Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #2423
HOMEBREW Digest #2423 Wed 21 May 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
On Combining Yeasts for Fermentation (John Sullivan)
Re: Cold Box (was Upright Freezer) (guym)
Homebrew Digest #2422 (May 20, 1997) ("Bret A. Schuhmacher")
Spirit of Free Beer (Mark Stevens)
ALK ("Rich Byrnes")
HBD and Advertising ("Roberts, Ned")
Yeast Infections (David Johnson)
Carb. levels in kegs ("Dave Draper")
Well I'll be SPAM'ed (John_E_Schnupp)
Indy-only posting (sorry!) (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
Combining Yeasts (Scott Dornseif)
Keg fermenters (Tom Pope)
Re: Fermenting in Corny Kegs (Pat Lohmann)
Carbonator Attachements ("C&S Peterson")
Classic American Bock?? (Lou Heavner)
Grolsch Hops? ("Tomusiak, Mark")
Yeast Reuse and Recipe for Irish Ale ("Tim M. Dugan")
Announcing: Low-level moderation on the HBD (Some guy)
Fermenting in Corney Kegs / Insulating Mash Kegs (Ronald Babcock)
corny fermenting ("Bryan L. Gros")
oatmeal stout/rogue yeast (Eric Tepe)
fight SPAM/IBU calcs/headspace (smurman)
Rager vs. Tinseth (Jeremy Bergsman)
Efficiency of ceramic stove tops (Eric Palmer)
Homebrew Digest #2422 (May 20, 1 (eric fouch)
mixed yeasts, not infections though. ("Raymond Estrella")
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hbd.org
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!
To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to homebrew-request@hbd.org.
BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BEER-L redistribution
list (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU), you must unsubscribe by sending a one line
e-mail to listserv@ua1vm.ua.edu that says: UNSUB BEER-L
NOTE: If you have SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and
the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail!
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org
Please don't send requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
Previous issues are available via:
Anonymous ftp from...
hbd.org /pub/hbd
ftp.stanford.edu /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
E-mail...
ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com (send a one-line e-mail message with
the word help for instructions.)
AFS users can find it under...
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 06:05:49 -0700
From: John Sullivan <sullvan@anet-stl.com>
Subject: On Combining Yeasts for Fermentation
Dana wrote asking if many of us, combine yeasts for certain effects.
I would think that most of us who do not culture our own yeast avoid
doing this due to the cost associated with it. However, if you culture
your own and have a substantial bank of yeast, it is a worthwhile
pursuit.
The best example I have of combining yeasts to good effect is combining
weizen yeasts. Wyeast's Weihenstephen Weizen yeast (3068) is
banana-on-a-stick while Yeast Labs Bavarian Weizen (W51) is a very strong
clove phenolic producer. I have found that by pitching these in roughly
a 2 to 1 ratio of W51 to 3068 that you get a very nice clovey weizen with
a hint of banana. While the W51 works well by itself, I have found the
3068 to often be too banana or bubblegum like. Banana and bubblegum are
desireable phenolics in a weizen but I do not think they should overwhelm
you.
This is the only situation where I actually go out and buy two different
yeasts to pitch. In slow or stuck fermentation situations, I have
pitched a different yeast late. I can recall a situation where a tripel
fermented with Wyeast 3944 crapped out on me at about 2/3 of the way to
completing its job and I repitched with Wyeast 1214. In that case, it
was not a bad effect but perhaps not as desireable as to have had the
3944 do the complete job.
In both cases that I have experienced, all the yeasts have very
pronounced flavor or aroma characteristics. Where this is the case,
combining yeasts is probably worthwhile, if you have an idea of what you
want and that this combination will get you there.
John Sullivan
St. Louis, MO
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 97 08:14:36 MDT
From: guym@Exabyte.COM
Subject: Re: Cold Box (was Upright Freezer)
Due to significant interest in the "cold box" concept, I dug up the
Zymurgy that Byron Burch's article appeared in. It is in the 1992
Special Issue and the article is entitled "Stalking the Wild Cold
Box" on page 22. In his article, Byron describes putting the door
from the refrigerator (or freezer) on the end of the cold box which
makes for a very deep storage area. This can make it somewhat
difficult to add or remove bottles, carboys, kegs, etc. from the
back of the box. Byron mentions that, if he were to make any
changes, it would be to put the door on the side. This is the way
my implementation is set up. It necessitates turning the freezer
sideways (with the opening facing right in my case) and screwing
the cold box to the front. The freezer door is placed on the side
of the cold box but it faces outward just like it used to on the
freezer when it was in its original orientation. This allows for a
large, open storage area for kegs and carboys in the cold box (mine
doesn't have the shelf like Byron's) with the inner freezer shelves
off to the left inside for storing bottles, yeast, etc. I will add
tap handles to the box soon (probably 4) and they will hang over my
utility sink in the garage negating the need for a drip tray.
