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HOMEBREW Digest #2406
HOMEBREW Digest #2406 Mon 28 April 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
hbd and search engines (Tumarkin)
Brewshop local to Parsippany, NJ (MIchael Cukrow)
Mash efficiency and pt/lb/g (Jason Henning)
Re: Dry hopping -- sterilisation. ("Braam Greyling")
Extraction points and %s ("Raymond Estrella")
slotted manifold/H&W book (Barrowman)
Early use of hops ("Ted Major")
Part 1, S.Claus, nippy questions ("David R. Burley")
Part 2, temp holds,reading and reporting, insulating ("David R. Burley")
Saliva brews,Wyeast 3942, gravity loss, Marris-Otter ("David R. Burley")
Widmer Yeast (Dean Larson)
Canning wort, CP fillers, CF chiller use (Rob Kienle)
Dry Hopping - Hop Sterlisation ("Bryan L. Gros")
Oak species (Heiner Lieth)
re:dry hopping (Charles Burns)
HSA during sparge/lauter ("Houseman, David L")
Request for Kegging Information (BernardCh)
Yeast Culturing Media Recipe? ("George Schamel")
Part 2 - Questioning Saccharification Temperature Range (Charles Burns)
Casks, Chips ("Rob Moline")
Dark Malts in Mash ..When to add ??? (Jim Wallace)
10 gal. GOTT False Bottom for RIMS ("John Slavik")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:54:49 -0400
From: Tumarkin@ix.netcom.com
Subject: hbd and search engines
Chris Ragaisis writes:
>About a month or so ago, someone on this list posted a web site where
>we could pick up a FileMaker Pro-based brewing calculator to be used on
>the Mac. I grabbed the file, but it was only compatible with a later
>version of FM Pro than I had. Since then I've upgraded my FM Pro, but
>I've deleted the database file. Could someone please tell me where to
>find it so I can download another? None of the standard web search
>engines have been any help.
Try going to http://brew.oeonline.com - our own Homebrew Digest web site
(thanks Pat and all!!), there is a search engine specifically for our
Digest. It works great. I used it recently to check hops sources that I
recalled being mentioned in earlier digests.
You might also take a look at EchoSearch - http://www.echosearch.com -
it is a program that checks 6 or 8 of the leading net search engines at
one time and gives you the results. It is downloadable for free
(although it is shareware, and as such they want you to pay for it if
you like it). I just started using it so I'm not really familiar yet
with all it's features but so far it seems great. (no affiliation, just
satisfied yada).
I've got a batch of American Amber Ale in the primary now, it's real
hoppy &
looking pretty good. I used Wyeast 1056 in it. I was planning on putting
a
batch of porter onto the yeast from it when I move it into the secondary
this
weekend. Now I'm thinking about turning the porter into a barleywine. I
haven't
done a barleywine yet. I'm wondering if 1056 is a good choice to stand
up to the
high alcohol of the barleywine. If it's not a good choice, what would
you suggest? Thanks in advance,
Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 22:28:53 -0400
From: MIchael Cukrow <mcukrow@nac.net>
Subject: Brewshop local to Parsippany, NJ
There is a brewshop in Morristown, NJ called Hop & Vine which is very
helpful. I am currently on my second batch and they have been very
helpful every step of the way.
A question for everyone out there - I have recently seen something
called the Brewtap in a book which basically allows you to keep the
carboy upside down and has a cap on it with two tubes - one goes to the
air on top to release any pressure, the other allows all of the trub to
drain from the bottom. Has anyone tried this device? Does it produce
beer that is as good as two step fermentation?
Thanks for your help.
Mike Cukrow
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:15:52 -0700
From: Jason Henning <no.spam.huskers@coo.net>
Subject: Mash efficiency and pt/lb/g
Jorge Blasig asks about mash efficiency in terms of percent
and points per pound per gallon. First you'll do the math on
you're recipe. Second, you'll get readings after
mashing/sparging. Then the ratios of these numbers give us
the numbers.
For the recipe, you'll need to know the potential extract of
each of the malts. Of instance, British two-row is 38 (by the
way, I express gravities in terms 38 instead of 1.038 for
ease of calculations). This means your sg would be 38 if you
could get 100% extract from one pound of malt in one gallon
of water (pts/lb/g). Take the recipe:
4 lbs British two-row (38)
2 lbs Belgian Munich (38)
1 American soft-wheat (40)
If we take points times pounds and total, we get (4*38) +
(2*38) + (1*40) = 268. This is of course the at 100%
extraction.
