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HOMEBREW Digest #2438
HOMEBREW Digest #2438 Wed 11 June 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
"Nut Brown" Ale ? ("RTALBOT")
Flaked Barley/Extract ("David R. Burley")
rootbeer questions/ honey/ software ("Rich Byrnes")
Re: Archives ("Karl F. Lutzen")
Hop Teas (eric fouch)
Hop growing in low lattitudes. ("Graham Wheeler")
San Antonio Beers?? (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
Sources for Gott coolers (Steven Lichtenberg)
Refrigerator question (George De Piro)
CO2 supersaturation? ("Dave Draper")
Belgian water profiles now available ("Dave Draper")
RE: Filtered beer taste / Really long mashing (George De Piro)
Hop rhizomes and a missed opportunity (David Johnson)
Alcohol and the Brain: Recent Findings ("Adam Rich")
RIMS RFC ("Fritz, Kent")
Re: tartness (korz)
Practical aspects of microbrewing - workshop/ CO2 toxicity (hugh)
Where can I find Weissen glassware (Jim Wallace)
Aromatic versus Special B/pressed yeast/lagering (korz)
Coopers Sparkling Ale/gallons/thin Pilsner/HBD protocols/pre-boil HSA (korz)
Valley Mill Summary (Rob Kienle)
Grow your own.... ("Stephen Jordan")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 07:19:45 est
From: "RTALBOT" <rtalbot@casdemail.casde.com>
Subject: "Nut Brown" Ale ?
All,
Newbie here. Ready to brew my 5th batch, so far so good. Can anybody
help me with an extract recipe for a "Nut Brown"? All inputs
appreciated !
Thanks !
Bob T
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:03:30 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Flaked Barley/Extract
Brewsters:
Matt ( wishing to brew a stout for his wife) gets offered this
"improvement" in a suggested stout recipe: =
>It will work fine just to steep the flaked barley and roasted barley at
150 F
>for 30 min. I would up the flaked barley to 1 # though, also, it will
>taste more like Guinness if you use Wyeast 1084 (Irish ale yeast). I ma=
de
>essentially this same receipe and it turned out great !!
Several comments on the use of extracts in combo with adjuncts, recently,=
remind me that many extract users do not fully appreciate that there are
different kinds of extracts available. Diastatic and non-diastatic.
EDME and the like which are diastatic malt extracts form a good base for
your brews. This means they can reduce some *gelatinized* starch to
maltose. If the extract container doesn't say diastatic it isn't and can=
't
reduce starch. Use of things like flaked barley, cooked adjuncts, etc. =
will only produce a starchy, cloudy beer at best ( perhaps hidden by the
stout's color) if you use non-diastatic malt extracts.
In this stout recipe, the main function of the barley is to increase the
heading properties by providing albumin ( water soluble protein) and some=
carbohydrate. 8 - 10 ounces is probably all right for most uses. Don't
spoil the stout by adding chocolate malt as many brew-pubs do. I suspec=
t
the EDME "light" version (which is darker than the pale) is the correct
base or you could use 8 ounces of dark crystal with the pale base in
addition to the roast barley ( which gives taste and color) to the stout.=
Don't overdo it with the caramel flavors. I haven't made extract brews f=
or
many years, but during my two year stint in Britain, nearly three decades=
ago, I did a lot of extract brewing with EDME and found it to be of
consistent high quality. I hope they have maintained that quality.
I recently made a John Bull Stout for a brewing class I teach and in my
opinion it is loaded with molasses and other stuff based on the taste and=
its fermentation performance. The 1084 Irish Ale yeast never really
fermented vigorously, even though it went in as a full size, active
starter. (I have had excellent luck with this yeast in all-grain stouts o=
f
my own - but guess it is a bottom fermenter used for bottling). I can on=
ly
assume that the nitrogen content was too low to support yeast growth, as
would be the case if this product contained a high percentage of sugar. I=
assume it was non-diastatic, since I don't recall reading that on the
container.
I don't know if John Bull LME is diastatic or not, since I have never see=
n
a can of this product.
My suggestion. Stick with 100% malt extracts as your base (approx 80%)
which are diastatic and use the milled, steeped ( at 155 F) adjuncts
procedure until you move on to all grain brews. You will make much better=
beer and you know what is in your brew, unlike many of these "ready made"=
extract blends of malt extract, coloring agents and sugar.
- --------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com =
Voice e-mail OK =
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:06:50 EDT
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com>
Subject: rootbeer questions/ honey/ software
Greetings Beerlings and lurkers alike...
