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HOMEBREW Digest #2603
HOMEBREW Digest #2603 Wed 07 January 1998
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
MIXMASHER vs RIMS (Jack Schmidling)
Easier Sterile wort Oxygenation ("Rich, Charles")
verdigris (Edward J. Basgall)
High Altitude, Quadruple (Alpinessj)
Yeast ("Dr. Dwight A Erickson")
RE: Schmidling take him off the digest (imott)
Jack has invented an ANAGRAM(R)!! (Charlie Scandrett)
High Altitude Brewing Record ("Brian M. Rezac")
beer with mass appeal, beer bottle labels (Lou Heavner)
Dubbel,Tripple (Jim Wallace)
Siebel from George & Jethro ("Rob Moline")
Re: TIN (Kyle Druey)
Yeast and beer: A match made in heaven ("Pat Babcock")
Chicago Meeting ("Rob Moline")
PUR water filters for brewing water (Dan Cole)
Keeping Warm (Tony Willoughby)
Food-grade plastic ("Fred L. Johnson")
Black and Tans (Lau William WT)
Upcoming BJCP Registered Homebrew Competition in the Northeast ("Reed,Randy")
Allergic reactions (Doug Moyer)
Saranac Winter Wassail - spices ("Taber, Bruce")
OOOPS ("David R. Burley")
NA Beer purchase (PVanslyke)
Freezing Hops? ("Gregg Soh")
Caramelization/Fermentables (Paul Ward)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:13:50 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf@mc.net>
Subject: MIXMASHER vs RIMS
I will try not to be redundant and address the same comment more than
once but I would like to point out to the critics of usenet, that
Dion and I worked out our difference several days ago while the
rest of the world was queing up for the Digest. I don't ever recall
there being such a delay between reading something and getting a
response posted. Something to think about but so is the fact that
the Digest seems to be working well in general.
First my response to Dion...
Dion Hollenbeck wrote:
" Given Jack's description, what it does NOT provide is the ability to
walk away for the entire duration of the mash and be ensured that the
temperature would be automatically maintained....
Right but as I also mentioned, anyone taking the trouble to design
and build something like a RIMS in not likely to be uninterested in
watching it do its thing. After all, if we wanted automatic beer,
we would go out and buy it.
" What it also does not provide is the crystal clear wort ready
for the kettle that a RIMS does. Yes, you can vorluff after mashing and
turning off the stirrer, but that is extra work not necessary with a
RIMS.
If that means, turning off the stirrer, letting it sit for 20 minutes
and sparging, I plead guilty but I don't see what connection that has
with the clarity of the wort.
" As well, Don Put published an article in BT a while back showing in
detail how to make a motorized stirrer with SS paddles and I saw his
system at his house a year or more before the article.
I don't recall the time frame or sequence but I do recall comparing
notes with Don Put years ago. In fact, he sent me some photos of his
which I guess ended up in the article. My recollection of it now is
that the paddles were a bit beyond what I would call simple for the
average person to build. The fan blade I use is off the shelf and cheap.
I didn't invent it anymore then I invented the MALTMILL(R) and I am
only interested in presenting another alternative to the tedium of
stirring or the er/ah less than optimal insulated cooler approach to
folks who do no wish to deal with the far more complex RIMS. These
things tend to die and be forgotten after an article is published
but the web has long legs so I thought I would try to bring it out
again.
" But all that aside, the MixMasher will never relegate RIMS to the
museum.
Right. People still use false bottoms and Coronas in spite of my
condescending comments :)
" the tradeoff is automatic temperature control and
crystal clear wort ready for the kettle without manual vorluff.
I still have a problem with this. I guess I do not understand
what you mean by "manual vorluff" perhaps because I am missing
something in my understanding of RIMS.
For the record, I connect a pipe from the mashtun to the kettle,
open the spigot on the EASYMASHER, adjust an overhead valve
(from the sparge tank in the loft) to match the outflow and
shut them both off when the kettle if full.
We could argue about who has the clearest wort but I don't see
how you can do any less than I do to get the kettle full.
js
From: Kyle Druey <druey@ibm.net>
"This seems like a good recipe for hot side aeration. How can the wort
be prevented from absorbing oxygen during mashing temps with all the
mash gushing up the sides?
Perhaps a poor choice of words. Gushing provides a good visual image
but at 30 RPM, "flow" would be more appropriate. Like so many other
buzzwords, HSA makes great raw material for articles and books but
I am skeptical as to how it applies to the relatively slow movement
and temperatures we deal with during mash.
I would also point out that RIMS is subject to the same sort of
effect. The liquid at the surface is continually in motion and
being exchanged so the opportunity for oxygen transfer in or out
is about the same as continual mixing.
