Brewery
SO MD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:30:17 -0400
From: "bret.morrow" <bret.morrow@mci2000.com>
Subject: Force carbonating 5 L minikegs; postfermentation beer modifications
Greetings,
On 2/23/98 Jim Graham stated the "general consensus" was that you cannot
force carbonate in the small 5 L "party" kegs. I'd like to report that I
have successfully force carbonated still beer in these kegs. The details
were as follows: 1) only 4 L were in the minikeg, 2) max pressure placed on
the keg was 15 psi daily and then removed the line without shaking the
minikeg, and 3) about 4 days were allowed to carbonate the beer. General
consensus appears to be wrong.
On a second issue, the key advantage of these minikegs over my "real" kegs
is that they are small and a single 5 gall. batch of beer can be made into
4 "different" beers. For example, I had a single batch of dry stout (1.045
OG) and placed it into 4 minikegs. I added something different to each
keg: lactose for a milk stout, water to mimic that wonderful draft stout
(to get 1.035 "OG"), 10 coffee beans (whole) for a coffee stout, and
nothing (just the beer I brewed). Post-fermentation modifications are of
great interest to me now. One concern is that they may not be legal for
those who like contests. I am now about to brew another stout but will
likely use my "real" keg. I'll have a light ale in the minikeg. I plan to
modify each glass of stout, though, using concentrated solutions of
lactose, coffee, chocolate and anything else I can think of. I also have
some hops extract to mimic finishing and dryhopping (from HopTech). Other
suggestions are welcome. I am always interested in why people brew large
batches because 1) I like brewing and 2) variety is the spice of life!
Cheers,
Bret Morrow
Johnson Brewing, Home of the Yale Ale (not a real brewery, but it plays one
on TV)
New Haven, CT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:45:31 -0400
From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig@us.hsanet.net>
Subject: Re:Moving full carboys
Bill Goodman asks:
> Can anyone recommend some safety pointers regarding moving
> full 5-gallon carboys?
I've been manhandling 6.5 gal carboys for quite a while and my advice is
as follows:
1. Thoroughly rinse all soap or chlorox residue off the carboy before
filling it.
2. If possible, fill the carboy in as high a position as possible so you
don't ruin your back.
3. Before you move it, either open all doors you hope to go through or
have a helper do it. In other words, plan you route.
4. Try to have a table or something to sit the carboy on when you get
there. If you have a ways to go, you'll be tired and placing it on the
floor may be the last thing you want to do.
5. Before you move it, think about the consequences if you drop it.
6. Make sure you haven't had too much to drink before you move it.
This is just common sense stuff. But, do the ritual and it'll save you a
lot of grief.
7. Long pants and steel toed boots? If you're a really safe guy, sure.
Dave Ludwig
Flat Iron Brewery
SO Md
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 21:16 PDT
From: caburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Hot and sweaty, that's how I like it
Figured I could get this in while the janitor was looking the other way...
It was a hot, sultry afternoon. She said "I don't care, do whatever you
want, I won't even notice". So the wife went off to play golf on an
incredibly hot Saturday afternoon in July, and left me to fend for myself.
Actually she went off with Lana and left me and Victor to entertain
ourselves. So what did we decide to do on that hot afternoon? Weld. Yup, my
son had recently purchased a MIG (welder, not a Russian fighter aircraft).
So I designed my multi-tier brewery and had purchased 60 feet of 1x1x1/8"
angle iron ($18.50 at Blue Collar Supply).
Neither of us had ever used a MIG before and the last time I welded at all
was a really long time ago in high school. No big deal, the metal was cheap
and we had lots of it. I also purchased a metal cutting blade at Blue Collar
(only $2) so we didn't even have to use a hacksaw.
Our first order of business (after a couple of pints of 8% Strong Scotch)
was to cut the angle iron. I had drawn the whole thing out first on two
pieces of graph paper and so I knew exactly how many pieces of which length
we needed. Swinging 10' pieces of angle iron around the garage isn't too
safe when you've had a couple of home brews, but we only lost 1 beer glass
and no fingers or toes. We marked each cut with a metal scribe (actually a
left over 3" deck screw) and then clamped the angle iron down to a sawhorse
to make the cuts. It was quite a light show, watching all those sparks
coming from the saw - like a huge high powered sparkler on July 4th. Victor
noticed that the sparks were showering all over the acetylene tank and
thoughtfully moved it out of the way, otherwise it might have really gotten
warm that day.
