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HOMEBREW Digest #2482
HOMEBREW Digest #2482 Tue 12 August 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
1997 Thunder Mountain Brew-Off ("Kirk Johnson")
Re: gas stoves, tape goo (John_E_Schnupp)
Oregon Brewers Festival (George De Piro)
Mills, extraction efficiency, Acid water ("David R. Burley")
Re: removing goo from kegs (Rick Raver)
Re: Extraction Efficiencies (Rob Kienle)
tips for tips (Mench5)
icebrewing vs. eisbock ("Bryan L. Gros")
malta ("Bryan L. Gros")
Twist off caps in competitions (Don Bacher)
Hydrometer Scale Conversions & Removing Goo (Steve)
CF Question and Survey FYI ("John Watts")
Cleaning keg popet valves and pressure relief valves (703)695-0552" <mcgregap@acq.osd.mil>
bubble size ("Bryan L. Gros")
Specific Gravity for Sugar and Other Stuff (Brian S Kuhl)
Mead Help Summary ("Shaun Funk")
Advice on Grant's Imperial Stout recipe (John Rezabek)
Beer Tasings/festivals/SUDS4.0 (Jeff L Foley)
See Ya! ("Rob Moline")
Beer in Canada (nkanous)
conversion time / batch sparging success story ("Keith Royster")
Hops varieties and Hop diseases (Christopher W Kafer)
Re: Cold Box (John_E_Schnupp)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 08:00:45 GMT
From: "Kirk Johnson" <johnsonk@fhu.disa.mil>
Subject: 1997 Thunder Mountain Brew-Off
1997 THUNDER MOUNTAIN BREW-OFF
The 1997 Thunder Mountain Brew-Off will take place on Saturday,
September 13, 1997. This is an AHA sanctioned homebrew competition
and includes all 1997 AHA categories of beer, mead and cider.
Just like any other homebrew competition, we need judges, stewards and
any other help that you can provide. Even if you have not judged
before your participation is encouraged and appreciated. If you would
like to help or need any other information about the contest, contact:
The Home Brewery
4641 S Hwy 92
Sierra Vista, AZ 85635
(520) 378-4290
paulgl@primenet.com
ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Every bottle must be 10 to 14 ounces in volume, brown or green glass,
and be free of raised-glass, inked or painted brand-name lettering and
paper labels. Raised "No Deposit" or bottle manufacturing codes are
acceptable. Obliterate any lettering or graphics on the cap with a
permanent black marker. Bottles with Grolsch-type swing tops are not
allowed.
Submit three (3) bottles for each entry. Entry fee is $4 per entry
(non-refundable) and must accompany each entry. Make checks payable to
TMBO (that's the Thunder Mountain Brew-Off). Entries must be RECEIVED
by The Home Brewery in Sierra Vista by 6:00 P.M. on September 5, 1997.
Each entry must be accompanied by an entry/recipe form that is filled
out in its entirety. The names of all brewers who helped in brewing
an entry must be listed on the entry/recipe form. Each bottle must
have a complete bottle identification form attached to it with a
rubber band. DO NOT SECURE THE FORM TO THE BOTTLE WITH GLUE OR TAPE.
Upon entering this competition entrants agree to allow (at no cost)
the publication of their recipe. Entrant will receive all due credit.
You are encouraged to enter as many categories as you like, but you
may not submit more than one entry per subcategory. It is entirely
your decision which category to enter. Entries will not be classified
or reclassified by organizers or judges.
This competition is open to all brewers, however your homebrew must
not have been brewed at any place that brews beverages for any
commercial purpose, whether for commercial research, production or any
other purpose, including brew-on-premises establishments.
ENTRY TURN-IN
All entries will be submitted to:
The Home Brewery
4641 S Hwy 92
Sierra Vista, AZ 85635
(520) 378-4290
Entries may be delivered in person or shipped via commercial carrier.
You are responsible for proper packaging of entries and payment of
shipping charges. C.O.D. packages will not be accepted. Entries must
be RECEIVED by The Home Brewery in Sierra Vista by 6:00 P.M. on
September 5, 1997. No entries will be returned whether received late
or otherwise. All entries become property of the Thunder Mountain
Brew-Off organizers.
Any entries not meeting the entry or turn-in requirements will be
disqualified. Disqualified entries may still be judged, but will be
ineligible for awards or prizes.
JUDGING
Entries will be judged utilizing the 1997 AHA Category Descriptions
and standard AHA 50 point score sheet. Each entry will be judged by at
least two judges and each judge will complete individual score sheets.
Final score for each entry will be determined by consensus. If judges
cannot agree on the scoring of an entry, it will be decided by the
competition organizer. An entry must receive a score of at least 25
points to be eligible for an award. Judges and the competition
organizer reserve the right not to award first, second or third place
in a category if entries are not of appropriate quality. All
decisions of the competition organizer are final.
