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HOMEBREW Digest #2395
HOMEBREW Digest #2395 Fri 11 April 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
digital thermometers (UTC -04:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com>
Where to classify Strong Scoth Ale with Rye? (Jim Means)
Brown vs Green bottles. ("Rodroy Fingerhead")
Recipe - Request for comments (Charles Burns)
PID temperature control for RIMS ("Keith Royster")
What makes a nut brown a "NUT" brown (Curt)
gravity (Scott Campbell)
Hot water (Scott Dornseif)
Partial-mash recipe request ("Ellery.Samuels")
1997 GAzBF Results ("RICHARD DRAKE")
Fix mash schedule / more decoction stuff / Adnam's yeast ("Louis K. Bonham")
Re: Steeping versus Partial-Mash (Dave Riedel)
fast maturing beers (James Murphy)
Wahl-Henius (Glenn Raudins)
Cooler mash tun/Aluminum brew ware (Joseph Bonner)
starch grits/gelatinization (BAYEROSPACE)
More pressure decoction ("Charles Rich")
all-grain extraction (Dave Whitman)
Hop Profiles Pt V (John Goldthwaite)
RE: Digital Thermometers ("Jim Thomas")
Mead ("Ted Major")
UK Admiral Hops ("Penn, Thomas")
Re: Black-N-Tan (Scott Abene)
bathroom scale ("Bryan L. Gros")
First Notice: Boneyard Brew-Off, Champaign-Urbana ("Joel Plutchak")
Grain analysis ("Layne")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 07:55:27 EDT
From: "Rich Byrnes USAET(UTC -04:00)" <rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com>
Subject: digital thermometers
Greetings all! Someone asked about digital thermometers yesterday and
I thought I would throw in my $.02. If this is the Polder thermometer
with timer, temp and temp alarm it is a GREAT unit, if you take the
necessary precautions. Although nowhere in the documentation does it
warn against immersing your probe in boiling or HOT liquid, don't do it!
I verified with their cust. service dept. yesterday that the braided
portion of the probe is not heat proof and the wires inside (well, the
insulation) could melt and short the probe. The solution is quite simple
and much better. First, straighten the curved portion of the probe, use
a vise to make it nice and straight. Now, go to your friendly hardware
store and buy 3 things, a 30" lavorotory pick up tube (in plumbing section),
a compression fitting for that tube (3/8 if memory serves) and an end cap
for that fitting. attatch one end of the comp fitting to the pickup tube,
slide your probe through the tube until the end sticks out about 3", drill
a small hole in the center of the end cap (just big enough to push the probe
through, don't remember what size) and apply Dow Dap silicone to the inside
of the cap so that any gap between the hole you drilled and the actual probe
won't leak into the tube. Now throw some teflon tape on the compression
fitting and screw the endcap on with your probe. As a precaution take a
hose clamp and clamp the dangling braid to the top of the tube so that it
doesn't pull out.
Voila! You now have a 30" long RIGID probe for measuring different heights
in your mash, I would order an additional probe ($10) just to keep around
the brewery for measuring wort samples and other things that a 3' long probe
would make difficult. Polders 800 number is 431-2133, the thermometer is
model 632 (or polderwire@aol.com)
The total cost for this modification is under $10
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com (_)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 07:57:58 -0400
From: Jim Means <jrmeans@diamond.nb.net>
Subject: Where to classify Strong Scoth Ale with Rye?
Hi folks,
Just bottled a Strong Scotch Ale last night.
Difference in the recipe is a pound of flaked rye.
Turned out great! Dark brown, malty and clear with
a backgrounded "rye" taste. Yumm!
Just wondering where in the AHA style guidelines
this might fall, in case I entered it in a competition.
Is it still a "10b"?
Jim in Pittsburgh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 05:38:18 PDT
From: "Rodroy Fingerhead" <sjbh64@hotmail.com>
Subject: Brown vs Green bottles.
Homebrewers:
This has probably been covered here in detail, but I'm new to
homebrewing so I apologize for my ignorance. I'm about to try
homebrewing and I have been saving green bottles from a popular
European beer. Now I'm hearing that brown bottles are better.
Here's the rub, the beer will be stored in a dark place, so
perhaps this is a moot point. Any advice?
Thanks
Rodroy Fingerhead
Twenty four hours in a day - twenty four beers in a case -
Coincidence?
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 05:51 PDT
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Recipe - Request for comments
Here's what I have so far for my "nut" brown recipe. Please comment as this
is my first American Brown. I know, its too dark, but how's it gonna taste?
Bubba's Brown Ale
Malts/Sugars:
0.25 lb. Belgian Special-B
1.00 lb. Cara-Pils Dextrine
4.00 lb. DWC Munich
6.00 lb. Hugh Baird Pale Ale
2.00 lb. Crystal 80L
0.25 lb. Roast Barley
0.25 lb. Chocolate
Hops:
0.75 oz. Chinook 10.0% 60 min
1.00 oz. Cascade 4.5% 5 min
1.00 oz. Mt Hood 6.5% 30 min
Mash Temperature: 158F
Wyeast 1056 @ 62F
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:55:23 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster@pex.net>
Subject: PID temperature control for RIMS
Hello HBD!