Unrelated to these calculation, in a five gallon batch, 268/5
= 53.6 -> 1.054 sg. If you get 80% with a similar mash
schedule and recipe, your could predicted the og, 54*.80 =
43.2 -> 1.043.
That's the long and hard part. Now go mash, sparge, measure
gravity and volume, boil, measure gravity and volume, pitch
yeast (optional) and come back. Let say you got 1.029 with 7
gallons boiled down to 5 gallons of 1.040. If you take
gravities times volumes you get the actual total points, 29*7
= 203 and 40*5 = 200. These number should be the same in
theory. They seldom are do to shrinkage, wort lost to hops,
hydro readings, spillage, samples.
Using the actual total points divided by the 100% extract
potential will give the mash tun efficiency, 200/268 = .746
-> 75%.
Again using the actual total points and divide by the number
of pounds of grain, 200/7 = 28.6 -> 29 pt/lb/g.
Work through another recipe and I'll make a point about
pt/lb/g vs mash efficiency.
5.5 lb American Rye (30)
2.75 lb Lager malt (six-row) (31)
5 gallons of 1.045
Pt/lb/g -> 45*5 / (5.5+2.75) = 27.3 -> 27 pt/lb/g
Mash efficiency -> (5*45) / [ (30*5.5) + (2.75*31) ] = 89.9
-> 90%
So the two recipes were about a point different when
expressed as pt/lb/g but the efficiency for the rye was 90%
as compared to 75%. So it important to keep in mind the
extract potential of the grains.
Zymurgy's _The_Great_Grain_Issue_, has an excellent list of
malts and extract numbers. There are several books that have
list as well. Be sure to ask your hb shop if they have the
numbers from the maltster.
Cheers,
Jason Henning (huskers@cco.net)
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Olympia, Washington - "It's the water"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:39:31 +200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling@azona.co.za>
Subject: Re: Dry hopping -- sterilisation.
Anthony wrote:
>>>>>
I added the secondary hops in a muslin bag after hop sparging, but
prior to cooling. The wort was at roughly 80'C so I thought the bugs
would die. I pitched the yeast starter at 25'C, but by the following
morning I could smell the wild yeast. I left the beer for a week in
case, but it was definitely infected.
How do you sterilise hops for dry hopping?
>>>>>>>>
Anthony,
It sounds to me as if your infection has a different source. I would
say you should check your whole brewing procedure for possible
infections. Normal dry hopping should not cause infections in my
opinion.
Hope this helps.
Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer
Azona(Pty)Ltd
tel +27 12 6641910
fax +27 12 6641393
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 97 00:22:37 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella@msn.com>
Subject: Extraction points and %s
Hello to all,
Jorge Blasig asks,
>I would appreciate if any of you can send an article explaining
>efficiency and extraction calculations in points, %, etc. and how these
>expressions can be related to each other.
Using 2-row Barley as an example:
2-row has the potential to give 36 points per pound of grain, in one
gallon of water. In other words if you could get 100% extraction
efficiency mashing that one pound of malt your gravity would be 1.036
Here is another way of looking at it as you get ready for your jump
into all-grain. If you use 9 lb of 2-row and collect 6. gallons of wort,
which you then boiled down to 5. gal., you have the possibility of achieving
a gravity of 1.065, (36*9=324, /5=64.8) But in reality we can only expect
to get around 75% efficiency, so your actual gravity will most likely be 1.049
(65*.75=48.75) As you use your system and take your gravity readings
you can figure out your extraction percentages and use those to estimate
how much malt will be needed to achieve the target gravity of your brews.
Different malts have different point contributions, so you will need to hit
the
books and magazines to make a list. Different mashing techniques will give
different numbers also. I brewed last week with some friends, and we used
a Sabco with a false bottom for 18 gal. of Pils, and got a 92% extraction
rate. Then used a cooler mash/lauter tun for 20 gal. of Belgian Wit and
only got 75%. Good luck with your brewing.
Jim Thomas also talks about efficiency,
>Generally, you can measure efficiency in a couple of ways, 1) by taking
>a reading before the boil or 2) after the boil--thus accounting for
>kettle losses.
