Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #2608
HOMEBREW Digest #2608 Tue 13 January 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Re: phenolic extraction with RIMS/Malt conversion % (Steve Alexander)
Kahlua Recipe ? ("Alan Gilchrist")
Stouts & draught systems/ Pasteurizing kegs (Richard Byrnes)
"bitter beer face" (Jim English)
New Brewer, rationalization ("David R. Burley")
re: Keeping warm (Scott Clapper)" <sclapper@delmarva.com>
Gambrinus White/Light (Brad McMahon)
hi-temp ferment/Montreal (Lou Heavner)
Traquair House Ale & McEwans Scotch Ale (Paul Henning)
re: Keeping warm (Tidmarsh Major)
mash mixing, RIMS, fermenter temp. control, sparging (SBireley)
counter pressure bottling ("Spies, James")
Heaters for Mixmashing (Mashmixing, Maxmishing???) (Harold L Bush)
newbie brewing ("Bryan L. Gros")
re:Maintaining steeping temps (Tidmarsh Major)
re: Non Fermentation (PVanslyke)
Re: A question about yeast starters (LBarrowman)
sparging - when to stop? (LBarrowman)
Computer-Controlled Brewing System (Joe Stone)
newbie questions, vol 2 ("MMC Richard A. Kappler")
Sam Adams Scotch Ale (Loren Crow)
Newbie Questions (KennyEddy)
Extreme Brewing ("Schroeder, Curt")
Corn (Jack Schmidling)
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org.
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery@realbeer.com
Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org
Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:
Anonymous ftp from...
ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests
ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
AFS users can find it under...
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 04:52:40 -0500
From: Steve Alexander <steve-alexander@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: phenolic extraction with RIMS/Malt conversion %
This is a very difficult question to answer, One study
from (Von Narbiz, Brauwelt, 1979) indicates that thinner mashes
(4:1 and 5:1 water:grist, versus 3:1) had greater phenolic
extraction. The same study also shows that longer mashes (180
and 360 minutes versus 105 minutes) had lower phenolic extraction
(but worse flavor). Is cycling the water thru a RIMS equivalent to adding more
water ? Well yes and no.
Experience says that a RIMS doesn't create phenolic related problems, tho it'd
be interesting to see a test.
- --
How much malt is necessary to convert your adjunct ?
This depends entirely on how you treat your enzymes.
If you mash in at 65F, your beta-amylase will be toast before
it has a chance to convert enough starches to maltose. If you mash using a
60C/70C schedule you can usefully extend the hold time at 60C and get a complete
conversion and normal fermentability levels.
The rules of thumb are apparently based on single infusion mash conditions. The
whiskey industry regularly mashes using no more than 30% 6-row malt, a low
temperature mash and pre-gelatinized adjuncts getting maximum fermentability.
I have no doubt that 10% malt figures are possible.
How much diastatic power fron various malts ?
>From the BT 1997 Market Guide, some typical figures ...
Barley Malts:
US 6-row 140-160 Lintner
US 2-rows 110-130 Lint
Continental 2-row 60-110 Lint
US pale ale 100-120 Lint
Brit Pale Ale 40-60 Lint
Wheat Malts:
Crisp, Breiss & Gr.Western & Schreier 120-165 Lint
Brew.Prod., DWC & Gambrinus 70-100 Lint.
Rye Malts:
N.American 95-130 Lint
I wouldn't sweat the wheat malt conversion.
Steve Alexander
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:13:10 +1030
From: "Alan Gilchrist" <gilly@camtech.net.au>
Subject: Kahlua Recipe ?
Can anyone provide me with a Kahlua recipe ?
Thanks
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Alan Gilchrist
PO Box 1337
Stirling North Sth Australia 5710
gilly@camtech.net.au
Amateur Radio Callsign VK5BWG PF87SQ
Amateur Radio Packet Address :-
VK5BWG @ VK5SU.#MDN.#SA.AUS.OC
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: 09 Jan 1998 07:34:48 -0500
From: Richard Byrnes <rbyrnes2@ford.com>
Subject: Stouts & draught systems/ Pasteurizing kegs
Greetings Beerlings....
As St Patty's day draws near we start to plan our annual St Patty's
day bash, this year I've decided to add a stout faucet to my draught
system and I have some technical questions.
First off, I completely understand the balance of a draught system, I
haven't touched my regulator in almost 2 years, it's always at 13 lbs
for carbonating and dispensing, so that being said, here's my questions.
1) how many volumes of carbonation is optimal for a stout that is destined
to be pushed with a N2/Co2 blend?
2) I will be purchasing the variable restrictor stout faucet from Banner,
but in general, how many pounds of restriction does a stout faucet have?
Thanks!
(PS Any award winning "KILLER" stout recipes, either sweet or oatmeal
would be welcome.)
I've perused CP's latest book of World Cup Recipes, and the stout recipes
look interesting.
************************************************
A thought comes to mind, has anyone ever pasteurized a cornie keg before?