Judging will start at 10:00 A.M. on September 13, 1997. The judging
site is closed to the public. It's location will be provided,
separately, to judges, stewards and competition staff. Lunch will be
provided.
AWARDS
1st, 2nd and 3rd Place ribbons will be awarded to qualifying entries
in each category.
The Best of Show winner will receive a $100 gift certificate from The
Home Brewery in Sierra Vista and the TMBO trophy.
Winners will be announced following the completion of the Best of Show
round on September 13, 1997.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:03:02 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp@amat.com
Subject: Re: gas stoves, tape goo
>This particular batch was made on an electric range (which I HATE!
>Why doesn't anyone put gas stoves in their homes anymore?!?)
I have a gas stove/oven in my house. The builder charged me an extra
$100 gas instead of electric, but he had the electricians wire for
electric too, so there's always an option. I worked my way thru
college in a restaurant and I won't cook with anything but gas.
>tape. Does anyone know of something that will help remove the
>residual goo from the packing tape (also the other crud and labels)?
Try using lighter fluid. Dampen a cloth or paper towel with it and
the goo will come right off. I would think that any petroleum product
could be used in this way without negative effect.
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 11:27:52 -0700
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Oregon Brewers Festival
Hi all,
Just back from a rather nice trip to the Pacific Northwest, where I
attended the Oregon Brewers Festival (amongst other activities). 72
different beers from 72 brewers. Oddly, a 6 ounce sample (I measured
it) was $1, while a full glass (12 oz) was $3. Why anyone would buy
the full glass I'll never know...
Anyhow, I thought I'd comment on the beers I tasted in the hopes of
sparking some more beer-related discussions (I've only read a couple of
the HBDs from the past two weeks and it would seem that it is now
rightly called the "Hysterical Botulism Debate.").
Let me start by saying that all of the following statements about the
beers I tried are simply MY OWN OPINION. My palate is not God's, nor
was I in tremendous tasting/evaluation condition after a few hours!
The first beer I tried was from Deschutes, one of my favorite Oregon
breweries (perhaps because they don't distribute in NY, so it's
special to have it). I was surprised that they were represented by a
Pilsner at the festival. I was very happy with the quality of it. In
fact, I thought it was one of the best beers there (of the ones I
tried). The aroma was hoppy, but with a light, sulphur and malt notes
that added complexity and depth. The flavor was an elegant balance of
hops and malt (toward the hop side). The bitterness was soft and
pleasant. The only flaw was that it could have used a bit more body.
A very nice beer.
Some of the other notables were: Tabernash Weizen (truly Germanic, as
expected. A bit too yeasty in taste, and one dimensional with banana,
but good); Sprecher Belgian Style Ale (OG 1.078, Aroma of banana,
alcohol, sweet malt and spice. Flavor was surprisingly light and
malty, with the banana and spice coming through nicely. The alcohol
was dangerously well-hidden); Anchor's Old Foghorn (a perennial
favorite). There were other good beers, but I'll stop here.
I must say that after a while I found myself becoming bored with the
beers in general. It seems that in the quest to replace bland, light
lagers, the area brewers have become monotonous on the hoppy end of the
spectrum! What ever happened to malt? Where is balance? I found this
to be true at many of the area bars and brewpubs, too. Pike Place
Brewery was particularly one-dimensional. If you only like hoppy
beers, you'll like what their doing.
I understand that hops are grown in the region. They are also grown
in Germany, England, Australia, etc. and yet there is more variation
amongst beers in those places.
This also leads to the issue of consumer misinformation. I do not
expect a Vienna to be hoppy, nor am I pleased by a hoppy Doppelbock
or Scotch ale. Another beer that upset me in this way was Hair of
the Dog's Tripel. A tasty enough beer, but far too heavy, sweet, and
dark to be called a Tripel. A Belgian strong, maybe (that style is
so broad anyway), but not a Tripel. It also lacked the spicy-yeast
character of the best true Tripels. It is not a matter of stifling a
brewer's creativity, it is a matter of giving consumers what they
expect.
Could it be that it is more difficult to create rich, malty beers
with the equipment and malts used by many small breweries? Is this
why hops are favored, or could it be that the customers of the region
simply demand hoppy products?
The majority of the beers I tried during my trip were cleanly made,
which was good, and bartenders were quick to offer tastes of beers
gratis. Overall, a very nice trip.
I hope to see the brewers in the North West (and this country) become
more stylistically diverse as the industry develops. I also hope
that someday the North East can boast as many high quality breweries
as the North West!
