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HOMEBREW Digest #2749
HOMEBREW Digest #2749 Thu 25 June 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
queue length... (Some Guy)
MCAB / Eisbock / RIMS / HBD attitudes (Louis Bonham)
Steam Injec ("Raymond C. Steinhart")
Replacement Glatt Gears ("William E. Steimle")
Thermoelectric Temperature Controller (Rob Vermeulen)
I finally tasted Anchor Steam Beer! (Tom Alaerts)
M&F Premium (oberlbk)
Just a couple of questions.. (Ed Choromanski)
Bandwidth (Rod Schaffter)
AD: Free brewer's unit conversion software-UPDATED (Brian Dixon)
Candi sugar ("Houseman, David L")
question of respiration ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
Keg to Kettle Conversion Question (Charley Burns)
Welcome, new posters! (Samuel Mize)
rapid chill, mammoths, homebrew or not, eisbock and US law (Samuel Mize)
Re: When is Homebrew not Homebrew? (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
Yeast Ranching (Domenick Venezia)
Re: sour brew/AOB bashing (Steve Jackson)
Citrus Notes - followup (Paul Ward)
EstroHops (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
Re: Yeast Ranching Questions (Robert Arguello)
Re: When is Homebrew not Homebrew (Danny Breidenbach)
Yeasts for summer (Danny Breidenbach)
Bung size for Mini-kegs? ("Gregg Soh")
Re: Really big batches (Kelly Jones)
Re: Citrus Notes ("Tkach, Christopher")
Re: Styrofoam working tip (Charley Burns)
re: mashfest '98 ("Grow, Roger H")
Illegality of Eisbock?? (David Rinker)
BUZZ's Buzz-Off competition is June 27-28. Information is available at
www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff or via R. Mattie at
rpmattie@voicenet.com.
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org
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JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:08:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: queue length...
Greetings Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Folks, the queue is three (3) days long. Unheard of in the "nonbrewing"
season, but glorious to see nonetheless. To avoid the situation where we
have to initiate Sunday Digest delivery in order to throttle down the
queue, I ask that you reconsider that "egg-head brewer vs the newbies" or
AHA bash/defense post before hitting the send key. Those subjects are
bordering on tedium anyway...
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
"Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:13:56 -0500
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham@phoenix.net>
Subject: MCAB / Eisbock / RIMS / HBD attitudes
Hi folks -- A few things . . .
On the MCAB front, in the next few weeks I'll be getting the "official" entry
package out to everyone who's qualified. (They will be mailed after I get the
BUZZ-Off results and add them to the matrix.) For now, however, if you've
qualified and plan on entering a beer that will be at its best with 6+ months of
lagering / aging, start thinking about brewing soon . . . the MCAB is only 7.5
months away . . . . and I hope and expect to be seeing many of you there, even
if you've didn't qualify this time around.
Eisbock . . . . once again, we get an HBD question on this. Rather than reprise
old materials (search the 1997 HBD archives if you're interested), I'll just
reiterate the bottom line -- for us in the United States, the BATF takes the
position that if you remove more than a tiny percentage of the water from a beer
by freezing and don't replace it (which distinguishes eisbock from so-called
"ice beer"), you're producing distilled spirits, and thus commercial breweries
cannot do this without a distillers' permit. However, at least one BATF
official has opined that even under this interpretation, it would be OK for
homebrewers to make eisbock as far as the BATF is concerned as long as they
didn't sell it. This is, however, contrary to what other BATF folks have told
me, as well as contrary to the laws of at least several states. Thus if you're
planning on making Eisbock, just be advised that you may be on thin ice as far
as the legalities are concerned.
RIMS . . . I've decided to do a piece on "RIMS Innovations" for my BT column,
which will document and feature some of the newer ideas in RIMS designs. Micah
Millspaw is working up a detailed section on his sealed oil-bath RIMS heater,
and I'll be doing little sections on open grants, pipe grants, and using a
counterflow chiller as a RIMS heater. If you've got a particular RIMS
innovation that you'd like to see included and don't mind doing a little bit of
writing, please drop me a line . . . .
HBD Attitudes . . . for those who decry the occasionally hypertechnical tone of
this forum or some of its more recurrent posters, I'd ask you to recall a few
things. What was the source of most of our learning about first wort hopping?
How about no sparge brewing? HSA? LMDA? Where have most of the innovations in
RIMS brewing beyond Rodney Morris' original design debuted? Etc., etc., etc.
Granted, there've been some bloopers as well (the recurrent botulism and
aluminum brewpot threads spring to mind), but for the most part this forum is
*the* cutting edge of amateur brewing, as well as a phenomenal resource for
amateur brewers of all levels. And the reason for this, IMHO, is the
free-wheeling discussion of ideas and issues -- even those that are patently
half-baked.