1) Just brewed and kegged my first batch of rootbeer, YUM! Took the
standard brown/yellow box of flavoring with 2oz of saspirilla, 2 lbs
of sugar, 2.5lbs honey, 1 tbls vanilla and kegged it up (steeped and
strained the saspirilla first) Has anyone experimented with different
brands of rootbeer extracts? Any recommendations?
Kegged it and threw 30lbs of CO2 on it on Saturday, getting a wee bit
fizzy as of last night, should carbonate nicely soon. Do rootbeer
keggers use a 8-10' hose to reduce the blast form a highly carbonated
keg?
*********************************************************************
2) Another kegging question, has anyone experimented with adding honey
directly to the dispensing keg for flavor/body? I'm not talking about
priming sugars, would still use CO2 for priming.
*********************************************************************
3) Have used Brewers Workshop for a couple years now and love it. I
had a couple e-mail conversations with Tom Nelson about some suggestions,
I beefed up the databases with tons of grains & yeasts, and had some
more suggestions, but he appeared to dissappear. Does anyone have a
clue where he or TKO software is? How bout an e-mail address, thanks!
Love the "new" HBD Pat/Karl & others, keep up the good work!
(Pat, good luck finding a decent supplier near your summer home. Come
home soon buddy, we miss you!)
Regards,_Rich Byrnes: President/Founder
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com (_)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:31:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org>
Subject: Re: Archives
Ih HBD 2436 Rene' wrote:
> I just wanted to remind all HBD users that there is an Archive where you
> can search for old threads that potentialy deal with the question you
> have in mind. If you have internet access you can go to
> http://alpha.rollanet.org and find it under HBD.
And also points out that users can go here and search before posting.
This is all correct, however that the HTML version of the HBD and its
search engine only cover from 1992 to present (haven't had time to finish
the work started), so you are not searching the ENTIRE data repository.
The more pressing issue, though, is that Monday night (June 9, 1997) I
finished moving/converting the files to the hbd.org host. Truely ALL
aspects of the HBD now are under one roof. The ftp archives, the digest
software, the HBD Web info pages, and now the HTML-ized HBD themselves,
plus search engine are now all on the same host.
The link for the HTML-ized HBD is http://hbd.org/hbd/ (we haven't added
to the front page yet).
==================================================================
Karl Lutzen lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
System Administrator
The Brewery http://alpha.rollanet.org/
HBD, HBD Janitor, and all around Mad Man.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:37:35 -0500 (EST)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc@mcimail.com>
Subject: Hop Teas
Date: Tuesday, 10 June 1997 8:31am ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE3@STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch@STC001
Subject: Hop Teas
In-Reply-To: The letter of Tuesday, 10 June 1997 4:53am ET
HBD-
Paul Haaf asks about hop teas. I have tried a few methods that worked out
quite well:
For a single cup, I put one large (about 1/2 inch long) pellet (Cascades)
in the cup and nuke it to boiling. Sweeten with a tsp. sugar and either drink
it off the dregs, or decant to another cup.
Another method I've used is to use the "spent" hops used for dry-hopping.
After fishing out the dry-hopping bag, I boiled it in two quarts of water for
ten minutes. Then, I diluted it up to one gallon and sweetened with 1/2 cup
corn sugar. It tastes lousy cold, but I kept it in the 'fridge, and nuked
cups for hot tea.
I also tried this with some ground coriander and curaco used to dry-spice
a Belgian Ale, diluting it to a half gallon. I liked this one better than
the hop tea.
Of course, YMMV, depending on the acid content of hops used and personal
taste.
I get accused around my house of eating and drinking anything that's slower
than I am.
Funny thing is, the more I eat, the fewer items there are on my menu...
Eric Fouch
Efouch@steelcase.com
Bent Dick Yactobrewery
Kentwood, MI
RED WINGS RULE]] McCarty is a skating GOD] Did you see him school Niinima
and Hextall on the game (Cup) winning goal? Almost better than the L.L. boob
shot....almost.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:05:43 +0100
From: "Graham Wheeler" <Graham.Wheeler@btinternet.com>
Subject: Hop growing in low lattitudes.
AL.K. questions whether a short distance of about 200 miles would be enough
to make a difference to the same variety of hop grown in say, East Kent and
Worcestershire. Perhaps I was pushing my luck a bit there, but,
nevertheless, the same variety of hop grown in our (England's) two major
hop growing regions can have different characteristics, and I was merely
using daylength as a possible explanation. In fact, soil composition and
climate are not much different between the two regions either (but
husbandry may be). Nevertheless, from what I have read about the
photoperiodic response of hops, I would not be at all surprised to learn
that 20 minutes is enough to make a difference.
