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HOMEBREW Digest #2402
HOMEBREW Digest #2402 Tue 22 April 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Mash pH / Iodine test / Preserving Wort (Jim Wallace)
Low Extraction... need help! (Jim Wallace)
Re: Kolsch style (Sharon/Dan Ritter)
Questioning accuracy of data on Saccharification Temperature Range (Charles Burns)
REAL ALE (kathy)
Thermostat for lagering (JohnT6020)
re: Beer Hiatus (Meercat)
Cheap Kegs ("Kieran O'Connor")
Contest Results (Btalk)
Brew historian help needed: Bride Ale (Amy West)
Founding a Homebrew Club (TheTHP)
Micro prices (Steve Stuart)
Newcastle brown ale recipe? ("Sebastian Dunne")
Final Announcement (Mark Taratoot)
kraeusening ("Ken Smith")
beer rights ("Bryan L. Gros")
Brewing and Beer Traditions in Norway (TOM ELIASSEN)
Thermometers/Hop Tea/Bandwidth A (eric fouch)
Mash Schedules (Bruce Baker)
pH/Oak casks/140F rest (korz)
LACTIC ACID SOLUTION (Chris McAtee)
NJ brewer,CP bottle filler, mini-kegs,bleach ("David R. Burley")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:02:31 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
Subject: Mash pH / Iodine test / Preserving Wort
Lots of Questions:
1...pH of mash!... I have been trying to keep this in the range OF 5.2-5.5
to control the extraction of husk tannins. I thought I was doing just fine
until I relized I was cooling mash sample to 65F to measure the pH and have
just recently heard that my actual pH at 153F would be ~.35 higher making my
very acceptable reading of 5.3 actually becomes 5.65 putting it in the upper
part of this range.
...Should I be concerned and use phosphoric acid to acidify this mash?
...Is there agreement on this .35 pH increase at the higher temp range?
2...Starch Iodine test!... I have been checking for conversion before
mashout(after 60-90 min conversion rest) by testing the liquid part of my
mash with iodine. After my most recent mash I also pulled some grains in a
separate examination and pressed them with the back of my spoon. I found the
iodine tested positive for starch here.
...Will this starch be rinsed into the wort during lautering or is it still
pretty well bound up in the bits of grit?
...What happens to it as I raise the temp to 168F? Should I expect
unconverted starch to be rinsed into my wort?
...Considering that gelatinization is effective at 149F and I have been
holding this mash above this for at least 60 mins, why the unconverted
starch? Am I dealing with limited enzyme availability or activity here
(American Klages Malt used)?
3...Preserving Extra Wort for yeast starters... My last batch provided me
with some extra wort which I decide to bottle. I racked it into 22 oz
bootles ... placed into my kettle with boiling water up to the liquid level
of the wort... Placed caps loosly on tops ... boiled for 30-45 min... pulled
bottles out and capped .. let cool.
...Is this a sound procedure for preserving wort for yeast starters or wort
for conditioning beer? How do other people do this? Any comments would be
appreciated.
________________________________________
JIM WALLACE ___ jwallace@crocker.com
http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:02:29 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace@crocker.com>
Subject: Low Extraction... need help!
I have been brewing with all grain for the past year (8-10 batches) and
feel I am getting a much lower extraction than others out there.
My most recent batch:
(American Pale Ale)12.25 Lbs of grain (AmerKlages,Cryst,Munich)
MashIn @ 131F_20min
Convert @ 154F_90 Min (drops to 150 at end)
MashOut @ 168F_10
Lauter lasted 1 hr and grain bed stayed at 166-168
I collect 8.25 Gallons of wort..
boil off 2 Gallons in 90 Min boil..
loose .75 Gal as Trub ..
finishing with a batch of 5.5 Gal and an OG of 1.052.
I figure my efficiency to be 75% but others expect 80-90% from their batches...
Any Ideas on improving my efficiency?
________________________________________
JIM WALLACE ___ jwallace@crocker.com
http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:27:39 -0700
From: Sharon/Dan Ritter <ritter@camasnet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolsch style
David Johnson writes:
>I recently entered a home brew competition and scored pretty well in
>the most part. The reason I am writing is to discuss the beer that did the
>poorest. I tried to make a Kolsch bier. Of course, there were several
>problems. First of all, I had been brewing less than a year. Also, I didn't
>have access to any commercial examples to know what I was trying for. I also
>didn't have access (at the time I brewed the beer) to this forum to ask the
>learned community for help. It turned out to be a good beer but not to style.
