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HOMEBREW Digest #2514
HOMEBREW Digest #2514 Thu 25 September 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Glucose, Sucrose, Table Sugar, and Corn Sugar? (brian_dixon)
saccrification and iodine test ("Bret Morrow")
California Common Beer ("Michel J. Brown")
Brown Ale, and Entire Butt =?iso-8859-1?Q?=ABagain=BB?= ("Michel J. Brown")
Lactose (korz)
Anouncing: the Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing ("Louis K. Bonham")
Dry hopping in 2ndary, fermentation started again, IMBR? (Mike Maag)
--------------Dried Edme Yeast--------------- (Dan)
Re: gushing (Sheena McGrath)
Water amounts for mash and sparge (Denis Barsalo)
Re: AHA "Stuff" (Scott Abene)
Hot water / TDS ("Ian Wilson")
Re: Preparing Yeast culture media ??? ("Thilo")
Survival of the Fittest (fwd) ("Arnold J. Neitzke")
A third batch goes down (Luc Dore)
RE: Color as calculated vs. real in glass (MED)" <Frederick.Wills@amermsx.med.ge.com>
Re: LABC (Mike Kohn)
Aerating wort the painless way... (Mark T A Nesdoly)
Little Apple (MaltyDog)
AHA (George J Fix)
gelatinization (George J Fix)
Re: Koelsch/Boennsch (dblewis)
Re: The HBD @ The GABF ("Brian M. Rezac")
Wyeast 1968 (John Wilkinson)
Online source of Gott/Rubbermaid 5-gallon and 10-gallon round coolers (brian_dixon)
homebrew club liability (John Landreman)
Fermentation freezer in winter ("Ben Oconnor")
Handling Agar (Stephen Neate)
Pacific Brewers Cup Results (The Holders)
Conversions (John T Ross)
re: Cider (Dick Dunn)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 97 13:55:22 -0700
From: brian_dixon@om.cv.hp.com
Subject: Glucose, Sucrose, Table Sugar, and Corn Sugar?
Can't find my notes on this and the answers seem to elude me in my
various texts, and I can't remember (must be getting old), so here's
some questions:
Glucose is one of the monosaccharides. Sucrose is a glucose linked with
a fructose (I believe...that memory thing again), so ...
1) What is table sugar? Glucose or Sucrose?
2) What is corn sugar? Glucose or Sucrose?
3) One of the two represents the "sugar standard" and, I believe, gives
45 pts/lb/gal. Is this correct?
4) Which one (table sugar or corn sugar) is the sugar standard?
5) How many pts/lb/gal is provided by table sugar and also by corn
sugar?
Provided with which is which in terms of glucose and sucrose, this
should give me pretty complete information on these guys.
6) Another related question would have to do with dry malt extract. It
is a blend of maltose, maltotriose, and dextrins...anybody know if plain
unadulterated maltose is available? What would the pts/lb/gal? Same as
regular DME I guess ...
THANKS in advance!
Signed,
Cornfused (Brian)
.......................................................................
Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT
Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:52:46 PDT
From: "Bret Morrow" <johnson_et_ale@hotmail.com>
Subject: saccrification and iodine test
hey there,
In light of the recent posting concerning the use of iodine testing for
completion of starch conversion I wanted to throw my experiences in the
forum as well as post a question or three. I have had negative (not
blue) iodine tests on the clear liquid of simple infusion mashes
(148-155 oF) in 20 to 35 min over a number of years. I have, however,
followed the advice of the late, great Dave Line and mashed for about
90-120 min. My yields are respectable, about 30-32 points per pound.
My questions are 1) Why the heck can't I stop at 30-40 min after a
negative iodine test? 2) Is most the usable starch in the liquid? 3)
Are there any other desirable changes other than saccrification that
occur during a simple infusion mash?
If there are no other important reactions in a simple infusion mash, I
think the best "test" of the iodine test is to do 2 mashes with
identical parameters changing only the time (e.g. 30 and 90 min) and
compare the yields. Anyone tried this?
