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HOMEBREW Digest #2368
HOMEBREW Digest #2368 Fri 07 March 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
re: Dropping yeilds retiring yeast? ("C.D. Pritchard")
Newbie mistakes (John C Peterson)
My first homemalting,pigeon grains. (Mutsuo Hoshido)
6th. ann New York City spring Regional Competition (Ken)
How much Lactose to raise SG .001? (Charles Burns)
Re: New to brewing (DGofus)
Patron Saint of Brewing ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
All Sazz Update ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
dark malt infected? (Gavin Scarman)
Acid Levels in home grown hops (Marc Lueck)
Temp Conrtoller (Douglas Kerfoot)
Re: A Seat of the Pants Brewing Tip (John Sullivan)
Lactic acid souring, bacteria (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
Spirit of Free Beer homebrew competition (Mark Stevens)
growing hops ("STARCAT")
RE: stout grist ("Bridges, Scott")
Brewing terminology (AJN)
Golden Gate Fermenter? / Temperature Control (Randy Reed) ("Trollhattan Motors, Inc.")
Filemaker Pro Brew SW/ WY 1968 success (Brian Pickerill)
Dropping wort (Graham Stone)
Hot wort through vinyl tubing (John Wilkinson)
Lacto-What? (Loe Larry)
Hops (vee12)
Last word on Starters (Jenny & Bob Pakulski)
Re: Sieving hot wort (Brian Pickerill)
aeration (John Wilkinson)
NonStarter, honey and alcohol flavor (Nathan Moore)
Brew Kettles (Mike_Bell)
Brew Software ("Peter Touborg")
Sour beer/ Siphoning (erikvan)
Homebrew Digest Near Meltdown! ("Karl F. Lutzen")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 18:36:01 +0700
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp@mail.chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: Dropping yeilds retiring yeast?
Kim Booth asked:
>Does dropping leave behind working yeast populations or is all the
>bottom yeasts "retired"?
The yeast are far retiring in my limited experience! I recently dropped
(w/o aeration since adding O2 sounds like a bad idea to me) a batch of ale
that was about a day into high krausen. After dropping, the ferment slowed
a bit but a new head of foam was established in < 1 day. After racking to
the secondary (a tertiary when the brew's been dropped?), fresh wort was
racked onto the yeast cake (WYeast 1056). The yeast cake was about 1/8 to
1/4" thick and was very clean since the trub and dirty yeast got left behind
in the primary via the dropping. Fermentation was evident in < 3 hours and
was really rocking the next morning.
FWIW, the dropped ale seemed to be less harsh than previous similiar brews
when consumed right after force carbonating. I suspect this might have been
due to racking from beneath the dirty primary foam (thereby leaving alot of
it behind) as much as it was from racking off of the trub. I plan on
dropping and repitching on the secondary yeast cake whenever possible.
c.d. pritchard cdp@chattanooga.net
http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 19:09:12 EST
From: petersonj1@juno.com (John C Peterson)
Subject: Newbie mistakes
I am trying to get a list together of beginner mistakes to publish on the
web to help the fellow newbies in this sport.
In learning the initial steps, I ruined a couple of batches of what could
have been very good beer. I followed the directions and did everything I
was supposed to do. The problem, I did things that I found out I wasn't
to do (ie., aerate the wort before dropping below 90, ensuring that
fermentation was "complete" before bottling, etc.).
If you have know of something to pass along that you did that the books
or advice didn't tell you not to do, send me a description.
Also, is there a good "beginner" destructions out there to do
partial/full mash brewing? The extract one at rollanet was excellent,
now I want to step up a level and as good as Charlie's book is, his
destructions are not complete and sometimes misleading.
John C. Peterson
Aurora, Colorado
petersonj1@juno.com
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6841
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 97 09:11:31 JST
From: hoshido@gman.rme.sony.co.jp (Mutsuo Hoshido)
Subject: My first homemalting,pigeon grains.
In Japan, barley producers are strictly controlled by the tax office since
they have a direct relationship with the beer breweries. So purchasing
barley for homebrewing is almost impossible.
I had been trying to get barley for three years, but all efforts were in vain.
Once I got a sample of Malted Barley for Barley tea and found that it was
usable for homebrewing. I tried to purchase it directly from the
manufacturer for homebrew club members as a hobby activity.
Unfortunately a homebrew supply importer interfered with this business
and offered us the amazing price of $5.00 kilogram (2.2 pounds) (for
simpler calculations, assume $1.00 = 100.00 yen). This price is almost
the same price as the highest grade polished rice. If we personally
imported malted grains from the US, at this expense, we would still have
change left over, after paying additional shipping costs of almost two
times the original grain price. We had to give up the barley tea root
because of the price. We are doing our homebrew as one of our hobbies.