It would seem simple enough to drop it in a half barrel, fill the half
barrel with water, take the cornie out, bring th water up to pasteurizing
temps (155?) and drop the cornie back in for a half hour or so.
any thoughts?
Talk amongst yourself, now I'm verklempt.
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
Pre-Production Systems Analyst \\\|///
phone #(313)390-9369, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2@ford.com (_)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:44:02 -0500
From: Jim English <jimebob@mindspring.com>
Subject: "bitter beer face"
Stepped up to full volume boils on the last two batches of extract brews and
I think I may have screwed up in the specialty grain steeping area.
I adapted my old small-pot method and steeped in the full volume of water to
170 degrees F , removed the grain bag and proceeded as per usual.
I knew I would get much better extraction from the hops but figured, " what
the hey".
One batch is pushing 6 weeks in the bottle and is way bitter/harsh. I
haven't even tried the other (4 weeks) yet.
Did I extract tannins from the specialty grains due to the volume of water?
TIA
JRE
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:01:00 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: New Brewer, rationalization
Brewsters:
Like a lot of other new brewers ( welcome aboard), =
Kent Campbell says:
>I received a Homebrew Kit from my Daughter for Christmas, =
and a great book
>on the subject as well. It included a 3.5lb can of malt extract,
2 lbs of
>dried malt extract, a packet of Edme yeast with a 1999
expiration date, and
>some ?Fuggles? hops. =
>.............
> Added store bought bottled distilled water to 5 gallons....
Ooops. Just because it's distilled or some other kind of water
from the store doesn't make it sterile. Always boil and cool it before
you add it to your wort/beer. Chances are you're OK, so don't worry
too much about this.
>.............
>Placed the lid, and the airlock, and watched the thing pop at
about 70 to
>75 beats a minute for the first 36 hours, then slowly drop off to no
>activity in the air lock after about 48 to 60 hours. =
Well, there's your proof of fermentation.
BTW, the OG was 1.013 at about 75 degrees F.
Likely you read this incorrectly and it was 1.043 or 1.053 =
or whatever. =
> After 7 days, I took a sample
>from the carboy and tested the SG to see if this stuff was =
getting ready.
>To my absolute surprise, I got a SG reading of 1.013 at
about 64 degrees F.
Sounds about right for an FG .
> it sure seems
>to me that virtually no fermentation has taken place. =
Well it seems to me it has from your description.
>Any ideas would be appreciated.
Bottle it.
- ------------------------------------------------------
Remember, folks, not all alcoholism treatment centers are
based on religion and lying and rationalization is part of this
disease. If a true alcoholic could cure himself, beyond taking
personal responsibility for his dissipative actions, then he's
not really an alcoholic, by definition. If you believe you have a =
drinking problem and need help, seek out professional help
wherever you can and don't listen to an alcoholic for advice
on this subject.
- ------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com =
Voice e-mail OK =
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 9:00:19 EST
From: "(Scott Clapper)" <sclapper@delmarva.com>
Subject: re: Keeping warm
Hello good homebrewers,
I have a suggestion as to how to keep the wort warm. How about a fish tank
heater?
Scotty -- Bethany Beach, DE
Discretion is being able to raise your eyebrow instead of your voice.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:22:18 +1000
From: Brad McMahon <brad@sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Gambrinus White/Light
Automagical Mail Responder wrote:
>
> (Note: This message has been generated by a program)
> Andrew wrote:
> >I just got a postcard from my mother who spent Christmas
> in the Czech Republic; She spent alot of time in Prague
> and Pilz and writes
>"pilsener is free with lunch but water costs
> money" My kind of place.
Wow, never had that - at least not in Praha, but I never
went to Plzen, but sounds like she was having package meals.
Hope she didn't get ripped off...
>She brought me back four bottles of Urquell and one of
>"Gambrinus >White".
>The Gambrinus Dark broke along the way.
>Does anyone know what >Gambrinus White is?
She means Gambrinus Light - meaning in colour, not alcohol.
Just like Germans have "Helles" and "Dunkel/Schwarz"
the Czechs have "Svetle" and "Tmave/Cerne"
(There is no AHA category for Czech dark beers - although
you would probably enter them as German dunkels).
There is an upside down caret over the first e in Svetle and over
the C in Cerny. There are accents over the last e's.
Pronounce as such: "Svyet-lee" "T'mav-eh" "Chern-eh"
So your Gambrinus is in fact a true straw coloured Pilsner.
You will enjoy it if it hasn't gone off. This is likely
as Czech beers travel extremely badly, but it might still be OK.
Your best choice is to go over! You won't regret it.
The Czechs also rate their beer in Plato - though the usually
use a "%" instead of a degree. The Gambrinus you will try
has "10% svetle z Plzene" on the label and the label is
silver with a white (ah-ha!) diagonal stripe with Gambrinus in it.
Gambrinus svetle 10 is 4.1% abv.