Bret Morrow/John Elsworth/Johnson's Brewing
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:19:13 -0800
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade@sspiritone.com>
Subject: California Common Beer
I just got two California Common (aka Steam) beers online. One, an all ma=
lt
grain beer, the other, an adjunct beer. Interestingly enough, I used the =
exact
same hop bill (1 oz of N Brewer @ 60 min, 1 oz of Cascades at 20 and EOB.=
IBU's calculated out to be =B11 IBU of one another (43.7, and 44.1
resspectively). What is really odd, is that the all malt grain CC tastes
hoppier than does the adjunct beer, even though it's marginally lower in
calculated bitterness from the adjunct CC! Both taste great, but I tend t=
o
like the adjunct beer better, as it has a smoother palate and finer nose.=
While the all malt grain beer is a little (!) rougher in both areas. Both=
beers were primed with 1 quart of 1.060 spiese, and mashed at the same te=
mps
for the same amount of time. They even have similar color (11.9 srm vs. 1=
2.2
srm), as I only had 8# of 2 row, 1# C40L, and 1# toasted in the first bee=
r,
and 6# of 6 row, 2# of maize, 1# C40L, and 1# toasted in the second. Perh=
aps
the maize made the hops mellower? Any thoughts or ideas? TIA! =
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:02:01 -0800
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade@sspiritone.com>
Subject: Brown Ale, and Entire Butt =?iso-8859-1?Q?=ABagain=BB?=
Well, I guess my earlier post didn't make it to the HBD, so at the risk o=
f
being repetitious, here's another question, and some updates. First off,
thanks to all who responded about =ABEntire Butt=BB origins (now if I can=
only get
that fellow to resend the GIF to me as Windows 97 ate it on a move to :-(=
;
second, I brewed an English style Brown Ale, which came out much lighter =
than
my calculations would indicate. I predicted the color to be 16.9 SRM, yet=
it
looks more like around 8~10 SRM. What it reminds me of, is the "old style=
"
Bass Ale of the early '70s in both color and flavor. This was with a grai=
n
bill of 8# 2 row, 1/4# each of C120L and CaraMunich, and 3/4# each of Aro=
matic
and Victory. I used the #1968 Wyeast London ESB yeast, and added 4 tsp Gy=
psum,
1/2 tsp Epsom, and 1/4 tsp table salt. Hops were 1/2 oz of N Brewer @ 60 =
min,
1/2 oz of EKG @ 20 min, and 1/2 oz of EKG at EOB. Looks and tastes ok, bu=
t not
what I would've expected from the grain bill! Any ideas, other than to pe=
rhaps
add 2 oz or so of chocolate malt? TIA=
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:29:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: Lactose
Bob asks when is the right time to add lactose: boil or at bottling?
Both are acceptable, but it's safer to add it at the end of the boil.
You want to sanitize it, of course (and presumably you will be boiling
it along with your priming sugar if you add it at bottling time), but
consider this: lactose is fermentable by some bacteria and wild yeasts.
If you add it in the boil and you get an infection, your beer simply
won't be as sweet as you wanted. If you add it at bottling time and
you had a small infection in the fermenter, you'll have gushers.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:22:26 -0500
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham@phoenix.net>
Subject: Anouncing: the Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing
On behalf of Brewing Techniques Magazine, the Home Beer and
Wine Trade Association, the Home Brew Digest, and the Foam
Rangers Homebrew Club of Houston, I am pleased to announce
a new national homebrew competition. As the planning for this
competition is in the embryonic stage, I am also soliciting all
comments and suggestions.
The first Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing ("MCAB")
will be held in late 1998 or early 1999 in Houston, Texas, and
will be hosted by the Foam Rangers. 8-10 major regional
homebrew competitions (selected on the basis of size, prestige,
and geographic distribution) will be selected shortly as MCAB
Qualifying Events. Winners at each Qualifying Event in 15-20
of the most competitive BJCP subcategories will be invited to
enter the MCAB in that style. Entrants will be free to either
enter their qualifying beer or brew a different batch for the
MCAB competition.
The MCAB will thus be a small "champions' championship,"
where the very best amateur brewers will compete head-to-
head in the most competitive styles under ideal conditions.
The small size of the competition will allow us to have larger
panels of qualified judges evaluating smaller flights --
hopefully minimizing pallette fatigue and some of the other
problems that can affect large competitions. We also hope
that the MCAB will provide an opportunity for the amateur
brewing community to congregate for a free or low cost,
yet high quality technical conference that will be produced
by amateur brewers, for amateur brewers.
We will shortly be forming a Steering Committee that will
select the Qualifying Events, the BJCP styles that will be
featured, the specific competition rules, and other matters.
(In future years, the Steering Committee would also be in
charge of selecting a host club for the MCAB.) For those
of you going to the GABF, we will be having an organizational
meeting shortly before the Real Beer/Brewing Techniques
Stogies and Stout Smokeout (10PM on Thursday, October 2, 1997,
at the Rock Bottom Brewery in Denver). Please e-mail me for
details and an agenda if you would like to attend.
In the meantime, if you have any comments or suggestions for
the MCAB -- especially regarding which competitions you feel
should be Qualifying Events -- or if you would like to be
involved in this great endeavor, please let me know.
Louis K. Bonham
lkbonham@phoenix.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 06:17:24 -0400
From: Mike Maag <maagm@rica.net>
Subject: Dry hopping in 2ndary, fermentation started again, IMBR?
I thought my ale had pretty much fermented out. I was getting a bubble in
the airlock every 2 min 30 sec. I dont know the og or whatever. I used
wyeast 1056 at 66 degrees. I racked to a secondary carboy and added 1/2 oz
of pelletized fuggles. About 4 days later the bubbles started again.