>I'm guessing many brewers are taking measurements after the boil and are
>looking for Dave Miller-like 32 ppg efficiency and getting say, 25.
>Then they run through the gambit of various fixes; mash ph, sparge water
>temp, sparge rates, crush, etc. They probably make miniscule
>improvements. And they're probably frustrated about their efficiency
>rates.
>Here's the point. When Zymurgy did their field test of mash/lautering
>systems in "The Great Grain Issue," they measured efficiency BEFORE the
>boil. And as I recall, in their findings they achieved efficiency of 30
>to 34 ppg on a wide range of systems
I am not sure that I understand what you are saying, how can you measure
efficiency *before* the boil? You could sparge 10 pounds of grain with 30
gal. of water and have 1.012 wort at 100% extraction rate. But then would have
to boil it 25 hours to get it to batch size. I sparge until I have the volume
I want,
or until the gravity of my runnings gets to low, boil, and then check my O.G.,
using that number to check my efficiency. Am I missing something?
Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN
ray-estrella@msn.com
*******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.*******
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:27:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barrowman@aol.com
Subject: slotted manifold/H&W book
If I am making a mash tun out of a cooler with a slotted manifold in the
bottom, do the slots face up or down and why?
Thanks to the person who put that funky old book on the web. Too bad it is
out of print. It is very interesting.
Laura
Charlotte NC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:38:14 -0400
From: "Ted Major"<tmajor@exrhub.exr.com>
Subject: Early use of hops
Mike Hughes <mikehu@synopsys.com> asks about early references to hops.
Saint Hildegard of Germany mentions the preservative effect of hops on beer
in the 11th C, and in England, Bald's _Leechbook_ mentions medicinal uses
of hops sometime in the 9th or 10th century. For a much more detailed
argument of hop usage as early as the 8th century, check out Ann Hagens's
book, which makes a strong case and cites a number of original sources.
TITLE: A second handbook of Anglo-Saxon food & drink : production
& distribution / Ann Hagen.
AUTHOR: Hagen, Ann.
PUBLISHED: Frithgarth, Hockwold cum Wilton, Norfolk, England : Anglo-
Saxon Books, 1995.
DESCRIPTION: iii, 409 p. ; 21 cm.
OTHER TITLES: Handbook of Anglo-Saxon food and drink
Second handbook of Anglo-Saxon food and drink
SUBJECTS: Anglo-Saxons--Social life and customs.
Food habits--England--History.
Civilization, Anglo-Saxon.
England--Social life and customs--To 1066.
NOTES: "Companion volume to A Handbook of Anglo-Saxon Food :
processing and consumption, published in 1992"--P. 1
Includes bibliographical references (p. 367-381) and
index.
ISBN: 1898281122 (pbk.) :
LOC call number: DA152.2.H29 1995
Cheers,
Ted Major, Athens, Georgia
tmajor@exr.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:32:16 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Part 1, S.Claus, nippy questions
Brewsters:
S. Claus, I tried to respond to your questions by return mail but my
e-mail was rejected. Please send me the correct address. The 34th Street
Address didn't work either.<| {8-)>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
James Layton points out:
>Dave Burley writes:
>>are caused by poor milling. Pass the malt through a nip of about 0.008
In.
>>and again through 0.006 in. Measure the nip with a spark plug gauge.
>Maybe I don't understand the terminology (sorry, I'm from the South).
>Is the "nip" the gap between the rollers? If so, .008 inches seems a
>Bit tight. My "pre-adjusted" roller mill has a much wider gap than this
>(I haven't measured it but it looks to be around .050 inches). Two passes
>Through my mill give a pretty fine crush. Please clarify.
Sorry about that, I should have looked at my notebook The numbers I gave
Are are ten times too small. They should read 0.08in for the first pass and
0.06 in for the second pass. Thanks for pointing this out.
The idea behind this is to simulate a 4 roll mill as closely as possible to
Get a commercial crush. The first pass cracks the malt but does not really
Crush it too much and removes most of the husks whole. Some of the husk
Remains whole but attached to the cracked grain. The second pass removes
Most of the cracked malt from the husk and crushes the malt finer.
Basically you will get a whole husk, fine, low flour grist with this
Method.