I prefer Gambrinus 12 though - and all Gambrinus over Urquell.
Mest'an is my fave though.
I spent a month in Praha(Prague) in July/August this year
and collected heaps of labels along the way! It helps to
have a girlfriend who is Czech!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:05:17 -0600
From: lheavner@tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner)
Subject: hi-temp ferment/Montreal
From Dave in Dallas:
>>>>>
Not surprisingly, this high-T "excursion" has resulted in some esters
that I'd prefer not to have in the beer. My question: can this be
alleviated by extended lagering, or should I just proceed as normal,
get a less-than-optimum result, and chalk it up to experience?
<<<<<
Gee Dave, what a chance to experiment. I don't know how you'll end
up, but I hope you'll consider normal lagering some for extended
lagering for some, and no lagering for the rest?. Then you can do the
"double blind and deaf" (tm AlK?) taste test with you and some friends
to evaluate the results. Then let us all know how it turned out. I'm
no certified beer judge, but I might even make the drive up IH-35. ;)
On another note, I will be in Montreal the last week in January and
will have some free time, especially Sunday the 25th to check out any
interesting local beverages. Anybody from up that away care to make
suggestions? Merci, mon ami.
Regards,
Lou in Austin
<lheavner@frmail.frco.com>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:44:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Paul Henning <phenning@cs.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Traquair House Ale & McEwans Scotch Ale
Thanks to the tenacity of one of our local liquor stores, we are
finally getting some "bigger" beers in Iowa. Among the large
collection of Belgians and doppelbocks that have recently arrived,
there is a cache of Scottish beers, including Traquair House Ale.
That beer certainly lives up to the rave reviews I have heard on HBD
and elsewhere.
However, it also introduced a little confusion. I was expecting a
strong Scotch ale, which I had previously equated with McEwan's Scotch
Ale: HUGE malt aroma and body. Not that THA doesn't have malt; just
not so overwhelmingly so.
I'm wondering if someone wants to straighten out my beer taxonomy.
Are THA and MSA different ends of the same category, or is THA a
"scottish ale" rather than a strong scotch, or is MSA just an anomaly?
Thanks,
Paul Henning Iowa City, IA
phenning@cs.uiowa.edu http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~phenning
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:00:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Tidmarsh Major <tmajor@parallel.park.uga.edu>
Subject: re: Keeping warm
Nathan in Frankenmuth suggests that Tony Willoughby build Ken Schwartz's
fermentation chiller and perhaps use a ceramic heater to raise his
too-cold fermentation temps. I don't remember how cold Tony's
fermentation was, but for a more low-tech approach, how about using gallon
jugs filled with hot water (either from the tap or heated a bit on the
stove)in place of ice-filled jugs? It may provide enough warmth to keep
the fermenter in the proper temperature range while at the same time
retaining the admirable simplicity of Mr. Schwartz's design.
Tidmarsh Major
tmajor@parallel.park.uga.edu
Athens, Georgia (where it seems never to get too cold to ferment)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 11:10:51 EST
From: SBireley@renex.com
Subject: mash mixing, RIMS, fermenter temp. control, sparging
I have evolved as a brewer, like most on HBD, from extract to all
grain, and in the process tinkered with alot of ideas to improve the
process. Brewing appeals to the tinkerer in me and taking a hobby the
Nth degree is the only way I do it. I see this applies to many
others. To quote a friend it the high-end audio business " Anything
worth doing is worth doing to excess."
We have been brewing using a recirculating pump in the Mashtun for
some time with great success. Using a false bottom, magnetic drive
pump, four outlet sparging arm (courtesy of someone's RIMS page) and
thermocouple adapter for a DMM, we achieve excellent, stable
temperature profiles throughout the mash, fast boost times, easy (but
manual) temperature control, and good extract efficiency. We do 3
step infusion mashes and have found the key to be placing the
thermocouple probe in the outlet of the sparging arm and regulating
the heat based on temperature of the wort being pumped from under the
false bottom. Once the target temperature has been achieved, we
profile the grain bed to verify the target temperature has been
achieved throughout, then reduce the heat to maintain the target
temperature. We use an uninsulated sankey keg as the mashtun,
therefore, some heat must be applied to maintain the target temp.
This is not an automated RIMS, but it works well. Additional
automation is sure to come.
Though this has worked well for us, combining this system with an
automated mixing system seems like a good idea. We will have the
advantages of recirculation; clear wort run off, easy, fast boosts, no
scorching, and the advantages of the mixer; less manual labor, very
consistent temperature profile, and maybe increased mash efficiency.
We intend to build a mixer set up and experiment with it. Any comments
would be appreciated.
In response to KEEPING WARM, I use a light bulb in the winter to keep
the temperature in my fermentation refrigerator (in garage) at 55 deg.
for ales. This results in a fermentation temperature of 63 to 65
during high krausen,it drops off some after that. ( I wrote in about
this a few weeks ago concerning the effect of the temperature drop on
the taste). I use the same controller for temperature control of both
the compressor and the light bulb. The controller is for a heater and
I connect the normally open contacts of the relay to the light bulb.
