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HOMEBREW Digest #2396
HOMEBREW Digest #2396 Mon 14 April 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Inaccurate Scale (Steve Alexander)
Deutschland bound! (pablo)
HUGH BAIRD MALT ANALYSIS (Chris McAtee)
N2: Yaarrgghhh!!! (pbabcock.ford)
Re:Favorite Extracts Anyone? (John Goldthwaite) (Neil L Flatter)
decoction (Steve Alexander)
Re: Black & Tan (Brian Bliss)
Altbier/bittering hops/grapefruit/SS cleaner/isinglass/PU/hop profiles (korz)
hot break/PU & tannoids/Alt & Koelsch/chillhaze/Biscuit/Guinness/autolysis/HLT/NutBrown/F-C/DWC Pils/Ireks (korz)
Re: Malt Analysis (Jeff Renner)
Mead making ("Sandow, Matthew")
Electric Chillers et al ("Sandow, Matthew")
Re: Inaccurate Scale (Tom Gaskell)
Re: Cooler mash tun/Aluminum brew ware (Scott Murman)
Yeast (Mark_Snyder)
PID controllers (Louis Bonham)
Storage of Extracts, Grains, etc. ("Rodroy Fingerhead")
FWIW AHA and The Beer Bill of Rights (Jason Henning)
PU Tannins (Charlie Scandrett)
Polder Digital thermometers (Ian Smith)
St Lous Breweries/Brewpubs (Rob Kienle)
tim's extraction problem (BAYEROSPACE)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:13:17 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Inaccurate Scale
Rick Olivo wrote ...
>George De Pero wrote:
It's George De Piro
>>The other big improvement came when I realized that the shop I was
>>purchasing my grain from was using a bathroom scale to weigh it out, and
...
>on them. These people are perpetrating retail fraud on their unwitting
>customers. They deserve to be nailed, PDQ! This is an important issue. I
It probably is technically fraud, but how about talking to the shop
owner first before making lawyers meat of a local small business.
Frankly some small shop owners are pretty unwitting too, and you may
find that their intentions are far from fraudulent.
Steve Alexander
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:15:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: pablo <pjm@milliways.uark.edu>
Subject: Deutschland bound!
*de-lurk*
HB Digesters,
In less than a month, my wife and I are off to Germany (mostly
Bavaria), a bit of Austria, Denmark, and Sweden, on our belated honeymoon
(got married last Oct.!). We'll be in Munich & environs from about May
10th through the 14th/15th. Then on to Salzburg (and perhaps
Berchtesgaden), Nurnburg, and finally a day or two in Berlin, before going
on to Denmark and my wife's relatives in Sweden.
O.K., now that you all know my intinerary... ;-) I'd like to get
_somewhat_ of an idea of what's good (or better, what to avoid!) while
over there. Of course, in the beerhalls, the draft is a gimme (Spaten,
Paulaner, etc., depending) I know, but what I'm really wanting to know
about are the "usual" beers to be found in restaurants and such; what's
good, and what's not-so-good? If such a thing exists (God forbid), I'd like
to avoid the German equivalent of "budmilloors". I also want to avoid
being served what they _think_ Americans like.
I've considered not posting this; perhaps I should just let it be
an adventure and ask the locals in my halting, tourist German about what
beers are good.... But, I must admit, I've always enjoyed reading the
posts about people's beer drinking experiences abroad (sorry if that's
tacit encouragement to post a reply here, instead of privately!).
So, I'd _very_ much appreciate hearing from any and all about beer
drinking custom, brands to look for, etc. in Germany (esp. the cities
listed above). I invite private responses, and thank you all in advance!
Homebrewing in Arkansas,
-Paul Morstad
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:40:11 -0600
From: mcatee@cadvision.com (Chris McAtee)
Subject: HUGH BAIRD MALT ANALYSIS
I just noticed that this analysis is dated 28.07.93 so take it for what it's
worth. Perhaps British malt has not changed much.
Hugh Baird Pale Ale Malt
------------------------------------
Moisture 3.0% max
Extract FGDB 82.0% min
Fine/Coarse Extract Dif 1.0-2.0%
Colour: (ASBC) 2.0-3.0%
Protein 10.5% max
Soluble/Total Protein 41-44%
Diastatic Activity 45 degrees L min
Hope this helps!
Chris McAtee
Calgary, Alberta
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:43:58 EDT
From: pbabcock.ford@e-mail.com
Subject: N2: Yaarrgghhh!!!
In HBD 2394, Ken Schwartz suggests that the B&T effect might just be
attributable to the "dissolved" nitrogen in the Guinness; Rob Moline
alludes to a similar suggestion one digest prior (I sense that Scot
Abene will throw his hat into the ring, too)...
First, let me say I've seen B&T's made with beers not sporting the
N2CO2 mix. Like BOTTLED Guinness, for instance.
