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HOMEBREW Digest #2419
HOMEBREW Digest #2419 Thu 15 May 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
plate heat exchangers (Tom Logan)
botulinum toxin (Jeremy Bergsman)
Vitamin B ("Braam Greyling")
Thanks ("Braam Greyling")
Brewpubs - Menlo Park (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
Partial mash, first time jitters ("Moyer, Douglas E")
Carboy residue/deposits ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
Re: Zest of One Lemon (Bob Tisdale)
Homebrew Digest #2418 (May 14, 1997) -Reply (Skjalg Myklebust)
Malta (Bob Lang)
haafbrau1: Brewcaps, Inverted Fermenter (PAUL W HAAF JR)
IBUs again ("Dave Draper")
Yeast Infections ("BRIAN F. THUMM")
Re: What is bettter whole hop leaves or, pellets (Scott Abene)
re:Foamy Beer (Charles Burns)
Hop Growing Summary ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
Coffee Stout (Thomas Lowry)
Yeast culturing ("Aaron Herrick")
Upright Freezer (stencil)
Testers wanted (FivestarAE)
IBU formulas (korz)
Re: Upright Freezer (guym)
Lager Yeast (Mark Rodziewicz)
Bleach residue, freezer controller, Wyeast Munich (rbarnes)
Co2 soluability tables/curves (Ian Smith)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:26:24 -0500
From: tlogan@idir.net (Tom Logan)
Subject: plate heat exchangers
Lorenzo Barquin says:
>Some weeks ago I asked about ideas about a stainless steel plate heat
>exchanger. I was really looking for one that could be openned for easy
>cleaning, but it looks like that for the quantities of fluids we normally
>manage in homebrewing, no such unit exits(?). The only lead I had came
>from a reply to my request which indicated that someone had seen a unit
>made by Alfa Laval. Well, after about a month, I finally got their catalog
>for small plate heat exchanger. One major drawback, these units are brazed
>and cannot be openned for cleaning. Well, to make a long story short, they
>have two versions, one brazed with a copper foil (model CB14) and the other
>using nickel(model NB14). They are both made of stainless steel (AISI 316).
>Which one would be the best for cooling wort? How about cleaning and
>sanitizing?
I have seen a plate heat exchanger used in a local brew pub. The
application is a good one, however for the home brewer, they are "quite"
pricey. I have installed large plate heat exchangers for HVAC applications.
They work quite well and are very efficient at heat transfer.
I saw an ad in a brewing mag some time back and they were listed at
$1300+/-. I think this is somewhat overpriced, but I'm not sure where you
would have to go to get one cheaper if you weren't a contractor. As far as
cleaning, I think you would have to use a CIP system.
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 00:01:04 -0700
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: botulinum toxin
Please excuse the relatively beer-unrelated content:
A question was asked here a while back about whether botulinum infection
of wort would harm yeast. I work with botulinum toxins and I know that
their mechanism of action is that they cleave proteins involved in
neurotransmitter release. I also know that yeast have homologues of
these proteins. I didn't know if the homologues could be cleaved
however. I just finished up a little presentation I will be making
to my lab on Friday and found out the answer--botulinum toxins don't
affect yeast. If any of you feel in an especially geeky mood you
can check it out my "review", I put it on the web at:
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/bottox.html
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:03:17 +200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling@azona.co.za>
Subject: Vitamin B
Al Korzona writes:
>>
Also, another poster has said that B-vitamins increase alcohol
metabolism.
This too is incorrect. The tie-in between B-vitamins and alcohol is
that alcohol consumption leads to *losses* in B-vitamins. Whether
this is due to the diuretic effect of alcohol or some other process I
will not speculate. Yeast is a great source of several of the
B-vitamins and therefore drinking beer with yeast in it helps replace
some of the B-vitamins you lose due to the alcohol. I've read,
however, that in general, the net result is only a small increase in
B-vitamins in the body (i.e. you lose most of what you gain).
<<
As I understand it your body uses the Vitamin B to help break up the
alcohols. When your body has no Vit-B left it is more difficult for
it to break up alcohols, thus it can probably take longer. If you
keep on refilling your Vit-B by drinking homebrew you might
metabolise the alcohol faster than if you drink alcoholic beverages
with much less or no Vit-B.