To use this same method with other malts which have different sized
Grains, close the nip and then open it slowly until you just have the grain
Feeding into the nip reliably. Crush all the grain at this nip. With
Barley malt this is about 0.08 in as I measure it, other malts are
different, but
The principle is the same. Then close the nip to about 0.06 - 0.055 in.
and repeat it. Unfortunately a dual pass or even a single pass through a
non-adjustable mill, likely 0.055 in., will not give you the same results.
I know from personal experience.
It was finally when I said "There has to be a better way" that I developed
This technique which works amazingly well for such a simple modification.
It also cuts down total milling time compared to a single pass through a
narrow
Nip, believe it or not.
BTW I used to work in a plant that used roller mills and the separation
Of the rollers at the minimum distance between the surfaces of the rollers
Was called the "nip". Mebee it's Yankee tawlk but I doubt it. Maybe it is
related to the rubber,
Ink and plastic industries where it was the standard usage. As AlK points
out "gap"
Could be used, but I somehow associate that with a negative thing, except
In spark plugs, where a gap is good if it just right.
- --------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:32:23 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Part 2, temp holds,reading and reporting, insulating
Brewsters:
Mr. Rich points out:
I said:
>> For highly modified malts like the British Pale Ale malts it is not
>> necessary to hold in the proteinase regions below 140F, as this will
Often
>> be detrimental to the head forming capabilities.
He said:
>While a Pale Ale malt base won't benefit as much as a Pale or Pils base,
>I would like to know how a rest in upper proteolytic temps (132-135F,
>55-57C) could possibly be detrimental to head forming capabilities.
>High molecular weight proteins which are degraded here can only benefit
>The beer's head, body and chill haze.
Well, it was plain stupid what I said if you only confine the temperature
Range to the mid-130's. I knew what I meant but didn't express it well at
All. And as you pointed out it is misleading. I was trying to make a
point
that the more highly modified malts do
Not need these lower temperature holds as the work has been done at the
Maltsters. As you know the British brewers typically practice the single
Temperature infusion mash to this day and can get away with it only because
The maltster has prepared the malts. He is very careful to select his
Barley for low nitrogen and carefully malts the barley with a lower
Temperature profile to guard against developing chill haze while providing
Good head forming proteins.. Holding in the proteinase ranges below 140F
( I include both 122 and 131F holds) risks modifying these protein derived
Factors such as amino acid content and mid-weight proteins. Also, I
Suspect too long a hold in the 131F region might lead to an increased
Chance of chill haze, but as you point out it probably wouldn't reduce the
Head forming properties.
A little more on this subject is the proteolytic enzyme content in British
Malt compared to Lager malts , according to DeClerk ( 1950's info) is 0.6
:1, so for a given set of holds it would presumably take nearly twice as
Long for the British malt to have the same amount of protein degraded at
The brewery. DeClerk also makes the point that the majority of the protein
Conversion takes place at the maltsters ( 1:0.6) in British malts and the
Majority of the carbohydrate conversion takes place at the brewers (1:10).
I have to strongly disagree with your comment about how glad we should be
That Charlie or anyone is reporting an experiment he carried out. A bad
experiment
Reported is really worse than no experiment. A single uncontrolled
Experiment which purports to challenge years of experience by brewing
Professionals could only be interpreted so by someone who is stupid or
Doesn't know the basis for the science. I prefer to believe Charlie is not
Stupid ( in fact, I know it), just doesn't know the scientific basis for
All the enzyme holds. There is nothing wrong with that since he is trying
to correct it.
I suggested he get up to speed by reading more about
This stuff first and THEN he can challenge dogma with experiments, which,
Like you, I also encourage.
- ------------------------------------------------------
Alk writes:
>Charley writes:
>And you can bet I'll taste the mash during protein rest to see if it is
>also Sweet at that low temp.
>Dave pretty much summed it up (although the crack about reading more
>Could have been worded a bit more nicely) and I pretty much agree with
Well I probably shouldn't have made that remark in public, since this
medium
doesn't let you see the smile on my face and since you nor
Anyone else knows that Charlie and I have been having off-line, wide
-ranging discussions for some weeks on these subjects with the goal being
To straighten out his understanding of the various holds, etc. This was an
Extension of a teasing comment I made to Charlie off-line about his seeming
Propensity to mis-read both SteveA's and my epistles and to publish this
Mis-understanding. However, I was serious
About his need to expand his reading of serious authors - see above.
