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HOMEBREW Digest #2405
HOMEBREW Digest #2405 Fri 25 April 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Dry Hopping - Hop Sterlisation (Antony Hayes)
Extraction Efficiency (Ken)
sweetness of protien rest (Scott Dornseif)
Efficiency as guide posts (Jim Wallace)
Cheap Kegs (John Goldthwaite)
Brewhouse Efficiency (Jim Busch)
HSA during mash & sparge (ddraper)
Temp controllers (David C. Harsh)
$.02 on minikegs ("Curt Speaker")
Broken Thermometer (Mark Davis)
Re: Widmer Hefeweizen Yeast (Doug Otto)
temp controller--inside or out? ("Bryan L. Gros")
Brewshop in L.A. and Gainesville ("Braam Greyling")
Belgian Yeasts ("Tomusiak, Mark")
recipe request ("John Watts")
poor-man's CP bottle filler / sankey insulation ("Keith Royster")
Caustic Soda ("Rob Moline")
Re: canning wort part LVII (Charles Burns)
boiling and efficiency (BAYEROSPACE)
Cold Rooms/Canadian Retail Prices ("Katrise")
Re: Chiller Operation (Richard Stueven)
Re: Extraction efficiency (Richard Stueven)
Bulk Honey (Rory Stenerson)
Hops History (Mike Hughes)
Marris-Otter Problems (Again) ("Michael Dowd")
decoction vs. step mash cont. (smurman)
Beer taxes ("Raymond Estrella")
1997 Brew In (Steve Heck)
Re: Extraction efficiency (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 13:07:26 -0700
From: Antony Hayes <anthayes@geocities.com>
Subject: Dry Hopping - Hop Sterlisation
I am new to the list so please bear with me if this has been asked
before.
My first attempt at dry hopping was a disaster, as wild yeasts on the
hops got going before my Gervin yeast, and spolied the brew.
I added the secondary hops in a muslin bag after hop sparging, but prior
to cooling. The wort was at roughly 80'C so I thought the bugs would
die. I pitched the yeast starter at 25'C, but by the following morning I
could smell the wild yeast. I left the beer for a week in case, but it
was definitely infected.
How do you sterilise hops for dry hopping?
Ant Hayes
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:05:20 -0400
From: Ken <kbjohns@oscar.peakaccess.net>
Subject: Extraction Efficiency
<italic>When Zymurgy did their field test of mash/lautering
systems in "The Great Grain Issue," they measured efficiency BEFORE the
boil. And as I recall, in their findings they achieved efficiency of 30
to 34 ppg on a wide range of systems (slotted copper manifold,
easymasher, bucket-in-bucket, false bottom). Also, if you go to back
issues of Zymurgy and calculate efficiency from printed recipes, you'll
find most brewers are in the 25 to 28 range. This is obviously as
measured AFTER the boil.
I think the lesson here is that you might have a problem, if you're not
getting 28 to 32 ppg measured BEFORE the boil. If you are, don't sweat
it.
For me, the most meaningful number is the one taken AFTER the boil. This
is an essential number in terms of recipe formulation and in batch.
repeatability.
Happy Brewing,
Jim
</italic>Jim I agree with what you say about accurate readings being
taken after the boil, the diference of readings before and after the boil
and about getting 25 to 28 OG pts/lb./gal with the mash systems you
mentioned.
I would however like to point out that ectraction rates of 31 to 35 after
the boil can be acheived with Klages 2 row (each malt is different).
However, to do so requires a more sophisticated system than those you
mentioned in your post.
I do get 34 pts after the boil, consistently, with our PBS 3 vessel
system.
This being said, I also feel that extraction efficiency is not that
important. Grain is cheap compared to the investment in one of our
systems. What is important is, as you stated, the consistency of the
extraction with the system being used. Once a brewer knows what
extraction rate he gets that can be plugged into all future recipe
calculations.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:25:54 -0500
From: Scott Dornseif <roundboy@wwa.com>
Subject: sweetness of protien rest
In HBD 2402 Al K. says...
> On the subject of sweetness, remember that you have amylase in your
> *saliva* and in a matter of seconds, *cornstarch* tastes sweet!
>
> Al.
COOL! So if I am having troubles with my conversion I can just spit alot
into my mash?
THANKS!
Scott Dornseif
Roundboy@wwa.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:27:08 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
Subject: Efficiency as guide posts
Mike Uchima <uchima@mcs.net> Writes:
>> I wonder a little bit about the preoccupation many homebrewers seem to
have with extraction efficiency. IMHO, *consistent* extraction from <<
- -------------------------------------
As a new brewer Efficiency is one of the guide posts that lets us know how
we are doing and where we can make improvements in our systems.
Once you have become comfortable/satisfied with the consistancy of your
system than efficiency is secondary to the process itself. I am not there yet.
