Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #2653
HOMEBREW Digest #2653 Thu 05 March 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Re: Shaklee Basic-I for TSP? / Corny Poppets (ristau.ted)
Homebrew presentation ("Jared B Froedtert")
Aluminum Pots (Dave Hinrichs)
Cap Decorations ("Goodale, Daniel CPT-- 4ID HHC DISCOM CDR")
RE: Making Rootbeer (Richard Gardner)
St.Stan's Red Sky Ale (mallem60)
Park Slope IPA recipe request (Eugene Sonn)
Rogue ales (DGofus)
Berliner Weiss (George_De_Piro)
Re: Berliner Weiss (Malty Dog)
Does yeast eat protein? (Martin A. Gulaian)
Re: Ron's Beginner Questions ("Mark Nelson")
Pint glasses or a pint of beer (Steve)
Salts and Reinheitsgebot ("Jim Busch")
Re: Fw: Iowa HB Legislation (Jeff Renner)
Re: CounterFlow Chiller Question/Strange Ferment Summary (Spencer W Thomas)
pHalse ("David R. Burley")
RE: Power (LaBorde, Ronald)
Re: Modified RIMS heater / Expanding foam around LT (Dion Hollenbeck)
Re: Beginners Questions ("Brian McHenry")
party pig foaming (Kevin TenBrink)
swap dog for fish (Andy Walsh)
Allergic to yeast/Filtering help... (Mark T A Nesdoly)
pH mystery ("Frederick L. Pauly")
Polycarbonate Cement (EFOUCH)
George Steinbierer -- owns the Yankees? (Samuel Mize)
Funny Water/iodide (AJ)
wild homebrew gear collection (AlannnnT)
Canine Power Factor (Some Guy)
new batch (OCaball299)
(no subject) (Scott/Colleen Sutherland)
Be sure to enter the 7th NYC Spring Regional Competition
3/22/98. Surf to www.wp.com/hosi/companno.html for more
information...
----------------------------------------------------------
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org.
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery@hbd.org
Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org
Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:
Anonymous ftp from...
ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
AFS users can find it under...
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:10:10 -0700
From: ristau.ted@spartan.ab.ca
Subject: Re: Shaklee Basic-I for TSP? / Corny Poppets
>>From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos@hotmail.com>
>>On to Corny poppets, I can't seem to get them out without them
>>deforming because they "clip" to a rim beyond the threads of the
>>ball-locks. Driving them out is like pushing againts a "barb". I end
>>up using pliers...
greg, try using a chopstick and hammer to "punch" the poppet out of
the ball-lock. I rest the ball-lock on a piece of softwood while doing
this; the "barbs" don't deform on contact with the wood. To reinstall,
i drop them into the lock, then use a chopstick to reseat them. They
still fit tightly after multiple removals and reinstalls.
BTW, I obtained my used corny kegs about 6 years ago from a fast-food
company changing over to concentrate. I only remove the ball-locks on
a new (used) keg for removing the pop crud and then yearly after that
for preventive cleaning.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:11:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jared B Froedtert" <froedter@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Homebrew presentation
Hello all,
I am in need of a little information about homebrewing. I've been asked by
my boss here at work to prepare a small presentation in order to show off the
new portable projector computer screen. He needs to basically show off the
unique things that can be done using computer slide shows insteed of regular
slides, animations, movies, sounds, etc....that sort od stuff. So i decieded
that i'd educate some folks on home brewing. I was wondering where to look on
the net for stuff like: date of federal legalization, what states are legal and
when, any brew animations, any brew movies, any brew sounds, brew graphics, you
get the idea. Or if any of you want to answer directly or have some of the
files i mentioned, feel free to e-mail me. I'll be using MS power point if
that helps any. TIA and we'll see what i can come up with.
jared froedtert
froedter@pilot.msu.edu
east lansing, mi
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:22:34 -0500
From: Dave Hinrichs <dhinrichs@quannon.com>
Subject: Aluminum Pots
I have been lurking here for awhile now, great resourse. A significant
reason to not use Aluminum is that it just does not hold up to the corrosive
action of boiling. Take a look at a well used aluminum pot, it will be
pitted and scared from boiling. I designed countertop water distillers and
one of the things we tried to reduce cost was an Aluminum pot in place of
Stainless. Testing destroyed the pot in short order.
***************************************************************
* Dave Hinrichs E-Mail: dhinrichs@quannon.com *
* Quannon CAD Systems, Inc. Voice: (612) 935-3367 *
* 6101 Baker Road, Suite 204 FAX: (612) 935-0409 *
* Minnetonka, MN 55345 BBS: (612) 935-8465 *
* http://www.quannon.com/ *
***************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:30:18 -0600
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT-- 4ID HHC DISCOM CDR"
Subject: Cap Decorations
Dear Homebrew Collective,
While browsing at the local brew store, I flipped through a
Zymurgy magazine and noticed an article on decorating crown caps.