I've recently made some improvements to my RIMS system that I wanted
to share with everyone. I have recently added automated temperature
control to my RIMS as well as upgraded my heating chamber (the first
one was undersized). The automatic temperature control is achieved
using a PID temperature controller from Omega Engineering
(www.omega.com). Dion Hollenbeck first mentioned the idea of using a
PID to me a few months ago (thanks for the idea, Dion!) and since I
have not heard of it mentioned before I thought I would share my
experience.
This nifty little device is perfect for those who don't want to or
can't build their own Rodney Morris style temperature controller. In
fact, I'd venture to say that it is a better device than any other
RIMS controller on the market for two reasons:
First, it actually learns how your system reacts to heating and it
adjusts itself so that it reaches your set point as quickly as
possible without overshooting it. Other RIMS controllers I've seen
on the market require constant observation during temperature boosts
so that you can cut the power back a few degrees prior to reaching
your target temp and then it just maintains the temperature. The
PID, on the other hand, is completely automated both during the
boost ("ramps") and during temp maintenance ("soaks"). PID stands
for Proportional, Integral, Differential, so it is actually using
calculus to "know" when to begin backing off on the power so as not
to overshoot your target temp. Furthermore, it has an auto-tune mode
where it learns how your system reacts to heating (for example oil
would take longer to heat than water) and it fills in the P,I, and D
variables so that it can reach your setpoint as quickly as possible
without overshooting. You just dial in your set point temp and walk
away while it "ramps and soaks". If you are doing a step mash then
you just set a timer and after it goes off you dial in the next
target temp and walk away.
Second, it has a digital LED temperature display. This is just neat
because you can visually keep an eye on your mash temperature without
having to check a thermometer. Plus you can watch the temp rise and
then hold steady as the PID does its magic. This same digital
display is also used when you dial in your target mash temp.
Anyway, I just wanted to share this idea with everyone. If you are
interested in more details, I have updated and improved my RIMS web
page (address below). Information including photos, where I bought
the parts, prices, and specific part numbers are included. I've
done a lot of updating of my RIMS web page so even if you've seen it
before I'd appreciate some feedback regarding the general look.
Happy Brewing!
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina
"An Engineer is someone who measures it with a micrometer,
marks it with a piece of chalk, and cuts it with an ax!"
mailto:Keith.Royster@pex.net
http://dezines.com/@your.service -@your.service
http://dezines.com/@your.service/cbm -Carolina BrewMasters club page
http://dezines.com/@your.service/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 09:27:59 -0400
From: Curt <curtcip@interstat.net>
Subject: What makes a nut brown a "NUT" brown
- --I'm working up a recipe that hopefully comes close to DownTown Brown
from
the Lost Coast Brewing Co in Eureka CA. They call it a "nut" brown, I
call
it malty and chewy, lightly hopped and yummy. Any advice on giving it a
"nutty" flavor (no I won't add pecans).--
Asks Charley.
I've found that adding small (1/4 pound per 5 gal) amounts of choc malt
or toasted malt (20 min or so at 300 or so) adds a nutty flavor.
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 07:26:36 -0600
From: Scott Campbell <scampbell@landstroms.com>
Subject: gravity
A couple of days ago a friend and I were bottling our
first partial mash (English bitter). I figured it was
ready for bottling because of the minimal amount of
activity in the air lock. We did not take a hydrometer
reading until the priming sugar and beer were in the
bottling bucket (oops). Our first reading was 1.02 which
was a little high for our tastes. We decided to take
another reading at the end of bottling thinking that
the first reading may have had an overdose of priming
sugar. To our surprise the second reading was almost
1.04. This really blew our minds. Does anyone have
any idea why this might have happened. Your comments
would be greatly appreciated.
S. Campbell
Rapid City, SD
Ale Riders
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 09:17:11 -0500
From: Scott Dornseif <roundboy@wwa.com>
Subject: Hot water
Randy:
The "reasons" given to me for not using hot water from the tap are:
1): The hot water picks up more lead from the plumbing than cold water.
2): The water picks up more mineral content while being stored in the
"crusty" tank. #2 does NOT make sense to me.
Anyway a $15 whole house water filter with a $4 carbon cartridge will
remove enough lead and chlorine from your water to make it safe more
usable and quite tasty. It may remove some of the mineral content you
want in your beer, but if you are into treating your brew water
anyway...
AND If you "plumb the filter with tubing and use a female hose connector
on the "in" side you can use the filter 'bout anywhere, kitchen sink,
outide hose etc.