"So if you slow the blade down to eliminate the mash gushing and hot
side aeration, you probably end up with a temperature gradient in the
mash.
Bad assumption.
"A well designed RIMS will not need *continuous* monitoring during the
mash.
Neither does a kettle. Once every 15 minutes is often enough.
"It is alot of fun to use your RIMS and set the exact temp....
I never challenged the "fun" aspect. Just keep in mind that we
all have different ideas about what fun is.
"Seems like you will continually be trying to add thermal
infusions into your mash to overcome heat losses with the mixermasher.
So do you just that mine requires human intervention. But again, I
challenge the "continually".
" In my opinion, this system will not produce the same level of mash
process control as RIMS for the reasons listed above....
Given but some folks make beer for beer's sake and some folks make it
to exercise there interest in "process control". Bottom line for
the majority, I suspect, is how the beer turns out. Can you taste
that (.1) degree temperature control?
From: Scott Murman <smurman@best.com>
"From one who mashes in an insulated cooler (aka Gott/Rubbermaid)
- doing so requires stirring....
During the entire mash? What is the point in using an insulated
cooler then?
" and you can have as complicated a step program as you'd like.
Well, I am always willing to learn something. Just how do you do that?
js
- --
Visit our WEB pages:
Beer Stuff.........http://ays.net/jsp
Astronomy.......http://user.mc.net/arf
ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:41:20 -0800
From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich@saros.com>
Subject: Easier Sterile wort Oxygenation
Hopefully this'll make up for my hydrometer howler, although some liked
it for quick, rough and ready readings.
I needed to oxygenate a sterile pint jar with 100ml wort this holiday,
but had run out of O2. Necessity being the mother of invention, and
having just finished George and Laurie Fix's new book (a nifty read), I
tried a variation of the weak yeast oxygenation described there, and it
appears to have worked well.
By putting the partially opened jar of wort into an empty cornelius keg
and letting it soak under 60 lbs of air overnight, the result appeared
much better aerated than I've achieved with an airstone in such small
quantities of wort, and the yeast responded vigorously.
This seems a lot less intrusive than plunking a stone in a jar of wort
and frothing away, especially if only using air. Naturally, everything
needs to be clean and sanitized beforehand, so let me just describe the
main steps and leave sterile technique to your own shop standards.
Open the pre-canned jar of wort by bending one side of the lid up about
1/8 - 1/4" to expose a gap for gas exchange, then loosely fit a canning
ring to hold things together. Next, twist a length of wire around the
jar's neck with a long piece sticking up so you can lower and retrieve
the jar into the keg. Put it in, seal the keg, pressurize with air and
let soak, Presto! Well aerated sterile wort.
I haven't used this with O2 yet, but one can over-oxygenate. I'd be
tempted to soak at lower pressures and agitate the wort afterward to
relieve some of the O2 saturation. Although new cornelius kegs are
rated for over 100 psi, dents and dings weaken them, don't go too high
if using a dinged up keg.
Cheers
Charles Rich (Seattle, USA)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:26:02 -0500
From: ejb11@psu.edu (Edward J. Basgall)
Subject: verdigris
> It's LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of the test subjects) in rats is .71 g/kg.
I Have a 1/4 inch copper tubing that I use to O2 my wort. The
outside of the tubing is pretty. The inside spends its time filled with
either O2 or chlorine solution. This is not pretty. I need the verdigris
info in laymans terms.
Thanks, Mike Rose
P.S. I'm really very highly educated, but it's in the ARTS.
Hi Mike,
Sorry for the delayed response. I've been away and am just starting to
catch up.
An LD-50 of .71g/kg for rats simply means that .71g of pure vertigris fed
to rats weighing 1 kg(2.2 lbs) will kill 50% of the rats.
Now what this means in practical terms for humans is that it's probably not
a good idea to eat a lot of this stuff. For example, if a group of rat
homebrewers weighing 220lbs each eat 71 grams (~2.5 oz) half of them will
be expected to die.
I seriously doubt that 2.5 oz of the green stuff inside your O2 line will
leach out into your wort.
If it did you would have to consume the entire amount of wort at one
sitting to stand a 50% chance of dying, if you are a rat. Providing, of
course, that is is pure verdigris.
Real verdigris (cupric acetate) is produced by acetic acid (such as
vinegar) acting on copper oxide.
There are many green colored copper compounds in the world, some are even
used as nutritional theraputics to treat copper deficiencies. Basic Copper
Carbonate, for example, which is practically insoluble in water and
alcohol.
It would take a chemist to determine the exact chemical composition of your
green stuff but, I would relax and have a homebrew. You aren't likey to
overindulge in the stuff anyway.
Happy BrewYear
cheers
Ed Basgall
SCUM
State College Underground Maltsters.