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:05:42 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Mills, extraction efficiency, Acid water
Brewsters:
Rick Creighton asks about malt mills. I never used either one you have
tried, but I would strongly recommend the adjustable mill. As I have
detailed here in the HBD in the past it is possible to get an excellent
crush if you simulate the big boys' multiroll mills ( there Is a reason
they do that ya know) by milling twice or three times. I mill most often=
at 0.080 in. nip ( gap) and then at 0.065 in. ( My MARGA mill is continuo=
us
adjustable). This gives a wonderful crush that is faster than a single pa=
ss
at the smaller nip and with lots of whole husks and all of the grains
broken and free from the husks to get a good efficiency and an excellent
sparge. Also if you mill other things like rye you will need a smaller
gap. Go adjustable.
- ----------------------------------------------
Rick C also details his brewing techniques and I agree that you should se=
e
about 1.05 with 6.5# of pale malt and the crystal. Don't expect the black=
malt or the roast barley to contribute much to the OG.
Also, as an aside cool your beer in your boiler BEFORE you pour it throug=
h
the air. If you have two kettles,as I do, you can choose my solution whi=
ch
is a counter current cooler or build two cooling coils which fit into you=
r
boilers with a "Y" to pass water through both simultaneously.Otherwise, H=
SA
city.
- ----------------------------------------------
Fred Pauly asks what to do about his pH 5 water. First, that seems awful=
ly
low for tap water, unless you have a well which is very acid from mine
runoff or whatever. If you boil it, does it come to nearer 7? If so then =
at
least some of this is CO2 and I would just boil it before I use it ( you
probably will boil most of it anyway if you use infusion mashing) If you
have a really acid well, then it likely has lots of iron and other metals=
=2E
If so, I suggest some form of treatment like a Reverse Osmosis at your
sink for both your brewing and your health, as too high iron content is =
as
bad for you as it is for your beer. RO treatment costs about $200 and
produces about 10 gallons (or less, depending on head pressure) per day. =
It is very easy to install, if you have room under your sink or have it
someplace else. I keep 10 gallons in gallon plastic bottles which I refi=
ll
before a brewday.
- -----------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com =
Voice e-mail OK =
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 13:08:33 -0400
From: Rick Raver <jed@cyberia.com>
Subject: Re: removing goo from kegs
At 08:21 AM 8/7/97, Curt Albert wrote:
[snip]
>Does anyone know of something that will help remove the
>residual goo from the packing tape (also the other crud and labels)?
[snip]
The best stuff I've found is called (coincidentally???) "Goo Gone". It's a
citrus-based product that comes in a little squeeze bottle. It leaves an
oily film, which can be removed with soap and water. Goo Gone will take
any stickiness off just about anything I've tried it on. No affiliation,
blah, blah, blah...
BTW, you buy the stuff just about anywhere. I've seen it at Lowe's,
Wal-Mart, and even the grocery store.
Rick
- --
Rick Raver, Physicist mailto:jed@cyberia.com
York Cancer Center, PA http://www.cyberia.com/pages/jed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:04:23 -0500
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle@interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: Extraction Efficiencies
Rick Creighton asks about low extraction efficiencies...
> When my mash was ready (by the clock) I scooped a few ladles of grain into
> the Igloo-Tun (to be sure that the Phalse bottom was segure and weighted down)
> and then carefully poured th rest of the mash into the Igloo. I put 2 gallons
> of 170F water in teh "top" tank (which is uninsulated plastic) and began
> trickling water throught my "Phils" sparging arm.
>
My first concern with your technique is the temperature your grain is at
when you make the transfer. My second, third, fourth and fifth concerns
are the temperature your grain is at during all subsequent points.
IMHO I believe that the extraction *deficiencies* many of us see are
directly related to our sparging techniques. For 5 years, I too mashed
on the stovetop, transferred the mash to a bucket, and sparged using
Phil's setup. My efficiencies were *always* around 5 pts off projection
and *consistently* about 70% overall. I am certain the problem was due
to temperature loss in transferring the grain and an inability to make
up for that loss with 170 degree sparge water.
My proof for this assumption is the fact that, at the beginning of this
year, I switched to a dedicated 3-vessel system in which the grain is
*not* moved to another vessel for sparging and heat may continue to be
applied to it (as well as to the sparge water itself) throughout the
sparge procedure. Using this system, I've managed to keep the grain bed
consistently at 165 to 170 degrees throughout the process - and my
extraction efficiencies now run from 92 to 98%! I have made about 8
batches with this system and not one has dropped below 92% efficiency.
My only problem has been making sure I project my gravities high enough
so that I don't *over* shoot them.
Everything else about how I use this system is similar to the old
stovetop method. My water is still being filtered the same way, my
grains are still being crushed at the HB store (spent too much on the
system, can't afford the mill right now). Hence, the only reason why my
efficiencies have soared must be that I can now more effectively control
the consistency of my temperatures during mashout and sparging.
