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HOMEBREW Digest #2422
HOMEBREW Digest #2422 Tue 20 May 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
BadTiming/Cool Chicks (eric fouch)
Little Apple Brewing Compan ("Fred Mitchell")
Re: Increase in temperature during fermentation (Jim Wallace)
5L Minikeg British Bitter - low carbonation? (dbrigham)
combining yeasts for fermentation (dbrigham)
partial boil extract brews too dark (dbrigham)
Offensive language/Keg fermenter (John Wilkinson)
yeast language offensive??? (Rae Christopher J)
Marinaded? Hmmmm. (pbabcock.ford)
Help- Kegs & fitting what do I have??? ("Trollhattan Motors, Inc.")
Brewers Pitch ("Ralph l. Gifford")
keg airlock (John_E_Schnupp)
Think before you speak/post (John_E_Schnupp)
Is Your Web Site A Secret? (owl)
Cold storage and diacetyl (Brewers Beer Gear)
Keg fermenting (PAUL W HAAF JR)
IBUs (Jason Henning)
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org
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JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 07:37:08 -0500 (EST)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc@mcimail.com>
Subject: BadTiming/Cool Chicks
- --Boundary (ID i.g+01I_J1YG9K,7UY9-1VV9.9DGI1IG)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
- -----------------------------
Application message id: STC010 970519083414933491
Posted date: MON MAY 19, 1997 4:34 am GMT
Importance: Normal
Grade of Delivery: Normal
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Description: 7 BIT ASCII
Date: Monday, 19 May 1997 8:32am ET
To: STC012.HOMEBREW@STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch@STC001
Subject: BadTiming/Cool Chicks
In-Reply-To: The letter of Monday, 19 May 1997 2:37am ET
HBD-
Laura complains:
~"Can we ditch the gyno-discussion?"
I guess this would be a bad time to repost my question regarding the use of
Monostat 7 as a fermentation inhibitor?
Eric Fouch
Bent Dick YactoBrewery
Kentwood, MI
"Chicks who brew are cool" - Me
- --Boundary (ID i.g+01I_J1YG9K,7UY9-1VV9.9DGI1IG)--
------------------------------
Date: 19 May 1997 07:51:26 -0800
From: "Fred Mitchell" <ALFRED.W.MITCHELL@cpmx.saic.com>
Subject: Little Apple Brewing Compan
I have been a subscriber (and largely a lurker) to the HBD for almost two
years now. I have learned a lot of really super information that I have used
to pass along in my previous functions as editor of the San Diego Society of
Barley Engineers monthly "Brewsletter". One of the most ardent and (to me
anyway) dedicated contributors to this list during this time has been Rob
Moline, head brewmaster of the Little Apple Brewing Company in Manhattan,
Kansas.
This past week I was in Manhattan to attend the college (Kansas State
University is located in Manhattan) graduation of my son. We took the
opportunity to sample the brews at Little Apple. I met with and had a long
discussion on brewing with Rob. He showed me his brewing operation and the
many challenges he has had to sucessfully overcome to not only meet a
commercial operation's demands but also put out a top notch product. For all
who read this list, should your travels take you through Kansas, you should
try to schedule a stop in Manhattan. Not only is it a picture postcard small
college town, but the stop at Little Apple would be well worth it.
Rob was a most gracious host and led us through a sampling of all his
products. While I am not (yet) a certified AHA judge, I can testify from my
many samplings of not only our own club's brews, but tastings from the
Southern California Homebrew Association's last three major festivals, that
Rob's entire line is all top quality. The care and attention to detail in all
his brews is readily evident. In particular his gold medal winning "Big 12
Barleywine" and his authentic layered Black & Tan were real crowd pleasers.
While endorsements of commercial operations is not the purpose of this list, I
wanted to publicly thank Rob for his hospitality and sharing of his brewing
talents.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:04:32 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
Subject: Re: Increase in temperature during fermentation
===Jeff Writes====================
I recently brewed a batch of Oatmeal Stout from an extract
recipe (OG = 1.058). The basement temperature is a pretty
constant 68 deg F and the wort temperature was also 68 deg
when fermentation commenced. I noticed that at peak
fermentation (burping about 80/min) the temperature, according
to the Fermometer, was about 72 or 73 deg.
