Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #2515
HOMEBREW Digest #2515 Fri 26 September 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Citrussy Hop Tastes (smith57)
freezer problems (Mark Tumarkin)
Steinbrew Question ("C&S Peterson")
Duvel (Kit Anderson)
Cabbage smell in fermenter (Ian Smith)
Ferulic acid (George J Fix)
Hard Cider,rotten egg,modification,iodine ("David R. Burley")
Preparing Yeast culture media ??? ("Anton Verhulst")
Cider/Wine Making (Mark Witherspoon)
TRUB IX OPEN (HOUCK KEITH A)
hop bitterness rule-of-thumb (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY)
cider (Mel D Irvin)
Yeast Revival Question (Steve Altimari)
Re: IPA (Sheena McGrath)
Re: saccrification and iodine test (brian_dixon)
Liability Protection for Homebrew Clubs ("John G. Petruna")
Monster Starters (Charley Burns)
Brass Fittings - Getting The Lead Out (Jeff Hewit)
45 deg C rest and gummy adjuncts (John Rezabek)
George is stoned ("John Heubel")
PET bottles (DOUGWEISER)
freezer heating control (Forrest Duddles)
Competition Announcement (Jim Hinken)
All-grain beginner questions (Doug Moyer)
Oxygenation (David Whitwell)
Looking for authentic Brett. yeast from Oak Barrel (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
Thought Experiment.,warm freezer,premature gelatinization ("David R. Burley")
MCAB announcement ("Alan McKay")
Re: Dry hopping in 2ndary, fermentation started again, IMBR? (Andrew E Howard)
Hop Table (Adam=Fisher)
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hbd.org
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to homebrew-request@hbd.org.
**SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL
**ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to brewery@realbeer.com
Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org
Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via:
Anonymous ftp from...
hbd.org /pub/hbd
ftp.stanford.edu /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
E-mail...
ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com (send a one-line e-mail message with
the word help for instructions.)
AFS users can find it under...
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:14:25 -0700
From: smith57@sprynet.com
Subject: Citrussy Hop Tastes
Greetings collective, it's been awhile.
Quick question on citrusy hop traits. I have found the overuse of Cascades
to produce this effects in a lot of craft brew lately. In one of my own
recent homebrews made with Chinook (boiling) and Liberty flavor/dry hop I
found a similar citrussy effect that surprised me. I suspect the Liberty
although I have not noticed it before with this hop. Any suggestions? The
bags looked properly sealed and marked before use.
TIA.
-jack in west point
smith57@sprynet.com
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/smith57/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:46:36 -0400
From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin@mindspring.com>
Subject: freezer problems
Hi All:
Eric writes:
>On the heels of Dave in Dallas's refrigerator problem, I
>have an interesting freezer problem. A couple of weeks ago, I
>bought a used chest freezer, made by Montgomery Ward, that has
>about 14 cubic feet of space. The freezer appeared to work when
>I bought it (it had some frozen ice cube trays in it). When I
>brought it home, I let it set for a week before I plugged it
>in because I was waiting for my temperature controller. When I
>plugged it in to the temperature controller, I turned it down to
>20 degrees Fahrenheit to see if it would work. No luck. The
>best temp it would get was 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Next, I decided
>to unplug the controller. The freezer would still only get down
>to 40. Then I tried putting some jugs of water in there to see if
>this would help (thermal mass, etc), but it would still not get
>below 40.
> Interestingly, frost develeloped near the top of the inside
>rear wall of the freezer. If I felt the walls of the freezer,
>this was the only area that was _really_ cold. Then I tried
>putting a fan on the inside to see if this would spread the cool
>air around, but this did not work. In fact the inside temperature
>was higher, probably due to heat created by the fan.
> Luckily, the freezer is holding ale fermentation temps. Does
>this sound like it is low on freon? The way that the frost is
>forming, it would seem to me like all of the cooling coils are
>not working. Why would it only get frost in one area? I really
>hate to invest a lot more money on this freezer. Any ideas will
>be greatly appreciated.
I am not a refrigerator repairman (nor do I play one on tv) but your
problem sounds similar to one I recently had. We have a refrigerator with a
side by side freezer. It is relatively new (4+ years old), but recently I
went to get something from the freezer and found that it was partially
defrosted. Like yours, it still seemed to be working - but wasn't getting
cold enough. It was still under warranty so we called and had the repairman
come out.
Luckily I've got a beer fridge, so we transferred everything into that one.
When we got it emptied, I could see that it was defrosting in the upper
part but at the bottom it was still frosty. The repairman determined that
it was the defrost thermostat that had failed. I don't fully understand
the mechanics, but I believe it was going into a defrost cycle and not
coming out of it. The part was very cheap (unfortunately that part was no
longer covered under the limited warranty - of course)and looked easy to
change. Like many things, it wasn't difficult to change - just to know what
to change. Good luck.
Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 12:36:09 UT
From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON@classic.msn.com>
Subject: Steinbrew Question
HBDers -
Thanks to George, I too am curious to try a hot rock brew. In reading some of
the suggestions for technique and material, I was wondering if there could be
some sort of substitute product for the rock. Would some sort off stainless
steel objects (nuts/bolts) or ceramic pieces (smash an old coffee cup?) be
used instead? Will such objects be able to take the 500 degee heat? Clearly
the object of hot-rocking your wort is to create some carmelized sugars on the
surface of the object. Perhaps these substitutes may offer some safer, more
predictable results that rock (although there is some appeal to using rock,
simply for historical significance). Also, I wonder that if these objects
were left in the boil for 60-90 minutes, wouldn't that be sufficient to
dissolve the carmels sticking to their surfaces?. I would prefer such a
process so that I didn't have to store the carmelizing objects to later be
tossed into the secondary.
It would be interesting to hear from those brave souls that have tried this
type of brewing. I would also like to hear more of the results of brews
crated this way.
I was interested to hear the discussions on the German Mixed Ale category for
George Fix and others. As has been mentioned here in this forum, many of us
have not had the pleasure to enjoy a true German Kolsch, but instead are
limited to what select brewpubs offer. This year I had what I thought was a
decent representation of a Kolsch style beer, only to have it knocked heavily
in the first round for being too bitter (1.051 OG, 28 IBUs, 5 SRM). One judge
even suggested that the beer be entered in the APA category! Now this beer
was a bit on the bitter side, but maybe I should have taken a page out of
George's book, thrown in some carmel malt, and called it an alt. C'est la
gare. Glad to see that the categories are changed for 98 -- a have a few
bottles of the Kolsch left; maybe I should enter them again and see if the
score changes.
I still find it frustrating that their appears to be no "authentic" commercial
examples of Kolsch in the states.
Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:16:50 -0700
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Duvel
I am going to try a Duvel clone. In Jackson's Great Beers of Belgium, he
describe the process as;
1. mash with 2 row to 1056 OG
2. divide batch in two and each gets a different yeast
3. some time after fermenting starts, add dextrose to bring OG to 1066
4. after finishing, add more dextrose to bring it to 1073 and bottle
Is there a reason NOT to add all the dextrose upon pitching?
Adding 7 points for bottling seems awfully high.
- --
Kit Anderson ICQ# 2242257
Bath, Maine Greetings From Northeast Texas
<kitridge@bigfoot.com> http://web0.tiac.net/users/garhow/kit/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:43:47 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Subject: Cabbage smell in fermenter
Immediately after chilling my wort through my counter flow heat exchanger I
noticed a smell like cabbage in the carboy. Does anyone know what this could
be ? My grain bill was 13 lbs Hugh Baird 2 row pale, 1lb crystal and 1 lb
Munich. Hops were chinook and goldings.
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 09:54:35 -0500
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Ferulic acid
I slightly disaree with Steve Alexander on the ferulic acid
issue. The yeast strains I prefer won't touch ferulic acid
with "ten foot pole". Moreover, I conjecture that (Weizens
aside) that phenolic tones found in beer has much more to
do with the presence of nonculture yeast than the mash
schedule used.
Cheers.
George Fix
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:59:04 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Hard Cider,rotten egg,modification,iodine
Brewsters:
Rick Gontarek asks how to avoid getting dry
overcarbonated cider. =
In the first place, a hydrometer makes a lousy
measurement for the end of a fermentation
in which you have so many things going on.
Try Clinitest kit with pills(see past HBDs)
to assure yourself that all of the reducible
sugars are gone ( <1/4% on the test). =
In this case however, since you used
unpasteurized, unpreserved cider and malic acid
is a major apple acid, you likely have a malo-lactic
fermentation going on which releases
carbon dioxide and is causing the overcarbonation.
Residual yeast in the cider will ferment out
the sugar you add to prime. After the yeast fermentation,
I suggest you keep the cider warm (70F)
for a few weeks to allow the malo-lactic fermentation
to continue, then bottle with lactose to make
the cider sweet and an appropriate (less than beer)
amount of priming sugar with an active yeast culture. =
- ------------------------------
Jon Bovard writes about a rotten egg smell =
in his beer. In winemaking minute quantities
( a few ppm) of copper sulfate is added and
the copper sulfide precipitated out which removes
the smell. Check out a winemaking book
for directions and be aware that copper in
too high quantities can be poisonous.
- ------------------------------ =
SteveA says:
> For this reason SNR
>makes sense when comparing the degree of modification of different
>malts.
Sorry, but DeClerk says that resynthesis
of proteins during malting makes SNR
useless as an indicator of modification.
And I suspect is especially useless in
comparing modification between
barley strains and above all different malts.
Throughout this discussion no one (me too) has
offered modern data on the molecular weight
of protein content during different lengths
of malting as proof of contentions. Also I find
it equally disturbing that no one has focussed on
glucans which contribute to a major degree
(like75%) to the hardness of the kernel.