One morning last Feb., the road was very crowded and I had to stop my
car for a while in front of a Pet food shop. I was very much surprised
to find "Barley" indicated on a 44 lb feed bags piled up in the shop.
Throughout the day, I was wondering if the "Barley" was real barley and
if it could be germinated. I was almost unconscious. After work, I rushed
to the shop to buy the "Barley". The price was
surprisingly low, only $20.00 for a 44 lb bag. They sell it as food for
racing pigeons.
I put about 20 grains on a water moistened gauze in a small dish.
In two days, I was excited to find that a small rootlet appeared from each
grain.
Following is my first malting procedure:
1. Wash and soak 3 kg (6.6 lb) pigeon barley in a stainless steel pot for
24 hours. I changed the waters 3 times during soaking.
2. After draining the water for about 20 min., I wrapped the wet barley
with clean and water moistened tatami sheets (tatami is Japanese grass
woven mat. I used only the outside covering of the mat) and placed them
on a polyethylene sheet in our dining room.
3. Each morning and evening, I sprayed water on the barley and stirred
them.
4. In four days, the sprouts and rootlets looked like a picture in a
homebrew book. I decided to stop germination.
5. I put the barley on thick newspapers and placed them into a Japanese
Kotatsu (electric foot warmer) for 10 hours. Maybe 40 deg C
(104 deg F). I did not measure.
6. After ten hours, the barley still looked somewhat wet.
7. I put them in a thick cloth bag and set them in our electric clothes
dryer for two hours.
8. They were almost dried and fortunately the sprouts and rootlets were
almost completely removed during drying rotation.
9. After sieving them, I milled them with great difficulty using a Phil-mill.
Because the malted barleys felt slightly moist, it took two hours.
I found many uncrushed grains. Almost exhausted, I should have used
an electric mixer.
10. Through my conventional mashing, sparging, boiling, hopping and
brewing procedures, I got about 10 liters (2.6 gal) my own tasty beer.
At the end of last February, I tried my second malting using the same
pigeon barley with much more care. This time I used my electric mixer to
crush the malted grains so that I could save my energy and time.
Disappointedly the yield seemed to be almost the same as that for the first
batch, although I paid special attention to this second batch. The second
batch is under fermentation in my plastic Tsukemono container (we use this
plastic container to make Japanese pickles). This food grade plastic
Tsukemono container is very useful for beer brewing, since it is very cheap,
only $6.00 for 20 liter (5.3 gal) size and much easier to clean and handle.
I don't use any air lock. The lid is easily removed to see inside and as it
also
semi-transparent, I can check the inside for movement.
Kanpai! Enjoy your own homebrew!
Mutsuo Hoshido
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 21:36:18 -0500
From: Ken <kbjohns@oscar.peakaccess.net>
Subject: 6th. ann New York City spring Regional Competition
Just a reminder.
Several weeks ago we sent you information on the 6th ann. NY city Spring
Regional Homebrew Competition. Entries are due by 3/21/97
complete information, including entry forms cam be found on the clubs home
page URL hjttp://www.wp.com/hosi/ under 6th ann NYCHBC, or you can request
information in ASCI, MSWord or Amipro format.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 97 19:20 PST
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: How much Lactose to raise SG .001?
Ok, finally got my strawberry blonde out from under the berries. FG=1.005.
Tastes like crap, well not crap ( i don't really *know* what crap tastes
like), but really thin, watery. I assume this is due to the temp. control
problems I had. This was my first "practice" decoction and it did not go
well. I don't think I ever got the temp above 145F for any significant
period of time.
Anyway, in an effort to save this beer, I want to raise the FG artificially
(add some body) by adding lactose but I don't know how much to add. Is there
a simple formula for adding X grams to 1 gallon (US) to raise SG by .001.
I'd like to do this in stages to see how much I really need, don't want to
over do it on the first try.
Please send email in addition to posting a response. It takes about 2-3 days
for posts to show up these days.
Charley
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:48:50 -0500 (EST)
From: DGofus@aol.com
Subject: Re: New to brewing
I am a new home brewer since Christmas 96. I have made 4 Batches of
beer...alll with good to great results. Can anybody give me some sound advice
as to the ways of homebrewing? This format seems to be a little complex for
the beginner. Sounds like a lot of all grain brewers. Maybe one day I will
venture that way. What are the advantages? I am eager to try various recipes,
and any that are proven yummy would be great. I enjoy Brown ales (
Newcastle), Doublebocks ( have not lagered any beer yet , no spare
refridgerator-any way to get around-ale yeast?), Imperial stouts, and willing
to try any favorites of other beer enthusiasts. I am a fan of Stoudt's
brewery in PA(local 45 minutes away). They have a few exceptional brews...
Scarlet Lady Ale (ESB), Honey Double Maibock, And a great abbey triple type
(belgian?). there seems to be so much invovled that one could get carried
away,... but all of you out there have been in my shoes at one point, please
pass on the experience. Thanks in advance. Private E-mail okay.
