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HOMEBREW Digest #2373
HOMEBREW Digest #2373 Thu 13 March 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
RE: Digging Rhizomes (erikvan)
re: Brewing music ("Ted Major")
decoction at mashout (Tim Martin)
Sparge/Mash and Mash/Kettle interfaces... (Dave Riedel)
Dropping yet again (Michael Newman)
The Beer Recipator (Mark Riley)
Where to purchase hops?? (Steve)
Immersion Chiller Experiment (Jim Bentson)
Fw: German pilsen malt (Ron Karwoski)
Late-Nite Pubs in Silicon Valley ("Penn, Thomas")
A more efficient brew day (Art Steinmetz)
Wheats of All Kinds (Ken Blair)
Kustom Keg Kooler ("Penn, Thomas")
Custom Keg refridgeration ("Mack Huntress")
Kegging - foamy beer (Ian Smith)
re: pH meter haywire (Dave Whitman)
Charbrau (Bob McCowan)
Haywire pH/Starters (A. J. deLange)
Brew-Tunes ("Karl F. Lutzen")
AOB/AHA complaints (joe-sysop)
Re: Wyeast 1275 (Thames Valley) (David Hammond)
contest announcement (Btalk)
re:Yeast Starter Tasting ("Sornborger, Nathan")
RE: brewing music..../Scottish/PLAID REVISITED!!! (Scott Abene)
RE: Conditioning in secondary vs bottle/keg (Brian Pickerill)
Re: Wyeast 1275 (Thames Valley)/ 1318 London Ale III (Scott Abene)
Stuck EZMasher (tm) and Slo ("Craig Rode")
It's Spring!!! ("Bridges, Scott")
Re: Liquid Transfer using Peristaltic Pumps ("Kim Lux")
Fermentation, ("David R. Burley")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:42:51 -0600 (CST)
From: erikvan@ix.netcom.com
Subject: RE: Digging Rhizomes
Marty Tippin wrote in HBD 2371 -
>Just wondering whether this is the appropriate time of the year to dig up
>rhizomes from my hop plants - a fellow brewer is concerned that doing it
>now will disturb the hill and affect growth this year; he would prefer to
>dig them up in the fall but doesn't know whether it makes a difference or
>not when you do the digging. I'm guessing that the rhizomes you'll be able
>to buy in a few weeks are being dug up right now (as opposed to being
>stored all winter long) so my gut feeling is that now is the right time.
>Anyone know for sure?
You are correct, now is the right time to dig them up.
Depending on where you live, but as soon as the ground becomes workable,
in the spring, dig the rhizomes up and cut them into smaller pieces. So
yes, wait until spring or now, to do it. You can expect 75 percent of
healthy cuttings to take root, according to the author of
10 Tips for Hops Growers, BYO March 1997. But you probably want to
do it before growth appears. My plants have about 5 inch vines on them,
I fear digging now would damage growth, so I'll wait until next year
about Feb.( I live in San Diego, CA), to split rhizomes. Once in the
ground, water well and fertilize with manure, and you'll have great hops.
Good luck with your hops,
Erik Vanthilt
The Virtual Brewery
Http://www.netcom.com/~erikvan/brewery.html
Recipes, hints, news, monthly newsletter, and more...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:39:18 -0400
From: "Ted Major"<tmajor@exrhub.exr.com>
Subject: re: Brewing music
I recommend Traffic's "John Barleycorn Must Die" (esp. for old-fashioned
English-style ales and braggots), and while they're not exactly about home
brewing, Flatt & Scruggs' "Drinking the Mash and Talking that Trash" and
"Dooley" by the Dillards (aka the Darling Family of Andy Griffith fame):
Dooley was a good old boy, he lived below the mill/ Dooley had two
daughters and a forty-gallon still/ One girl watched the boiler, the other
watched the spout/ and Mama corked the bottles when old Dooley fetched them
out.
Ted Major, Athens, GA
tmajor@exr.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:41:01 -0500
From: Tim Martin <TimM@southwest.cc.nc.us>
Subject: decoction at mashout
Hey neighbors,
I got to thinking last night while reading some old archives about
decoctions that maybe I could do a quasi-decoction at mashout. I
currently don't do a mashout using my Gott cooler, in fact I have given up
after several feeble attempts. In addition, I have never done a decoction
but I thought this might be a simple evolutionary step.
I'm thinking of removing a third of the grains with a strainer (after
completion of mash) and transferring it to another kettle, adding water to
prevent scorching and boil for say 15 minutes and then return to the
mash tun for mashout. I guess I could pull grains and sweet wort to boil
since I am done with the enzymes anyway.
Do any of you decocers (new word) think I will enhance my beer with
this procedure or just waste my time and propane and ruin my beer. I'm
more concerned about flavor enhancement then reaching mashout
temperature.
TIA
Tim Martin
Cullowhee, NC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:11:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL@ios.bc.ca>
Subject: Sparge/Mash and Mash/Kettle interfaces...