Still 66 degrees. One bubble every 40 seconds. IMBR???
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:59:47 -0400
From: Dan <dsabin@visi.net>
Subject: --------------Dried Edme Yeast---------------
Over the summer I brewed about 8 batches of beer. On 5 of them, I
used Edme dried Yeast. On the other 3 I used Wyeast 1056. All 5
batches using dried yeast got the ring around the bottle neck. The 3
using liquid yeast came out fine. The "ring around the neck" beers all
seemed to have a problem or two. Like gushing, no head, off flavor, or
something along those lines.
Now the questions
1) Has there been a problem with Edme dried yeast?
2) Is this just weird coincidence?
3) Prior to the summer, I used Edme with no problem at all.
What gives? Just too much bacteria and wild yeast in the summer time?
Of course, sanitation was consistently the same throughout the
procedures.
Now that the brewing season is here, I'm seriously considering going to
liquid yeast, not just for the prior reasons, but it makes a MUCH better
beer than dried yeast could ever think about.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 18:23:14 -0700
From: Sheena McGrath <sheena@gte.net>
Subject: Re: gushing
I have a problem with an English strong ale that I made. I primed it
with .75 cup of corn sugar and now two of my bottles have exploded. It
tastes fine so I don't think it's infected. I'm assuming it's the sugar
although most books tell you to prime with that amount. Any comments?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:01:27 -0500
From: Denis Barsalo <denisb@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Water amounts for mash and sparge
Brew people,
I've developed a very easy formula that seems to work for me
everytime. I work in metric, and I've found this method to be "Modified
Papazian", in terms of suggested water volumes for strike, step-up and
sparge water.
Now mind you, my first temp rest has usually been 50C (which
happens to be...egad! 122F!!! I often use, flakes, or some other stuff that
seems to need this temp rest. I usually rest for 20 mins at 50C, then step
to 60C for 20 mins. then to 70C till conversion. Now for the water amounts.
Most of my recipes (for 5 gal) use 4.5k to 5k of grain and/or flakes.
I use twice the amount (in liters) of grain (in kilos) for strike water.
i.e. 5k grain = 10 liters of water at 55C. Once you add the room temp.
grain, it will stabilise at 50C.
Then I use the equal amount of liters of water for kilos of grain
for step water. i.e. 5k grain = 5 liters of 212F water to bring the mash to
60C. (This works everytime.)
Then my sparge water is *four* times the amount of kilos of grain.
i.e. 5 kilos = 20 liters of sparge water at 77C. I sparge till I run out of
water, and I only need to top up the kettle with water, if I use less then
4.5k of grain.
I've been able to recreate mashes using this formula everytime. I
could easely mash without a thermometer.. this is how predictable this is
for me.
Now, what should I do about the 122F rest? Am I right about
assuming if I use barley or wheat flakes, malted wheat, munich malt, brown
malt, vienna malt, etc.(anything other than well modified 2-row or 6-row)
in moderate amounts that I *should* use the 122F rest? If I want my first
rest to be 60C, then what temp should my strike water be if I want to keep
my 1K to 1L ratio. Will this ratio be OK if I only do a 60C and a 70C rest.
(I usually add heat to get to 70C.)
Denis
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:37:07 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com>
Subject: Re: AHA "Stuff"
Just A little note to say that I, probably the Biggest Anti-AHA person on
the face of the earth was impressed with Brian Rezac's post about the AHA.
He seems to be the only AHA person to admit that there is a problem and that
they need to move forward and address it.
Good Luck Brian you are going to need it!
Perhaps if we all push someone that is interested in change we can receive
change.
-Scott
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# #
# #
# "The More I know About Beer, The More I Don't Need The AHA" #
################################################################
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 21:40:40 -0700
From: "Ian Wilson" <ianw@sosinet.net>
Subject: Hot water / TDS
Actually, you can do a simple experiment in your own kitchen (or patio /
porch / deck).
Gee, Mr. Wizard, tell us how!
Take samples of your cold water after its been sitting all night, after its
been running for five or ten minutes. Take samples of your hot water as
soon as it gets hot and after its been running for a bit.
Use your hydrometer to measure the density of each sample after allowing
the samples to come to room temperature. The densest sample will have the
most Total Desolved Solids (TDS). The least dense sample will have the
lowest TDS.
Simple, but effective kitchen chemistry in action. The data is
representative of your water system, too!
It is not necessary to consult either the BATF or the CDC to obtain
permission for performing these tests. You should, however, check with your
State authorities as to licensing for Water Analysis Chemist licensure
requirements.
Ian Wilson
ianw@sosinet.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:03:56 CAT
From: "Thilo" <thilo@obp.ovi.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Preparing Yeast culture media ???
>...seems when I prepare the agar and pour it into the tubes or petri
>dishes I get a LOT of condensation.....