Bob Fesmire
Dgofus@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:49:00 -0600
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD@hood-emh3.army.mil>
Subject: Patron Saint of Brewing
Fellow HBDers,
In my last post, I joked about praying to the patron saint of quality
beverages. That got me wondering, is there a patron saint for brewers?
I was originally thinking in the Judao - Christian frame of reference,
but I imagine there may be many from different religions (at least ones
where alcoholic consumption is permitted)? Although I probably won't
pray for divine intervention for my batch of barley wine, it would be a
interesting tid bit to know.
Daniel Goodale (yes, that is my real name)
Biohazard Brewing Company (Killeen, Texas - Master Brewer currently
lagering at NV292009 (NTC))
Give the gift that keeps on giving - Biohazard Beer!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 03:42:00 -0600
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD@hood-emh3.army.mil>
Subject: All Sazz Update
Fellow HBDers,
A while back, I queried the collective on an all Sazz IPA. Getting no
firm recipes, I formulated my own and drove on. When I think Sazz, I
think Pilsner, so I started with a very basic Pilsner recipe. I know it
is supposed to be an ale, please don't sick the style police on me. It
consisted of 10 # of pilsner malt and Wyeast Pilsner yeast (forgive the
vagueness, I don't have my log with me). Because of an odd Sazz
shortage at the local homebred shop, I used only 5 oz. of pellets added
at various times during the boil. Fermented at 50 degrees, dry hopped
with 2 oz. Sazz, and lagered at 27 degrees for 2 months and counting.
Non-carbonated - fresh from the carboy impressions: After the first
sip, I felt like I was hit in the face with a pillow case full of Sazz
hops. Certainly not bitter enough for an IPA (or an IPL in this case).
Doubling the boiling hops would not be out of the question, but for the
price and loss of wort! Great, refreshing Sazz nose that fades to just
a perception of maltiness. It instantly reminded me of a micro in
Autsin Texas, The Copper Tank's, White Tail Pale Ale except not as
fruity. I guess harder water would accentuate the bitterness (I used
ROed, C filtered, UVed, Na++ free H2O from one of those machines
outside a payless food mart). Continue to lager. I like it, but then
again I like all my brews no matter how bad they are. Next batch will
be truer to style, i.e. ale. I'm currently saving up for the hop bill
8-)
Daniel Goodale (yes, that is my real name)
Biohazard Brewing Company (Killeen, Texas - Master Brewer currently
laboring at NV292009 (NTC))
Give the gift that keeps on giving - Biohazard Beer!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 20:35:02 +1500
From: Gavin Scarman <scarman@satech.net.au>
Subject: dark malt infected?
I recently had a batch of beer get infected with something that caused it
to go very fizzy (ie. wouldn't hold it's head but very carbonated) and lose
all sweetness after about 3 weeks in the bottle. I thought I must have
picked it up during bottling.
However I had some of the dark malt I used in that batch left over and used
a small amount of it on my last batch (the batch in between was brilliant).
Everything else was 'new'. The malt had been stored in the fridge for about
1 month. It originally came in a plastic tub which bothered me a bit but
since it gets boiled for 2 hrs I thought it'd be ok. Anyway the currnt
batch seems to be infected the same way. ie loses head quickly and tastes
worse as time goes by.
Is it possible this malt was infected with something that could survive 2
hrs of boiling? Does anyone know what it was that likely infected these
batches?
- ----------------------------------
http://www.satech.net.au/~scarman
mailto:scarman@satech.net.au
- ----------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:32:44 +0000
From: Marc Lueck <marc@guardian.co.uk>
Subject: Acid Levels in home grown hops
I was wondering if anyone has ANY clue how to check (relatively
non-technically) the alpha acid values of home-grown hops. I at least know
the breeds I will be growing, but my soil could be COMPLETELY different
from the guy who I am getting it from - therefore, seeing the differences
different year's crops can make in store-bought hops, I thought it'd be a
shame to make 5 gallons up only to find that they were double strength (not
so bad) or worse, half strength! (yuck!)
Can anybody help me?
Marc Lueck
New Media Lab
Guardian Newspapers Ltd.
marc@guardian.co.uk / http://www.guardian.co.uk
The views expressed by my employer have absolutely nothing to do with my own.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 06:26:19 -0500
From: Douglas Kerfoot <dkerfoot@macatawa.org>
Subject: Temp Conrtoller
Just a reminder that my homepage still lists plans for a temperature
controller that will heat or cool. I also use a modified version of it
for controlling the temp of my rims system. I havn't updated it in a
while, but will be glad to answer any questions. I have been using them
for almost 2 years now. You can make one for as little as $28.00
Doug Kerfoot
http://macatawa.org/~dkerfoot/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 06:25:12 -0800
From: John Sullivan <sullvan@anet-stl.com>
Subject: Re: A Seat of the Pants Brewing Tip
This regards the thread recently on evaporation rate and topping up your
kettle. It ain't scientifically exact like many of you want, but it
works well for me.
