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HOMEBREW Digest #2433
HOMEBREW Digest #2433 Wed 04 June 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
RE: Strike water calcs and hop rhizomes (Luke.L.Morris)
Grain Information (Mike York)
Canning unfermented wort? (bmanbeck)
American Wheat Ale Recipe (Jeff Renner)
The Valley Mill (Rob Kienle)
Sparge Bubbles (KennyEddy)
Hop growing question (George De Piro)
Any ideas as to the cause of the stuck fermentation? (Brian S Kuhl)
Uncrushed Black Patent ("Lee Carpenter")
Homebrewed alcohol free beer (Hector Landaeta)
Re: chest freezer taps (erikvan)
Support lines for hop vines (Ian Smith)
top fermenting ? (Luke.L.Morris)
wheat beer (ensmingr)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 97 13:06:01 +0800
From: Luke.L.Morris@woodside.com.au
Subject: RE: Strike water calcs and hop rhizomes
Fellow brewers,
>From HBD 2431....
>From: wesc@mails.imed.com (Wes Clement)
>Subject: Strike water calculation figured out
>Thanks to Domenick Venezia, Dave Draper, Bruce Breedlove, Dudley Leaphart,
>Charely Burns comments on Strike Water I think I got it figured out.
>I'll reference the some of Kelly Jones response from the HBD archives
file 1207
>posting 19:
>Cpm= heat capacity of your malt, about 0.32
>Cpw= heat capacity of water, 1.0
>Mw = mass of water used
>Mm = mass of malt used
>Tw = temperature of strike water
>Tm = beginning temperature of malt (usually room temperature)
>Tf = final temperature of mixture (rest temp)
>Masses and temperatures can be in any units, as long as you are consistent.
<snip>
Some very useful formulae by Kelly Jones which I found on Dave Draper's
home page a while back (thanks to Dave and all other charitable souls
who give so freely of their time, web-page and advice for the greater
good of homebrewing). This has made my mashing much more of a "sit
back, relax..." experience. No more days of guessing the temperatures
and panicky adjustments when it didn't work....!
For those who intend to refer back to the original posting, there are
subsequently formulae for amount of boiling water to add to a mash to
increase temperature to the next rest. After calculating the new
"Cpmash", there is a formula for Mwater, being the amount of boiling
water which should be added to achieve the new temperature (Tf). This
is given as:
Mw= Cpmash * Mmash * (Tf - Tmash) / (Tw - Tf)
I found this gave me a "ridiculous" answer, and traced the problem as
follows: I was using the "engineering" units of Cp (4200 kJ/kg.K for
water and 1350 kJ/kg.K for malt) (well, I am an engineer....). Kelly
has used the "dimensionless" values of 1 and 0.32 for water and malt
respectively. So the Cpw of 1 has been omitted since it "cancels out".
The complete formula should read as follows:
Mw= Cpmash * Mmash * (Tf - Tmash) / ((Tw - Tf) * Cpw)
Hope this helps someone.
**********************************************************
Also from HBD 2431:
>From: Troy Hojel <hojel@flash.net>
>Subject: Wanted: hop rhizomes
>I may have missed the growing season, but I would like to try to grow
>some hops anyway. Does anyone know of any rhizomes (Goldings) for
>sale? The only source I could find on the net is sold out of most
>varieties.
<snip>
Troy,
When I buy hop cones I often find seeds in them. Although I haven't
yet grown them myself, I have a friend who has. Take a handful of your
favourite hop cones and sort through them carefully for the seeds,
(which you should find down in amongst the lupulin glands). The seeds
are round, and about 1/16" diameter. I am told that the larger and
darker seeds are most likely to germinate. Probably best to germinate
and then transplant since the success ratio is uncertain.
Sorry, I don't know if all seeds will be viable or if only some are
fertilised, or how to tell if they are OK. But I'm planning to try
growing this year myself (southern hemisphere summer).
Best to grow flavour/aroma hops, since you will not know the alpha-acid
% for bittering calculations.
I thought June was the best time to plant in northern hemisphere ?