>What do others do to eliminate this problem.
I suggest you let them cool down at a higher temperature, you could
even let them stand in the sun while they cool down when it's really
cold. For petri dishes you can let them cool down then turn them
up-side-down (i.e. on the lid) This prevents condensation from
dripping onto the agar.
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Thilo Muller
Brewers Barrel - 'http://www.geocities.com/napavalley/6401'
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Thilo Mueller (Thilo@obp.ovi.ac.za)
The Stamp-Page: http://www.ovi.ac.za/homepages/thilo
HomeBrew Page: http://www.geocities.com/napavalley/6401
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:40:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Arnold J. Neitzke" <neitzkea@frc.com>
Subject: Survival of the Fittest (fwd)
This came to me at work from someone else, from someone else, from
someone else...
A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo, and when
the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are
killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole,
because the general speed and health of the whole keeps improving by the
regular culling of the weakest members.
In much the same way, the human brain can operate only as fast as the
slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, we all know, kills off
brain cells, but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells
first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker
cells, constantly making the brain a faster and more efficient machine.
The results of this in-depth epidemiological study verifies and validates
the causal link between all-weekend parties and engineering performance.
It also explains why, after a few short years of leaving university and
getting married, most engineers cannot keep up with the performance of the
new graduates. Only those few that stick to the strict regimen of
voracious alcoholic consumption can maintain the intellectual levels that
they achieved during their university years.
So, this is a call to arms. As our country is losing its technological
edge we should not shudder in our homes. Get back into the bars! Quaff
that pint! Your company and country need you to be at your peak, and you
shouldn't deny yourself the career that you could have. Be all that you
can be.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:20:12 -0400
From: Luc Dore <ldore@positronfiber.com>
Subject: A third batch goes down
Hello to all,
Well, for the third time in about 4 years, the dry yeast I
purchased was DOA. After two entire days, there's no activity to be
witnessed, and my air lock is flat down. Since this batch was my "brew
what's left" beer, it's not an extremely big loss. I'm starting to
quite a bit annoyed by this phenomenon.
Now, enough tear shedding. Can any of my colleagues out there
tell me how tough/easy is it to start using liquid yeast instead of
dried ? How does it keep between batches ? Are there any noticeable
differences in the fermentation ?
Thanks in advance for you help/assistance.
- --
Luc Dore -- Positron Fiber Systems
ldore@positronfiber.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 08:43:28 -0500
From: "Wills, Frederick J (MED)" <Frederick.Wills@amermsx.med.ge.com>
Subject: RE: Color as calculated vs. real in glass
In HBD #2512, Dr. Michel J. Brown, wrote:
<<I just got my English Brown Ale ready for consumption, and noticed
that it seems a bit lighter than you would have expected, given the
grain bill. The SRM (calculated) was supposed to be 16.9, a coppery
amber color. Yet it appears to be about the color of a light English
mild, around 10-12 SRM IMHO. >>
You have touched on one of my pet Homebrewing peeves. I am referring to
the general confusion that exists between the lovibond and SRM color
scales. Much has been said and experiments have been done, and yet this
confusion still exists and is propagated. Nothing against you, it's
just the way things are...
You said that you calculated an SRM of 16.9. This was probably a simple
calculation based on the grain color multiplied by grain quantity and
divided by the batch size. There are some minor corrections that would
need to be applied for absolute accuracy (such as the color extraction
efficiency, wort darkening via maillard reaction, etc.) but this should
suffice as a reasonable approximation of the end color. The problem
lies in the "target" specifications as they are often cited in SRM when
they really mean lovibond.
As you may be aware, the lovibond and SRM scales diverge at a log rate
on any colors above 10 SRM. Your estimated color of 16.9 SRM would
equate to 13.5 degrees L. This would be very close to your resulting
color no doubt. So you see, an ale at 16.9 SRM should indeed be the
color of a "light English ale" 10-12 *degrees lovibond*.
I have made up a chart for my own personal use based on the article in
an ancient HBD by Dr. George Fix which charts out the non-linearity of
the Lovibond scale based on the dilution of Michelob Dark beer, and
applied this to the linear scale of SRM as would be measured by a
scientifically accurate spectrophotometer. Unfortunately I have no way
of making that readily available to you here. It is currently posted in
the forum library of the Compuserve Beer forum, if you have access to
that.
Regards,
Fred Wills
{Frederick.Wills@med.ge.com}
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:26:02 -0500
From: Mike Kohn <vsca@itis.com>
Subject: Re: LABC
- --
Hello all,
In response to posts here by A.S. Tomb, and others in the RCB NG,
it is apparent that there are two sides to every story.
However, LABC should be held accountable for their actions, and
no mercy or pity should be awarded to them regarding the clogging
of email boxes, nasty emails, boycotts, etc.