When used for refrigeration, I connect the compressor to the normally
closed contacts. This seems to work fine. I think a home type
thermostat will work fine, but I think they are 24 volt. The 24volt
transformer is available from a hardware store and a 24v coil relay
from radio shack or like store.
Is there a preferred method for determining when to stop the runoff
during sparging? We use a lab quality PH meter to monitor mash ph,
but stop our runoff at 1.010 gravity. I'm sure we are leaving good
sugar in the tun, but we do not want to over sparge. Is there a rule
of thumb?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:34:30 -0500
From: "Spies, James" <Jams@mlis.state.md.us>
Subject: counter pressure bottling
All -
I just came into a few 5-gallon kegs cheap, and eventually plan on doing
the kegging/filtering/force carbo-ing/counter pressure bottling thing.
Eventually. As I was pondering the future, a question popped into my
head. If one filters the final product and then force carbonates and
bottles and/or kegs the filtered CO2'd beer, will the lack of yeast
preclude aging or conditioning of the beer. Removing all of the stuff
from beer is the reason that the Budmillors swill goes stale after
awhile. Will the same thing happen to my brew if I filter/force? Will
using a coarser filter allow some yeast to pass through? Perhaps some
of the collective wisdom on this issue can be shunted my way.
BTW, SABCO currently has reconditioned 5-gallon SS kegs on sale for $12.
Not a misprint, just rock bottom prices. I picked up three yesterday.
Point to www.kegs.com. No affilliation, yadda yadda, solely FYI. Hurry
though. At $12, they ain't gonna be there long.
TIA,
Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:37:03 -0500
From: Harold L Bush <harrybush@compuserve.com>
Subject: Heaters for Mixmashing (Mashmixing, Maxmishing???)
Hi- I've been netless, and therefore HBDless for just over 2 years and it=
s
good to be back. Glad to see Jack S. is still here, full of piss and
vinegar. For the same 2+ years, I've <not> been putting together my new
brewery, so I've returned to the HBD just in time to witness a good
discussion of mashing methods/equipment.
In the Tues., 1/6/98 HBD, Charlie Scandrett brought up the idea of using
low density heating elements as the impeller blades in a motorized stirri=
ng
device. My question is: how would you get the power to them? I guess th=
at
if you look hard enough, you might find an off-the-shelf slip ring type
electrical coupling to mount on the mixing shaft and run wires down the
shaft to get the power (I presume in the order of 1 kW) to the impeller
heating elements. I don't know if such couplings are available, or their
cost (it probably wont be cheap, since it would have to carry in the area=
of 8 amps at 120v). Anyone out there have any clues? I wont even suggest=
the option of building your own slip ring device. 120 volts and a
potentially wet environment (ZAP!) would make for too many design
obstacles for most of us basement machinists.
I, on the other hand, purchased a Rubbermaid cooler (10 gal) and a 5 qt.
pressure cooker with the intention of doing step mashing with steam
injection as my heat source. I assume that stirring would only have to be=
done while heating. Is this a good assumption? And could any
steam-hardened veterans (Charlie Scrandrett?) give me an idea of how long=
it takes to raise mash temps with steam injection. Motorized stirring may=
be a good idea for this setup.
BTW, for those interested in the ultimate in mash circulation simplicity=
,
I have invented the StirringSpoon (no trademark, so you're free to
infringe). It is a combination mash-mixer and wrist-forearm exerciser (as=
always, please consult your doctor before beginning any exercise program)=
consisting of a commericially available stainless steel spoon, friction
tape for secure grip, and a hole drilled in the end to facilitate easy
storage on your favorite hook. I don't plan to market it, but feel free =
to
contact me for details ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:46:33 -0800
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros@bigfoot.com>
Subject: newbie brewing
Richard writes:
>Howdy folks, finally have a few questions I feel are worthy of your
>time, but if they've been covered ad nauseum previously feel free to
>reply privately or ignore. ....
First, you should have one of several introductory brewing
books available. I'd recommend Miller's Homebrewer's Guide,
but whichever you like. These questions should all be
addressed in those books. And keep reading the digest.
> 2. My brewing setup is a little primitive as of yet. Mostly I do
>partial grain brews, I have just added an 8 gallon pot for full boils
>and a wort chiller to my arsenal. The question is re steeping
>(mashing?) temps for my grain. The recipes I get from books or my
>supplier (yes, I'm still at that stage) almost all say steep grains
>for 30 minutes at 155 F. ... If I look away for even a moment, it jumps
>as high as 175 F. From lurking on the list for quite some time, I
>get the impression this might actually be a good thing. How better
>to control temps, and what temps to use?
Not sure why your temps are increasing. You must be heating
the mash directly, and then you'll get some rise in temps after turning
off the heat. This is because the bottom of the pot gets hot.