1. A one time task is required. Using a known volume of water (i.e.,
quart pitcher, gallon jug, etc.), add water to your brew kettle in
increments of your choosing. Get a cheater stick (or use your spoon if it
is wooden). For each increment that you add, dip the stick into the
water and then notch the water mark on the stick. When finished mark the
cheater stick to show the various increments. In reality, you may
need no more than the notches if you can't count down from the top of
the stick. You now have a device that you can gauge the volume of what
is in your kettle.
2. After brewing a few times, you will get an idea of how much you will
lose based via evaporation for a given boil time. Even so, this is never
exact. What is most important here is first to have an idea of what your
starting volume should be and also to be able to guesstimate what your
loss in trub and hops might be. Once you have a general idea of these
two factors, you can come closer to ensuring that you have a proper
volume at the end of the boil (i.e., Measured volume minus expected loss
will equal your final volume).
3. My recipes will factor in what my expected loss to trub and hops
might be. For example, if I am brewing a 10 gallon batch for most styles
using whole hops, I can generally expect to lose about a gallon due to
hops and trub. So I develop my recipe for 11 gallons instead of 10.
This way, I know that my bittering, if not correct, will at least be
close. Also, I have an idea that I will lose about a gallon over the
length of the boil. Even though my recipe is for 11 gallons, I try to
ensure that after sparging, I have at least 12 gallons to account for the
loss to evaporation.
4. At about 10-15 minutes before knockout, I measure my volume. Remember
if your kettle is vigorously boiling that your reading won't be exact.
(Should probably factor in for expansion of liquid too...anyone have a
factor here??). Assuming a gallon loss for break and hops, I am looking
for around 11 gallons on the cheater stick. If I am short, I add the
couple of quarts (filtered, treated, yada yada) or so that I may be
lacking. For volumes this low, don't worry about your bittering over the
last 10 minutes of the boil. While it may have a minor affect, it
generally won't matter much. Now this also does not mean to ignore the
contribution of your late hop additions either.
5. After chilling, when you rack, leave the bulk of your trub and hops
behind. Unless you are exacting and anal retentive, you'll get enough
trub to assist your fermentation.
Now, I've probably not said somethings exactly correct here, so if you
want to E-Mail me, I will clarify. Anyway, I'd like to say that a proper
technique is sometimes more important than all the brewing science
knowledge that those techniques are based upon. I know many that
understand little about brewing science, but understand how to brew
because they have been instructed properly. To them it is like baking
bread. They don't know why it turns out well, they just know it is going
to be good. This is a proper forum to discuss brewing science, but I
think sometimes we have to realize that we have another audience who
sometimes want it kept simple.
John Sullivan
St. Louis MO
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 12:47:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@Lilly.com>
Subject: Lactic acid souring, bacteria
Sorry for sending both parts of my long brewing story in the same
HBD...thought that waiting a day would be long enough to hit the
next issue. On to some brewing...
Mark Bayer wrote re souring a mash or partial mash:::
>minimize contact with the air, and insulate. after 24 to 72 hours, the
>bacteria lactobacillus delbrueckii will have created enough lactic acid to
>give your beer a definite lactic flavor contribution. this sour mash will
>From my recollection, it is not a lactobacillus strain which proliferates
in a warm mash (105F); rather a few pediococcus strains commonly found
on grains grow at 105F, particularly under anaerobic conditions, to
produce acetic acid and not lactic acid. Some have claimed there to
be a difference in taste in soured mashes depending on the use of a
pediococcus or lactobacillus. Anyone recall the exact details? There
was a nice article in Brewing Techniques, in early 1996 I think, which
describes this but which I don't have in front of me. Thoughts?
I mention this not to nit-pick with Mark but rather to seek an
accurate description of the bacteria involved in sour mashes not
externally inoculated. Anyone?
As for the original post about wanting to use lactic acid to sour a
fermented (wit?) beer, search back over the 1996 archives for wit
and lactic...you should find several summary posts guiding you in
amounts to use. Off the TOMH, I believe 1-5mL/5gal is referenced;
I used 1mL/5gal and was pleased with my wit. Note that most sources
say longer aging is required when adding lactic acid to get mellowed
flavors.
Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-B Brewery, (v.) Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 07:52:35 -0500
From: stevens@stsci.edu (Mark Stevens)
Subject: Spirit of Free Beer homebrew competition
BURP's fifth annual Nation's Capital "Spirit of Free
Beer" homebrew competition will be held June 7 in
Vienna VA. Entries will be due by May 30. This is a
BJCP sanctioned competition. All major beer styles,
plus cider and mead are eligible.
BURP always awards great prizes to all of the winners.