It is easy for me to see that the fine-coarse
grind test is a measure of the degradation
(sort of modification indicator) of the barley glucans
along with the proteins and that the continuing
degradation of these glucans in spite of the
re-synthesis of the proteins are the cause of the
mechanical changes in the grain, leading
to access for the enzymes to the starch
during brewing. I can understand why these
glucans were not the focus of our forebrewers,
since they were difficult to analyse for with the
then-current techniques ( like Kjeldahl nitrogen).
We have no such excuse today and I
suspect the information is sitting there.
Any information of glucans?
- ----------------------------------------------
Bret Morrow says:
>. I have had negative (not =
>blue) iodine tests on the clear liquid of simple infusion mashes =
>(148-155 oF) in 20 to 35 min over a number of years. I have, however, =
>followed the advice of the late, great Dave Line and mashed for about =
>90-120 min. My yields are respectable, about 30-32 points per pound. =
>My questions are 1) Why the heck can't I stop at 30-40 min after a =
>negative iodine test? 2) Is most the usable starch in the liquid? =
The simple answer is you shouldn't stop
after a brief hold at saccharification because
although a lot of the usable starch is
available for reaction, not all of it is.
I suggest boiling the sample with the =
malt grains before the test, since I believe
it is better to err on the side of getting
all of the starch, than to not get all of it and
risk a starch haze. I urge those who comment =
about the possibilty of "lost" starch not
accessible to the enzymes skewing this result
to actually try this test modification before
commenting further.
- -----------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com =
Voice e-mail OK =
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:26:15 -0400
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst@zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Preparing Yeast culture media ???
From: Jim Wallace:
>It seems when I prepare the agar and pour it into the tubes or petri dishes
>I get a LOT of condensation. I prepare the media in a pressure cooker and
>leave the caps cracked open 1/4-1/2 a turn but the condensation never goes
>away...... What do others do to eliminate this problem.
I use pretty much the same technique. I find that, over time, most of the
condensation in the slants is absorbed by the agar to the point where it's
not a problem. A 2% agar mix works very well for me. A lower agar percentage
might make the condensation worse.
- --Tony V
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:50:07 -0400
From: bveq97@nestle.he.boeing.com (Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: Cider/Wine Making
Also Sprach Rick Gontarek:
Trying to keep it slightly sweet and carbonate...
OK, you will have a large problems:
1. Using Cane sugar adds to the winey taste.
2. Fermenting dry but adding more sugar to
bottle adds to the winey taste.
3. Not using wine yeast.
1. Dont use cane sugar unless you do want wine.
2 & 3. Wine yeast tolerate higher sugar/ETOH levels,
you will need to kill them off. Champane yeast will
go dormant after all the sugar is gone. Then add more
sugar to carbonate and IT will wake up. But almost
all Champane is dry or brute dry.
To make it sweet is to add so much sugar that it will
die of ETOH poisoning (wine/Champane will die out
around 18-20%). Add enough sugar (corn to keep from
winey taste) to bring your Plato values up to 16%.
Then add yeast, ferment. Add more sugar carbonate and
leftovers to keep it sweet.
OR
Kill off the yeast will Potassium Sorbate, add more sugar,
carbonate in a keg and bottle from there.
I have made wine for several years now. This is the
way that most major winery's make Champane. The old
way of adding sugar back to naturally carbonate is
very rare.
Mark Witherspoon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:51:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: HOUCK KEITH A <HOUCK_KEITH_A@LILLY.COM>
Subject: TRUB IX OPEN
Hear yea, hear yea: the TRiangle's Unabashed HomeBrewers (TRUB) announces
the 9th annual TRUB OPEN, Saturday, November 1, 1997 at Steve and Clark's
Brewpub in Durham, NC.
This AHA-sanctioned event typically draws 200-250 entries with prizes
galore including the opportunity for BOS winner to brew a batch at Steve
and Clark's brewpub. All AHA categories will be accepted though there are
no awards for sake. In addition, the "Just Good Beer" category returns for
an encore performance. Details for competition entry can be obtained from
the TRUB IX OPEN web site at "http://www.mindspring.com/~trub9/", or by
e-mailing "trub9@mindspring.com", the Competition Director Gary Clayton
(garyclayton@mindspring.com) or Registrar Bill Mackenzie
(dedpetvet@aol.com).
Judges and stewards are cordially invited for a weekend of conviviality
highlighted by the infamous Halloween party Saturday night featuring at
least 10 kegs of premium homebrew graciously provided by Andy Kagan and
Keith Klemp. Saturday's competition will include morning and afternoon
judging sessions as well as continental breakfast and lunch. Limited
lodging opportunities may be available for out-of-town judges. BJCP points
awarded as well as the usual honorarium. Interested judges/stewards, please
contact Director of Judging Keith Houck (hak@lilly.com) (919-419-3714).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:33:45 -0500
From: layton@sc45.dseg.ti.com (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY)
Subject: hop bitterness rule-of-thumb
Danny Boy wrote:
>Speaking as a
>homebrewer who would dream of a 122 degree rest, and who rarely checks
>S.G., I'd simply like to know *about* how much to fudge things so an old
>favorite extract/partial boil recipe doesn't totally knock my socks off
>with hoppiness when I attempt an all-grain/full boil version.