Edward J. Basgall, PhD
The Pennsylvania State University
Surface Chemistry Group ejb11@psu.edu
Materials Research Institute Building Ph: 814-865-0493
University Park, PA 16802-7003 FAX: 814-863-0618
http://www.personal.psu.edu/ejb11/
Privilege does not absolve one of ecological responsibility.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:01:33 EST
From: Alpinessj <Alpinessj@aol.com>
Subject: High Altitude, Quadruple
High Altitude Brew
The beer in question brewed by the Longmont Homebrew Club was done as a one-
time adventure, I believe on Long's Peak. If Brian from AOB is lurking maybe
he can comment on it. I understand he was there.
Quadruple
Does anyone have an all-grain recipe that can approximate La Trappe
Quandruple?
If so, please post. Also, please don't just "make-up" a guess recipe. I think
this beer is really unique, especially the yeast strain.
Scott Jackson
The Jackson Backyard Brewery, Denver CO
"Bumin' for some Quad since Falling Rock ran out"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:44:46 -0700
From: "Dr. Dwight A Erickson" <colvillechiro@plix.com>
Subject: Yeast
If it's bad to leave beer and yeast together (past two weeks) in the
primary
fermenter (cause yeast breaks down = bad taste etc) why is it alright
to
have them together in the bottle after capping?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 12:49:39 -0800
From: imott <imott@opcode.com>
Subject: RE: Schmidling take him off the digest
>Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 07:19:40 -0500
>From: Evan Kraus <ekraus@avana.net>
>Subject: Schmidling take him off the digest.
>
>Take him off this forum !!!!!!
>All he uses this is for his own benefit !!!!
>It is a great sales tool for him !!!!
>GET RID OF HIM !!!!!!
Don't take anyone off this forum!
We all use this forum to our benefit!
He also has helped a lot of people by sharing his experience!
Page Down if you don't want to read what he as to say!
If you want to ban him from this list, you will have to also ban all
professionals, business people, and any others who might be earning money
for what they do...We wouldn't want to take the chance of wanting to
patronize them!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:51:14 +1000
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino@squirrel.com.au>
Subject: Jack has invented an ANAGRAM(R)!!
JS>I built my Mixmasher about the time that RIMS hit the homebrew scene and
JS>the more I learned about RIMS, the more it became obvious that it's
JS>popularity is primarily based on the fact that the Mixmasher approach had
JS>been overlooked as a far simpler and more obvious solution to most of
JS>the problems that RIMS deals with.
It wasn't overlooked, I have seem over a hundred in commercial and
homebreweries and they have been around since the industrial revolution. For
all your dislike of theoretical analysis you are a very practical man Jack.
However I don't think you can imply that a motorised MASHMIXER is your
invention by reversing the words and putting an (R) in front of it.
Since Sumerian slaves mixed mashes and had their speed controlled by
shouting and well aimed blows, there have been thousands of mash mixing
devices. The RIMS idea is even an old method of industrial process control
adapted to homebrewing.
Like Jack, I also earn money by designing and building machines, albiet in a
lot more pointy headed way. And all my ideas are refereed by experts in the
relevent fields. The MALTMILL, EASYMASHER & MIXMASHER could all stand a
little analysis, but let us have a look at Mash Mixing and RIMS.
RIMS is an external heat exchanger using circulation to coontrol the
temperature of a biochemical reactor, a mash.
Mash mixing is the stirring and heating of the reactor vessel itself.
In RIMS, two motions are happening, heat transfer/control and circulation.
In mashmixing, they are heat transfer/control and stirring. The common
processes are enzymic conversion and solubilising.
The control mechanisms for RIMS are "complicated" but very reliable and
accurate, transisterised temperature controllers and solid state relays. The
critical points are turbulent flow past the heating element and speed of
flow through the grain bed. These are critical because temperatures in any
boundary layer in the heating element section must not exceed 70C or enzyme
degradation occurs. Achieving "turbulent flow" speeds overcomes this. If it
exceeds 87C, degradation of the important class of head retaining proteins
begins, causing excessive loss of these during the subsequent boil. (Why I
don't exactly know. Most are lost in the boil anyway, but preheating by
decoction mashes and mashes rested for even 30 minutes above 87C can produce
less than a third of the class of "still coaguable protein" important for
head. That third is still usally enough, but it starts to get marginal) The
apparent downside for RIMS seems to be cleaning. (at the homebrew level
anyway) The bed flow speed should set it but not stick the bed.
Unfortunately heat element turbulent flow must be maintained so we can have
competing controls of the same motion, careful design is needed.
If the basic principle of RIMS has long been used in many biochemical and
food processes (including fermentation), why don't commercial brewers use it
for mashing? I asked one and his unsubstantiated reply was that the
excessive flushing by circulation had negative effects on polyphenol
extraction and resulted in less stable beers.