________________________________________
JIM WALLACE ___ jwallace@crocker.com
I travel to the wild places of this planet
and would like to share what I see
_____ http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace _______
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:42:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: ir358@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite)
Subject: Cheap Kegs
Hope I don't make anyone too jealous, but if you dig and network
a bit, you can get into to kegging (highly recommended) without
spending lots of cash. I went to check out the local homebrew
club a year or so ago. Society of Northeastern Ohio Brewers, or
SNOB. They had a deal going with Coke or Pepsi to get the corny's
for 8$ a pop. (flagrant pun) I got two at that time and a buddy
who hadn't even started brewing yet bought 8 or so. He never used
them and I traded him a batch of Liberty clone for 4 of 'em.
Another friend found two more in someone's garage and they were
FREE! That same friend GAVE me a 5# CO2 tank and regulator. I
did trade some music for his generosity tho. So my total cost
is around 50$. I did acquire another tank and regulator for
nothing just recently too. Now I need a spare fridge to fall
out of the sky and I'll be set! So talk to the clubs, check
around and hopefully you can get your tanks for nothin' and
your kegs for free.
- --
"Gonna drink all day, gonna rock all night,
The law come to getcha if you don't walk right..."[Garcia/Hunter]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:49:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Brewhouse Efficiency
Regarding efficiency I have found that the homebrewers P/P/G numbers
are less convenient than what is used professionally. I also
in general prefer metric units.
Brewhouse yield is defined as: [1]
Y% = (Volume of wort (hectolitres, or hl) * 0.96 * extract by volume)
---------------------------------------------------------------
amount of grist (kg)
homebrewer example for a one hl (100 litres) brewery:
(brewer uses 40 lbs to brew 100 litres of 13.5P wort)
1 hl * .96 * 13.5 / 40 lbs = (1 hl*.96*13.5)/ (40lbs* kg/2.2lb)= 71%
Reverse this equation to calculate lbs needed assuming a given percent
yield:
grist (kg) = (Volume of wort (hectolitres, or hl) * 0.96 * extract by volume)
-----------------------------------------------------
Y%
0.96 is known as the correction factor and is based on several
parameters: contraction, volume of hops, expansion of kettle, temperature
error, etc.
Reference:
[1] Moll, Beers and Coolers, page 155.
Prost!
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:51:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: ddraper@utdallas.edu
Subject: HSA during mash & sparge
Dear Friends,
Loren Crow asked about whether hot-side aeration is a potential problem
during mashing and sparging, and how to combat it if so.
It can definitely be a problem. If your mash-handling procedures
introduce a lot of air in some kind of turbulent way, then oxidation of
melanoidins will occur pretty much the same as if you splashed your hot
wort after sparging it out of your grain bed.
I and my former neighbor & fellow brew-club member in Sydney, Ken Willing,
pursued this with some vigor about 18 months ago. Ken went to much
greater lengths than I did, but we both did what we could to minimize any
splashing or rough handling during mashing and sparging, and both of us
enjoyed very noticeable improvement in the downstream quality of our
beers, in particular in their ability to stay tasty for longer.
In my setup, what worked best was to make sure that the mash was
transferred from mash tun to lauter tun as gently as possible; my tactic
was to scoop it from the mash tun (I used a 2-litre plastic pitcher for
this) and simply lay it down inside the lauter tun. After a few scoops,
when the depth in the lauter tun became sufficient, subsequent scoopfuls
could be added with virtually no movement at all. Obviously, if you have a
way of mashing and sparging in one vessel, this step is avoided entirely.
Second, I made sure that I had a length of tubing leading from my outflow
spigot to the kettle as I collected wort. Thus, the runnings did not
splash either. I typically open the spigot wide to get the tube full of
liquid, then back it off until I reach the flow I desire.
Finally, in my setup, the main source of HSA during sparging that remained
was when the first runnings were returned to the lauter tun. Mine had a
depth such that I was forced to pour it from 20 or 30 cm height onto a
saucer atop the grain bed. I am sure there was some oxidation there; Norm
Pyle indicated in these pages at the time that in many setups, the region
just above the grain bed might be rich in water vapor emanating from the
grain, so that there would be less oxidation than if there were no steam.
Although this is sound in principle, in my setup I feel that this did not
help all that much because I could still detect some of the longer-term
effects of HSA, although the situation was much improved by taking the
other steps outlined above.
Hope this helps,
Dave in Dallas (formerly Dave in Bristol, then Dave in Sydney)
ddraper@utdallas.edu
"I can't be bought for a mere $3.50." -- Jeff Renner
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:58:17 -0400
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Subject: Temp controllers
Greg.Moore@East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
asks about controllers for fridge/freezer
>I see a lot of replacement freezer control modules that you put in the
>AC line between the fridge/freezer and the wall socket.