They chose to use the Internet as a weapon, by commiting the
known serious faux pas of publishing a brewmaster's recipe. In
doing so, they opened Pandora's box. If they would have kept
their little internal disputes to themselves as professional
management should do, they wouldn't be in this fix. To make
matters worse, the unbecoming and unprofessional slam of
homebrewers by the owner of this establishment was in extremely
poor taste, and warrants nothing less than to be treated as they
have been and will likely continue to be treated.
Exonerating this individual from these acts would be like letting
Pete Rose back into the Hall of Fame. You don't bet on games,
and you don't sell out a brewer's recipe.
LABC knowingly and voluntarily took their problem to the
internet. They have no one to blame but themselves.
Mike Kohn
GBC
http://userpages.itis.com/vsca
For auto e-mail strippers:
Chmn. Reed Hunt: rhundt@fcc.gov
Comm. James Quello: jQuello@fcc.gov
Comm. Susan Ness: sness@fcc.gov
Comm. Rachelle Chong: rchong@fcc.gov
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mail.usask.ca
From: Mark T A Nesdoly <mtn290@mail.usask.ca>
Subject: Aerating wort the painless way...
Mike Allred relates a half-full carboy shaking technique for oxygenating
wort in HBD #2512.
I came up with a syphon-tube arrangement to filter the trub and hops from my
kettle a couple of months ago. Allow me to first describe the tube; you'll
see where the oxygenation comes in at the end.
I had just purchased a new 32 qt aluminum pot for a kettle, and I had also
fashioned my own immersion wort chiller. Then I realized I needed something
to separate the hot & cold break and the hops from my wort. (I guess I
should mention that I do 5 gal all-grain batches using the 32 qt pot on an
electric stove, and I primary in a 23 l glass carboy.)
I had about a 4' length of 3/8" copper pipe that I bent into the shape of a
question mark --> ? A semicircular round part with a straight part. Now
imagine laying the whole thing flat on a table, and carefully bending the
straight part up so that it is perpendicular to the table. That,
more-or-less, is what my syphon tube looks like. I bent the round part just
right so that it tightly fits around the inside of my 32 qt pot. It sits on
the bottom of the pot, right at the interface between the pot's bottom and
the pot's side. The straight part runs up and over the lip of the pot; I
bent the end downward so that it hooks over the lip of the pot. I crimped
the rounded end of the pipe shut (the end that sits in the bottom of the
pot). I then cut slits in the *bottom* of the rounded end of the pipe about
every 1/4" to 1/2" or so.
To use it, I put it in the pot at the same time as the immersion
chiller--about 15 minutes before the end of the boil--to sterilize it. When
the wort is sufficiently chilled, I let it sit for about 5 - 10 minutes to
give everything a chance to settle. I push my racking hose over the end of
the tube, and start a syphon into the carboy.
Here's the aeration part: I simply let the wort splash from the top of the
carboy (where the end of the racking hose is located) into the bottom as it
syphons. That's it. I'm pretty sure that my aeration technique is
sufficient, because the wort starts to out-gas about 3 - 4 hours aftering
pitching; high krausen usually follows within about 9 hours at the latest.
This is with a wyeast pack that's been stepped up once in a starter.
As far as how well the tube works as a strainer: I have yet to get so much
as a flake of trub or a particle of hops in the carboy. I should also note
that I only use whole hops--no pellets. And I only leave behind about one
liter (about a quart) of wort in the pot along with the hops and trub.
- -- Mark
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:28:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: MaltyDog@aol.com
Subject: Little Apple
There's a much better way to handle this disaster then
boycotting the brewery. If I lived in the neighborhood of the
Little Apple Brewery, I would just run off flyers with the text of
Mr. Loeb's tirade, and leave them around in the bar and the nearby
area, so perhaps his customers could see what he thinks of his public.
Bill Coleman
MaltyDog@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 11:44:50 -0500
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: AHA
I want to thank Brian Rezac for his helpful posts. It seems
clear to me that the new team at the AHA (Caroline Duncker,
Jim Parker, and Brian) are a good deal more responsive with
much clearer sincerity of purpose than has been the case in
the past. I for one look forward to working with them on
projects of mutual interest. Laurie and I have just finished
a book with Brewer's Publications. Our relationship with
these folks (Theresa Duggan and Kim Adams) was excellent.
They recruited for us a world class editor in Scott Bickham
(someone whose brewing accomplishments is well known to
all on HBD). In addition they got David Ryder of Miller,
Bill Siebel, and Graham Stewart of Heriot-Watt to write
commentaries. We could not of asked for more, and if we ever
do another one BP is the place we will turn first.
Cheers,
George Fix
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 98 12:40:35 -0500
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: gelatinization
The assertion that malted barley does not gelatinize until
146-148F (63-65C) runs counter to my own brewing experiences.