Using the old system (stovetop, transfer to new bucket), I was never
able to keep the grainbed hot enough. By the time the grain was
transferred, it dropped to 150 or less. To make matters worse, the
sparge water came out of the Phil's sparge arm around 10 degrees lower
than it was in the bucket, so I had to heat the sparge water itself to
around 180 or so just to get a 170 runoff, which was not nearly enough
to raise the temperature of the grainbed to where it belonged.
So if you're not ready to procur or build a system that eliminates
moving the grain and maximizes your ability to maintain proper sparge
temperatures, you're going to have to stick with trial and error to find
the right combination of techniques to use to keep that grainbed above
165 (but not too much above, of course). My suggestion is to throw a lot
of *conventional* wisdom out the window because most of it is intended
for more professional systems where sparging with 167 degree water into
a grainbed stabilized at 165 or something like that is an achievable
practice. Hence (for example), instead of mashing out at 165, mashout at
175 and *then* transfer to the sparge bucket. Don't worry about
extracting tanins because you're not sparging yet, you're just mashing
out (just as you wouldn't worry about extracting tanins during a
decoction rise; the question is immaterial at the time). Then measure
the temp of the grainbed and see if it's near 165. If it is, use sparge
water that is heated to at least 180, not 170, or whatever temperature
is necessary for it to still be at 165-170 by the time it runs through
the hose and out through Phil's sparging arm and onto your grain. If it
isn't, then go to whatever mashout temp you need to make sure the grain
is still in the mid 160s after it's been moved from pot to bucket.
I agree that squeezing every grain for what it's worth is not the point.
Hitting your projected target OG is. But the only way to do so reliably
is to create a consistent system that allows reproducability between
batches. Whatever it takes to do that is the right way for you.
- --
Cheers4beers,
Rob Kienle
Chicago, IL
rkienle@interaccess.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:51:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mench5@aol.com
Subject: tips for tips
oh great collective
time to come out of lurkdom again for a request for info
i would also like to offer some ideas that work well in my homebrewery
i am more of a gadgeteer than technoid and hope for symbiosis
i am an all grainer and use ro water- i know my water building skills are in
need of some work. i need a simple formula for making ro good for pale ales.
calcium chloride i suspect is the start but i don't know how much to use. i
have played with gypsum, salt and epsom salts. salt i have found makes my
beer too sweet. my last beer was a brown ale using 3/4tsp gyp and 1/8tsp
epsom salts per 5g. i bottled it last night and am not happy with the flavor
(almost licorice) although it was a new recipe and malts so the water may
not be the source of my problem.
as you can see i am stabbing in the dark and could use a clue.
now, the tips i am so proud of.
i have made a "tree" using a 6' wooden step ladder - a 1' 1x12 screwed to
the top holds my hot liquor tank, and a 3' 1x12 screwed to the 4' rungs of
the ladder for my mash tun. this setup works very well for me.
a T placed in the sprayer hose on my sink with a hose and out fitting
attached is a great way for rinsing and filling kegs- upside down the keg is
rinsed quite well with the water shooting through the down tube- an
alternative to this is an out fitting on a hose with a hose fitting to be
attached to your spigot.
i am a rinseaholic and have stuffed a small socket in the end of a hose. it
shoots a stream about 30'. i then invert a carboy (using a carboy dryer) and
put about 18" of the hose in and turn on the water.( remember water wiggles
) this very effectively rinses the thick bleach solution out of my carboys. i
am paranoid of chloryphenols if you can't tell. i was always afraid of the
socket coming out and breaking a carboy, this happened once and was not shot
out as i imagined -no breakage occured.
the lid from those small brinkmann smokers fits perfectly over a cut keg
kettle- i have drilled it and installed a copper coil -immersion chiller-
that is a one peice unit now.
i have been brewing since '81 and kegging since '81 1/2. the desire to
compete forced me to start bottling last year. for bottling i pour my priming
solution into a clean, purged 5g keg , rack the beer , put a 12" piece of
racking cane in my cobrahead spigot for a downtube and bottle away using co2
pressure to push the beer. i normally fill a 3g keg first and bottle the
rest.
i have an extra 10g igloo cooler (aka mashtun) that i put a 3g keg and a
small co2 tank in. i then fitted the draft line to the factory spigot and
voila, the ultimate traveling party unit. the first time i took it to a club
meeting and poured a beer from the factory spigot, i recieved many kudos.
well i should probably shut up now (i could keep going) i hope i have
mentioned something that will be an addition to your brewery.
and if i did -i could use some help with my water!
btw i am the brewer that posted about the parallels between mushroom
cultivation and brewing , and thanks for all the nice e-mails about this.
whew
tom moench
"another true story ruined by an eyewitness" fred eckhardt '97
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:31:57 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros@bigfoot.com>
Subject: icebrewing vs. eisbock
V.R.Quante@t-online.de (Volker R. Quante) wrote:
>I read the thread about icebeer and eisbock legality with great
>interest, but there was something surprising: Don't you make any
>difference between icebeer and eisbock in the U.S. as far as the
>legality is concerned??? Especially Ian Wilson did not. But I think, we
>here in Germany see a huge difference.