I checked a couple of entry level homebrewing books on my shelf for recipes
which might give some kind of answer to this question. What I looked for
were partial boil and full boil recipes of the same beer style in the same
book. What I found was that the full boil recipes used about 25% less
bittering hops than the partial boil recipes, on average, for the same beer
style. I think this is a reasonable "rule of thumb".
>Whatever happened to seat o' the pants brewing, anyway?
It is alive and well, but IMO these brewers should expect occasional
surprises (both good and bad) in how their beer turns out. Myself, I always
to do a little math and come up with an IBU prediction for every recipe
I brew. Surprises in the hop bittering department are something I prefer
to avoid. I want every batch I brew to come out as good as I can make it.
Try the online hop bitterness calculator at Glen Tinseth's Hop Page
(http://realbeer.com/hops/). Look to the AHA or BJCP style guidelines for
IBU ranges in particular beer styles. What could be easier?
Jim Layton (Howe, TX)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:59:31 -0400
From: melathome@juno.com (Mel D Irvin)
Subject: cider
>Last year, I wanted a hard cider with a bit more sweetness, with less
>winey characteristics. So, I used 2.5 gallond unpasteurized cider, 2 lb.
SNIP
I do 2 batches every fall. 5 gallons of cider and 4-5 lbs honey in each,
one with champagne yeast and one with either a wine or ale yeast,
depending on the mood. I leave in primary for 2-3 weeks, and then
secondary for another 2-3 before bottling. Never have a problem with
bottle rockets. I usually try to have it ready by thanksgiving and take
a six-pack with me whenever we go to a gathering between then and the
holidays. This year I am going to try adding a cinnamon stick to one of
the batches.
Hope this helps,
Mel in Upstate NY
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:22:22 -0700
From: Steve Altimari <vllybrew@inreach.com>
Subject: Yeast Revival Question
Does anyone remember an article a few years back about an old shipwreck
that someone rescued some bottles of Bass Ale from and revived the
yeast? If so, or if you have information on yeast revival (not the
religious variety) please drop me a line.
Thanks,
Steve Altimari
vllybrew@inreach.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:50:14 -0700
From: Sheena McGrath <sheena@gte.net>
Subject: Re: IPA
Dear Homebrew Collective:
I just had to respond to the IPA thread. When I lived in England
(1993-7) I found that most IPAs aren't worthy of the name and are drunk
by people who don't really apprecicate beer. Having said this, there are
exceptions, and the gentleman who went to GBBF probably only had good
ones. I am hoping that since Whitbread made Fuggles IPA other breweries
are going to start reviving this style and make proper beers. It's not
so much that the English appreciate a different kind of IPA, but that
it's what the breweries give them. Don't assume that because it's
English it must be good.
Sheena
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 97 14:13:54 -0700
From: brian_dixon@om.cv.hp.com
Subject: Re: saccrification and iodine test
[snip]
>forum as well as post a question or three. I have had negative (not
>blue) iodine tests on the clear liquid of simple infusion mashes
>(148-155 oF) in 20 to 35 min over a number of years. I have, however,
>followed the advice of the late, great Dave Line and mashed for about
>90-120 min. My yields are respectable, about 30-32 points per pound.
>My questions are 1) Why the heck can't I stop at 30-40 min after a
>negative iodine test? 2) Is most the usable starch in the liquid? 3)
>Are there any other desirable changes other than saccrification that
>occur during a simple infusion mash?
1) The reason you shouldn't ultimately rely on the iodine test is
because it doesn't really test for what you want to know. Huhh? What
you want to know is whether or not all the available and convertable
starches have converted to a) maltose (fermentable), b) maltotriose
(fermentable by some beer yeasts), and c) dextrins (unfermentable). If
complete conversion to one of these three categories has not taken
place, then two things are at stake, the first of which is not important
IMHO: a) you haven't gotten the highest yield out of your grist, and b)
residual starches exist that can cause haze in your beer. With all that
said, then lets ask what the iodine test tests for? Yes, iodine turns
blue (red, or purple) in the presence of starch. Yes, it remains the
same brown color when the 3 sugar types that I mentioned above exist and
nothing else. The issue is that there are higher-order dextrins and
simple starches that do NOT cause the iodine to turn color, thereby
indicating their presence. The only way to make sure that you've
converted these middle-weights is to make sure your mash pH is correct,
your mash temperature is correct, your mash thickness is correct, enough
enzymes exist to do the conversion, AND you allow the mash to rest at
saccharification temperatures long enough. Hence the disdain by some
expert brewers concerning the iodine test, and the consistent
recommendation of a 60 minute (or longer) sacc-rest in spite of the fact
that the iodine test indicates complete conversion after only half an
hour. On the other hand, personal experience, and the experience of
others, has shown that you can produce clear beer with a nice head and
good flavor characteristics with a shorter sacc-rest, say 35-45 minutes
or so. But, what's so hard about waiting an additional 20-30 minutes?