>It was a light (srm~6), clear, golden beer with a nice head, decent hop
>character in bitterness, flavor and aroma and minimal fruitiness. In
>competition it scored a 26.
Take that score with a grain of salt and don't necessarily jump to the
conclusion that you brewed out of style from the results of one
competition. Recently I had an English Special Bitter score in the mid and
upper 20's by two judges in the first round of the competition. In the
second round two new judges scored it 39 and 40! Remember not all judges in
all competitions are experts at the style they are judging. I have alot of
respect for people that take the time and effort to become certified beer
judges (I'm studying at the moment). My only point is that any beer can be
judged incorrectly if the person judging doesn't have much experience
tasting the real thing. As you point out, Kolsch is a difficult style to
find at the local Safeway.
Dan Ritter <ritter@camasnet.com>
Ritter's MAMMOTH Brewery - Grangeville, Idaho
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 97 15:35 PDT
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Questioning accuracy of data on Saccharification Temperature Range
With the problems I've encountered with decoction mashing and protein
resting, I decided to try a new method last week. Making my first American
brown, I decided to mashin at 135f for a protein rest, pull a third or so of
the mash for a quick decoction and boost to 158f. I completed that, made a
good looking and tasting wort and will post more details when beer is finished.
However, the interesting part is that 2/3 of the mash stayed at exactly 135F
for about 30 minutes. I got my fingers in there somehow (could be on purpose
but I can't remember) and I ended up tasting the mash. Imagine my surprise
when it tasted sweet! Wait a minute, I said to myself, this is a rest to
break up large proteins to medium size proteins, not Saccharification. Hmmmm.
Some of you may have noticed my skepticism over some of the statistics and
temperatures mentioned over the last couple of months. I decided to do a
little experiment.
Yesterday, I mashed 1 pound of Great Western Pale ALE malt at 135F to 130F
for 1 hour in 1 quart of water (untreated). I did it on the stove top, not
my usual setup. The temperature stayed between 130F and 135F the entire
time. PH was a little high at 5.9 but I wasn't going for max conversion, I
just wanted to see if sugar would be created. I tested for starch every 15
minutes. The reaction got steadily less as time went on, but even after 1
hour I still had starch in the mash. I wanted to keep going but the wife had
other ideas yesterday. I shut down the mash at 1 hour.
I sparged very sloppily in a kitchen strainer with 2 quarts of water @ 180F,
not worrying about mashout. The result was a really VERY cloudy 2.5 quarts.
I assume there was tons of starch left. I boiled it down to 2 quarts total
volume of wort. The OG was 1.036 (18 pts/gal/lb). This of course is a very
bad extraction rate.
BUT, the fact remains that more than 54% (assuming available = 33 pts) of
the starch DID get converted to sugar (I think that's all the OG is
measuring). My guess is that it's almost all (maybe 100%) maltose
(fermentable). It is now happily bubbling away in a 1 gallon jug after I
pitched a 7gm packet of Danstar dried ale yeast. I'll measure the final
gravity in a week and report it then.
My observation really is this - all the temperature's being talked about in
all these posts about decoctions and saccharifcation ranges are to be taken
with a grain of salt. Try stuff for yourself, do some experiments and you'll
discover what works best for you and the malt that you have.
I went back and compared Dave Millers Handbook to Noonan. They both
recommend protein rests between 122F and 131F. I think I'll try a 125F
protein rest next time I make a pale ale, boosting after 20 minutes to 155F.
And you can bet I'll taste the mash during protein rest to see if it is also
sweet at that low temp.
Charley (feeling better about my data and my malt) in N. California
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:47:31 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth@scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: REAL ALE
My wife has told me she'll drink beer in Europe if we ever went again.
I figured that 3 times a day tasting enabled her to condition her tongue
and it was a matter of overcomming her wine preference.
When visiting NYC we wandered into "The Gingerman" pub on east 36th
street after failing to find where the NYC homebrew contest was, and
they had real ale on tap. My wife actually enjoyed the cask conditional
ale pulled up on an engine and served English style. Have others had
the experience with significant others who greet beer (anybodies-not
just mine) with the "do I have to?" look on their face.