I doubt if Vit-B in itself increase alcohol metabolism but a shortage
of Vit-B may DECREASE alcohol metabolism.
I am no medical doctor, I am just explaining it as I understand it.
Maybe I am wrong, maybe not.
Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer
Azona(Pty)Ltd
tel +27 12 6641910 fax +27 12 6641393
You can taste a good beer with one sip,
but it is better to make thoroughly sure.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:04:38 +200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling@azona.co.za>
Subject: Thanks
To all the people who responded to my coffee stout question,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
It will be my next brew.
Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer
Azona(Pty)Ltd
tel +27 12 6641910 fax +27 12 6641393
You can taste a good beer with one sip,
but it is better to make thoroughly sure.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:04:19 -0400
From: Greg.Moore@East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
Subject: Brewpubs - Menlo Park
Will be travelling to the Menlo Park area in Ca in a few weeks - any
one know of any outstanding brew pubs that I shouldn't miss in the area?
-=Greg
gmoore@wacko.east.sun.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 8:58:03 -0400
From: "Moyer, Douglas E" <moyer-de@salem.ge.com>
Subject: Partial mash, first time jitters
Dearest collective,
I am basically a novice, having made about 15 batches of extract +
steeped grain. Recently, I purchased an ingredient kit from HopTech for a
Nut Brown ale. I thoroughly enjoyed the results. (After it took them
several weeks to actually send me everything they said they would :-( ).
The recipe called for a partial mash for the Munich malt, the
instructions for which I will summarize:
- --> Bring 1.25 qts/lb to 170 deg F in a thick saucepan. Remove from heat,
add grains, and thoroughly stir. Cover and let sit for 30 minutes. Scoop
the "mashed" grains into a steeping bag, along with the other specialty
grains (Special B, crystal & chocolate malts). Put the grain bag into the
brew kettle (along with any wort from saucepan) and bring to 180 deg F.
Remove grain bag after dipping a few times to rinse the grains. <--
As I said above, I was able to follow these directions without any
difficulty, and made a very tasty beer (too much of which I gave away).
Now, I am going to make it again, this time with ingredients from my
local homebrew shop. Here are the questions:
1) Is the procedure above a reasonable method for the beginner? (No, I am
not going to purchase new equipment at this time--we are saving for our
new 750 sq. ft. deck and will not have cash for a three-tier RIMS!)
2) Would it make sense to include the "specialty" grains in the partial
mash?
Private email would probably make more sense for a response...
BTW, the suggestion in an earlier digest of using a s.s. trashcan with
the bottom cut out, used to retain the heat from the cajun cooker, worked
great! It took less time to bring ten gallons to a boil than it
previously had for five! (Also, less interference from the wind--more
consistent boil.)
Doug Moyer
Big Lick Brewing Collective
"Are you jealous of my Big Lick?"
Historical note: Big Lick was the original name of Roanoke, VA.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 06:07:55 PDT
From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig@wb.xerox.com>
Subject: Carboy residue/deposits
For Randy Ricchi and Randy Barnes in HBD 2418:
The glass in the carboy is likely not etched, it just has some white
mineral deposits on it - don't ask me why or how - I'm no chemist -
but I know how to clear it up.
Use some regular white vinegar and some water in the carboy and the
residue / deposits will go away. You don't need to fill the carboy,
just enough to swirl around - you can see where it cleans. Then a
blast of water to rinse and you can sanitize again (for a shorter
period of time!) LimeAway was also cited as a fix, but I haven't used
that myself.
The answer to the white residue/deposits in a carboy was the first
useful HBD tip I got when I started reading it and searching the
archives a couple of years ago. I'm glad to be able to pass along the
info, but a couple of keyword searches of the archives would yield the
same info . . .
Last brew of the season coming up on Saturday - hope my 100 gallon
stockpile is enough to make it through the summer! (Not to restart
the brewing season thread - I just lack the time during the summer to
brew - too much else going on, and the thought of hovering over 6
gallons of boiling wort on a hot summer afternoon pales in comparison
to the thought of sitting in the shade next to a keg of cold homebrew!!)