Second, CO2/N2 blends are used to drive beer through systems requiring
higher-than-carbonation-pressure-at-temperature pressure (like a
sparkler head or a "widget" can, for instance) because N2 won't
dissolve in the beer and upset the carbonation - referring to the
"bubbling" rather than the dissolved CO2, here - and won't facilitate
staling. (BTW: many fast-moving beers employ "mixers" that blend air
into the CO2 lines. Not recommended for beers that will spend any
amount of time under the head created, though...)
Can somebody put this to rest? (Please refrain from providing
references from the "esteemed" Michael Lewis.) Will N2 dissolve in
beer? Anyone out there (AJ?) equipped to filter or otherwise render a
beer "dead", keg it, and place it under a pure N2 head to see if it
"nitrogenates"? Will I ever get out of Edison? Huh?
(Isn't it amazing how these threads spawn each other?!?)
Best regards,
Patrick G. Babcock
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:24:56 -0400
From: neil.flatter@juno.com (Neil L Flatter)
Subject: Re:Favorite Extracts Anyone? (John Goldthwaite)
I got to thinking it might be nice if the more experienced folks were up
for a little thread on great/tasty/fave extracts, to help out the newbs
and intermediates in the crowd.
I like using the lightest stuff I can find and then adding specialty
grains for flavor and color. Use leaf or plug hops and liquid yeast and
your extract beers will start
to approach the all grainers.
+++++++
Much the same way I started my move to all-grain. I still brew an
occassional extract. My favorite syles are big, malty beers so I like
the Brewferm series. Admittedly, they are expensive, especially when you
double can, but i like the styles they produce. If you watch the sale
flyers, you can get out of date cans for ~15$.
As far as adding the extra grains, hops, etc. I usually buy a split case
of light/golden and wheat. If I want my typical heavy, malty beer, I use
the L/G and a partial mash of grain. If I making it for someone else to
drink, I use the wheat. I also have used the wheat, along with two cans
of Brewferm, say the double, to make a 5.5 gal batch. [Make sure you use
a starter of Belgian yeast, or it doesn't want to ferment. Such heavy
beer also seems to take months to age.]
- ----------
Neil Flatter Marriage is 90% giving. The trick to a
good marriage
913 7th Avenue knowing when to take your 10%. -Grandpa
Inman
Terre Haute, IN 47807-1109 Home: 812-235-2682
Neil.Flatter@Juno.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:27:17 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: decoction
C&S Peterson says ..
>Is this true? I thought that for a given malt, the lower the modification,
>the higher the enzyme potential.
The free enzyme levels rise dramatically during malting, but
eventually peak and start to decline slightly. More highly modified
malts, before kilning, probably have greater diastatic power. There
are very significant differences due to protein content and barley
variety. The higher kilning temperatures of a pale ale malt will
probably obscure any difference due to modification. In any case
there are apparently no malts available today that aren't very well
modified. Look at the S/T ratio or the Kolbach ratings of malts that
were recently posted. Lager and Pils malts should have a figure
around 35-38, and pale ale malts from 40-44. Instead all malts today
seem to have figures from 42 to 46!! Highly modified even by pale ale
standards.
>Also, I'd like to question whether this is in fact a decoction. As we have
>discussed on this thread before, there are varing components that bring in the
>malt flavor to the final product. Specifically, this procedure may provide
>some Mailliard and carmelization reactions, but will it bring some of the
>*desired* phenols and tannins into the brew that one would get by boiling the
>grain? My own WAG is that these other components provide the subtile
>"complexity" of decoction brews.
Maillard product are certainly part of the decoction flavor. As
Charlie Scandrett points out, phenols enhance strecker degradation of
the intermediate product. The smaller phenolics molecules can
have a very positive effect on flavors as well.
Part of the phenol story that I don't understand to-date is how the
tannins, or tannoids (I assume CharlieS is refering to phenolic
polymers not quite big enough to actually tan leather) are bound to
the husk and pericarp. I'm guessing that the phenolic hydroxyl oxygen
is somehow bound to the husk - perhaps to protein or cellulose
material. This would explain some things about the pH dependence of
the phenols' release. Some of the smaller phenolics appear in the
aleurone layer and seem to be involved with plant growth regulation -
something like hormones.
As for the sources of malty flavors, I'd like to see more info on the
no-sparge wort constituents. Specifically why the later runnings
detract from malt flavor more than does water.
Steve Alexander
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 14:21:56 CDT
From: Brian Bliss <brianb@microware.com>
Subject: Re: Black & Tan
>A further speculation on the Floating Guiness phenomenon is that perhaps the
>dissolved nitrogen in draft Guiness helps suspend the liquid at the top of
>the glass?
quite true. next time, try letting the guilnness decarbonate/denitrogenate
before your pour it. then, it doesn't float! it only makes sense - why else
would a heavier S.G. beer (i.e. guinness) float on a lighter SG beer
(presumably, the "tan" is lighter in SG, or at least the Guinness still floats
if it does).
bb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:11:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: Altbier/bittering hops/grapefruit/SS cleaner/isinglass/PU/hop profiles
I've just ploughed through four HBDs and have a few comments, but
in an effort to keep the signal-to-noise ratio high (as it has been
lately), I'll just parapharse the posts I'm commenting on.