However, Tim's problem is not the quality of his hops, but getting some in
the first place. My money is still on daylength and the seasonal variations
therein. There is a magical line of about 35 degrees north, below which
hops do not grow naturally. Tim is below this magical line; all other
correspondents that are successfully growing hops are, so far, above this
line. Tom Pope is just above the line and he can successfully grow only
some varieties of hop. Neve, in his book, mentions hop growing in Kashmir
(actually at 35 deg north), and he says that they get two flushes of
flowers. Flowering begins before the longest day, stops when the critical
daylength for the plant is exceeded, and flowering resumes after the
longest day when daylength drops below critical daylength. I don't know how
to do the calculations, but I would bet that at 35 degrees N, the
difference in daylength, say, 3 weeks before longest day, and 3 weeks after
it, is only a matter of minutes.
Australian experience gives more evidence. A number of early attempts at
growing hops in New South Wales (34 deg S) failed, and it wasn't until
someone tried growing hops in Tasmania (41 deg S.) that the first hops were
grown in the southern hemisphere. They now grow hops in Victoria (37 deg
S), but still seem to be limited to Pride of Ringwood. The Australians have
an additional problem in that the hop is really a northern hemisphere
plant, and the temperature/daylength profiles are probably all wrong for
it.
Tom Pope's mention of cooling the soil may have been a method of bringing
some plants out of dormancy. The hop plant, for instance, needs at least
six weeks below 40F to come fully out of dormancy (even the seeds). I don't
know what winters in Texas are like, but if Tim is successful at growing
hops, he may then have a problem with dormancy (an important part of the
hop's life-cycle). The hops will not go into dormancy if the daylength
isn't short enough to trigger it, and will not come out of dormancy again
if the winter isn't cold enough to trigger that.
Graham Wheeler
High Wycombe
England
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:16:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@LILLY.COM>
Subject: San Antonio Beers??
If you could help me, I'd like to hear any recommendations
for or against some of the brewpubs and microbreweries listed in
the various web sites. I'll be there June 21st-26th, and
I'll need good beer! The Frio? The Laboratory? Others?
Others out there attending the N.O.S.?
Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-B Brewery, v. Ltd.
Email Bradley_David_A@Lilly.Com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:20:22 -0400
From: Steven Lichtenberg <slichten@mnsinc.com>
Subject: Sources for Gott coolers
good morning all. Any of you looking for Gott coolers, I found a source for
them pretty cheap. Price Club/Costco had them (as of last night at the local
one here) for 19.99 (five gallon). They had both orange and white ones (not
that there is a difference but some people think color matters). They also had
58 quart Coleman coolers for 18.99 and 70 quart ones for 38.99. The 58 quart
is a perfect size for 1/2 barrel brewers like myself. Maybe not quite as
flexible as a third keg but for the price it is hard to turn down,
**** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- ****
O| | -------------- Steven Lichtenberg ---------------- | |O
\__/ ------------ slichten@mnsinc.com ------------- \__/
----------- Programmer at Large ------------
---------- Lichtenberg Consulting ----------
----------- Gaithersburg, MD -------------
---------------------------------------------
ENJOY LIFE -- THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:53:11 -0700
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Refrigerator question
Hi all!
A friend of mine remodeled her kitchen and gave me the old fridge
(standard kitchen upright, freezer on top). When it left her house,
it was working. It was driven by truck 0.5 miles to my house, where I
tried to gently put it in my basement (but since I was working alone,
it wasn't all that gentle an experience).
I plugged it in, all excited about my new toy, only to be disappointed
by the lack of any mechanical sounds coming from the unit! I did a
check for loose wires, but found none. I know that it is getting
power because the light works. Yes, I turned the thermostat to the
coldest setting, so it is not simply an on/off problem.
Is this something that happens commonly when moving old fridges? Is
there an easy fix? Is it probably something obvious? Should I call a
repair guy? HELP!
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:10:05 -6
From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper@utdallas.edu>
Subject: CO2 supersaturation?
Dear Friends,
We've seen several posts lately discussing the possibility that
fermenting beer might become supersaturated with CO2. I find this
impossible to believe. Just about all our beers are in fermenters
that have airlocks on them, right? CO2 evolved inside the fermenter
is allowed to escape through the airlock, right? So how on Earth
could the beer become supersaturated? Fermentation does not proceed
so rapidly that CO2 evolved has no place to go but into the liquid--
it bubbles right up through the beer and out of the airlock. The
beer could become supersaturated if the CO2 were kept in the system,
for example in a sealed keg; but if there is an airlock this will not
happen. No supersaturation = no excess CO2 to be toxic.
Am I missing something here?