Stephen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:14:11 +0100
From: rtisdale@entomology.msstate.edu (Bob Tisdale)
Subject: Re: Zest of One Lemon
>> Peter Ellison Wrote:
>> Fellow Brewers,
>>
>> I have been homebrewing for about four months now and am about to
>> endeavor upon a lemon wheat beer. The recipe (from the Homebrewer's
>> Recipe Guide) calls for the *Zest* of 1 lemon. I have seen other fruit
>> recipes in this book calling for the Zest of a fruit. My question is,
>> what do they mean by the zest? Do I just use the juice of a lemon? Or,
>> do I use the juice and the pulp? I hope someone can shed some light on
>> this for me.
>
Peter,
There is actually a tool called a Zester! It is a 1/4 to 1/2 inch wide
fine grater on a handle. It will scrape just the outer layer of skin from
a citrus fruit.
Your lemon wheat beer sounds good.
Cheers,
Bob Tisdale
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:23:05 -0400
From: Skjalg Myklebust <MYKLEBSK@shu.edu>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #2418 (May 14, 1997) -Reply
unsub beer-l
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:51:55 -0400
From: Bob Lang <bob.lang@gtri.gatech.edu>
Subject: Malta
Many years ago, while growing up on the Miami, Fla area, there were drinks
called Malta India, Malta Goya, etc. They are a non-alcoholic drink made
from Malt. I now see these same drinks in 7oz bottles in the food stores
and my kids, as well as I, love it. Does anyone know how these are made
(recipe) and if its possible to make in the same methodology as reg. brews.
Thanks for any help.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:48:59 EDT
From: haafbrau1@juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR)
Subject: haafbrau1: Brewcaps, Inverted Fermenter
This is in reference to Kim Lux's plan to invert a glass carboy after
drilling a hole in the bottom of it. I'm no expert, but I love to tinker
with things. One thing that I've realized is the importance of
prototypes (cutting a few corners along the way to save time and $ to
make sure the concept as a whole works sufficiently before taking the
final plunge.). This may seem too easy, but why not use a plastic carboy
(water bottle) for your prototype? You might find it's advantages
surprising.
1) Plastic is much easier to cut or drill.
2) The cost should be cheaper than glass, in case you run into
problems. You may also be more apt to fiddle with more
'bells & whistles' in or on the carboy itself for ease
of operation.
3) Plastic is lighter, which will make your fine tuning easier and
less dangerous.
4) If the plastic slips and falls, cean-up is safer and easier. You
might even be
able to save your batch.
5) The plastic carboy should also be able to take the heat of hot
water.
I hope this helps in your venture. Best of luck. I've also considered
making one of those gizmos after seeing it in a HB supply store. A toast
to building building a better mouse (beer) trap!
Paul Haaf
haafbrau1@juno.com
- --------- End forwarded message ----------
- --------- End forwarded message ----------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:16:39 -6
From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper@utdallas.edu>
Subject: IBUs again
Dear Friends,
Pat Anderson noted rightly that only analyses of actual beers to
compare with the predicted IBU levels can verify or refute any
particular scheme; I could not agree more. I will point out that
when I say "it was under-bittered" I did in fact sit down and try
carefully to compare with commercial examples of known IBUs to reduce
the subjectivity as best I could. Not perfect, of course, but it was
all I could do at the time.
Phil Hofstrand takes me to task for not examining Glenn's curve more
carefully before posting. Guilty as charged; I was running on
memory, always a bad idea in my case, and in this case it was memory
of email I traded with Glenn a couple of years ago while the
research was still underway. I retract my use of the term
"S-shaped" but stand by my claim that the non-linearity of the data
suggests a closer approach to The Truth than any linear model of
alpha acid utilization would.
Cheers,
Dave in Dallas
- ---
*****************************************************************************
Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083
ddraper@utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper
Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html
The one with the biggest starter wins. ---Dan McConnell
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:35:36 -0400
From: "BRIAN F. THUMM" <THUMMBF@GWSMTP.NU.COM>
Subject: Yeast Infections
Rae Christopher J wrote about beer and yeast infections. Although my response
is not related to the beer making aspect of it, I thought I would just throw in
my $0.02 for clarification.
