Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #2740
HOMEBREW Digest #2740 Mon 15 June 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
AHA (lee gross)
Indian Chai beer (michael w bardallis)
Dextrins and Head Retention ("Scott Nichols")
Re: MCAB rule interpretation (Spencer W Thomas)
The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
Poppet Valves (Russ Kruska)
Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry? (Alan Folsom)
Briess Data Point ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
MCAB at BHC (717) 787-4973" <BENDER.RODNEY@a1.pader.gov>
Grabbing the good rate (fridge)
Polyclar use specifics (James Tomlinson)
Easy Chiller (Jeff Renner)
Hops Bines (EFOUCH)
Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry (bthumm)
Re: How to assess recipe quality? (bthumm)
When to spice a Wit (Bob.Sutton)
Re: Recognition for uncommon kindness (OCaball299)
1) Cellar temp again (Tim Burkhart)
RE: cooling isn't cool? (John Wilkinson)
Re: Sluggish ferment w/ Chimay yeast (from Dean Fikar)/Lambics (from Jason Gorman) ("Gregory A. Lorton")
Cleaning your nightmare (John Palmer)
Yeast Refinement ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
BUZZ's Buzz-Off competition is June 27-28. Information is available at
www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff or via R. Mattie at
rpmattie@voicenet.com.
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org.
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery@hbd.org
Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org
Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:
Anonymous ftp from...
ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
AFS users can find it under...
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:07:13 -0400
From: lee gross <egross@emory.edu>
Subject: AHA
I think that Raymond Johnson guy has now pissed me off enough for
me to join the fray. He seems rather expert at making the baby crying
noises of his last post's subject line. Maybe he should ask his wife to
change his diaper and then he wouldn't be so cranky. He seemed more
offended that his words brought George DePiro into the discussion,than
actually addressing George's points. I agrre with George, I think it's
legitimate to criticize an organization or the paid personnel of that
organization if they fail to do the job they are paid to do, especially for
repeated offenses. The AHA charges alot and alot of us think we are not
getting our money's worth.If AHA people are your friends, that's great, but
remember your bias. As for my bias,I am not completely anti-AHA, but I'm
getting there. I am still waiting for a ribbon or certificate for my second
place finish in the last Mead Magic Club Only competition, I've asked a
million ways,the response is none or extremely slow, and always it's blamed
on previous AHA employees and they'll get it to me asap, yet it's been
greater than a year. My club may have paid the fee but I want my
certificate.
This will be news to most of you, but the AHA run NHC this year was
hell for those of us working the SOUTHEAST competition as well. It took us
4 days of near continuous judging to finish the 547 or so beers.We had a
hard time drawing judges and stewards, unlike last year when we had an
overflow crowd. True, many of the addresses supplied by the AHA, through
the BJCP I guess, were incorrect, and the mailings were sent out late, but
everyone who gets Zymurgy or entered last year got a flyer, so yall know
when the competition is, no need for engraved perfumed invitations.(All
judges please update your addresses with the BJCP). Our club is not
overflowing with money, and the AHA is rather slow paying back the club or
those who personally wrote checks. Among the petty problems:there were not
enough cups sent just like last year,unexpectedly we had to print up all
the forms, style sheets, etc ourselves this year and I heard some whining
because there were no tshirts this year for the workers, just a free entry
to next years NHC. Just alot of work for only a few. It was sort of a
thankless job, but our club, the Covert Hops Society managed to pull it off
and we are proud of ourselves. Regardless, all those involved in the
organization and running of the Southeast NHC this year REFUSE to do it
next year. Find another club to host, we are burnt out.
So, what does this have to do with the AHA? Well, our club also
provided alot of the stewards for the World Beer Cup prior to the
microbrewers conference in Atlanta in April. Technically, this competition
was not run by the AHA, but some offshoot of the AOB. I suspect that the
offshoot is just to provide a fancy job description for someone and to
deflect blame. Let's just say the AHA employees and associates had a large
presence, and were effectively the managers if the volunteers had
questions. Stewards worked 8 to 5 Friday and Saturday, and were invited to
the party for the judges at the competitions end. Rather unceremoniously,
stewards were uninvited just as the competition ended. Supposedly to save
money b/c there wouldn't be enough food ( there was lots of food left ).Now
Brian Rezac tried to get us reinvited and some of us who were most angered
were told to go anyway, but really a bunch of us decided to go regardless
because that was our reward for taking time from work and family as
published in our stewarding handouts, plus it's our town and our friends at
the microbrewery hosting the party.Now Brian is a nice guy, and he even
bought me a beer at the brewpub a few of us went to prior to the party but
I can't be bought that easily, it takes at least 2 beers :) Some of those
flown in from Colorado actually wanted the locals to drive them to the
party and then leave.I think some club members were abit soured by that
experience, the wounds were too fresh for another AOB/ AHA event the next
month.