I like to take the chance to get the rest of the equipment ready with no
hurry, and let the sacc-rest go as long as it takes me to get everything
done: 60 - 90 minutes is typical, and just right. The lesson is that
you can do what you want, but do it knowingly, considering the pro's and
con's like you do with the rest of the brewing process.
>If there are no other important reactions in a simple infusion mash, I
>think the best "test" of the iodine test is to do 2 mashes with
>identical parameters changing only the time (e.g. 30 and 90 min) and
>compare the yields. Anyone tried this?
This would not necessarily show you what you want because the
middle-weight dextrins and simple starches mentioned above are soluble
and will end up in your wort either way, giving you a similar SG to what
you'd see in a wort made from a fully converted mash and the impression
of adequate yield. You _should_ do this experiment, but do it with a
split recipe and a split yeast starter, fermenting the beers in exactly
the same way etc. When you are done, you can compare final gravities,
clarity, head formation and retention, flavor etc. to see if the mashing
schedules made that much of a difference. Who knows? I haven't read
anything on that particular experiment, so it'd be interesting to see.
(When you're done, post the results here, and write up an article for
BrewingTechniques ... they're paying $50-200 for articles now, depending
on how many words, graphics, photos, etc. are provided and how much work
_they_ need to do to get the article ready to publish).
Good luck, Bret!
Brian
.......................................................................
Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT
Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:23:38 -0400
From: "John G. Petruna" <jpesquire@penn.com>
Subject: Liability Protection for Homebrew Clubs
As an attorney, I think I can shed some light on the usefulness or
effectiveness of forming a non-profit organization to waive liability among
members of a homebrew club. I assume no liability for your reliance on this
information. The truly worried or panicky among you are encouraged to print
out this message and review it with the local attorney of your choice.
At least as far as Pennsylvania law is concerned (and I believe it is
typical), the formation of an association or non-profit organization will
have no effect on your liability for damages to third parties, and is not
necessary for protection among members. Further, a corporation would likely
not provide any protection against liability (because a court would likely
"pierce the corporate veil" of limited liability once it was able to
ascertain that the corporation was a sham, having no ongoing business
purpose and no operating capital; doubly true where homebrew is illegal!).
Don't forget the likelihood or certainty that individual members would also
be named as defendants, bypassing the corporate form altogether.
One can draft a simple indemnification agreement without a corporate form,
but it would only protect against the damages of other members, not of
injured third parties. A simple example will illustrate this: A, B and C
sign an agreement stating that each will indemnify and hold harmless each of
the others for damages arising out of the operation of a homebrew club
(actual language is more detailed). At each meeting, they diligently sample
and enjoy several fine-quality homebrews. After the meeting, A is already
at home and B arranges for a taxi ride, while C, who is hammered, strikes D
with his car on the way home (also injuring himself). When the lawsuits are
filed (and they will be filed...), the agreement will probably protect A and
B from owing any damages to C, but D was not a party to the agreement and
cannot be bound by it. Thus D COULD sue A, B and C.
On the other hand, in Pennsylvania, although D could sue A or B, she
probably would not win because, to my knowledge, private hosts in Penna.
have not yet been found liable for the actions of their drunken guests.
Other states can and do vary on this last point, which sometimes is even
treated statutorily.
If, however, you are worried about damages for injuries to your fellow
homebrewers (exploding bottles? bits of broken hydrometer in the beer?
botulism? methanol?), an indemnity agreement would be helpful to protect you
from their suits. But if this is your concern, maybe you should stick to
that fancy, storebought beer. ;)
(Of course, to find out the specific rules in your state, get your own
attorney. Regarding this message, I understand and fully expect that other
attorneys in the collective will add to--or perhaps correct (!?!)--this
information as they see fit. This is welcomed.)
The solution: as with all uses of alcohol, be smart! Maybe the
AHA-Papazian slogan should be amended to read:
"Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew! Just don't be an idiot."
JP in PA
Brewer of tangy, diacetyl-laden, opaque, chlorophenol-saturated beverages
since late July.
My slogan: "It's the lactobacillius acidophilus that makes it tangy!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 17:28:43 -0700
From: Charley Burns <cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Monster Starters
In response to Steve A.'s post regarding creating larger starters (8 oz
of slurry in 1 quart - wow!).
Last night was week 5 of our BJCP study group and the tech topic of the
night was yeast. David Brattstrom (already BJCP certified) joined us
again last night and he related a theory about this (starters) that
someone at UC Davis (a friend of his) is working on. I think he said it
was a master's thesis or doctoral dissertation.