Rae is correct that yogurt can help prevent yeast infections, and that only
live cultures (not active cultures) will perform such a task. In the US, such
yogurts will normally say "live and active cultures." Even if they don't, you
can find several yogurts which contain acidophilus, a live yogurt culture.
Dannon, Columbo, Breyers, all of the major retailers, sell yogurt which
contains acidophilus.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:39:03 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com>
Subject: Re: What is bettter whole hop leaves or, pellets
You's Guys Wrote...
>DGofus@aol.com asks:
>>... What is bettter whole hop leaves or, pellets? My
>>experience has beeen mostly with pellets, but have recently read that whole
>>hops give a better aroma factor due to the breakdown of the lupin gland in
>>the pellets?
>
>I've brewed over 30 batches, I've but never used whole hops. I am almost
>out of pellets though, and I think I'll be using whole or plug hops
>exclusively next season. I'm looking forward to using them in my 1/2
>barrel "system", and getting some hot break filtering, via my easy masher.
>Whole hops are more natural, and I like that.
>- -----
Over the years I have done an awful lot of hop experimentation and these two
posts bring up a very interesting bunch of thoughts from me.
I have been toying with using Hop Pellets as the bittering hops (anything
that is in the boil more than 50 minutes). Then using either plugs or whole
leaf Hops for the flavor and aroma hops.
I have found that in my experience the Hop Pellets tend to give me the
better boiling hop bitter than plugs or whole leaf and that the plugs and
whole leaf work far much better for flavor and aroma.
So come Al.... Tell me if I am on track or just plain nuts (well I know I am
already actually).
Has anybody else found this to be true?
C'ya!
-Scott
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
# "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" #
################################################################
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 97 07:59 PDT
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: re:Foamy Beer
Al K comments on my carbonation process in HBD#2418:
>What your instructions would never fail to do is make foamy beer.
>I don't even have to look at my CO2 solubility tables to know that
>25-30 psi at 33F will give you well over 4 volumes of carbonation!
>This is double what you want for most styles. If you are getting
>normal carbonation this way, either:
>1. your thermostat is off (your fridge interior is much warmer than you
>think it is),
I have calibrated the thermostat in my fridge with two separate thermometers.
>2. you're not waiting the 24 hours you suggest and, in fact, the beer
>is much warmer than 33F,
In some cases this is actually true. Sometimes I will keg early in the
morning and carbonate that evening. However, it makes no apparent difference
as long as about 12 hours have passed.
>3. your regulator is off and you are not at 25-30 psi,
Go back and read the process. The third step says "disconnect ..."
>4. you get all foam and you like it, or
I do not get "all foam" I get properly carbonated beer.
>5. all of the above.
None of the above.
>Now, I don't mean this as a slam on Charley, but really this is very
>bad advice.
Thanks for the "no slam". However, I don't agree that its bad advice. It
works. Try it, then tell us if the beer comes out all foam. Mine doesn't or
obviously I wouldn't give the procedure.
>I force-carbonate ales at 68F at 30psi and then cool them
(disconnected from the gas!)
Like me.
> to 55F for serving (at 8 to 12 psi).
How many kegs are you keeping pressurized simultaneously? I find that if I
have one keg in the frige (very seldom but it happens) vs 4 kegs (all on a
single manifold) I have to set the regulator up higher to maintain the same
serving pressure.
>Since CO2 is much more soluble at cooler temperatures, your instructions
>are a recipe for *very* *highly* *carbonated* beer.
I use the cooler temperatures (33F) in order to hurry the process along and
get drinkable beer within 24-48 hours of beginning the process. I then
depressurize the keg and raise the temp up to 44F (warmest setting on my
thermostat).
I've had only one complaint of over carbonation since starting this process
last summer. Nobody else complained about the beer and it disappeared
rapidly down the gullets of many others.
Theory is one thing, practice is real and this process does work in my basement.
Hope you enjoyed your vacation Al.