Lately in general it's been difficult to recruit people to judge
and steward, and we have been getting a greater number of no shows. People
want something for the work they do, they don't want to be used for labor
and then discarded. Whether it makes it to their profit sheet or not, the
AHA takes alot of money for these contests and receives alot of free labor.
The locals are overworked and generally feel underpaid.Intuitively I know
there's money being made using local labor and alot of BJCP judges. True,
I'll get judging points FROM THE BJCP, and I've received an engraved bottle
opener that doubles as a weapon and a gift certificate for my
organizational labor in the past, but most people working these events
don't get squat from the AHA/AOB.
The trend aspect of homebrewing is in decline, (hopefully cigars
will also) and let's be honest, Zymurgy sucks lately.Most of the articles
are not very well done or informative, maybe it's there just for ad revenue
like some of the fashion mags.I hear besides declining membership the AHA
is actually decreasing employee number, Charlie only wants Brian and the
lady who disinvited us to run the whole thing, but that's just rumor. I
think they need more employees because they appear overworked for the
events and other stuff they do all year.I am not too happy with Charlie I'd
be the first to admit. During the WBC he or some other judge who also just
happens to make AHA/AOB employees become quickly obsequious and
deferrential didn't like that I joked a tiny bit with one of the judges at
my table (Charlie's at that same table but I'm not serving his group)
while the rather relaxed judging was going on, and while I had nothing to
do and so a long chain of people were whispered to and eventually I was
given alittle talking to, although no-one spoke to the judge I laughed
with, cause he was still making me laugh the rest of the session. What I
didn't like is that I was treated like a child and not a grown woman, and
wasn't told nicely but directly, and most of all, I got the same feeling as
when I was told to kiss the Bishop's ring at my conformation: repulsion.
Everybody kisses Charlie's ring like they have to or like they are
supposed to because they see other people doing it, not because they enjoy
it. Sounds like a corporate culture in serious need of a
decontamination,maybe not a purging. Let's be honest again, Charlie runs
the show, poorly, and even if Jesus and His Pals worked there they couldn't
with all their great personalitiies and nice guyness overcome the malaise
of the membership unless some VISIBLE and POSITIVE changes are made. As
members we have a right to voice our disappointments. As members we could
individually not renew by putting the renewal notices in the circular file,
but our voice appears to be louder on this forum, and we want an
organization to further homebrewing, run competitions and send us a
magazine with more than reader culled recipes. We want the AHA to do it's
stated job better,and we are paying them to do that job.Is resistence
futile, is Charlie like Castro, will we have to wait for him to expire for
real change? I don't know, but past achievements can't be used to cover
your ass forever. Lee (sorry for the long post, it makes up for a long
period of lurking)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:57:19 -0400
From: dbgrowler@juno.com (michael w bardallis)
Subject: Indian Chai beer
*Dave Johnson asks about my friend Rezac's spiced beer recipe*
The recipe is published in "A Year of Beer" (Brewers Publications).
Mike Bardallis
Allen Park, MI
Deutsch Pils, Scottish Export, and Bob's Steam (guest beer) currently on
tap. Large selection in bottles.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:44:01 -0600
From: "Scott Nichols" <snichols@digitech.com>
Subject: Dextrins and Head Retention
>In HBD 2734 Al Korzonas says:
>Scott writes that dextrins can contribute to head retention. I'm a tad
skeptical.
>Where did you read this Scott? I know they can contribute somewhat to
>the body and mouthfeel of the beer, but head retention?
Hubert Hanghoefer agrees with Al in HBD 2737.
I believe Scott is right when he states that dextrins can contribute to
head retention. Meilgaard writes in Chapter 6 of The Practical Brewer, "It
is said that the alpha glucans are important for foam, body, and CO2
retention", he later continues, "Beer foam appears to be caused mainly by
neutral "proteins" above 12,000 MW associated with carbohydrates and with
hops bitter substances." Recall alpha glucans are also called dextrins.