Once we got stuff cut up we started welding. The mask was so dark you really
couldn't see through it. So we wasted a lot of MIG wire (auto feed, really
cool) making melted bubbles of metal all over the sides of some iron before
we figured it out. In order to see, we had to do the welding in bright
sunlight - yep, that really hot sunlight. After a while we got pretty good
at it, the thing went together pretty fast. The welding was so much fun, we
started fighting over who was going to get to do the next weld. Vic said
something about wanting a MIG machine of his own to start building patio
furniture. I suspect Lana may have something to say about that.
It was hot and it was sweaty. And by the way, angle iron is **really**
dirty. So, we welded a couple joints, drank a couple beers, cooled off and
shot a game of pool and then repeated the cycle a few times. I am now the
proud owner of a 3 tier brewing rack and we're both hooked on the new
welding hobby. The wives came home, toasted from golfing (Sooni's first
time, she managed to chip a shot into the hole, she's now a confirmed golfer
for life). They weren't too impressed with our rack, but Victor and I are
exceedingly proud of our creation. Even sober it looks great. Can't wait to
brew with it. Burner is still on order for the hot liquor tank.
Charley (with a second great hobby) in N.Cal
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:50:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Waltman <waltman@netcom.com>
Subject: Fine/Coarse Grind Difference
I don't want to get in the middle of a slugfest, but I do believe Jim
Busch is correct about the fine/coarse difference. I went thru my file of
"typical" data sheets (some of which are very old) and every one that
list both fine and course looks something like this:
Gambrin Pale GW 2 row
Fine Extract, %, Dry Basis 82 80.9
Coarse Extract, %, Dry Basis 80 80
Fine/Coarse Diff 2 0.9
Notice, it is not "Fine/Course Diff %" but just "Fine/Course Diff."
I couldn't find on original Briess 2-row sheet, just a hand written
transcription, and it agreed with the above (though I admit I could have
left off a % sign when transcribing)
Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply (Los Angeles area)
fred@brewsupply.com *or* waltman@netcom.com
http://www.brewsupply.com
"You can make better beer than you can buy."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:18:55 +1000
From: "PARKER,Myles" <myles.parker@deetya.gov.au>
Subject: Coopers (Australia) website address
All,
I was catching up on about 6 days worth of HBD's (off sick and
then @ a conference) and I'm not sure if somebody posted this is
response to Capt. Marc's post, but here is the URL for Coopers in
Adelaide:-
http://www.coopers.com.au/
Myles Parker,
Canberra Brewers Club,
Canberra.
Capital city of the
beautiful land of OZ!
Australia.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 05:52:13 -0400
From: "Mark Phillips" <phillipsmj@erols.com>
Subject: propane cookers
I will soon be brewing my first 10 gallon batch. My question concerns
propane cookers, what type should I get? Will I be able to boil 10 gallons
in a reasonable amount of time with something that puts out 100,000 BTU's,
or do I need the 200,000 BTU cooker?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:53:23 -0600
From: bob_poirier@adc.com
Subject: Wort Under Layer Of CO2
[LURK MODE _OFF_]
Greetings!!
A quick question regarding HSA of wort during cooling while using
an immersion wort chiller (I like to 'swish' the wort around in the
kettle with the chiller to speed things up a bit - sometimes the wort
splashes): What if I dumped some CO2 on top of the wort before I
started cooling it??? Would that minimize the chances HSA, or, would
the CO2 be dispersed for some reason that I cannot fathom??
TIA!
Brew On & Prosit!!
Bob P.
East Haven, CT
Home of Bubba's Bodaceous Basement Brewery
[LURK MODE _ON_]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:04:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac@calweb.com>
Subject: RE: Counter Pressure Filling
From: David Sherfey <sherf@warwick.net>
Subject: Re: Counter pressure filling / Benjamin filler
I had stated in an earlier post........
>When filling subsequent bottles, you will see the beer drop back towards
>the keg in the beer-in line when you open valve B in step 1. This is in
>part due to the weight of the beer in the line. This is why I have the
>keg LOWER than the filler. This allows you to judge the speed of the beer
>during filling.
David Sherfey then asked......
>What is in the empty space of the line? I would think that this is air,
>which would partially defeat the purpose of counter-pressure filling,
>purging air out of the bottle. Wouldn't it be better to avoid this by
>having the keg higher than the filler?
It isn't air. In the step just previous to this, we have purged the bottle
and filler of oxygen and replaced it with CO2. The system is now closed and
pressurized with CO2. The beer drops down the tube about 8 inches due to the
weight of the column and also because the pressure in the keg is a bit less
than the pressure in the bottle. I find it convenient to gauge the rate of
fill by watching the beer climb the tube.