I hope this reference will answer all the questions I received via
email. If not, let me know.
--
Guy McConnell /// Exabyte Corp. /// Huntersville, NC ///
guym@exabyte.com "I've got a native tongue, from way down South.
It sit in the cheek of my Gulf Coastal mouth..."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:13:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bret A. Schuhmacher" <bas@healthcare.com>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #2422 (May 20, 1997)
Thanks for all the ideas on fermenting in corny kegs in regard to
blow off tubes, etc. In response to some of your questions:
1) I thought about the CO2 layer on top of unfermented wort keeping
the wort from getting much needed oxygen. Therefore I aerated *the
hell* out of it before I put the CO2 in the keg. The CO2 was probably
overkill, but I didn't want any further oxygenation after fermentation
began.
2) I really don't like using blowoff tubes and buckets of water.
Besides, a 5 gallon batch in a 10 gallon keg shouldn't need a blowoff
tube. I was really looking for a solution that would leave a keg
structurally intact, yet let off pressure low enough that it didn't
harm the yeast. However, no one seems to have any thoughts on the
pressure/yeast question, so I'll consider it a minor issue.
3) I took a poppet spring and substituted it for the relief valve
spring, but they were different diameters and the relief valve body
had a shoulder and shank keeping the valve from having full travel. I
had to put everything back the way it was :-(. Can anyone confirm or
deny that the relief valve springs are 135psi and the QD springs are
10-20psi springs?
4) I may take a quick disconnect and attach a piece of hose with a
stopper and air-lock. I'll need some way to get the hose turned
vertically (run it through a 30 degree elbow?) so the water doesn't
leak out of the airlock.
Thanks for all your ideas!
Rgds,
Bret
- --
Bret A. Schuhmacher - Software Engineer
bas@healthcare.com These opinions are no one's
Healthcare Communications, Inc. fault by my own.
I stopped to think and forgot how to start again.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:19:48 -0400
From: stevens@stsci.edu (Mark Stevens)
Subject: Spirit of Free Beer
Time to send in those entries for the Spirit of Free Beer
homebrew competition !!!
That's right, folks. Entries are being accepted NOW through
May 30. All styles of beer, as well as mead and cider are
eligible.
This year's competition offers more prizes than ever before.
As in past years, ribbon winners in all categories get a
share of the vast treasure chest of beer & brewing goodies,
which includes sacks of malt, pounds of hops, gift certificates
from homebrew suppliers, T-shirts, sweatshirts, hats, bar
mirrors, beer, breweriana from a wide range of breweries,
and many, many other cool things.
This year, there will be five "brewer-for-a-day" type prizes,
three of which will be to scale up and brew your own winning
recipe. These prizes will go to the three best-of-show winners
plus two additional winners: One for the best overall ale, and
one for the best amber or dark lager. The breweries sponsoring
these prizes are: Virginia Beverage Company, Brimstone Brewing
Company, Potomac River Brewing Company, Blue N Gold brewpub,
and Oxford Brewing Company.
We expect especially high judging quality for this event
as we already have about 35 BJCP judges signed up to judge.
If you are a BJCP judge and would like to come judge with us,
please send email to Greg Griffin (gmgriff0@wcc.com).
Entry forms and details are available on BURP's web page
(http://www.burp.org). Questions??? Send me e-mail.
Good luck!
- ---Mark Stevens
competition organizer
stevens@stsci.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:19:38 EDT
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com>
Subject: ALK
Man, was that funny (Apologies to Mr Korzonas...)
Did anyone notice a post in 2422 from an Alex Kohrt (Brewers Beer Gear)
Does everyone realize what this means???? There are 2 Al K's on the
digest, oh perish the thought!
And if we could ever get them in the same room, side by side, shoulder
to shoulder we would have (yup, you guessed it) the Al K line (groan!)