Commercial brewers usually use Mash Mixing. They have excellent temperature
controls for this process, but homebrewers generally don't. For example,
Jack turns the heat off at the target temperature and continues to
mechanically stir an uninsulated metal vessel. When he turns it on again
about 30 minutes later (half time at the footy?) the temperature has dropped
considerably.(I know it doesn't happen to you Jack, but elsewhere, the laws
of thermodynamics apply) This is a problem for homebrewers because we
usually can't build direct fired vessels that are well insulated.
I use steam injection into the standard plastic insulated reactor(The
products of the unsung Mr. Gott or the suggestively titled "Rubbermaid", we
Aussies call them "Eskys" after Eskimo cooler) to get around this, but I
still have to "watch it work" as Jack says.
The critical points in Mash Mixing are heat transfer, heat control and
oxidation and turbulence. The heat control is a specifically homebrew
problem, no insulation and no automatic heat source control.
The heat transfer problem is the formation of boundary layers and the
overheating of them. The speed necessary for turbulent flow to prevent these
boundary layers is greater than the optimum for low oxidation and shear
degradation.
Oxidation (HSA)is caused by any formation of a vortex or any folding
turbulence that includes air. The test for this is simply to observe the
motion.
Shear forces form whenever an agitator blade moves faster than the fluid can
flow past. These forces can squash and degrade large complex molecules,
causing flavour problems. I believe much of the "sewer/ onion"" aroma of
Australian industrial beers is caused by the willy nilly use of centrifuges
in the relentless search of cheaper, faster beer. They can also cause beta
glucan molecules to gel and stick your mash. For shear, Jack's 30 rpm is OK
for little vessels, 10rpm (2 metres per second)is the upper limit in
commercial sized vessels with far larger radius, and thus tip speed. However
the MIXMASHER uses an aerodynamic impeller in a fluid medium. You could get
the same result by bending the blades more like a ship's propeller and
running at half the speed. More mash mixing, less rpm.
The turbulent flow problem is usually commercially solved by mechanical
breaking of the boundary layer. If the turbulent speed can't be achieved for
vortex and shear reasons, the impeller is designed to pass less than a
centimetre from the heated surface so it disturbs and mixes the hot boundary
layer at low rpm.
Mash Mixing needs insulation and automatic control of the heat source to
approach the accuracy of RIMS in the homebrew environment. One simple
solution to this is to simply use two low density heating elements(large
surface area for the wattage) as your motorised mixing impeller and control
them with the same sort of controller/relay setup used in RIMS. This gives
no boundary layer problems at low stirring/low shear speeds, electronic
control and an insulated vessel. This setup is easily cleaned and simple.
What torque is necessary? Well, a washing machine runs at least twice as
fast(4 times power load) with twice the volume (two times power load)on a
1/4 hp motor. Using a 1/16 hp would be plenty.
Let me know how it goes if you build one.
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
600 miles warmer than Andy Walsh.
PS I agree with Jacks "greedy lawyers" comment. Ever tried getting a
pressure vessel certified? It is basically an unfused bomb and it goes
against any bureaucrat's idea of accountability to write SAFE and his
signature on the side of it!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:01:45 -0700
From: "Brian M. Rezac" <brian@aob.org>
Subject: High Altitude Brewing Record
In HBD #2598, George Schamel wrote:
> Rob Moline aka Jethro Gump said at the end of his Merry Christmas message
>
> > "Roger Grow is a member of "The Tribe" homebrewing club of Longmont,
> > Colorado. The Tribe currently holds the record for the highest
altitude
> > batch of homebrew. Thanks Curt!"
>
> I would like to know more about this highest altitude record. I live and
> brew at an official altitude of 9750 ft just SW of Denver and this is the
> first time I heard of a claim to the "highest altitude homebrew". Can it
> be true?? Is there someone else brewing higher than me?? ;-) Please
let
> me know more.
>
> George Schamel High Altitude Homebrew
> 10000 ft and still brewin'
And in HBD #2599, Tidmarsh Major wrote:
> I nominate my friend John Hillhouse, who used to live and brew in
> Leadville, Colorado, at somewhere around 10,500 feet above sea level.
In response to Mr. Schamel and Mr. Major, and to help clarify the Tribe's
high altitude homebrewing claim, here is an excerpt from the press release
sent out by Don Blake, president of the Tribe:
"Colorado Homebrew Club Sets High Altitude Brewing Record
On August 30, 1997, 8 members of the Tribe Homebrew Club of Longmont,
Colorado brewed a batch of beer on Colorado's highest peak, Mt Elbert
(elev. 14,433 ft.) in an endeavor they termed OPERATION: Hypoxia.