Unfortunately, their technique (basically drawing on the caps with
markers) required artistic talent and the use of "blank" caps of which I
have neither. Besides, who wants to draw the same design 48 times? I
use inexpensive TAB (tm) print over run caps exclusively. Every time I
give the gift of brew in a handsome bottle with a great label, the only
comment is, "gee, I didn't know TAB came in those bottles."
I tried a trick from the HBD (sorry, can't remember from who) of
printing your desired artwork on round labels and apply to the cap. I
couldn't locate labels that would exactly cover the top. Consequently,
it didn't hide the fact that it was really a TAB cap. Besides, it
looked just like what it was. A piece of paper glued to a cap.
I settled for painting the caps myself with spray paint. This
technique can give you solid color caps or with some creative use of
tape, multicolored caps. I made a reasonable facsimile of the Texas
state flag for my "Bubba Beer." It all went over very well. I sprayed
24 caps with primer gray, then white. I used tape to cover the right
half and an adhesive star to cover on the left. Then the blue paint.
Then covered all but the lower right and painted red. A little labor
intensive but well worth it.
A little easier technique is to use those novelty hole punches
to punch out shapes in adhesive label material. Paint the caps, apply
the adhesive shape and repaint with a contrasting color. Carefully peel
away label with the tip of an exacto knife and there you are. I guess
you could also use the cut out material as a stencil but it would be a
one time use thing. These novelty hole punches give you nice "clip
art." Most are cutesy hearts and lips, but I've found suns, cats,
planes, trees, ect. Lettering and the like I've put in the Too Hard
column, but you can have nice theme caps to compliment your label.
The do it yourself craze has led to some interesting craft
paints that may be interesting as well. You can be the first on your
block to have a fleckstone caps! Hell, just do the whole bottle!
In my experiment, the spray paint did not get on the underside
of the cap so I don't think contact with the paint is a problem. The
only downside is that the paint on the bendable sides of the caps gets
mucked up in my bench capper. A wing capper may be a little more
gentle?
You may want reserve special cap decorating for only your finest
gift brews or not. I think that beer out of a really cool bottle tastes
better. Your mileage may vary.
Daniel Goodale
The Biohazard Brewing Company
Home of the zero gee "brew in a lung" brew kit!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:10:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Richard Gardner <rgardner@papillion.ne.us>
Subject: RE: Making Rootbeer
Bill asked about making root beer from scratch -
I wouldn't recommend it as the classic recipe for old style root beer
contains sassafras root, which contains safrole, a carcinogen. It was
outlawed by the FDA in 1960 after tests showed it caused liver cancer in
rats. How much is a danger? Who knows, but my layman's understanding is
that this isn't one of those over which there is lots of arguement.
You probably could make up some sort of herbal mix without sassafras
(assuming you could find some), but it would be tough to get a real root
beer without it. I suggest you use an extract for the base, and add some
extras to give it some zing like some fresh mint or vanilla bean.
If you check the archives, there was considerable discussion a couple of
years ago on this topic.
REF: Rodale's Illust Ency of Herbs, 1987.
- --- The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant ----
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:23:05 +0000
From: mallem60@wales.bbc.co.uk
Subject: St.Stan's Red Sky Ale
Has anybody got a clone recipe for St. Stan's (Californian micro)
Red Sky Ale, as it's now available here in the UK in supermarkets,
and it's very good (IMHO)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:08:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene@dreamscape.com>
Subject: Park Slope IPA recipe request
HBDers,
I'm making beer for my brother's engagement party and need some
recipe help. He really likes Park Slope IPA. Not living in New York
City, I haven't seen that beer on my local shelves. Is anyone in the NYC
area familiar with it. How hoppy is it. Is it a true IPA or more akin to
the pacific northwest versions of that style? If you have a good
description of the beer or a reciped for a clone, please e-mail me
privately.
Thanks in advance,
Eugene Sonn
eugene@nova.dreamscape.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 07:57:56 EST
From: DGofus <DGofus@aol.com>
Subject: Rogue ales
I have recently supplemented my homebrew supply with a stock of store bought
brew. I bought some Rogue Ales. My question is, has any body heard of
White Crane Bitter Ale by Rogue? The distributor said it was brand new.I have
a feeling that it is made for export, as the bottle and cap have
Chinese(japanese) writing. The bottle is 12oz as the other Rogue bottles, but
it is not the squat 12oz bottles, it is the regular size longneck type bottle.
It is a good brew, not bad price($26). Any help, answers? I am convinced that
it is hard to beat a Rogue for the price!
Private E-mail ok.