>
Of course there's a difference ! :-)
Filtering out a tiny bit of water and proteins is a legitimate practice
which allows marketing people to sell more beer.
Concentrating alcohol is a bad thing which will only lead to people getting
drunk and, god forbid, driving. This is illegal.
At least I think that's how the politicians look at it.
- Bryan
gros@bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:25:37 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros@bigfoot.com>
Subject: malta
Ken Schwartz <KennyEddy@aol.com> wrote:
>As Venezuela's own Lorenzo Barquin thoroughly reported in HBD2341, malta is
>basically unfermented and carbonated wort.
>According to Barquin's report, malta is a 14P (approx 1.056) wort composed of
>80% pale malt, 15% caramel malt, and 5% chocolate malt. I suppose the
>chocolate is what "mellomalt" is, since this stuff is black as an imperial
>stout (could be coloring too). I measured Hatuey's gravity at 1.065, not far
>off Barquin's specification.
>
>How did it taste? Pretty good, actually. It was very lightly hopped,
though ...
Sounds interesting. What we all want to know, at least those people
who can find this stuff, is can it be used as yeast starters? Maybe watered
down a little?
Convenient starters maybe, but a bit expensive I guess...
- Bryan
gros@bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 97 15:59:00 -0700
From: Don Bacher <dbacher@firestone-textiles.com>
Subject: Twist off caps in competitions
Hi all.
Question to all beer judges....
What is the problem with using twist off caps in competitions?
I entered 3 beers in the NHC97 and 5 out of 7 judges made
negative comments on the score sheets.
Private mail to: dbacher@firestone-textiles.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 15:24:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve <JOHNSONS@UANSV5.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Subject: Hydrometer Scale Conversions & Removing Goo
Troy Hojel asks about converting values between Balling Scale and Specific
Gravity Scales on hydrometers in HBD #2480:
Charlie P. on p.46 of The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing talks about these
2 scales and how they are related. The Balling Scale is directly proportional
to the specific gravity scale. In other words, "The numbers that represent
this measurement and expressed in degrees Plato [i.e., from Balling Scale] are
equal to one-fourth the value of the last three numbers that indicate specific
gravity." Example: SG of 1.040 = 10 degrees Plato, or
1/4 of 40 = 10
For anyone who may be algebra challenged, to go the other direction from Plato
to Specific Gravity, just multiply the degrees Plato by 4 to get the SG!
Also in HBD #2480, Curt Abert asks about what to use to get goo off of his
shipment of kegs. Well, I have found that a strong solution of sodium
carbonate (often sold in laundry section of grocery stores as "washing soda"
by a common detergent producer (I won't mention any brand names for fear of
sounding like a commercial) works good for all sorts of clean-up around the
brewery. It is also the main ingredient in many of the packages of cleaners
found in homebrewing supply stores. Anyway, I use it to clean out the insides
of my carboys after racking into a secondary fermenter or bottling bucket,
and usually add about 1/4 cup per gallon for heavy duty crud removal. Rinses
well, too. Works good for cutting through grease, and I recommend wearing
rubber gloves just to keep it from working on your skin from longer exposures.
Finally, I also use it to remove bottle labels in more dilute concentrations,
and have used it to get the duct tape crud off of some stuff with 1/4 to 1/2
cup per gallon and a bit of elbow grease. Again, use some rubber gloves and
some sort of plastic scrubby pad, and I think you'll have some nice shiney
kegs when you're done!
Steve Johnson,
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:45:05 -0500
From: "John Watts" <watts@top.net>
Subject: CF Question and Survey FYI
A question that arose during a discussion about building a CF chiller. Rather
than have the copper tubing run thru a hose, why not just set the coil into a
bucket of water? Or, if the space is available, freeze the water first.
Cleaning out the tubing would still be an issue, but construction would be much
simplier. Has this been tried?
Since the question was raised (very legimately), I wanted to reassure anyone
who participates in my homebrewer survey (www.top.net/watts/brew97.htm) that
they will not wind up on some spam listing. My personal feeling are that
spammers are why God made stakes, rope and fire ant nests! Also, I have
checked and there is no danger of botulism from the survey.
TIA
John Watts
watts@top.net
www.top.net/watts
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:38:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Art McGregor (703)695-0552" <mcgregap@acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Cleaning keg popet valves and pressure relief valves
Hi Everyone,
I've been kegging for about a year now, and have a few questions about cleaning
popet valves and pressure relief valves. How often should they be cleaned ...
every 5th, 10th batch?