Best of luck,
Luke Morris
Brewing in Perth, Western Australia.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:43:47 -0400
From: myork@asheboro.com (Mike York)
Subject: Grain Information
I have been homebrewing for about two years but have never done any
all-grain brewing.
I have some questions: What is meant by 2-row barley and 6-row barley? Can
you grow your own barley? I am a beef farmer and grow barley for my cows.
Can you buy grain wholesale? What is the tax structure on buying grain? Do
you pay an alcohol tax on grain bought from homebrew stores? For that
matter, do you pay an alcohol tax when you buy malt extracts?
Mike York
myork@asheboro.com
"Shagging Forever"
129 Vaughn York Rd.
Staley, NC 27355
910 824-8937
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:04:32 +0000
From: bmanbeck@isd.net
Subject: Canning unfermented wort?
I am interested in canning a mini batch (3 gals) of unfermented wort
for storage and then later, use as a yeast starter. I am trying to gather
information on how other HBDers have done this in the past. Any
procedural hints or other tips would be greatly appreciated. Private
emails are welcomed.
Brad Manbeck
bmanbeck@isd.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:09:11 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: American Wheat Ale Recipe
Brewers
HBD traffic is down a bit, so I thought I'd send this along, even though
it's a bit long. I wrote it for the Ann Arbor Brewers' Guild newsletter.
Kalamazoo Brewing Company is a great regional microbrewery, about ten years
old. Larry Bell's beers are often strong, idiosyncratic, and sometimes
funky. As he has expanded (around 20,000 bbls this year, I think), they
have become more consistent. Oberon is a great summer wheat, especially
when the diacetyl is under control.
Summer Wheat Ale Recipe
My son Matt's regular summer beer is Kalamazoo Oberon, formerly Solson, so
he asked me to brew him a keg for his 22nd birthday. I did and it turned
out great.
I knew that Oberon is a cloudy golden, has a gravity about 1.054, low but
perceptible hops bitterness with a bit of spiciness I guessed was from the
hops, is somewhat sweet, full bodied and malty, but with a balancing lemony
quality (from the wheat?). Sometimes it is heavy on diacetyl, which I find
tiresome, but the bottle I taste analyzed for this project had very little.
I considered reverse engineering it, but figured, what the heck, I'd call
the brewery and see what guidance they could give. Well, a friendly brewer
confirmed the OG, said they used just over 50% wheat malt, and that they
used "just a little" Belgian crystal and Munich for color and maltiness.
He guessed maybe a pound each for 5 gallons. I felt that was too much
crystal, so I used the equivalent of 1/2 pound crystal and 2/3 pound
Munich. A full pound of Munich would have been fine, but I think the
crystal is about right. He also said they used Hallertauer Hersbrucker for
bittering and Czech Saaz for finishing. I reduced the gravity to 1.048 for
both easier drinkability and less alcohol. It finished at 1.016, about
what I wanted, for 4.2% alcohol by volume. If I hadn't diluted the wort by
sparging the hops, it would have been original strength.
I brewed this on a Monday and was drinking it on the following Sunday,
although it took a few more days for carbonation. The cloudiness and
yeastiness are part of the style. I hope you'll try this for a quick
summer beer. I'll rack 5 gallons into a 1/6 barrel Sankey for Matt and
keep the rest.
Solstice Summer Wheat Ale
=46or *7.75* gallons Oberon clone in the 1/4 bbl. keg (really full) @ 1.048:
15 gal. well water boiled w/ 2 tsp. (10 g) CaCl2 and decanted. (City water p=
lus
1/2 tsp. gypsum per 5 gallons water will get the Ca++ level where you want
it without too much sulfate. CaCl2 would be better if you can get it.
Sulfate dryness is out of place here.)
* 7-1/4 lb. Durst wheat malt
* 5-1/2 lbs. Briess 6-row
* 3/4 lbs. DWC Caravienne (22L)
* 1 lb. Durst Munich
Double pass roller milled barley and wheat malt separately, then mixed dry.
Note for extract brewers: You could substitute a good quality wheat/barley
malt extract (~25% more by weight) for the first two malts and do a
"mini-mash" of the caravienne and Munich.