Regards,_Rich Byrnes, Founder/President
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/ford (_)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:25:29 -0400
From: "Roberts, Ned" <robertsn@fdhc.state.fl.us>
Subject: HBD and Advertising
The "article" in Homebrew Digest #2422, from owl@owlsnest.com (re: IS
YOUR WEB SITE A SECRET?) has nothing, nothing, nothing at all to do with
homebrew! WHY WAS IT INCLUDED IN THE HOMEBREW DIGEST? Is someone
getting paid an advertising fee?
Lets keep the HBD to brewing subjects!
Ned Roberts
nedr@freenet.tlh.fl.us
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:36:38 -0700
From: David Johnson <dmjalj@inwave.com>
Subject: Yeast Infections
Fellow Brewers,
Until the recent discussion about the offensivenes of this
subject, I had been intending to post this information. I do not wish to
offend merely to inform. The subject matter which follows may not be
appropriate for all audiences those not interested may want to page down.
The microflora of a woman's vagina is diverse. It is usually
dominated by aerobic bacteria. Yeast is a common minor component and only
becomes a problem when it becomes the major organism. It is unfortunant,
perhaps, that we call this a yeast infection. It might be better termed a
yeast overgrowth syndrome. The problem is not that the yeast is there, it
is that it has overgrown the system and upset the local ecology. The key
is: what upset the balance? There are a number of common causes for this
that fall outside our reason for this discussion (I believe it is
whether homebrew causes "yeast infections") . Even if brewing yeast is
sometimes the overgrowing organism, the main concern is what caused it to
overgrow? Most women who have frequent yeast infections have some other
contributing factor (hormonal, antibiotic,or other) that favors the
growth of yeast whatever the type.
David Johnson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:46:56 -6
From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper@utdallas.edu>
Subject: Carb. levels in kegs
Dear Friends,
Several recent posts have touched, directly or indirectly, on the
notion that a beer primed at a given level and packaged in kegs,
either the 5L minikegs or larger soda kegs, will end up with higher
carbonation than will the identical beer primed at the same level but
packaged in bottles. That is, it seems that for some reason, the
amount of CO2 in the system will give more CO2 *in the beer* if that
beer is in a keg than if it is in the bottle, and in some cases the
5L kegs have even been reported to bulge or otherwise deform when
primed at the "expected" rate. Similar observations have been made
for some years in these pages; and after the priming article I
co-wrote with Mark Hibberd appeared in BT last year, we had a letter
asking that very question. Unfortunately, the answer I submitted was
consumed in the BT disk crash, but the bottom line of my reply was:
I don't know! Why *should* a keg end up overprimed in this way?
Having never used kegs yet, I have no basis for a direct comparison,
but I do not doubt the reports of brewers from whom this info comes.
But it really makes me scratch my head and wonder, because I cannot
understand why it should happen.
The obvious place to start looking for an answer is in the
relationship between headspace in a container of beer and the CO2
dissolved in the beer beneath the headspace. We have seen reports,
for example from Algis (not Albert!) K., on impressions of the
amount of "hiss" when a bottle cap is pried off and the ensuing
carbonation, and such info is a start, but does not get us all the
way there. What I would like to know is what proportion of a keg's
volume is empty space when a beer is packaged into it, and how does
that proportion compare to that between the headspace in a bottle
and the beer under it? In other words, is the ratio of the volume
of headspace to total volume radically different in kegs than in
bottles? I do not know but I am inclined to doubt it. The real test
is to have the hard data.
So, to the point at last: I would like to hear from interested keg
owners who might like to provide me with this kind of data. The goal
is to understand fully how the ratio of headspace to total volume
differs in kegs, in the hopes that the relationships used in the
aforementioned priming treatment (which I firmly believe are
"correct" as far as they go) can be modified or otherwise made to
incorporate this apparent phenomenon. For this purpose, I would ask
for PRIVATE email giving the usual ranges of fill levels in kegs--
does the headspace make up 5% of the total volume? 10%? 1%? I will
collate the data and, in the short term, tabulate the results in some
(hopefully) useful way; in the longer term I hope to be able to
figure this sucker out and present a modified version of the priming
procedure to take this situation into account.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Cheers, Dave in Dallas
- ---
*****************************************************************************
Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083
ddraper@utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper
Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html
Pitching your yeast at 70F instead of 90F *does* (in my experience)
improve the taste of your beer. ---John de Carlo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 06:35:22 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp@amat.com
Subject: Well I'll be SPAM'ed
Remember the thread a while back about spaming???