Scott Dornseif
roundboy@wwa.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 13:37:48 EDT
From: "Ellery.Samuels" <esamuel@mvsb.nycenet.edu>
Subject: Partial-mash recipe request
I am looking to move from all extract brewing to using the partial mash
technique. If you have a recipe that you have tried successfully I would
appreciate your sending to me (e-mail ok) with directions for time, temp.,
etc..
Any hints, suggestions in this area, whether you send recipe or not, would be
greatly appreciated.
Thanx,
Ellery
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 19:15:44 UT
From: "RICHARD DRAKE" <HARDROCKENGR@msn.com>
Subject: 1997 GAzBF Results
I would like to thank all those brewers, judges and stewards that participated
in the 1997 GAzBF Homebrew Competition. The list of the first three places is
as follows:
1997 GAzBF Winners list
Beer Style First Second Third
Barley Wine Greg Scharrer John Vogt Nilsen Paul Lachmanek
Belgian/French Ale James Gregg James Ortegus Mitch Hill
Belgian Style Lambic Stephen McMillan Greg Scharrer Not Awarded
Mild and Brown Ale Paul Gunn Brian Haggit Allan
Toogood
English Pale Ale Zachary Hilgers George Fix Allan
Toogood
American Style Ale Ron Thomas Brad Cross Greg
Scharrer
English Bitter Jim Volker Zachary Hilgers Randy
Denofsky
Scottish Ale Not Awarded Michael Wilberding
Michael Fennessy
Porter Greg Scharrer Alan Toogood
Zachary Hilgers
English & Strong Greg Scharrer Miguel Padilla
Not Awarded
Scotch
Stouts Stephen McMillan Arthur Moore Miguel Padilla
Bock Greg Scharrer Randy Drwinga Paul
Gunn
German Dark Lager Chris Hamilton Paul Claassen Ron Thomas
German Light Lager Not Awarded Randy Drwinga Not Awarded
Classic Pilsner Greg Scharrer Dave Hinkle George Fix
American Lager Doug Chaffee Greg Scharrer Steve McClain
V M O Carl Wargula Not Awarded Not Awarded
German Style Ale Dave Hinkle Randy Denofsky Paul Lachmanek
German Style Wheat Paul Claassen Steve McClain Greg Scharrer
Smoked Beer Ted Rosenzweig Charles Vigorita Charles Scott
Fruit and Vegetable Brian Haggit Randy Pote Randy Pote
Herb and Spice Matt Stinchfield Zachary Hilgers Randy Drwinga
Specialty Beer William Lee Charles Vigorita Greg Gregory
California Common Diane Ramey Carl Gustafson Steve Newton
Traditional Mead & Terrance McCarthy Randy Drwinga Zachary Hilgers
Braggot
Fruit and Vegetable Scott Barzona Not Awarded Not Awarded
Mead
Cider Ron Kloth Greg Scharrer David Holt
Rick Drake
GAzBF - Organizer
Brewmeisters Anonymous - VP
BJCP- Certified
hardrockengr@msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 14:26:07 -0500
From: "Louis K. Bonham" <lkbonham@phoenix.net>
Subject: Fix mash schedule / more decoction stuff / Adnam's yeast
I've noticed a number of people refer to Dr. Fix's preferred
mash schedule as "40-60-70"; i.e., a first rest at 40C (104F),
followed by rests at 60C (140F) and 70C (158F). This is not
correct. As George says:
http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/Fix-mash.html
> I strongly prefer moderately modified malt for lager beer,
> and I have found that a protein rest at 50C (122F) has
> numerous advantages. I have done test brews with a 40-50-60-70
> schedule, but little is gained in yield over a 50-60-70 program.
> I personally am going to stick with the latter since among other
> things half of the 3 gals of transition water can be used to go
> from 50 to 60, while the other half can be used to go from 60 to
> 70.
George confirmed the 50-60-70 scheudle in materials he presented
in a seminar I produced a few years ago.
On the decoction thread, Dr. Fix recently sent me a copy
of an article with lots of very interesting data on a
number of points that Dr. Pivo (sorry about that earlier
misspelling, BTW), Steve A., and other have raised.
Check it out:
G. Sommer, "Trials for the Optimisation of Mashing Procedure,"
Brauwelt International 1986 (1), p. 23.
This article details Henninger-Brau AG's evaluation of
infusion v. decoction mashing, both in laboratory and
brewhouse conditions. (It concludes that the qualitative
differences in beers produced with decoction vs. infusion
mashes were "extradinordinally small," and that, "based on a
large number of tasting trials it could be confirmed that the
taste was not changed" by converting from decoction to infusion
mashing.
This article contains lots of good info on other aspects of
mashing, incluing the 50-60-70 schedule and data that
contradicts the notion that thick mashes contribute
anything *except* in the rare case where you need to do
a protein rest. Well worth reading.