Anyway, the gist of this theory is that when we are stepping up
starters, its common practice to take them to high krausen and
immediately feed them more wort, generating almost instant growth. This
can go on for several cycles. This person's (name unknown) theory is
that when we do this, we are 1)"training" the yeast to go for the the
simplest sugars and ignore the more difficult to metabolize, and 2) we
aren't giving they yeast any time to build strength in the cell walls.
The results could be yeast that a) can't handle the more complex sugars
and b) that die young resulting in "stuck" fermentation.
This guy's recommendation is to let the yeast fully ferment the starter
including the yeast going to dormancy. Its on the way to dormancy that
the yeast rebuild their strength in their cell walls which just makes
them that much stronger when reawakened and re-oxygenated later. It also
lets them work on the tougher sugars so they don't get too lazy.
Sounds like a good theory, probably a bugger to emperically test. I'm
sure I've oversimplified and maybe even screwed it up completely but it
sounds plausible to me. I personally never seem to catch my starters at
high krausen (except once) so I don't think I've ever tested this
theory.
FWIW
Charley (learning all about yeast, porters and stouts) in N. Cal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:47:49 -0400
From: Jeff Hewit <jhewit@erols.com>
Subject: Brass Fittings - Getting The Lead Out
I have seen in a few places (including here, I think) discussion about
making sure no lead from brass valves and other plumbing items gets into our
beer. The recommended fix is to soak brass items in a 2:1 mixture of
vinegar and peroxide. I've tried this. My ball valve, nipples, and other
various brass fittings turned a nice soft buttery gold, and turned the
solution blue. I guess this worked in getting the lead out. However, it's
been more years than I care to admit since I paid serious attention to
chemical reactions, so I have no idea what happenned. I'm sure there are
more than a few of you who can describe what reaction took place.
Thanks,
Jeff Hewit
Midlothian, VA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:09:45 -0400
From: John Rezabek <rezabeks@alpha.wcoil.com>
Subject: 45 deg C rest and gummy adjuncts
Steve Alexander writes:
> The mash-in at 40C of the Fix regime is awfully close to the ferulic
> acid generating optima temp.
What to do . . . I'm all ready to try a 115 F rest for a recipe that
includes a fair amount of flaked rye (between 10 & 15 percent of the
total grist). This proportion of rye has "caused" stuck sparges for me 2
out of 5 times. Supposedly 115 F (46 C) is a really good temperature for
beta-glucanase and her relations, which might reduce the gums and make
for smoother sparging.
Although I occasionally ferment these rye worts with a traditional
hefe-weizen yeast (e.g. Yeast Lab W51) I like to use a more normal ale
yeast occasionally, like Wyeast 1007 or 1056. But I sure don't want
those scary off-flavor precursors either . . . any thoughts?
John Rezabek
rezabeks@alpha.wcoil.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 21:32:53 -0500
From: "John Heubel" <jlheubel@wf.net>
Subject: George is stoned
George de Piro wrote:
"For some reason, I can't get the idea of making a Steinbier out of my
head. Does anybody out there have any ideas about what types of rocks
to use, how hot to heat them, how to heat them, how to clean them,
etc.?
Also, are there special safety concerns? I would guess that dropping
a few 500F rocks into the kettle might cause a bit of an eruption, no?
Also, any ideas on how to move the hot rocks? I guess if they are
small enough, I could just use kitchen tongs, but would using many
small rocks present too much surface area for caramelization?"
The Winter 92 Zymurgy cover story was about Steinbier and I too have been
stoned for some time trying to get my hands on the correct rocks. Here's
some of the info I've found out:
The article (or a follow up) mentions that Graywacke is the rock du jour at
Rauchenfels. It is also known as "dirty sandstone" according to Britannica.
One of the specimens( Ordovician lithic wacke) pictured comes from Austin
Glen, NY if that's nearby George. Anywho, the graywacke expands during
heating causing an even greater surface area for the wort to caramelize on
and into.
The most recent BT also has a short blurb on it and the Brimstone Brewery
(Baltimore MD) uses diabase which is a volcanic stone sometimes associated
with granite (which can also be used). The Zymurgy authors used quartzite.
and had good results. Bottom line: find some rocks that can take some
serious heat without fracturing when dipped into relatively cool (near
boiling) wort.
Some info on Rauchenfels Steinbiere:
O.G. 1.045 0.64# of stones per gallon of wort
The Z authors used 1/2oz German Northern Brewer plugs for bittering and
1/2oz Tettnang (not to be confused with Fuggle) 20 min later. They
finished with 3/4 oz Tett after 40 min more. Your best Altbier recipe
should be a good start. Wyeast 1338 European was used for historical
(pre-lager) purposes, though it would also go well with a lager yeast it
seems.