It seems reasonable that it will not reach completion until
that range is reached, however it has been my experience
that a considerable amount of gelatinization will occur before
then.
To cite a specific (but representative) case we used some well
modified (what else is there these days!) Pilsner malt in the
following mash:
1. Liquefaction/beta-glucan rest at 38-42C - 30 mins. -
during this period there was a sharp increase in mash
SG as measured by a refractometer.
2. 10 min. transition to 60-62C.
3. At the end of 15 mins. a sample was removed for
for testing, and the temperature was then raised
70-72C over a 10 min interval.
4. The mash was held at 70-72C for 15 mins. and a second
sample was removed for testing.
5. A third sample was taken from the chilled wort after
a normal kettle boil.
The analysis used forced fermentations to estimate the %
fermentability. The first showed a real ferm. of 60%, which
corresponds to an apparent % of 73%. The last two samples
were virtually identical, having a real% of 65% and an
apparent % fermentability of 79%. Numbers like this mean
that the bulk of the gelatinization took place on or
before 60C, and the bulk of the liquefaction (which
determines the overall yield as compared to fermentability)
took place in the low temperture regime.
One conclusion from this is that with modern well modified malt
things happen much quicker and with greater ease than was the
case previously. I see this as being as much as a disadvantage
as it is an advantage for the small scale unautomated brewer.
On another related subject it is well known that glyco-proteins
(dextrin-mmw protein polmers) are the primary constituents
supporting a beer's form stand, while CO2 and larger proteins
are responsible for the formation of foam. In a recent
study by Scott, et al (ASBC Journal, 55- 1997) it was
shown that a rest at 70-72C strongly encourages the
formation of glyco-proteins. A corollary, and something I
have always believed without proof, is that a rest at 70-722C
will improve a beer's foam stand! Moreover, I have found that the
effect is not trivial.
Cheers.
George Fix
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:41:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: dblewis@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Koelsch/Boennsch
Brian Rezac writes:
"as the AHA guidelines are concerned". He said that what he meant by using
the word, "completely", is that the Koelsch-style beer brewed by Kurfursten
in Bonn is not far out of the AHA specs, but rather, it is a little bit out
in three different areas; Original Gravity, IBU's and Color."
I think we're missing a point here. Koelsch is an appellation. Only beers
brewed in Koeln (Cologne) can be called Koelsch. Beers brewed in Bonn
are colloquially called Boennsch (and are served in cool glasses that
fit your hand, but that's another story). To say that Dr. Fix's emulation
of a beer brewed in Bonn is not a Koelsch-style is completely correct.
Now if we want to split hairs, maybe we should have another category, but
I don't think that is necessary.
It is difficult to characterize what a true Koelsch is. The beers themselves
are so varied in flavor that it is difficult to describe them as one.
Malzmuehle beers are malty (hence the name, Maltmill), PJ Fruh beer is
fruity, Paeffgen is hoppy and bitter, not to mention Sion, Dom, Gaffel, and
more. About the only things they have in common are they are light gold in
color, similar in gravity, and they are made in Koeln.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:38:18 -0600
From: "Brian M. Rezac" <brian@aob.org>
Subject: Re: The HBD @ The GABF
Fellow HBDers,
Since Mark Tumarkin suggested an HBD gathering at the GABF, Jim Parker and
I have been putting our heads together. (Once you see what we look like,
you'll see that it's not a pretty picture!) Anyway, being the locals, we
felt that geography mandates that we put our "money where our mouths are"
and come up with something to assist members of the brewing community.
This is what we came up with:
There can be an HBDers/Internet users gathering at Falling Rock every night
after the GABF (Thur, Fri & Sat, Oct 2-4) . We were thinking about 10 or
10:30 as a
starting time each night. This will give everyone enough time to walk the
10 blocks to Falling Rock. (Jim Parker refers to this as "Within stumbling
distance".) Chris Black, the owner (King) of Falling Rock, has agreed and
is thrilled to host (he's a homebrewer himself) and he's donating the use
of the Cigar Room at the pub for our use.
Falling Rock (Once you drive through the Rocky Mountains, you'll see the
humor.) has 69 world class beers ON TAP! The Cigar Room is located
downstairs near the dart boards and pool tables. The staircase is located
to the left as you enter Falling Rock, but we're working on getting a sign
posted. (After each GABF session, we'll need all the direction we can
get).
We are also posting this to rec.crafts.brewing and Compuserve and invite
any of you to post to other homebrewing newsgroups or listserves you
belong to. This should be a great way to meet face-to-face with people
we've only only met electronically.
I would like to thank Mark Tumarkin for his terrific idea and Chris Black
for the use of the Falling Rock Cigar Room.
See you all there!