Thus, besides reminding folks of the joys of using the "Page Down" key, I'd ask
everyone to recall the HBD Steering Committee's admonition (excerpted from the
official HBD Guidelines):
HBD readers *are* the HBD. They and the marketplace of
ideas -- not any person or committee -- are the ultimate
arbitrators of what beer and brewing related posts are
worthwhile and appropriate for the HBD.
However, the Steering Committee requests that HBD
contributors remember that this Digest, unlike a
USENET newsgroup, has limited bandwidth; i.e., the
digest is limited to a certain size each day. For
this reason, the Steering Committee gently asks
contributors to think carefully before posting
messages that most readers consider inappropriate
or of marginal utility, such as:
A. Personal diatribes or insults;
B. Complaints about a message being inappropriate
for the HBD (if it really bothers you, send the
"offending" party e-mail);
'Nuff said.
Louis K. Bonham
.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:49:50 -0500
From: "Raymond C. Steinhart" <rnr@popmail.mcs.net>
Subject: Steam Injec
Bill, In a typical RIM system, a heater is placed in line with the
pump so you can raise mash temperatures without scorching the wort.
You do not need to inject steam into the recirculating fluid to raise
temperature. You could create something like an immersion chiller to
push your steam through. If a RIM did not have an inline heater, it
would have a heater under the kettle or just below the screen in the
mash tun. The pump does a couple of things which are not related to
heating. It helps set the grain bed and it moves the wort over the
grain which I believe helps the enzyme activity as can be determined by
how quickly the starch's convert.
Ray Steinhart
--
My All Electric RIM Brewing System
"http://www.mcs.net/~rnr"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "William E. Steimle" <steimlew@holmes.uchastings.edu>
Subject: Replacement Glatt Gears
I know that the digest has been over this repeatedly, but I never paid
attention until I mangled my plastic glatt gears this weekend. Does
anyone know where I can find suitable (non-plastic) replacements. The
only place I remember from the digests was D J Manuf., but I understand
that their gears were quite different in design than the original
glatt's, and quite unworkable.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:25:16 -0700
From: Rob Vermeulen <rmv@hooked.net>
Subject: Thermoelectric Temperature Controller
Jaime wrote: I want to control my fermentation temperature in my
basement without
constant monitoring and switching of frozen jugs in the summer and (at
this
time) without a dedicated refrigerator (ales not lagers). Because I
have
converted kegs capable of batch sizes over 5 gallons, I did not want to
use 5
or 6 gallon buckets so I purchased a HDPE, FDA approved, white
Rubbermaid
Brute 10 gallon container (Cole-Palmer) as a fermentation vessel. This
way I
only need one temperature controlled fermentation system for batches up
to 8
gallons or so.
My idea is to get a plastic garbage can (32 gallons is a common
size),
place the 10 gallon fermentation vessel inside and fill up the garbage
can
with water to a level close to the fermentation vessel liquid level.
This
will increase the thermal inertia of the system (good I think) and allow
me to
leave my fermentation vessel undrilled. My basement is pretty cool in
the
summer (75F maximum) and not so cold in the winter (50F minimum). Even
with
the thermal inertia of the system, I am guessing that I will probably
experience temperature swings of at least 10F over the period of a
week. I
have been re-examining the specifications for thermoelectric coolers
(TEC).
These are solid state devices that can act as heat pumps with the
application
of a DC voltage. One side can be made hotter or cooler than the other
side by
applying a potential across the junction. One side will be thermally
coupled
to the water in the garbage can and the other side will be connected to
a
large aluminum heat sink outside the garbage can. An integrated circuit
temperature sensor (National Semiconductor LM34 or 35) can be used to
monitor
and control the temperature of the system (it puts out 10mV per F or
C). It
will be thermally conductive epoxied to the end of a bolt through the
garbage
can wall relatively close to the TEC. A DC voltage (determined by the
desired
temperature setpoint) from a 10 position switch or pot on the output of
a
voltage regulator can be summed with the output of this sensor and
multiplied
and fed to the input of a unity gain power amplifier chip (National
Semiconductor LM12). The input voltage to the power amp is from -150mV
to
+150mV (a range of 30F). The input voltage is 0.0 volts when the
temperature
is at the setpoint, positive when the temperature exceeds the setpoint
and
negative when the temperature is below the setpoint. The voltage
applied to
the TEC from the output of the LM12 will range from -12 volts to +12
volts.
The amount of heat added or removed from the side coupled to the garbage
can
will be proportional to the temperature difference. I think this system
will
be able to control the fermentation to within +/-2F for the whole year.
The
system also requires a standard 10 amp, 15 volt bipolar power supply.
Probable total parts cost is around $140 (surplus electronics stores).