I would also believe the nice head you see sitting on top of a Belgian Ale
is supplied by the addition of sugar as an adjunct.
Regards,
Scott Nichols
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 01:13:11 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: MCAB rule interpretation
>>>>> "Samuel" == Samuel Mize <smize@prime.imagin.net> writes:
Samuel> The other method that Mr. Bonham described seems more
Samuel> intuitive: "the highest placing QS beer in the larger
Samuel> ribbon category is certified as the MCAB qualifying beer."
Samuel> One obvious problem is that most competitions don't rank
Samuel> more than the top three or four in a category. What if
Samuel> none of these is in the MCAB sub-category?
This one is actually easy. The judges are instructed that, in the
event that no (dry stout) makes the top 3, they should select the best
(dry stout), as well. If there is a second round, each flight in the
first round should forward at least one (dry stout) to the second
round.
There, that wasn't so hard, was it?
=Spencer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:35:58 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer@ames.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report
The Jethro Gump Report
AHA/Rezac/Comp's...
FOR THE RECORD....My only intent was to state my opinion that I didn't
believe that the whole affair could lie @ the feet of any one
individual....and when that individual was not only well known to me, but
also away from the fray for a fortnight....I felt the urge to step up to the
podium....
I have never had any intention of publicly slamming any individual or
organization, though those of you who have received my private e-mails will
realize that while I do have opinions on some matters, I have tried to be
fair and prudent on the public domains. (And fully expect my private
communications to remain that way. God knows I have deleted more than I have
sent.)
BUT, being aware of dissention from within the HB community towards the
AHA, and honestly, not being able to disagree that there are some issues
that could have, and SHOULD have been handled differently...
I still gotta say..
I started with NCJOHB, and had that come full circle when Charlie Papazian
hung the Gold for Barleywine @ GABF '96 around my neck. I am as proud today,
as I was then, for all that the AOB/AHA/IBS organization has done for me,
even when they DIDN'T know me....
(You may, or may not, be surprised to hear that there is also a degree of
dissention within the ranks of the IBS, the pro-brewers org.)
I have not come to bury, nor praise Caesar. Just telling it as I have seen
it. And as I have seen it....Brian deserves my support...maybe yours too...
No, I don't have the full story on the competition judging...though I hope
that over the next few days, I might still learn more, and maybe be enough
of a jerk to annoy some folks to get back together...
I am certain that the whole story resembles a 360 degree circle, and while
some individuals may have any number of degrees of completion of the circle
as personal knowledge, and while many of those degrees may overlap, NO ONE @
this point has all 360.
I am also certain that if only just a few apologies were made, from 'both'
sides of the fence, we could move on.
It is obvious that many folks have come away from this affair with less
than the joy that we expect from the 'hopeful' outcome of brewers getting
together with other brewers....and while there remains work to be done, I
fully expect that there are those that @ this point wish to step up and get
what needs to be done....done.
Those hopeful brewers, as I have been on @ least one occasion, when
entering a contest, deserve the best that we, the HOMEBREW COMMUNITY, can
give them. Please, let's get their desires accomodated, if not our own.
When THAT is done, we can get back to our regularly scheduled programme..
And Now For Something Completely Different!!!
"FAREWELL, AUNTY JACK, WE KNOW YOU'LL BE BACK...."
Sorry....must have been the Pride of Ringwood aroma!
New AHA Director Appointed....
Paul Gatzo, proprietor of the Boulder, Colorado, homebrew shop, "What's
Brewing," has been appointed to the position of AHA Director, effective in
about 6 weeks, Jethro's southeastern correspondent reports.....
You read it here first.......on the Jethro Gump Report!
Jethro welcomes Paul aboard, and wishes him the best in his new position. I
can guarantee one thing, he has a damn fine staff.
The Practical Brewer....
I have been in contact with Mary @ MBAA on this, and she sends her
apologies...
But, as the next edition is due by the end of the year, and the last sale
of the Practical Brewer @ the recent convention sold for 20 bucks, and as
Mary sez...it can only get less expensive as time goes on...
Anyhoo, I'm waiting to hear from Connie Hanner, senior administrator for
the MBAA, on where to get the current edition....
When I know, so shall you...
Starkbier/Porter..
Court Avenue Brewing Company's Head Brewer, Steve Zimmerman, has recently
made not only a pretty fine brew, but has also allowed me to share it with
you....
This is for a 8.5 BBL batch...scale it as you see fit....