Matt asks about his Altbier recipe. I've discussed this at length
with him offline, but my main comments are that Altbier recipes:
should not really contain a significant amount of crystal malt,
should be based on Munich malt or extract based on Munich malt
(like Marie's Munich Malt extract from St. Pats or German Gold
from William's),
shouldn't have more than a miniscule touch of roasted malts,
should be fermented cool (like around 63F),
I prefer Wyeast #1338 -- certainly don't use an attenuative yeast,
Spalt hops are preferred, but other German and Czech hops will do,
hop to about 50 IBUs, and
should have no flavour or aroma hops (50IBUs of boiling hops *will*
bleed through some flavour and a tiny bit of aroma).
***
Dave asks "isn't the aroma contribution of the bittering hops pretty
much boiled off?"
Yes, pretty much, but there definitely is a difference when you bitter
with different hop varieties. Some components of the hops (I don't know
which) that contribute more than just bitterness do carry through to
the end of the boil and 30 IBUs with Fuggle will be different than
30 IBUs with Saaz.
***
John says he got strong grapefruit taste from the Wyeast #1275.
I have used it twice and didn't get that. The mention of "grapefruit"
always gets me thinking about Cascade, Centennial, and (to a lesser
extent) Columbus hops. Did you use any of these?
***
Art praises Stainless Steel cleaner (water, silicone, and mineral oil).
Perhaps this is obvious, but maybe not... I would not use this on
any surface that would actually *touch* the beer (i.e. inside of
the kegs, inside of the kettle) for fear that the oil would affect
head retention, no? What about getting it on things like the corny
ball-valve o-rings? They're in the beer path too!
***
Dave asks if liquid isinglass spoils when unrefrigerated.
Yes. It will lose its viscosity. I've read where a day or two at 68F
is enough to ruin it. If it is still thick (like pancake syrup)
it's okay, but if it's watery (like, well, water), then it's shot.
***
Michael asks about his Pilsner Urquell recipe.
You can add a little 20L crystal malt (e.g. DWC CaraVienna) which
would add a light toasty, crackery flavour. I would limit it to 1/2#
so as to not make the beer too sweet.
Wyeast #2007 is not the right yeast... that's the BUDWEISER yeast!
It is well-known for it's green-apple character from acetaldehyde.
I would use the newest Wyeast Pilsner yeast (in fact, that's what
I *did* use on my last PU clone try)... sorry, I don't recall
the number, but it begins with a "3."
***
John (in his hop profiles) and Graham mention that Fuggles and
Styrian Goldings are genetically the same hops.
This is true, but they are clearly very different in aroma and
flavour. Styrian Goldings are incredibly resiny and I feel
they are far more similar to true Goldings than they are to Fuggles
which are slightly floral (as are the Styrian Goldings) but
also have a woody character which is not present in the SG or EKG.
On the subject of hop characteristics, I'd like to point out
that the subsitutions recommended by the profiles John is posting,
are *stylistically* correct, but not *aromatic* or *flavour*
equivalents in most cases. For example, for Fuggle hops, Willamette,
East Kent Goldings, and Styrian Goldings are recommented. If you
had a recipe in which Fuggles were specified for dryhopping, it would
presumably be a British Ale and therefore it would be stylistically
correct to dryhop with these three varieties although the resulting
beer would have a considerably different aroma. The Willamette
(in my opinion) would be closest, but the other two would be *very*
different.
In other cases, the similarities are much closer (e.g. Cascade and
Centennial).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:38:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: hot break/PU & tannoids/Alt & Koelsch/chillhaze/Biscuit/Guinness/autolysis/HLT/NutBrown/F-C/DWC Pils/Ireks
Sorry about the length...
Charlie writes:
>Interesting, after three hours the hot break becomes so denatured it
>begins to redissolve!
I recall that in George Fix's PoBS, he says that after only two hours
the hot break begins to redissolve. Furthermore, DeClerk (in Textbook
of Brewing) says that given optimal conditions, 1 hour is the ideal
boil time (although we rarely achieve these and a longer boil is
usually required).
The question remains, is the redisolving of hot break bad or good?
My gut feeling says bad, but there are many beers (mostly Belgian
that I know of... Liefmans, Cantillon, several Trappists...) that are
(or were, as in the case of Liefmans) made with very long boils.
***
Charlie also wrote that PU has the highest tannoid content, yet
he suggested that a pseudo-decoction followed by a good recirculation
would help reduce the tannoids. PU is triple-decocted, so what
gives? Is it the soft water and therefore higher than optimal
mash pH at Pilsensky Prazdroj?