Bob Fesmire
Madman Brewery
Pottstown, PA
Dgofus@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:37:38 -0800
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com
Subject: Berliner Weiss
Hi all,
Dave Burley responds to Sam's Berliner Weiss question saying that he
should dose it with lactic acid to achieve sourness rather than use
traditional methods (sour mash, bacterial fermentation, etc.).
While this will help keep your brewery free of unwanted (in other
beers) microbes, it will not yield an authentic Berliner Weiss. There
is much more to the flavor of a BW than just lactic sourness.
Berliner Kindl, which is widely available here in the US, is far
inferior to Schultheiss (IMHO). The Schultheiss has a lovely Brett.
character, along with complex sourness, and some fruit and vegetable
notes. You will not achieve this complexity by simply dosing with
lactic acid.
A friend of mine made an incredible Berliner Weiss a couple of years
back. Perhaps he can be persuaded to post about his procedures? You
know who you are...
I'll let him explain the details (because I don't remember them all),
but it was amazingly simple. I don't think the wort was even boiled!
Michael Jackson talks about Berliner Weiss and methods of production
in the New World Guide to Beer. Check it out.
As for Dave's warning about potentially contaminating your brewery
with unwanted bugs: yes, if you are not careful, you can get
cross-contamination. My opinion is that if you are that sloppy,
though, you're beers are probably becoming infected regularly anyway!
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:56:29 EST
From: Malty Dog <MaltyDog@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Berliner Weiss
I made the Berliner Weisse that George was talking about in his recent post.
I believe I posted this to the HBD digest before, but that was a while ago.
Basically, I did a long, five-hour saccarification rest, with hops in the mash
tun (which in my case is a picnic cooler), sparged into my brewpot, and then
chilled down the wort to pitching temperature, and pitched a Belgian Wheat
beer yeast. If you look closely, you'll notice that I did, indeed, miss a
typical step in brewing beer--no boil. All sourness that this beer had was due
to the lactobacillis in the beer. This is a traditional method of brewing
Berliner Weisse, which you will read about in Jackson, as well as other
places. I'm not sure that it is done in any breweries these days.
As it turns out, despite the lack of a boil, the sourness was well within the
range of a Berline Weisse; that is, the didn't get infected and horribly sour.
As a matter of fact, I attempted another batch some time later, and it didn't
get sour enough! I'm pretty sure why this happened, after the fact; in the
first batch, after the five-hour mash, I just sparged. After sitting in the
picnic cooler for five or six hours, the temperature of the mash was around
130 or so. So the extraction was pretty low; about 65%, if I remember
correctly. I had to add extract to the batch to bump it all the way up to
1.030!! So, the next time I made the beer, I tried to heat the mash up to 170
or so with an infusion, in order to get a better extraction. I was worried
about killing the bacteria, so I separated some first runnings before heating
up the mash, but it didn't seem to work. The beer, as I said, was not sour
enough, despite not being boiled.
Next time, I'll just throw in a few more pounds of grain, and expect the low
extraction. How many more pounds could it take to make a 1.030 beer, anyway?
Bill Coleman
MaltyDog@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:00:30 -0500 (EST)
From: mag6@po.CWRU.Edu (Martin A. Gulaian)
Subject: Does yeast eat protein?
Howdy folks -
I make a lot of sourdough bread, and as far as I know the yeast
in the sourdough culture feeds on the wheat gluten. In fact if you
let the bread rise too long it will eat up all the gluten and you
end up with a nasty clay-like dough with none of the nice rubbery
feel of a proper bread dough.
So if bread yeasts live on protein, why don't beer yeasts even touch
it? I've never seen any reference to beer yeasts eating anything
except the simpler sugars, and using broken down proteins as
"nutrients".
People here have commented that a starch haze can cause infection
problems - bacteria will feed on the starch. Seems like there would
be the same problem with protein haze - why wouldn't wild yeast feed on
it? (my gluten-eating sourdough culture was started with random wild
local yeast). Even if the yeast were so picky that they ONLY ate
wheat gluten, wouldn't it be a problem with wheat beers?
Just wondering,
MG
- --
Marty Gulaian - Cleveland, Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:00:12 -0500
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ron's Beginner Questions
Let me de-lurk to answer another newbie's questions, or at least try.
-Can someone enlighten me as to the need to use dry and
-liquid malt extracts together? Can you use two 4 lb. cans of liquid
-extract for a 5-6 gallon batch?
One useful thing about using dry and liquid malts together is getting
precise amounts of extract. In other words, you could buy two cans and
either under- or overshoot the amount of extract, or you can buy one can and
make up the rest of the fermentables by using a pound or two of dry extract.
There are other differences, such as liquid extract's tendency to darken
during storage, and dry extract's higher percent of sugar (due to no water
content), etc. BTW, two 4 lb cans of liquid is enough for a pretty big
beer - an IPA at ~1.055 or higher.
-Why use grains and hops with hopped liquid malt extract?