Anyway, the more you can control the temp, the more consistency
you will get. But fluctuations in temperature won't affect your beer that
much. Except if you get much over 160F, you'll really start to
denature enzymes, and that will make for a very long mash.
Since you are apparently only mashing a couple or three pounds of
grain, I'd recommend using some kind of insulated box to put your
mash tun in. After a few trials, you can figure out what temp of
water (say, 168F or so) to add grain to so you can mash at 155F.
You can also try putting your pot in a 155 oven, if your oven goes
down that low.
>
> 3. I use two burners on my gas stove to heat/boil my wort. I get
>some 'burning' (carmelization?) on the bottom of the pot, very
>little, but its there. Is this a bad thing? ...
> 4. After steeping the grains for 30 min, Most of the recipes I like
>say add extracts etc and boil for 1 hr. Does time used to increase
>temp from 155 to boiling count? Are we talking a full rolling boil,
>gentle boil, what?
You want a full rolling boil. Two reasons: you'll get better hop
utilization and better hot break. A little scorching on the bottom
won't affect you too much, as long as you can clean it off when
you're done. You also want to boil for other reasons--you'll drive
off more precursors to DMS, a corn-like flavor you don't want.
You'll also sterilze your wort and concentrate your wort to the
right gravity.
Oh, the corn sugar thing. If you prime with corn sugar, you want it
all to be converted to alcohol and CO2. None should be left to
contribute any sweetness. In my experience, there's no difference
between priming with sugar, honey, or malt. Maybe others will
have a better explanation.
I could go on, but hopefully this is helpful.
- Bryan
Bryan Gros gros@bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA
Visit the Draught Board club website:
http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/index.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:57:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Tidmarsh Major <tmajor@parallel.park.uga.edu>
Subject: re:Maintaining steeping temps
MMC Richard Kappler asks, among other things, how to steep grains at 155F
without overshooting. What I've done for the past couple of
extract/specialty grain batches I've done is put the crushed grains in a
grain sock and put it in a stock pot with about a gallon of water heated
to 160-165F, stabilize at 155F or so (adding heat on the stovetop if
necessary), and place the pot, covered, in an oven set to "Warm" (~150F)
for 30min to an hour while I heat the 5 gallons of water for the extract.
I then drain the wort from the sock into the kettle and dunk the sock in
the hot brew-kettle water to rinse a bit more sugar, and then dissolve my
extracts and continue as usual.
Also, boil time is time at a boil, not including the time to come to a
boil. A full rolling boil is probably best for hop utilization, but I
usually go with more of a gentle boil, to help avoid boilovers when I'm
not looking.
Tidmarsh Major
tmajor@parallel.park.uga.edu
Athens, Georgia
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:06:06 EST
From: PVanslyke <PVanslyke@aol.com>
Subject: re: Non Fermentation
On Wed, 07 Jan 1998 07:13:05 -0600 , Kent Campbell <kencam@pobox.com> pos=
ted -=0A=0A=85 It included a 3.5lb can of malt extract, 2 lbs of=0Adried=
malt extract, a packet of Edme yeast with a 1999 expiration date, and=0A=
some ?Fuggles? hops. =0A=85 the OG was 1.013 at about 75 degrees F. Aft=
er 7 days, I took a sample=0Afrom the carboy and tested the SG to see if =
this stuff was getting ready.=0ATo my absolute surprise, I got a SG readi=
ng of 1.013 at about 64 degrees F.=0A=0AKent, I think your original gravi=
ty reading may have been miss read. Possibly=0Athe sample you took was fr=
om a portion of the wort that had not been=0Athoroughly mixed (you added =
the bottled water to the cooled wort). Five and a=0Ahalf lb. of fermentab=
les should have givven you an OG around 1.035.=0A=0AMy guess is you now h=
ave beer. Try a taste-test on a sample.=0A=0APaul VanSlyke >> brewin' and=
relaxin' in Deposit, NY=0A=0A
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:36:37 EST
From: LBarrowman <LBarrowman@aol.com>
Subject: Re: A question about yeast starters
Danny,
Sorry for holding out on you. I did try increasing the gravity of my starter
substrate to ~2# per gallon. I still start them off with substrate at
~0.5#/gal (1 pint @ 0 hours and 1 pint @ ~24 hours) until I have added a
quart. Then I add the higher gravity starter at 1/3 pint per day until the day
before brew day when they get fed twice a day. This methods seems to work
well. I get a lot more krausen and bubbling going on, but the amount of yeast
appears to be about same as before. Lag times have been acceptable, ~8 hours,
but longer, I think because my brew cellar is cooler this time of year.
I have been making 3 starters at a time from a single wyeast pack. My last two
batches have been 12.5 gal. using the first runnings to make a heavy. I have
had no problems fermenting out the heavies, the highest had a gravity of 1.106
and the other 1.102. So, I'm thinking the yeast is pretty robust. I used
Wyeast 2308 and 1318 respectively.
