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HOMEBREW Digest #2533
HOMEBREW Digest #2533 Fri 17 October 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
B.S., B.T. and B.W. on a D.D. B.D. and a B.M. (Charles Burns)
First Mash, First Judging (Andrew Ager)
pressure cooking wort (kathy)
Minnesota Brewfest Winners (Steve Piatz)
Re: Beer is my busines... (John Adams)
Re: Loose, dark sediment / How to win a homebrew contest (George De Piro)
Tips on force carbonation (Kinney Baughman)
Royalties... (Some Guy)
re: Stainless quick-disconnect connectors ("Michel J. Brown")
re: Rests and modified malts ("Michel J. Brown")
Insulating Sankey Kegs/Dial Thermometers ("Eric Schoville")
Re: Steinbier - the USGS speaks! (Scott Kaczorowski)
Bells Amber/Punkin Ale (EFOUCH)
Chemicals (Alpinessj)
Fast fermentation; keg pasteurization (Samuel Mize)
Belgian Red (Al Korzonas)
esters (Al Korzonas)
Cider and E. coli (Al Korzonas)
Advice on malt analysis please. (Jon Bovard)
Stuck or Done Fermentation? ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
Brew Schools ("Jeff")
RIMS questions (Jeremy Bergsman)
Fast Fermentation Followup ("Aaron Spurlock")
Those stubborn kettle stains ("C&S Peterson")
Instant-on water heaters ("C&S Peterson")
Wedding Beer experiment (Eugene Sonn)
Kolsh Bier (OCaball299)
IS ANY ? A BAD ONE? ("SCOTT DUBENDRIS....PHOTO TECH....375/X6039")
Phil's vs EZ-Masher vs manifold ("Alan McKay")
Iodine (Wesley McDaniel)
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JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 07:53 PDT
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: B.S., B.T. and B.W. on a D.D. B.D. and a B.M.
Brian S. (older half of the Yeasty Boys), Bad Thermometer and Bowl Weevils.
What more could you ask for on Brew Day. Brian saved the day. I'd been
planning this brew day for months. Ever since I began to think about
building that fermentation chiller so I could make lagers in the summertime.
Well, I built it, it works (pilsner is finally out of there) and Saturday
was the day for Deer Valley Doppelbock.
I opened the trunk of the car and pulled out a brand new 50lb sack of DWC
Belgian Munich. Yummy stuff. Then I took a little closer look -
UUGGGGHHHH!!!!! Teeny little bugs crawling out of the top of the bag between
the threads. Oh yuck! The dopplebock called for 7 lbs of munich malt and now
all I've got is bugs! Called Brian and told him "looks like we're not
brewing today". Brian had offered to help me with the decoction (after some
polite begging on my part). He said, "No problem, I'll pick some up at the
Wine Smith and be right over". Fantastic, we're back in business, just a
little behind schedule.
I've been suspicious of my thermometer's accuracy lately especially after
the last brew, a porter that was supposed to be fairly robust that actually
came out light bodied. Hmmm says I, wonder if I'm really mashing at the
temps I think I am. So, boiled some water stuck in the thermometer.
According to calculations based on altitude (elevation?) my water should
boil at 210F. Thermometer was reading between 214 and 215F! Bummer. So to
test the other end of the scale, I plunk the thermometer in a cold coffee
cup full of water and stuff it in the freezer. An hour or so later, its
reading between 39 and 40F. This is not good. I left it in the freezer
another hour. Big Mistake (Busted Mug). My favorite coffee mug (custom made
with my son's family picture on it) cracked in two pieces. Ice does nasty
things sometimes. Thermometer still reads 39F.
So now I know that I have to do arithmetic every time I take a reading with
that thermometer (yes I'm going to buy a new one as this one has no
calibration screw/nut). At least now I can understand a few things that have
been going on with the brews lately. I'm subtracting 5 degrees every time I
read the thermometer from now on.
So maybe you're wondering what the "D.D." was for in the title. Double
Decoction! I only planned on doing a single, but Brian says, if you want
malty flavors, you gotta boil the grains. So we did it. Protein rest at
138F, first decoction up to 158F and decoction 2 up to 170F. Sounds easy,
its a lot of work. We did get some burgers between 1 and 2 while the mash
took care of itself.
The target OG was 1.086 and we hit 1.091. And what a fantastic aroma! This
is going to be one hell of a Dopplebock. Its in the fermentation chiller now
and it should be ready for the holiday party. Mmmmmmmm, can't wait.
Thanks Brian.
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:05:57 -0500
From: Andrew Ager <andrew-ager@nwu.edu>
Subject: First Mash, First Judging
Thanks to all for the responses to my Mild recipe and mashing questions.
It seems I'll be able to consolidate the info and try again in November, as
this first run didn't work out quite the way I had wished. Actually, it
bombed. My Phalse Bottom came loose at dough-in, and grain got in the
spigot, in the tubing, under the PB. Of course, I hadn't noticed this yet.