>
>However, wouldn't it be better to utilize these, especially the Johnson
>Model A19 which has no cord as mentioned in Bryan Gros' recent posting,
>by substituting the current inaccurate temp control with the more
>accurate replacement from inside the fridge?
Personally, I've used a Johson A319, which has an adjustable (1 to 30 F)
differential and was available from a local heating/refrigeration supply
for about $40. Control range is -20 to 100F. This is product number
A319ABC-24-01 and can actually be used for both heating and cooling. I
leave the freezer on the coldest setting and control with the external
unit, which controls power to the compressor. The only concern is where
you put the probe, for my freezer, I get best control with the probe in the
center about 12" from the bottom. No affiliation, just a satisfied
customer, ya-da-ya-da-ya-da...
This is a far better controller than most because the dial goes up to 11!
Dave Harsh
Cincinnati, OH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:19:55 EST
From: "Curt Speaker" <speaker@safety-1.safety.psu.edu>
Subject: $.02 on minikegs
Just wanted to add my $.02 on minikegs:
The pro side of the arguement has already been pretty well
discussed...no need for an extra fridge, reasonably inexpensive,
portable, less things to sanitize than with bottles, etc.
The cons: 16g CO2 cylinders can be expensive and hard to find,
limited lifespan of minikegs, troubles with dispensing (foaming),
plastic taps are a piece of junk, etc.
I would add one more con based on my experience - Minikegs are good
for short to medium term storage of ales, but I have had some serious
problems storing lagers in them for >4 months (even at cold temps).
A pilsner that I made and minikegged (and bottled) recently behaved fine
in the bottle but came out as total foam when I tapped the minikeg of
it. Priming is always a little tricky with minikegs...Yes, the rule
of thumb is 1 Tablespoon of corn sugar (dissolved in boiled water)
per minikeg, but I have gotten inconsistant results with this method.
I have had minikegs totally flat after 2 weeks of room temp
conditioning, and have had kegs of total foam after a month.
Force carbonation in a corny keg has given me much more consistant
results, FWIW.
I would suggest that minikegs are fine for 2-4 month storage of ales,
but be cautious when using them in other circumstances.
Hoppy Brewing!
Curt Speaker
Biosafety Officer
Environmental Health and Safety
speaker@ehs.psu.edu
http://www.ehs.psu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:25:24 -0400
From: davis.34@osu.edu (Mark Davis)
Subject: Broken Thermometer
This question is almost identical to one a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't
see any responses and now I am in the same situation as the previous
questioner. I was using a floating thermometer (Brewer's Best) and I guess I
got a little rough with it and it broke (the part with the small metal
weights in it, not the inner thermometer part). So glass, the little metal
pieces and whatever else is in that part of the thermometer were in the wort
for a period of time during cooling (15-30 minutes?) Everything was filtered
out as it was poured into the primary and I've just proceeded as usual with
the batch. But in the back of my mind I'm worried about this. Does anyone
know if what was in this section of the thermometer could be dangerous?
Should I just be safe and toss it out?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:03:37 -0700
From: otto@alldata.com (Doug Otto)
Subject: Re: Widmer Hefeweizen Yeast
Nicholas Dahl <ndd3@psu.edu> wrote:
->Does anyone know if the yeast in a bottle of Widmer Hefeweizen is the
->fermentation yeast, or actually a bottle conditioning yeast?
While I can't give you an absolute answer, I can tell you that I've
made some good beer using that yeast. I typically step it up twice
before pitching and then it takes off like it's rocket fuel - great
stuff.
Your mileage may vary.
Doug
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: temp controller--inside or out?
Greg.Moore@East.Sun.COM writes:
>I see a lot of replacement freezer control modules that you put in the
>AC line between the fridge/freezer and the wall socket.
>
>However, wouldn't it be better to utilize these, especially the Johnson
>Model A19 which has no cord as mentioned in Bryan Gros' recent posting,
>by substituting the current inaccurate temp control with the more
>accurate replacement from inside the fridge? ...
Keeping it outside has a couple advantage (for me at least). One is that
I can easily transfer it to another fridge or chest freezer and use my
first frigdge as it was intended. Say, if I need to get a bigger chest
freezer and use my first one as a freezer. I just move the controller.
Second, I can adjust the temperature without opening the fridge/freezer.
>Also, has anybody tried building a cold storage chamber based on the
>works taken out of an old fridge, or by incorporating an old fridge
>into the design. Just an idea I've been toying with the past few
I knew someone in California who built an insulated box and cooled
it with a window unit A/C. The box had two levels, with a plywood
floor keeping the levels about 80% separated. He put the unit in the
lower level of the box and kept the kegs in the upper level. That way,
the upper level would stay around 40F and he could keep hops, bottles
and lagering beers in the lower level (around 35F). It worked for him.