Well I'll be spamed (sic) because it looks like the HBD
just took one in the chin!!!
Spam is as spam does.
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
john_e_schnupp@amat.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:55:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@LILLY.COM>
Subject: Indy-only posting (sorry!)
For those who brew with Indy municipal water, I received a mailing
from the IWC detailing the annual average composition of the water
from the 4-5 water sources used in Indy. If you are interested in
the brewing-related info from this water analysis, send me an Email.
I can enter the data and send it to you (wish I had a web page to
just post it!). If you do write, tell me where you live so I can
figure out which water supply you are on (4 or 5 in Indy).
Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-B Brewery, v. Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:08:51 -0500
From: Scott Dornseif <roundboy@wwa.com>
Subject: Combining Yeasts
Dana Writes"
>Date: Mon, 19 May 97 11:31:11 EST
>From: dbrigham@nsf.gov
>Subject: combining yeasts for fermentation
> What is the concensus on combining strains of yeast for
> fermentation - as in combining different strains of ale yeast in
> order to get specific characteristics associated with the yeast
> being combined?
<<snip>>
> but does anyone have any experience, warnings,
> anecdotes, triumphs to share?
> Thanx!!!
> Dana Brigham
You must be careful if you combine the British Ale (WYEAST 1098) and the
Irish Ale (WYEAST 1084), You can end up with a CARboy bomb!
Scott Dornseif
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:43:13 -0700
From: popeman@webtv.net (Tom Pope)
Subject: Keg fermenters
I use 5 and 10 gallon soda kegs for fermenters. I remove the product
fitting and dip tube, then place a #7 drilled stopper over the the
threads. Then I fit a standard airlock or can also use a blow-off
tube if I prefer. At the end of primary fermentation, I sanitize the
product diptube and fitting and install them on the keg. Then I use
c02 to push the beer into another keg. This secondary fermenter often
turns out to be the serving tank, but if needed or warranted I will
later rack to a third keg as a bright tank. It seems to work well for
my purposes. Cheers......Tom Pope
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 97 10:48:24 EDT
From: Pat Lohmann <pat@ale.whoi.edu>
Subject: Re: Fermenting in Corny Kegs
content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii
mime-version:1.0
John_E_Schnupp commented:
.In the HBD #2421 Bret had the following lament about corny keg fermenting:
>I decided to try fermenting in a corny keg - it's indestructible, has
>nice handles on it, you can get hydrometer readings and transfer using
>CO2, etc. The only down-side is you can't count "glugs" from the
>fermentation lock so you know something's happening.
.I'd like to suggest a humble solution: Sacrifice a lid and drill a hole in
.the center large enough to accommodate a drilled stopper. A #2 = 3/4" and
.a #5 1/2 = 1". I have a 1/2" titanium coated drill bit that I use to drill
.holes in my lids for valve stems. A chassis punch could also be used.
I've been fermenting in 10 gallon cornys for years (they're about $45 from
St. Patricks in Austin) and use the CO2 IN as the blowoff, without
modification. Simply attach an IN connector with a short piece of house and
stick the other end of the hose in a jar of bleach water. It glugs just like
the real thing. After a couple of days of blowing off remove the disconnect and
let the keg pressurize. After a week or so transfer under pressure to 5 gallon
cornys...you'll need a piece of hose with liquid OUT connectors at each end.
This system is so clean I'm able to "repitch" the same yeast for months (i.e., I
don't clean the keg out between batches).
Pat Lohmann
Woods Hole MA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 97 14:55:41 UT
From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON@msn.com>
Subject: Carbonator Attachements
HBDers -
I'm a little frustrated with my "Carbonator" cap (made by Liquid Bread, it
allows you to inject CO2 into a PET bottle or attach a mini-tap to your
regulator). I bought two of these things and both have a nasty habit of the
poppet valve breaking loose from the inside of the carbonator. That is, there
is a small plastic ring that supports the poppet valve against the force of
the CO2 ball-lock attachment from the regulator. This ring appears to simply
"snap" in place, but breaks free when I connect it to the CO2 source (this is
a real PIA -- poppet valve falls into filled PET bottle, beer gets flat,
etc....)