I have checked since
My comment was published and he took it in the fun way I intended it.
Sorry to raise your concern. I am sincerely glad we all are watching our
(And other's) gentlemanly behavior here. Thanks for the comment and the
Chance to explain myself.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
On the subject of insulating pots and converted kegs, I built a break down
Box of six pieces of 1 " thick stiff polystyrene foam house insulation.
The pieces are taped together. I put the mash kettle on the table holding
The bottom of the box. I then "build" the box around the kettle with tape
on the corners. This way I can have a small box for better insulation and
Don't have to lift the kettle in and out of a permanent box. It typically
Holds the temperature within 2 degrees for 30 or more minutes. This box
When broken down is also easier to store.The table is the same height as
The burner and I can move the kettle without much strain. This is of
Course for a 5 gallon batch and doesn't weigh that much. I have been
Tempted to build a thermal insulating jacket which would fit around the
Kettle or converted keg with long rectangular pieces of foam the height of
The kettle and about 3 or 4 inches wide held together by rope. The long
Edges will have to beveled to get a tight fit. The jacket can be tied on
During a hold and removed when heating. If you try it let us know. I
Concur that bubble stuff is not really effective as an insulator - at least
Compared to the polystyrene foam. I guess it is because it is only one
Layer thick and convection inside the bubbles moves heat to the very thin
Walls of the bubble.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:32:19 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Saliva brews,Wyeast 3942, gravity loss, Marris-Otter
Brewsters:
Scott Dornsett says in response to AlK's comment that saliva has amylase in
it:
>COOL! So if I am having troubles with my conversion I can just spit alot
i>nto my mash?
Yep! Chicha, made from corn in South America, Africa from a number of
grains and in the south Pacific from taro root the starch is (used to be)
converted before fermentation by chewing and spitting into a communal pot.
This was typically a job for women and for some ceremonial drinks it was a
job reserved for virgins. These cloudy drinks are often consumed within 24-
48 hours and are low in alcohol.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Timusiak says:
>Greetings all...I was curious about whether anyone has had any
>experience with the new Wyeast Belgian Wheat strain, 3942 -
As part of my program of exploring warm fermentations, I used it in a brew
consisting of Rye malt, wheat malt and pils malt. I did a pseudo-decoction
before the mashing with some of these to reduce the viscosity of the rye
mash and develop some malty character. It produced a really nice clear,
dark brown beer with Eugenol (clove - like) character, but not mouth
numbing. My wife, very difficult to please with beers, desribed it as
"smooooth!" and it did have a nice full mouth with an interesting
character. I also fermented it at around 70F. I would use it again this
summer without hesitation.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Scott asks:
> what else is robbing me of gravity points between the
>beginning of the boil and the end?
Hot break.
- --------------------------------------------------------
all types of grain with great success, until we used Marris-Otter.
Different strains of barley can produce different physical physical
characteristics in the malt. Perhaps Marris-Otter produces a mealy malt
and your milling procedures milled it too fine.
- --------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:19:03 -0700
From: Dean Larson <Dean.Larson@gonzaga.edu>
Subject: Widmer Yeast
Nicholas asks:
>Does anyone know if the yeast in a bottle of Widmer Hefeweizen is the
>fermentation yeast, or actually a bottle conditioning yeast? I'd think
>it's the fermentation yeast, but my starter fermented out *very*
>clear...could it be because the starter is a DME starter, and not American
>Wheat beer wort?
There's an article in the Jan 1997 issue of Brew Your Own, "Charting the New
American Wheat Beer" by Jeff Frane in which the following statement appears:
"Widmer, for example, uses a German top-fermenting strain from a Dusseldorf
alt brewery (try culturing some from the bottle) that emphasizes malt."
Without coming right out and saying it, this seems to imply that the yeast
in a Widmer Hefeweizen bottle is the primary fermentation yeast. I've
plated out some yeast recovered from a Widmer and have it stored on a slant,
but have yet to brew with it.
Skol,
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:42:57 -0500
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle@interaccess.com>
Subject: Canning wort, CP fillers, CF chiller use
On wort canning, Scott says...