Here are some questions:
-I could not find a reference to this specific TEC application and do
not want
to re-invent the wheel, has this been documented over the last few years
anywhere? They sell TEC coolers that run off your car battery, but I
don't
want to buy one (no fun), are the wrong shape and cannot heat.
-Based on my limited experience with aquarium coolers, I am guessing
that 30
to 50 watts should be adequate to shift the temperature of 15 gallons or
so
within the limited range that I will experience in my basement in a
reasonable
time, I don't think I will need to add or subtract more than about 10F.
Any
comments on this capacity, I can get units up to 80 watts. I could also
use
multiple units if necessary which may allow me to get down to lager
temperatures with adequate insulation.
-I will use a 1/4-20 3" bolt for mounting the temperature sensor. SS
or
brass? My guess is that the relatively low thermal conductivity of SS
will
still be adequate for this short distance from the liquid to the sensor,
any
guesses?
-Any guesses about how much heat is generated by primary fermentation
that
will add to my heat pumping requirements during cooling?
-I am hoping that liquid convection will be adequate for heat transfer
within
the garbage can. I guess I will mount it about 1 foot from the bottom
of the
can to get convection with cooling or heating. Any suggestions?
-I guess I will insulate the garbage can to maintain the setpoint
temperature and minimize power consumption as well. Any simple ideas
for
this?
-Some TEC vendors have a minimum order of $100. Anyone know who sells
these
units individually? If not, I may splurge and buy 4 or 5 and hope they
work!
The cooling of fermentations during warmer weather is similar to the
problems people with aquariums face during the summer months. Most
people who have problems with the temperature of their aquariums use
chillers if they need to drop the temperature a lot. A number have found
that the best way to drop the temperature a few degrees is to use a
small fan blowing across the surface of the water. In reading the posts
to the aquarium newsgroups, the subject of TEC's comes up occaisionally.
Drawbacks are: lack of efficiency, requiring the use of multiple units
and the heat they dump into room warming up the aquarium you are trying
to cool. By the time you buy a few TEC's and the required 12V power
supplies most people have spent what they would have for a chiller to
run their aquarium. I have yet to see a post from anyone who has had
good succes with TEC's in this application.
Using a water bath for the fermenter helps does help dampen out
temperature swings. If the water bath is not covered the evaporation
will also keep the temperature down. If you decide to use a fan you can
use a temperature controller to turn the fan on and off as needed.
Insulation of the water bath is a good idea to further minimize
temperature fluctuations. An added bonus is that if you need to heat the
water bath you can use a simple aquarium heater.
Rob Vermeulen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:34:58 +0200
From: Tom Alaerts <TomA@BUT.BE>
Subject: I finally tasted Anchor Steam Beer!
Here in Belgium, we have a large supply of local high-quality beers. But
it is far more difficult to find "special" beers from the rest of the
world.
During a day-trip to France, I entered a huge shopping center (mainly to
look for some French biere de garde), and there I discovered the much
revered Anchor Steam Beer!
It was frighteningly expensive: some $2.30 for a (nicely shaped) small
33cl bottle. But at last I could taste this completely original style...
My opinion as a spoiled Belgian: it is indeed very good. I have to admit
that I expected it would taste more "special" or "unique", but it was
really good. On a par with the best of Belgium's normal strength ales.
More bitterness than we usually drink, too.
Of course, I do not intend to ruin myself by driving regularly to France
and buying these expensive bottles, so I plan to homebrew my version...
So, if someone has a really really really close clone recipe using
extracts (I found many recipes on the net, but have no idea how close
they are), please send it to me!
Cheers,
Tom Alaerts (toma@but.be)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 07:03:54 -0400
From: oberlbk@NU.COM
Subject: M&F Premium
A few months back I had grabbed a very quick recipe for a Sam-Adam's-Alike
which used M&F Premium kit as its base. I had made it once, but due to
improper use of sterilizer the garbage disposal made quick work of the
batch. However, tasting through all of the nasty bacteria flavors, I could
tell there was a Sammy flavor hiding in the background.
I went to my local homebrew store last week to get the same can of extract.
He claims that they no longer make the can called "Premium" and that it is
now called "Premium Bitter". Does anyone know if they are indeed the same?
I made the recipe using the Premium Bitter can, but the batch is for a
party and I cannot wait until the batch is complete to find out I used the
wrong thing.
Private emails work for me: oberlbk@nu.com
Thanks again,
Brent Oberlin
East Hampton, CT
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:12:48 +0000
From: Ed Choromanski <choroman@voicenet.com>
Subject: Just a couple of questions..
Hi All:
(Let me start out by saying, I am looking for info and really hope I do not
start any debate about the feedback I recieve.)