Cheers, Dave in Dallas
- ---
*****************************************************************************
Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083
ddraper@utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper
Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html
Why am I typing when I could be brewing? ---Gary Bell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:37:41 -6
From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper@utdallas.edu>
Subject: Belgian water profiles now available
Dear Friends,
Several days ago I received email from Jacques Bertens, who is a
Dutch-speaking brewer living in Belgium (I think!!). Jacques
attended a course in professional beer sampling given by the Brewing Research
Department of the university of Leuven (Belgium), and as part of the
lesson on water, obtained a list of water profiles for ten Belgian
brewing cities and towns. In his email to me, Jacques very kindly
sent me these profiles to add to my list on my web pages. These are
now in place, and interested readers should have a look (Beer page
URL below, follow your nose to the section on water). Anyone out
there who has links to this on their own page(s) should also check it
out-- the format is the same but you may wish to modify the link's
description somewhat.
In the meantime, here is the new information, for you
instant-gratification and non-webbed types out there. I hope this
stuff comes through with formatting intact...
Belgian towns: Ca++ CO3-- Cl- Mg++ Na+ SO4--
Antwerp 90 76 57 11 37 84
Poperinge 8 528 206 2 380 124
Eeklo 138 255 65 28 115 8
Luik 98 134 142 14 110 14
Brugge 132 326 38 13 20 99
Gent 114 301 38 17 18 84
Willebroek/Rumst 68 143 60 8 33 70
Mechelen 116 330 36 14 16 62
Beerse 41 91 26 8 16 62
Brussels region 100 250 41 11 18 70
Here's some info on the breweries located in these towns:
Antwerp De Koninck
Popering St. Sixtus, Van Eecke; Belgian hopgrowing region
Eeklo Bios (western Belgium)
Luik (Eastern Belgium)
Willebroek/Rumst Moortgat, makers of Duvel; Palm
Mechelen Het Anker, makers of Gouden Carolus
Beerse Westmalle
All others are from western, northwestern, or central Belgium.
Note the large variations in water composition over this
comparatively small region. Surely this is one part of the ways that
Belgian beers are so distinctive.
I hope you will all join me in thanking Jacques for this excellent
contribution to online beer knowledge. Brewers of Belgian styles
rejoice!
Cheers,
Dave in Dallas
- ---
*****************************************************************************
Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083
ddraper@utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper
Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html
...we are usually at the mercy of gravity. ---A.J. deLange
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:48:39 -0700
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: RE: Filtered beer taste / Really long mashing
Hi all,
Ian Smith asks about filtering beer to achieve a cleaner, more
commercial taste. Depending on what is "unclean" tasting about your
beers, filtering may or may not help, and there is always a way to
achieve the same effect without filtration.
If your beers taste yeasty, filtration can help by removing suspended
yeast. If the yeast has autolyzed, the flavor will remain. In fact,
I can't think of any other off-flavors that would be removed by
filtration. Brewers of clean-tasting beers don't filter out bad
flavors; they avoid them in the first place by tightly controlling
parameters that affect flavor (yeast quality, pitching and
fermentation temperatures, wort aeration, etc.).
What is it about your beers that is off? More detail might provide
the collective with enough info to help you solve your problem without
resorting to the expense and added process of filtration.
-----------------------------
Someone whose name was unclear (they didn't sign the post, I think, or
I just missed it) asked about the consequences of letting the mash sit
for days. In a word: SOUR. Even at refrigerator temps, the mash will
sour.
I once brewed a rye beer over several days, storing the unboiled wort
in the fridge for 3 days. It soured, but I finished the batch anyway.
It did become a great beer, actually! The sourness wasn't
overwhelming, and really added depth to the palate.
It may be salvageable, but your mileage may vary radically from mine!
Good luck!
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:24:24 -0700
From: David Johnson <dmjalj@inwave.com>
Subject: Hop rhizomes and a missed opportunity
Ken Schwartz has missed an opportunity that doesn't come along every day.
Here in Wisconsin, any soil left unattended for even a few hours is
almost immediately covered with weeds. This leeds me to suspect that
there may be something wrong with the El Paso soil. I think there is some
Mutagenic agent that supresses weeds and caused the hop rhizomes to
mutate into this apparent bullfrog. Instead of tossing the mutated hop
rhizome over the wall, it should have gone into his wort. This could have
made a really "hoppy" ale or a "Bad Frog" clone.(pause for groans)
no self control or self respect
Dave Johnson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:37:02 -0400
From: "Adam Rich" <ar@crocus.medicine.rochester.edu>
Subject: Alcohol and the Brain: Recent Findings
HBD Readers:
Here is a short article posted by the NY Times on June 10, 1997.