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:09:24 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton@iastate.edu>
Subject: Hop Growing Summary
Howdy All,
I have used the suggestion of others on the HBD to do some past issue
searches, then report the results to the masses.
Here goes on the subject of Hop Vine Growth and Maintenance:
Planting:
- Plant the vines under a lattice of some sort that extends quite high (on
the order of 15-25 feet) such that the vines may grow straight upward.
Some people suggested using a double pole arrangement with a horizontal
wire across the top, and several pieces of wire or twine hanging down. to
facilitate vertical growth. Others suggested a single pole with several
wires extending from the top to the ground in a star-shaped pattern (ala a
Maypole).
- Plant the vines after the threat of frost is passed.
- Plant the vines where they will receive lots of sunlight (southern
exposure in the northern hemisphere, northern exposure in the southern
hemisphere)
Soil Prep
- If you have too much clay, add some sand to the soil(HBD 1373) to aid
drainage
- till the soil to a depth of 6-8 inches
- dress the soil with bone meal, favored over horse or cow manure for its
slow-release character(HBD 1768)
- place rhizome above the dressed soil (see above) and cover it with peat
moss, and layer some fine tree bark over the whole mess to make a mound
(HBD 1373)
Hop Vine Maintenance
- get rid of mites by using insect aversion (rub leaves to squish the
buggers and leave the corpses behind to scare away their buddies)
- spray murphy's oil soap on the tops and undersides of the leaves
- Both of these BEFORE flowering (HBD 1385)
- Rooting hormones act on the growing ends of the roots, and should be kept
carefully away from the shoot end(HBD 1386)
- Resist bunnies by fencing the vines
- Dogs seem to bother SPENT hops due to a hypothesis that SPENT hops have
barley sugar all over them(HBD 2217)
- Keep vines contained in their patch by sinking a four inch piece of metal
flashing into the ground, around the vine patch.
Harvest
- harvest the vines non-destructively (don't cut off the tops of the plants
until after the cones have been harvested) or harvest the cones off the
living plant.
Post-Growth Care
- Remove all traces of the dead plant matter after the growing season is
over. This reduces the chance of persisting insect infestation.
I hope this quick summary helps others. Any comments, additions, deletions
should be directed to me by email.
Jeff
Jeffrey M. Kenton Don't be afraid to go out on a limb,
ElEd/SecEd 201 Teaching Assistant that's where the fruit is. - Anonymous
N013 Lagomarcino Hall "Information comes, knowledge lingers"
jkenton@iastate.edu - Alfred Lord Tennyson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:10:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Lowry <lowry@me.pdx.edu>
Subject: Coffee Stout
I brewed a coffee stout from a recipe that a friend gave me last year. I
had tried a bottle of his creation and it was extraordinary and I wanted
to reproduce it on my own. After 2 months in the bottle, it tasted like
someone had poured old coffee into my stout! It was horrible. I quickly
called my buddy who said anything with coffee must be aged at least 6
months to mellow the acids in the coffee. Tried one last week on the 6
month bottling anniversary and he was right. It was great. Smooth,
hoppy, and a bit of coffee flavor showing through in the after taste. The
advice here is BE PATIENT IF YOU ARE BREWING WITH COFFEE....it pays!!
If anyone would like the recipe (it's and extract recipe) feel free to
conctact me via private e-mail.
Cheers!!
**************************************************************************
Thomas S. Lowry
Department of Civil Engineering
Portland State University
(503) 725-4285 work
(503) 648-4252 home
**************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 10:26:22 -0000
From: "Aaron Herrick" <chemstat@phoenix.net>
Subject: Yeast culturing
For the last few months, I have delved deep into the subject of yeast
culturing for one and only one purpose: The culturing of yeast from St.
James Gate (Guinness). I was successful, once an Irish friend smuggled a
bottle of Guinness from the emerald isle (Only the domestic (Ireland)
Guinness is bottle conditioned.) Step by step I learned some things which
may help the rest out there:
1) It's easy with the right equipment
There are so many ways to culture from bottle conditioned beer I wont try
to summarize them here. Suffice to say each method works well, depending
on your need for cool looking glassware. I went to a local university (Go
Cougars!) and acquired petri dishes and an inoculation loop. This worked
well with my need for cool glassware and the equipment was easy to use.