********************************************************************
Robert Arguello <robertac@calweb.com>
CORNY KEGS FOR SALE! $12.00 each
http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/keg.htm
ProMash Brewers' Software - http://www/calweb.com/~robertac/promash
********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:06:29 -0400
From: MAB <mabrooks@erols.com>
Subject: Chlorine bleach and Cornelius kegs or anything Stainless
>Spencer W Thomas writes about som posts regarding chlorine attacking stainless:
>"philgro" writes
philgro> I've soaked beer kegs dozens of time for several days.Are
philgro> they pitted?Full of holes?
philgro> Hell no!
>As a counter example, I present this extract from a 1994 posting. The
>author's name has been removed to prevent further embarrassment.
anon> I stupidly left about 1/2 cup of bleach mixed with about 1
anon> gallon water stand in my Cornelius keg for a month or so
anon> (under CO2 pressure no less). The corrosive environment
anon> with -lots- of contact time DID perforate the stainless
anon> steel so now I can shoot a very fine stream out of my keg
anon> about 15 feet! Not cool.
This seems to be a situation where both stories are true. Chlorine
bleach in the "Store bought" bottle is 5.25% bleach or 52,500 mg/L
bleach (Cl2). If used in a highly diluted yet still disinfecting
concentration there should not be any problems with stainless contact,
even for semi-extended periods of time (a couple of weeks) especially if
not left under pressure. However, the second post above did not follow
these guidelines and from some quick calculations it seems that the
author had a 1,650 mg/L solution of chlorine bleach in his corny keg and
to top it off, had the keg pressurized so that the CL2 gas could not
move out of solution but instead was forced to stay in solution and
hence remain at the highly elevated concentration. Needless to say this
is not recommended.
So the moral of the story: Chlorine Bleach works great on stainless at
low concentrations at reasonable soaking times. Remember it does'nt take
much to kill those little bugs...10-20 mg/L for 30 minutes or more
should be fine, for shorter contact times, say 5 minutes try ~60 mg/L.
To calculate concentrations remember that 5.25% = 52,500 mg/L or 52.5
mg/ml. There are approx. 30 ml in on ounce so there is ~ 1,575 mg Cl2
per oz. of bleach. There are 2 oz. in a quarter cup = ~3,150 mg Cl2 if
you put this into 5 gal of water (assuming no other Cl2 present) you get
a concentration of ~166 mg/L Cl2 which is a bit too much, and shows you
really dont need as much as you think, an 1/8 of a cup for 5 min is
more than enough. Actually it only takes 10 ml into 5 gal. water give a
concentration of ~27 mg/L which should do the trick if you are planning
to store for a couple of days, remember that if left open to the
atmosphere and exposed to light Cl2 in solution will not want to stay
there so the concentration will go down over time. I would not
recommend storing any liquid, other then beer, in stainless for long
periods of time.
BTW - We use Iodophor to sanitize our stainless, also we lightly scrub
(synthetic SOS kitchen scrubby) the inside of the corny after each batch
to get rid of any "films" that might have taken hold during storage/use
of the corny keg. These films are difficult to detect and can cause
major problems down the road if not removed mechanically, a typical
homebrewer B-Brite solution wont do it.
Matt Brooks
Northern VA.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:13:54 PDT
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos@hotmail.com>
Subject: To rack OFF the yeast or from UNDER it?
Hi, it's me again. I've got a question that has been bugging me for a
long time. It's about top-working yeasts. All books I've read do not
adequately supply information on whether one should wait for the krausen
to drop before racking for secondary/maturation. I've had strains that
refused to drop after two weeks in the primary, and starins that just
drop after fermentation. In short, I'd want to know if I really need to
wait till the last moment to decide what is the best course of action,
which is the proper method? To rack off the yeast slurry or from under
the krausen?
Also, I'm confused about English yeast strains that are described as
very flocculent and yet they are top-working. I was under the impression
that these yeasts end up on the top, but only collapse because of their
weight and because there is less CO2 bubbling upwards, and the fact that
they might break up. I've had either case where the ale yeast quickly
drops, or cases where they stay on top for the whole of two weeks(and
beyond, if I had let them) but not both together. Unless they are two
strains, why do yeasts both flocculate and accumulate at the top?
I have an ale sitting for 4 days now(now = Wed 7/22 6pm Eastern),
finished in 2 days(20 degrees C) and the yeast might not ever drop(from
previous experience), probably caused by trapped CO2 I think, and that
the cake is so solid it won't break, I guess I want to know if I should
rack it. I've done both methods (waiting for it to drop then racking and
racking from under) but I can't decide which is better, so is there a
'right' way? As for trub particles and hop bits, my wort is usually very
clear in the fermenter(you can see through it), so my krausen is very
'clean'. I intend to mature at 10C as usual for ales. Should I rack from
under, or wait?
Regards,
Gregg Soh.
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------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2776, 07/24/98
*************************************
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