Cheers....jim booth, lansing, mi email kbooth@waverly.k12.mi.us
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 01:52:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: JohnT6020@aol.com
Subject: Thermostat for lagering
Lager Brewers:
Who is the vendor for the thermostat that is used to maintain lagering
temperatures in a adapted chest freezer? I know there have been posts from
satisfied users. Who can find them when you want them? I have also checked
several issues of Zymurgy, BYO and Techniques without finding the ads that I
know I have seen.
TIA
73,
JET
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 00:25:53 -0700
From: Meercat <steveq@imagina.com>
Subject: re: Beer Hiatus
Dean states:
>Hmmmrph, I'm sitting here dreaming about my next brew adventure. I had an
>arthroscopy and general clean up of a skateboard ruined right ankle two weeks
>ago, damn my fearless youth. My two faithful labs are keeping me company and
>my wife is my chauffer-no driving for another 4 weeks. I've done a partial
>grain IPA and a pilsner along with a dark beer and a stout which were all
>extract, any ideas for my next brew? I don't really favor fruit beers but
>maybe a wheat would be a good guess, any experience with wheat extract brews?
>
I recently had a hernia operation and was unable to brew at all for 3 months.
I know what it can be like. I have made an excellent wheat beer from extract
I use a local supplier's (Steinbart's in Portland, OR) wheat extract which is
65/35 wheat to malt ratio. This is also available as Northwestern wheat malt
I believe. My recipe tends to be on the strong side as I buy it in 7# buckets
and usually end up with an OG of 1.055. You can try to use 2 3.3# cans of a
good wheat extract just be sure it is in the 60/40 ratio range. For hops I
use
approximately 15 IBUs of German noble hops, Hallertauer or Tetts. I
personally
prefer the Weinstephan (sp) wheat yeast and it gives a great spicy/banana
aroma
and flavor which is appropriate.
Steve
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve <Meercat> Quarterman
Zymurgy Forum - http://zymurgy.dm.net/
Home Page - http://www.dm.net/~steveq/
Portland OR <<---------->> steveq@imagina.com
ICQ UIN 109308
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:18:45 -0400
From: "Kieran O'Connor" <koconnor@cnyric.org>
Subject: Cheap Kegs
Regarding kegs:
Saw this in a digest I subscribe to:
Cornelious Kegs, 5 gallon ball lock, cleaned and santitized at factory
$14.50 each for orders of twenty or more, UPS the least expensive
hundred weight class, club price
RCB Fermentation Equipment
916-723-8859 or e-mail <rcbequip@jps.net>
I've ordered some: will report on the quality. Apparently they come cleaned
by Pepsi. Cost with shipping to NY State makes the keg total $20 per.
Kieran
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Kieran O'Connor
Cortland City Schools/OCM BOCES Systems Consultant
Syracuse, NY USA koconnor@cnyric.org
(607) 753-6061 or (315) 433-8335
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:44:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Btalk@aol.com
Subject: Contest Results
PARLOR CITY BREW OFF RESULTS
Saturday April 19, 1997 Binghamton, NY
Belgian & Weizen Beers
1st. Phil Spanel Lemont, PA Weizenbock SCUM
2nd. Bob Talkiewicz Binghamton, NY Weizenbock BYI
3rd. Jeff Connor Binghamton, NY Dubbel
Brown Ales
1st. Mark Eddy Ganesvoort, NY American BA ST
2nd. Don Hess Newark Valley, NY American BA BCFA
3rd. Ray Root Owego, NY American BA
Stouts
1st. Peter Garofalo Syracuse, NY Foreign Stout SCBC
2nd. Gary Brodock Imp. Stout
3rd. Kurt Nelson Binghamton, NY Imp. Stout BYI
Pale Ales & Bitters
1st. Dennis Everett N.Syracuse, NY Amer. PA SCBC
2nd. David Myers Manlius, NY Classic Eng. PA SCBC
3rd. Kurt Nelson Binghamton, NY Classic Eng. PA BYI
Scottish Ales
1st. John Therriault Apalachin, NY Scottish Light BIER
2nd. Dennis Everett N. Syracuse, NY Scottish Light SCBC
3rd. Bill Heller Pennelville, NY Scottish Heavy SCBC
Porters
1st. Dave King Endicott, NY Robust Porter BIER
2nd. Don Hess Newark Valley, NY Brown Porter BCFA