The hops that are in the hopped extracts are generally bittering hops only.
Especially if the kit calls for an hour or so of boiling, since the flavor
and aroma will boil away during that time. Additional hops are added to
these kits for the flavor and aroma. Additional grains are used, either in
a 'steep' or 'mini-mash', to add fresh grain flavor, body and head
retention.
-I already have a 5 gallon carboy, but I haven't used it yet. Is a 6
-gallon carboy necessary if you're going to use it as a primary
-fermenter? Should you conduct a secondary fermentation with these
-'kits'?
A 6 gallon carboy isn't absolutely necessary. You can use a 5 gallon, but
then expect to need a blow off tube. I use a 6 gallon, which is generally
safe for just an airlock.
-It finished with excellent taste and carbonation, but no
-alcohol content (at least that I could detect - didn't feel a thing even
-after 5-6 of 'em).
It sounds like you made a 'session' beer. Try adding malt, honey or (third
choice) corn sugar to up the alcohol. Malt will preserve body and taste,
honey will lighten the body and leave some flavor, corn sugar will lower the
body and not add any taste although some report a cidery taste with alot of
corn sugar.
Hope this helps, and good luck.
- --
Mark Nelson
Windhund Brauerei
Atlanta Georgia
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:17:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Steve <JOHNSONS@uansv5.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: Pint glasses or a pint of beer
Somehow I see this discussion about pint glasses and how much beer one actually
gets served as being a little bit like splitting hairs. I know that the
glasses we get our beers served in at all of the brewpubs in Nashville (we
currently have 4) use 16 oz. glasses. I know going into these establishments
that I will more than likely NOT get 16 ounces of beer when it arrives at the
table. Usually, there is more like 14 ounces of beer, and a nice, thick,
creamy 1/2 inch to 1 inch head on the beer. But, rather than cry and moan
that I'm not getting a "pint of ale," I choose to relish in the good fortune
I have of being able to get some wonderful handcrafted beers in Tennessee, the
heart of the bible belt! Folks in nearby Mississippi aren't nearly as
fortunate. So, I see it as irrelevant whether a brewpub advertises that their
beer is served in pint glasses or say they are serving a pint of beer. One
of our brewpubs, Boscos, where Chuck Skypeck brews the famous Flaming Stone
Steinbier, actually is giving our homebrew clubmembers a special employee
discount and even has a special mug club where you can get a 22 ounce mug for
the price of a pint glass. Now that's a deal! So raise your pint glasses
and toast the brewers of these fine beers.
Steve Johnson, President
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:33:29 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim@victorybeer.com>
Subject: Salts and Reinheitsgebot
George commented on the additions of brewing salts to water and said
that this is verboten according to the Reinheitsgebot. As I
understand the edict, mineral salts are not verboten. Adding acids
that are not produced naturally is verboten. Has to do with
natuarally occuring or somesuch... Corrections/elucidations welcome.
Prost!
Jim Busch
"A Victory for your Tastes!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:35:10 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: Iowa HB Legislation
Jethro Gump, aka "Rob Moline" <brewer@ames.net>, asks for support for Iowa
HB legislation. Michigan was in a similar situation, but a homebrewing (!)
legislator last year helped craft and pass an exemplary bill that not only
permits us to transport to competitions, but actually aloows us to give
away up to 20 (I think) gallons a year. This is really a great feature,
and I think it is unique. Homebrewers in other states might try to get a
similar feature added to any legislation.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:46:13 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: CounterFlow Chiller Question/Strange Ferment Summary
Re: hose and hot wort. I found it to be a problem at one point. I
ruined two batches of beer by siphoning hot wort through new hose. It
picked up a nasty plastic flavor.
I then did some research and engineered a bulk buy of silicone tubing
from a wholesaler, through a local homebrew-related business. The
tubing ended up costing about $1.25/ft including my reshipping costs,
when bought in 50ft lengths. It's rated to 400F, so you can even
autoclave it or sterilize it by baking in the oven.
Unfortunately, I don't have any left. The tubing that I bought was
manufactured by Norton Plastics, and I bought it through AIN Plastics
Inc. AIN's main number is 800-431-2451; they may refer you to a
regional number from there.
The tubing I got is Norton's "Silicone FG Tubing" The highlights are:
* Repeatedly Autoclavable
* UV Light and Ozone Resistant
* Excellent resistance to Strong Alkalies and Weak Acids
* Odorless and Taste-free
* Meets FDA criteria for use with food and beverages
* Working temperature: -76F to 428F (-60C to +220C)
* Transparent
It is not good for pumped applications, as the burst strength drops to
about 1.8PSI at 100C. You'd have to get tubing with an embedded
braid, and those are significantly more expensive.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:47:40 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: pHalse
Brewsters:
Mark D. Lowe is using those brown pH papers and wonders why his water pH
after all that treatment is still 4.8 and it even stays at 4.8 in the
mash. The answer? it's the stupid pH paper. These papers are the most
worthless thing I have ever seen distributed by the HB system and
everyone
should take them back to their local HB store and demand their money
back.