Finally, I'm still searching for a source of the yeast used in
Adnam's Extra. If anyone knows of a commercial source for this
or has a sample in their yeast bank, please drop me a line.
Louis K. Bonham
lkbonham@phoenix.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 12:54:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL@ios.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Steeping versus Partial-Mash
John Sullivan <sullvan@anet-stl.com> writes that he feels steeping specialty
grains is "not a sound method for a brewer looking to advance his technique"
because "Steeping grains is:
> Limiting (i.e. you cannot steep all types of grains)
> A crapshoot (you do not know how much extract you will get)
> Potentially Problematic (unconverted starch)"
I don't agree with this. Understanding the benefits of moving to steeping as
a method requires that you keep in mind that the brewer is likely coming from
'kit-brewing'. Steeping allows much greater control over the brewing process
than does kit brewing. I think it's the natural step in improving brewing
technique and understanding. True, you cannot steep all types of grains, but
crystal, chocolate, roasted barley and black patent offer the improving
brewer with a myriad of recipe possibilities. As for the extraction crapshoot,
I hardly think this is going to cause any loss of sleep; the amount of
additional points is minimal. Unconverted starch is only a problem if 'mash-
only' malts are steeped.
>It is a simple move from steeping to partial mashing. Partial mashing
Perhaps this is true in retrospect to an all-grainer, but I beg to differ.
Steeping takes little more than 30 mins to accomplish. You generally heat
your brewing water to dissolve the extracts before boiling anyway, so the
added time is from crushing and steeping. Partial mashing is far more time
consuming. The mash itself takes more than 30 mins, then there is recirc.,
runoff and sparge to consider. It also requires additional equipment and it
is much more involved technique-wise. To a newbie who is already finding the
tasks of cleaning and sanitizing arduous, I think the move to partial mashing
is a big one.
John then states:
>somewhat in the same fashion as you would for an all grain batch. Though
>a partial mash provides additional fermentables, the objective of the
>technique is to improve the flavor of your beer. Partial mashers should
Despite lacking the obvious possibilities of improved body, head-retention and
maltiness (say by the addition of Munich malts), steeping is a great way to
achieve flavour enhancement. While I do not in any way disagree that moving
to partial-mashing has it's advantages, I don't think it's necessarily a
better choice than moving to steeping. I like the steeping method because it's
also a good way to introduce the use of hops rather than hopped extracts.
If you are a newbie that has his sights on becoming an all-grain brewer as
fast as possible, then by all means jump into partial-mashing right away. But,
be aware that your brew day will increase in complexity considerably. If you
are simply interested in improving your understanding of recipe formulation
and what ingredients 'make a porter taste like a porter', I don't hesitate to
recommend the steeping method.
Here's to great beer by whatever method you choose,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:54:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Murphy <murphy@gordy.ucdavis.edu>
Subject: fast maturing beers
Hi all,
A friend will be getting married in mid-May and just asked me if I could
brew some beer for the wedding. Given the short notice (5 weeks), I'm
pretty limited on the types of beer I can brew. I'm interested in some
feedback on 2 or 3 styles that will mature quickly enough to be ready for
the wedding. I plan to brew some sort of ale this weekend, give it 7 days
in the primary, about 7 days in the secondary and 3 weeks to mature in
bottles (I don't have kegs).
My limited experience has been that some ales need much more than 3 weeks
to mature, at least that's been the case for my "darker" ales such as
porter and brown ale. I'm guessing that a lightly hopped fruit ale using
fruit extract might work ok since the extract might cover up any of the
"harshness." Any other suggestions on styles, or even general guidelines
for what I should/shouldn't do?
Thanks,
Jim Murphy -- Davis, CA
jjmurphy@ucdavis.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 14:29:00 -0700
From: Glenn Raudins <raudins@lightscape.com>
Subject: Wahl-Henius
JohnT6020@aol.com writes:
>Jeff mentioned that he was following a Henius-Wahl schedule. That
>reminds me that I posted a request a couple of weeks ago requesting
>information on where I might be able to obtain copies of the H-W
>series of books.
Wahl-Henius published the "American Handy Book of the Brewing, Malting,
and Auxialary Trades." (They may have published other items also.)
Brewing Techniques has been working on re-publishing this book. Here is
the response I got from Brewing Techniques:
"We are still planning to publish this work, though it won't be until
late 1997. The project is huge, and if we are to do it "right"
(complete
unabridged republication) we will have an expensive book with a limited
market. We are definitely still pursuing it, but it must of necessity
take a back seat to our regular business (BrewingTechniques magazine and
the Brewers' Market Guide)."
Glenn
raudins@lightscape.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 18:50:58 -0400
From: bonnerj@rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Joseph Bonner)
Subject: Cooler mash tun/Aluminum brew ware
Hi all,
First, thanks for all the great advice and discussion. I've learned a lot
in three or four short months.