They heated the rocks in a cinder-block fire chamber, fire being of oak
wood (I plan on using Apricot wood from some tree branches I need to get
rid of) and they had a fan blowing on it to keep it stoked. They did give
them an acid batch after a good scrubbing, but didn't mention strength or
acid type. The rocks were placed in a tea strainer ( though I imagine one
of those brass hanging kitchen baskets would work fine) and dunked into the
wort. Once removed, they were cooled and then wrapped in foil and bagged
in a freezer to await secondary.
Rocks need to fit in the fermenter ( I plan on secondary in a corny, so
fist size should do) and remember to leave a little head space for the
renewed ferment.
Hope this helps. If the batch goes well, send me some ;o).
John Heubel
Wichita Falls, TX
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 00:53:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: DOUGWEISER@aol.com
Subject: PET bottles
HBD collective:
I have a question regarding the use of PET bottles for long term storage of
homebrew. I know that the general concensus is that these "soda bottles" are
not suitable for storage for more than a few weeks or months at best. I
recently discovered several bottles of homebrew which have been in PET
bottles for 18 months. This beer was never carbonated, but rather it was put
into the PET bottles from the fermenter, the bottle was squeezed to bring the
liquid to the top and eliminate any air space, and capped in this squished
position. Now, after 18 months, the bottles are still squished the same
amount. If oxygen had migrated through the plastic as is supposed to happen,
wouldn't the bottles have expanded to their original shape? I'm curious
whether this may indicate that PET bottles may not be as bad as everone seems
to think. Anyone know whether the bottles would have expanded if oxygen had
migrated inside? I plan to carbonate a bottle soon, to taste it for
oxidation.
TIA, Doug in Winnetka, CA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:39:30 -0400
From: Forrest Duddles <duddles@Imbecile.kzoo.edu>
Subject: freezer heating control
Hi folks,
Ben O'Connor asked about winter heating control for a chest freezer.
The Johnson A19 controllers commonly used by home brewers have 3 terminals
- Common, Close on rise, and Open on rise. For cooling control the common
and close on rise terminals are used. For heating. disconnect the wire from
the close on rise terminal and attach it to the open on rise terminal then
set the controller for the desired temperature.
The choice of heat source is up to you. I've seen many types of small
heaters, light bulbs, etc used. Start small. It doesn't take much of a heat
source to maintain 40-70 degrees in a freezer. I use an old coffee maker
hot plate element (it doesn't emit light).
I use a Ranco digital controller which is meant as a replacement for the
Johnson A19. It is easily adjustable from -20 to 150 degF and has an
accurate differential adjustment. It can also be wired to both cooling and
heat sources and use either as needed to achieve setpoint. I found mine at
a refrigeration parts supplier for about $40.
Hope this helps!
Forrest Duddles duddles@Imbecile.kzoo.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:12:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Hinken <jhinken@accessone.com>
Subject: Competition Announcement
The Brews Brothers, Seattle's oldest homebrewing club announces the
Novembeerfest 1997 homebrewing competition. The competition will be held
Saturday, November 1, at the Elysian Brewing Company, 1511 Seventh Ave,
Seattle, WA.
Started in 1991, Novembeerfest has grown from a local competition to the
most respected competition in the Pacific Northwest. This year's
competition features something new - Fame! The Brews Brothers have arranged
for the following respected breweries and brewpubs to produce four or five
of the top scoring beers for commercial release to the public! The breweries
are:
Elysian Brewing Co. - Seattle, Washington
La Conner Brewing Co. - La Conner, Washington*
Twin Rivers Brewing - Monroe, Washington
Flying Pig Brewpub - Everett, Washington
* Still in planning phase
We are still in the planning stages with the 5th, hopefully soon to be
announced brewery. Winning beers to be brewed are subject to the approval
and system limitations of the breweries.
Entries will be accepted from all AHA style catagories including cider and
mead. Three bottles are required for entry and the entry fee is U.S.$5. The
standard AHA entry form and bottle lables may be used or contact Rob Nelson
at the number below and entry forms will be faxed to you. Entry deadline is
October 29, 1997. Late entries will be received until 5:00 PM on Friday,
Oct. 31, with a late entry fee of U.S. $10. Entries may be shipped to
Jim Hinken
24211 4th Place West
Bothell, WA. 98021
(425) 483-9324
Visit our web site at http://www.brewsbrothers.org.
Interested Judges may contact Rob at the address below or me at
jhinken@accessone.com.
For entry forms or more information, contact:
Brother Rob Nelson
Post Office Box 1016
Duvall, WA 98019-1016
Phone: (425) 788-0271
Fax: (425) 788-0271 (self detecting machine)
E-mail: Nelson@witty.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:05:28 -0400
From: Doug Moyer <moyer-de@salem.ge.com>
Subject: All-grain beginner questions
Dearest Digest,
A few relatively minor questions:
(1) In the latest Brewing Techniques, they discuss building a manifold
for a cooler-type mash tun and say to put the slots in the manifold
facing up. Why? Wouldn't you be able to get more of the last runnings if
the slots were down? (I know, it's only a couple of ounces, but I worked
long & hard to get those ounces!)