* Mashed in 12 qts. water to 140=B0F (skipped usual 100=B0F rest and/or
122=B0F protein rest) for 1/2 hr rest
* Boosted w/ 5 qts boiling water and burner to 158=B0F, rested 1/2 hr
* Boosted to mashout of 176=B0F
* Collected 9 gallons in 1 hr.
* 0.7 oz. Czech Saaz @ 3.5% first wort hopped (in the boiler at
beginning of lautering, steeps at 170=B0F for the hour during lautering (~5
IBU contribution when boiled 1 hour)
* 0.5 oz. Hallertauer Hersbrucker @ 2.6% (late FWH after 6 gallons
collected, 25 minutes, do this at the beginning)(2.7 IBU)
* 1.5 oz. Hall. Hersb. boiled 60 min. 8.1 IBU
* 0.7 oz. Saaz. boiled 15 min. 2.5 IBU
* 0.5 oz. Saaz at strike, steeped 7 minutes during settling before
immersion cooling.
Yielded about 7-1/4 gallons wort @ 1.054 into open fermenter, sparged hops
with about 3/4 gal. cooled water for 8 gallons wort @ 1.048 into fermenter.
Pitched sediment from 3-1/2 liter starter Kalamazoo yeast from Yeast
Culture Kit Co., or you could culture the yeast from a bottle of Oberon.
=46ermented at 65-70=B0F ambient, full kraeusen at 18 hours, skimmed crud 3 =
or
4 times on day two and three, top cropped yeast on day four and five,
kegged on day six, still slight foam production indicating some continuing
fermentation. Chilled and force carbonated. Tastes great.
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 09:47:11 -0500
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle@interaccess.com>
Subject: The Valley Mill
Does anyone out there have any experience with or recommendations
regarding The Valley Mill? Came across it on a web search and it looks
fairly interesting (large hopper design).
- --
Cheers4beers,
Rob Kienle
Chicago, IL
rkienle@interaccess.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:35:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: Sparge Bubbles
Fred Warner has bubbles in his mash-tun outlet. This could be caused by air
trapped under the false bottom by the grain (or by the false bottom itself if
the mesh is fine enough). Fred, next time add "foundation water" to the mash
tun to a level slightly above the false bottom, and be sure that any air is
expelled from below the false bottom, before adding the grain. This will
give you a chance to eliminate most of the air from the mash.
*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:34:56 -0700
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Hop growing question
Hi all,
This is my first year as a hop farmer, and I have a question:
Can hops be kept short and bushy by cutting off the growing tip
(technical botanical term)?
I accidentally did just that to my first Goldings vine. It now has
two new tips forming just under the break. It got me thinking, "Why
the hell let the things grow to be 15 feet tall? Keep them short and
bushy and trimming them back."
I'm sure there must be a reason to let them grow tall, though. Any
ideas?
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 97 09:43:00 PDT
From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl@ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: Any ideas as to the cause of the stuck fermentation?
I just finished a batch of Porter using Wyeast Swedish Porter ale yeast.
I started with an OG of 1.060. The FG was 1.030. I have never had a high
finished gravity. Usually I think they are too low (1.007).
Here is some info on my porter...
"Rogain Porter"
5 lb. Gambrinus 2-row pale malt
1/4 lb. Great Western wheat malt
3 lb. Gambrinus Honey malt
3 lb. Hugh Baird brown malt
1 lb. Hugh Baird 135deg. crystal
1 lb. Hugh Baird chocolate
2 oz. English Fuggle @ 120 min.
0.5 oz. English Fuggle @ 15 min.
1 oz. EK Golding @ 2 min.
Mash @ 154 degrees for 70 minutes.
Boil for 2 hours.
Pitch a twice stepped up starter of 1 liter.
Note: this yeast was three months past expiration. Took 3 days to get
any activity.
1.5 weeks in the primary and 2 weeks in the secondary.
Ferment at 66-68 degrees.
Smells great.