After 90 minutes, I was going to set up the recirculation, and realized the
problem. pulled the mash out, siphoned some hot water through the spigot,
put the mash back in, and realized I had forgotten to clear out the
underside of the PB. Cursing ensued. Pulled the mash again, cleared junk
out of the way (or so I thought), and returned mash to the cooler. Still
clogged. At this point, I've spent almost an hour screwing around with
this thing. Argh! Decided to write it off, learn from the experience, and
make some small equipment improvements (as suggested by AlK the next day --
thanks again!), i.e., a copper tube rather than a plastic from the barb
fitting to the spigot. I might also pick up a ball valve spigot rather
than the barrel tap that's currently on there -- this might not be as
important.
Sunday was much better -- I judged for the first time in a small
competition. It was very interesting, and very worthwhile. Harder than I
expected.
And finally, as I was waiting about for the other judges to finish their
flights, Al distributed copies of his new book. I paged about, then got
excited, and wound up buying it. It's a primarily extract book, as far as
technique goes, but the real key is the wealth of reference info in there.
The Hops appendix has ~100 hop descriptions, and the yeast appendix goes
through (what appears to be) every damn yeast on the market, wet and dry.
Added to this is a series of recommendations based on style and attenuation
(want an Ordinary Bitter? Here's the best yeasts. Want a well-attenuated
beer? Here's the yeasts.) Plus, detailed tasting techniques and some
recipes. And more. I'm impressed. Highly recommended.
Cheers,
Andrew Ager
Program Assistant
School of Education and Social Policy
Northwestern University
andrew-ager@nwu.edu
847/491-3790 (phone)
847/467-2495 (fax)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:31:52 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth@scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: pressure cooking wort
I had two replies to my question about pressure cooking large amounts of
wort (15qts) and impacting (lowering) the fermentable sugars and raising
the final gravity.
One thought I had removed fermentable sugars and one thought not.
The beer tastes pretty good (is not too sweet) and appears to be a low
alcohol version consistent with the model of removing fermentable
sugars. With more alcohol, the final gravity would have been lower
given a fixed amount of unfermentable sugars. Incidentally, the yeast
bottle conditioned in 5 days so it was able to eat fermentable sugars
when provided.
My conclusion, don't P-cook large amounts of rich wort. Just because
you have a large canning type P-cooker that can hold a ton of wort,
don't. Unless of course, you want a flavorful low alcohol sessions
beer.
FWIW, YMMV, etc. Cheers,, jim booth, lansing, mi
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:10:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Piatz <piatz@cray.com>
Subject: Minnesota Brewfest Winners
The winners for the Minnesota Brewfest on October 12th can be found at
http://reality.sgi.com/piatz_craypark/winners.html, if you are unable
to read webpages let me know and I can email you the complete list.
- --
Steve Piatz Cray Research, a Silicon Graphics Company
piatz@cray.com 655F Lone Oak Drive
612-683-5268 Eagan, MN 55121
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:28:02 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams@fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Beer is my busines...
Kinney Baughman writes:
> About 3 years ago he called me one day to ask permission to use my
> .sig line, "Beer is my business and I'm late for work" on some
> T-Shirts he was doing at Little Apple.
John Adams writes:
> This year's Great American Beer Festival was the biggest and best to
> date. With over 1800 beers being judged and 1700 beers on the floor,
> beer is my job [business] and I am late for work.
Geez timing is everything! Sorry Kinney, I thought that I was stealing
this (great) line from Fred Eckhardt whom I first heard it from three
years ago.
The check is in the mail.
- --
John Adams
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:36:26 -0700
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Re: Loose, dark sediment / How to win a homebrew contest
Hi all,
Nathan observes a dark, loose sediment in his bottle-conditioned
homebrew. It formed at 58F (14C) after 3 weeks in the bottle.
At first, I thought that this sediment was chill haze that had settled
to the bottom of the bottle, but I wouldn't expect that to occur at
58F.
Next I thought that it may be a wild yeast. They often do not
flocculate well and, if they settle at all, may form only a loose
sediment. Nathan goes on to say that the beer is not infected, but
then describes a pleasant "all spice" flavor in the brew.
That could very well be added to the beer by a wild yeast! The spicy
flavor of HefeWeizen is attributed to phenolic compounds made by the
"domesticated" wild yeasts favored for their flavor contributions.
Not all wild yeast will make beer taste awful; some contribute quite a
pleasant spiciness!
It would be one explanation for your loose sediment. Perhaps there is
a better answer out there...
------------------------------
Don V. talks about his theory for winning homebrew contests. He
claims that bigger beers do better, and thus you should always brew
out-of-style on the high side. He even says, "Judges are after all
only human and respond to alcohol and hops." He also says that big
beers usually win Best Of Show (BOS).