***
"Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella@msn.com> writes:
>Rob asks about CPFs:
<snip>
> I have the HopTech model and am very pleased with it. The guys at our
>local shop gave up on CPFing because of the need for three hands to use
>them.
Why do people tend to say that these things take three hands? Mine
(Braukunst) takes one hand to hold it and one hand to turn the valves.
First I open the pressure valve, flush the bottle and pressurize it.
Then I close the pressure valve and, with the same hand (look ma,
one hand!) I open the beer valve. Nothing happens. So, again
using the same hand, I open the pressure release valve and watch
the bottle fill. When full, I shut off the beer, shut off the pressure
relase valve and, using the other hand now, take the filler out of the
bottle. No problem.
Am I doing it wrong?
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 17:19:36 +200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling@azona.co.za>
Subject: Brewshop in L.A. and Gainesville
Hi,
A friend of mine is visiting the states soon and I asked him to bring
me some Wyeast.
Could someone please send me a few addresses of Homebrew shops in
Los Angeles and Gainesville that sells Wyeast ?
PLEASE
Thank you very much.
Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer
Azona(Pty)Ltd
tel +27 12 6641910
fax +27 12 6641393
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:19:00 -0700
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak@amgen.com>
Subject: Belgian Yeasts
Greetings all...I was curious about whether anyone has had any
experience with the new Wyeast Belgian Wheat strain, 3942 - I was
thinking about using it for a batch of witbier. I am also curious about
the origins of this strain - rumor on the HBD a few months ago placed
its origins near the town of Essens, which is on the Dutch border north
of Antwerp, but I have been unable to find out which brewery might be
located in that area.
Also, has anybody tried using the DeKoninck strain from Yeast Culture
Kit Company (A72)? I made a DeKoninck clone using this yeast recently,
and while fermentation proceeded normally it sure is behaving in a funky
way in the bottles - the yeast is clinging tenatiously to the sides of
the bottles in great swaths rather than settling quietly to the bottom.
I'm pretty sure that my starter culture did not get contaminated either,
as I used autoclaved seed flasks and a sterile hood during its
preparation.
Brewing Belgian beers...it's not just a brew, it's an adventure...
Mark Tomusiak
Boulder, Colorado
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:26:24 -0500
From: "John Watts" <watts@top.net>
Subject: recipe request
To the great electronic beer brain,
I am trying to locate a recipe for a raspberry wheat. Since I've not
made the plunge to all grain (yet!), an extract version would be
appreciated. All grain are fine too, just let me know the best way
to convert from one to the other.
TKA
John Watts
watts@top.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:02:07 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster@pex.net>
Subject: poor-man's CP bottle filler / sankey insulation
There has been some discussion regarding counter pressure bottle
fillers and I just wanted to mention the poor-man's version. I first
heard about it years ago on this digest, and it's also been
mentioned in Zymurgy, but I think there are a lot of newcomers to
this forum that probably haven't heard of it.
All you need to build your own is a piece of flexible plastic tubing
like you already use to siphon your beer, a foot-long piece of
straight rigid tubing such as the straight section of a racking cane,
and #2 drilled stopper. Like I said, this is the cheap version but
it works! Slide the rubber stopper onto the rigid tubing such that
when inserted into a bottle the rubber stopper seals the neck of the
bottle just before the tube hits the bottom of the bottle. Now
attach one end of the flexible tubing to the rigid tube and the
other end to your kegging system's cobra head tap. I use those
worm-gear ring clamps (I forget the real name for 'em) to secure the
the flexible tubing at each end.
To use your new CP bottle filler, turn the pressure up on your
kegging system just a few psi higher than you normally serve at
(about 5 to 8 psi for me). Firmly insert the filler into a bottle
with the stopper sealing the top. Hold this firmly with one hand
while you open the tap with the other. The bottle will begin to fill
with beer until the pressure inside equals the pressure you set on
the keg. Now carefully crack the seal of the rubber stopper to
partially relieve the pressure inside thus allowing the bottle to
continue to fill. Be gentle and careful to avoid *sudden* releases
of pressure as this will "jar" the beer causing it to foam. Also, the
closer to the bottom of the bottle that the rigid tube reaches, the
less the beer will splash and foam when first filling the bottle.
With a bit of practice you can easily fill your bottles from your keg
with miminal foaming.
Ken Schwartz has a web page at the Brewery
(http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/PMRCB_KS0796.html) of this bottle
filler including a diagram and ideas for improvements. Marty Tippin
also describes this design in his web page which is also at the
Brewery (http://alpha.rollanet.org/users/mtippin/cpfiller.html).
=======
Regarding sankey keg insulation for maintaining mash temperatures, I
use a section of hot-water heater insulation wrapped around the
outside of my mash tun, plus spray on insulating foam (it hardens
when it dries) on the bottom and a plastic lid on the top. This
works well for my RIMS setup, but obviously won't help those that
are firing the bottom of the keg.