The 6 man, 2 woman, and 2 dog team packed all brewing equipment, beer
ingredients, and water up to Mt. Elbert's summit, brewed a batch of
barleywine, pitched the yeast, and then carried it all back down.
According to the American Homebrewers Association, of Boulder, Colorado,
this is believed to be the highest recorded elevation that any beer has
been brewed in the Western Hemisphere and is certainly the highest beer
brewed in Colorado."
The term, "Western Hemisphere", was used due to reports that someone once
brewed at the basecamp of a Mt. Everest expedition. This report still
needs to be verified, but the Tribe decided to just claim the record for
this half of the earth.
As the AHA Administrator, one of the eight OPERATION: Hypoxia commandos and
currently a member of the Tribe, I would like to issue a challenge to any
club or individual to beat the record. It's theoretically possible with
Mt. McKinley, Mt. Whitney and Mount Aconcagua, Argentina.
- Brian
Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association (303) 447-0816 x 121 (voice)
736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax)
Boulder, CO 80302 brian@aob.org (e-mail)
U.S.A. http://beertown.org
(web)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:42:40 -0600
From: lheavner@tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner)
Subject: beer with mass appeal, beer bottle labels
Greetings,
Hope the holidays were good for all. Recently, the notion of beer
with mass appeal came up. A CAP would have been my 1st choice.
Somebody, Ken Schwartz maybe, suggested an O'fest. That would be my
2nd choice. Well not really an O'fest, more of a North American
Vienna. Use 4# Pils, 4# Vienna, and 2# corn. It's a pretty colored
beer. Use an oz of Cluster for bittering and an oz of Libery for
finishing. I add half the Liberty at 15 min left in the boil with the
Irish moss (WTIM) and half at 5 min left. Definitely use a lager
yeast and lager it. A third choice is a Koelsch following the "old"
AHA guidelines. I use 7# Pils and 2# wheat malt and Hallertauer hops
at 1 oz 60 min, 1 oz 30 min, 1/2 oz 15 min WTIM, and 1/2 oz 2 min. My
own personal take on what makes these popular besides the light color
and minimal bittering is that they are lagered and that the FG is low.
I don't think people are opposed to moderate alcohol as much as heavy
body. Mash low (150 F) and I usually do a decoction mash on these.
These come in a little over $15 for a 5 gal batch including liquid
yeast. Of course they could be diluted to 6 gallons and that might
actually improve their appeal. And that is buying grain by the pound
and hops by the ounce. You could do better buying in larger
quantities.
Someone asked about label making software for Win95. My wife has
Printmaster Gold by Mindscape which I use when I make computer
generated labels. It's nice software, but I wish I had more
creativity and beer art available for my labels. More often than not,
I just use magic marker on the caps so I know what it is. But labels
are definitely fun when you give beers to your friends. The latest is
my Annexation Ale, an Extra Special Bitter. Those of you in and
around Austin would appreciate it more than the rest.
Cheers!
Lou - 2 blocks west of the Celis Brewery and 45 minutes till beer
thirty.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:28:17 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
Subject: Dubbel,Tripple
I am looking for some enlightenment for the terms single, double,
triple,etc..
I am aware of the stylistic definitions as to gravity,color etc but I am
very interested in the origin of these terms.
I have heard 2 explanations on this
1> the terms relate to strength X, XX, XXX... but this does not explain the
fact that double is dark and triple is very pale but stronger
2> the terms indicate the number of fermentations included in the process..
I am also curious as to the double and triple fermentation process. I have
seen a recipe recently that starts with a moderate gravity and calls for an
initial fermentaion, letting it complete, and then adding more
extract/sugar/wort in 2 more separate stages allowing it to ferment out
each time.
Why not add all of the fermentables at the beginning and let them ferment
out just once?
What are the advantages to this triple fermentation?
___________________________________________
JIM WALLACE ... jwallace@crocker.com
www.crocker.com/~jwallace
___________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 21:31:02 PST
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer@ames.net>
Subject: Siebel from George & Jethro
Hi All,
Here we are, sitting in Rob's room at the Leaning Tower Hotel in Chicago.
Yes, there really is a leaning tower out front. It is a half-size replica
of the original. Quite, uh, interesting...
Siebel classes are pretty intense. 9 hours a day, with lectures during
lunch, too. Of course, the lounge with Pilsner Urquell and Tucher Weizen
on tap make things a bit easier! What fun! If high school was like this I
would have paid much more attention.
The weather is balmy, just like when I left NY. I don't know how it was in
Iowa...how was it Rob? "Ice storms." is his answer. He's happier here,
I would wager. "You betcha; Siebel's a blast!"
Well, we have to get back to , uh, studying, yeah that's it, studying.