==================================
in all of my fermentations I use fermentstrips on my fermenters and place a
thermometer in a liter of liquid alongside the fermenter... this gives me
the ambient temp and the water buffers it from quick changes.
I quite often note a temp difference between this and fermenter of up to 4
degrees during strong fermentation.
___________________________________________
JIM WALLACE ... jwallace@crocker.com
I travel to the wild places of this planet
and would like to share what I see....
...http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace
___________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 97 11:29:58 EST
From: dbrigham@nsf.gov
Subject: 5L Minikeg British Bitter - low carbonation?
I am about to brew a 'typical' British Bitter - low alcohol and
low carbonation. I'm a bottle condition/5L minikeg person - no
force carbonation/full size kegs for me yet.
So - the question - can I with bottles, or preferably the 5L
minikegs, end up with a reasonable fascimile of a draught 'Pub'
British Bitter - in terms of carbonation? If I can - what hints
on amount of sugar for priming and reliance on CO2 cartridges (or
hand air-pump) to force the ale out of the minikegs?
Thanx!!!
Dana Brigham ...As he brews, so shall he
National Science Foundation drink.
dbrigham@nsf.gov Ben Johnson 1573-1637
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 97 11:31:11 EST
From: dbrigham@nsf.gov
Subject: combining yeasts for fermentation
What is the concensus on combining strains of yeast for
fermentation - as in combining different strains of ale yeast in
order to get specific characteristics associated with the yeast
being combined? I know that Wyeast does sell some packages which
are combinations of yeast (like their 'mild' German wheat (sorry,
don't recall the number) yeast which uses a mild ale strain and a
traditional wiezen strain) - so it must work in some cases. I
don't think I'm crazed enough (YET!) to try combining ale and
lager yeasts - but does anyone have any experience, warnings,
anecdotes, triumphs to share?
Thanx!!!
Dana Brigham ...As he brews, so shall
National Science Foundation he drink.
dbrigham@nsf.gov Ben Johnson 1573-1637
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 97 11:40:01 EST
From: dbrigham@nsf.gov
Subject: partial boil extract brews too dark
I currently boil my extract/partial mash batches in 3 gallon
volumes (5 gallon final recipe volume) due to limited overhead
space on the stove. I use a 'generic' stainless stock pot, and I
have fitted one of those cast iron 'hot plates' to the front 8"
burner on my electric range. The hot plate thing does a real good
job at evenly distributing the heat (and it stays hot for a *LONG*
time after the burner is off). But I am consistently getting
darker batches than I plan on. There is some caramelization of
the sugars on the bottom of the pot - but not too much, at least
to my untrained eye. I do try to stir often (but not constantly)
and I do full 60 minute boils. I assume (since most don't say)
that the recipes I find in the Internet, homebrew mags and my
books are generally for a full 5 gallon boil.
So - without cutting back on body/flavor adding ingredients, how
can I 'lighten up' the color of my homebrew given my current
constraints of not enough room for a pot big enough to do a full 5
gallon boil? Am I lacking in some technique? Is it my karma?
Should I really get clear lenses and get rid of these Photo-Grey
ones in my glasses?
Thanks!!!
Dana Brigham ...As he brews, so shall he
National Science Foundation drink.
dbrigham@nsf.gov Ben Johnson 1573-1637
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 97 13:37:44 CDT
From: jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Offensive language/Keg fermenter
>From a Ray Estrella post:
> Hello to all,
>Laura hisses,
>
>>Thanks to Rae Christopher J for the scientific discussion, but, could you all
>>do us gals out here a favor and ditch the gyno-discussion? I have already
>>dressed down the poor guy who posted the original. This kind of stuff is
>>pretty offensive to the female brewers/readers out there. If I want to read
>>about that sort of thing I'll find another news group.