Malt..
350 lbs Schreier 2 row
75 lbs Schreier Caramel 60
50 lbs DWC Caramel Pils
25 lbs DWC Chocolate
25 lbs DWC Special B
6 lbs DWC Black Malt
Mash..
@ 67 C for 60/60
Hops..
27 US Oz Chinook (12.7 alpha) 90/60
20 US Oz Kent Goldings (6.7 alpha) 15/60
20 US Oz Kent Goldings (6.7 alpha) Beginning of Whirlpool
Yeast..
Wyeast 1742 Swedish Ale @ 23 C..(Give me an 'E', ESTER!)
A fine beer, to my taste. But what the hell do I know?
Scott Abene..
What's the deal with your server?? Can't get a word in edgewise...
Jethro Gump
"The More I Know About Brewers, The More I Realize We Need To Work
Together!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:32:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Russ Kruska <R.KRUSKA@CGNET.COM>
Subject: Poppet Valves
One big question: I have pin lock kegs of all types and they are
getting a bit old. I use keg lube etc. on all rubber parts including
poppet valves. Nonetheless, the poppets are starting to wear out.
I understand there are 3 different types of poppet valves. Surely
there must be someone who sells all 3 types and would have pictures
of the 3 types on a web page ??? Some retailers say 'send your old
poppets' with your order, but i can't afford to do that (I live in Kenya).
Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 06:49:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: folsom@ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom)
Subject: Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry?
Tom Alearts writes:
>So are there people who homemade both kinds of beer? I have not
>tasted a blueberry beer yet, and I would like to know if one or
>the other is obviously significantly better than the other.
I would definately choose the raspberry. Blueberry gives a very
subtle flavor which fades overtime to an indistinct fruitiness. At
least, it has when I've made them. Raspberry has a much more
pronounced flavor which lasts well. Having said that, I recently
tasted a blueberry beer at a competition which had a very nice flavor.
I'd like to know how they did it!
cheers,
Al F.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:02:15 PDT
From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig@wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Briess Data Point
In HBD 2738, Frederick L. Pauly says he had a problem with Briess 2 row:
Here is another data point:
>From October 97 to May 98 I used 3 - 50# bags of Briess 2 row - all
purchased at different times and from different lots to no ill effect
- actually they were some of the best beers I have made to date. In
fact, on a Porter and a Vienna, I was finally able to place in a
contest in which I had no luck the last few years . . .
I would suggest examining your procedures as well, just in case there
was a change there along with the malt that allowed you to brew
batches more to your liking.
Steve
Brewing in Ontario NY
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:05:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Rodney Bender (717) 787-4973" <BENDER.RODNEY@a1.pader.gov>
Subject: MCAB at BHC
This is in response to Mr. Murphy's "question" concerning the best beer from
the BHC which is moving on to the MCAB. I am the brewer of that dry stout
that qualified. You state in your post that the best dry stout from that
competition should move on. The way I see it, the 13 dry stout entries were
judged by a panel, after reviewing the scores of these beers the best dry
stout was selected as the winner of the QSqualifier round. I'm not sure how
close the scores may have been, but with this panel this is the way it
turned out. When all the stout entries were judged for the competition, a
different panel of judges evidently scored the beers differently. (Look at
your score sheets and see the difference in scores and comments) I'm sure
your beer is a great beer,I also feel that my beer is a great beer. Which is
the best dry stout of the Competition? Who can say for sure, judging is
subjective. That day it happened to go in my favor, another it may have
gone in yours. I can see your concern about the clarity of the rules, I
really didn't know how they were handling it either. I can just assume
that they are a reputable organization and that they run their event in a
professional manner.
I also wanted to add that I am from Elizabethtown, PA and am in no way
affiliated with the BHC. Also to respond to one of Louis Bonham's suggested
ways of handling this situation, how can you consider decertifying my
current dry stout qualifier? Did it not win in its QS round, as the BHC
chose to qualify the MCAB qualifier? By doing something like this, you
would just be opening another can of worms! Best of luck John at
other qualifying events. Thanks!
Rod Bender
The Brewmasters, E-town, PA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:26:50 -0400
From: fridge@Imbecile.kzoo.edu
Subject: Grabbing the good rate
Greetings folks,
Gary Nazelrod asks if shutting a fridge off for 8 hours per day
would harm it. The short answer is: Not likely, but there are a few
things to consider (There's always a catch).