(2) When you are recirculating the wort for clarity, does it matter how
fast you run off the liquid? With my setup, I can probably get a gal/min
with the valve wide open. Would that be a bad idea?
TIA,
Doug Moyer
Big Lick Brewing Collective
"Big Lick - The best way to go down the drain!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 22:52:59 -0700
From: dwhitwell@foxcomm.net (David Whitwell)
Subject: Oxygenation
I am preparing to brew a Belgian Strong Ale using Wyeast of the same name.
I want a low terminal gravity for a drier finish, and have been told that
using oxygen to aerate my wort can help achieve this. As I don't have an
oxygen bottle, I am considering borrowing the bottle from an
oxygen/acetelyne welding set. Does anyone know if this is "safe" to do
with regards to impurities in the oxygen/bottle/hoses?
Brew On!
David Whitwell
Half-Whit Brewing, Tacoma, Washington
"Because Half the Whit's Brew, and Half the Whit's Don't"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:43:14 -0400
From: Jean-Sebastien Morisset <jsmoriss@qc.bell.ca>
Subject: Looking for authentic Brett. yeast from Oak Barrel
I'm looking for a Brett. yeast isolated by Brian Nummer, of Head Start
Brewing Cultures, from an old Oak Barrel. Does anyone have this yeast in
their ranch, or know how I can contact Brian Nummer? A similar authentic
Brett. yeast would also be acceptable.
Thank you,
js.
- --
Jean-Sebastien Morisset <mailto:jsmoriss@qc.bell.ca>
Unix Administrator, Bell Sygma Telecom. Solutions
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:47:59 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Thought Experiment.,warm freezer,premature gelatinization
Brewsters:
Ian Wilson's home experiment to evaluate the difference in ion content in=
hot and cold water sources by measuring the specific gravity apparently
only made it out of his brain and never to the table for actual
application. Won't work. We are talking p.p.m.of ions here and the
smallest division on most normal hydrometers is in the p.p.t.
One thought is to try doing a conductivity type of test to evaluate the i=
on
content comparatively, even though accurate evaluation of the ion content=
this way is difficult with non-professional gear. Perhaps go to a water
evaluation lab with your samples. =
- -----------------------------------
Ben Oconnor wants to keep his brewing freezer in the garage and wonders h=
ow
to keep his beer from freezing there in the winter. Put a small heater(
100 watt lightbulb??) in it and let the temperature controller on the
freezer which you now use keep it at the appropriate temperature level.
- -----------------------------------
George Fix offers an increase in the refractive index as evidence that
barley starch gelatinizes at a much lower temperature nowadays than it us=
ed
to, by saying:
1. Liquefaction/beta-glucan rest at 38-42C - 30 mins. -
during this period there was a sharp increase in mash
SG as measured by a refractometer.
I suspect what you see here is just what you should be seeing - namely th=
e
high MW glucans are being solubilized by the glucanase and this is leadin=
g
to the increase in the refractive index of the wort as they dissolve and
this is not an indication of premature solubilization of the starch.
Barley starch gelatinization temperatures are derived from highly modifie=
d
British Pale malts way back in the early days of scientific brewing as fa=
r
as I know.
To complete the experiment two more results are necessary. Mash in at 40=
C
and 10 minute rise to 60C and a mash in at 60C both of which follow the
same upper temperature scheme as the original.
- -----------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com =
Voice e-mail OK =
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 08:38:40 -0400
From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay@nt.com>
Subject: MCAB announcement
Louis K Bonham writes :
" 8-10 major regional
homebrew competitions (selected on the basis of size, prestige,
and geographic distribution) will be selected shortly as MCAB
Qualifying Events"
Are any of these going to be in Canada?
-Alan
- --
Alan McKay
Nortel Enterprise Networks
Norstar / Companion / Monterey Operations
PC Support Prime
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 09:54:12 EDT
From: aehoward@juno.com (Andrew E Howard)
Subject: Re: Dry hopping in 2ndary, fermentation started again, IMBR?
It is possible that you beer hadn't actually finished fermenting and the
action of racking stirred it up enough to get the fermentation going
again. What is probably more likely (in my experience) is that the hop
pellets have provided nucleation points for some remaining dissolved CO2.
Thus, what looks like renewed fermentation could actually just be
already-present CO2 leaving the beer.
I could be wrong...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 11:05:55 EDT
From: Adam=Fisher%SDL%MSDBED@vines.msd.ray.com
Subject: Hop Table
Hello All,
A several month's ago someone posted a Hop Table that was spread
out across a few HBDs. I want to add this to a Web Page but can't remember
the name of the person who sent it. Since I want to give proper credit I was
looking for the person who sent it out. Can anyone help me?
Adam Fisher
*********************************************************
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep
like my Grandfather,
Not screaming like his passengers."
- ?????????
*********************************************************
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2515, 09/26/97
*************************************
-------