2) Technique is everything
I was streaking my dishes poorly. Part of the problem was the bulky glove
box I made to keep contaminants out. A microbiologist friend of mine
(thanks Matt!) taught me proper technique and now my glove box is
unnecessary. Just flame your loop often and streak quickly. My advice:
find someone with good culturing technique and bribe them to teach you.
3) Clean? Yes. "Outbreak" suits? No.
A clean work environment is helpful. However, the complex techniques some
HBDers come up with do more harm than good, scaring people away from this
easy offshoot of brewing. My advice is: start simple. If you get
contamination, step up to the next level of environment (Clean Kitchen,
UltraClean Kitchen, Ultra Clean Living room, paper-septum or similar
technique, Glove-Box, etc.)
Conclusion:
If I can do this, anyone can. My hand shakes pretty bad, and my girlfriend
will attest I'm not a neat person. I'll let you know if I get the Guinness
taste right.
Sorry for the length: Brew ON!
Aaron Herrick
Deja Brew
Houston, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:36:41 GMT
From: stencil@bcn.net (stencil)
Subject: Upright Freezer
On 12 May 97 13:55:00 -0700 you asked:
>
>I have an opportunity to buy an upright freezer=20
>[...] I would like to use this=20
>for lagering/keg storage. Any thoughts?
Be careful! Many uprights make the chiller coils integral with the
shelf assemblies; if you cannot remove the shelves, kiss goodby the
notion of using the freezer for corny keg storage.
stencil@bcn.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:31:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: FivestarAE@aol.com
Subject: Testers wanted
Five Star Products and Services, makers of PBW non-caustic alkaline cleaner
and many sanitizing chemicals for the brewing industry, is thinking about
getting into suppling homebrewers as well.
To that end, we would like 20-30 homebrewers to test our products and report
back to us how useful and effective they found them. If interested please
reply via E-mail to FivestarAE@AOL.com. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:19:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: IBU formulas
Pat writes:
>Since IBU by definition is something that can only be determined by lab
>analysis, there is no way to tell which formula for predicting IBUs is
>"best" without a series of lab trials to compare to predicted IBU levels.
>So far as I know, this has not been done, at least I haven't read about it.
An exhaustive test has not been done (to the best of my knowledge) but
I do have three datapoints which I described in detail in my review of
"Using Hops" which was published in Zymurgy back in 1995. To make a
long story short, I didn't test Garetz's formulas directly, but I did
test Rager's formulas by brewing two batches using the formulas (although
I added 10% to compensate for the hop bags I was using) and then sent
the beers to Siebel Institute for IBU testing. In one batch (10 gallons),
Rager's formulas said 40 IBUs, Siebel tested 41.5 IBUs. I don't recall
the second batches' numbers but the measured IBUs were within 5% of
those predicted with Rager's formulas (plus 10% for the hop bags).
When I compared the hop weights given in Rager's formulas (4.4 oz. for 60 min
and 2.4 oz. for 15 min) with what Garetz's formulas *would have* suggested
(8.87 oz. for 60 min, 3.0 oz. for 10 min), it's clear that the Garetz
formulas would have made a beer that was nowhere near 40 IBUs (probably well
over 60 IBUs!). I did a few other, informal, comparisons and the Garetz hop
additions were roughly DOUBLE what was predicted by Rager's formulas and the
beers were clearly reasonably within the expected bitterness range.
Mind you: these are just datapoints for *MY* system and others may get
different results, but I can't see how anyone would get *half* of the
utilisation I get in my system (at that time, it was a 10-gallon Polar
SS kettle on a 12,000 btu kitchen stove, glass fermenters w/blowoff tubes).
Agreed, a series of tests are needed, testing many variables. I (well,
Sheaf & Vine Brewing Supply did, but back then I was the owner) co-sponsored
such a project more than two years ago, but it seems to have gotten stalled.