If the fridge is a manual defrost model or a chest freezer, the
compressor, maybe a light and possibly a door heater are the only
major electrical components in the system. There will be a slightly
greater load on the compressor when pulling the cabinet
temperature down from a higher than normal value but this shouldn't
cause any problems.
Frost-free models routinely cycle the compressor off and energize
heating elements to melt accumulated ice from the evaporator coil.
This happens every 8 hours or so. The compressor is restarted at
the end of the defrost period which pulls the higher than normal
cabinet temperature back down to setpoint.
So what Gary wants to do is done routinely on most modern
fridges. There should be no compressor problems. There may be
other considerations, however.
If using a frost-free fridge, consider the fact that these units are
more complex than the manual defrost models and often have anti-
sweat heaters around the door frame. If the fridge is located in a
humid area, the cabinet may sweat around the door gaskets when
the power is cut.
Another consideration for a frost-free fridge is the defrost timer.
You may find that after having the power cut during the day, that the
defrost timer puts the fridge through a defrost cycle shortly after
restarting it, which will elevate the cabinet temperature even higher.
This shouldn't harm the fridge, but may not be great if you're trying
to hold a fermentation temperature.
In any case, keeping as large a thermal mass in the cabinet as is
possible will help even out any temperature fluctuations throughout
the day.
On another subject, Ron Warner posted a public "thank you" that
I'd like to publicly acknowledge. Kind words help make my day.
Thanks, Ron. FridgeGuy is my way of giving something back to the
HBD community in exchange for the wealth of brewing knowledge I
have gained from this forum. Thanks to all of you.
Hope this helps!
Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo
fridge@Imbecile.kzoo.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:32:02 -0400
From: James Tomlinson <red_beards@compuserve.com>
Subject: Polyclar use specifics
I've tried finding information about the most effective way to use
Polyclar. There seems to be very little in the way of description of use
except the debate between mixing it with water first or using it
directly dry.
Knowing that it is acting as a simulated protien to complex with the
tannins, and knowing that chill haze forms when the beer is cold, what
is the best proceedure for use ? Add it to the beer warm , then chill.
Chill first then add ? With water or without ?
Part 2, I normally dry hop my pale ales pretty excessively (1.5 oz/5
gallon). Also knowing that hops add some tannins. Will this be adding a
lot to my chill haze potential ? I am trying polyclar after dry hopping,
but again, see above. With the dry hopping, do I just need to add more
Polyclar ? I'm using about 2 tbsp per 5 gallons at present.
- --
James Tomlinson
Give a man a beer, and he wastes an hour.
But teach a man how to brew, and he wastes a lifetime!
Moody Waters Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:36:59 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Easy Chiller
00bkpickeril@bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) wrote:
>PS. I guess we'll never see an "Easy Chiller."
Best thing I've read on HBD in days!
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jun 1998 09:41:16 -0400
From: EFOUCH@steelcase.com
Subject: Hops Bines
HBD-
A question or two 'bout hops bines....
My hops are all a good 18' in the air, and developing nicely. However, one of
the bines right near the ground (Northern Brewer) has split open- a split
about 8 inches long. The rest of the bine looks fine. AMHR?
Also- The mounds are all at the base of my deck. They have to go 5' in the
air before they get full sun. I noticed that the leaves below the "sun line"
have a kind of white crispy edges, and are papery brittle. The crumble if you
squeeze 'em. Above the sun line, they look fine and are not brittle.
Anybody know what could be causing this? Lack of sun? Mineral deficiency?
The soil was clay, to which I added quite a bit of peat and compost. I have
not checked to soil pH.
Thanks for any help.
Eric Fouch
Bent Dick HopsFarm
Kentwood, MI (Hockeytown West)
GO WINGS!!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 08:36:20 CST
From: bthumm@entergy.com
Subject: Re: Blueberry vs. Raspberry
>>>
So are there people who homemade both kinds of beer? I have not tasted
a blueberry beer yet, and I would like to know of one or the other is
obviously significantly better than the other.
<<<
I have made both. I personally prefer raspberry wheat and blueberry
ale (i.e., non-wheat...). Not that I prefer either to a non-fruit
beer, but my girlfriend loves fruit beers, and having made several
raspberry and blueberry beers for her, again, raspberry in wheat and
blueberry in non-wheat beers.
However...to address your cost issue....