I'm considering using some marine goop or super-glue on the thing. But is
anyone else out there having similar troubles? If not I may simply return the
product and request a replacement.
On the subject of HB products, how do folks who have Phil's Phase bottom like
the product? Any clogging/floating concerns? I am considering getting both
the sparge arm and bottom and wanted to hear some objective opinions from
those who have used these things.
Private email is fine.
TIA,
Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:17:25 -0500
From: lheavner@tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner)
Subject: Classic American Bock??
Greetings,
I have been intrigued with the classic American Pilsener promoted by
Jeff Renner. Down here in Texas, we have a popular little beer called
Shiner Bock. It is made with a fair portion of corn, or so I am told.
I have many friends who like it better than the standard commercial
beers. Is this the unique effort of that little brewery in Shiner, or
is it a style waiting to be discovered like CAP? It is pretty far
down on my list, but someday I will create a bock recipe with 20% or
so corn and domestic ingredients as much as possible. Any comments or
suggestions from the audience??
Regards,
Lou Heavner
<lheavner@frmail.frco.com>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 08:46:21 -0700
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak@amgen.com>
Subject: Grolsch Hops?
Greetings all...I was curious as to whether anyone has an idea of what
hops are used in the production of Grolsch beers. Both their pilsner
and their amber, when in good condition, have a very pleasing peppery
bitterness - Northern Brewer? Spalt? Any info would be appreciated -
Mark T, Boulder, Colorado.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:59:21 -0500
From: "Tim M. Dugan" <tdugan@netins.net>
Subject: Yeast Reuse and Recipe for Irish Ale
I have two questions for the great body of knowledge.
First question. I am fortunate enough to be able to brew on two =
consecutive weekends. I would like to reuse my yeast from last weekend, =
this weekend. Can I simply rack off my first batch to the secondary, =
and put the second batch right onto the trub and yeast from the first =
batch? Or should I go through the process and wash the yeast with =
sterile water as described in the Yeast FAQ?
Specifics: The yeast is Yeast Lab A03 London Ale. Right now it is =
finishing up fermenting a porter, and I am planning on making a oatmeal =
stout this weekend. The starting gravity of the porter was 1.058, and =
the stout will be in the 1.045-1.050 range.
Concerns: Since Ale yeast is top fermenting, will the yeast at the =
bottom of the primary be the "good yeast" or is the "good yeast" still =
suspended and only the weaker yeast is on the bottom? Will having the =
new batch sitting on top of the old batch's trub cause any trouble? =
I'll rack it off in five or six days.
Now my second question, Irish Ale is not considered a style of beer by =
either the AHA or BJCP, yet it has a unique taste. I have been looking =
for information about the specifics of what goes into an Irish Ale, =
without much success. I am hoping that you have come across some =
information to allow me to formulate a recipe, or if nothing else point =
me in the right direction and "I'll do my homework".
I realize that an Irish Ale it is a lot like an English Ale, but with an =
additional grain (crystal?) to add the red color. It has a malty taste, =
and is lightly hoped. What sets it apart is a taste I can not figure =
out. I want to say buttery, but that is not quite right. Like I said, =
any help you could provide would be beneficial.
I'll thank you all in advance for any help.
Tim M .Dugan
tdugan@netins.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:16:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some guy <pbabcock@mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: Announcing: Low-level moderation on the HBD
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
"Roberts, Ned" <robertsn@fdhc.state.fl.us> says of HBD and Advertising
> The "article" in Homebrew Digest #2422, from owl@owlsnest.com (re: IS
> YOUR WEB SITE A SECRET?) has nothing, nothing, nothing at all to do with
> homebrew! WHY WAS IT INCLUDED IN THE HOMEBREW DIGEST? Is someone
> getting paid an advertising fee?
> Lets keep the HBD to brewing subjects!
And to this end, the HBD Steering Committe has wrestled with the issue of
moderation on the HBD.
A few months ago, whilst perusing the incoming articles for one I had
lost, I came across a fairly offensive piece of spam. I contacted my
partner, Karl, and we agreed to ice it. Following our actions, we decided
that some form of article review may be prudent to prevent spam from
reaching the digest. And it was good.