***
Regarding Duesseldorfer Altbiers in the US, most are not available.
The best, Zum Uerige, is a brewpub. They do bottle, but the bottling
is very primitive (they close the bale-lock bottles BY HAND) and
the recommended shelf-life is only 30 days (the lables have bottled-on
dates and best-by dates only 30 days apart).
I've heard that Im Fuchschen is available in the US, and it is a fine
example of the style. The original Widmer Alt was a Zum Uerige clone,
but was "softened" in subsequent years. They now also make an Ur-Alt
(original Alt) which is supposed to be their original recipe. Finally,
I believe that Schlosser Alt may be imported into the US and is in the
same league (in my opinion) as Zum Uerige and Im Fuchschen, so if you
can find it, grab it.
I disagree that Grolsh Amber is a good or even fair example of the
style. Not nearly malty or bitter enough. Sort of "Miller Lite"
meets "Zum Uerige." I have had Hannen Alt in Koeln and while it is
made in Duesseldorf, either it was an old bottle or the bittering
is just weak -- I though it was underhopped. Schmaltz Alt rhymes,
but isn't even close. Pinkus Muenster Alt, is made in Muenster
and is a sour, pale, wheat beer... I like it, but it's no more a
Duesseldorfer Alt than Kindl Weiss is. I have not tried Harpoon
Alt... we got one or two Harpoon Ales here a few years ago, but
the Alt was not one of them. Stroh's makes an Alt under the
Augsburger label... see Grolsh Amber, above.
Someone asked about Koelsches too. Again, the best are brewpubs
and don't bottle. I had a pretty decent one in a tin (Dom was
the brand), but I've never seen it here. If you have tasted
Utenos Beer from Lithuania, I think it has some Koelsch-like
character... athough it is a little too dark for the style.
Hart Brewing in Kalima, WA makes a Kaelsch (cute name and respectful
of the appelation) which I thought was a reasonable example
of the style, although most of the best Koelsches in Koeln
had a little DMS which I thought odd for an ale, but it lended
a very grainy nose that fit the style well (like sticking
your face in a tun of spent grain).
***
Adam says he has chill haze despite a protein rest.
Have you checked your pH? Is it below 5.5? You could be extracting
excessive polyphenols as well as working your protein rest at a
non-optimal pH.
***
Charles suggests making Munich and Biscuit malts with a pressurecooker.
Munich, yes... Aromatic, yes... Weyermann Melanoidin malt, yes...
Biscuit, no... Biscuit is like Briess Victory malt: a toasted pale malt.
It is not high-kilned like the aforementioned malts.
***
Raymond says Guinness Extra Stout has an OG of 1.040. I believe you
are thinking of the Draught version which is, indeed, 1.038 or 1.040 OG.
The bottled version is closer to 1.050 OG. I think you need the
Draught (or at least the canned) version to float on top of another
beer.
***
Craig asks about McNeill's statement (in Brewing Techniques) that
adding the second 5bbl wort to the first 5bbl between 7 and 24 hours
reduces the rist of autolysis because "the pitching rate was right
for the first batch and grows to the right level for the second batch."
Craig then asks "When does autolysis set in?"
Autolysis only occurs when the yeast are starved. There is no autolysis
when the yeast has plenty of sugars to munch on. I feel that risk of
autolysis is way overblown and if you pitch healthy yeast in reasonable
amounts, the risk of autolysis for most strains is virtually nil. If the
yeast has to grow a lot, and there are not enough sterols or oxygen
available, the offspring have to inherit their sterols from their parents
and their membranes get weak. Based upon my experience and all the
*professional* texts I've read, I think that overpitching is NOT a
contributor to autolysis risk. *Underpitching* is.
***
Randy asks for comments on his ideas for hot liquor supply.
One thing that I noticed is that #3 (demand-type water heater) would
prevent you from acidifying or adding brewing salts to your sparge
water. I had considered this too, but dismissed it for these two
reasons.
***
Charley asks what makes "Nut Brown" a "Nut Brown."
The answer is: the colour. My understanding is that "Nut Brown"
is a colour (of a breed of horses, I believe?).
***
John mentions DWC Pils and how he uses it without a protein rest and
gets no more trub than with English Pale Ale malt.
Hmmm... do you mash at 150F? I tend to mash either around 155F or 158F.
Presumably there could be some proteolytic activity (not much) still
at 150F. Note in rjlee's post from HBD #2391, that DWC Pils F/C
ratio is 2.0. This is higher than most. The higher the F/C ratio is, the
lower the modification of the malt. The F/C ratio is the difference
between a fine crush (lab wort) and a course crush (real brewer's wort).
If the difference is small, that means that the protein matrix in the
endosperm has been well dissassembled and the starch is more readily
available even if the crush is not fine. This is just further indication
that the DWC Pils is on the low end of the modification range for modern
malts. I have only used the Pils mixed with other malts, but like I
said before, 15 minute protein rest at 135F with the DWC Pale Ale really
reduced the volume of the hot and cold break by at least 50%.