I took a chance and bottled this brew hoping that perhaps it was all
those (melinoidins??) from the 2 hour boil causing this high FG. Or
maybe it could be that the mash conversion was too short. My grain has
a lot of dark malts in relation to the pale malt. Could it result in to
little diastic power? These are all guesses, but I am beginning to think
that the yeast is at fault. The profile said it finished malty but this
is ridiculous! ;) My attenuation was 50% the profile said 69% - 73% is
normal. ????? and no solid answers. Any replies to the net or email is
definitely welcome.
CU
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:51:21 -0400
From: "Lee Carpenter" <leec@redrose.net>
Subject: Uncrushed Black Patent
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC701C.D65F5B60
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A few weeks ago I read a "tip" in one of the homebrewing periodicals that
said you could use uncrushed black patent for something. Now, I have a
pound of it and can't remember or find the tip. Any ideas? I thought it was
in Brew Your Own or Zymurgy. My wife is due to give birth any day and I
guess I'm not thinking to well.
Thanks.
Lee C. Carpenter
Meadow Creek Brewing
Landisville, PA
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline--it
helps if you have some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons,
but at the very least you need a beer."
-- Frank Zappa
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<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D3 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Bell MT"><b> A few weeks ago I read a =
"tip" in one of the homebrewing periodicals that said you =
could use uncrushed black patent for something. Now, I have a pound of =
it and can't remember or find the tip. Any ideas? I thought it was in =
<i>Brew Your Own </i>or <i>Zymurgy</i>. My wife is due to give birth any =
day and I guess I'm not thinking to well. <br><br>Thanks.<br>Lee C. =
Carpenter<br>Meadow Creek Brewing<br>Landisville, PA</p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><br><br>"You can't be a real =
country unless you have a beer and an airline--it<br>helps if you have =
some kind of football team, or some nuclear weapons,<br>but at the very =
least you need a beer."<br> =
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; -- Frank Zappa</p>
<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Bell MT"><i><br></p>
</font></font></font></body></html>
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC701C.D65F5B60--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:52:03 -0400
From: Hector Landaeta <acarrasc@reacciun.ve>
Subject: Homebrewed alcohol free beer
I have this buddy of mine that's an ex-alcoholic that won't touch anything
with alcohol in it, but has the fondest of memories about beer. His best
moments are when he gets to find these rare (for Venezuela at least), and
expensive German imports like Lowebrau that are alcohol free. Isn't there
any way a homebrewer can replicate the industrial brewers technique at
alcohol extraction in a homebrewed beer?
Thanks.
Hector Landaeta.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:25:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: erikvan@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: chest freezer taps
>Robert DeNeefe wrote in #2431
>
>I have a chest freezer that I plan on attaching a tap tower to for
>dispensing from kegs. Since I'm not really very handy when it comes to
>building things, I wanted to get any advice from anyone who had already
>done this. I'll need to drill four screw holes in the lid to attach the
>tower to, and I think I can manage this with a standard drill bit. I also
>plan on bracing the underside of the lid with some plywood since the lid is
>rather thin metal. Is this neccessary? Then I need a big hole to pass the
>hoses through. I plan on making it fairly large so the inside of my tower
>stays cool also. What have others used for making this hole? In general,
>if anyone who has already done this wants to share their experience with
>me, I'm very open to all suggestions.
>
>
I did the same thing to my chest freezer. Works great. I put two columns
with 2 faucets on each for a total of four faucets. Yes, you do want the
piece of plywood under the lid. It's rather thin, and everytime you pull on
the tap handle, you'd crease or bend the lid. I attached the plywood with
liquid nails, great stuff, and then used wood screws through the four holes
in each column. You'll definately want a metal drill bit, though, unless
you want new drill bits after you're done. I cut the large holes out with a
dremel tool. If you haven't bought your columns yet, you're in for a surprise.
Mighty expensive! But I don't regret having mine. Nothing beats having 4
beers on tap in your own house! Also, spare no expense on the thermostat.
A cheap one could fail at anytime, or not work as well, and who wants frozen
beer. Good luck on your kegerator!