Bottom line, for *my* system, Garetz's formulas recommend *twice* the
correct amount of hops.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 97 16:26:32 MDT
From: guym@Exabyte.COM
Subject: Re: Upright Freezer
Eric writes:
> I have an opportunity to buy an upright freezer
> for pretty cheap. Can the brewers thermostats that
> I have heard of work with freezers as well as refrigerators?
> Is an upright Freezer desirable? I would like to use this
> for lagering/keg storage. Any thoughts?
Eric,
I bought an upright - in fact, I bought two of them for $50.00 from a
church that was upgrading to a large commercial freezer. The drawback to
an upright is that the shelves contain the cooling coils and are therefore
not adjustable nor removable. That means that, while bottled beer and kegs
(lying down) will fit, most fermentors will not. I am getting around that
issue by building a cold box like Byron Burch outlined in an older Zymurgy
article. It is basically an insulated, 2 x 4 and plywood box that attaches
to the front of the freezer unit (the door is removed from the freezer and
attached to the wooden box) that greatly expands the capacity. Inside the
cold box section I can fit multiple fermentors and kegs. It also makes
adding taps a breeze by drilling through the wooden section instead of the
freezer itself. While most people recommend chest freezers or
refrigerators, I like the upright freezer idea because you don't have to
lift heavy fermentors/kegs in and out over the lip (chest freezer) and,
with the cold box, you have more room than a refrigerator. I can look up
the back issue of Zymurgy for the cold box article tonight. The bonus is
that all the shelves can still be used to house large quantities of bottled
beer in addition to the kegs and/or fermentors in the cold box section.
And, yes, the controllers work just as well for freezers (chest or upright)
as they do for refrigerators. I have the Johnson Controls unit and it
works very well. Hope this helps.
Guy McConnell /// guym@exabyte.com /// CoralReefer@compuserve.com
"Give me oysters and beer, for dinner every day of the year, and I'll feel
fine..."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:09:53 -0500
From: Mark Rodziewicz <markrodz@wwa.com>
Subject: Lager Yeast
My apologies if this topic has already been discussed, but I haven't had
the time to browse the archives.
My questions are on the use of liquid lager yeast (specifically, Wyeast
Bavarian):
1. After popping the pouch, should the yeast be refrigerated within the
lager temp range until it swells, or should it be left at room temp?
2. Is a 22 oz. bottle of starter enough for a 5 gallon batch? Should
the starter also be refrigerated within the confines of the cool lager
temps?
3. Should the wort be cooled to the lager temp, and then the yeast
pitched, or should I pitch the yeast at < 78 degrees as in ales and then
refrigerate the wort?
As you can tell, I'm new to making a lager, so any help will be
appreciated. Thanks in advance....Mark R.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 97 15:51:51 -0800
From: rbarnes@sdccd.cc.ca.us
Subject: Bleach residue, freezer controller, Wyeast Munich
Thanks to all who replied regarding my recent query regarding bleach
residue and the temperature setting for my freezer controller. In
addition to responses posted here, I got private replies which
suggested that I remove the bleach residue with a dilute acid
solution. I purchased swimming pool acid (38% sulfuric acid), used
approx. 2 oz/gal, and this took the residue off within 15 minutes.
ALWAYS be sure to wear eye protection and gloves, pour the acid into
the water and not the water into the acid, and rinse thoroughly with
clean water after the acid treatment. I'm concerned that the glass may
be permanently etched by the bleach, I'll let you know how my next
batch turns out. Another suggested that I use vinegar to remove the
residue, this would also be a good idea.
(I was actually looking for hydrochloric acid but the store didn't
have any. Did I screw up by using sulfuric acid?)
Regarding the freezer setting when using an external controller, one
suggested setting the freezer at maximum cold, another suggested
setting it at the warmest setting. I'll probably set it at the coldest
setting since even the warmest setting will freeze everything anyway.
With my new freezer, I'm going to make a Vienna-style lager this
weekend. I bought Wyeast Munich 2308, was this a good choice? Any
advice on fermenting with this yeast?
Thanks again to all - Randy in San Diego
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 18:37:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Subject: Co2 soluability tables/curves
Does anyone know where to get copies of the CO2 soluability curves ?
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2419, 05/15/97
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