Tomorrow morning's lecture is about the basics of beer evaluation. Must
review material in order to be properly prepared.
Have fun!
George De Piro and Rob Moline: both closer to Jeff Renner than we ever
thought we'd be.
(I'm using Rob's account to type this letter. I'm still checking my mail
at mailto:gdepiro@fcc.net, too)
Rob Here....
Yeah, the weather is strange, but the schooling is more than I
imagined....the staff and the student body being international, varied in
background and experience levels, yet the same thread keeps popping
up....the 'passion,' you know, that thing that put's 'fire in the belly!'
We are in very good hands, to be sure.
More later,
Jethro G.
Rob Moline
Brewer At Large
brewer@ames.net
Ames, Iowa.
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 19:07:35 -0800
From: Kyle Druey <druey@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: TIN
TIN - does anyone know if this metal is hazardous to your health, or how
it will affect your beer? If you are an ELECTRIC BREWER and are using
an electric heating element in any part of your process please post or
send me email commenting on what type of material your element is and
how it is working for you. (Kenny Schwartz: I sent email to you but AOL
kept bouncing it back)
I have always read that galvanized elements are a definite no no, and
that stainless is the only way to go. But what about the copper
elements that are plated with tin? Will the tin leach into the wort due
the high temps and low pH? Is the tin plating more susceptible to
scorching than stainless? If it does scorch how well does it clean up
and how can it be cleaned up?
I can't find a retailer that will sell me the stainless element, and I
do not feel comfortable walking into Grainger and making up a story so
that I can buy one from them. I have a stainless element now, but the
MPT connector is starting to corrode and I will need to replace the
element. Anyone know where I can purchase a stainless steel sheath
heating element?
Kyle Druey
brewing in Bakersfield, CA
Super Bowl XXXIII this sunday Niners vs. the Pack.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:01:28 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: Yeast and beer: A match made in heaven
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
"Dr. Dwight A Erickson" <colvillechiro@plix.com> Asks a good
question...
>
> If it's bad to leave beer and yeast together (past two weeks) in the
> primary fermenter (cause yeast breaks down = bad taste etc) why is
> it alright to have them together in the bottle after capping?
'Cuz premise #1 is wrong. T'isn't the yeast you're concerned about in
the primary, tis the break material. Huh? Consider this: if it were
bad to leave beer on the yeast of the fermenter, it'd be bad on that
secondary, too - some of which are months-long lagers. And, as you
ask, the bottled beer would be caput, too, capice?
Regarding autolysis, yeast could say "The rumors of our death are
highly exaggerated." (With profuse appologies to Mr. Clemens...)
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
AOL FDN Beer & Brewing Maven BrewBeerd@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 23:12:34 PST
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer@ames.net>
Subject: Chicago Meeting
Chicago Area Brewers....
The meeting of the Chicago Brewing Society (?) is on Thursday, the 8th of
January at the Goose Island brewpub....George de P. has arranged for Siebel
brewers to be welcomed there....
I have received multiple messages from area brewers wishing to get
together...
I propose that we be allowed to meet you there....
See Ya!
Jethro
Rob Moline
Brewer At Large
brewer@ames.net
Ames, Iowa.
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 06:03:07 -0500
From: Dan Cole <dcole@roanoke.infi.net>
Subject: PUR water filters for brewing water
I just recently purchased a screw-onto-your-kitchen-faucet PUR water filter
in an attempt to improve my brewing water and have a couple of questions.
I found the article at
http://brewery.org/brewery/library/FiltBrita0596.html about using Brita
filters and it suggests that the output water is close to distilled water
in its softness and may need to be supplemented with brewing salts, etc
depending on what style you are brewing. Has anyone confirmed this
(quantitatively or qualitatively)?
Also, anyone out there know if PUR is comparable in its effect on brewing
water to Brita?
TIA,
Dan Cole
dcole@roanoke.infi.net
Roanoke, VA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:30:31 -0500 (EST)
From: tonyw@Mass-USR.COM (Tony Willoughby)
Subject: Keeping Warm
I've got two problems that prevent me from fully enjoying brewing:
Maintaining a consistent temperature of my primaries and secondaries and
keeping 2 year old hands out of the same. (Off flavors are tough enough
without finding a 3 inch plastic Buzz Lightyear in your carboy :^)
I've been thinking that an insulated box, with a mechanism to maintain
temperature would solve both problems. Constructing the box is easy. I'm
trying to work out two issues:
1) What's the best source for heat? A light bulb seems the obvious solution,
but I'm concerned about the effect of light on my brew. Is sunlight the only
light that can skunk a beer or can incandescent light do it as well? If
incandescent light is a problem, what alternatives are there?