In HBD #2393, John Sullivan <sullvan@anet-stl.com> gave a nice explanation
on how to use a "lemon ade" cooler to partial mash. This brought to mind
some questions I have about moving into partial- and all-grain brewing.
I've been thinking about converting a Gott cooler into a mash/lauter tun
and I've done a lot of searching through the HBD archives and the Brewery's
technical library. One of my questions is how much does tun size (i.e.,
volume) affect mashing. Specifically, is a five gallon cooler going to be
too big to effectively partial mash? I'm thinking in terms of the depth of
the grain bed. Is there a minimum amount of grain (and mash water) that
needs to be used? Economically, purchasing and modifying a five gallon
cooler makes a lot of sense (at least to me). When the time comes when I'm
ready to go all grain, I'll be equipped. This of course begs another
question: If I'm going to invest the time and do a partial mash, why not go
to a full mash?
In shopping around, the Gott coolers seem to be very elusive, at least in
NYC. The new Kmart near Madison Square Garden does carry Igloo coolers,
however. (We're very proud of our new Kmart.) Are these comparable to the
Gott?
TIA. Any and all comments, suggestions and advice will be greatly
appreciated. Private e-mail is fine. I'll post a summary.
- ----
In HBD #2391, Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur@ds.mc.ti.com> noted some apprehension
about using an aluminum pressure cooker for decoctions. Russ, I think the
rumours that link Al with Alzheimer's have been greatly exaggerated
(apologies to Mark Twain).
<soapbox>
I think this may turn out to be another case of junk science, right up
there with cold fusion.
</soapbox>
AFAIK, there has been no direct evidence pointing to a causal link between
the two. Although the cause is still unknown, most research into the
cause(s) of AD focuses on genetic factors--it is inherited in some
families--and the role of proteins in the brain that seem to contribute to
the formation of the tangles and plaques that are the hallmarks of the
disease.
I think you'll be OK. Personally, I think life's too short to worry about
getting AD from aluminum. In fact, one researcher plotted age of onset of
AD against population lifespan and figured that if people lived to be 130
or 140 years old, everybody would develop Alzheimer's! (Although, this I
also take with a grain of salt.)
Joe Bonner
New York, NY
mailto:bonnerj@rockvax.rockefeller.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:56 -0600
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject: starch grits/gelatinization
collective homebrew conscience:
charlie s wrote:
>No, it doesn't make sense because gelatinisation is necessary for starch
>flour to be converted by enzymes into simple reducing sugars. Balling is the
>same problem as uncrushed malt, it impedes gelatinisation. Excess flour
>usually causes an fairly impervious top dough that makes lautering difficult.
yes, but would you agree that *if* you could avoid the balling problem, that
extremely finely ground malt, not including the husks, would
saccharify quicker (like, before all the enzyme population is decimated)
than very coarsely ground malt? this is the ideal that al k was referring to.
this idea comes from different homebrewing books and articles, where the
"ideal" crush is said to be crushing the non-husk portion of the malt
as finely as you can without destroying the husk too much. six roller malt
mills are employed to get closer to this ideal crush. otherwise why would
the big guys use six roller mills? what sort of tremendous "balling" problems
are the big guys using six roller mills having? maybe they should all switch
to two roller mills. maybe the problem is that they've never heard of two
roller mills. we should really help anheuser out and reveal to them the
superiority of the two roller mill. jack, how many maltmills(tm) do you think
anheuser would need? several thousand i would think.
********************
i wrote:
>>I routinely find starch grits in my lauter tun, after the sparge is over.
>>this represents lost extract. If these pieces of starch had been more finely
>>ground, they would have been available to the enzymes to convert, and more
>>extract would be the result.
>No, a homebrewer will never grind down flour to a single starch granule size
>and then crush that so that enzymes may attack it. This is called
>"micronised flour", not even a MM can do that for a homebrewer! It must be
>GELATINISED, I think this is your problem .
let me first say that, yes, i totally agree that starch must be made available
to the enzymes before they can convert it. we really don't much mention
gelatinization in this forum; it seems like it's implied most of the time.
but, are you arguing that i would *not* get better extraction if i were somehow
able to grind those starch grits more finely? to me it seems like there is
starch inside that starch grit that never got gelatinized and subsequently
saccharified. i propose that a "more ideal" crush would lead to more
gelatinization, saccharification, and thus extract.
the starch grits i find in my lauter tun have been through a decoction mash
and usually a 2 hour saccharification rest between 151 and 156 F, typically.
how is it that gelatinization is my problem? how can i better gelatinize
these starch grits without a better quality crush? (smaller grits/preserving
husks) should i stand by the mash tun and stir for two hours?