I am new to brewing (7 batches total) and for a variety of reasons I have
gravitated to brewing all grains (4 of 7 batches). I have read Miller's
"Homebrewing Guide", Snyder's "The Brewmaster's Bible" (not to say these are the
best book but I did get something out of them) and, of course, HBD. So far I am
please with my beers, especially a Belgian Dubbel I recently did for family
birthday party. I am always looking to improve my brewing (from the standpoint
of knowledge - my setup is simple but that will improve in time) and have two
questions that I cannot find an answer to and would like to ask the collective:
1. What is the correct ratio of water to grain for mashing? I have read that
this can
vary from 0.5 qts/lbs to 2.5 qts/lbs. Why the range? Is the ratio dependent on
the beer style? If so, what styles have what ranges? Or is it to do with the
mashing temps? Or is there other issue(s)?
2. I have been doing single infusion mashing so far but I have read about step
mashing. What can I do / What do I gain with step mashing? My reading does not
have a lot of details on the benifits and leaves me wondering about this. Do I
need to have the lot sheet for my malts to get the most benifit from step
mashing? Is step mashing for the high-end brewers?
I have one last question and it is regarding my setup.
3. I have a 10 gal. pot and I would like to put a false bottom into. The
problem is that if I solder the copper tubing, I will be unable to remove the
false bottom
for cleaning. How have other false bottom users solved this problem?
Thanks in advance,
Ed
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:47:22 -0400
From: Rod Schaffter <schaffte@delanet.com>
Subject: Bandwidth
Paul Niebergall writes :
>There*s that bandwidth thing again. Can somebody please explain to me why
>it is that when someone doesn*t like what you are saying, they accuse you
>of *wasting bandwidth*. Is bandwidth a commodity or something? I have
>never quite understood this.
This is a throwback to when we all downloaded these lists over 2400 bps
(and 300 bps!) modems, and server storage space was in the hundreds of
dollars per megabyte range. Thus unnecessary messages _WERE_ a waste
of time and money. Now the whole Digest probably uses less bandwidth
than a single animated banner ad, so there will be no apologies from
me.;-)
Cheers!
Rod Schaffter
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 06:03:25 +0100
From: Brian Dixon <mutex@proaxis.com>
Subject: AD: Free brewer's unit conversion software-UPDATED
Thank you to those who downloaded versions 1.1 or 1.2. Just giving you and
others a quick heads-up that I've upgraded the software, and v1.3 is now
available. I added the following units: US Ounces (avoirdupois), UK
Ounces, UK Stone, UK Quarters, and US Quarters. Also added to the help
system. If you're interested, here's the web site where you can read more
about it:
http://www.proaxis.com/~mutex
Thanks,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:33:56 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman@unisys.com>
Subject: Candi sugar
Scott Nichols says "Sugar is also used because Belgian ales are hopped
with aged hops
resulting in a less bitter beer. If you used all malt the resulting beer
would be too sweet."
While lambics do in fact use aged hops, this is not true of Belgian ales
in general, specifically the strong ales which would typically be the
beneficiary of candi sugar. As to the use of candi sugar, Scott is
correct in providing higher alcohol without increasing the body. The
alcohols themselves have flavor so even a tripel's flavor profile is
altered by the addition of light candi sugar. Amber or dark candi sugar
will have undergone some caramelization so that they do lend some
flavors themselves in addition to that created by the resulting
alcohols.
Dave Houseman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:07:02 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew@compuserve.com>
Subject: question of respiration
There has been a growing trend to say that yeast do not respire in
brewer's
wort.Someone must have a unique definition of "respiration." I checked 2
references for the exactly what is respiration and found the following:
from "New Gould Medical Dictionary" -"The interchange of gases of the
living and the gases of the medium in which they live, through any
channel,
as in cutaneous respiration"
from "Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary"- "2. biol. a. the
sum
total of the physical and chemical processes in an organism by which
oxygen
and carbohydrates are assimilated into the system and the oxidation
products, carbon dioxide and water are given off."
So by definition 1 the utilization of oxygen for the biosynthesis of
sterols is respiration. By definition 2 the anaerobic fermentation of
glucose is still respiration.
Authorities should try to be more specific in their language to avoid
making it even more difficult to come to the truth of the matter. To
simply
state "Yeast do not respire in wort" is in error.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 98 07:43 PDT
From: caburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: Keg to Kettle Conversion Question
Got the 1/2 barrel kegs cut, nipples and couplers welded. Do I use teflon
tape when screwing the stainless ball valve to the stainless nipple or will
it melt when I fire up the kettle? If not teflon tape, is there something
else I should use in that joint?
Charley (ready for a bigger batch) in N. Cal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:42:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize@ns1.imagin.net>
Subject: Welcome, new posters!