2) Thermostatic control. Has anyone come up with a solution for maintaining
an ale fermenting temperature? A Honeywell home-furnace type thermostat would
be ideal, but I don't know how one would switch a 120v line with the 6 volt
thermostat. (I'm no electrician, but I think I could follow simple
directions. :^)
Are there issues I've not considered?
Thanks much.
- --
Tony Willoughby | He that buys land buys many stones.
tonyw@mass-usr.com | He that buys flesh buys many bones.
phone:508-898-2600 x526 | He that buys eggs buys many shells,
fax: 508-366-3626 | But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
| - An Old English Saw
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:18:14 -0500
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Food-grade plastic
I read with great interest Curt Sutlif's question, "How does one tell if one
of these ubiquitous white pails is actually 'food grade' as they all seem to
be made of HDPE with various markings molded into their bottoms". I have
heard or read that all HDPE is basically the same and that "food-grade" HDPE
is merely cleaned up to handle food in the final stages of the products
manufacture. That is to say (and would like to have confirmed or refuted by
someone who really knows plastics) that HDPE that has been cleaned properly
with a good detergent is suitable for food products. This would include the
white HDPE buckets in which sheet-rock joint compound is sold and which are
so ubiquitous in new housing developments.
Dave Burley replied to Curt's question and basically said the same thing but
confined acceptance of non 'food-grade' plastic to white. However, I have
seen many greenish pickle buckets, so food-grade quality is certainly not
confined to the white ones, and I suspect that the color tells you little
about its suitability for food.
===============================
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:02:48 -0500
From: Lau William WT <william.lau@phwilm.zeneca.com>
Subject: Black and Tans
Does anyone know where I can mail order the fancy little spoon that pubs
use to layer beers (black and tans, half and half, etc.). My wife is
tired of finding bent spoons in the kitchen.
Private e-mail (william.lau@phwilm.zeneca.com) is ok.
Thanks,
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:10:01 -0500
From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed@foxboro.com>
Subject: Upcoming BJCP Registered Homebrew Competition in the Northeast
Brewers: Start your kettles!
This is just a reminder to everyone that the Third Annual South Shore
Brewoff is scheduled for March 28th, 1998. Entry deadline is March 21st and
all beer styles will be accepted.
The goal of the competition is to provide qualified, objective feedback to
amateur brewers and raise the level of experience and exposure to beer
styles within the South Shore Brew Club.
Any questions about the competition regulation, procedures, awards, etc.,
should be directed to:
Glenn Markel (GRMARKEL@AOL.COM) 508-226-3249 or
Randy Reed (RREED@FOXBORO.COM) 781-341-8170
Interested in Judging or Stewarding at the Brew-Off?
Contact Steve Rose at 508-821-4152.
You will soon find entry forms at any of the following drop off points. You
will also find the forms on-line on our web page.
http://members.aol.com/brewclub/index.htm
Drop off points:
Witches Brew
25 Baker St.
Foxboro, MA
(508) 543-0433
Boston Brewin'
281 Cabot St.
Beverly, MA
(978) 921-1559
Northeast Brewers Supply
745 Branch Ave.
Providence, RI
(401) 521-4262
Pawtucket Homebrewing Supply
66 Downes Ave.
Pawtucket, RI
(401) 723-3938
Hoppy Brewer
493 Central Ave.
Seekonk, MA 02771
(508) 761-6615
Barley Malt & Vine
26 Elliot St.
Newton, MA 02161
(617) 630-1015
Narragansett Homebrew Supply
Cherry Branch Commercial Center
Charles Street
Wakefield, RI 02879
(401) 789-3900
Brew Horizons
884 Tiogue Ave.
Coventry, RI 02816
(401) 589-2739
The Modern Brewer
2304 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
(617) 498-0400
The Vineyard
123 Glen Ave.
Upton, MA 01568
(508) 529-6014
Entries can be shipped to:
South Shore Brewoff
1053 Pleasant Street
Attleboro, MA 02703
Judging:
We hope you consider entering and/or judging this event. Last year we had
93 entries. This year we expect a good deal more, but wish to keep the
quality of judging very high. Judges must be pre-registered to attend.
The competition will be held in a well regarded restaurant in Cranston,
RI., just off Route 95. The judges will receive a gift and great food. I
hope to see you (and your entries) there!
- Randy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:08:09 -0500
From: Doug Moyer <moyer-de@salem.ge.com>
Subject: Allergic reactions
Fellow brewers,
One poster's comments prompted me to share the experiences of myself
and my brother and sister. (Obviously genetic in nature...) First, a bit
of background: I drink a wide variety of beer styles, from insipid
commercial swill to heavily hopped pale ales to heavy stouts to Belgian
ales, without any reaction 99.95% of the time. The reaction: My face,
neck and sometimes chest gets splotchy red. I can tell when I get a
reaction without looking in the mirror because subsequent drinks will
taste "off", undrinkably so. By brother and sister also have the
splotchiness, but without the taste alteration. Occurances: I have not
been able to detect any pattern. It can happen after one drink or many.