Both ribbons and prizes will be awarded to all category
winners with the best of show winner earning the
chance to scale-up and brew a batch of the winning
recipe at the Virginia Beverage Company.
We're also looking for judges. All BJCP judges are invited
to come judge with us. We're a fairly easy drive from NC
or PA. BJCP judges who would like to judge at this
competition should contact Greg Griffin (gmgriff0@wcc.com).
Entry packets will be mailed in early April. Anyone who
would like to request a packet should contact Mark Stevens,
stevens@stsci.edu.
Cheers!
- ---Mark Stevens
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:34:51 -0800
From: "STARCAT" <starcat@pathwaynet.com>
Subject: growing hops
Hello All! I found a patch of wild hops on the old family farm the middle
of last summer. I cleared out all the Tanzi that was also in the patch,
and managed to get a small harvest. This spring I'll be able to go at it
for real. I do have one book on hop growing, but I'd appreciate any
suggestions on growing techniques, fertilizer, and especially methods for
calculating bitterness in the finished product. I do know that they are
Cluster hops, if that helps anybody. Thanks!
Beer is better than women because.....when you walk into a bar you can
always pick up a beer.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 97 09:26:00 EST
From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess@mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Subject: RE: stout grist
Graham writes:
>********
>Reply to "phil" #2366
>
>Not too sure what your question is. If you wish to darken a beer that you
>have already brewed, you are going need to use an awful lot of chocolate
>malt to get it to Guinness colour (200EBC, app 196SRM). Guinness use 10%
>roast barley in their grist. The best bet I would think, would be to boil
>up some roast barley (13-14oz per US 5 gall) in a minimal amount of water
>and add this water to your cask. You can prime at the same time if you wish
>to. There is no need to mash either roast barley or black malt. Not much
>point in mashing choc malt either, although there is a bit of fermentable
>extract that can be obtained from it.
>
>If you are talking about brewing a different Guinness clone, then you need
>to get closer to the Guinness grist which is typically 10% roast barley,
>20-30% flaked barley (depending on type of Guinness) the rest is 60-70% of
>something like mild ale malt or any relatively high protein malt. The
>higher protein malt will have more enzymes to attack the flaked barley, and
>a protein haze isn't going to matter in a beer that's jet black.
>
>Graham Wheeler
>High Wycombe
>UK
Something else I've experienced is that not all roast barley is created
equal. I don't have the EBC or SRM references handy, but UK roast barley is
a higher number (darker) than some of the domestic (US) roast barley that
I've used. Maybe like 350 vs 500, or so. If using US roast barley it may
be a good idea to use some black patent malt to get that jet black color.
This is not exactly authentic, if trying to clone Guinness, but it works.
I've used US roast barley as the only color malt and didn't quite end up
with a dark enough color. Nice beer, but it just didn't look quite right.
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:02:48 -0500 (EST)
From: AJN <neitzkea@frc.com>
Subject: Brewing terminology
I would like clarification on the following terms about brewing
Crushing grains -- This is the process of taking whole grains and
breaking the husks off while breking the kernel into smaller peices.
The husks should remain as unbroken as posible.
Mashing -- The processing of converting the grain starch to fermentable
sugar, this can be done with step infusion, single infusion or decot.
Lautering -- ?
Sparging -- Rinsing the sugars from the mash
First wort hopping (FWH) -- Adding the hops before the boil begins?
Chilling -- Cooling the boiled wort as quickly as possible, imersion or
counter flow.
Fermenting -- Adding yeast to the cooled wort for a period of time.
Dropping -- The process of transfering to a secondary fermenter and
areating, this is done before primary fermentation is complete?
Priming -- Adding a small amount of fermentables to the finished beer for
carbonization in kegs or bottles.
Kegging -- Moving the finished beer to kegs for consumtion.
Bottling -- Moving the finished beer to bottles for consumtion.
Corrections and additions to all terms and explaination would be
appreciated, private e-mail only and I will summerize to the HBD.
Thanks,
_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea@frc.com
Brighton, Mi CEO of the NightSky brewing Company
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 97 11:33:14 -0500
From: "Trollhattan Motors, Inc." <direct@cybertroll.com>
Subject: Golden Gate Fermenter? / Temperature Control (Randy Reed)
Hello all;
I have been brewing, and reading the HBD for two months now.
It has been very helpful... I have a question, and something to
add from my experiences:
Question?
Has anyone had any experience in using the Golden Gate
( roundish ) kegs for fermenting. I would be interested in any
ideas, I have three of them to work with???
Are they better suited for any other purposes?
I will post a summary from private e-mails bob@cybertroll.com
**TEMPATURE CONTROL**
>3) Place the fermenters in a bucket or bin of water. Use an aquarium
>heater (at least 100 watts) with built in temperature scale (about $25)
>to warm the water to the desired temperature. (This was in the "Z"
>magazine, you know, the one from that non-profit organization) A number
>of replies raved about this. One person mentioned putting a tiny amount
>of bleach in the water to control the bacteria, as long as you are using
>closed fermentation.