My experience does not validate those statements.
Firstly, I've judged plenty of contests where in-style, normal gravity
beers have won BOS. I won a BOS a few months back with a very
"within-style" Bavarian HefeWeizen; hardly a big beer!
As a judge, I have tasted beers that seem to be too big for style,
especially in the American Pale Ale (APA) category. When this
happens, I will comment on the sheet that the beer seems too big for
style, but if it is cleanly made, it may still score decently. If
that score places it amongst the top three beers, it will win a prize.
You must pay attention to the judges comments, not just your placing!
Winning a contest does not mean you made a great beer. Not winning at
a contest doesn't mean that you're beer isn't great. The competition
may have simply been better, or the judges may have had an "off" day.
Pay attention to the comments. If the judge was good, they will
hopefully be informative enough to really tell you how your beer was.
There is some truth in Don's statement about hops impressing judges
(if the style should be hoppy). There is a phenomenon called "palate
fatigue." It refers to a deadening of the palate after repeated
stimulation by similar sensations. Hops very quickly cause palate
fatigue.
If a judge isn't careful to keep their palate fresh (by drinking lots
of water and taking time between beers), then a beer that is hopped to
style may BE PERCEIVED as under-hopped if it is the 8th beer
evaluated.
In this situation, an over-hopped beer may score better. Of course,
if the judges are doing a really good job, it may be described as
being too hoppy for style...it's a crap-shoot!
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:04:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <krb@porter.appstate.edu>
Subject: Tips on force carbonation
Steve Scott asked about forced carbonation:
40 lbs. of pressure for three days at 70 degrees F.
I advise against shaking the CO2 into solution. You're better off letting
the CO2 gradually absorb into the beer. Makes for smaller bubbles.
Cheers!
| Kinney Baughman | "Beer is my business and |
| krb@porter.appstate.edu | I'm late for work" |
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:06:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: Royalties...
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
OK. No more Mr. Nice-guy. I expect royalties from the next guy who says
"Greetings, Beerlings" without my express permission! Or "Have a good
beer at the end of each day as every sentence requires proper
punctuation" or "Beer is my obsession and I'm late for therapy", or any
o' dat crap I done spewed out over the net the past few years. What's good
for the goose is good for the asp in the grass! So there!
(Just kidding! This is intended in the same vein in which [I think]
similar comments were recently made. Remember: immitation is the height of
flattery - except where prohibited by law. Offer not valid in all states.
Quantities are limited. Refer to brochure to determine applicability in your
area. User responsible for all applicable taxes. And always read the fine
print.)
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock@oeonline.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org
Harvest THESE: rhundt@fcc.gov jQuello@fcc.gov sness@fcc.gov rchong@fcc.gov
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:44:36 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade@spiritone.com>
Subject: re: Stainless quick-disconnect connectors
>Does anyone know of a place where I can mail-order stainless
quick-disconnect
>connectors for ball-lock kegs? I would prefer flare fittings, not
hose-barb
>connectors.
Bud, try Stainless in Seattle. I've dealt with them in the past, and have
found them very brewer friendly. Their web address is:
http://www.beeronline.com
I don't remember their phone number offhand, but they will fabricate just
about anything you may need. My 2hL system was engineered by them, and it
was quite reasonable too. Standard disclaimers apply, just a satisfied
customer who looks forward to a larger setup (like 7~10 bbl)! Good luck,
God Bless, and ILBCNU!
Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C.
homemade@spiritone.com
http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
"Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!"
"Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!"
Big Man Brewing (R) 1996
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 10:15:40 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade@spiritone.com>
Subject: re: Rests and modified malts
>My question is this: In using well modified malts, what will be the
>difference in the wort (and hence my beer) between the schedule above, and
a
>single step mash at, say, 149 F or 156 F ?
By utilizing a 122'F rest, you produce more food for growing yeasts at the
expense of head retaining colloids (albuminous proteinaceous compounds),
especially for 30 minutes. Another rest at 149'F will saccharify your wort,
making more fermentables, while a 158'F rest will dextrinize your wort,
leaving less fermentables, but more residual maltodextrins for "mouthfeel".
Combining these two would result in a fairly balanced beer IMHO, but a
single step-up mash to 154'F from 122'F would accomplish the same thing
from my personal experience. I once made the same beer 12 weeks in a row,
simply changing the second infusion temperature by one degree. I discovered
it took *two* degrees to make a tastable difference in that particular
recipe (an americanized EPA). The real question remains: what do you want?
A balanced beer, or one that is highly dermentable, or one that is really
full bodied? For the first try 153~154'F second mash rest, for the second
149~150'F, and for the last 156~158'F. These values assume that you are
making a typical pale ale with a BU:GU ratio of 0.7~0.8:1, and an OG of
1.045~1.055. Good luck, God Bless!
Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C.
homemade@spiritone.com
http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html
"Big Man don't drink no stinking light beer!"