3rd. Peter Garofalo Syracuse, NY Brown Porter SCBC
Strong Beers
1st. Peter Garafalo Syracuse, NY Barley Wine SCBC
2nd. Roger Haggett Endicott, NY Barley Wine BCFA
3rd. Bob Edwards Binghamton, NY Barley Wine
Light Lagers
1st. Randy Lewis Clifton Park, NY Dortmund/Export HRBC
2nd. Ray Root Owego, NY Bohemian Pils
3rd. Ray Root Owego, NY American Premium
Amber & Dark Lagers
1st. Dennis Van Zandt Skaneateles, NY Vienna SCBC
2nd. Paul Kowell Gansevoort, NY Munich Dunkel ST
3rd. Tom LaBarge Syracuse, NY Munich Dunkel SCBC
Mixed Ales & Lagers
1st. Bob Talkiewicz Binghamton, NY Koelsch BYI
2nd. Peter Garafalo Syracuse, NY California Common SCBC
3rd. Stephen Rosenzweig Ontario, NY Koelsch
Classic Style Fruit, Herb & Specialty
1st. Jeff Connor Binghamton, NY Amer. Prem. with Rye
2nd. Philip Spanel Lemont, PA IPA with herbs SCUM
3rd. Dennis Everett N. Syracuse, NY Strong Ale with Herbs SCBC
Fruit, Herb & Specialty
1st. Andrew & Bernie Moon E. Syracuse, NY Herb Beer
2nd. John Niciase Selkirk, NY Herb Beer
3rd. Phil Stone, Eric Volcko E. Syracuse, NY Herb Beer
& Jim Googale
Meads & Ciders
1st. Dennis Everett N. Syracuse, NY Sparkling Metheglin SCBC
2nd. Dennis Everett N. Syracuse, NY Still Cyser SCBS
3rd. Bob Talkiewicz Binghamton, NY Still Traditional Mead BYI
Best of Show BEER: BOB TALKIEWICZ KOELSCH
Best of Show CIDER/MEAD:
DENNIS EVERETT SPARKLING METHEGLIN
Brew Club Key:
BCFA = Broome County Fermenters Assoc.
BIER = Brewers in Endicott Region
BYI = Borderline Yeast Infectors
HRBC = Hudson River Brew Club
SCBC = Salt City Brew Club
SCUM = State College Undergroung Maltsters
ST = Saratoga Thoroughbrews
Congratulations to all!
The over all quality of this year's entries was pretty good...very few low
scores were given.
Thanks to all who judged and stewarded. We would not have been able to have
such a smooth running contest without your help.
Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk@aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 08:43:36 EDT
From: awest@webster.m-w.com (Amy West)
Subject: Brew historian help needed: Bride Ale
I need the help of a brewing/beer historian.
Some friends want me to brew a "Bride Ale" for their
wedding *next* May. I haven't a clue what this is.
Is it a special, one-time brew that can be of my own devising?
Is it a pale, a brown, or a dark ale? Can someone point me
to some references/sources to use?
Thanks,
Amy West
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:19:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: TheTHP@aol.com
Subject: Founding a Homebrew Club
To all those club members who helped found thier club,
I am in the early stages of founding a Homebrew club in my hometown of
Jackson Michigan. There are clubs in Kalamazoo, Lansing, Williamston and Ann
Arbor, but all are over 45 minutes away. The local Brew Pub has been itching
to start a club, so with thier help (as host) we have have a place to meet,
drink and discuss homebrewing. Dave Dahl from the FORD club is joining me on
this quest, he has a copy of the FORD clubs by-laws and general info. Would
any of you be willing to send me similar information for comparison? I have
contacted the AHA a couple of times, but their club program administrator,
Brian Rezac, Has yet to respond. (its been a week, maybe he's on vacation?
yea right;<) So I put out my quest for information to the most responsive and
knowledgeable resource I know--YOU!!!! (bless your hearts)
TIA Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewery
JACKSON-Jackson Assoc. of Crazy Kraeuseners Sampling Oderiferous Nectars ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 09:16:02 -0400
From: Steve Stuart <srstuart@voyager.net>
Subject: Micro prices
> Hell, I can't afford to buy them! Eight bucks for a six pack! Get =
real.
> The stuff is WAY overpriced, in my opinion.
> which is why I started brewing four years ago. Now, I get 50 bottles =
of
> beer that is as good as most micros, and sometimes exceptionally good, =
for
> $12-15. Let's see, $16 for twelve snob micros with mountain-laden =
labels,
> or $15 for over two cases . . . hmmmm . . . what to do.