**************
i also wrote:
>>Now, why do i get a negative reaction for starch from the iodine test even
>>though i'm finding starch in my lauter tun? because as soon as a little
>>piece of starch breaks off the big starch grit, it gets converted. Actually,
>>the enzymes are gathered round the starch grit like sharks around a whale,
>>tearing off pieces and converting them simultaneously.
charlie responded:
>No, enzymes are not piranhas, they are catalysts. Starch needs to be in
>solution in the form of a SOL or GEL. Insoluble but wet starch (ie
>ungelatinised) can be helped (when wet)in becoming a GEL by alpha amlayse,
>but heat does the job more effectively and faster.
okay, i admit that's probably an inaccurate analogy. you wouldn't see a
jacques cousteau film in a microscope, but the basic point i was trying to
make is that you can't get starch to saccharify (or, first, gelatinize) if
it's bound up in a big starch grit. it needs to be physically broken out,
either by gradual gelatinization from the outside (the sharks), or by
physically crushing the grit into pieces to expose more surface area for
gelatinization and subsequent saccharification.
i'm not mashing at 140 degrees, charlie. i'm not sure why you believe my
problem is primarily with gelatinization. my mashes don't gelatinize as much
as they should because i have big starch grits from a two roller mill. that's
a crush problem first. the gelatinization problem comes after.
this whole discussion started with al k describing what the ideal (impossible)
crush would be like. of course, practically you can't achieve it, but i
still agree with him that the ideal we should shoot for is grinding the
inner portion of the malt as finely as possible and leaving the husks intact.
we're never even going to get close to it with the equipment we have. this
ignores the balling problem because with a two roll mill you're
probably going to have problems with finely ground husk before you run into
a lot of flour and balling difficulties. this is my experience.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 22:38:45 -0700
From: "Charles Rich" <riches@halcyon.com>
Subject: More pressure decoction
Greetings,
Just a follow up. I pressure canned four jars of decoc this sunday to
watch their keeping qualities over a month or two. Frankly, I'm so
confident of their keeping qualities that I kind of wonder why I'd
bothered. But I planned to present it to other palates and get their
opinions, too. Tuesday, several members of a local homebrew club tasted it
and the reaction was unanimous, a truly great tasting decoc. Huge flavor,
no bitterness or tannins, and a big, complex malty profile. Some thought I
had been joking until they tasted.
The idea of canning decoction may appeal to those using smaller pressure
cookers or canners, since a few jars could be put up at a time until enough
are laid by for The-Big-Decoc. I found that nursing little quart jars of
mash through protein rest and saccharification before cooking was a pain
but manageable. A half-pound (250g) of grain and a half-quart (500ml) of
water fills a quart (1L) jar about 2/3's after cooking. 1-1/2 pounds (700g)
at the same ratio should fill a half-gallon (2L) jar nicely. Three pounds
should fill a gallon jar.
I reserved one jar after cooking them all for forty minutes at 250F (121C),
and I cooked it another twenty minutes to note the difference in browning.
It wasn't much different. The practical cooking time appears to be between
twenty (earlier post) and forty minutes at that temp. It becomes very
brown.
When cooking grains and especially legumes (not in my beer) in a pressure
cooker you must keep them covered inside the cooker to prevent sputtering
bits from obstructing the pressure gauge and vent. A big piece of foil
works fine. A loosely lidded jar is safe. Blocking the vent or guage can
result in a deadly accident, so read the instructions.
I've had email problems since friday, if I haven't responded to your recent
mail, please send again.
Take care,
Charles Rich (Seattle, USA)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:12:27
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman@rohmhaas.com>
Subject: all-grain extraction
In HBD#2394, Tim Watkins asks for advice on low all-grain extraction yields.
Tim, there are two fundemental things that can lead to poor yields:
1. poor conversion of starch to sugar
2. poor washing of sugar out of the grain bed
Your negative starch test suggests that (2) is the problem, although I
don't know how much I trust that test. To check for poor washing, try
tasting little bits of the grain from different areas of your tun after
lautering. It should taste grainy, but not sweet. I caught a problem in
my tun design this way, finding a region of my grain bed that was very
sweet after lautering. Turned out that was a dead flow spot that didn't
get properly extracted. Correcting this boosted yield 10% from 27 to 30
pt*gal/lb.
I wouldn't expect uneven flow in a zapap-style tun, but who knows?
Increasing the depth of water above the bed (while restricting outflow)
might help get into any dead spots you find.
Another thing to do is monitor the SG of your runnings over time. If they
aren't falling off, that's a sign that the whole bed isn't being
effectively washed. If the gravity of your final runnings is high mashout
will probably help, as would slower sparging.
Getting a better crush could help conversion if your crush is too coarse.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 08:48:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: ir358@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite)
Subject: Hop Profiles Pt V
Nugget--Domestic--All Purpose
Selected from a cross between Brewer's Gold and a high alpha male.
Alpha Acid: 12-14% Beta Acid: 4-6%
Aroma: Quite heavy and herbal, spicy.
Storage: 70-80%
Used For: Extremely bitter. Medium to Dark ales and lagers.