"Big Man drink beer what got BIG TASTE!"
Big Man Brewing (R) 1996
------------------------------
Date: 13 Oct 97 09:52:32 -0700
From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Insulating Sankey Kegs/Dial Thermometers
Collective: (Resistance is Futile)
Does anyone have any great ideas for insulating Sankey kegs?
I mashed for the first time in my converted, uninsulated Sankey,
and the temperature drop was significant. I really don't want
to have to apply heat every fifteen minutes to maintain
temperature. I have lots of R19 fiberglass house insulation
that I could wrap around the keg and duct tape down, but I am
unsure of how well this will tolerate temperature. I also
wonder how it would respond to getting wet from cleaning after
the mash? Any comments?
I guess my ideal insulation would be:
1) Resistant to high temps
2) Water resistant/proof
3) Possibly in the form of a removable "jacket"
- -------------------------------------------------------------
As my keg conversion process continues, I am looking for two
accurate dial thermometers that can be screwed in to a pipe
thread fitting. The ones that I have seen at one of the local
homebrew stores do not appear to be of very high quality.
Does anyone have any suggestions on brand or supplier?
Thanks in Advance,
Eric
Misplaced in Rainy St. Louis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:08:00 PDT
From: Scott Kaczorowski <kacz@nfs.aisf.com>
Subject: Re: Steinbier - the USGS speaks!
Someone (not really clear to me who) said:
> I think a great place to look would be a good-sized stream or river that
> carries rocks of the right size - like about fist-size, and look for a
> nice, well-rounded piece of granite, basalt, quartzite, or whatever.
DON'T DO IT! I know from experience that the rock is saturated with
water and *will* (not 'probably' or 'might', but *will*) explode on you
when heated.
When I was a Boy Scout, some chucklehead, even though we were repeatedly
told not to, put a river rock or two in the fire ring. Sure enough, a
very sharp flake about 3" in diameter came flying off one of the rocks
as we were getting ready to throw our banana boats in. The flake went
clean through both sides of a tent (and not no weight-conscious backpacking
tent, neither, but one of them heavy canvas one-of-the-dads-drove-it-in
tents).
Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA
kacz@aisf.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:16:46 -0400
From: EFOUCH@steelcase.com
Subject: Bells Amber/Punkin Ale
Date: Monday, 13 October 1997 2:13pm ET
To: Sendout
From: Eric.Fouch@STC001
Subject: Bells Amber/Punkin Ale
HBD-
In response to Mikes questions about Bells Amber Ale, their proprietary yeast,
which is specially farmed by a company under contract to supply only K'zoo
Brewing Co. with it, is readily available from the bottle. I have used it in
many brews with very good results.
As far as what kind of malt and hops they use, I'm sure nobody at the brewery
knows. At least that was the response I got to my innocous questions on a
brewery tour back in June (see the June 31 HBD for my brewery tour report).
In response to the pumpkin ale thread- where'd the flavor go?- I tried
sweetening the beer in the glass with sugar, honey and molasses (one at a
time) and didn't get the pumkin aroma back. People who tried my current brew,
made with 2#'s canned pumpkin stuff claim that my pumpkin brew from last year
(Which I mashed inside a cleaned pumpkin) had more pumkin flavor. My memory
isn't that good, I guess. I for one would be interested in seeing Mr.
Bentsons' baked neck pumpkin recipe. I'm assuming he steeps baked pumpkin
flesh in an extract based recipe in the secondary? Any starch problems?
SEE ya
Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YoctoBrewery
"Where gratuitous jovialities are seldom tolerated"
Kentwood, MI
efouch@steelcase.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:27:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alpinessj@aol.com
Subject: Chemicals
What chemical(s) would be best to use to clean stains and deposits out of my
brewpot that was converted from a stainless steal keg. Elbow grease is just
not working anymore.
What I am looking for specifically follows:
1) Something that I will be able get without too much trouble.
2) Something I don't need more than gloves and goggles to handle.
3) Some info on how to handle and despose of the chemical.
Private e-mail is fine. If I get a lot of reponses I will summarize in a
posting.
Thanks for your help.
Scott Jackson
The Jackson Backyard Brewery. Denver, CO
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 13:49:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: Samuel Mize <smize@prime.imagin.net>
Subject: Fast fermentation; keg pasteurization
Greetings to all, and especially to:
> HOMEBREW Digest #2529 Mon 13 October 1997
> From: "Aaron Spurlock" <spurlock@nemesis.azlink.com>
> Subject: Fast Fermentation
>
... My last couple of batches, though, seem to have fermented awful
> fast. I used 7lbs extract and one packet of Edme dry yeast (started
> according to How to Brew your First Batch).
>
> Vigorour activity occured after 12 hours, and throughout the first day. On
> the second day, it had slowed down to about 3-5 bubbles per minute and the
> krausen fell. By the third day, it was less than 1 bubble per minute! I
> plan on waiting until a week has passed, but is this okay?