I did.
Mark, locate another source for some pH papers which have two or three
colored bands on them that read in the correct range or buy a simple pH
meter. Chances are very good your water is coming out at near 7.0 after
the treatment you described and the pH is dropping to 5.X in the mash.
- ---------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:00:22 -0600
From: rlabor@lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Power
>From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
>All the postings on power and nobody has got it right yet:
>P = I*E*cos(theta)
>where theta is the relative phase between the voltage and current.
>Sorry, the old EE in me still shines through occasionally.
>PS: for a resistive load theta = 0 and cos(theta) = 1. cos(theta) is
>called the "power factor". You will often see switch gear rated for
>"volt-amperes" or "kilovolt-amperes" rather than watts or kilowatts
Good point technically. However, we are talking about resistive power
with heater elements. Reactive power is another story not really
pertinent to our present moment. It would seem like adding unnecessary
confusion to an already not so intuitive subject. With resistive power,
why consider reactive effects?
Ron
Ronald J. La Borde, Metairie, La - rlabor@lsumc.edu
Ron
Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor@lsumc.edu
------------------------------
Date: 03 Mar 1998 07:28:46 -0800
From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen@vigra.com>
Subject: Re: Modified RIMS heater / Expanding foam around LT
>> the Real Dan writes:
Dan> You will have a few problems if you use that expanding foam in
Dan> the manner you describe. Filling an enclosed area with a
Dan> relatively large amount of expanding foam is counterindicated on
Dan> the instructions. You need some minimum air-exposure-area to
Dan> volume ratio. The foam requires water vapor and air exposure to
Dan> cure. It's pretty expensive per cubic inch, too. It is best used
Dan> for sealing seams.
This is completely accurate, but there is a way around it. You can
lay down a thin layer of foam and let it cure for 6 hours, and then
lay down another. In this manner, you CAN fill large voids with
foam. But don't get impatient and lay down too much at a time.
Practice filling a cardboard box. Then cut it open slicing down
through the layers. If you find that any of the foam is still liquid
and begins to expand once again, you must use thinner layers.
It can be done, but is onerous at best. And if you misjudge, the
resulting disaster of foam exanding forever and weeping liquid which
continues to expand is horrible to deal with. Take it from one who
made this mistake in his house wall and beer fridge. B-}
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com
http://www.vigra.com/~hollen
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:48:03 -0600
From: "Brian McHenry" <tbncentralus@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Beginners Questions
Now hear this:
>OICPO MORRIS <jamorris@washington.navy.mil> wrote:
>Can someone enlighten me as to the need to use dry and
>liquid malt extracts together?
You don't *need* to use DME and LME together. DME is usually used as a
substitute fermentable for corn sugar to prevent your brew from being too
thin and cidery tasting. In fact you *could* make a brew just using DME or
LME alone.
> Can you use two 4 lb. cans of liquid extract for a 5-6 gallon batch?
Yes.
> Why use grains and hops with hopped liquid malt extract?
Because of the processing necessary to produce an extract, some of the
proteins, nutrients, enzymes, etc. that contribute to beer's character are
lost. Grains are used to replace these things and in some cases are the
only way to produce certain flavors like *maltiness* in a German lager.
Hopped LME will lose any aroma or flavor contribution from the hop extract
during the boil. Fresh hops are used to impart the flavor and aroma which
is lost. If an iso-hop is used in the extract then the *bitterness*
contribution from the extract may still remain after the boil.
>I already have a 5 gallon carboy, but I haven't used it yet. Is a 6
>gallon carboy necessary if you're going to use it as a primary
>fermenter?
You can use a 5 gallon carboy as a primary but be sure to use a 1.25" od
tube as a blowoff instead of using a stopper and airlock. One end of the
four foot tube goes in the neck of the carboy and the other end goes in a
pail of water. The foam and gunk from the primary will shoot out the tube
and into the water. Just dump and replace the water until the primary cools
down. As always, sanitize the tube before using, etc.
>Should you conduct a secondary fermentation with these
>'kits'?
Secondary fermentation is almost always a good idea unless you are brewing a
*fast* style of beer (i.e. everything is over with in 3-4 days). You will
almost always want to add finings to this kind of beer to clear it up before
bottling/kegging. Putting it into a secondary allows the beer to clear on
its own.
>I brewed a batch last year that was in the form of a similar ingredient
>kit that I bought at the local supply store using the included
>instructions. It finished with excellent taste and carbonation, but no
>alcohol content (at least that I could detect - didn't feel a thing even
>after 5-6 of 'em).