But what if either Karl or I were to go psycho and start serial-killing
articles for no good reason? What if one of us killed one that was
borderline and later, feeling remorseful, wanted to bring it back? What
if... The issue was brought to the remainder of the steering committee
(who, I might add admonished Karl and I for nuking the first article
without prior consultation. Mea culpa, mea culpa! Won't happen again!)
A policy-storming session commenced, while Karl and I brainstormed on
methods to prevent such heinous acts. And it was good.
In short, what Karl has created is a system through which the janitors
automatically receive a forward copy of each article submitted to the
digest. Depending on what we do to the copy, the article will either be
posted, disappear in a puff of cyber-smoke (reserved for spam), be
forwarded back to the poster without being published (posting guideline
violations - for the most part, automatic and based on format anyway), or
be re-routed to the homebrew-request address (for those misguided
subscribe and unsubscribe requests). The steering committee has created
policy to which we will abide in exercising our newfound powers, and each
steering committee member will receive a "sanity check" copy of any nuked
postings to assure checks and balances are in place to avoid abuse of said
power. And it was good.
The rollout of this action was made immediate by our miss of the
owl@owlsnest spam in the 'gest yesterday. The article made it in after the
"point of no return" - that time in which neither Karl or I are
connected to the hbd.org site.
With this new system, that possibility still exists - "stuff" may slip in
between our last time online and the publication of the digest, but the
chances of our catching spam are greater since we do not have to be
connected to hbd.org in order to review the articles! Should the spammers
get smart enough to target the wee hours, the steering committe may
consider full moderation in which, rather than decide whether or not to
kill an article, the janitors will be deciding whether or not an article
will publish. It is my sincerest hope that it does not come to this.
The policy statement regarding this will be released to the digest and
posted to the hbd.org web site.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
(PS: No-one is making any money off of running the Digest.)
See ya!
Pat Babcock
pbabcock@oeonline.com
janitor@hbd.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:44:27 -0600
From: Ronald Babcock <rbabcock@rmii.com>
Subject: Fermenting in Corney Kegs / Insulating Mash Kegs
Bret A. Schuhmacher asked about fermenting in SS corney kegs.
I do all my secondary fermentation in kegs for my lagers. This permits me
to keep four kegs in my temperature controlled frig. I use one if the gas
connectors (in) with a barb attached to it. I use a short piece of tubing
to connect it to a fermentation lock which I wire to the side of the keg at
the top. This allowed me to keep an eye on the fermentation progress. This
process could be adapted to your setup. This solves two problems. First I
don't have the height in my frig to accommodate a taller setup and I don't
have to modify my lid. I also transfer the beer off the yeast by going from
the out side to the out side of the kegs with a short piece of tubing. It
is transferred under low pressure with CO2 and the serving keg is purged
with CO2 first which prevents any oxygen from contact with the beer. I
relieve the pressure a little at a time in the serving keg to equalize the
pressure and control the flow.
I couple of weeks ago I asked about insulating my keg to help maintain the
mash temperature and/or using a heat exchanger built into the HLT to gently
heat the wort and to maintain the temperature. I received a lot of
excellent ideas regarding insulation and Rick Calley is already using my
idea of the heat exchanger. I am in the process of converting my system to
use a heat exchanger in the HLT and insulating the converted keg. I am
waiting on SS couplings to be welded in the kegs. For more information look
at my web site at http://shell.rmi.net/~rbabcock/ it is still under
construction but should provide some good information on both of these
ideas as well as links to Rick's site and others.
Ronald Babcock
Denver, CO
rbabcock@rmii.com
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: corny fermenting
John_E_Schnupp@amat.com wrote:
>Subject: keg airlock
>
>In the HBD #2421 Bret had the following lament about corny keg fermenting:
>
>>I decided to try fermenting in a corny keg - it's indestructible, has
>>nice handles on it, you can get hydrometer readings and transfer using
>>CO2, etc. The only down-side is you can't count "glugs" from the
>>fermentation lock so you know something's happening.
>
>I'd like to suggest a humble solution: Sacrifice a lid and drill a hole in
>the center large enough to accommodate a drilled stopper.