Your primary ferment is taking only twice as long as mine do with 7# of
extract and Edme dry yeast. You probably have a better (cooler) temp than
mine. I do leave it a few days to finish up and fall clear. I haven't
noticed any off flavors, but I brew dark and flavorful beers, which may
hide any slight twinges.
> QUESTION 2: All of my batches thus far have had a peculiar "tangy" taste.
> It is the type of taste that makes your saliva glands "swell" after it hits
> them. Not really bitter, or puckery, but just "mediciney" I guess.
Sounds like the typical description of a phenolic off taste. Papazian
(HB Companion) and the net say that phenols can be produced by
infections, too-hot steeping/mashing of grains, or chlorine (from
sanitizer or chlorinated water).
With a fast-n-furious ferment, I doubt you're getting infections, and
you don't say you're using grains at all. That leaves chlorine.
If you sanitize with chlorine bleach, the proportions I've seen are:
- 2 TEAspoons per 5 gallons, soak 30 minutes, air dry
- 2 TABLEspoons per 5 gallons, soak 30 seconds, rinse with hot water
If you're sanitizing properly, it may be chlorinated water. Try a
batch with bottled (NOT distilled) water and see if that helps. If
so, call your water department and find out if they treat the water
with chloramines or just plain chlorine. If chlorine, boil your water
BEFORE adding any grains or extract. If chloramines, you'll need a
charcoal filter to remove them.
> HOMEBREW Digest #2529 Mon 13 October 1997
> From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay@nt.com>
> Subject: Pasteurising a keg of beer (INFECTION!)
Pasteurizing will cause flavor changes (you're cooking it, after all).
A biology teacher noted on rec.crafts.brewing that pasteurization is
NOT just heating: the second part is RAPID CHILLING, so the remaining
bacteria don't get a chance to reproduce. (Found via Deja News).
... What I was thinking of
> first was racking it into my pot, bring it up to 150F or 160F,
> hold for 5 minutes, then chill it and bottle.
If you pasteurize in an open pot you'll lose volatile flavor compounds,
and alcohol (not nearly all, at this temp/time).
If you're bottling with natural carbonation, you'll have to
re-pitch some yeast -- you just killed the existing colony.
> But then I thought
> maybe I'd rack it into a keg, put the keg in my pot, fill the
> pot with water, fire up the burner and pasteurize the thing right
> in the keg.
>
> Anyone see a problem with this 2nd option? The only potential
> problem I see is if my keg were pressurized.
I assume this is so it's a closed container (save those volatiles!). Note
that you WILL get pressure building up, since any airspace will expand,
and part of the beer will vaporize. Use a pressure-sensitive relief
valve, or use a pressure gauge and manually open a relief valve if the
pressure gets above normal kegging levels. I have no idea if this is a
realistic concern -- best to find out by monitoring it, not by losing keg
and beer and getting a 150-degree beer shower (it's better about 80-85).
Consider an ice-bath or something to chill it rapidly after heating (per
biology comment above). OTOH, I don't know how big a temperature
differential a keg can stand.
Raise the keg UP OFF THE FLOOR of the pot, so there's water under it.
Otherwise you'll be applying heat directly to the keg, and the lowest
layer of beer will get hotter than your target temperature.
Same caution about natural carbonation, but no problem if you're
force-carbonating.
Hey, maybe you'll invent a new style of beer! Oops, can't have that...
Best,
Sam Mize
- --
Samuel Mize -- smize@imagin.net -- Team Ada
(personal net account)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 14:25:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: Belgian Red
Louis writes:
>Belgian Red, New Glarus Brewing Company (Gold, Fruit Beer).
>I usually take a pass on fruit beers (except lambics), but on
>Rob Moline's suggestion I tried this one. Wow. Cherry from
>every direction, but with a balancing body and mouthfeel not
>typically found in fruit beers. Highly recommended.
Despite New Glarus being only a few hours from Chicago, only
recently (like yesterday) have I seen it sold locally. I had the
opportunity (thanks to Bob Paolino) to try the very first and
second batches of this beer. Its recipe, I'm told, has been adjusted
over the course of the last four years.
The reason I begin with all that history is to point out that
the New Glarus Belgian Red I tasted yesterday may not have been
from the same recipe as that at the GABF (which I could not attend
this year).
The Belgian Red I tasted yesterday was an outstanding beverage,
but I, personally, would not call it a great fruit beer. Its aroma
and flavour were both 100% cherry, meaning that it tasted like
a cherry wine rather than a cherry *beer*. In my opinion, fruit
and spice beers must have some beer aroma and/or flavour. As
much as I like the Belgian Red, I don't think it's a good example
of a fruit beer (but that's just my opinion, of course).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:13:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: esters
Jeff writes:
>The off flavor (esters, etc) production
>comes during the reproductive stage, so the practice of warm start is poor
>practice.