Buy a hydrometer and take your specific gravity readings. Take one reading
intially on the wort before you add yeast and another after the fermentation
is *over*. Two consecutive identical readings on the hydrometer over a
period of two weeks is a pretty good indicator that its done. Then you'll
know what alcohol by volume (a.b.v.) you've got in your beer (there's a
formula or just use the abv scale on the hydrometer and subtract final from
initial).
>Obviously, I'm going to order the wrong stuff and I
>won't have access to any books until I return home in April. I'd like
>for the ingredients to be at the house as soon as I get home so I can
>get it started right away.
>
>In the meantime, I'll have to settle for Foster's lager on the pier in
>Jebel Ali, UAE and the advice from all the pros on this list. Hurry up,
>John C Stennis!
>
>Your help is greatly appreciated!
>Ron Morris
>USS George Washington (CVN 73)
>
You're welcome. That is all....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:04:58 -0700
From: Kevin TenBrink <tenbrink@jps.net>
Subject: party pig foaming
Ira wrote:
>>one of the plastic bags did not entirely expand
AND
>>about halfway through one of another keg, the beer started coming out
practically pure foam. I >>had primed it at about 1/3 cup
I have been using party pigs for about 2 years now. In the beginning, I
also experienced these problems. The best way to rectify the bags not
expanding is to shake them up really well before you put them into the
pig and activate. To get rid of all that excess foaming, tip the pig up
so the spout is on top, put a washcloth or rag over the spout and
depress the red button until beer comes out (just like when you first
activate the pouch). The foaming is caused by too much air or CO2 being
in the pig. As you let the air out, the bag will expand to take up the
extra room and dispense the beer with less foam.
hope this helps
Kevin TenBrink
Nine Inch Ales Homebrew Club
http://www.jps.net/tenbrink/nineinchales.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 03:05:57 +-1000
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
Subject: swap dog for fish
Some guy wrote:
>After much study, I have determined that dogs are toxic to hbd bandwidth.
Hmmm, OK. Dogs should now be considered taboo on HBD
(don't mention the C word)
For all you animal lovers out there, don't despair, there are plenty more.
Maybe homebrew ingredients are toxic to other cuddly friends; why not
experiment on your cat? (be sure to report results).
I for one, plan on trialing the toxicity of recycled homebrew on tropical
fish...
Andy
(BF = 72%)
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca
From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290@mail.usask.ca>
Subject: Allergic to yeast/Filtering help...
The ultimate has happened to me...I've become allergic to my beer! I should
elaborate a bit: I've slowly grown allergic to the yeast in my beer.
My question is what brand/style/etc of filter would you personally
recommend? I should mention that I keg my beer in the standard 5 gal
coke-style kegs (pin-lock). Also, what size of filter would I need to
eliminate most of the yeast, but still leave all the other good things behind?
Posted or emailed replies are both fine.
If there's sufficient responses, I will compile the results and submit them
to the HBD.
Thanks in advance,
- -- Mark, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:24:53 -0500
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m@avery.med.virginia.edu>
Subject: pH mystery
While sparging a mash for an Amber Ale 90% Breiss 2row,
10%Crystal L 60 I taseted a slight astringency in the runoff.
Tested my pH at room temp ~ 5.3 So what's the problem?
Did a test with 2 small bowls of crushed 2-row. Mixed in some
165F H20 for a mini mash. Let it cool to room temp. Then tested
pH with color fast papers. pH of #1 with my city water of low
alkilinity filtered for chlorine and boiled to release C02
~5.3 With #2 I used Spring water, smae pH. The pH of my home
water measured 5.8 at room temp the spring water 7.0
Added almost a teaspoon of gypsum to #1, did not budge the pH.
Added almost a teaspoon of CaCO3 to #2, did not budge the pH.
THis is using about 1 cup of grain in each test batch.
How can the pH stay the same???????????
Rick
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 1998 12:55:14 -0500
From: EFOUCH@steelcase.com
Subject: Polycarbonate Cement
HBD-
Dan Schultz commented about Poly Carbonate welding/bonding:
"
Check with the plastic store. PC cannot be solvent bonded. It will
stress crack at the smell of solvents
like MEK.
"
While MEK and Acetone will attack PC causing crazing and stress cracks, I
assure you it can quite successfully be cemented or bonded with MeCl2
(Methylene Chloride, or 1,1,- Dichloromethane)
Polycarbonate cement is available in cans, containing mostly MeCl2 or another
chlorinated solvent (1,1,1,- Trichloroethylene, and Perchloroethlyene work
also, I believe) and some residual monomers. Check in McMaster-Carr or
Grainger if you want the commercial stuff, but I have had great success using
straight MeCl2. It also works on acrylics and styrenes.