Science Watch: Alcohol and the Brain
It is a known scientific fact -- or so the public has been led to believe
- -- that alcohol kills brain cells. And presumably, those who would suffer
this damage the most would be drinkers in their 70s and 80s who had been at
it for decades.
But a new Australian study of 209 elderly men, 178 of whom used alcohol,
revealed not a single sign of intellectual impairment or brain atrophy that
could be related to the amount of alcohol they regularly consumed.
The findings are described in the current issue of The British Medical
Journal by a sociologist at the Australian National University at Canberra
and his collaborators in Sydney.
The men, all of whom had fought in World War II with the Australian army,
represented a broad range of alcohol intake: from none to an amount that
would warrant the label of alcoholism.
In fact, 40 percent of the men consumed alcohol in amounts deemed hazardous
or downright harmful, a much higher percentage than has been found among
the Australian population as a whole.
Nine years after their usual alcohol intake was recorded in 1982, the men
submitted to 18 neuropsychological tests that measured a range of
intellectual functions, including basic intelligence, memory and the
ability to retain verbal and visual information.
The participants also underwent a computerized X-ray scan of their brains.
The researchers found no evidence to link heavy alcohol intake with any
form of cognitive decline or with atrophy of the brain regions involved in
cognitive functions.
Adam's New Address:
Lab: Department of Physiology and Biophysics
Mayo Foundation
200 First St. SW
Rochester, MN 55905
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:46:43 -0700
From: "Fritz, Kent" <Kent.Fritz@Aspect.com>
Subject: RIMS RFC
Dear Fellow Brewheads:
In my quest to upgrade my brewing system from 5 to 15+ gallons, I just
picked up a big pot at the flea market. New condition, approximately
27.5 gallon capacity, 4435 (if I recall correctly, 44 something)
stainless, no seams, with a lid that seals with a locking band (possible
fermenter?) for $100. Was this a good deal or did I get ripped?
On to my proposed RIMS. Most of these ideas were stolen by reading all
the wonderful RIMS web pages, but I don't recall seeing anyone use a
chest style cooler for the mash tun.
I intend to use a 70 qt chest cooler with a slotted copper pipe
manifold. On the output, I will put a T with a clear tube sticking
straight up to the top of the chest and open to the air (explanation in
next paragraph.) After the T, a pump (model TBD) will push the wort
through a copper coil immersed in the hot water tank and back to some
sort of distribution manifold at the top of the chest. Temperature
steps, mashout, etc., will be accomplished by controlling the
temperature of the sparge water in the HWT.
I will control the ouput of the pump with a ball valve so that the level
of wort in the clear tube stays level. This assures that the wort is
free-flowing through the manifold, not being sucked. I saw this
somewhere, but I can't remember where!
Questions:
1. Is the geometry of a chest cooler suitable for RIMS?
2. Is the T-Thingy a good idea?
3. Suggestions? Comments?
Private e-mail OK. I'll post a summary if I receive some important
feedback. Thanks.
Kent Fritz
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:24:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: Re: tartness
Chas writes:
>HONEY and FRUIT
>Several (well informed) opinions on fruit beer seemed to warn against using
>honey in a fruit style beer. From my experience, I would disagree with them.
>First, honey does tend to dry a beer out a bit, but if you stick to orange
>blossom or wildflower honey, I find there is a residual sweetness and "honey
>flavor" that is an excellent complement to a fruit. Also, the drying effect
>of the honey supports a stronger fruit flavor in the beer vis a vis malt,
>which would tend to mask the fruit.
I must disagree most strongly. Recall that we are making fruit *beer*,
not wine. If you don't want malt flavour in there, then remove the malt
and make fruit wine. I feel that one of the most misunderstood styles
is fruit beers. Far too many are made by brewers who are trying to
imitate terrible commercial beers that taste like seltzer with artificial
fruit flavour in them or carbonated cough syrup. Yuck!
Fruit beers should be balanced between beer and fruit flavours. There should
still be some beer character behind the fruit. I feel that suggesting one
lighten the malt flavour in a fruit beer is bad advice.
>For similar reasons, I advocate the use
>of flaked corn or rice in a fruit beer, as it will give a brilliant white
>long-lasting head to your fruity-colored beer. The visual effect of a
>strawberry colored or raspberry colored beer against a brilliant white head is
>most pleasing (OK, lets keep the comments clear here guys!).
I have not used flaked corn or rice, but judging from their relatively low
protein content, I believe that they would only reduce the head retention
and not improve it. Flaked barley, flaked oats, yes... these are high in
beta-glucans which can make laeutering a pain, but do make for long-lasting
foam stands. Do flaked corn and rice really aid in head retention? I'm
planning a few experiments with them in the next few months, but I'd like
some more comments on whether they really do or not...