- Brian
Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association (303) 447-0816 x 121 (voice)
736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax)
PO Box 1679 brian@aob.org (e-mail)
Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info@aob.org (aob info)
U.S.A. http://beertown.org (web)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 16:02:12 CDT
From: jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Wyeast 1968
I thought I would add my 2 cents worth to the recent discussion of Wyeast 1968.
I have used this yeast more than any other, probably as much or more than
all the rest I have used combined. I used to sometimes get high finishing
gravities but since I started using large starters and aerating well (I
oxygenate now) I have had no problem, even with no rousing. I brew on the
weekends out of town so I am not around to rouse the ferment. I frequently
do successions of three brews with the last two on the sediment of the
previous. Even with the first of the series, though, I have not had problems.
As I said, I aerate well or oxygenate and use a fairly large starter.
So my conclusion is that 1968 doesn't need rousing if sufficient yeast and
aeration is used.
I like 1968 because after a week it is through and clear. Besides, I like
the beer it produces.
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins@imtn.dsccc.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 14:38:08 -0700
From: brian_dixon@om.cv.hp.com
Subject: Online source of Gott/Rubbermaid 5-gallon and 10-gallon round coolers
Jay Spies noted in his post concerning "LABCO Legal Banter" where to get
the ever-popular Rubbermaid (was Gott) round coolers that everyone likes
to use for mashing. BUT since you'd have missed it if you didn't spot
it where it was buried down at the bottom of the LABCO post, I thought
I'd spell it out again for everyone. I checked out the web site and
it's there all right, for $36.95 plus UPS shipping. Go to the following
URL and do a search on "cooler" (quickest way that I could find to find
the darn things):
http://www.wal-mart.com
Yup! Wal-Mart! That's the place!
Brian
.......................................................................
Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT
Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:56:41 -0600
From: jlandrem@atmel.com (John Landreman)
Subject: homebrew club liability
I wrote:
> There was an article in the Summer 1995 issue of Zymurgy that discussed
> incorporating your club as a non-profit corporation. By doing this, the
> corporation can be sued but in most cases the individual officers can not.
"Neil E. Okamoto" <neilo@hooked.net> replied:
> Are you sure about this? My recollection from my fraternity days is that the
> officers
> could (and likely would) be named in any action against the chapter house. I
> don't remember non-profit status having any bearing one way or the other.
I believe the difference is in being incorporated. I am not sure if a chapter
house is given the same status as a corporation.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 17:12:39 -0600
From: "Ben Oconnor" <BBOconnor@vines.ColoState.EDU>
Subject: Fermentation freezer in winter
For space reasons, I set up my fermentation freezer in the garage of my
duplex. I use a Johnson Control thermostat to override the power cord for
cooling in the summer. I opened up the thermostat and looked at it and I
don't think it has a heat circuit.
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to heat the inside of the freezer
during the winter and maintain a stable temperature? I need something
cheap and easy that has thermostatic control. I can live with having the
freezer temperature swing a couple of degrees either way from the set
point.
Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 12:10:57 +0900
From: Stephen Neate <Stephen.Neate@adl.soils.csiro.au>
Subject: Handling Agar
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 20:40:39 -0500
>From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
>Subject: Preparing Yeast culture media ???
snip
>It seems when I prepare the agar and pour it into the tubes or petri dishes
>I get a LOT of condensation. I prepare the media in a pressure cooker and
>leave the caps cracked open 1/4-1/2 a turn but the condensation never goes
>away. the dishes are even worse even though I let the agar cool down to a
>point where I can easily hold it before I pour.
>
>What do others do to eliminate this problem.
You probably dont want to hear this, but this is the way I handle tubes in
my laboratory and we dont have a problem.
The plates can be handled by allowing the agar to cool even more, it will
not set until it feels barely lukewarm (40-42 C), after a while you will
get to know the appropriate temperature. If it sets prematurely in the
bottle before pouring you can put it back into a boiling water bath to
melt. After you pour the plates and they have set you can invert them.
Stephen Neate
In Adelaide
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:03:32 -0700
From: The Holders <zymie@writeme.com>
Subject: Pacific Brewers Cup Results
The Results of the Pacific Brewers Cup '97 are now available at:
http://andinator.com/zymico/lbh/pac97.htm
Wayne Holder
Long Beach Homebrewers
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:46:16 -0800
From: John T Ross <johnross@alaska.net>
Subject: Conversions
I'm new to this forum. Just read HBD #2512. This has probably been
covered before and maybe I'll just be directed to the proper archived
HBD but I'd like to know the simplest procedure to convert an
extract/partial mash recipe to an all grain recipe. In effect:
3.3 lbs Muton & Fison Extra Light Syrup (unhopped/can)
4.0 lbs Alexander's Pale Malt Extract Syrup (unhopped/bulk)
0.5 lbs 7L Munich Malt (grains)
I think I'd probably try to utilize the same hop schedule
(boiling/finish) for a start. Thanks, :-) JR
------------------------------
Date: 24 Sep 97 00:52:24 MDT (Wed)
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: Cider
Rick Gontarek <gontarek@voicenet.com> asks about cider...