Subs: Chinook, Galena, Cluster
Perle--Domestic--All Purpose
Derived from English Notheren Brewer, new to the U.S. industry.
Alpha Acid: 7-9.5% Beta Acid: 4-5%
Aroma: Pleasant, slightly spicy
Storage: 80-85%
Used For: Minty bittering and good "green hop" aromas. All non-
pilsener lagers, wheats
Subs: Northern Brewer, Cluster, Galena
Polnischer Lublin--Imported (Poland)--Finishing
Another source of the classical noble-aroma type hop with long
and strong traditions. Widely believed to be a clone of Saaz.
Alpha Acid: 3-4.5% Beta Acid: 2.3-3.8%
Aroma: Mild and typical of noble aroma types.
Storage: 40-55%
Used For: Finishing
Subs: Czech Saaz, Tettnang
Pride of Ringwood--Imported (Australia)--All Purpose
At the time of release in 1965 it was the highest alpha hop
in the world. closely associated with such famous beers as
Foster's Lager.
Alpha Acid: 7-10% Beta Acid: 5.3-6.5%
Aroma: Quite pronounced but not unpleasant, citrus-like.
Storage: 45-55%
Used For: Finishing, very flavorful. Pilseners, Continental
Used For: Disregard above. Predominantly bittering but with
interesting aromatic qualities. British ales, Australian-
style ales and lagers.
Subs: Centennial, Galena, Cluster
- --
BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER
BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER BREWMOREBEER!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 8:21:11 CDT
From: "Jim Thomas" <jim.thomas@telops.gte.com>
Subject: RE: Digital Thermometers
Brewers,
In HBD 2393, Mac asks about a digital thermometer he saw at a barbecue
shop. I offer the following...
I have a feeling from the description he offers, that the thermometer
unit is the same one I have. It's white plastic, with a large LCD
display, with timer and temperature readouts, with a shielded metal
probe. Mine is made by Polder, and I purchased it from Kitchen Bazaar
for $30.
I used mine several times before encountering some problems. In fact,
the problems led to my return of the unit for another. This is what
happened: It would read accurate temperatures "ramping up," that is,
monitoring strike water temp, checking mash temp etc. But, once the
probe was removed from the hot water/mash, the temperature reading would
ramp down partially. So in other words, removing the probe from a 155
degree mash into a 72 degree environment, the temperature readout would
never go below, say 95 degrees. It just seems to get stuck. There is
nothing predictable about this at all. I'm on my second unit and it's
doing the same thing. Problem I have now, is that Kitchen Bazaar in
Dallas has gone out of business, so I don't have an easy way of returing
it.
When this thing worked, though it was great.
My advice: If this unit is made by Polder, buyer beware.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:59:57 -0400
From: "Ted Major"<tmajor@exrhub.exr.com>
Subject: Mead
Latelty there have been several posts asking about mead making. The mead
digest covers such topics in detail.. To subscribe, send a message with a
body that reads "subscribe" to mead-request@talisman.com.
To provide a little further help, here's a recipe my wife and I have had
great success with, which I found in a 14th C English MS.
Boil one gallon of honey (Sourwood is my favorite if you can get it, but
grocery store honey works in a pinch) with four gallons of water for about
15 mins while skimming the foam that rises. Chill the must, and add to the
dregs left in the primary (or secondary) fermenter from a batch of your
favorite ale. Aerate and let ferment to completion, racking once or twice
as you think necessary. Bottle when complete. I like to prime with a half
cup of corn sugar for a light carbonation, but the choice of still or
sparkling is up to you.
Breow hael!
Ted Major
Athens GA
tmajor@exr.com
------------------------------
Date: 10 Apr 1997 10:04:36 -0400
From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas@msgw.vf.lmco.com>
Subject: UK Admiral Hops
Thanks to Dave Riedel for the hop survey-what I thought would be a mundane
exercise yielded some interesting info because of how the results were
presented. I have to note that the popular hop varieties are parallel to the
hops used in two popular craft brews, Sierra Nevada (Perle/Cascade) and Sam
Adams beers (EKG and others).
A question: I have some UK Admiral hops (13.3% alpha) left in my freezer, and
I can't find any info on them. I believe that they're best used as a
bittering hop for stout-can anyone provide any insight?
Tom Penn
Bordentown, NJ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:23:57 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Black-N-Tan
KennyEddy@aol.com
Wrote:
>Subject: Black-N-Tan
>
>A further speculation on the Floating Guiness phenomenon is that perhaps the
>dissolved nitrogen in draft Guiness helps suspend the liquid at the top of
>the glass?
I went through a big Black and Tan phase a couple of years ago... I found it
almost impossible to pour a good Black and Tan until I went out and got a
Nitrogen (75%) Co2 (25%) mix tank.
I too feel that the dissolved Nitrogen helps suspend the Guinness on top of
the Bass...