Cheers!
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina
"An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer,
marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!"
mailto:Keith.Royster@pex.net
http://dezines.com/@your.service -@your.service
http://dezines.com/@your.service/cbm -Carolina BrewMasters club page
http://dezines.com/@your.service/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 09:41:19 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer@kansas.net>
Subject: Caustic Soda
The Jethro Gump Report
Caustic Soda.
Caustic is used in a 2.5 % solution at 175 degrees F, in commercial
settings with a CIP (Clean In Place) system. Caustic works well, but has
inherent dangers, notably to the eyes, should one get some splashed, and
the high temp offers it's own dangers. Caustic can't be used on 'soft'
metals like aluminum, as it 'eats' it up. Some brewers use straight
caustic, others use a blended product, like "Chem-Brite" by Texo. It is
formulated with other stuff, like surfactants, for better cleaning, but of
course, is more expensive.
All these alkaline cleaners are generally followed , periodically, with an
acid wash. I use a nitric acid/phosphoric acid blend called "FAC-106" by
Dubois Chemicals at 1 oz per gallon at 150 F, for 10 minutes. The acids eat
up beerstone, and I find i only need to use it once every four or five
cleanings.
I, like other brewers around here, are switching to P.B.W., (Powdered
Brewery Wash) by Five Star. Used at 1 oz. per gallon, it is a non-caustic
alkaline cleaner, and is really good s**t, man! CIP it at 100 - 150 F. for
30 minutes, and it is more eco-friendly at disposal time, with a ph when
exhausted of 9. This makes the folks at the waste treatment facility much
happier than when caustic is used. It is also good to go on soft metal. It
costs around 100 bucks for a 50 pound bucket, but I think that this could
be shared around a group of brewers, to ease the financial pain. Ask for
Mike LaGuardia at 5 Star, (800) 782-7019, and see if he will send you a
sample. A similar product called "Brewer-EZ" is also pretty good.(sorry,
forgot that companies name.) No Afiiliation with 5 Star, just a VERY happy
customer.
Jethro Gump
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 09:22 PDT
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Re: canning wort part LVII
On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:14:18 Scott Murman wrote
>If you don't have a pressure canner, and you insist on saving your
>wort, I would suggest just pouring it into a 22oz. bottle (after it's
>been cooled), capping it, stick it in the fridge or freezer, and then
>re-boiling it when you need it (and cooling, pitching, etc.).
><snip>
>
>Better yet, just don't bother with the whole mess and create a fresh
>starter from pale DME. If you can't pressure can wort, you're going
>through a whole lot of trouble just to save $0.20, IMO.
Its not just $0.20. DME costs $3 per pound around here, making it $0.75 for
a quarter pound which is a very small starter indeed. I get a full 32 oz of
wort left overs from a batch (already boiled) toss it into a quart size jar
in the fridge. Yes I always reboil and add a little water to bring the SG
down to about 1.030. Makes a very nice starter, its no trouble at all (less
trouble than messing around with DME) and works great.
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:22 -0600
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject: boiling and efficiency
collective homebrew consciencd:
jim thomas wrote:
>Generally, you can measure efficiency in a couple of ways, 1) by taking
>a reading before the boil or 2) after the boil--thus accounting for
>kettle losses.
>Here's the point. When Zymurgy did their field test of mash/lautering
>Lsystems in "The Great Grain Issue," they measured efficiency BEFORE the
>boil. And as I recall, in their findings they achieved efficiency of 30
>to 34 ppg on a wide range of systems (slotted copper manifold,
>easymasher, bucket-in-bucket, false bottom). Also, if you go to back
>issues of Zymurgy and calculate efficiency from printed recipes, you'll
>find most brewers are in the 25 to 28 range. This is obviously as
>measured AFTER the boil.
i need to be enlightened. i have always assumed that if you had, for example,
8 gallons of wort at 1.060 before the boil, and you boiled it down to 6
gallons, that the gravity would be 1.080 after the boil. (8*60 = 6*80).
does sugar get boiled out of the wort? what are the losses that occur in
the kettle that decrease the gravity of the wort?
the only variable i have ever considered in measuring efficiency, post boil,
was whether or not to include the volume of the trub. i have always assumed
that if i include the volume of the trub, i should calculate an efficiency
that would be the same as if i calculated it before the boil (like the zymurgy
road test did - thanks al k).
i realize that some sugar is getting lost in the hop flowers, but this is
surely minimal. what else is robbing me of gravity points between the
beginning of the boil and the end?
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:05:59 -0700
From: "Katrise" <wetpetz@oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Cold Rooms/Canadian Retail Prices
Greg Moore asks,
>>has anybody tried building a cold storage chamber based on the
works taken out of an old fridge, or by incorporating an old fridge
into the design.