***
John asks about Ireks Vienna malt and is it one of those "bad" malts
that George and Laurie Fix refer to...
No. Ireks is made by Weyermann and is a very good malt. I have not
used their Vienna, but I've used the Munich under both the Ireks
and Weyermann labels and it's outstanding!
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:59:00 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Malt Analysis
Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com> wrote:
>
> Breiss Breiss Durst
> 2row 6row pilsen
> pale pale
> 6/96 6/96 1/97
> ---------------------------
>moisture 4.0 4.0 3.0
>Extract FG dry >80.5 >78 80
>F/C <1.8 <1.8 1.5
>color 1.8L 1.8L 2.9EBC
>Alpha Amylase 46 44 ---
>Sol. Protein ~5.4 ~5.7 4.7
>Tot. Protein 12-12.5 12.5-13.5 10.9
>S/T 44 44 42.9
>Diastatic Power 140 150 ---
>
>can anyone add a recent english pale-ale malt analysis ?
No, but here is what I do have to give an idea of variability:
Breiss Breiss Durst Durst Durst Durst
2row 6row pilsen Vienna Munich Wheat
pale pale
3/26/96 1/10/97 3/6/97 2/11/97 2/6/97
---------------------------------------------------
moisture 4.0 4.0 3.0 3.9 4.5 5.0
Extract FG dry 81.0 79.0 82.4 81.7 82.2 85.9
F/C <1.8 <1.8 1.7 1.4 1.5 1.0
color 1.8L 1.8L 2.9EBC 6.0EBC 20.6EBC 3.4EBC
Alpha Amylase 50 40 ---
Sol. Protein ~5.3 ~5.4
Sol. Nitrogen 0.689 0.737 0.751 0.769
Tot. Protein 11.7 12.0 10.3 10.5 10.6 11.4
S/T 44 44 42.9 43.8 44.1 42.2
Diastatic Power 140 150
Diastatic Power (What units?) 275 --- 173 ---
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:51:00 +1000
From: "Sandow, Matthew" <MSandow@nibucorp.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Mead making
Phil,
reference your message about making mead:
> - -------------------
> I've just found a cheap source of honey. Are there any good on-line
sources
> of how-to mead makeing out there? Wheres a good place to start?
Mead, Cyser,
> meloguin (sp) methoguin Crystal Meth? (NOT) Braggot? I saw some
cider in the
> store last night it had Potassium Sorbate and Maltic acid listed as
> additives, how bad is that. I know your supposed to get
no-preservatives for
> cider, but I don't feel like waiting till october for apple season
again.
> Denis, What part of the country are you in? Ill take those mead
yeasties off
> your hands!
I have been making mead for a while and I think that the best way to
start is by making a basic dry mead. It is the classic style and IMHO
the easiest one to make, which makes it especially suited for a new
brewer.
A couple of personal observations:
You mention that you have a cheap source of honey (lucky sod) - mead is
directly influence by the type of honey you use. I suggest that you use
a very light (ie pale) honey such as lucerne. Many of the darker honeys
have strong flavours which whilst nice on toast can be a bit much when
fermented.
I use a small glass carboy for my mead (approx 5 litres capacity is
fine) which means that it is cheaper to make and ferment. Mead takes
several weeks to months (depending on type) to ferment so the last thing
you need is a 220 litre drum sitting in the laundry for five weeks.
There are a number of commercial mead yeasts available which are suited
to the type of sugar and concentration of alchohol in mead. A lot of
commercial wine and beer style yeasts stop fermenting early and some
can't ferment honey at all. I suggest you contact your local brew shop
and ask them for a locally available yeast. I have on occassion used
yeast from a commercially available mead which I revived in a similar
manner as in beer making, but it is a fair hassle and most meads are
decantered and filtered similar to wine so losing the yeast. One way of
finding the yeast is in a naturally sparkling mead.
Regarding the additives l personally don't like using anything with
preservatives added. Some people add tannic or citric acid to mead to
make it less sweet but I prefer the natural product.
I don't have any of my books here at work but if you are interested I
can post a couple of simple brews which I have used with success.
Mead is easy to make and if you have successfully brewed beer you should
have no problems with mead. Same rules as beer - be clean, don't hurry,
and enjoy responsibly
good luck and wassail
Matthew
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:01:00 +1000
From: "Sandow, Matthew" <MSandow@nibucorp.telstra.com.au>
Subject: Electric Chillers et al
I have been reading this thread with interest because summer has just
finished here in OZ <sigh>
To be honest I think the solutions so far mentioned are fairly hightech
and not really necessary for the average home brewer.
The way I do it is stand my fermenter in the laundry tub, fill it (the
tub) with water and drape a wet towel over the fermenter. The
evaporative effect lowers the temperature considerably and will
comfortably keep the mix within brewing tolerances. In addition the
water surrounding the fermenter in the tub, acts like a heat sink.