In Michigan (Detroit area), micro prices are 8+. Even Sam Adams is like =
$7.99. I was in Tuscon, AZ a few weeks ago and their prices were MUCH =
lower. Sam Adams was going for $4.99! Is it the stores, the =
distributors, or the micros themselves causing the excessive prices?
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 9:51:45 EDT
From: "Sebastian Dunne" <sdunne@nea.org>
Subject: Newcastle brown ale recipe?
Anyone know of a recipe that closely resembles Newcastle brown ale? An
extract with specialty grains recipe would be best, but if you've got an
all-grain recipe I'll take that too.
Thanks in advance.
Sebastian Dunne
Technical Associate
sdunne@nea.org
******************************************************************
Only the individual sender is responsible for the content of this
message, and the message does not necessarily reflect the position
or policy of the National Education Association or its affiliates.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:15:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot@PEAK.ORG>
Subject: Final Announcement
Heart of the Valley Homebrewers Present:
The 15th Annual
Oregon Homebrew
Competion and Festival
At the Oregon Trader Brewery
140 Hill Street NE
Albany, Oregon 97321
(Off Street Parking Available)
Saturday, May 10th
From 11 am to 5 pm
JUDGING FOR THE 24 RECOGNIZED AHA BEER STYLES
PLUS ALL THREE MEAD CATEGORIES
We are looking forward to continuing the tradition of this festival in its
fifteenth year as the longest running competition in the Pacific
Northwest! This years activities will include several displays, a raffle,
food concessions, and the opportunity to meet and talk with some of the
best and most experienced homebrewers anywhere!
Contact Jennifer Crum at bennyj@peak.org
or
Mark Taratoot at taratoot@peak.org
or
Visit our Web Site
http://www.peak.org/~taratoot/fest.html
for details!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:37:15 +0000
From: "Ken Smith" <mail.iserv.net@mail.iserv.net>
Subject: kraeusening
I'm brewing a California Common this weekend and was thinking about
kraeusening the beer for conditioning. There seems to be a shortage
of information on this other than how it is done. What I need to know
is for a 1.050 gravity beer, how much wort do I need to cask
condition (in a 5 gallon corny) the beer. I was planning on pullin
off a quantity of the wort before hopping to store for the kraeuesen
step. At kegging time, I was thinking about taking the reserved
portion of wort and re-boiling it to sterilize it and priming the keg
with it. Am I on the right track? If so, how much wort should I use?
If not, what would be a better way?
Ken Smith
Britten and Smith Brewing Co VyLtd
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: beer rights
Pat wrote:
>Accessibility. What about beer? Is there a "right" to good beer?
I ask myself this a lot. Here in TN, "beer stores" are not allowed to
sell beer > 5%abv. beer stores include brew pubs. Why should
I, just because I happen to live in Tennessee, not be allowed to
enjoy Salvator, Old Foghorn etc.?
Just another case of the government messing where they
shouldn't be....
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:12:07 -0500
From: TOM ELIASSEN <TELIASSEN@aot.state.vt.us>
Subject: Brewing and Beer Traditions in Norway
Dennis Sherman posted a very nice book review (HBD #927?) in 1992 on "Brewing
and Beer Traditions in Norway" by Odd Nordland which had been published in 1969.
I am very interested in finding a copy of this book for my library, although,
I'm sure that it is probably out-of-print and my only access to the book would
be through an inter-library loan.
Anybody out there familiar with this book? Anybody know where I could get a
copy of this book? Any other information about home brewing and Norwegian beer
making would be appreciated.
Tom Eliassen teliassen@aot.state.vt.us
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 14:44 EST
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc@mcimail.com>
Subject: Thermometers/Hop Tea/Bandwidth A
Date: Monday, 21 April 1997 3:39pm ET
To: STC012.PREQUEST@STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch@STC001
Subject: Thermometers/Hop Tea/Bandwidth Abuse
In-Reply-To: The letter of Monday, 21 April 1997 2:09am ET
HBD-
Just thought I'd chime in about thermometers: One point I haven't seen made
about glass thermometer accuracy is the type of glass thermometer used:
There are two types- total immersion and partial immersion thermometers.
Partial immersion thermometers have an immersion line, usually a few inches
above the bulb. If they are immersed deeper than that, they will give an
inaccurate reading. Conversly, if a total immersion thermometer is not
properly immersed (all but 12mm into the fliud), it will not read properly.