Years ago, my Dad put together a small cold room to use for hanging game in
his garage. He used an older fridge as the cooler. It was inserted
through a wall in a room of about 380 cubic feet. 6x8x8. The walls were
heavily insulated with fiberglass and the seal against the fridge was
several sections of weather striping. At first there was not much
temperature difference except near the cement floor. After he added a
couple small electric fans to circulate the air the system seamed to work
better. The fridge kept the little space cool but no where near
refrigeration temperature and the project was dismantled after a couple
months.
I suppose if you were to build a smaller room and use the guts from a
commercial freezer or a real coolant compressor for such a room you could
build your own lagering walk-in closet but I hope your electricity is
cheap.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --------------
On the subject of retail beer prices. Boy, I wish I could find a pub with
beer at $.65 a glass! Here in Canada beer is expensive no matter where you
get it. In BC we buy from a cold beer store or the Gov. controlled liquor
stores. The cold beer and wine stores are about a dollar higher per six
pack. A six pack at the liquor store is $9 to $12 for any beer. The
Micros are usually a dollar more than the Big guys. The cheap beer (Lucky
Lager) has the low end prices of $9 and often go on sale for $7. A single
22oz bottle of microbrew is $2.60 to $4.95 depending on alcohol content and
that includes US exports like Pike Street etc.. European exports start at
$15 per six.
Bars are overly expensive. A pint in the pub is $4 and the special is
around $3 A bottle in a bar is $4.50 and I've had to pay as much as $5.50
for a bottle of domestic in a touristy pub but most of the sales in these
places are kegged micro brews anyway. In most bars I visit the local micro
kegged beer is the same price as the big guys beers.
There seems to be some big changes happening with the big breweries here
in Canada as more people are buying smaller brew products like Big Rock,
Moosehead and Okanagan Springs. The big guys are making smaller batches
and selling their beers so that they resemble micros. Labbatt Signature
Cream Ale is one example and It is a good beer. The Price is only a dollar
more than their normal swill for a six pack of bottles.
As I am not making any significant income right now I turned to making
beer as a cheap alternative but when I get a better job you can bet I'll
keep making my own.
Layne Rossi
wetpetz@oberon.ark.com
Campbell River, BC
***********************************************************
To try and fail is better than
failing because we didn't try!
***********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:34:26 -1000
From: Richard Stueven <gak@aloha.net>
Subject: Re: Chiller Operation
Rob Kienle wrote:
> Note you can suck freely from a
> hose on the bottom of the chiller without worry since by the time the
> hot water gets there, your mouth *should* be long gone.
Just to be safe, I start the flow of cold water before starting the
flow of hot wort or water. (Although flooding my mouth with
boiling water would probably be an effective method of pre-siphon
sanitation...)
have fun
gak
- --
Richard Stueven gak@beerismylife.com http://www.aloha.net/~gak
The Moloka`i Brewing Company http://molokaibrewing.com
Beer Is My Life! http://beerismylife.com
Breweries On The Web http://www.aloha.net/~gak/beer/brewwww.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:46:01 -1000
From: Richard Stueven <gak@aloha.net>
Subject: Re: Extraction efficiency
Jorge Blasig asks:
> I would appreciate if any of you can send an article explaining
> efficiency and extraction calculations in points, %, etc. and how these
> expressions can be related to each other.
Given:
PTS = gravity points (e.g. if the gravity is 1.050, PTS is 50)
GAL = gallons of wort
LBS = pounds of grain
EXT = extract efficiency
Then:
EXT = (PTS * GAL) / LBS (in units of "point-gallons per pound")
Once you get an idea of your system's typical efficiency, you can
work this formula backwards to help you design new recipes:
LBS = (PTS * GAL) / EXT
There's no reason you can't use litres and kilograms in place of
gallons and pounds.
1 point-gallon per litre = 1.72 point-litre per kilogram
have fun
gak
- --
Richard Stueven gak@beerismylife.com http://www.aloha.net/~gak
The Moloka`i Brewing Company http://molokaibrewing.com
Beer Is My Life! http://beerismylife.com
Breweries On The Web http://www.aloha.net/~gak/beer/brewwww.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:47:15 -0400
From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664@compuserve.com>
Subject: Bulk Honey
In HBD 2403 Randy deBeaclair asked:
"Any one have any suggestions for a good source of bulk honey, for the =
purposes of making mead? I live in Southern Michigan, although mail =
order would be fine."
If you don't care what kind of honey you use or where it comes from then
check into your local Sam's Warehouse, etc. Mail order is expensive
because honey is heavy, i.e. shipping charges will eat up any savings.
If you want to buy locally, and be assured personally of it's quality I
would recommend that you contact your local Beekeeper association who in
turn can turn you on to a local beekeeper. Here's a couple that may be in
your area:
Southeastern MI Bee Assoc.