I'd like to welcome the following posters in HBD 2747, who haven't posted
here before (at least not this year): Jaime in the Santa Cruz Mountains
(Poris), Ed Krach, Bill (MrWES), Thomas Lowry, and Doug Kerfoot. Let's
see: a detailed techno-experience with questions, some good questions and
ideas, philosophy and humor! Keep 'em coming, guys! Sorry that I don't
know about oxygen tanks -- I hope we see the answer on the digest soon.
Best,
Sam Mize
- --
Samuel Mize -- smize@imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:46:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize@ns1.imagin.net>
Subject: rapid chill, mammoths, homebrew or not, eisbock and US law
> From: "S. Wesley" <sWesley@maine.maine.edu>
> In my experience rapid chilling
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now THAT's "advice" Simon can depend on for his own system!
Great letter, Simon, thanks much for sharing your experiences. I know
many of us here would love to be involved in building a commercial brewery.
- - - - - - - - - -
> Dan Ritter <ritter@bitterroot.net>
> Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Hamilton, Montana
How much mammoth do you use per batch? (How do you make an elephant float?)
- - - - - - - - - -
> From: Thomas Lowry <lowry@me.pdx.edu>
> Subject: When is Homebrew not Homebrew?
> I am interested is hearing how we, as homebrewers define ourselves
Personally, I'd say if it's brewed at home and not for sale, it's homebrew.
That's a definition that some contests have used, to allow for the private
work of professional guys like Jethro and George Fix. However, this does
put a small homebrewer at a disadvantage compared to someone with analytical
lab equipment and professional experience.
- - - - - - - - - -
> From: "Brad McMahon" <brad@sa.apana.org.au>
> Subject: Eisbock's
> No, I haven't, but if you do, be very careful who you tell.
> In the U.S. (and most places around the world) distillation
> by fractional crystallization is illegal.
>
> Specifically for you, it is defined in 26 U.S.C. 5002(a)(80)(A).
And the original poster was, indeed, talking about removing a lot
of the water.
> Which poses the question: Why is it an official
> AHA catagory if it is illegal to make?
Well, there are two kinds of Eisbock or ice beer (I think Eisbock
traditionally refers only to one, but I don't recall which). Some
are frozen to concentrate them. Some ice beers are slightly frozen,
then filtered -- the ice crystals form first around little impurities,
which are then filtered out. As long as you remove less than half a
percent of the volume, the US ATF doesn't consider it to be illegally
concentrating the beer.
There was a ruling from the ATF posted on HBD a year or two ago,
and I think that posting is in the library at the Brewery web site
(http://www.brewery.org).
I agree with your central point. I personally wouldn't post info
that suggested I was doing something illegal (even if I were, which
I'm not, so I can't, and I wouldn't, honestly officer).
Best,
Sam Mize
- --
Samuel Mize -- smize@imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:56:36 -0500
From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat@wwa.com>
Subject: Re: When is Homebrew not Homebrew?
Thomas Lowry Wrote:
SNIP!
>We were speaking specifically of a
>mutual acquaintance who, in our minds, has taken his homebrew 'hobby' to
>another level with the purchase of thousands of dollars of professional
>equipment (it was a great bargain for him though).
All the brew equipment in the world can not give a brewer an advantage. Sure
great equipment may look nice and make things easier but in the end it is
the Brewer that makes the difference not the equipment. I have played guitar
professionally most of my adult life and have thousands and thousands of $$$
worth of guitars and amps and rack mount gear... None of it makes me play
any better but it sure looks nice.
As long as the Beer is brewed at home it is homebrewing. I have the ability
now to brew more beer in a single brewing session than most homebrewers can
in 5-7 brew sessions and I still consider myself a "Homebrewer" although
maybe "twisted freak brewer" would fit better.
Thomas Lowry Wrote:
>3. If I invest 'X' amount of dollars (fill in the blank), I cease to be a
>homebrewer.
hmmm nobody ever questions a guy putting $$$ into a Harley or an old car...
Part of our hobby and having a hobby is dumping all our cash and free time
into it... usually much to our spouses dismay.
Thomas Lowry Wrote:
>4. If I invest 'X' amount of time (same here), I cease to be a homebrewer.
This just sounds screwy... is this to say that anyone that spends more time
than you or me brewing can no longer be a Homebrewer?
Thomas Lowry Wrote:
>5. If I sell (legal or not) my beer, I am no longer a homebrewer.
What about bartering...? what about donating..?
Thomas Lowry Wrote:
>So with questions like this, how do we define homebrew and homebrewing?
>I am interested is hearing how we, as homebrewers define ourselves, not
>the legal definition of homebrew.
Homebrewing to me is about many different things. Mostly it means Brewing my
own beer on my own equipment at home. It also means enjoying drinking it and
kegging it and then there is the tinkering aspect.
I am definatley out of control when it comes to equipment. I have spent a
good amount of cash and have several 3 tier half barrel sanke type setups
and a full 55 gallon 3 tier setup? Am I now excluded from being a Homebrewer
cuz I gots mo Stuffs?