To clean a "pin lock" popet valves, I use a nail punch and knock the valve out
of the body:
push nail
punch here
V V
V Popet Valve
|-====-| ====
| || | ||
| || | ||
| || | <---- ||
/ || \ ||
__| / \ |__ / \
--| / \ |-- / \
|__________|
V
pushes out
here
Now my question on popet valves is how do you properly seat the valve back into
the body without putting into far? I have determined that a small socket ~5/64
inch (?) fits nicely. The opening of the small end of the socket fits over the
rivet on the popet valve legs. The valve body has some concentric ring/ledges
in it that the valve legs press against for a compression fit as shown below.
How do you know when the valve is seated? If you press to far the spring gets
compressed too much (and if you keep pressing I guess you could bend the popet
valve shaft), and if you don't push it in far enough, the popet valve could get
pushed into the keg when the valve connector is attached (CO2 or beer tap
line).
Press in from
this direction
VvV
V "pin lock" valve
________________ upside-down
| |
==|_ _|==
==| |_ \ / _| |== \ /
| |_ \**/ _| | \**/ <=== Rivet
| |<||>| | <||>
\ |<||>| / <||>
\ |<||>| / <||> <=== Spring
\ |<||>| / <||>
| |<||>| | <||>
| |<||>| | <||>
|__|====|__| ==== popet valve
My other questions is whether the pressure relief valve on the underside of the
lid (contacts the beer) needs to be removed for cleaning. It looks like there
could be a good chance for something to start growing around the cracks where
the relief valve and lid housing meet. How do you remove and reinstall the
pressure relief valve? Do you unscrew it? The valve looks like it would take a
square socket maybe 3/16 inch (?). Is it easy to remove and reinstall? Any
special tricks? How do you know if it is reinstalled properly?
TIA
Hoppy Brewing :^)
Art McGregor
day: mcgregap@acq.osd.mil
night: apmcgregor@nmaa.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:33:21 -0700
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros@bigfoot.com>
Subject: bubble size
Racso Lesiam IV <dhcous@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
<description of experiment snipped>... The keg that
>wasn't allowed to naturally carbonate was forced carbonated at 30 psi
>for 1.5 days and 35 F. Through subjective tastings, both kegs appeared
>to have the same level of carbonation (concentration of dissolved gas).
>However, the keg that was naturally carbonated has finer, smaller
>bubbles, while the keg that was forced carbonated had larger, cruder
>bubbles by comparison. ... Similar
>results are well known, documented, and completely accepted in the
>sparkeling wine/Champagne industry. Bulk or Charmot method Champagne
>(Totts, Cooks, etc.) which is forced carbonated, has large, crude
>bubbles. Higher quality, naturally carbonated Champagne (Method
>Champagnoir, [spelling?]: bottle conditioned), has small, refined
>bubbles.
How does the difference in carbonation hold up over time?
The difference with either beer or champagne is that, with one method,
you dissolve the gas as quick as possible. Maybe over time the
bubbles will get smaller and smaller.
The wineries here in N. California will definately give you this
story as to why they use the "old-fashioned" method for making
their sparkling wines.
- Bryan
gros@bigfoot.com
Oakland, CA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 97 15:48:00 PDT
From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl@ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: Specific Gravity for Sugar and Other Stuff
Hello to all,
For estimation purposes, does anyone know the yield (specific gravity
per pound per gallon of water) for sugar & honey.
Also, how about the specific gravity of crushed grapes or any other
fruits? I know the fruits can vary a lot depending on ripeness but a
good baseline is what I am looking for.
TIA,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:39:23 -0700
From: "Shaun Funk" <brewfunk@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Mead Help Summary
Thanks to all for the responses to my request for mead help.
Here is a summary of the responses:
I Said:
<<I have already checked out some web-based references for
<<mead brewing, but would also appreciate anyone pointing
<<me in the direction of any and all that they feel are useful and
<<informative.
Several of you pointed me to the Mead Lover's Digest, a forum similar to
HBD, related to mead making. This digest only comes out a couple
times a week, due to the lower volumes of posts compared to HBD.
Here are subscription instructions:
Email: mead-request@talisman.com
In body of message: "Subscribe" email address. Also put your name in
body.
Other internet mead resources can be found at the following URL's:
The Mead Lover's Page at: http://www.atd.ucar.edu/homes/cook/mead/mead.html
Mead FAQ at: http://realbeer.com/brewery/library/meadfaq.html
The Bee's Lees at: http://realbeer.com/brewery/library/beeslees.html
Most recommended staying away from publications, stating that many of them
were antiquated and/or incorrect. The most recommended source was Charlie
P's TNCJoHB.