I have used a large Rubbermade (tm) retired fish cooler. It has dual
lids ( one can be open, and the other closed ). I also use the method
# 3 with the addition of a 2-3 in thick layer of (non-biodegradable)
packaging peanuts floating on the surface this prevents evaporation, and
allows me to use 1 heater in a bath large enough to ferment 2 - 6.5 gal.
primary fermenters at the same time, with room to spare. If you use
bio peanuts they will quickly sink below the surface, and turn to a
wet toilet paper consistency... ( drain the whole thing and start over )
Test them in water before you use!!!
I have been using this system with no noticeable evaporation, maintaining
an constant 68 deg. bath, while switching several batches of beer through
the system. Ambient -room- temp 59 deg.
Hope this helps...
Cheers,
Bob Hopkins
"The Hoppy Brewer"
"Cybertroll Bob" - Saab & Volvo pts.
http://www.cybertroll.com
bob@cybertroll.com
------------------------------
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From: 00bkpickeril@bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Filemaker Pro Brew SW/ WY 1968 success
Just wanted to publicly thank Steve Zabarnick for posting his Filemaker
Pro 3.0 based brewing software. If you have FM Pro for Macintosh or
Windoze, this looks like a great basic brewing program. And since this is
not an app, it's easy to modify and customize for your own use. I already
changed the default brew length. I'll also add the 1997 AHA style info
which is not included--let me know if you want that--I'll send it to Steve
or to you if you want it.
- ------
Frederick L. Pauly writes that he likes the 1968 he's been using for the
last 3 batches. This is the last yeast I've used, though only once so far.
It worked well on a Bass clone, (but probably not the most authentic yeast
for it) even though the smack pack got really hot (over 100F!) for a few
hours. It swelled up really quickly, but seems fine. (Not that I have any
experience to compare to. I recently went on an informal quick tour of a
local brewpub and the brewer said he used it for everything. When I left I
remembered they have a lager. I wonder about that!
HBD has been great lately, keep it up. And thanks.
- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie IN
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:08:17 -0000
From: Graham Stone <gstone@dtuk.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Dropping wort
A short while ago I posed the question about the difference between
dropping wort and transferring from one container to another. After many
replies, I thought I'd reply with a summary of the options I received.
This is a story of brewing jargon really. Dropping is the practice of
transferring wort from one container to another at a very early stage in
the fermentation process (1-2 days). During this transfer process, it is
optionally suggested that one might deliberately allow the wort to become
aerated by letting the wort splash into the second container (for example
by having the first container on a work surface, the second container on
the floor and syphoning the wort with a short tube). This is the dropping
process. Why do it? Dropping is done as soon as the fermentation really
takes a hold (the yeast crust start forming). At this stage there is a lot
of active yeast in suspension. What we are trying to do is transfer the
wort off any undesirable material (trub, dead yeast etc.) which may after
1-2 days have settled to the bottom of the fermenting container. The
purpose of allowing the wort to become aerated is encourage further yeast
growth in the second container. Since the yeast will be now have taken a
hold, the risk of infection is reduced. But be warned. This technique
(the aeration in particular) may not be applicable to all types of yeast
(top vs bottom fermenters or even different strains of the same type).
Nevertheless, this technique seems to result in wonderfully clean yeast in
the second container. Does it improve the taste? Dunno! It might help if
one wanted to recover yeast from one batch and use for a second, however.
How does this relate to transferring the wort to a "secondary fermenter".
A popular technique for brewing bitter (at least in the UK anyway) is to
ferment the wort for about 4 days before transferring to a second vessel to
complete the fermentation (another 4 days or so). This is NOT primary f
ollowed by secondary fermentation. Primary fermentation involves the
complete process of fermenting down to the desired final gravity.
Secondary fermentation is what takes place either in the cask on in a
bottle FOR PURPOSES OF CONDITIONING. You see, it all comes down to jargon
and what one is trying to achieve and when you do the transferring.
If anyone has a different angle on this subject, I'd be delighted to be
corrected or enlightened. I must emphasis that most of my experience is in
brewing bitter so the lager brewers might have an entirely different
perspective (or not interest at all). Thanks again to everybody who helped
to explain this to me - everything written here is the work of other
authors!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 97 12:54:12 CST
From: jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Hot wort through vinyl tubing
Dave Burley says he siphons hot wort through vinyl tubing to his CF chiller
and Spencer Thomas warns against it, suggesting the use of silicone tubing.
Now, my situation is a little different in that I don't siphon but run
from a spigot on the bottom of my kettle to my CF chiller but I thought I
would offer my approach in case it might help someone.