I don't sell my brew. I stay within the legal limits of production. I brew
alot. I buy grain buy the bag, hops by the pound, LP 3 tanks at a time. I
own a gaggle of LP burners and several of just about everything else. I have
been brewing for a long time... I am obsessed! I love brewing... I am a
Homebrewer! just like you.
All of this ultimately doesn't mean a damn thing unless I enjoy doing it.
Hobbies hit people in many many ways. I don't know if I answered your
question but I definately confused my self!
C'ya!
-Scott "Brew Plaid Or Die!" Abene
##############################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com> #
# http://www.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page)#
# #
# "The More I know About Beer, The More I Don't Need The AHA"#
##############################################################
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:00:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <demonick@zgi.com>
Subject: Yeast Ranching
Kyle Druey <druey@ibm.net> asks 3 yeast questions:
> Usually some condensation forms on the inside of a culture tube ...
No, the condensation poses no problem.
> After innoculating the slant, my yeast form little white pin dots.
This is the way that yeast grows on a surface. Generally single cells
reproduce and give rise to colonies (white pin dots) of clones in which
every cell is genetically identical. Eventually the colonies grow large
enough to grow together into a lumpy mat.
Having individual colonies rather than a lawn lets one examine the gross
colony morphology for abnormalities, and then these colonies can be
avoided during propagation. They can also be a curse since they represent
a single genetic makeup. Choosing the wrong colony for propagation can
lead to a change in the yeast characteristics. I general choose 5 or more
good looking colonies and mix them when I propagate.
Yeast colonies are opaque white and pointed in the middle. Generally,
bacterial contamination forms clear flat smaller colonies, and mold is
fuzzy, and dark.
> When I opened the culture tube the yeast smelled terrible ...
"Terrible" is not a terribly descriptive term. What smells "terrible" to
you may smell like healthy yeast to me. You may also be smelling a
combination of the yeast and media. For an example yeast smell rehydrate
a package of dried baker's yeast and smell. For an example of your media
smell, sacrifice a new tube and stick your nose in it and smell.
Usually you can see contamination before you can smell it. Once you can
smell contamination in a slant or plate, the contamination is readily
apparent visually.
Cheers. I hope some of this helps.
Domenick Venezia demonick at zgi dot com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: sour brew/AOB bashing
In HBD #2745 (June 20, 1998), Al Korzonas wrote:
>>>>>
[snip]
I just got off the phone with a HB supply shop owner... no doubt
you know about the fire sale Brewers Publications had on the Beer
Style Series books. I just learned from this shop owner that
these incredible prices were not made available to homebrew shops
and now customers are coming in saying: "$11.95!? I just bought
four of these for $3.95 each at a bookstore!"
I've defended the AOB on other things, but to slap the backbone of
the homebrewing industry like this, (in my opinion) stinks.
[snip]
<<<<<
Apparently there are more than a few shop owners who are incredibly
pissed off about this (and I don't blame them in the least). I know of
one shop owner who has vowed never again to carry a style series book
once the current stock sells out. I believe that there was also
discussion about this at the recent Home Beer and Wine Trade
Association (or whatever the offical name is) convention, and it
sounds like many other shop owners have decided to take similar action.
Not only does Brewers Publications' decision stink, it exhibits a
complete lack (or worse, disregard) of business sense. I would hazard
a guess that very few of the style series books would have ever sold
if it hadn't been for their availability through hombrew shops. To
ignore that market by offering a steep discount to a mass retailer
that has no connection with and no concern for the hombrewing hobby is
just plain stupid. This one step virtually guarantees that not only
will Brewers Publications have had trouble selling previous style
series books (at least I'm assuming they did, since they're unloading
them), they will assuredly have trouble selling them in the future.
-Steve in Indianapolis
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:34:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Ward <paulw@doc.state.vt.us>
Subject: Citrus Notes - followup
Last week I asked how to get a grapefruity/citrusy character in pale
ales (IPA's actually). I received a lot of responses to this one -
seems that there are many other people who like this profile in a
pale ale. I was kind of surprised at some of the recommendations as
they are nothing like what the hop advertisements describe.
In a nutshell:
Bayard Wenzel, Chris Tbach and John LeClair suggest Cascade (as
expected - although John says to use LOTS of it...up to 6 ounces at
knockout and dryhop with 3 ounces in a 5 gallon batch).
Brad Johnson, Joel Plutchak, and Barry Wertheimer say that Chinook is
the secret to Citrus flavors & aromas.
Gordon Strong and Robert Dittmar were able to get the grapefruit
taste using Columbus
Richard Seyler uses a blend of Centennial and Domestic Goldings
(isn't that Fuggles?)