[This is one of those pointy-headed posts, so those of you who don't
like posts from guys who wear pocket protectors (like the nice AT&T one
I'm sporting right now), please page down.]
I agree with Jeff that a cold start is the preferred way of making a lager
as opposed to the shortcut (start warm, then cool), but I'm still not
convinced that ester production occurs *only* or even *primarily* during
reproduction. It's not that I have references to the contrary, it's
just that I *don't* have any supporting references other than HBD posts
(from Tracy, primarily). I've tried to get copies of some of the articles
mentioned previously, but have been unsuccessful to date.
Can we discuss this topic again in more detail?
When and how do the esters really get produced?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:16:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz@xnet.com>
Subject: Cider and E. coli
My head is about to explode from information overload, so I can't remember
if it was HBD in which someone mentioned fresh, unpasteurized apple cider
("apple juice" for our friends across the big pond (and Australia, too))
and mentioned risk of E. coli from "windfall" apples. Maybe it was on
TV? Maybe some other digest?
Anyway, I'd like to ask the biologists out there if indeed we need to
be concerned about E. coli if we *ferment* the juice in to hard cider
(just "cider" for our International readers). My suspicion is that
we need not worry about it at all. Why? Because according to Guinard's
excellent book "Lambic," E. coli is part of the early stages of Lambic
fermentation. Presumably either the acidity or alcohol of the finished
product kills the E. coli, right?
So, is it possible to look up susceptibility of E. coli to alcohol and pH?
Where?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1986 09:59:23 +1000
From: Jon Bovard <j.bovard@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Advice on malt analysis please.
I recently obtained the following data from my maltster on the malt I use.
One qualified source informs me that this malt is highly suitable for
straight infusions and that a protein rest will degrade head retention and
overall quality.
Another reliable informant tells that any malt benefits from a protein rest.
When I have done straight infusions and done them well, the resultant beer
still throws a chill haze at v-low temperatures.
The malt is commercial malt, Castlemaine-Perkins (XXXX) use it as a straight
infusion malt, although why should they care about chill haze when they run
it at a .25 micron filter?
Any comments
Moisture 4.1%
Extract (.2mm) 83.4%
Extract (1mm) 82.2
F/C Diff 1.2
Colour 4.8EBC
Sol N2 .776
Total N2 1.54
Kolbach ind. 50.5 (apparently this is extremely high??)
Friability 87.4%
Whole grain 3.2%
Matter <2.2mm 1.0
Any feedback would be gratefully accepted
Cheers
JB in Brisbane
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 20:50:50 -0400
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman@reefnet.com>
Subject: Stuck or Done Fermentation?
Hello Hbd'ers (and more specifically Jeff Renner if you read this cuz' I
don't know your private e-mail address)
Recently brewed a Pre-Prohibition Lager and am having an apparent stuck
fermentation (my first and hopefully last!) and was wondering if anyone
had experienced this same problem and could give me some ideas. The
batch specifics:
10 lbs. Klages 2 row & 2 lbs. flaked maize, mashed at 115F/35 min, then
145F/15 min, then 158/60 min, then mashout at 168F. Sparged, cooled and
racked as I normally do. Pitched a good healthy, twice propagated, one
liter starter of Yeastlab L34 St. Louis lager yeast. The OG was 1.063.
Fermented in the primary for 9 days at 46-48F till SG was 1.040, racked
to secondary and fermented for 16 days at 38F, checked SG at 1.027, then
racked to a five gallon Corny keg for lagering. Here's where the mystery
comes in. Naturally added polyclar as I always do at bottling or kegging
time. This time I added about a half gallon of boiled, distilled water
to bring the volume up to 5 gallon. I figured since the SG was still
fairly high for what I wanted as a final, I placed a blowoff/airlock
tube on the keg in hopes of having the remaining yeast ferment out and
settle and lower the SG a little. After 14 days of lagering at 35F, I
did a gravity check and it was 1.030???
I know this was long winded, but my question to the collective is,
should I re-innoculate the batch with fresh yeast and try to ferment it
out for a third time? The beer tastes extra sweet for what I expected
and is certainly alot more full bodied too. I assume that the polyclar
has already settled out what yeast remained and it will no longer do
it's job. I have a few ounces of slurry that I pulled from the primary
that I could revive and re-pitch. I spent alot of time and effort on
this batch and hate to not get the best possible brew I can (of course!)
Any help or comments will be appreciated.
Thanks!
Marc
- --
Capt. Marc D. Battreall
batman@reefnet.com
\\\ ///
(o o)
=====oOO==(_)==OOo=====
Beer is proof that there is a God
Ben Franklin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:29:03 -0400
From: "Jeff" <spamjwalls@redrose.net>
Subject: Brew Schools
I tried this on RCB and got silence. Besides the obvious, Seibels, and the
ABG and UC Davis, are there other Professional Brewing Schools around
(certificate courses)? Any on (or near) the east coast? I'm sick of
computers and need to find a new line of work, and am considering making my
hobby a profession. (Yes I read the JG and Kinney stories)
Private email is appreciated. Thx.