Laura
Charlotte, NC
Subj: A question about yeast starters
Date: 98-01-09 10:03:06 EST
From: DBreidenbach@nctm.org (Danny Breidenbach)
To: LBarrowman@AOL.COM
Laura,
In HBD 2556, 11 Nov 1997 you wrote:
"I have had great success (lag time ~3 or 4 hours) by pitching my
starters into a gallon jug with 1/2 pint wort and then feeding them 1 pint
per day until the day before brew day when they get 1 pint every 12
hours. (starter substrate: 1# DME per 2 gallons) I usually end up with ~3
quarts final starter volume. I hate dumping off the liquid before I pitch
because there are so many yeast cells suspended in it. I think the lazy
(or dead) ones are lying on the bottom.
"I am thinking about changing my method slightly to keep the starter
volume down. Using my previous method (dilute wort), I would get the
starter volume to ~1 quart and then begin adding small amounts (1/4 pint)
of higher gravity wort. (substrate: 1# DME per 1/2 gallon) I think my yeast
food is too dilute. By changing the gravity of wort fed, water is the only
thing eliminated, resulting in the same amount of substrate (at the same
rate) to the yeast cells."
Any updates? I'm curious to know if you tried your new idea to keep
starter volume down and how it worked. Please let me know, I'm an
inactive brewer getting geared up to go again, and I'm trying to figure out
how to manage my yeast pitching, etc.
Thanks,
- --Danny
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:55:40 EST
From: LBarrowman <LBarrowman@aol.com>
Subject: sparging - when to stop?
Some time ago I pleaded for help improving my mash efficiency. I am happy to
say you all helped out a lot and I am finally getting the gravities I was
looking for. My biggest improvement has come from slowing my sparge rate to a
tiny trickle.
I have been having to stop spraging when my boil pot is full. The gravity of
my run-off has been between 1.026 & 1.030 when I stop. This seems a little
high to me. Should I be sparging out more wort? Should I track gravity or pH
(or both) to indicate when to stop?
Thanks again all,
Laura
Charlotte NC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:28:22 -0800
From: Joe Stone <joestone@cisco.com>
Subject: Computer-Controlled Brewing System
I started designing my computer-controlled, RIMS-based
brewing system in September 1994 with help from Bob "Mac"
McIlvaine and others on the HBD. I brewed my first batch of
beer with it in December 1994. I completed the final (?)
phase of the brewing system in September 1996.
I have finally completed (?) a web page describing the
system,
http://www.employees.org/~joestone/Sbs/
Yeah I know, "On no, not another brewing system web page."
But this is my way of saying thank you to those who helped
me and share the design with others.
The web page design certainly won't win any awards, but
hopefully the content will adequately convey the brewing
system design, stimulate thought and spark new ideas (which
you are obligated to share with me :-).
I've invested well over $5,000 in the brewing system (I
have over $4,000 in receipts). And while the cost may be
impractical, I think there are several very practical design
points which could easily be extended to other less-
expensive, less-automated brewing systems.
I purchased the IBM 80286 PC-AT, monitor and the ADIO
(analog/digital input/output) board surplus for under $30.
This, coupled with a $17 SSR (solid state relay), a $3 solid-
state temperature sensor and a surplus five volt power
supply, forms a simple, elegant and fully programmable RIMS
controller.
The computer controls four solenoid valves, two pumps, two
electric heater elements and monitors two temperature
sensors and three water/wort level indicators. An animated
graphical user interface shows times, temperatures, flow
rates, wort/water levels, ..., pumps "pump", water/wort
"flows", flames "flicker", ... The state of the entire
system is logged to a "batch" file once every minute.
The web page also describes: an $80 gear-driven MaltMill-
based grain mill with a 15 pound hopper; a 12 gallon
temperature-controlled cylindriconical fermenter; and an
eight keg, six faucet keg dispenser.
Please take a few moments to check it out...
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:03:25 -0500
From: "MMC Richard A. Kappler" <KAPPLERR@swos.navy.mil>
Subject: newbie questions, vol 2
Thanks so much for the posts I have received so far, and for those
hopefully still coming. I have a gazillion of these, but am trying
not to flood the list. Also I find that, as you fine folk answer the
questions I have already asked, you also inadvertantly answer some I
was about to ask. So, on to vol 2.
My querry about growing and mashing barley in vol 1 should have read
growing and MALTING barley, sometimes the fingers get confused. I
got several excellent arguements for switching immediately to all
grain (not to revive a recent heated thread:-) and eventually intend
to, but right now I am most concerned with refining technique and
learning processes. I'm an engineer, I usually want to know how
something works before I try to work it.
1. I used a cash Christmas gift to make a wort cooler, and the thing
works great, 212 to 75F in 16 minutes vice a few hours. Doesn't the
copper react with the wort though? I know that copper easily gives
off ions and readily reacts with so many other compounds and
substances, how does it react here?