This is IMO a simple, low tech to the problem
regards
Matthew
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:53:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: gaskell@borg.com (Tom Gaskell)
Subject: Re: Inaccurate Scale
Rick Olivo wrote:
> George De Pero (-5 sp) wrote:
> > the shop I was purchasing my grain from was using a bathroom
> > scale to weigh it out, and I was getting shorted every time!
> George, you should report these jokers to your state's Department
> of Commerce's division of weights and measures.
<snip>
> These people are perpetrating retail fraud on their unwitting
> customers. They deserve to be nailed, PDQ!
<snip>
> It sure goes to show that the buyer should beware-- look to make
> sure your grain seller is using a certified scale!
Whoa! Hold on there, Rick. You seem to be willing to pay a bunch
of money to ensure that you don't get screwed out of a few dimes.
I feel that George's response is a more sane approach, put the SOB
out of business by avoiding his unethical business practices and not
allowing yourself to be screwed anymore. Also remember, we are only
talking about bulk malt here. Maybe Al Korzonas will jump in and tell
us how little profit there is in bulk (not 25 kilo bags or one pound
prepackaged), retail barley malt sales. HB retailers I have spoken to
would much rather just sell extract (much more profitable with no mess
or special equipment, ie. bins, mills, scales, bags, etc.).
The shops I go to are small, slightly profitable?, local businesses
that I visit because they have acceptable prices, are conveniently
located and I like the beer chat that goes on while I shop. When I
am getting brew stuff, I am Tool Time's Tim Taylor and they are the
local Binford franchise. ;^) Both of the brew shops I frequent use
uncertified (one bathroom, the other electronic postal) scales, and I
have no gripe with either one. As a matter of fact, they tend to err
in my favor because they are in the HB retail business for the long
haul, not a fast buck.
Because they do not have the added cost of obtaining, and maintaining,
certified scales (enough additional cost to put my local moonlighting
shop out of business), the amount of my money that would go for the
shop's higher overhead stays in my pocket, right where I like it.
Scale certification will do nothing for the brewer but increase local,
retail prices by increasing the hidden taxes on malt, close shops with
small profit margins, reduce competition, and thereby, drive prices
ever higher.
Rick, I agree with your suggestion, "buyer beware," but please don't
insist that these guys pay hundreds of dollars more in annual hidden
business taxes because I run the risk of losing a dollar's worth of
grain. A little bit of skepticism on George's part may have saved
him some math errors and a few bucks, but his skills and ability as
an outstanding brewer remain unscathed.
If you have a concern, check the weight with an accurate scale. Drop
by the butcher shop with a couple of bottles of your best and ask them
to throw your your grain on their certified scale. While you are there,
try to estimate how many sales per day the butcher uses his scale.
Then consider how much additional cost the scale adds to each purchase
of goods sold by weight. I think that you will agree that the cost
added to a single sale is negligible due to the volume of business.
Now consider the number of daily bulk grain purchases made in your
local homebrew shop versus the number of sales made by the butcher.
Now extrapolate what would happen to the price of bulk malt if they
had to pay for certified scales. I think that you will agree that
grain would become much more expensive. It turns out that you would
pay dearly for the security against underweight purchases you had gained.
If the HB retailer is a money-grubbing asshole, boycott the shop and
tell every brewer you know to do the same. If you feel like it, tell
the shop owner that you are sick of being screwed and that you will
take immense joy in seeing the shop close the doors for the last time.
George's retailer is probably not driving around town in the profit he
stole from George, and others; he might have pocketed a hundred bucks
total. But I am confident that he will be losing a lot of income in
the not-too-distant future. What do you think, George? Folks, this
is a simple lesson in ethics.
Thanks for your concern, Rick, but I currently have more regulation,
certification, and hidden taxation, than I ever wanted.
I apologize for my long winded response.
Cheers,
Tom Gaskell
Clayville, NY
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:40:01 -0700
From: Scott Murman <smurman@best.com>
Subject: Re: Cooler mash tun/Aluminum brew ware
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 18:50:58 -0400 Joseph Bonner wrote:
>
> In shopping around, the Gott coolers seem to be very elusive, at least in
> NYC.
Gott was bought out by Rubbermaid. Fear not though, Rubbermaid still
makes the 5 and 10 gallon cylindrical coolers. They do have a retail
store that will mail order. The number is 330-264-7645. 10-3 EST.
> In HBD #2391, Russ Brodeur <r-brodeur@ds.mc.ti.com> noted some apprehension
> about using an aluminum pressure cooker for decoctions. Russ, I think the
> rumours that link Al with Alzheimer's have been greatly exaggerated
> (apologies to Mark Twain).
Here we go again. The connection between aluminum and Alzheimer's has
to do with aluminum in the drinking water. If it's in your water
supply you're already screwed though, so don't worry about it.