> If you don't have a pressure canner, and you insist on saving your
> wort, I would suggest just pouring it into a 22oz. bottle (after it's
> been cooled), capping it, stick it in the fridge or freezer, and then
> re-boiling it when you need it (and cooling, pitching, etc.).
This, for me, was the bottom line on the canning/botulism thread that
seems dangerously close to being resurrected. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but the whole issue seemed to *boil* down to refrigerating or freezing
the wort, and possibly reboiling it the next time around. Thus, as long
as you refrigerate or freeze the wort, the risk of botulism is nill and
any other resident nasties will be sent back to their maker via the
reboiling. Personally the last thing my kitchen needs is another device
like a pressure cooker. Although I've got to admit that I find it just
as easy to boil up a couple of cups of starter wort using DME as it is
to reboil *canned* wort, and usually go that route.
On CP fillers, Bryan says...
> Why do people tend to say that these things take three hands? Mine
> (Braukunst) takes one hand to hold it and one hand to turn the valves.
> First I open the pressure valve, flush the bottle and pressurize it.
> Then I close the pressure valve and, with the same hand (look ma,
> one hand!) I open the beer valve.
As I'm the one who originally posted the question, I thought I'd throw
in an update on my responses. I've had several people write in as users
of the Braukunst model, one Melvico user, and yesterday Ray mentioned
the Hoptech model. All have been satisfied with their respective
decisions though some modifications (adding a needle valve here, a new
stopper there) have also been mentioned. I'm still intrigued by the
Hoptech design, incorporating a dual valve system for controlling
liquid/gas flow, however, and would be interested in hearing from other
users of that system.
On CF chiller use, Richard wrote...
> Just to be safe, I start the flow of cold water before starting the
> flow of hot wort or water. (Although flooding my mouth with
> boiling water would probably be an effective method of pre-siphon
> sanitation...)
I should emphasize that I built my chiller with about 20' of copper
tubing inside a 3/4" garden hose. Given a couple feet of racking hose on
the top and bottom of the unit, the water's got a long ways to go before
hitting my mouth, and I've only got to get the stuff up and over about a
foot of hose to get the siphon going. Anyone will a smaller system
should be much more careful.
The system I'm using now, however, has drain valves on the bottom of the
vessels so I don't have to mess with any of that anymore. A highly
recommended alternative, which leaves one's mouth (sanitary or not)
conveniently free to suck down more homebrew.
- --
Cheers4beers,
Rob Kienle
Chicago, IL
rkienle@interaccess.com
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: Dry Hopping - Hop Sterlisation
Antony Hayes <anthayes@geocities.com> wrote:
>My first attempt at dry hopping was a disaster, as wild yeasts on the
>hops got going before my Gervin yeast, and spolied the brew.
>
>I added the secondary hops in a muslin bag after hop sparging, but prior
>to cooling. The wort was at roughly 80'C so I thought the bugs would
>die. I pitched the yeast starter at 25'C, but by the following morning I
>could smell the wild yeast. I left the beer for a week in case, but it
>was definitely infected.
As I'm sure you've heard from others, most people don't "sterilize"
their hops when dry hopping. However, what you have described
is not what is meant by "dry hopping".
To add "finishing hops", which contribute hop aroma in a similar
way to dry hopping, we add the hops before cooling. The near
boiling wort will sterilize them. Much of their aroma, however, will
be lost during primary fermentation with the CO2 produced.
To add more hop aroma, we "dry hop" after primary fermentation
when the airlock has settled down. The best way to dry hop is
to put your hops, preferably whole hops (hop flowers), in a sanitized
carboy. Then rack your beer from the primary fermenter on top
of the hops and let sit for a week or two. The alcohol and low pH
in the beer after primary fermentation will help retard the growth of
any unwanted wild yeast.
- Bryan Gros
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Music City Brewers, Nashville TN
http://www.theporch.com/~homebrew1
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:27:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heiner Lieth <lieth@telis.org>
Subject: Oak species
I've been a bit confused by some messages dealing with the oak used to make
oak barrels. There are hundreds of species of oak and I had always assumed
that "French oak" was one of these species and that american-grown French
oak was slightly different from french-grown French oak. Can anyone tell me
which species of oak are the "French oak" and "American oak" that we're
talking about in the cask thread?