Brad Sevetson uses Domestic Northern Brewer to get the profile.
It would appear that there's a lot of ways to get there from here. I
was surprised about the Chinook and Columbus suggestions, and I never
even knew there was a domestic Northern Brewer
Jeff Renner gave a great suggestion - ask the brewer. This would
prove a little difficult right now, my wife has stripped me of all
beer bullets, and there might be a federal regulation against ever
possessing any in the future!
A word to the wise, gentlemen - if your S.O. ever is feeling amorous
on a Sunday afternoon and invites you to the bedroom *NEVER* utter
the phrase, "hold that mood honey, it's time to start sparging."
Sigh.
Paul in Vermont
paulw@doc.state.vt.us
- --
According to government height/weight charts,
I'm seven and a half feet tall.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:45:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: EstroHops
Greetings. This week's Science News contains an article on research into
herbal-based remedies for menopause-related hot flashes. Specifically,
they were looking at the ability of various naturally-derived substances
to bind the receptor for the hormone estrogen, the decline of which is
thought to underlie the symptoms associated with menopause. Here's an
interesting excerpt: "Hops also showed estrogenlike binding, and so might
mimic the hormone, a finding that fits with folklore about hops workers,
she added. Men who worked in the hop fields were said to suffer from a
lackluster libido, whereas female field hands were said to be sexy."
Hmmmmmm OK guys, how many of you hop heads have experienced a loss of your
sex drive? I suppose the logical solution is to include some ground up
Viagra tablets when priming heavilly hopped beers.
If all those male hopfield workers were suffering from a lack of libido
then who was finding all those female workers "sexy?"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"Graduate school is the snooze button on the alarm clock of life."
-Jim Squire
-Alan Meeker
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Dept. of Urology
(410) 614-4974
__________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:49:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Arguello <robertac@calweb.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Ranching Questions
Kyle Druey had some questions to the collective regarding yeast culturing.
>1) Usually some condensation forms on the inside of a culture tube
>after it has been sterilized, filled with sterile media, cooled, capped,
>then placed into the fridge to solidify (this is all before innoculating
>with yeast). Does this pose any problems?
It shouldn't. I haven't noticed much condensation in my slants but I have
plenty in my petri dishes. The liquid (condensate) is sterile (or should be)
so I store my petri dish cultures upside down to minimize contact with the
liquified condensate to prevent softening of the agar.
>2) After innoculating the slant, most of my yeast form little white pin
>dots. These dots expand until they grow into each other, but the yeast
>never form a consistent while layer. Is my yeast ruined?
No, but a question arises. What are you using for growth medium? I use agar
and sterile wort.
>3) I just recultured some 6 month old slants. When I opened the
>culture tube the yeast smelled terrible (hey Fouch, know anything about
>bad yeasty type smells?). I decided to use this to innoculate anyway.
>Is my yeast ruined?
Probably not, but you'll know soon enough. Make a starter. I like to
"re-culture" onto a petri dish. That way I can visually "plate" the colonies
and check on the yeasts viability. I use cells from the best colonies to
innoculate new slants.
"All In A Day's Wort"
Robert Arguello <robertac@calweb.com>
CORNY KEGS FOR SALE! $12.00 each
http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/keg.htm
ProMash Brewers' Software - http://www/calweb.com/~robertac/promash
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:33:52 -0400
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreidenbach@nctm.org>
Subject: Re: When is Homebrew not Homebrew
Good question, Tom. Never really thought about it much, but in MY
opinion, a home brewer is one who brews beer at home for private
consumption (i.e., not sold). Going to a friend's home to brew is the
same thing, to me. I've never done the U-Brew type thing, but from all
reports I've heard and read, it's a bit of a stretch to call it home
brewing.
- --Danny
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:35:30 -0400
From: Danny Breidenbach <dbreidenbach@nctm.org>
Subject: Yeasts for summer
What yeast do you people recommend for brewing ales in the summer. I'm
looking at ambient temps fairly stable around 70 deg. F, and I'm looking
for a fairly clean finishing yeast at such a temp. Suggestions?
- --Danny
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:33:21 PDT
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos@hotmail.com>
Subject: Bung size for Mini-kegs?
Hi all,
I was just finishing force-carbonating a batch of stout and I intend to
counter pressure fill one or two mini-kegs(I got them second-hand from
Spencer Thomas, who so kindly let me sample his excellent brews when I
visited him and family about a month ago, thanks Spencer!) so that it
would be a little more portable than a corny.
I will need to get a bung to fit the 7/8 inch hole in the mini-keg in
order to fill it with the CP filler. Does anyone know the bung
size/number for this diameter?