Again, there's no doubt that corn and rice lighten the beer and reduce
malt character, so my previous comments about making the beverage taste
too much like fruit wine (regardless of what Miller's ads are trying
to sell us) apply similarly.
I hope this doesn't sound too mean... I wrote it rather in a hurry and
Chas certainly can prefer fruit beers with less malt character, no problem.
In general, however, I think it's a common misunderstanding. Those of
you in the Baltimore area are blessed with Brimstone Brewing Company,
makers (in my opinion) of the finest fruit beer. It's a wheat beer
(I believe) made with real blueberries and is the perfect blend of beer
and fruit flavour. Few commercial beers come even close (in my opinion).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:29:48 -0700
From: hugh@see.sig.net
Subject: Practical aspects of microbrewing - workshop/ CO2 toxicity
This is of more relevance to commercial brewers but as
I haven't seen this mentioned here, I refer you to
http://www.simhq.org/97workshops.html for info. on the
above mentioned workshop organized by the Society for Industrial
Microbiology (personal connection - member).
It's in Reno, Nevada on August 3rd. ($350 for non-members).
- --
re: CO2 'toxicity'
If this exists as described here and in Brew. Techniques, here are
some more thoughts.
It's possible that CO2 toxicity (or inhibition of growth) may be more
relevant at the homebrew scale than at larger scales, due to the
lower level of fluid movement at the 5-10 gal scale. Fluid motion in
large fermenters is significant and might be vigorous enough to keep
dissolved CO2 levels down. Perhaps that's why none of us can find
anything in our beer books about CO2 inhibition, it's not a problem for
the big boys.
OTOH, lager has been brewed under (CO2) pressure at industrial and
homebrew scales and I note further that dissolved CO2 levels are higher
at low lagering temperatures. Furthermore, bottle carbonation requires
the yeast to grow at relatively high pressures/CO2 levels. Probably
there's a strain dependent effect present.
OT3H, CO2 production during fermentation can produce a pH change
which could shock the yeast into growing slowly, especially
underpitched, unhappy yeast. Perhaps that's the effect we need to
avoid.
Hugh in Ft. Collins, CO.
- --
hugh at lamar dot colostate dot edu
*(Pls. send brew name suggestions for an amber ale *
* being brewed for a friend's post-pregnancy binge).*
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:05:49 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
Subject: Where can I find Weissen glassware
I am looking for a source of beer glassware. Especially Weissen and Belgian
style glasses.I am down to my last weihenstephan glass and have a new batch
in the fermenter.
___________________________________________
JIM WALLACE ... jwallace@crocker.com
I travel to the wild places of this planet
and would like to share what I see....
...http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace
___________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:08:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: Aromatic versus Special B/pressed yeast/lagering
Since the HBD is not overwhelmed with posts, I'll take this opportunity to
touch on a few subjects that I had held-off on posting (although I may
have written to the actual poster directly).
Charley writes:
>I have a recipe that calls for Belgian Aromatic. I went to buy some and the
>homebrew shop owner said that it's the same as Special-B and sold me some.
>
>Yesterday I talked with a guy that's got a Porter recipe that calls for
>Belgian Aromatic and he says that maybe next time he's going to use
>Special-B INSTEAD!
They are most certainly NOT the same thing. Aromatic is a dark Munich-type
malt and requires mashing (although it will convert itself, i.e. it
doesn't need other malts for enzymes). Special B is a sort of blend of
very dark crystal malts. I've seen some lots at 225 Lovibond! Usually,
it's around 120L or so. It does not have to be mashed. It lends a nice
raisiny flavour to your beer (can't make Chimay Grand Reserve without it!)
and in excess (no more than 1/2# in a pale to amber beer and no more than
1# in even a big, dark beer) will be sickeningly sweet. The really dark
lot also had a slight burnt flavour which got annoying when too much was
used.
>BTW - my recipe is for a marzen, does the Special-B make sense here? Its
>only 3/4 pound most of the rest is Vienna.
I would say no... 1/4# at the most and you'll get a rather fruity (raisiny)
Maerzen at that.
***
Alex writes:
>sometimes. But as homebrewers, we often like to brew a variety of styles
>with a variety of yeasts, and we haven't really solved the problem of
>storing large quantities of pitchable yeast for extended periods for use
>in future brews. In the spirit of George's post, I think this would be one
>of the most useful solutions we could devise.