It can happen with a beer or a mixed drink (therefore not hops!). Beer
from the same six pack may not cause a problem on two nights, and then a
reaction on the third. There is no food correlation, either, that I can
discern. My brother and sister report the same lack of correlation, and
the same infrequency. My parents are teetotalers, so who knows about
them...
Has anyone else encountered something like this? Any explanation? There
isn't any discomfort--I just have to drink something else for the rest
of the evening.
Confused in Salem, VA (As an American, I can't find Ann Arbor on a map,
so I don't know where I am relative to Jeff Renner <g>)
Doug Moyer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:19:00 -0500
From: "Taber, Bruce" <Bruce.Taber@nrc.ca>
Subject: Saranac Winter Wassail - spices
Back on Monday, Jan. 5th, Jim Richardson asked about spicing suggestions
to duplicate Saranac Winter Wassail. I have never tasted this brew but
I have made a few great spiced winter ales so I'd thought I'd pass along
my findings.
First, I recommend that you make a spiced 'tea" to add to your beer.
This way you can taste it and adjust the flavor to suit. It also allows
you to test out how much you should add to your beer. Make a
preliminary batch of the tea before you brew. Then pour yourself a few
half glasses of your base beer (or something similar) and add a
different amount of the tea to each to see what level of taste you
desire. You will have to increase to final amount by about 10% to
compensate for the mellowing of the spices as the beer ages.
Next, pick the base beer you are going to brew. I use a Brown Ale that
is not too bitter (18 IBU). Excess bitterness will hide the spices.
I have tried adding the tea at racking and also at bottling. I found
that adding at bottling provides better spice flavor. I figure that
much of the spice flavor gets scrubbed out during the secondary
fermentation.
The tea recipe that I use has the same spices as Saranac Winter Wassail
except no allspice.
4 cups water
1/4 tsp. nutmeg
1/4 tsp. cinnamon
2 tbls grated orange peel
Simmer for 30 min., then let cool. The spice and orange solids
will settle to the bottom.
I add about 1 cup of tea to 1 US gal. of beer at bottling. You
may want to use a bit more.
I usually split off a gal. of my brown ale in the fall and make
only a dozen bottles of spiced ale. If you want to make a full 5 gal.
you will have to increase the tea volume.
I hope this helps. Have fun,
Bruce Taber
Almonte, Ont. Canada
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:59:16 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: OOOPS
Brewsters:
I got mixed up because of similar titles and accused Dave Hopf of wanting=
JackS off the HBD. I should have said Evan Kraus. Sorry, Dave.
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com =
Voice e-mail OK =
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:40:40 EST
From: PVanslyke <PVanslyke@aol.com>
Subject: NA Beer purchase
Hi all=0A=0AWith all the talk of NA beer on here lately, I thought I woul=
d pose this=85=0A=0AMy daughter works part time at a local grocery (in Ne=
w York State) and tells=0Ame that you have to be over twenty-one to buy N=
A. If there is no alcohol=0Ainvolved, why is this. Is this rule a state l=
aw or the store managers law. I=0Acan think of many other products that a=
re sold in the same store that containe=0Amore alcohol.=0A=0APaul VanSlyk=
e >> brewin' and relaxin' in Deposit, NY=0A
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:48:28 PST
From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos@hotmail.com>
Subject: Freezing Hops?
Hi all,
I was wondering if hops can be frozen. I know vegetables shouldn't be
frozen or they'll lose their crispness. I have opened-packs of hops
which I want to keep as fresh as possible (don't we all!). Besides the
customary ziplock bag and chucking into the refrigerator I was wondering
if I could do more to save the aromatics. What's the lowest temperature
that they'll take?
Greg
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:45:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Ward <paulw@doc.state.vt.us>
Subject: Caramelization/Fermentables
As I wasn't paying attention while sanitizing my priming sugar last
time, and ended up with a rather dark syrupy priming mixture, I got
to wondering if I was losing any fermentability by changing the
nature of the sugar/water mixture.
Caramelization definitely changes the nature of sugars, creating
products that last through the fermentation process (as evidenced by
decoction mashing). Does this change in sugar nature descrease the
overall fermentability of sugars? Does excess caramelization of
priming sugar mixture pose a valid explanation for a low carbonation
level in my pale ale?
Paul
paulw@doc.state.vt.us
- --
You know, I kind of liked Ebeneezer Scrooge before
all those ghosts scared the good sense out of him.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2603, 01/07/98
*************************************
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