>>Tsssssssssssss, steam let off, going back to my bowl of milk,
>
>I was one of the people that asked for further clarification concerning an
>earlier post suggesting that the yeast in homebrew could set off yeast
>infections. As I said before my wife is very susceptible to them, and I do not
>think it is offensive to her that I (and obviously others) would want to know
>more. If you have information about beers effects on prostrate health I
>promise
>to read with an uncritical eye, and not dress you down for it. This digest is
>for everyone, if you don't like a post, just hit PgDn. Maybe the next one will
>be to your liking.
I guess I missed what Laura was talking about and commented on the wrong thing.
I thought she was talking about coarse language in HBD. If not, I have to
agree with Ray. I don't see why anyone would find what he said offensive.
As usual I continue to be in the dark.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bret wrote:
>I bought a 10 gallon corny keg so I wouldn't need a blowoff tube (I do
>5 gal batches). I filled the headspace with CO2. My question has to
>do with yeast's ability to grow/reproduce in a pressurized
>environment. I've seen some people making 12psi relief valves using a
>poppet spring from an extra tank plug, while others simply release the
>pressure once per day (my choice).
>
>Does anyone have any experience with this?
I ferment in a 10 gallon keg that has an old style relief valve that is held
onto the lid with a large plastic nut inside. I removed the relief valve
and use an airlock with a #2 stopper or a blow off hose in the hole if I
expect a vigorous ferment. I used to remove the gas in fitting and slip a
hose over the threaded projection it was screwed to. The other end of the
hose was in a jar of water. Perhaps I am misunderstanding again but why
fill the headspace with CO2? It should be full of air or even O2 at pitching
time and will fill with CO2 naturally as fermentation proceeds.
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins@imtn.dsccc.com
- ----- End Included Message -----
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:51:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7@qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: yeast language offensive???
This message has been pirated by Jimena Bordes, the partner of Rae
Christopher J.
Laura and J Wilkinson seem to me to be easily offended.
I think it is wonderful to live in a world where men, particularly the one
I'm "stuck" with, are interested and informed about problems that they, in
all likelyhood, will never experience. 30 years ago, men were
uninterested in the process of pregnancy and childbirth, kept out of the
delivery room, and understood when they said they had no interest in
helping to raise the children...that was "woman stuff". Today, happily,
they are involved and supportive (or at least most are) in many aspects of
thier partner's lives. What happened here was one concerned man reaching
out to the collective for help on a _beer-related_ issue. He got a few
good responses, which hopefully will allow his wife to enjoy the products
of the collective's efforts. Nowhere in the responses was rudeness,
crudeness, or lewdness. If simple, concerned, discussion of a problem
that 80% of all women (and therefore ~40% of the population of earth) is
offensive, then perhaps you need to look deep within yourself to find out
why.
I am also a little offended myself to read that I am offended by this
discussion. Perhaps you might have done better to state that _you_ were
offended, not that "women readers and brewers" were. Please don't speak
for me if you don't know me.
No apology for piracy.
___________________________________________________________
This is Jimena's signature:
JB-_-_-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:52:26 EDT
From: pbabcock.ford@e-mail.com
Subject: Marinaded? Hmmmm.
Pat Babcock Internet: pbabcock.ford@e-mail.com
VO Body Launch Specialist- PN150/1 EAP
****>>>> PLEASE USE PF5 WHEN REPLYING TO THIS NOTE!!!! <<<<****
Subject: Marinaded? Hmmmm.
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
In HBD 2421, Dave "in Indy" Bradley spake thusly:
"As I say, at the very worst I'll have 10gal of marinade for brats!"
Really? Is soaking your children in beer generally accepted in
Indiana? I'll have to try that...
Best regards,
Patrick G. Babcock PN150/1 Launch - Edison Assembly Plant
(908)632-5930 x5501 Route 1 South, Edison, NJ 08818-3018
Fax (908)632-4546 Page 800-SKY-PAGE PIN: 544-9187
Best regards,
Patrick G. Babcock PN150/1 Launch - Edison Assembly Plant
(908)632-5930 x5501 Route 1 South, Edison, NJ 08818-3018
Fax (908)632-4546 Page 800-SKY-PAGE PIN: 544-9187
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 97 13:54:12 -0500
From: "Trollhattan Motors, Inc." <direct@cybertroll.com>
Subject: Help- Kegs & fitting what do I have???