I used to run from my kettle spigot through vinyl tubing to my CF chiller
but then I thought to buy an NPT to compression fitting which I screwed into
my kettle spigot then slip the copper tubing of my CF chiller into the
compression fitting part and tighten it down. This links my CF chiller
directly to my spigot with no need for tubing for the hot wort to flow
through. Maybe everyone else is already doing this but it is a suggestion
if not.
By the way, I agree wholeheartedly with John Varady's comments about
complaints about AHA and other wastes of bandwidth in HBD. This is all the
bandwidth I plan to waste discussing it.
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins@imtn.dsccc.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:31:40 -0600
From: Loe Larry <Larryl@arkleg.state.ar.us>
Subject: Lacto-What?
I recently moved from San Antonio to Little Rock. I have brewed three
beers. The first came out OK. The last two beers have been my first
full boil beers. Both have fermented out in 3-5 days. When I move them
to the secondary, after 3 days a semi-clear white skin appears on the
top of the beer.
I have throoughly used iodophor, to the point of using 1.5 times what is
asked for. I treated the hoses. In fact, the last time, I bought new
hoses to use for racking.
Should I just let it ferment and then leave it in the primary for two
weeks?
I'm afraid this may be the only way to get rid of this bacteria. At
least I am assuming it is Lactobacillus(sp).
Help! How can I get rid of this sour scourge?
Larry-----Little Rock, AR
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 14:40:44 EST
From: vee12@juno.com
Subject: Hops
Can someone let me know when I should plant hops. I live in the northeast
part of Texas.
Butch V.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:20:40 -0500
From: Jenny & Bob Pakulski <bobpak@erols.com>
Subject: Last word on Starters
Hello brewing collective,
I've been lurking around here and a few other places and through bits &
pieces I have heard/read there is more to the making of a Starter than I
was aware. It seems that some of you customize your starter, by quantity
and SG based on the type of beer you are brewing. Is there some rule of
thumb, table, database or other concoction available with this info or do
you just wing it? (No way, not this group)
Thanks,
Bob P in Falls Church VA.
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril@bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Re: Sieving hot wort
Spencer said:
>I sought out and bought silicone tubing after ruining two batches (I'm
>a slow learner) by siphoning hot wort through new vinyl tubing. It
>imparted a very obvious and disgusting plastic flavor to the beer.
>It is clear (well, slightly cloudy), and has a rated working
>temperature range up to about 400F, so I can even autoclave it or bake
>it in the oven to sterilize it, if I so desire.
Folks, be sure to poke around and ask questions at the hardware store. I
had a great supply here, but was afraid to buy and use it at first because
I didn't have any info on it's appropriateness for food, and had heard of
tradegies like Spencer's before on the HBD. I had purchased hose at a
local farm supply store and that was clearly marked as "Food grade" but it
was a long trip out there and a bit more expensive. Recently, I found some
literature near the hoses at the mega hardware store and they actually
listed "Beer" in the fine print as an application for the hose! It does
get flimsy at high temps, but isn't silicone flimsy anyhow? Vinyl is a lot
cheaper if you can verify that it's food grade.
Good luck,
- --Brian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 97 15:22:17 CST
From: jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: aeration
Does anyone know the minimum volume of O2 necessary to oxygenate 5 gallons
of wort to the maximum level (8 ppm?)? By this I mean assuming that all the
O2 bubbled through the wort was absorbed. It would also be nice to know the
practical minimum volume of O2 necessary if that is not too ambiguous a figure.
Also, would the volume of air be 5 times the O2 number since air is
approximately 20 percent oxygen? I have asked this last question on HBD twice
before with no answer.
Does anyone know the answer to these questions? Surely this is more relevant
that brew dogs.
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins@imtn.dsccc.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:05:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Nathan Moore <moorent@bechtel.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: NonStarter, honey and alcohol flavor
Well I've taken the long awaited step and I'm finally making
starters. Problem is, it isn't starting. Its a tad less then a 1/2 gal.
with a tad less then a 1/2 lb of pale extract (hope that isn't to
technical). I boiled the wort for 15 min, poured into sanitized bottle,
applied airlock, cooled in ice water bath, airated by shaking, and pitched
yeast around 70 degrees and kept it there. It is now 16 hrs later and
very little activity. Just a few bubbles at the top. I did give it a
shake and the airlock bubbled a lot so there is some activity. I also
wiffed the gas coming from the airlock and it smells "clean" so I doubt
there is contamination. Is this a normal lag? What can I do to shorten
it?
One other quick question. I had this idea to brew a light ale, OG
about 1.035, and add 2 lbs of honey to the secondary (5 gal batch). I was
thinking that if I reduced the temperature to about the lowest threshold
of the yeast at the time of the addition I could reduce the higher alcohol
character that the honey might add. My goal here is a very light and
refreshing ale with a bit of honey character. Since the flavor profile
would be very simple with a low hop rate I'm afraid the 2lbs of honey
would add to much alcohol without the lower temp. Does this make since or
can someone think of a better method?