Jeff
jwallsnospam@redrose.net remove NOSPAM for my real email add.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:33:32 -0700
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb@stanford.edu>
Subject: RIMS questions
Thanks mainly to Dion Hollenbeck I've decided to "upgrade" my
3 tier system to RIMS. I have some questions. Email to me
is fine, I'll summarize, or mail to the digest.
1) Is there such a thing as a too strong pump (magnetically
coupled, centrifugal)? There has been a little discussion on
this, but people seem happy to throttle them back with a downstream
ball valve. My existing pump will do (actual, not rated) at least 8
gallons/min with similar head and friction when wide open (not
sucking through a grain bed).
2) I know many people use 220V heaters at 110V. Since I already
have 220V going to my brewery for my pump, I was thinking that
I could wire a 3-way switch to the unswitched side of the heater
and select between neutral and "negative" 110V to allow 220V
for faster boosts. Obviously this would be useful for heating
up water prior to dough-in, but has anyone ever done this with
wort? Is it sure to scorch or cause denaturation (I'm thinking
in particular of the 40-->60C boost)? I calculate that 4500W
(the 220V power output of the heater I'm looking at) with a
flow rate of 3 gal/min will add 17 degrees C (assuming no
losses along the way). Can someone check my math and then advise
whether this is too small of a safety factor? Is 3 gal/min
appropriate? Or should I shut up and do the experiment?
3) As a 1 pump solution that minimizes reconstruction of what I
have, and tries to keep overall height down, I propose the
following layout: Bottom level=mash/lauter tun, just high enough
to feed downhill to the pump. Next level=gravity feed HLT and
kettle. Kettle can gravity feed to fermenters (I use an immersion
chiller) or to mash tun to add boiling water for big boosts (see
question 2) or for turbid mashes. Any obvious problems with
this?
4) Any tricks on orientation of the heater chamber? One I thought
of was that the element might be better on top with a vertical
chamber orientation so that any particulates that settle out in the
chamber (decreased velocity in the larger diameter tube?)
won't settle on the element. Likewise, any pump tricks?
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:23:38 -0800
From: "Aaron Spurlock" <spurlock@nemesis.azlink.com>
Subject: Fast Fermentation Followup
Well, lost of people suggested that I may have a problem with fermentation
temperatures. Living in Phoenix, Arizona, I don't find this too hard to
believe. My house stays at 75 degrees (any lower and I'd be broke), which
most say is too high for my ale to ferment properly, possibly contributing
to the "tangy, salivary gland swelling" flavor I described. People gave
some wonderful suggestions, and if I have enough successes, I will
eventually get a fridge or other "cooler" for my beer.
But right now, just starting out, I can't justify the expense. The fermenter
in a tub of water with a towel and fan for evaporation idea sounds good, but
I don't really want a fan running 24-hours a day.
Another idea some suggested was to put my carboy in a large plastic
garbage can and fill it with water. That way, I can control the
temperature of the surrounding water with ice if need be, maintaining a
constant 65 degrees. This sounds really appealing, because it is
economical, and a large volume of water shouldn't change temperature too
quickly.
Does anyone have any experience with this method or any thoughts on its
viability? Thanks for keeping me brewing, and hopefully I'll meet with
success after success soon!
Aaron Spurlock aaronspurlock@iname.com
All opinions expressed are expressly my opinions...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 10:07:52 UT
From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON@classic.msn.com>
Subject: Those stubborn kettle stains
HBDers -
In preparation for the fall brewing season, I typically run my equipment
through a rigorous cleaning. This year, I was unable to remove "wort stains"
(look like coffee stains on an overused cup) from my legally purchased half
barrel AB kettle-keg. I tried using white vinegar and a kitchen scrubbie. I
am now considering using fine grit sandpaper to remove the stains. Any
suggestions? Will the scratching from the sandpaper only make this problem
worse next year? IMKR? :-)
Thanks,
Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 10:12:22 UT
From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON@classic.msn.com>
Subject: Instant-on water heaters
HBDers -
I was crusing through Home Depo yesterday and saw what could be a solution to
the single largest headache I have when I brew -- simply heating up enough hot
water. The so called "instant on" water taps claim to provide 190 degree
water (albeit at a slow pace). Methinks that this would be simply great for
mash and sparge liquors (using tap-temp water to cool naturally). Has anyone
had any experience with this equipment? Will it alter the water chemistry (I
can't imagine it would)? Perhaps there is a better alternative for such an
application -- perhaps the heaters used for RIMS?