...you need more blueberries. My experience is that the blueberry
flavour is weaker than the raspberry. I use 1 pound of raspberries
per gallon (i.e., your 6.6 pounds would make a good 6 gallon batch of
raspberry wheat.) I use at least 1.5 pounds per gallon of
blueberries. I often boil up 6.5 gallons for a batch, and I use
roughly 10 pounds of blueberries.
So your cost issue is really a wash. Raspberries cost more, but you
should use more blueberries.
But this is all one man's opinion. I could be wrong.
Brian Thumm
Pier 147 Home Brewery
Baton Rouge, LA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 08:45:09 CST
From: bthumm@entergy.com
Subject: Re: How to assess recipe quality?
>>>
You can find 5 clone recipes for a certain commercial beer. But the
contents of the recipes often differ widely! And of course, the
comments of each recipe usually state that "it is the best beer I have
ever tasted". So one of those recipes must be a lot closer to the real
thing, but is it possible to predict this?
<<<
My comments? Try to find a clone recipe from the manufacturer.
Following an interview with the folks from Sierra Nevada, a magazine
(it escapes me now...might have been Brew Your Own) published a recipe
for SNPA. Having talked to the SNPA folks, the recipe claims to have
used the same malt, same hops, and correct amounts. And it was
startlingly close. (I'm no professional brewer, and my technique is a
little lacking, but I bet there are several people in this digest who
could have used the recipe and made it come out even closer.) The
best Pete's Wicked Ale clone was sent to me by Pete's themselves.
Whether or not it was the true recipe, I don't know, but again it was
the best clone recipe I have found for Pete's...The Longshot brews (do
they still make those?) had the recipe on the bottom of the six-pack
carton.
My belabored point...the best clone recipes come from the brewer. All
else is probably trial and error.
But this is all one man's opinion. I could be wrong.
Brian Thumm
Pier 147 Home Brewery
Baton Rouge, LA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:02:44 -0400
From: Bob.Sutton@fluordaniel.com
Subject: When to spice a Wit
Louis Bonham <lkbonham@phoenix.net> wrote:
>Sorry, John, but I'll have to ask you for at least the fourth time.
<snip>
Gee guys, enough banter already - let's take this off-line, resolve your
differences, and then come back and share your consensus.
***
In other news Jack S. tells us about the "World's Greatest Beer"...
Coming from an astronomer I'm surprised at Jack's modesty. Come on Jack - you
really meant to say the Galaxy's Best Beer didn't you.
***
When is Dave returning form vacation. I did a word search of the archives for
"Clinitest" and found no recent posts.
***
I thought I'd try an overnight post-boil cool, but temps here in Sawth Caroline,
haven't dropped below 78... Guess it will be a few weeks before I can add the
yeast...
***
I embarking on a Wit - nothing earth-shaking mind you, but I wanted to know when
is the most appropriate time to add coriander and bitter orange. Is it better
suited to the secondary, or the last few minutes of the boil. TIA.
All for now...
Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:19:44 EDT
From: OCaball299@aol.com
Subject: Re: Recognition for uncommon kindness
>Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:40:09 -0400
>From: Ron Warner <rwarner@annap.infi.net>
>Subject: Recognition for uncommon kindness
>
>I won't take much b'width here but I feel compelled to declare to the
>group the appreciation I have for the assistance I have received from
>the FridgeGuy from Michigan. Mr. Duddles has spent very valuable time
>giving me instruction/direction in great detail and clarity regarding a
>refrigeration conversion project. He is a true educator and deserves
>recognition for his willingness to share his expertise with the group so
>gently and clearly.
>
>
I second that. Fridge Guy has provided me with valuable info/guidance.
THAT'S
what this is all about... HELPING each other.
... now back to the bashing... :(
Omar Caballero - Aurora, IL
"Live long and prosper" - Mr. Spock
... and have another Homebrew!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:45:14 -0500
From: Tim Burkhart <tburkhart@dridesign.com>
Subject: 1) Cellar temp again
Due to the lack of any response from my first post, I would like to humbly
post my question again about cellar temperature. I have a 1056 bottled
porter that has matured a month, and I would like to lay down at least a
case for 3 months or more to see how it changes over time. My cellar has
remained at a constant 68f this spring, and hopefully into the summer. I
don't have enough fridge space so I'm stuck with the cellar.
Is 68f too warm for an extended conditioning of this beer? Will this temp
merely give it a shorter lifespan or will it have no effect at all?
Thanks.