I have used it to make PC boxes by taping the edges together with Scotch Tape,
then running some MeCl2 into the joint with a Q-Tip. After drying, the joint
is often stronger than the virgin PC!
Disclaimer- I own no stock in any company holding a Trademark name mentioned
above.
Although MeCl2 has made the list of suspect carcinogens, I have used it for
years with no sic! visually sic! sic! apparent side sic! effects sic! wik!
(insert head jerk here).
Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
Kentwood MI
efouch@steelcase.com (where we don't use any MeCl2- except occasionally)
"I've got to run now and relax...The doctor told me to relax...The doctor told
me....He was the one....He said, "Relax".
-Goerge Bush in a press conference at Edwards Air Force Base
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:03:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Samuel Mize <smize@prime.imagin.net>
Subject: George Steinbierer -- owns the Yankees?
No, I guess that's George Steinbrenner.
Greetings to all, and especially to:
> From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com
> Subject: Steinbier
> Steinbier. I just thought I'd let you all know that I brewed it this
> weekend. There were no injuries or loss of property. Very dull.
We can fix that for you next time...
> The rocks never did glow red... Upon dropping them in the wort we were
> somewhat surprised by the lack of violence. ... We did achieve boiling
> from a temperature of about 140F (60C), though. ... The wort only boiled
> a few minutes after dropping the rocks in... The wort really didn't taste
> all that different from the Oktoberfest wort... I must say that the rocks
> didn't seem to have much character. I tasted one that wasn't for the
> keg and found it to be, um, rock-like. Not too sweet.
Did you remove the rocks once they stopped boiling the wort? If you
left them in for the rest of the boil, I'd expect any caramelized
layer to re-dissolve into the wort.
It sounds like the rocks weren't hot enough to get the results you wanted.
You need a forced-air fire, like a forge. This should get the fire burning
faster and hotter, and heat the rocks hotter. I'd build a forced-air
fireplace, then test it well before brew day and make sure it'll do what
you want.
You could build such a fireplace using a vacuum cleaner as a source of
forced air. I'd feel middling confident about digging a fire pit. For an
above-ground fireplace I'd have to do some research on materials. Normal
fireplace materials may NOT be heat-resistant enough.
Put a grill over the fire itself to catch blown embers. Have plenty of
water and a couple of fire extinguishers handy in case you blow embers
out and start some stray fires. You may want to use charcoal (or even
coal) for the primary heat, with some wood for smoke. (You WILL need
forced air to get coal to burn.)
If you heat randomly-selected rocks red or white hot, they may explode.
If you try again with forced air, I'd consult a geology book or
geologist about safety.
Best,
Sam Mize
- --
Samuel Mize -- smize@imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Multi-part MIME message: " ", " ", " " (hands waving)
Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 13:48:06 -0500
From: AJ <ajdel@mindspring.com>
Subject: Funny Water/iodide
Mark D. Lowe asks about the use of the neutralzer/softener combnination.
The neutralizer is filled with crushed limestone (unless it is the type
that injects lye or sodium carbonate solution). This results in raising
water pH (Mark's is 4.8 going in which I think may be outside EPA
limits) by dissolving the limestone just as occurs in nature
CaCO3 + H+ + HCO3- <--> Ca++ + 2HCO3-
(H+ + HCO3- = partially dissociated carbonic acid)
The output water is now less acidic but higher in bicarbonates (more
alkaline) and calcium (harder). If this water is run through a softener
the calcium will be replaced by sodium
Ca++ + 2NaResin + 2HCO3- --> 2Na+ + 2HCO3- + CaResin2
The water is now soft and alkaline and completely unsuitable for brewing
as the calcium which reacts with malt phosphate to reduce alkalinity is
missing.
A better approach for the use of this water would be to boil it (pre
neutralizer). We are hoping here that the low pH is from carbonic acid
and not some other mineral or organic acid. If it is, boiling will get
rid of most of it and the pH will go up above 7 possibly approaching 8.
H+ + HCO3- ---------> H20 + CO2
heat
This high pH will also precipitate the iron if its been oxidized to the
+3 state so cool the water after boiling it and then aerate. Ugly brown
flecs of gloop should appear which you can filter out with sand or
filter paper. Try this process with a small volume of water to see if it
works.
If boiling the water doesn't raise the pH substantially it's because the
water contains an organic acid or a mineral acid other than carbonic or
and you should be concerned about its source. In this case use the water
from the output of the neutralizer (before the softener). The
neutralizer will neutralize some of the acid:
2H+ + 2Anion - + 2CaCO3 <--> 2Ca++ + 2HCO3- + 2Anion-
Note that the arrow is two headed. The fact that the neutralizer ouput
pH is 5.6 (the _input_ to my neutralizer is at 5.6) means that reaction
doesn't go all the way to the right and there are lots of hydrogen ions
left. Neverthesless, water at 5.6 is fine for beer making in most cases.