There are Emergent Stem Correction formulas. If anyone is interested, e-mail
me directly, I don't want to waste bandwidth yet (that is coming).
I made some interesting hop tea the other day- I took 1/2 ounce Cascade hops
that had spent 1 week dry hopping an APA, boiled it in 2 qts water, diluted to
one gallon and sweetened with 3/4 corn sugar. Its good for beddybye time. If
you try it, avoid dropping the hop bag in the trub.
Now for the wasted bandwidth: Lets all learn to laugh at ourselves, then
then hold hands and sing Kum-by-ya.
Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take
to change a light bulb?
A: 1,331:
1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail
list that the light bulb has been changed
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the
light bulb could have been changed differently.
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about
changing light bulbs.
53 to flame the spell checkers
156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb
discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list.
41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.
109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and
to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb
203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and
alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped.
111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light
bulbs therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list.
203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and
alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped.
111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light
bulbs therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list.
306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior,
where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs
work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty.
27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs.
14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and
to post corrected URLs.
3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to
this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list.
33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all
headers and footers, and then add "Me Too."
this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list.
33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all
headers and footers, and then add "Me Too."
12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot
handle the light bulb controversey.
19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."
4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.
1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.
47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion
was meant for, leave it here.
143 votes for alt.lite.bulb.
Sorry if this cut in on someones posting about brew dogs.
Eric Fouch
Efouch@steelcase.com
Bent Dick YactoBrewery
Kentwood, MI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:32:06 +1200
From: Bruce Baker <Bruce.E.Baker@tsy.treasury.govt.nz>
Subject: Mash Schedules
G'day y'all,
Does anybody feel up to writing a short dissertation on mash schedules?
What I'm after is:
1. What are all the possible rests one might use in beer making (arranged in
order of temperature).
2. What are the benefits of each?
3. What are the implications of undershooting or overshooting on
temperature?
4. What are the implications of undershooting or overshooting on time?
5. What is the importance of mash-out?
Thanks in advance,
Bruce
Wellington, New Zealand
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:30:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: pH/Oak casks/140F rest
Dave writes:
>>1. You don't. You are extracting some tannins throughout the sparge.
>>At the beginning of the sparge, your mash still has some buffering
>>Ability and the pH is hopefully above 5.5.
>
>I'm sure you mean BELOW Ph 5.5.
Duh! Yes, absolutely.
>On the subject of wooden casks and beer, there is apparently a HUGE
>misunderstanding about how wood casks were employed. The beer did not
>INTENTIONALLY touch the wood. The barrels were lined with pitch and later
>with synthetic coatings and even occasionally rubber liners until plastic
>came along according to De Clerk. All were abandoned in favor of stainless
>steel. Even though it was substantially more expensive, it gave a more
>stable and predictable product.
I disagree. I could barely contain myself as our guide explained what
was done in the cooper's room at the Tadcaster Brewery (Samuel Smith's).
I could not wait to ask if the casks were lined or unlined. The answer
is: they are unlined. As far as I know, all brewers in the UK that
currently distribute beer in oak casks (there are only a handful)
do so in *unlined* casks.
>>Wooden casks can lend flavors unobtainable in glass or stainless, but they
>>Are a bunch of work..
>
> I'll agree, but they aren't necessarily flavors we would like in our beer.
Untrue as you have noted in your followup post. The old Ballentine's IPA,
Rodenbach and Rodenbach Grand Cru, and Petrus are four beers that definitely
have an intentional oaky flavour/aroma.
>Maybe it was the pitch coating on the inside of the cask no longer lending
>that superior flavor to the Ballantines! Maybe it was nostalgia.
No, they were unlined, American Oak casks and it didn't take long for the
oakiness to be imparted. Note that European Oak (and well-used European
oak at that: would you send your new casks to India or your beat-up ones?)
casks were used to send IPA to India. European oak imparts far less oakiness
than American oak. The makers of Ballentine's were trying to be authentic
but they accidentally created a new style.
***
Nick writes:
>Does anyone use a 140F rest when brewing ales to break the big proteins
>into medium-sized proteins, to improve mouthfeel and reduce cold break
>volume?
>
>If so, how long of a rest is sufficient, before raising the mash
>temperature to the upper 150s?