There's been no concrete findings either way though, so don't worry
about it. It has nothing to do with aluminum cooking utensils, so
don't worry about it. If you want a health risk to worry about try
the second hand smoke in your local pub.
SM
http://www.best.com/~smurman/zymurgy (among other things)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 06:54:18 -0500
From: Mark_Snyder@WMX.COM
Subject: Yeast
Mark Snyder
04-11-97 06:54 AM
I've read a number of threads on the HBD regarding Yeast: liquid vs. dry,
reusing, washing, etc. and have yet to see anyone reference my solution to
the situation. Keep in mind, I'm still a newbie, just finished my fourth
extract batch (with steeped specialty grains and maple sap instead of
water) and have a lot yet to learn and do.
But, I've found my best resource when homebrewing is my local microbrewerys
assistant brewmaster. We've spent numerous hours in their fermentation
room (with beers in hand) as I pick his brain on techniques for brewing,
types of hops used in my favorite microbrew, whether I need to worry that
my 1 hour steeping of Munich malt (thanks for the tip, Ken Schwartz) will
result in excess starch that could result in off-flavored beer with time
(in his opinion, it won't), how he prepares his cask conditioned ales for
tapping, and lastly, what type of yeast they use. Turns out to be a
proprietary Wyeast strain used only by them and another microbrewery, and
they reuse their yeast from light to darker types of beer (not ale to lager
or vice-versa). I've even gotten tips from the brewmaster when he's been
around. But nothing to compare with the information from the assistant
brewmaster, he loves to talk. In his words "we're all homebrewers, some
just do it on a larger scale".
Nonetheless, he is always more than happy to take my PINT jar and fill it
with yeast from his fermentation tanks(once again, with beers in hand).
Always bitches about my sterilizing with bleach and resterilizes with
iodophor before filling my jar. I'll tell you what though, you pitch a
pint of yeast (settles down to about an inch or so in the jar after about 1
hour) into a 5 gallon batch of either extract or all-grain (I'm sure it
will work for you all-grainers, too), and you'll see something really rock
and roll after less than 2 hours. I do add about 1/4 cup of wort to get
things started before I pitch, though. And, I guess I could reuse the cake
in the bottom of my carboy, but why bother? More is available when I want
it, and it's a good excuse to grab a beer and see some friends. They'll
even store it in their cooler until I've had my last beer and am ready to
go!
Try it folks, I'm sure you'll like it. This stuff is fresh, and no more
smack packs with 2 day waits. And these guys love to talk about their jobs
.... just like we all love to talk about our hobbies!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:26:29 -0500
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham@phoenix.net>
Subject: PID controllers
Keith Royster sings the praises of PID controllers for his RIMS.
Keith is 100% correct; I've been using one on my RIMS for about
three years, and these controllers allow you to really
control your mash temp to well within 1F without overshoots.
The downside is the cost. The cheapest PID controllers I have
seen retail in the $150-200 range, and that doesn't include
a relay that can handle the heavy current load of a RIMS heater.
If you're looking for a PID controller, I suggest hitting the
electronic surplus shops, electronic flea markets, and ham radio
swap meets in your area. I was able to score two brand new Fuji PID
controllers (one is 1/4 DIN and the other is 1/8 DIN) for the
princely sum of $20. This was quite a deal, but I've seen PID
controllers available in the surplus channels for an average
price of around $100.
And whatever you do, *don't* hook up a PID controller to your
brewing fridge -- you'll fry your fridge's compressor in very
short order.
Louis K. Bonham
lkbonham@phoenix.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:20:22 PDT
From: "Rodroy Fingerhead" <sjbh64@hotmail.com>
Subject: Storage of Extracts, Grains, etc.
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question re: brown vs green
bottles. The consensus seemed to be that green is fine if I avoid
exposure to light, but brown is best for competition.
I've searched the HRB archives and can't find any information about
storing materials. It seems that most recipes call for 5 gallon
batches. That's a lot of beer and would last me a long time. So, can
I make half-batches? And if so, will this affect boiling, fermenting,
or anything else? Also, how does one store opened, unused materials?
Or, can they be stored at all once they are opened.
One last question: I see dozens of suppliers on the web with vastly
different prices for what seem like the same items. Can anyone
suggest a reliable, affordable supplier?
Thanks
Rodroy Fingerhead
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 03:04:31 -0700
From: Jason Henning <huskers@cco.net>
Subject: FWIW AHA and The Beer Bill of Rights
Hello Friends-
>From the FWIW department:
A few HBD's back I bashed the AHA for not sending my winter edition
of Zymurgy, even after e-mailing their subscrition department. I'm
happy to report I got it yesterday. It has a cover with brillant colors
of Berlin....just like the one I bought three months ago.