>
>In my readings so far, the only place I have seen this issue addressed is
>in New Brewing Lager Beer, wherein Greg Noonan briefly describes a
>procedure on page 98 which apparently allows a mass of pitchable yeast to
>be stored in the freezer for several months in viable condition. I read
>this with some interest, but it is unclear to me whether this technique
>can feasibly be adapted to a homebrew environment, and exactly how it
>could be accomplished.
Noonan's technique of pressing most of the liquid out of a yeast slurry
and storing it in the freezer is problematic, at best. Firstly, unless
stored under glycerine (or I believe I've seen sucrose mentioned), much
(most?) of the yeast would burst during freezing. Secondly, I can't
imagine a sanitary way to squeeze most of the liquid from two liters
of yeast slurry (hmmm... what's the biggest cardiac syringe you can get?).
Finally, let's say you stored it in a half-filled Tupperware container.
It seems to me that the cold would draw a great deal of moisture out of
the slurry (until the liquid froze). Wouldn't this kill a lot of the
yeast?
What about storing the yeast under a solution of malto-dextrin in the fridge?
It seems to me that would keep for a month... no?
***
Tim writes:
>I believe this question was recently asked, but I missed any responses if
>they were posted to HBD. In the small batches involved in homebrewing (in
>my case, 5 gallons), can secondary fermentation just take place in the
>bottle? What is different about keeping the beer in a secondary fermenter
>versus lagering in a bottle, besides the addition of priming sugar?
>TIA for helping this newbie understand.
I do some lagering in the fermenter and some in the bottle. Usually, I'll
wait 2 months to bottle a lager, two or three weeks at 45-50F in a glass
primary and then the rest at 40F in a glass or stainless secondary. After
bottling, I let the bottles warm to cellar temperatures to carbonate, chill
one, taste it, and decide if it needs more lagering. If it has excessive
acetaldehyde, diacetyl, or sulphury aromas, I'll simply store them in the
cellar for a few more weeks.
I believe that the cold temperatures of lagering are more for precipitating
polyphenol-protein complexes (chill haze) and the cold temps only slow the
processes of getting rid of the unwanted compounds (acetaldehyde, diacetyl,
etc.). I'll keep the secondary very cold, but I simply store the bottles
(or "bottle lager") at cellar temperatures (55-60F). Comments?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:12:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: Coopers Sparkling Ale/gallons/thin Pilsner/HBD protocols/pre-boil HSA
Here are a couple more...
Dana writes:
I just *love* the [Coopers] Sparkling Ale - it is cloudy and has a neat
'bite/tang' to the flavor, almost reminiscent of the uniqueness of
the Weizen style. Can I assume (if this beer is normal and did
not get funky during shipping) that this is mostly due to the
yeast? Does anyone have any extract based recipes for a similar
ale?
I believe that the clovey character and cloudiness increases with age
and fresh Coopers is less phenolic. Yes, this is due to the yeast.
You need to use refined sugar to imitate Coopers Sparkling Ale... my
guess would be about 15%. Use the palest extract you can find (something
like Munton & Fison Extra Light Dried Malt Extract or very fresh Alexander's
Pale Extract), hop to (oh, I would guess) about 25 IBUs with Pride of
Ringwood, and for yeast, see below...
Is Cooper's dry yeast available at US homebrew stores the same
yeast? Can the yeast in the bottle be cultured and is it the
fermentation yeast or a different strain just used for bottle
conditioning?
Cooper's dry yeast is a different beast than what's in the bottle.
Yes, you can culture the yeast from the bottles. I've heard that
the bottling yeast is the same as the fermentation yeast.
***
Bruce writes:
>2. Do US brewers use a US gallon for a "5 gallon batch" or are they talking
>in Imperial gallons. Similarly, are Dave Millers gallons US or Imperial.
>Something I learned only recently is that an Imperial pint is 20 ounces.
Most of the HBD gallons are US. Posters from the UK and down under
usually use either liters or specifically say "Imperial Gallons."
A US gallon is 3.785 liters. Dave Miller's gallons are US.
>3. I tasted my most recent batch of Pils against three Czech varieties.
>Mine was hoppier, had a finer head, and was quite pale. The Czech beers were
>a nice dark gold, but were also a bit skunky -- even the ones in brown bottles.
>They also seemed to have more body. From what I've read about lack of body,
>it results from sparge water with too high Ph or temperature. Since I've only
>recently learned about Ph, I can only presume that my Ph was too high. But
>how can that reduce body? If I've got extra tannins, shouldn't there be too
>much body? How can addition lead to subtraction?