Yes, I do... I rest for 15 to 30 minutes at 135-140F when I use malts
that create a lot of hot and cold break (like DWC Pale Ale and Pils).
***
Dave writes:
>This is exactly what is wanted in these products and also in the Belgian
>Red Ales, like Rodenbach as Dave Hinkle points out. Michael Jackson in his
>Beer Companion points out that these red ales are aged in "unlined" casks,
>thereby implying that other beers are aged or at least stored in "lined"
>casks, such as De Clerk points out. Lining of casks was therefore used for
>beers that one didn't want to get sour from contamination in the wood of
>the cask.
You are making a very big assumption that all other casks are lined. The
fact is that they are not.
>It is potentially conceivable that in the Olde days, unlined casks for
>short term British beers that were fermented in say 5 days, kegged and sent
>to the pub could have been drunk in a few days and would have been OK.
>This would have required the beer to have been highly hopped, high in
>alcohol content and kept cool. All possible, if beer deliveries were local.
> However, even if the casks were new, a short stay like this would hardly
>have time for the beer to pick up oakiness. The major number of casks were
>not new.
I've had Samuel Smith's "from the wood" at Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese in
London and there was a slight woody character (mahogany (sp?) I wrote
in my notes) in *one* of the beers. Note that I also tasted that same
character in the same beer from a bottle in the US (beer which had never
seen wood) so that suggests that the woodiness was *not* from the wood
cask. Oh... just wanted to point out that London is pretty far from
Tadcaster and that the beer tasted the same in both London and Tadcaster.
> .As I commented above, I also thought of the old Porter/Stale beer which
>was likely stored in un-lined casks so it would stale quicker. Also as you
>may know Breweries tended to use larger and larger casks and this would
>minimize the surface volume ratio and perhaps prolong the life of the beers
>in the absence of sanitation.
I believe that the larger and larger tuns were simply to have bragging
rights (and perhaps for advertising reasons).
>My point in this whole discussion is that is unlikely you will get much
>from your effort even if you were to go to get and use wooden casks. Of
>course, there is nothing to prevent you from using sterilized oak chips (
>boil for 20 minutes in water and use the water as well as the chips, or
>pressure cook for 10 minutes at 15 lbs - preferred) to give your beer an
>oakey taste. Start at around 4 ounces/5 gallons for a subtle taste in one
>of your big hoppy nosed IPA's.
My point is that you don't want an oak flavour in your IPA. The wood
was European oak and the casks were old and well-used. The only beer
style you would want an oaky character is in a Flanders Red Ale (like
Rodenbach or Petrus). Also, 4 ounces of American oak chips in 5 gallons
of beer is going to give you a *lot* of oak flavour.
As for trying to use an American oak cask for your Red Ale, the oakiness
subsides after each batch you use the cask for, but I suggest no more
than a week on the first batch. I went two weeks and despite the fact
that I had filled the cask with water and soaked it for nearly 6 months,
changing the water eight or ten times, the beer was way overdone.
If you still don't believe me that American oak is different from European,
compare my "two weeks were too much" with the fact that Rodenbach
Grand Cru is kept in their oak tuns for up to two years and they
disassemble their tuns after every one or two batches (I don't recall)
and scrape a fine layer of wood off to expose fresh wood.
Finally, the purpose of using oak casks for making purecultureLambic (pLambic)
is not so much for the flavour (both J-P Van Roy and Henri Vandervelden (sp?)
were quite clear that you don't want any oakiness picked up from the wood...
Henri uses only chestnut casks at Oud Beersel and only half the casks at
Cantillon are oak!) but that it appears that some of the microbiota in Lambic
prefer a *small* amount of oxygen during fermentation. On the Lambic Digest
it has been suggested that pLambics fermented in wood and plastic were
generally superior to those fermented in glass (but this is from a very
small sample and purely speculation at this point).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:29:17 -0600
From: mcatee@cadvision.com (Chris McAtee)
Subject: LACTIC ACID SOLUTION
I'm getting tired of e-mailing this to everyone.
LACTIC ACID SOLUTION
I use Miller's technique of mixing 2 tsp 88% lactic acid to 3 cups water
(Complete Handbook of Homebrewing,1st ed. p. 73). Then I add this solution
to my sparge water. I generally need 1.25 -1.50 cups/27 litres of solution
to lower the pH from 8 to about 5.7. Mix it into all your sparge, mash out,
and hop sparge water at once if possible. Don't mix up too much solution at
once as it doesn't keep (snowflakes ppt). If you do so, throw it in the
fridge. It'll keep 3 weeks - maybe longer.