Ann Kerwin,
17516 Birchencrest, Detroit MI 48221
Jackson Co. Bkpr. Assn.
Kenneth Losey,
6962 Folks Rd., Horton MI 49423
Southwest MI Beekeepers
Don Hiatt,
123 Drum, Niles MI 49120
If you deal with a beekeeper personally you may be able to strike up a
sweet deal like some mead/homebrew for honey. Good luck.
Rory Stenerson,
V.P., State College Underground Malsters,
Member, Centre County Beekeepers Association,
State College, PA U.S.A.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:27:03 -0700
From: Mike Hughes <mikehu@synopsys.com>
Subject: Hops History
Greetings -
I have just run across some literature that says that "The use
of hops for beer production has been documented back to 736 AD
in south central Europe. They were introduced into the United
States in 1629 by the colonists."
Can anyone verify this? I was always under the impression that
hops were not widely used in beer until the 1500's. Does anyone
know who was the first to use hops in beer production? What did
brewers use before they knew about hops? Anyone know how hops
were discovered?
Just curious.
Know the difference between beer nuts and deer nuts?
Beer nuts are a dollar thirty five a pack, and deer nuts
are under a buck...
Mike H.
Portland, Or
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:23:44 +0000
From: "Michael Dowd" <mikedowd@geocities.com>
Subject: Marris-Otter Problems (Again)
I wrote in a couple of months ago, after having a problem with
lautering a Marris-Otter mash (i.e., the sparge stuck). A friend of
mine, who uses an EasyMasher (as I do), very recently had the same
problem. As with my batch, the grain was crushed with a MaltMill.
The grist was composed of 10# of M-O plus a little crystal malt. He
doughed into 1.25 qt./# of water (12.5 quarts) at 135 F and rested
at about 130 F for 15 minutes. He then boosted the temp. to 152 F
for about an hour, then raised the temp to 169 for mashout. After
letting the grain bed set for about 15 minutes, he attempted to start
sparging. Which is when the problems started. The wort refused to
flow. Just as I did, he tried many different ways to get the wort
flowing, with no success. Finally, after adding 3/4# of rice hulls,
and putting a little suction on the outflow tube, was able to get the
wort flowing.
His M-O malt was from Beeston's, whereas mine came from Crisp, so
there's really very little chance that we both got bad batches of
grain. We are both pretty experienced brewers, and this sort of
thing has never happened to either of us before. We have both used
all types of grain with great success, until we used Marris-Otter.
Can anyone think of an explanation for this? I've been thinking that
maybe it has something to do with the EasyMasher -- perhaps it is
necessary to have greater surface area to draw from when lautering
this malt? I'm really not sure, though, and would appreciate hearing
any thoughts on why this might have happened. Does anyone else out
there have any experience with using an EasyMasher and Marris-Otter
malt?
Needless to say, neither of us plans to use M-O malt anytime in the
near future, as we have no desire to change our brewing set-up to
satisfy the demands of one type of malt, no matter how many rave
reviews it has received. (Unless someone can come up with an
alternative procedure for making this malt work with an EasyMasher.)
I am a little worried, though, as I noticed that Hugh Baird has changed
it's Pale Ale malt to be 100% Marris-Otter. Personally, I hope that
this is not a trend throughout the malting industry.
Mike Dowd
Campos Market Research
(412) 471-8484 x503
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 15:15:12 -0700
From: smurman@best.com
Subject: decoction vs. step mash cont.
Before you read on, let me note that my brews are typically split
evenly between decoctions, step mashing, and single temp infusions. I
enjoy all of the brewing methods and the beers they produce, and don't
have any preferred method I'm trying to defend.
There have been a couple of statements made regarding imitating a
decoction mash that I think could be misleading. The basic premise
put forth was that one could increase the amount of dark malts,
specifically European Munich and Crystal malts, and use a step mashing
program to achieve the same color and flavor profile as a decoction
mashed brew.
I agree that increasing the percentage of these malts in your grist
will lead to a darker and a maltier wort, however there is still a
component missing - the additional Maillard reactions. A dark malty
German lager will often use a high percentage of Munich and Crystal
malts *and* also employ a double or triple decoction mash program (ok,
some will claim that many German brewers are abandoning decoction
mashing. Others claim that many German brewers who went to step
mashing are going back to decoctions because they lost consumers).
The Maillard reactions that occur during a long decoction mash will
increase the malt-like flavors of the wort, and also the color.
Simply increasing the amount of Munich malt in your grist will not get
you the same Maillard reaction intensity or deep color. I'm going to
neglect issues like efficiency, wort clarity, etc., and concentrate on
the flavor. These issues do deserve consideration, but from a
homebrew standpoint there are ways to overcome them using a step mash
(buy more grain, longer lagering periods, etc.).
It is possible to simulate the Maillard reactions that occur in a
decoction mash by maintaining an exaggerated boil; up to three hours.