If you were to boil it nevertheless (or heat it) you will, as above,
drive off CO2:
H+ + HCO3- ---------> H20 + CO2
heat
And, in addition, precipitate some chalk:
2Ca++ + 2HCO3- + 2Anion- ----> CO2 + H2O + CaCO3 + Ca++ + 2Anion-
heat
The boiling thus softens the water (and decreases its alkalinity).
Yes, a mash pH of 4.8 is considered too low but not terribly so. What is
perplexing is that addition of chalk does not fix the problem. Try
pulling out a quart of mash and adding chalk to it if fractions of tsp
at a time. The chalk must be thoroughly mixed in and some time must be
allowed (with mixing) for it to dissolve and react. The pH definitely
should rise. If it doesn't, suspect the pH strips. If it does, scale the
chalk addition to the size of the rest of the mash and add that amount.
4 tsp should certainly take care of the mash for a 5 gal. batch. I'd
suspect that not enough stirring/time was given or the pH measurement is
off.
RE: SG corrections. Make an ice bath and stick the test jar full of
runoff into it. You'll be able to measure SG within a minute or two that
way.
By the way, I'd love to know where you live. I believe 4.8 to be really
low for well water pH. Are you sure about those test strips?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *
nathan_l_kanous wrote about iodide ion in table salt. I don't think
iodides or organic iodine compounds are that hot for yeast either. In
particular, iodoacetate was used as an inhibitor by researcers in the
'30's as they elucidated the EMP pathway. Flouride ion is definitely an
inhibitor but not apparently too effective an inhibitor at the levels
found in most public water supplies. I need to do some reading to be
more specific about this.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:08:52 EST
From: AlannnnT <AlannnnT@aol.com>
Subject: wild homebrew gear collection
HBDers,
I am in the process of creating a page on the web to display the wildest
homebrewer setups I can find. The function of the page will be to view one or
two pictures of extraordinary equipment and to link to the brewer's own page
if he or she has one.
It seems that I've found alot of brewers who have great brewing stuff but do
not have a web site of their own to showcase their work. We all benefit by
getting a look at these creative projects. And, hard as it is to believe, some
homebrewers with great equipment ideas are not on the web!
If you have or know of, unusual, interesting, exciting or weird homebrew
setups, send me a photo or two and and I'll get it on the web. I am especially
interested in showing the unusual, not just the fanciest. NOTE: This is not a
commercial project, it's just for fun, but I would consider turning into a
magazine article some day if any brewer mag wanted it. So, if you don't want
it printed just say so.
Alan Talman
2 Larkfield Rd.
East Northport, NY USA 11731
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:09:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: Canine Power Factor
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Dogs lead in a reactive load. Of course, power is toxic to dogs.
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site http://hbd.org
The Home Brewing Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:32:09 EST
From: OCaball299 <OCaball299@aol.com>
Subject: new batch
To the all-knowing collective:
I have a problem, which I've seen pass through the HBD in the past, and mostly
the response has been "Don't worry".... Well, I guess I'm looking for some
reasurance.
Last Saturday I completed brewing a 5gal batch of Marzen... yeah, I know it's
a little early... but in any event, I've smacked the pack (2308) and a couple
of days later it still had not expanded... I thought it was the temp in the
house... too cold. So I put the pack on top of my PC Monitor to try and get
it heated up... it expanded a little, but not the 1" as is suggested in the
instructions.
I created the starter and pitched the 2308 into the starter... no action. I
figured it did not kick in YET... so I just poured the starter starter into
the fermenter with the wort and placed the fermenter in the garage where I
could do a lager considering the current temps... In the Chicago area, it's
been around 40F. 2 days later, no activity. WHAT'S UP ????
I figured that I would just purchase another pack and start it, then put into
the Wort (assuming the first pack was DOA)
I also thought that I put the fermenter into too cold an area and the little
buggers are dormant still...
Last night I brought the fermenter indoors to bring back up to room-temp
(65-70F) and started another starter (little redundant) but this time with dry
yeast... coudn't wait too much longer. I pitched the starter into the wort
this AM, I get home from work and still no activity...
Any ideas/suggestions??? I don't want to pour this batch....
TIA
P.S. Keep the great info flowing... Long Live the HBD!!!
Omar Caballero - Aurora, IL
ocaball299@aol.com
"Today is only yesterday's tomorrow" - Uriah Heep
So have another Homebrew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 17:55:41 -0600
From: Scott/Colleen Sutherland <cssuther@swbell.net>
Subject: (no subject)
I currently have a basic three tier system and am getting tired of
dragging it outside to brew. What are the downsides of obtaining gas
burners and running gas lines in my basement to brew inside?
Any thoughts please send the my way
THANKS
Scott Sutherland
cssuther@swbell.net
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2653, 03/05/98
*************************************
-------