> In 1995, I brought my carboy to a local apple orchard and had it filled
> with 5 gallons of fresh unpasteurized cider. At home I added 1 lb. light
> brown sugar and rehydrated champagne yeast. The o.g. was 1.052, and less
> than two weeks later it was bottled at a f.g of 1.000 (I added 3/4 cup
> corn sugar to carbonate). The cider was good for a week or two, but then
> it got really dry and then overcarbonated; the rest of the bottled cider
> had to be pitched for fear of exploding bottles.
Comments from this (which Rick had mostly figured out, but let's make sure
they're clear): Bottling was too early, and a champagne yeast will ferment
every last bit of sugar it can find, so the remaining few points of sugar
in the cider plus the generous priming made for a lot of carbonation.
> Last year, I wanted a hard cider with a bit more sweetness, with less
> winey characteristics. So, I used 2.5 gallond unpasteurized cider, 2 lb.
> light brown sugar, and Ale yeast (Wyeast 1056). I used an ale yeast
> because I figured that I could get rid of that winey flavor, and also
> because I was hoping to get a higher f.g. The o.g. was 1.060, and 10
> days later it was bottled at f.g 1.005 (adding about 1/3 cup corn
> sugar). Again, it became way overcarbonated and winey.
This is a better approach, but a healthy ale yeast can still ferment out
that much sugar. Stop for a moment...consider that if you're getting fresh
unpasteurized juice from an orchard, there's likely enough yeast in it to
carry out the fermentation without an added yeast. (This is anathema to a
brewer unless he's making lambics in Brussels, but it's normal practice for
cider-making.) The yeasts on the apples are likely to go at it slower, but
they're still likely to carry the fermentation all the way to dry.
Now, what is really meant by a "winey flavor"? Is it excess alcohol--a bit
of hot taste? Is it a thin character? These can both come from fermenting
out, but they can also come from the wrong apples. Standard wisdom here is
that you need some sharp apples (Jonathan, for example), to maintain tart-
ness in the result...and that's relatively easy...but you also need some
bitter apples to carry tannin into the result. That's hard to do with
normal American eating apples. If you can get some crabapples pressed for
you, a little bit of that juice will add a lot of backbone and take away
the thin/watery taste you might be getting.
> What I am shooting for is a hard cider that doesn't get overcarbonated
> and manages to retain a little residual sweetness...
This is difficult, because you're asking the yeast to stop much sooner than
they normally would. There's this sort of square of combinations...
dry/still --- dry/sparkling
| |
| |
sweet/still --- sweet/sparkling
The dry side is easy--you ferment out all the sugar, then if you want it to
be sparkling, you add just enough sugar at bottling to get the carbonation
you want. Sweet/still is relatively easy: ferment out, stabilize (i.e.,
kill the yeast) and sweeten at bottling. Sweet/sparkling is hard unless
you can do your own carbonation--in which case you make a stable still/
sweet cider and force-carbonate it. It's just very hard (and unpredictable)
to get the yeast to give up after they've carbonated the right amount but
left you with some sugar...especially at the relatively low alcohol levels
of reasonable cider.
You can maintain some sweetness in a still cider by a different approach--
essentially, starve the yeast. This involves racking several times to get
away from the nutrients in the lees and on the top. But this isn't going
to work very well if you're starting with juice from commercial orchards
that are fertilized to push the trees...because the heavy doses of N in the
fertilizer carry over into the juice as food for yeast.
> ...What I don't understand is if I bottle at a f.g. of
> 1.000 and add 3/4 cup corn sugar why it gets overcarbonated...
There are two factors. First, 3/4 cup corn sugar is on the high side of
what it takes to prime 5 gallons. (I have a standard diatribe against
weighing priming sugar...the gist of it is that it's unreliable because
corn sugar is available in several grinds which measure/weigh and compact
differently. But by any measure, 3/4 cup is a lot.) The second factor is
that at 1.000, fermentation is probably not even close to done. Don't be
mis-led by your brewing experience...you may finish at 1.005-1.010 for a
beer, or even 1.020 for a barley wine, but you don't see anywhere near that
sort of residual sugar in a cider. If you're boosting it with sugar,
figure you're going to end up around 0.997 or less if you really let it
ferment out. 3 points is about as much as you get from the priming! So if
you prime and bottle at 1.000, but it would have fermented out to 0.997,
it's like you're priming twice.
With cider, you need to think more like wine-making. Fermentations will
take longer, or at least they *should* take longer: You don't *want* a rip-
roaring quick fermentation. Also, you're going to hit a lower fg.
One suggestion, only partly facetious, is to learn to appreciate still
ciders. There's nothing that says cider needs to be carbonated.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd, domain talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2514, 09/25/97
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