Thanks
Nathan Moore
Denver, CO
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:46:33 -0500
From: Mike_Bell@ccmail.va.grci.com
Subject: Brew Kettles
I just finished modifying some half barrel kegs to use as brew kettles. I
brewed a 5 gallon batch in them to verify there weren't any problems, and I
ran across a couple of things that concerned me.
I've read in a couple of places about adding a thermometer well to the
kegs, but I can't quite seem to picture how this is done. Can anyone
enlighten me?
I was using an old dial thermometer and ended up cooking its plastic face.
It now permamently reads 85F. Anyone know of a source for a good dial
thermometer that won't melt in the heat environment? I'm using a 160K BTU
jet style burner--it sounds like an airplane engine, but it sure beats
heating on the electric stovetop.
I notice that the steel around the bottom of the keg was a little
discolored from the heat. This is only true on the rim around the bottom.
Is there any problem with this?
Regards,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 00:23:06 UT
From: "Peter Touborg" <vanfunk@msn.com>
Subject: Brew Software
Just a quick question for the honorable collective-
IYO what is the best brewing software currently available for Win 95? The more
sophisticated and editable the better. I seem to recall a software face-off in
Zymurgy several years ago, but I'm looking for something more current. Prices
and retailers would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help. Private
e-mail is fine.
Vanfunk@msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:26:42 -0600 (CST)
From: erikvan@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Sour beer/ Siphoning
In HBD #2367, Mark Bayer suggested an interesting, but lengthly way
to sour a mash, by :
"mashing in 10% or so of the grist bill a few days before you brew.
Take it through a saccharification rest, and then lower the temp.
to around 120 or so, toss in a handful of uncrushed pale malt, etc..."
Well, try a much easier method. Take one cup of crushed grain out of
your grain bill. Put this aside, mash as usual. When your mash is done,
cool to around 110-120F, as quickly as possible, add cup of grain.
Cover and let sit for about 12 hours. Sparge as usual, boil, etc.
With this method, you don't need to start a couple days earlier,
and can easily start the mash the night before, and sparge/boil
the next morning. Now I personally have not tried this, but the
brewer of a local brewpub did a 5 gallon "test batch" of stout.
Tried it, with nitrogen, and could swear it was guinness. You
be the judge.
Also,
In HBD #2367, a couple of comments on siphoning techniques.
Read the winter 1996 issue of Zymurgy, "Airing Things Out".
On page 67, it shows a very simple siphoning method. I too was
a dreader of the siphon, but upon trying it this way, have had
nothing but success. Even works into kegs with a little modification.
That's just my two cents...
Erik Vanthilt
The Virtual Brewery
Http://www.netcom.com/~erikvan/brewery.html
Hints, news, recipes, monthly e-mail and more....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 08:37:10 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org>
Subject: Homebrew Digest Near Meltdown!
Greetings from your Digest Janitors.
We have had a serious problem with people who run poorly setup email
vacation filters. I have spent over 2 hours of precious spare time (that
could have been used for brewing), in cleaning up a mess from one single
misconfigured email vacation filter. Thank goodness I had the forsight to
set the load throttling mechanism on the HBD's server to avoid a total
meltdown.
The problem was caused by the filter sending a nice little "I'm out of the
office..." type message without keeping track of who it sent to. That
coupled with the fact that a special keyword would appear in the vacation
message that would trick the request program into thinking it had to do
something when it did not. This would generate a mail message back to the
user. Basically for every message sent to the user, 2 more would be
generated. As you can guess, this built up to an unacceptable level very
fast.
I have removed the offending user from the list, plus I've added a filter
to dump any mail that comes from his account for the next few days to make
sure this problem is stopped.
I am asking all subscribers to please unsubscribe from this list (or
BEER-L if that is where you get your HBD from), when you will be away from
your email, rather than cause problems with vacation filters.
Also, I know that there are a few re-distribution lists out there.
Please remember WHERE you get your digest from and deal with the site for
the various requests you have. The digest janitors cannot deal with your
requests or bounced mail problems if you are not subscribed to the main
Homebrew Digest list. We've had to remove service to one such
re-distribution list when a small email storm was created by yet another
vacation filter.
Lastly, if your mail facility is limited to mail messages under 50K in
length, you will have to get your Digest from an alternate location.
When a site bounces back a digest due to length restrictions, we have
no recourse but to delete you from the distribution list. Alternative
access points are:
for anonymous FTP,
brew.oeonline.com /pub/hbd
ftp.stanford.edu /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
for an HTML-ized version
http://alpha.rollanet.org/hbd
==================================================================
Karl Lutzen lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
System Administrator
The Brewery http://alpha.rollanet.org/
Homebrew Digest Janitor and SysAdmin. http://brew.oeonline.com/
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2368, 03/07/97
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