Thanks,
Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:05:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene@dreamscape.com>
Subject: Wedding Beer experiment
HBDers and fellow revelers
A few months ago I posted some questions I had about brewing beer
for a wedding. Well, the wedding was Sunday and I thought a report was in
order.
First, the beers. I brewed 4, oatmeal stout, pilsener, strawberry
wheat and a VERY potent version of a California Common Beer (Steam). The
all went very well, but the Steam beer.......which I called Steam
Roller.....was the biggest hit.
I did not keg the beers, but bottled them and that worked out ok.
I had to teach the bartenders how to pour a homebrew without getting
sediment. If you're planning on doing this, I would suggest you be
careful. Talking before the reception with the head bartender, he made it
sound like he knew all about homebrew. Then I saw him pouring them in a
fashion I wouldn't use even on a megabrew.
My other suggestion, make sure the beer glasses are big enough for
a whole beer if you're using bottles. These must have been been 9 or 10
oz glasses and the bartenders ended up pouring the tail end of one bottle
and the beginning of another.....making for quite a lot of sediment in a
glass.
My last comment comes about using bulk extract. I had good
results from buying a 15kg vat of english light malt extract. I think it
was Munton and Fison's. I've found that if you're unable to weigh your
malt to get the right amount for a recipe, using 2/3rds of a cup of
extract to equal 1 pound works well......at least for light malt extract.
Thanks to all who answered my questions about these brews. I hope
this post will help someone else who's thinking of brewing for a similar
event.
Eugene Sonn
eugene@nova.dreamscape.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:04:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: OCaball299@aol.com
Subject: Kolsh Bier
To the All knowing, scientific artists in the collective.
I've been in Germany for several weeks now on business and finally had the
opportunity to briefly visit the city of Koln where I had the pleasure of
tasting their local brew. Kolsh beer. To my amasement, it was one of the
best beers I've ever tasted. It was smooth, clear, and excellent with the
local grub.
My question is, does anyone out there have a clue as to how to
replicate/duplicate/copy this style of beer. Now that I know how it tastes,
I WANT MORE!!!
Any assistance or guidance would be very much appreciated. TIA.
Omar Caballero - OCABALL299@aol.com
"Today is only yesterday's tomorror" - Uriah Heep
So have another homebrew.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:57:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: "SCOTT DUBENDRIS....PHOTO TECH....375/X6039" <SDUBENDR@spf.nsc.com>
Subject: IS ANY ? A BAD ONE?
HELLO,
BEING EXTREMELY NEW TO HOMEBREWING I HAVE A QUESTION. I HAVE SO FAR MADE
4 BATCHES OF INCREDIBLY DELICIOUS BEVERAGE. I HAVE A QUESTION..EVERYTIME I DRINK
SOME OF MY BEER I HAVE EXTREME FLATUATION..IS THIS NORMAL? IS MY BEER NOT DONE
FERMENTING OR SOMETHING?? ANY COMMENTS WOULD BE APPRECIATED..
SCOTTY D.
WESTBROOK, ME..
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:02:14 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay@nt.com>
Subject: Phil's vs EZ-Masher vs manifold
Al Korzonas writes :
"Alan found he had a bigger difference between an easymasher and
slotted copper manifold than I did in my experiment.
I'd like to suggest that the difference may be in the rate of
taking the runnings. "
Alan responds with :
No, I always run off for about 70 minutes. As I recall, all factors
were equal at that
time. The only other thing I can think of off-hand is that I made the
switch from
EC-Masher to my manifold at roughly the same time as I started getting
used to
mashing in general. Perhaps I switched at exactly the same time that I
would have
made the leap in extraction, anyway.
As I mentioned, I've been meaning to run some experiments of my own to
test
the systems. Maybe some day soon I'll get the time.
cheers,
-Alan
- --
Alan McKay
Nortel Enterprise Networks
Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations
PC Support Prime
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:25:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Wesley McDaniel <wmcdanie@marlin.utmb.edu>
Subject: Iodine
Hello All,
Is it possible for iodophore to go bad? Can high temperature be
harmful to the stuff? I have been combating a sanitization problem. My
last 3 batches have gone bad when I bottle them. After the first batch,
I thought I had only been a little lax at bottling time. So on the
second batch I used iodophore to sanitize everything. I make some
solution (12.5 pp) min the bottling bucket and filled enough bottles with
the solution and let them sit for 10 minutes. Afterwords, I let them dry
on a bottle tree. Weeks later I had the same ring around the collar and
over-ripe banana smell (the porter tasted like crap as well). So when I
bottled the pale ale, I used bleach to sanitize the bottles and iodophore
to clean the bottling bucket. I am 99.9999999999% sure the bottles were
good. So that leaves the bottling bucket (done with iopdophore). Now
the pale ale has the ring of scum in the bottle. Stop me before I ruin
another batch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Wesley McDaniel wesley.mcdaniel@utmb.edu
University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2533, 10/17/97
*************************************
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