I do know that "English oak" is a species that can be found in the US, so
this is not as silly as it will seem to some of you. (The same books that I
found that in, did not list "American oak" or "French oak" as distinct species).
I would assume that you would not simply pick any oak for making barrels.
(That would be like saying any metal which is mostly iron is good enough for
making kegs.) Any clues as to which species are used?
Heiner.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 13:16:44 -0700
From: Charles Burns <cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us>
Subject: re:dry hopping
I hbd 2405, Anthony asked about sterilizing hops...
I've never sterilized hops and I dry hop all the time (well not ALL the
time). Do it in the secondary. Let the primary fermentation finish
because dry hopping is mostly for Aroma and the C02 generated during the
primary fermentation will pretty much drive off any aroma gained by the
dry hop.
You might also forget the bag. Use whole hops, drop them into a
sanitized secondary fermenter and then rack the beer right on top of
them. A muslin bag can carry just as many bad bacteria as any hop might
carry, probably more. If you must use a bag - sanitize it too.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:52:40 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman@unisys.com>
Subject: HSA during sparge/lauter
Dave Draper says:
Finally, in my setup, the main source of HSA during sparging that
remained
was when the first runnings were returned to the lauter tun. Mine had a
depth such that I was forced to pour it from 20 or 30 cm height onto a
saucer atop the grain bed. I am sure there was some oxidation there;
Norm
Pyle indicated in these pages at the time that in many setups, the
region
just above the grain bed might be rich in water vapor emanating from the
grain, so that there would be less oxidation than if there were no
steam.
Although this is sound in principle, in my setup I feel that this did
not
help all that much because I could still detect some of the longer-term
effects of HSA, although the situation was much improved by taking the
other steps outlined above.
This is interesting and one I hadn't thought about but will consider.
Additionally, I use a rotating arm to deliver spage water to the top of
the lauter tun which in my case is a 10gal Gott cooler. What would the
implications of aerating the spage water futher (since it hadn't been
boiled, only heated to about 180oF (to account for 10oF temp drop)) as
it is delivered via the rotating sparge arm? Does using aerated sparge
water have any HSA affects or not since it's then not the wort that's
splashed but the sparge water that becomes wort as it is mixed with wort
that's in the lauter tun?
Dave Houseman
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:35:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: BernardCh@aol.com
Subject: Request for Kegging Information
Greeting all.
I'm just about to take delivery on a kegging system. Not knowing much about
kegging, can anyone point me to either a cyber-site or old fashioned printed
works describing the basics of kegging and maintaining kegs. I'm looking for
info like how to hook-up, hose length, cleaning, connecting multiple kegs to
one CO2 bottle, how to refurbish use kegs etc.
I visited the Brewery web site and did find a very basic article and the
force carbonation tables. Looking for more detail than exists there
Thanks in advance
Chuck
BernardCh@aol.com
Music City Brewers - Nashville, TN - Music City USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 22:04:47 -0600
From: "George Schamel" <gschamel@conifer.net>
Subject: Yeast Culturing Media Recipe?
Hello Brewers,
I have a question about the proper recipe for making your own yeast
culturing plates.
The first set of plates I poured worked like a charm. That was using Yeast
Culture
Kit Co. prepared dry culturing media pressure cooked with water and poured
into
plates. The last set of plates I poured I used Brewers Resource wort agar
cooked and
poured as before. But my streaked yeast samples have not grown.
Did I need to add some DME to the agar? If so, how much? How about yeast
nutrient?
Any other suggestions?
TIA
George Schamel High Altitude Homebrew
10000 ft and still brewin'
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 07:05 PDT
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Part 2 - Questioning Saccharification Temperature Range
Well, now I *DO* know what starch tastes like, **bleaaahhh**! I posted the
results of my poorly designed and misguided experiment a week ago in this
forum. I mashed a pound of pale ALE malt at 135F-130F for an hour just to
see what how much sugar would be created. The OG of 2 quarts was 1.036
giving 18 points of something per pound per gallon. I pitched a packet of
Windsor dried yeast and fermented it out.
The resulting beer was still very cloudy, and I assume this was starch haze,
I didn't do an iodine test. The FG was 1.010 or 5 points per pound per
gallon. The yeast supposedly won't eat the starch (otherwise we wouldn't
have to convert it to sugar would we) so that tells me that I got 13 points
per pound/gallon of fermentable sugars. The typical yield with my equipment
(a real kludge of stuff) and my process (we could talk all day about that)
is 26-27 points/pound/gallon. This means that I was able to get half of the
sugar I usually get. And all I did was a long rest at 130-135F.