Tim Burkhart,
Kansas City
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 10:42:05 CDT
From: jwilkins@wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: RE: cooling isn't cool?
I think I will do as Dr. Pivo suggests and split a batch into chilled with a cf
chiller and cooled slowly overnight for comparison. I have wondered about a
lot of the procedures I have accepted blindly since I started brewing. Some of
it seems to make sense but that doesn't necessarily make it valid. If a
process is simple I usually go ahead and do it rather than risk a batch of beer.
I have on several occasions forgotten steps or just screwed up and have done
what is usually considered unspeakable things to my beer with no apparent bad
results. Skunking by sunlight is one thing I am sceptical of. I have had many
a beer in clear glasses out in the bright afternoon Texas sun and have never
noticed any skunking. I usually brew outside and I have run off from the
kettle through clear tubing in the bright summer sun and aerated by pouring
between buckets in the same bright sun without affect noticeable by me. It has
been suggested that my sense of skunking is deficient and perhaps that is true.
It also may be true that the danger is not quite what it is reputed to be.
Also, that pouring of beer to aerate it is supposed to be a dangerous practice
due to airborne nasties. I have never had an infection from it.
I realize that I may have just been lucky and that if I repeatedly violate
the rules I may get stung but some would have you to believe that some of
my practices (beer in sunlight, for instance) are sure death to good beer. I
have not found that to be so.
So, I will join Dr. Pivo in his experiment. some may argue that our sense
of DMS is deficient if we don't detect any but if we try our experiments with
a few other tasters that should reduce that possibility.
Of course, there is the possibility that Jack S. will be proved wrong and
"conventional wisdom" proved right. That is fine, too.
Iconoclasts of the world unite! You have nothing to loose but your momilies.
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins@wss.dsccc.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 08:44:00 -0800
From: Jack Phillips <jphillip@FUTUREX.COM>
Subject:BIG BREW update from site ???
Hello fellow beerlings - Got a call on Saturday night from Beth Zangary
that the BW was ready to keg/bottle, so I should show up around 11:00am
at the brewery to participate in this fun event. Arrived promptly at
eleven to find Beth, Pat Kennealy and Brian Schwind already there. After
a brief discussion with Terry Bonham the owner/master brewer at Jack
Russell Brewing about current C02 levels, krausening, clearing the
takeout tube and pulling the yeast we were ready to start. We decided to
fill kegs first then bottle( we had quite a few club members who wanted
it bottled) The original batch was 7.5 barrels into the fermenter. This
was reduced somewhat by those who wished to take the wort home and pitch
their own yeast. Things went well and we finished filling all the keg's
by 12:30 - 1:00. Everybody thought this was great and expected the
bottling to go as quickly. As the line loss in the bottling line could be
as high as half a barrel we decided to hand bottle. One counter pressure
filler, one bottle capper and 45 cases of clean and sanitized bottles =
approximately 7 hours of work. As we decided to hand bottle we also
decided to pull the beer from the yeast port rather than the takeout to
keep the loss to a minimum. As Terry didn't have the sight tube attached,
and because we were pulling beer from below the takeout, we had a
protracted discussion as to how much brew was left based on Terry's
original volume figures less the 55 gallons which was transferred to
corny keg's. This discussion usually went something like this "how much
more of this stuff is there"? uttered by various individuals, followed by
Brian Schwind saying something to the effect "we should be getting close"
. We were close at 5:00, 5:30, 6:30, 7:15 and when we finished it was
8:45pm, with another 45 minutes or so cleaning up. Of course we all vowed
to do it again....with some slight modifications. The freshly fermented
beer tasted great and should be ready around the Xmas holidays (how
convenient can it get).
I would like to say thanks to Terry for allowing a large group of us home
brewers to use the brewery for this project. Terry provided tips,
techniques, was always present to answer any questions, and allowed a 15
bbl fermenter to be taken out of production for over a month.
Enjoy
Brewing on the timberline - Jack P.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:22:24 -0700
From: "Gregory A. Lorton" <glorton@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Sluggish ferment w/ Chimay yeast (from Dean Fikar)/Lambics (from Jason Gorman)
In HBD 2738, Dean Fikar talks about making a Trippel with Chimay yeast (red
cap), but the fermentation seems to have stalled at 1.027 after 16 days,
having started at 1.078. Should he add some of his Wyeast 3068
Weihenstephan Wheat starter.