I actually took the time to pour the Ale with a standard Co2 tap and then
pushed the Stout with the Nitrogen (75%) Co2 (25%) mix tank.
Can you say anal retentive??? Well it worked great.
Any of you science types out there got a good tech. explanation of Black and
Tans?
C'ya!
-Scott "Where's me God Damn Bagpipes and Plaid" Abene
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
# "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" #
################################################################
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: bathroom scale
Rick wrote:
>George, you should report these jokers to your state's Department of
>Commerce's division of weights and measures. It is illegal in all 50
>states to use a spring-based uncompensated scale like a bathroom scale
>for retail trade..... These people are perpetrating retail fraud on their
>unwitting customers.
Just like when I order a pint at a brewpub and I get 12 ounces in a
drink-mixing glass....
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:32:27 -0500
From: "Joel Plutchak" <joel@bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu>
Subject: First Notice: Boneyard Brew-Off, Champaign-Urbana
Announcing the 3rd Annual B.U.Z.Z. Boneyard Brew-Off
Brewers, start your kettles! Judges, mark your calendars!
The Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots (B.U.Z.Z.) is organizing our
third annual homebrew competition. The competition is sanctioned by the
American Homebrewers Association (AHA) and the Beer Judge Certification
Program (BJCP), and is registered as a Midwest Homebrewer of the Year
event.
When: Saturday, June 14, 1997
What: Any homebrewed beer or mead. For purposes of this competition,
"homebrewed" is defined as any beer not brewed in, by, or for
commercial facilities or organizations. Brew-on-Premises
shops are considered to be commercial facilities.
Where: The address to which entries should be sent will be posted in
May.
Entries:
Standard AHA 1997 Style Guidelines for beer and mead will be used to
judge entries; no sake or cider will be judged. Categories may be
combined or collapsed at the discretion of the competition staff,
though every attempt will be made to award ribbons in each category.
Additional special category:
No One Gets Out Alive High Gravity Brew-Off
Sole Requirement: Starting gravity over 1.070. Entries will
be judged strictly on potency and overall drinkability.
Winner of this category will not be eligible for Best of Show,
but will receive a special trophy.
*** PLEASE NOTE: Entries accepted May 27 through June 9, 1997 ONLY! ***
Walk-ins allowed with prior notice if entry forms are received
during the above period.
On-line entry forms and further shipping instructions will appear
here and at at <http://starfire.ne.uiuc.edu/buzz/contest3.html> in
early May.
Fee: $5 per entry; $4 per entry for four or more per brewer.
2 bottles per entry; standard AHA bottle requirements apply:
10 - 14 ounce, crown capped, plain brown or green glass
with no raised lettering or other distinguishing marks.
Sponsors
========
The B.U.Z.Z. would like to thank the following sponsor(s):
* Picadilly Beverage Shops, Champaign IL
* Two Brothers Brewing Company, Warrenville IL
For more information about becoming a sponsor, contact the Competition
Organizer.
Judges welcome! We plan a raffle, Frdiay evening gathering, dinner
Saturday evening, and all the usual B.U.Z.Z. festivities. Please
contact the Judge Director or Competition Organizer for more details.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organizer: Registrar:
Joel Plutchak Daniel Juliano
email: plutchak@uiuc.edu email: dan@starfire.ne.uiuc.edu
916 W. Charles Street
Champaign IL 61821
(217) 359-4931 (eves & wkends) <=== preferred
(217) 333-8132 (M-F, 8am-4pm)
Judge Director:
Troy Jesse
email: tjesse@students.uiuc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:07:53 -0700
From: "Layne" <wetpetz@oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Grain analysis
Hey folks,
I was glad to see the grain analysis post Steve Alexander put on the list
as I have some questions about some of the information I was sent on the
grain I just bought. I'm totally new to using grain as I have only done
extract brews so far and I would like to use the grain I have for partial
mash brews.
This grain is from Canada Malting Co., Sask. 2-row pale.
This is what I was sent;
81.5% Extract DFG
4.0% Moisture
FAN 11.5% (What does FAN stand for?)
% Protein Soluble 42 - 44% (What does this mean?)
ASBC 1.5 - 1.7 (EBC 2.8 - 3.3) (What is color in Lovibond?)
Dias. Power 120
I plan on using this grain for partial mashes with oats, wheat, or by
itself for several types of grain. I paid $12 Canadian for 11 pounds
(5Kg). ($8.60US).
If someone has a way to convert EBC or ASBC to Lovibond I would love to
have the formula.
There was no information on Alpha Amylase. What does F/C and S/T refer to
as posted in Steve's analysis information?
TIA
Layne Rossi
wetpetz@oberon.ark.com
Campbell River, BC
I wonder how many folks in the brewing hobby entered "Boat Race" drinking
contests back in College/High School?
***********************************************************
To try and fail is better than
failing because we didn't try!
***********************************************************
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2395, 04/11/97
*************************************
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