The main reason I did the experiment was to find out if ALL the starch would
be converted at these low temperatures to very simple sugars. A lot of its
apparently, but not all of it obviously. My next question is, of the starch
that is still in the mash (and now the beer), if I had raised the
temperature to a normal saccharification range, what type of sugar would
have been created? If I had for instance raised the temp to 158F, would I
have gotten dextrins? I'm of the opinion that dextrins add a lot to the
"body" and "mouthfeel" of beer and without them, we get a pretty thin
result. I've read that others believe that body and mouthfeel are really
proteins, not sugars. I wonder what sort of proteins and potential sugars
actually were left in the mash (yes that's an invitation for speculation).
But, enough experimentation. I wanna make some REAL beer. A batch of porter
this afternoon and a double batch tomorrow of Pale Ale and Strawberry
Blonde. The wife is going out of town to a conference for a couple of days
and I'm going to brew, brew brew! And this morning I'm kegging my first
American Brown. I made it with a 135F rest for 5 minutes, took a 1/3
decoction and then rested for an hour at 158F. Thanks to all of you who
commented on my recipe, I think its a winner.
Charley (still decocting Pale ALE malt) in N. California
PS - I WILL go back and reread Noonan and Miller before doing any more
experiments, but I'm going to go ahead and try Dave B's suggestion of
holding at 145F while taking a decoction. It seems to be agreed that 145F is
pretty harmless as a holding temp while the decoction going on. Should be a
porter to munch on
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 97 14:11:46 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer@kansas.net>
Subject: Casks, Chips
The Jethro Bloody Gump Report
Casks, Chips...
Tim DiPlacido of "Barrels, Chips, Etc." has sent a price list...American
Oak 1 Gallon Toasted $47.00, Waxed $39, 2 G Toasted $51, Waxed 43, 3 G
Toasted (T) $61, Waxed (W) $51, 5G T $74, W $61, 10G T $89, W $72, 15G T
$107, W $88, 20G T 125 W $104, 30G T $135, W $ 110.
French Oak 7.5G T $155, 15G T $205, 30G T $ 315.
American 'Quercus Alba Oak from Missouri and Arkansas. Quarter Sawn and
Naturally Air Dried Toast Level Medium. Delivery 4-5 weeks.
Oak Chips 1-49 pounds $1.95/lb American, $3.50/lb Hungarian, $4.00/lb
French..Thumbnail size or Larger, Toast level Light and Medium, No minimum
order required.
Whiskey Barrels 50-55 Gallons1-10 Quantity $40.00 Charred $65.00
De-Charred.
Spouts German 4 inch $6.25, ^ inch $6.75
Call (216)-531-0494 to order.
No afilliation, etc.
Jethro
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:01:30 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
Subject: Dark Malts in Mash ..When to add ???
I am brewing a Porter this week and have a question on when to add the
darker grains to my Mash...
My GrainBill will consist of:
...To be mashed.... Brit Pale, Peat Smoked, Wheat, (Vienna/Munich?)
...To be steeped... Dark Crystal, Chocolate ,Black
I am planning a single infusion mashIn @95F and conversion @155-6F
When would be a good time to add the nomash grains? How Long?
My intention is to extract the color and flavor (produced in malting) from
these grains.
Any comments on doing a separate steep and then adding this back to the
grain bed before mashout or sparging?
________________________________________
JIM WALLACE ___ jwallace@crocker.com
I travel to the wild places of this planet
and would like to share what I see
_____ http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace _______
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 14:02:43 -0500
From: "John Slavik" <brewer1@airmail.net>
Subject: 10 gal. GOTT False Bottom for RIMS
Do any RIM's users on the digest have a recommendation about a proper false
bottom ( one that has the proper open area) for use with a GOTT 10 gallon
cooler. The pump for this system will be a TEEL model 1P677. There seems
to be conflicting opinions about the Phils Phalse Bottom. Any
recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Private E-mail is fine as
this may not be of general interest.
John Slavik
Desoto, TX
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2406, 04/28/97
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