I had three specific questions:
<<1. Acid Nutrient -- Why?
Several of you were confused by this. I can see why. What was meant was
acid blend. Acid blend is a blend of 3 acids (malic, tartaric and citric)
used
for balancing the sweetness of the mead. Because I was planning
on making a melomel ( mead with fruit), most said that acid blend
wasn't necessary as the fruit would contribute the desired acid.
<<2. Do I need a yeast starter? If so and I make it with honey, is it
going
to
<< take longer to get going than my malt starters?
Just as in beer brewing, those who used liquid mead yeast suggested a
starter,
those who used dry yeast said don't bother. Honey does not contain much
in the way of yeast nutrients. Those who used honey in their starters
suggested adding yeast nutrient to the starter. A couple of you
recommended
using DME for the starter, stating that the influence of the malt on the
flavor
of the mead would be negligible, and would provide a much better
starter medium.
<<3. Yeast nutrient? Does this make fermentation complete or just faster?
<<Do I need it?
Fermentation, as many of you know, depends on yeast nutrition and oxygen .
The
malt
in wort is a great source of nutrition for yeast. Honey, the primary
ingredient of mead
is not. In order to get active, and relatively fast fermentation yeast
nutrition is of
utmost importance. Well nourished yeast will produce both faster and more
complete
fermentation. Once again since I wanted to make a melomel, I was advised
that
the
fruit would provide yeast nutrients. In the event that you were making a
classic mead, yeast
nutrient is an absolute necessity. There are two basic types of yeast
nutrients, chemical
and yeast extract. Most warned about using chemical nutrients (diammonium
phosphate)
due to off/chemical flavors that these can contributed if overused. Yeast
extract nutrients
are yeast cells that are killed, centrofuged, sterilized, and dried. Yeast
extract nutrients
are reported to be harder to find, but less risky.
So here is what I did:
I purchased 15 lbs. of raw wildfower honey, in this case mostly clover and
blackberry, from
a local bee keeper for $1.25 lb ( good price, I'm told ). I boiled 3
gallons
of water. Removed
the pot from the heat and stirred in 13 lbs. of honey until dissolved. I
then
added 3 lbs. frozen
raspberries and 4 lbs. of fresh frozen diced peaches. This brought the
temp
down to
120F. I turned heat back on and raised the heat back up to 150F, where I
pasteurized the
must ( must is to wine/mead as wort is to beer) for 30 minutes while the
temperature
slowly rose to 160F. I cooled the must with an immersion chiller, to
around
95F. Dumped
the whole mess into my carboy. Rehydrated a pack of Red Star dry champagne
yeast
in 1/4 cup boiled water at 95F. Aerated the must in the carboy by the
brute
force
method, and pitched the yeast after the must had cooled to about 85F.
It is now fermenting along happily at about 75F with about 30 bubbles per
minute.
Any thoughts or comments on my recipe/method are greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the waste of bandwidth for you hard-core brewers. I will be
posting
future mead
questions to the Mead Lovers Digest.
Shaun Funk
Clemmons, NC
shaun.funk@slkp.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 17:40:57 -0400
From: John Rezabek <rezabeks@alpha.wcoil.com>
Subject: Advice on Grant's Imperial Stout recipe
Steve Claussen seeks advice on Grant's Imperial Stout clone. How about
Bert's? Have you visited http://www.grants.com/beer/imper/imper.htm?
Bert tells so much here, I wonder if he wouldn't tell even more if you
asked him nicely. There's a form to query Bert himself (supposedly)
elsewhere on his web site.
John Rezabek
rezabeks@alpha.wcoil.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 19:18:16 EDT
From: hmbrewer@juno.com (Jeff L Foley)
Subject: Beer Tasings/festivals/SUDS4.0
I have a few questions for the brewing collective. First I will be
traveling to the Central Texas(Austin, Killeen) area, off and on for the
rest of the year. I was wondering if there were any beer tastings or
festivals happening.
The second question I just recently got a copy of SUDS for Windows 4.0
and cannot seem to be able to print labels, can anyone help with this
one?
Jeff Foley
Thunder Mountain Brewery (One can wish can't they).
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 97 23:43:04 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer@kansas.net>
Subject: See Ya!
The Jethro Gump Report
See Ya!-
As a newbie, I would like to know if there are any homebrew clubs in Ames,
Iowa? Are there any breweries ? See Ya!
Jethro
"The More I Know About General Managers (and Head Chefs), The More I
Realize I Need To Know More About Lawyers!"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:59:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: nkanous@tir.com (nkanous)
Subject: Beer in Canada
Greetings,
My wife has the opportuntity to travel to Canada next week. Unfortunately,
I can't go and she won't have any time to visit specific brewpubs or breweries.