Tannins will add a kind of drying, puckering, astringency to the palate
of the beer and can make the beer "rough-tasting." This can interfere
with the perception of body. Lack of body can come from a number of
things:
* not enough malt (typically, Bohemian Pilsners will be 1.048-1.052OG),
* poor yield from malted barley (could be old, poorly crushed, etc.),
* infection (many nasties will eat the dextrins and proteins that give
beer body),
* too much refined sugar (this adds no protein and thus takes away from
body), and
* using low-temp (122F/50C) protein rests on low-protein malts.
Too hot a sparge temp or too high a pH will extract excessive tannins, but
they will not directly decrease body... they may interfere with the perception
of body, however.
>4. As a newcomer to the HBD, I wonder about the protocols. There are lots
>of questions asked with scarcely any replies. My earlier questions on yeast
>received lots of private answers with even more private mailings requesting
>the answers. Why don't answers go on the HBD? Is this because the questions
>are deemed too elementary to answer? The other lists I'm familiar with (BBQ,
>chile-heads) have a lot more answers.
I tend to post most of my answers unless the HBD gets bogged-down. Then, I'll
send the answers directly and post later (like now), when the HBD is less
overloaded. If you ask for direct email answers (heck, even if you don't
ask for them), you should summarise and post a followup.
***
Graham writes:
>Neil Kirk wrote re. HSA:
>>So the questions are: what about HSA when running off from the mash >tun?
> Does it cause oxidation? Does it matter? How do we avoid it?
>
>My understanding is that HSA is not a serious problem at run off
>temperatures. However, I too had considered it might be and decided to
>avoid the problem by attaching a long tube to the tap/spigot on the mash
>tun. This tube was long enough to reach the bottom of my boiler and after
>only a few seconds running off was below the level of wort now filling the
>boiler. No chance of HSA now, right? But it did cause another problem.
> After only a few minutes I notice that the rate of run off was slowing,
>and then it stopped altogether. I had never had problems with stuck
>sparges before. What had happened was that the syphon effect from the long
>tube had caused the run off rate to be much higher than usual and had
>resulted in the grain bed being well and truly packed (I needed a pick axe
>to loosen it!!!).
HSA can indeed be a serious problem at runnoff temps. According to what
Charlie Scandrett posted several months ago, it can be worse than HSA
post-boil. What you should have done was throttle the runoff with either
a valve or a hoseclamp so it does not run so fast.
>I've since abandoned this tactic and now trust that I don't get HSA. My
>beer generally tastes OK but, and I ask the question seriously, if I were
>getting some HSA, what would it taste like?
I feel that you are trying to solve one problem by trading it for another one.
A valve or hoseclamp is the way to solve both!
HSA will lead to staling. It appears (from a few informal experiments I've
done) to be more of a problem in amber beers than in pale or dark ones.
I speculate that the amber beers suffer more than pale ones because of the
higher melanoidin content and that in dark beers the dark grains tend to
cover-up the damage. If you have HSA in your system, your dryhopped beers
will lose their aroma after a few weeks. Your beer will also develop
cardboardy/papery/sherry-like aromas after a few weeks. You can see the
beer get noticeably darker when it's aerated hot.
The melanoidins are said to oxidise and then later give up that oxygen to
other compounds, like hop oils (there goes the hop aroma) or alcohols
(cardboardy/papery aromas from certain aldehydes). I faintly recall
someone suggesting that oxidation can increase diacetyl in the bottles,
but I have to check my books to be sure.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:34:34 -0500
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle@interaccess.com>
Subject: Valley Mill Summary
Thanks to everyone who responded to my query regarding the Valley Mill.
I thought I'd post a summary for those also planning such a purchase.
The responses were unanimously positive. Everyone reported high mashing
efficiences, good crushes without shredded husks, and ease of use. The
large hopper was consistently cited as a big plus. The only negative
mentioned was the use of click-stopped settings (non-infinite) for mill
adjustment, although no one considered this feature to really interfere
with the mill's practicality or usefulness (i.e., it works fine).
I have subsequently also completed a browse through the archives and
found additional information to further confirm what everyone else has
reported.
At about $70 less than the Malt Mill, and lacking any *quantitative*
evidence to imply that its performance is equally discounted, the Valley
Mill appears to be a great deal. Thanks again for all who contributed.
- --
Cheers4beers,
Rob Kienle
Chicago, IL
rkienle@interaccess.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:59:39 -0400
From: "Stephen Jordan" <komusubi@together.net>
Subject: Grow your own....
Greetings all,
I have been following the past few post about growing your own hops and
what more info!
I live in Vermont and would like to hear from fellow brewing Vermonters on
their hop growing experiences. Or like type climate brewers.
Thanks
Stephen
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2438, 06/11/97
*************************************
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