I found a mildly amusing web page, the 'Beer Bill of Rights'
http://www.apricot.com/~jimcat/writings/misc/beerbill.html
Cheers,
Jason Henning (huskers@cco.net)
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Olympia, Washington - "It's the water"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:29:54 +1000 (EST)
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino@buggs.cynergy.com.au>
Subject: PU Tannins
Al K wrote
>Charlie also wrote that PU has the highest tannoid content, yet
>he suggested that a pseudo-decoction followed by a good recirculation
>would help reduce the tannoids. PU is triple-decocted, so what
>gives? Is it the soft water and therefore higher than optimal
>mash pH at Pilsensky Prazdroj?
All this stuff has come from *slowly* writing a Lauter FAQ which I haven't
published yet, so it may seem esoteric to some.
Triple decoction would break down the pericarp and husks in modern malts.
This is why fully decocted lauters are shallower, the bed is gooey and less
permeable. Then a high pH soft water (remember distilled water is a good
solvent) sparge without much recirculation would give a high polyphenol
content. Add a bit of oxidation and you have Tannin City! (Astringent
polyphenols are oxidised polyphenols or "tannoids") I don't know what PU do,
but their beer is good for tanning kangaroo hides by the time it gets to
Australia.
The point of psuedo decoction (long 75-78C mashout)is to create the kind of
*hot break in the mash* that decoction does without the polyphenol
extraction risk. With adequate recycling this hot break complexes with the
polyphenols in the wort to keep them in the grain bed.
Some German texts advise against mashout as it releases more starch while
denaturing enzymes to convert that starch. Withholding some grain-free,
enzyme-rich fluid before mashout and adding it back later overcomes this
objection. The increased extract and flavour yield of fuller gelatinisation
and the higher permeability of a hotter lauter and the beneficial filtering
effect of hot break in the grain bed can then be realised.
With creative kettle/pressure cooker teechniques with the first runnings, I
believe an authentic lager flavour can be had.
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
I agree with Jethro, "why decoct?"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:08:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Subject: Polder Digital thermometers
The problem with the "stuck" readings on other problems with these units
is immersion in hot fluids. I fixed mine by sliding a 12" long piece
teflon heat shrink tubing over the probe, around the curved part and over
the braid. The probe sticks out of the teflon at the bottom by 2 or 3
inches. Hit the heat shrink with a heat gun and voila ! no more hot water
going down the probe via the braided wires !
If the probe does get "stuck" - you can fix it by putting it in the oven
(but not the connector !) at say 300 F for 1 hour. This will dry it out.
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:45:02 -0500
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle@interaccess.com>
Subject: St Lous Breweries/Brewpubs
I'm making a trip to St. Louis for a wedding in June and have about 6
hours to kill between the ceremony and reception. Any suggestions for a
good brewpub or a brew tour to attend? (The obvious answer is to check
out A/B, but are there any others of interest?)
- --
Cheers4beers,
Rob Kienle
Chicago, IL
rkienle@interaccess.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:07 -0600
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (BAYEROSPACE)
Subject: tim's extraction problem
collective homebrew conscience:
tim wrote:
>I need some help <snip> I'm getting miserable
>extraction efficiency. I'm only getting about 21pts/lb/gal.
> A little background on my mashing procedure:
>I do a single step infusion at about 153-4. Half the mash goes in the four
>gallon kettle, the other half goes into a 4 gallon coleman cooler. I rest
>for about 90 minutes (until negative iodine test).
stop. what is your water like? how much calcium, how much carbonate and
bicarbonate, and what is the ph of the mash?
also, what is the ratio of water to grain? how many quarts of water per
pound of grain? do you gradually stir the grain into the water (at, presumably
a strike temperature of around 165 f or so), or do you mash in at a lower
temp and then give a boost to 153 f?
what specific malt are you using? (maltster and name of the type of malt.)
>I don't own a mill, so I use the one at the brew shop. I'm pretty
>sure that I'm not getting a great crush, but it's pretty good.
as long as you don't have a lot more than, say, 5 or 10 per cent by weight, of
malt kernels that pass through *completely unscathed*, it's probably not
the crush. grab a handful of the crushed malt and inspect it. is there a
significant fraction of kernels that are completely untouched by the mill?
do you see very fine (almost flour-like *heresy*heresy*heresy*) white granules
of starchy kernel interiors in your grist? you should. you will probably also
see some coarser grits that have been broken out of the husks.
>And I also don't heat the mash to a mashout temperature.
>Other than those two factors, is there anything else I may have
>missed?
mashing out would help a little, but it wouldn't take you from 21 points/lb/gal
to 30. assuming your problem is with sugar production, and not lautering,
check the water, crush, mash ph, and water:grain ratio, and tell us these
things. chances are somebody will spot something that's a little off. and
make sure your thermometer is reasonably accurate.
******************
eric fouch wrote:
> reply to me via e-mail with the appropriate responses (which hopefully
>won't include "Piss up a rope").
then he signs the bottom,
>Bent Dick YactoBrewery
hmmmm. it appears the rope-pissing comment was a serious request.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2396, 04/14/97
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