2. I switched early to the 5 litre kegging system vice bottles, and
absolutely love it. The one problem I had was having enough to fill
4 kegs and a couple bottles. When I bought my 8 gal pot to do full
boils, I started making bigger batches (5 1/2 - 6 gal instead of 5
gal) and voila! the problem was solved. At the same time, upon
recommendation of another homebrewer whom I don't remember, started
straining my wort as I transfered it to the primary, removing most of
the hop residue. I cracked the first keg using these two changes the
other night and was very disappointed. I had brewed 'sea bass ale'
from a recipe I have used frequently with nary a problem, but this
batch turned out kinda, well, watery. Not as much body as it should
have. Opinions?
3. One of the other lists I'm on is in a raging debate about fluid to
use in air locks. One side says always use something like vodka and
the other side says water. Opinions?
4. My brews typically ferment vigorously enough during the first few
days to bubble up right through the airlock and make a mess. One
brewer suggested I stop using the airlock at first and use a blowoff
tube to another container. Sorta makes sense. He additionally said
that when rapid fermentation has ceased and I'm no longer getting
effluent from the blow off tube, I have reached "high krausen" and
should immediately rack of to a secondary for better flavor. Up to
now, I wait until the airlock stops bubbling, usually a week -ten
days, then rack to secondary for about another week, prime and keg,
age for at least a month and enjoy. I'm so confuzzled!
thanks in advance, Rich
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:52:45 -0500 (EST)
From: lorencrow@earthling.net (Loren Crow)
Subject: Sam Adams Scotch Ale
Blessings!
Has anyone else (particularly you style officionados) tried the new Sam
Adams Scotch Ale? I love the taste of it, and the alcohol level seems about
right to me. Having never had a Scotch Ale before, though, I can't tell
whether the taste is right. It does seem too highly carbonated for a beer
that's supposed to have "very low carbonation." I love the beer, but I'm
also interested in whether it's to style. Any comments?
Thanks,
Loren
==========================================================================
# Loren D. Crow, Ph.D. ++ Office Phone: (903) 927-3219 #
# Department of Religion ++ Fax: (903) 938-8100 #
# Wiley College ++ #
# 711 Wiley Avenue ++ Email: lorencrow@earthling.net #
# Marshall, TX 75670 ++ #
==========================================================================
Even God cannot change the past.
- Agathon (quoted by Aristotle, NE 6:2,1139)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:01:46 EST
From: KennyEddy <KennyEddy@aol.com>
Subject: Newbie Questions
Kent Cambell has some newbie questions.
"This is my first post to this list, and you will surely discover that I am
a neophyte. Now with that admitted and acknowledged, I will, with great
trepidation, post a question that will surely show my ignorance."
Welcome Kent! The only thing that would show ignorance is NOT asking
questions.
"I received a Homebrew Kit from my Daughter for Christmas, and a great book
on the subject as well. It included a 3.5lb can of malt extract, 2 lbs of
dried malt extract, a packet of Edme yeast with a 1999 expiration date, and
some ?Fuggles? hops.
I read up on how to do this procedure, sanitized everything as well as I
could think with Clorox, rinsed well, boiled everything for 45 minutes,
followed the instrucs on the Hops (steeped like tea in the last 15 minutes
using a straining bag), cooled the wort to about 75 degrees F by using a..."
I assume then if the instructions said to simply steep the hops for 15
minutes, the extract must be pre-hopped for bitterness. 15 minutes isn't long
enough to get any significant bitterness from the hops (most brewers boil
bittering hops at least 60 minutes). If the extract was indeed pre-hopped,
then fine, but if not, you can expect a sweet product with little bitterness.
"...sink bath around the pot (tap water was about 43 degrees, so got a quick
cool down in my 14 qt. pot), and put it in the Carboy. Added store bought
bottled distilled water to 5 gallons, and added the yeast which had been
hydrated in a pint of boiled and cooled water, placed in a sterile half
gallon container to which was added about 4 tablespoons of the canned malt
extract mixed in a quart of 95 degree boiled and cooled water. That had
been left to start for about one hour while the wort was prepared. "
So far so good, sorta. Careful with the "store bought" water. A recent
thread here indicated possibility of contamination, since not all bottled
water is "sanitized" (some is UV samitized and some is packaged tap water, so
who knows?). That said, I made many of my first beers topping off with
straight tap water without infection, but YMMV.
Also, the yeast package normally contains sufficient nutrients for starting
the culture, so adding sugar/extract to the rehydration may not be necessary.
Check the package to be sure. I don't suppose it hurts to add it though,
especially if the package has no information or specifically instructs you to
do so.
"Placed the lid, and the airlock, and watched the thing pop at about 70 to
75 beats a minute for the first 36 hours, then slowly drop off to no
activity in the air lock after about 48 to 60 hours. "
Sounds good. Many first-time brewers experience very quick fermentations
(often due to high ambient temperature), or no activity at all (often
resulting from a poor lid seal; the CO2 escapes through the leak rather than
the airlock).