This extremely long boil will also provide an intense malty or toasted
caramel flavor, and a darker wort color. A boil of this length will
also require a longer sparge than usual because you're boiling away
more liquid. This leads to a combination of a 2-3 hour boil and a 2
hour sparge - about the amount of time as an extended decoction mash.
There is no free lunch. Some of the recent experiments with pressure
cooking however do give hope that we may be able to get away a little
cheaper though, at least on the homebrew level. It's also interesting
to note that some beers, such as the dopple Bocks, employ all three
methods; a high percentage of darker malts, an extended decoction
mash, and an extra long boil. These were originally brewed by monks.
Enough said.
Also note that there is a difference between the typical domestic
Munich and Crystal malts and their European counterparts. The
domestic varieties are often made from cheaper domestic 6-row grain,
while the European varieties come from medium-modified 2-row.
I'm curious about the details of the decoction vs. RIMS test that was
performed, and the preliminary results that have been posted. Any
word on when it will be ready in full?
SM
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 22:34:07 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella@msn.com>
Subject: Beer taxes
HR 158, which has been introduced in the House of Representatives,
would reduce the federal excise tax on beer to its pre-1991 level.
This is meeting strong opposition by the NCADD, who is pushing people to
INCREASE beer tax because they claim it will keep kids from drinking,
reduce problems with alcoholism (poor people wont buy it then) and all
manner of sillyness. NCADD has a big campaign against this, see
http://www.ncadd.org/campaction.html
and
http://www.ncadd.org/alert13.html
They also provide info so you can click your way to apposing the tax
reduction. You can use this same mechanism to show support for the
reduction. Take their sample letter (http://www.ncadd.org/hrltr.html)
and alter it. Send it to georgia6@nh.house.gov (or surface mail) - the
speaker of the house N. Gingrich.
While I was at the national micro conference in Seattle, I saw a talk by
and got a book by the founding director of the National Institute for
Alcohol and Alcohol Abuse (NIAAA), his statements are to the effect that
the experts are using incorrect statistics to push their position and in
his impressive experience that increasing prices via tax DOES NOT reduce
abuse.
thanks for helping with this. Please repost!
(is HBD still alive?)
-john
- --
John Isenhour "unix is not your mother"
Brewmaster/National Judge
Library & Information Science isenhour@uiuc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:18:33 EDT
From: hexbruhaus@juno.com (Steve Heck)
Subject: 1997 Brew In
see what's brewing in south jersey
on National Homebrew Day
Saturday May 3 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Rain or Shine
GLOUCESTER COUNTY HOMEBREWERS
1997 BREW IN
HOMEBREWING DEMONSTRATIONS
Lots of extract brewing
Partial mashing
Mead Making
Simple to sophisticated all grain systems
Watch 30+ brewers make hundreds of gallons of beer!
Meet local homebrewers who have made it big!
Scott Hansen - Cedar Creek Brewery & Restaurant
Gene Mueller - Flying Fish Brewery
It all takes place behind BEERCRAFTERS
110A Greentree Road
Turnersville, NJ
OPEN TO PUBLIC, NO ADMISSION $
For further information, call (609) 2 BREW IT
Gloucester County Homebrewers Assn. Officers
Tim Allen, President
Steve Heck, Vice President
Steve Andersen, Secretary
Joe Rizzuto, Treasurer
COME ONE, COME ALL - Join Us For A Day In May!!!!!
FOOD & FUN
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:42:51 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb@elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Re: Extraction efficiency
On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Richard Stueven wrote:
> Jorge Blasig asks:
>
> > I would appreciate if any of you can send an article explaining
> > efficiency and extraction calculations in points, %, etc. and how these
> > expressions can be related to each other.
>
> Given:
> PTS = gravity points (e.g. if the gravity is 1.050, PTS is 50)
> GAL = gallons of wort
> LBS = pounds of grain
> EXT = extract efficiency
>
> Then:
> EXT = (PTS * GAL) / LBS (in units of "point-gallons per pound")
>
> Once you get an idea of your system's typical efficiency, you can
> work this formula backwards to help you design new recipes:
>
> LBS = (PTS * GAL) / EXT
>
> There's no reason you can't use litres and kilograms in place of
> gallons and pounds.
>
> 1 point-gallon per litre = 1.72 point-litre per kilogram
>
> have fun
> gak
>
> --
> Richard Stueven gak@beerismylife.com http://www.aloha.net/~gak
> The Moloka`i Brewing Company http://molokaibrewing.com
> Beer Is My Life! http://beerismylife.com
> Breweries On The Web http://www.aloha.net/~gak/beer/brewwww.htm
>
ALOHA RICHARD;
thanks for your reply.
Now I understand what you homebrewers are talking about.
Jorge Blasig
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2405, 04/25/97
*************************************
-------