Erik Vanthilt
erikvan@ix.netcom.com
The Virtual Brewery
Http://www.netcom.com/~erikvan/brewery.html
Recipes, hints, news, software and more...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:50:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Subject: Support lines for hop vines
What should I use to support 2nd year hop vines ? If I use string should
I use nylon ? what diameter should I use ? Has anyone used fishing line
or would this cut into the vines ?
Also, is it OK to have the vines growing straight up for 5 feet and then
at a 45 degree angle ?
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 08:14:18 +0800
From: Luke.L.Morris@woodside.com.au
Subject: top fermenting ?
Guys,
Looking back over
HOMEBREW Digest #2427 Tue 27 May 1997
(I just got back from a couple of weeks away),
Tim Dugan wrote:
From: "Tim M. Dugan" <tdugan@netins.net>
Subject: Replies to Yeast Reuse
In HBD #2423 I wrote:
> First question. I am fortunate enough to be able to brew on two
> consecutive weekends. I would like to reuse my yeast from last =
weekend,
<snip>
> Concerns: Since Ale yeast is top fermenting, will the yeast at the
> bottom of the primary be the "good yeast" or is the "good yeast" still
> suspended and only the weaker yeast is on the bottom?
<snip>
This top- and bottom-fermenting yeast thing is a bit confusing. I
thought that top-fermenting yeasts, when their activity subsided,
flocculated to the top of the wort. And bottom-fermenting yeasts,
correspondingly, flocculated to the bottom.
Top-fermenting ale yeasts would therefore probably need to be skimmed
from the top of the wort, right ? And bottom-fermenting yeasts, it
would be easier just to transfer the wort off the sediment (like we
generally do, right ?) (or drain the sediment if you have the right
sort of equipment).
Now I read recently somewhere that while traditionally ale yeasts were
top-fermenting, strains of bottom-fermenting ale yeast had been
isolated years ago and have now almost completely replaced the use of
top-fermenting ale yeast. Presumably because it's easier to handle,
especially in a commercial brewery. This would explain the confusing
terminology when all the yeasts seem to behave the same way.
(Actually, it's only confusing *because* all the yeasts seem to behave
the same way.)
Can anyone confirm that this is right ? It sure would clear up some
confusion if we could get this straight. And maybe we could eliminate
the terms top- and bottom-fermenting (with associated confusion).
And in a similar vein...
I also read that the terminology Saccaromyces Carlsbergensis (spelling
?) in reference to lager yeasts is obsolete - ie. that all brewing
yeasts are now re-classified as strains of Saccaromyces Cerevisiae
(spelling ?). More of a re-naming exercise rather than a realisation
that we've been wrong all along. While this doesn't impact our brewing
process, can anyone confirm this ? Is there a microbiologist out there ?
TIA for any answers,
Luke Morris,
Brewing in Perth, Western Australia.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 23:37:04 -0400
From: ensmingr@npac.syr.edu
Subject: wheat beer
Concerning George De Piro's recent post on wheat beer ...
In case you didn't know, "Ing." is short for Ingenieur, i.e.
"engineer". You see, Herr De Piro, the Germans are very big on titles.
I lived in southern Germany for a couple years and sampled many
different brands of wheat beers (Hefe Weizen). I ordered them from bars
and restaurants and bought them from stores. Every one was clear in the
glass, if poured carefully from the bottle. In contrast, Widmer Wheat
beer of Oregon, which some seem to think is like a real German Weizen,
is not true to style in appearance (it's too cloudy) and taste (not
enough clove character).
Most Germans pour their Wheat beer so that the yeast goes into the
glass. A popular way to pour it is to rapidly invert the bottle 180
degrees into the tall Wheat beer glass, and then slowly raise it up so
that the beer doesn't gush out. It is a method which I never perfected,
but a friend who was an expert demonstrated for me whenever she had the
chance.
So, real Hefe Weizen is clear if poured carefully. Of course, a
Kristall Weizen is also clear, but that's simply because there's no
yeast in the bottle.
Cheers!
Peter A. Ensminger
ensmingr@npac.syr.edu
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2433, 06/04/97
*************************************
-------