My suggestion would be to get a Wyeast 1214 Belgian Abbey smack pack
instead. I seem to recall having heard that this yeast originally came
from Chimay. My wife Liz and I have made a number of tripels that have
done well in competitions using the 1214 yeast, and it hardly ever lets me
down. We usually start with an OG of 1.080 to 1.090, and we end up with
final gravities around 1.015 to 1.017. Last summer, Liz made her own
tripel for the Queen of Beer competition that started at 1.088 and finished
at 1.013. Her primary fermentation was unbelievable, 1.088 to 1.016 in
three days. It blew two quarts out of a 3-gallon fermenter. We
invariably get higher apparent attenuations than the 72% to 76% that Wyeast
lists for the 1214.
One other thing we do is to make sure we've got a warm fermentation (at
least 70F, preferably 75F). When the primary fermenter is really cranking,
the isoamyl acetate banana aroma fills the garage. The higher the
temperature, the more esters we get, and the faster it goes. I would
imagine that the 3068 would give a pronounced banana aroma and flavor, but
the phenol contribution from 3068 might be different than one would expect
from a tripel. But that combination might make for an interesting, complex
beer.
Finally, when we made our first tripel five years ago, we used the 1214
yeast (just the smacked pack - no starter) but had no apparent activity for
38 hours. We then added a pack of Whitbread dry ale yeast directly to the
primary, and had full activity at 48 hours. But then the beer that came
out was full of the estery-phenolic character of a tripel. The 1214
critters must have been quietly multiplying and growing. When we dumped in
the ale yeast we pushed it over the edge. That one did well in contest
also.
Bottom line: try the Wyeast 1214, but any of your suggestions will
probably work. Most of the Belgian character is probably already there in
going from 1.078 to 1.027.
__________
Jason Gorman asked about how to make hops stale for a lambic... I remember
reading in Brewing Techniques last year that Jim Liddil just puts his hops
out in the sun for a week or two for his lambics. But then he's in Tucson
(but it's a DRY heat). Maybe three weeks in a more temperate climate. I'm
trying that myself now for a framboise.
Greg Lorton
Brewing in San Diego (really Carlsbad), and trying to hide from Charles
Hudak
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:41:52 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer@gte.net>
Subject: Cleaning your nightmare
Hi Dave,
It depends on what type of flux you used. Did you use a petroleum jelly
based paste, or a clear liquid type? The jelly pastes need to be
dissolved off with a solvent. Unless you have access to acetone or
other industrial solvents, your best bet is high octane gasoline. Then
you need to get rid of that! Fortunately, hot water and detergent should
take care of that with lots of rinsing.
The liquid fluxes can be washed off with detergents and water.
For final cleaning, I recommend white distilled vinegar.
John Palmer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:59:20 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton@iastate.edu>
Subject: Yeast Refinement
Howdy. I have just a few more questions about yeast and yeast management.
Thanks go out to all those who have emailed their wisdom. Here are my
questions:
1. When preparing a yeast starter solution, I have often seen it written
that the (insert your favorite synonym for bodies) of dead yeast make
excellent yeast nutrient. I make my starters in 1 liter increments. How
much (slurry from my carboy/yeast from extract can packs) should I add to
the starter to meet the yeast nutrition needs?
2. I have also read that yeast should be "started" or stepped up in wort
solution that matches approximately the gravity/bitterness of the wort in
the fermentor. I have also read that a weak glucose solution with yeast
nutrient is just as effective. I want to avoid having to make a
wheat-containing starter wort for a hefeweizen starter, or to hugely hop a
starter for an IPA. I aerate with an aquarium stone, and when I use wort,
the foam is a real PITA. What is a good general compromise?
3. Should yeast also be propogated at the same temperatures as
fermentation, or can I put the starter vessel in a warm dark corner of my
house?
4. How can an amateur without access to methylene blue decide/determine the
viability of the yeast on a slant/in the bottom of a bottle of homebrew?
5. Are there brewers out there who actually would be willing to "trade"
slants? I am looking to build a yeast library when I get my ranching skills
up to snuff, and there is no reason why others can't benefit/help.
6. What is the best way to restock beer bullets? I just got a line on an
autoclave (electric) that might use up quite a few of them. I really want
to keep my wife AND the autoclave, if it works out.
Thanks for the time/space.
I love the HBD
Jeff
Jeffrey M. Kenton jkenton@iastate.edu
Ames, Iowa brewer@iastate.edu
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2740, 06/15/98
*************************************
-------