Hello all...
I have 8 old stainless kegs, they are rounded made by Firestone
for Schaefer Beer Company. It has a wooden bong in the side
and a screw type fitting in the top. Similar to the Hoff-Stevens (SP)
except it has only one hole for the probe. The screw in adapter is
also marked Schaefer / Draft Systems (DS), and has a 3 lug nut to
screw onto the keg. It has a single stainless probe with two o-rings.
The co2 line connects to the of the PLASTIC body of the connector,
via a hose barb.
What do I have?
I would like to get some replacement o-rings for the one connector
I have, also get an extra adapter, since the body is made of plastic,
I am afraid it may break.
Any assistance would be appreciated. Private e-mail is fine...
Cheers,
Bob
bob@cybertroll.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 19:04:23 -0400
From: "Ralph l. Gifford" <rkgiffor@epix.net>
Subject: Brewers Pitch
In a number of books and articles on colonial brewing, wooden casks etc.
they talk about BREWERS PITCH. It is described as the substance used
for making old mash tubs water tight etc. How does one make Brewers
Pitch and what are the ingredients?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:36:48 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp@amat.com
Subject: keg airlock
In the HBD #2421 Bret had the following lament about corny keg fermenting:
>I decided to try fermenting in a corny keg - it's indestructible, has
>nice handles on it, you can get hydrometer readings and transfer using
>CO2, etc. The only down-side is you can't count "glugs" from the
>fermentation lock so you know something's happening.
I'd like to suggest a humble solution: Sacrifice a lid and drill a hole in
the center large enough to accommodate a drilled stopper. A #2 = 3/4" and
a #5 1/2 = 1". I have a 1/2" titanium coated drill bit that I use to drill
holes in my lids for valve stems. A chassis punch could also be used.
Over a year ago I wrote an article concerning using valve stems in PET
bottle lids as a carbonation cap. An off-shoot of this idea was to install
valve stems on my kegs. I often have more kegs filled with beer awaiting
consumption than I have room in my fridge. In order to obtain the
"correct", or should I say desired, carbonation level I need to apply a
different CO2 pressure to the kegs that are not in the fridge that those
that are. A valve stem on the keg and an air chuck on the end of a CO2
line make this task so much easier. Hope this provides you and others with
some useful ideas. I'm a gadget type of guy and it seems like I'm always
tinkering with ideas like this. I'm also a field service engineer, which
means that one of my main goals is taking breaks, this in turn prompts me
to always be looking for a better, faster and less painful way to get
the job done.
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
john_e_schnupp@amat.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:38:23 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp@amat.com
Subject: Think before you speak/post
Here I go again, poking my head out of my cave and getting on my own little
soap box. I'd like to address the recent yeast infection thread and the
spat it created as well as the recent pokes (not sure if they were in jest
but
I'd bet they weren't) at AlK. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion
and
I'm surely not going to tell anyone to "shut up and sit down", goodness
knows
that I'm very opinionated and outspoken myself. I would like to point out,
however, that we as a group are getting dangerously close to turning the
HBD
digest backing a personal attack digest. (At least that's they way I
remembered
it being just before it died it's FIRST death a few months ago). When it
died
I didn't sign back up for quite a while because of that very reason. I was
pleasantly surprised when I saw the digest was back and was ecstatic that
the
attacks and slanderous comments had stopped and discussion had gotten back
to the
real reason we all subscribe, BEER.
I now return you to the regularly scheduled discussion on the fine art of
brewing.
The views expressed in this editorial are not necessarily those of the
management. Please address opposing points of view to:
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
john_e_schnupp@amat.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:22:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: owl@owlsnest.com
Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret?
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:52:20 -0700
From: Brewers Beer Gear <brewers@brewgear.com>
Subject: Cold storage and diacetyl
Just wanted to respond to Spencer Thomas' May 15 article that stated:
"Aging cold will reduce esters, diacetyl, etc., giving you a more
'lager-like' flavor."