Some guys use an eyedropper or small ear/eye drop dispenser but I feel the
"solution" is easier. I also put 5 drops of 88% lactic acid (full strength)
in my airlocks.
Chris
Calgary, Alberta
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:42:13 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: NJ brewer,CP bottle filler, mini-kegs,bleach
Brewsters:
Michael Aesop has a friend in NJ that wants to become a home brewer in the
area of Parsippany or Picatinny Arsenal???
Have your friend contact me and I will give him/her the details, since I
live I northern NJ close to Picatinny and Parsippany.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Kienle wants a recommendation for the best/easiest to use Counter
Pressure filler
Contact Braukunst 800(?) theirs was selected by Zymurgy or BT a few moths
ago as the best and easiest to use, I believe. They have one which is
relatively easy to clean and has a small amount of metal to cool. The
exhaust port is an adjustable spring loaded ball valve. I made a very minor
modification which allows me to reach the bottom of short and tall bottles
just by sliding the stopper up and down on a ( 3/4 inch?) longer piece of
tubing than supplied. After I finished modifying it, I realized I could
have simply put a short piece of plastic tubing on the beer tube and I
could have reached the bottom of all bottles. Such is the life of the A/R
brewer.
(besides yet another trip to Home Depot to build my
Own!)?
Don't bother it will cost as much or more if you make it from brass, will
be bigger and have a lot more places to clean ( or infect your beer). Been
there, done that. It does make a nice bar ornament though.
- ---------------------------------------------
Sorry, I lost the inquirer's name:
Questions are 1.) has anybody tried the mini keg sytems? , and are they a
Good investment?
They are if you don't have a spare refrigerator or place to put a spare
refrigerator and you want beer on tap instead of the bottle. They do give
an excellent head to beer because they have a very fine needle control
valve but decarbonate the beer in the process. Be sure you buy the geman
brand which is mostly stainless steel. I have heard from my HB guy that
the all plastic ones stink and he had to return them because they were not
reliable. Others have given me the same story. You can recycle the
plastic and rubber fittings by using a pair of needle nosed pliers to pull
the rubber stopper out of the keg after you finish the beer. They can't
take too much carbonation sugar as you will get bulging of the ends and
crinkling of the metal. Stay around 4 ounces of sugar or below per 5
gallons of beer. Don't plan on carbonating with those little cartridges.
I don't know of a fitting which will allow you to carbonate with a CO2
cylinder. Anybody? The cans can't be moved too much since they are
naturally carbonated - sorta like the bottles.
My preference would be a cornie keg system for a little more money. You
can force carbonate or naturally carbonate as you wish. You can adjust the
carbonation level as you wish during the life of the beer With the
appropriate attachments you can filter and counterpresssure fill bottles.
Some 3 gallon kegs are making their way into the used market now so this
may be a solution for all.
Just a thought, you can even fill the above minikegs with carbonated beer
and have beer on tap in your regular fridge. In the absence of a separate
dedicated beer fridge, to fill them, you would have to cool the cornie,
perhaps with ice for several hours, but it might work.
2.) I am using bleach to sanitize....Okay or not.
Generally a good idea, just don't soak any stainless steel pressure vessels
( like a cornie) in a bleach solution for a long time as you will get
corrosion and cracks which can cause the cornie to leak or rupture. There
are sanitizers which are not chloride containing and are recommended for
S.S. For most plastic and glass containers I use a small amount of bleach
full strength ( the caustic helps lift organic compounds) , coat the
insides by rotation and then dilute it, then rinse with boiling water three
times. ALWAYS wear glasses and gloves when you are handling bleach. No beer
is worth an eye. I also have a plastic apron ( with the Welsh language on
it) which I use to keep harmony with the chief clothes washer in the house.
3.) What kind of beer or recipe can I make for guests and friends that
Do not share a passion for good beers....you all know the ones- That beer
is
Too dark, or that is too bitter, do you have coors light(egad).
Buy them Coors Light. Or better, suggest to them to buy it themselves and
bring it to the party. Alternatively, they might like a Kolsch style of a
blonde ale. Not too bitter, not too dark, juuust right.
- ---------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
201-492-1371 fone and fax
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2402, 04/22/97
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