Anyhow, she can bring a case of beer home for me. She will be traveling
from approximately Port Huron / Sarnia, through to an area Northeast (I think)
of Toronto. Any suggestions for some good beer she can bring back that should
be "relatively" easy to obtain? Thanks.
nathan in Frankenmuth, MI
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:42:41 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith@ays.net>
Subject: conversion time / batch sparging success story
Since I'm relatively new to all-grain brewing (about a dozen
batches), I have never really bothered to check for conversion until
recently. At first I didn't want to get too complicated (Just Do
It! [tm]), so I just let it mash for a full hour or so and assumed it
was all done. However, today I was mashing over 20# of grain for a
10 gallon batch of pale ale and decided to test the mash very early
in the process. After about only 15 minutes of recirculation in my
RIMS the wort became crystal clear so I grabbed a sample in a white
bowl and put a drop of iodine on the other side of the bowl letting
the two run together. It did not change color indicating that
conversion is complete.
So my question is, can I really quit mashing after just 15 minutes?
instead of my typical 45 min? I've heard claims that RIMS increases
conversion speeds because the mixing increases the reaction rate
between the enzymes, but I figured this was more theoretical than
real. Or did I do the test wrong? I used tincture of iodine that I
found in the local pharmacy.
- ----------------------
Also, during today's batch, I tried batch sparging for the first
time. At first I blew off this idea, but had to try it after my brew
days became excessively lengthy and tiring. I have to admit, I love
it. Within 20 minutes I had my boil kettle full with 11 gallons of
wort (the pump from the RIMS sure helps speed this up!). I was a
little worried that I might loose some efficiency, so what I did was
batch sparge the first 8+ gallons and then I fly sparged that last
couple to rinse the grains better (in theory). After entering in the
recipie and gravity reading into Brewer's Workshop (software) it
calculated that my extraction efficiency was not a point less than my
previous batches (69%). And I easily shaved 2 hours off of my brew
day for an 11 gallon sparge!
Thanks to all who convinced me to try this!
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina
"An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer,
marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!"
mailto:keith@ays.net
http://www.ays.net -@your.service web design & hosting
http://www.ays.net/brewmasters -Carolina BrewMasters club page
http://www.ays.net/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery)
http://www.ays.net/movingbrews -pumps and accessories for advanced homebrewers
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 02:36:47 -0500
From: Christopher W Kafer <ckafer@iastate.edu>
Subject: Hops varieties and Hop diseases
>Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:17:39 -0700
>From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
>Subject: The Hop Research Department of Wye College
>
>Before any readers prematurely dismiss the claims of Colin Green as
>being those of a raving lunatic... <snip>
>
>So before dismissing these claims out of hand, just ask yourself, "Do I
>know as much about hop breeding as Colin Green would?" If the answer is
>yes, you're probably in the wrong job.
>
>
Well said. I am amazed at the hostile attitude and anecdotal evidence
given to "refute" Colin's claims which seem to be based on good peer
reviewed science. I am wondering if any other methods have been used to
differentiate varieties/cultivars such as RFLP or RAPD markers etc.
Anybody know? My literature search didn't bring up much. Hmmmm... maybe
we could get a grant from somewhere...
Also...
>Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 09:12:15
>From: Jay Reeves <jay@or.com>
>Subject: Re: yellowing hop leaves
>
<snip>
>I mentioned the deal about adding magnesium-sulfate and he said
>that if the yellowing was due to a chemical imbalance in the
>soil, the entire plant would be affected, not just the lower,
>older leaves.
>
I hesitate to argue with a professional hop grower, but I'm not sure this
is necessarily true. It depends on what the deficiency is, if I remember
correctly. Some metals/chemicals are mobile in the plant whereas others
are not. Sorry but I cant remember which are which! The symptoms are
opposite from each other though ie mobile element deficiency is seen in
older leaves (young leaves are healthy/green) whereas non-mobile element
deficiency is seen in young leaves (while old leaves stay green and healthy).
I do suspect your grower is correct in that it is not a pathogen but a
physiology problem.
Anyway, back to lurking.
#############################################################################
Chris Kafer http://www.public.iastate.edu/~ippm
2232 Molec. Bio. Bldg http://www.public.iastate.edu/~ckafer
Iowa State Univ. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thorn
PGP key available
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 03:50:45 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp@amat.com
Subject: Re: Cold Box
Here's another idea for a cold box. When I first started
kegging I didn't have a fridge. My solution was to use a
10 gal Gott cooler. A keg (3 or 5 gal) will fit nicely and
there will be enough room to fill it with ice/water. Not
much temp control, but then again I couldn't say that you'd
get a lot of temp control with and ice filled cold box.
Worked great and the ice would last about 3 days (I use
3 gal kegs and was able to keep the lid on the cooler, YMMV).
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2482, 08/12/97
*************************************
-------