Actually, the opposite is true of diacetyl. Aging cold does not reduce
diacetyl; on the contrary, both diacetyl production and reduction are
accelerated at higher (i.e. room) temperatures; since most ales are
fermented in primary at 60-70 degrees F, that means that moving them to
cold storage(i.e. 32-50 degrees F) before all the freshly-produced
diacetyl has had a chance to also be reduced at the warmer temp will
actually slow and eventually halt diacetyl reduction. That is why many
commercially produced lagers go through one or more "diacetyl rests"
where they are allowed to warm up for a period of several hours at a
time to stimulate diacetyl reduction. It's also why English ales are
"warm conditioned" at 50-55 degrees after only a few days in primary.
And it's why many brewpub beers are considered "green" when served -
they are often transferred to cold storage after as few as only 3 days.
If you want to cold condition your ales, the ultra-safe rule to ensure
minimal residual diacetyl is to wait 8-12 days after the start of the
fermentation before moving the beer to cold storage, however, generally
5-7 days will be sufficient with most yeast strains (source: notes from
Siebel Jan 97 Diploma Course). Remember that the yeast strain used has a
strong bearing on this result. Also remember that although some diacetyl
is desirable in certain styles, it is generally considered to be a
defect (especially in commercially produced beers), especially since an
excessive amount can be a result of a pediococcus infection. Hope this
helps shed some light.
Alex Kohrt
brewers@linkline.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 22:18:16 EDT
From: haafbrau1@juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR)
Subject: Keg fermenting
In response to the brewer who wants to ferment in his cornie keg, don't
put any CO2 in the keg, because the yeast needs O2 for it's start of
fermenting. Since CO2 is heavier than O2, this will blanket your wort,
hindering your intention. The other drawback to this approach is the
fact that unless you transfer to another keg after 2-3 weeks, your beer
will suffer yeast bite (unless of course you can kill of the keg that
quickly!) and other taste funkies.(more big words) If you are making a
batch for a party and the people aren't too fussy, this is an easy way to
go. Otherwise, if you are looking for an indestructable (mostly)
fermenter, I would suggest going with a 6.5 gallon bucket setup,
available from your homebrew supply place of choice. This is just my
humble opinion, and we all know what opinions are like.
Brew well and prosper
Paul Haaf
haafbrau1@juno.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 20:45:23 -0700
From: Jason Henning <huskers@cco.net>
Subject: IBUs
I use Glenn Tenseth's (sp?) formulas over Jackie Rager's for a couple
reasons. Rager's utilizations are in table form. That makes it difficult
to use in a spreedsheet or program. Rager tweaks the IBU equation ( u% x
AA% x grams / liters ) for high gravity adjustments whereas Tenseth
adjusts the u%. Seems more natural to tweak u% to me.
I was going through this same debate last year. I was using Rager and a
spreedsheet. It was difficult to play with the hop schedule because
changing the time also required looking up the u% and changing it. So I
started looking for a best fit line of Rager. (math ahead) I found the
first derivative is relativily straight upward sloping between 0 and 45.
Second derivative to pretty flat between these points. This is (nearly)
a parabola. Intergateing twice and solving for the constants, I got
u% = .005*t^2 + .18*t +4.25 where t is the minutes in the boil.
Works good between 0 and 45 minutes to *estimate Rager's table*.
All seemed ok but it's the wrong curve! This isn't how I understand u%.
I think u% is a curve thats has declining growth rate. For instance,
hops added for an hour, we extract 2/3 of the bitterness in the first 20
minute. We're looking for a curve that is steep for the first 15 minutes
or so. then starting to flatten out and finally leveling out at about
30% around the 45 to 60 minute mark. Ragers table is just opposite of
this between 0 and 45 minutes. His curve is concave up, needs to be
concave down (convex up?).
I sure Rager's original article to Zymurgy was a big help to homebrewers
in 1990 but I think it just hasn't stood the test of time.
Cheers,
Jason Henning (huskers@cco.net)
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Olympia, Washington - "It's the water"
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #2422, 05/20/97
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