Even better possibility: pull the dip tube out of the serving side (probably
doesn't matter which side) and put an airlock on there. Of corse the
airlock is too big to fit in the hole itself, so get a piece of tubing that
fits over the hole and whose inside diameter is small enough to fit a
second piece of tubing whose inside diameter is small enough to fit
the airlock. Just takes an inch or two of each tubing.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:15:30 -0400
From: Eric Tepe <tepee0@CHMCC.ORG>
Subject: oatmeal stout/rogue yeast
Hey All!
This is my first post so I will try to keep it short:
1. I want to make an Oatmeal Stout but when do I add the oats and
why? I have seen recipes with quick oats and steel cut oats which work
the best?
2. Is the yeast in the sediment of a bottle of Rogue Shakespeare Stout
the actual brewing yeast or just a conditioning yeast.
Thanks to all that respond, private e-mail ok.
Eric R. Tepe
tepee0@chmcc.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:09:03 -0700
From: smurman@best.com
Subject: fight SPAM/IBU calcs/headspace
We've discussed SPAM and it's problems on this list before. There is
a new organization which is proposing legislation to fight SPAM.
Currently, email has an "opt out" clause, meaning you can get off the
SPAM list at your request. Most would like this changed to an "opt
in" clause, meaning you would have to request to be SPAMed. See the
web site http://www.cauce.org for more information.
//
My little perl script for calculating IBU's presents the Rager and
Tinseth formulas side-by-side. When all is said and done, the two
methods give numbers that are pretty comparable.
http://www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy/scripts.html.
//
I had my first batch of bottle bombs a couple of weeks ago. There
were many contributing factors, but I think the most critical were my
own sloppy and lazy procedures, and the fill level of the bottles. I
went back to the archives and looked at what's been discussed about
headspace in the past. Both Steve Alexander and AlK did experiments
that showed that an underfilled bottle would develop more carbonation,
while an overfilled bottle would develop less carbonation (both
compared to a "standard" fill). I agree with both of these
statements. It was theorized that the yeast would die off under
pressure, and that was the cause of the over-filled bottles being less
carbonated. I'm not sure I agree with this theory.
When opening an under-filled bottle you will get a "gusher", meaning
that the bottle was under high pressure, and when you remove the top
you basically get a shockwave, which is what causes the gusher (same
thing as when you pop a Champagne cork). This implies that
under-filled bottles are actually under more pressure than over-filled
ones. When we cap a bottle we create a closed system. From my
limited memory of gaseous reactions this means that the amount fo CO2
in the headspace and the amount of CO2 in solution in the beer must be
in equilibrium. The bottles with the greater headspace has room for
CO2, and hence will develop a greater carbonation. The questions I
have are how can we explain the more priming sugar => more CO2 given
these facts? What does happen to the excess CO2 in a standard-filled
or over-filled bottles?
FWIW, the bottles I did have break were all 22oz. bottles. I think
from now on, when I'm working with high priming rates, I'll stick to
the 12oz. and 500ml bottles.
SM
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:46:45 -0700
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Rager vs. Tinseth
> From: Jason Henning <huskers@cco.net>
> u% = .005*t^2 + .18*t +4.25 where t is the minutes in the boil.
>
> Works good between 0 and 45 minutes to *estimate Rager's table*.
>
> All seemed ok but it's the wrong curve! This isn't how I understand u%.
> I think u% is a curve thats has declining growth rate. For instance,
> hops added for an hour, we extract 2/3 of the bitterness in the first 20
> minute. We're looking for a curve that is steep for the first 15 minutes
> or so. then starting to flatten out and finally leveling out at about
> 30% around the 45 to 60 minute mark. Ragers table is just opposite of
> this between 0 and 45 minutes. His curve is concave up, needs to be
> concave down (convex up?).
I am very impressed that the Tinseth curves are empirically derived, in
seeming contrast to all the other ones out there. But let me offer
my experience with them.
I started using Rager's numbers when they came out. I found that I
was underbittering so I scaled up his entire curve somewhat. This
system worked for me for 5 years. Recently I have started to try
the Tinseth numbers with appropriate scaling (I looked back at
old recipes that worked and used his curves to estimate IBUs and
compared to how the beers tasted). They worked fine for a few
beers until I made a Columbus-based IPA. Since this beer had a
lot of Columbus added at 13 and 20', it is a stringent test of the
shape of the first part of the curve.
If the curve stays low, then increases starting around 20', then
levels off (sigmoidal or "s" shaped) as Rager's numbers show, the
late additions are predicted to have a small contribution and
you would use more early hops.