Thanks,
Greg Soh
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:43:44 -0700
From: Kelly Jones <kejones@ptdcs2.ra.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Really big batches
"S. Wesley" <sWesley@maine.maine.edu> wrote:
> I have been helping a friend of mine who has limited financial
> resources start a brewery here in Maine. We just bought him a plot of
> land and hope to start construction on his Brewery/House towards the
> end of the summer. The idea is to make it so that he gets both his
> residential and commercial space for the price of a normal mortgage
> payment. (This will not violate local zoning laws)
But, last time I checked, it will violate BATF regulations. You'd be
better off if you had the BATF, or a consultant familiar with BATF regs,
approve all your plans before groundbreaking. Could save a lot of
trouble!
Kelly
Hillsboro, OR
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:03:28 -0400
From: "Tkach, Christopher" <tkach@cabletron.com>
Subject: Re: Citrus Notes
Paul-
I'm sure that Longtrail doesn't do this, but I brewed an
Old Ale that had a strong grapefruit flavor to it when it
was young, and I attribute it to first wort hopping (FWH)
with Cascade. I think (my notes are at home) I used
2 oz of Cascade FWH'd, and bittered with Centennial and
(gasp!) Chinook. The beer had a strong grapefruit flavor
at bottling that (slowly) dissipated with age. Try searching
the archives around October - December of last year for
'grapefruit' for more info, but you are right, I'm sure the
grapefruit flavor can be attributed to Centennial and/or
Cascade hops.
- Chris
Dover, NH
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 98 12:42 PDT
From: caburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charley Burns)
Subject: Re: Styrofoam working tip
Ken Schwartz writes:
Dr. Pivo offers some good advice for working with Styrofoam. He
suggests gluing with tile adhesive, great idea. My experience with
building Chillers has been using "Liquid Nails", which I think would be
much cheaper and doesn't "dissolve" the Styrofoam like the other glues
he mentioned to avoid. Also, cutting the material can be tricky, even
with a knife, if you're trying to get straight, square edges.
<snip>
I built a modified Ken Schwartz son-of-fermentation-chiller last year and
can attest to the difficulty (and importance) of making square straight
cuts. I used a small hand saw after first very carefully marking a thick
line with a large felt tip magic marker. Then I clamped (with c-clamps) 1x2"
slats along one side of the cut, both top and bottom. I used them as a
"guide" for the hand saw. Didn't come out perfect, but close enough that it
was easy to seal up the edges.
I also used liquid nails (less than $1 for project).
Charley (chillin my lagers) in N.Cal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:50:24 -0600
From: "Grow, Roger H" <GrowRH@LOUISVILLE.STORTEK.COM>
Subject: re: mashfest '98
Well Ted, good damned luck getting anything back getting anything back
from the Mashfest. I'm still waiting for my scoresheets from '97. There
are at least three people I know about who never received results from
last year, and my friend John and myself won ribbons and prizes and
didn't receive squat! We sent the Mashtongues MANY emails asking for an
answer to no avail. Most of my emails were ignored, but the ones that
did get replies produced no results.
This year I decided to give them one last chance to clear the slate. I
sent one last email to multiple club members asking them to look for my
results as they were planning the '98 event. No Reply. Needless to say,
I did not enter this year, and have no plans to enter in the future.
Hopefully the MCAB will do a better job screening the qualifying events
next year and choose a more reliable site.
Opinionated today,
Roger
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------
In Homebrew Digest #2745 Ted Hull writes:
Subject: mashfest '98
Hey folks:
I've been trying to get scoresheets back from this MCAB QE for 6 weeks
now.
My understanding is that awards have been posted on the Web and passed
out,
but that no one has received scoresheets in the mail. I checked by
e-mail
with Dr. Fix, b/c he won the category I entered.
I know Louis Bonham has been busy with other MCAB issues lately, but
I've
never gotten a response from Scott Mills with the Mash Tongues.
At least some form of explanation would be wonderful. Yes, I'm peeved
about
taking pains to get my entry there quickly (Fedex) and paying the entry
fee
without getting the feedback. But I'm almost to the point of utter
hopelessness about seeing these in the mail.
Help!
Ted Hull
Atlanta, GA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:51:48 -0500
From: David Rinker <drinker@mci2000.com>
Subject: Illegality of Eisbock??
<<In the U.S. (and most places around the world) distillation
by fractional crystallization is illegal.>>
OK, has anyone ever ascertained if this is process is *really*
illegal--the poster admitted that he took his information from a
secondary source.
Why do I ask? Welt, in my home state (VA) distilled liquor cannot be
sold in any other store than a state-liscenced and run ABC store. Since
Eisbock is readily available in supermarkets and other stores, it seems
that VA's ABC board doesn't regard Eisbock as a distilled product.
Under what classification is it imported into the US? I can't believe
the "Tax Man" would miss any opportunity to line his pockets...
Just curious,
David
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2749, 06/25/98
*************************************
-------