"BTW, the OG was 1.013 at about 75 degrees F. After 7 days, I took a sample
from the carboy and tested the SG to see if this stuff was getting ready.
To my absolute surprise, I got a SG reading of 1.013 at about 64 degrees F.
Now I know that there is an adjustment for temperature, but it sure seems
to me that virtually no fermentation has taken place. What is the deal?
Can I save this batch by re pitching with new yeast? Why didn't the
sugars..."
With the amount of extract you specified, you should have had an OG (5 gal) of
about 1.042. What probably happened is that you didn't mix the wort with the
top-off water well -- the heavier wort sank to the bottom, and you took your
hydromerter sample from the dilute liquid on top. This is a fairly common
"mistake" that i can recall making once or twice till I figured it out. The
fermentation activity would have mixed everything well, so that solves that
problem. 1.013 is a reasonable finishing gravity for this OG, but give it a
couple more days at least, just to be sure (and to prevent overcarbonation in
the bottle). Your beer should be just fine.
*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:19:22 -0700
From: "Schroeder, Curt" <cschroed@ball.com>
Subject: Extreme Brewing
With respect to High Altitude Brewing I'd like to share my vision of it
as being part of a bigger class of brewing feats...."Extreme Brewing"
Operation: Hypoxia is an example of "Extreme Brewing" which was a fun
adventure, plus it can get your club publicity and helps promote
homebrewing. IMO "Extreme Brewing" isn't constrianed to altitude, but
could be brewing: on tall buildings, on the pitchers mound at Dodger
Stadium, at the North Pole or like a club did in Arizona a few years
back have a brew-a-thon to see how many batches could be brewed in 24
hours. The idea is a brewing activity that someone says "That's neat I
wish I'd thought of that" I just love to hear about such adventures and
encourage others to join in Extreme Brewing it's alot of fun. It all
started with something as tame as brewing during a campout.
Disclaimer: Make sure the legality and safety of any such activities are
fully investigated and deemed safe and legal before attempting such
activities.
Curt Schroeder
Tribe Homebrew Club, Longmont, Colorado
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:13:59 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf@mc.net>
Subject: Corn
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: beer with mass appeal
"Corn really adds to this style of beer, doesn't it?
What a shame it's so denigrated.
Corn is a wonderful flavor adjunct to our bag of tricks. The
reason it is so denigrated is because the megabrewers use it to
reduce the cost not to enhance or alter the flavor.
Fact is, most of them do not even use corn. They use corn syrup
which has been stripped of all flavor and contributes nothing but
fermentable sugar. It's a bit like intraveneous drugs. There is
no need to even use malt because no enzymes are required.
The end product is fermented corn sugar not beer.
From: The GasFamily <gasman@navix.net>
Subject: Source for MashMixer motors - Surplus Center
"They have 20+ AC Gear motors - one that looks like the one on the
MixM page goes for $6.99 (Item 5-1138) - but it is 42 RPM and rated for
Intermittent duty - an hour or two may be tolerated.
An hour or two is exactly what "intermittent duty" is not. This
is definitely not an application for intermittent duty. That implies
several minutes not hours.
From: "C.W. Hudak" <cwhudak@gemini.adnc.com>
Subject: Fixing my enamel pot
"I've searched the archives but keep coming up with nada.
I'm looking for a product to repair the chips in my enamel on steel
brewpot.
I quit selling EM is kettles because of the chipping from shipping
damage. In trying to sell them at discount, I tried all sorts of
things and have concluded that nothing exists that I would want in
contact with my boiling or mashing wort. The heat resistance is
easy but the potential liability from selling it is too great.
There is a stainless charged epoxy that cures at around 400F that
will then tollerate the flame under the pot but like I said, I would
not use it on the inside. You can cure it just by holding it above
a flame for a few minutes.
I used the same kettle for 20 years and boiled maple syrup, fish and
beer in it over the years. All I ever did was to rub a little
Vaseline on the bare metal before putting it away and wiping it off
when I wanted to use it again.
There still not nothing else on market that can get one into
real brewing for even twice the cost.
From: michael rose <mrose@ucr.campus.mci.net>
Subject: mass appeal beer, mixmasher
" mixmasher comments: I'm in a slow process of building a rims system.
If my understanding of rims is correct, then one drawback is the slow
temperture rise. Wouldn't a person be able to turn on the mix masher,
then fire up a 200,000 BTU burner under it?
Nice try but you would have to churn so fast you couldn't keep it
in the kettle. Scorching is a potential problem with both systems
and probably more difficult to control with a flame.
I suspect there is not much difference in allowable temperature rise
rates of the two approaches. I don't have a good handle on the rates
but it usually takes about 45 minutes to raise my mash from 155 to 175F
without any concern for scorching. I could do it faster but then
I would have to "worry" and we don't want to do that, do we?
js
- --
Visit our WEB pages:
Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp
Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf
ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2608, 01/13/98
*************************************
-------