If the curve starts rising quite quickly at the start, leveling off
later (as Jason wants and Tinseth shows), the late additions are
predicted to have a big effect and little early hops are used.
I used Tinseth's numbers and came up with a very underbittered IPA.
Hence I conclude that his curve rises too fast at the start and
that something more like Rager's shape is good. As far as I can
tell, the shape of Tinseth's curve is assumed, not measured, which
suggests to me that he has done his measurements with early additions.
Mine is only one data point from one person. Can anyone else who uses
his numbers look back through his/her notes for a beer with a lot of
high alpha hops added late and see what effect was had?
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:15:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: palmer@San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: Efficiency of ceramic stove tops
I have been doing 2 gal. boils for 5 gal batches due to my
small (2.5 gal) pot and perceived limitations of my electric
range.
I would like to move to 10 gal batches by doing a 4-5 gal
boil and topping off with sufficient water to get me to
10 gals. I would then ferment in 2 separate buckets/carboys
and use different yeast in each.
My electric range is one of those smooth ceramic top
electric jobs with somewhat less efficiency than a conventional
electric and certainly less than gas.
Does anyone have any experience with the maximum volume
I can expect to bring to a boil in a reasonable time on
this range using the largest burner. I currently can get
2 gals. boiling in about 30 min (with 7# of extract) starting
with hot tap water.
Will I need a heavy duty gas burner to boil 5 gals.
effectively?
Thanks for any feedback...
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:07:05 -0500 (EST)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc@mcimail.com>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #2422 (May 20, 1
HBD-
OK, I think it's time for AlK (NOT Alex Kohrt or Al Kaline, but Al Korzonas)
to re-educate us on how to punish spammers:
===Web Promotions=====Press Releases=====Link Exchanges=========
Owl's Eye Productions, Inc.
260 E. Main Street
Brewster, NY 10509
Ph: 914-278-4933 Fx: 914-278-4507 E-mail: owlseye@owlsnest.com
Deserves our wrath.
Also, regarding Wyeast 1388, Belgian Strong Ale, I got two different stories-
A yeast site (not that kind) described it as nuetral, pretty much like 1056,
but somebody from the HBD (sorry, forgot whom) said it was spicy and fruity.
The latter makes more sense to me, why produce a nuetral BSA yeast?
I got no comments about my attempt at creating a Belgian Invert Candi Sugar-
boiling sucrose with honey and phosphoric acid to 150 C. Dave? Al? Alex?
Scott? Any observations?
Eric Fouch
The Politically Correct Bent Dick YactoBrewery in
Kentwood, MI
- --Boundary (ID i.g+01I_J3BOEU,GJG9-1VV9.9DGI1IG)--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 97 00:01:35 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella@msn.com>
Subject: mixed yeasts, not infections though.
Hello to all, Dana Brigham asks,
>What is the concensus on combining strains of yeast for
>fermentation - as in combining different strains of ale yeast in
>order to get specific characteristics associated with the yeast
>being combined? I know that Wyeast does sell some packages which
>are combinations of yeast (like their 'mild' German wheat (sorry,
>don't recall the number) yeast which uses a mild ale strain and a
>traditional wiezen strain) - so it must work in some cases. I
>don't think I'm crazed enough (YET!) to try combining ale and
>lager yeasts - but does anyone have any experience, warnings,
>anecdotes, triumphs to share?
It is done quite often in Europe, including one brewery that claims to use
12 strains in their brew. I made a cream ale using Yeast Lab's Canadian
Ale in the primary for 5 days and then transferring to a secondary with a
starter of Wyeast Danish Lager for 7 days, then lagering for 3 weeks. It
turned out pretty good. 4 months ago I made a Belgian Trippel with Wyeast
Belgian Abbey 2 in the primary, a combination of two high gravity ale yeasts
in the secondary, and a couple of ounces of fresh BA2 in the bottling bucket.
Even though it is still quite young, and was mistakenly put in the Belgian
Strong category instead of Belgian Triple, it took a silver medal 3 weeks ago.
I think you should go ahead and experiment with it. You will not hurt
anything,
and may even discover the next great blend. Let us know how it turns out.
(Let's see, a Weizen yeast with my Porter......oh nooooo)
Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN
ray-estrella@msn.com
*******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.*******
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2423, 05/21/97
*************************************
-------