Recently, my attempts to find silicone tubing (good to *well* over 200F)
revealed a 50 foot minimum order requirement... needless to say, I'm looking
at alternatives. I wanted to use the tubing to
1. Connect my sparge water tank to my sprinkling attachment
2. Move the run-off point closer to the bottom of the kettle to
minimize HSA due to splashing
and 3. Connect my kettle to my CF chiller
while 4. Maintaining the convenience of flexability between tuns (converted
kegs).
I think a hard connection to the chiller won't be unmanagable, but what about
the mash tank outlet? Do most people just let the hot wort drop 2-3 feet to the
kettle bottom? As for the sparge water sprinkler... can regular tubing handle
170F water without collapsing? Any ideas out there?
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:55:52 -0500
From: Michael Newman <MWNewman@compuserve.com>
Subject: Dropping yet again
Ray Estrella comments on "dropping" that:
>By the time that the yeast is actively fermenting it is a little late to
pull it off the trub. If it is a good strong fermentation, it is going to
be kicking
up all that stuff at the bottom of your fermenter. You would be better off
transferring right at the end of the yeast's aerobic stage, what we call
the
lag period, before the krausen.<
The point of dropping is to separate the fermenting wort from both the trub
that remains at the bottom of the fermenter (and in my open fermenters MOST
of it stays put there) and the cruddy early yeast crop which is
contaminated with all sorts of rubbish including variable quantities of
trub. The amount of trub finding its way to the crop depends on the yeast
strain. If you want to see this phenomenon in action try using yeast raised
from a bottle of Cooper Sparkling Ale. The wort has to be racked off above
the trub and the flow stopped before the yeast crop is drawn into the
outflow.
It is a matter of debate whether the wort should be removed from the trub
(mainly cold break) before the start of fermentation or at a point early in
the fermentation (because the yeast thinks the free amino nitrogen in the
trub yummy isn't it?).
Michael Newman
MWNewman@compuserve.Com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MWNewman
Beer isn't the only thing in life; it's much more important than that.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:14:49 -0800
From: Mark Riley <mriley@netcom.com>
Subject: The Beer Recipator
Hello HBD,
I'd like to make a brief announcement about a new Internet
resource for homebrewers. The Beer Recipator is an online
recipe formulator that uses your web browser as the front
end for creating recipes. Once you've finished a recipe,
it will generate a report (in HTML) that you can save to
local disk or upload to your personal web pages.
You will find more information at the following URL:
http://alpha.rollanet.org/recipator
I'd like to thank Karl Lutzen of The Brewery for graciously
providing server space so that this resource could be made
available to the online homebrewing community.
Cheers,
Mark Riley
Sacramento, CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:59:04 -0600
From: Steve <srockey@egyptian.net>
Subject: Where to purchase hops??
Hello,
I am considering growing some hop plants this Spring, and I was =
wondering if anyone knows of any suppliers for the rhizomes? I have =
only been able to find the people at "Freshops." =20
Also, has anyone had better luck growing one variety over another? =
Suggestions?
Thanks,
Steve Rockey
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 21:55:56 -0500
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson@htp.net>
Subject: Immersion Chiller Experiment
To the collective:
A few months ago, we had a running thread going on about using immersion
chillers. At that time I was advocating slowly moving the immersion chiller
in an up and down motion to increase mixing via vortex shedding from the
coils. Since this was mainly hypothetical, I started to take some data that
might be of interest. The data is the average over four batches of beer.
In the first three batches I only used the slow up and down motion that I
had recommended. In the fourth batch, following some of the ideas from the
aeration thread, I started with my recommended slow motion but after the
wort reached 85 deg F, changed to a large, rapid large vertical motion to
promote aeration.
In all four batches the inlet water to the chiller was about 46 deg F.
The flow rate (estimated) was typically about 1/2 to 1 gpm. For all 4
batches, I found that after the first 5 minutes of cooling, the discharge
water was exiting at a significantly lower temperature than initially. At
this point, by moving the chiller vertically for about 4 up and down cycles
in about 10 sec, the discharge temperature became significantly hotter.
Typical numbers are 83 degs F discharge temp. before motion and 108 degs
after motion of the coil. In practical terms, the first case had a cooling
water temp. change of 37 deg F (inlet to outlet) while the second case had a
62 deg change. For the given flow rate this is a 67% higher cooling rate.
This cycle has to be repeated every few minutes to maintain the effect. It
is easy to implement as I just feel the outlet hose (carefully at the
beginning as it can be very hot!!). As the hose starts to feel cool, I
oscillate the coil and immediately feel a temp. increase
With the fourth batch (using the larger aerating motion at the end), the
fermentation activity started significantly faster (4 hours to bubbling vs.
about 8 to 10 for the other batches). In some respects this is a purely
speculative observation since the yeast strain and beer type were different
in each batch. All batches used Wyeast built up to 3 pints of starter.
While I realize that many in the group will disagree with what I did in
this last batch (worrying about contamination) , so far I can't detect any
off flavors in this beer. My personal feeling is that the chiller coils
are entraining the air into the liquid as they leave and enter the liquid
surface and that there are no large convective air currents set up in air
space in the pot. It is these currents which would cause the mixing of room
air into the air space at the top of the pot and thus would increase the
risk of contamination. If you are worried, you can hold the top partially
over the pot as you "aerate". This is equivalent to pitching in the
fermenter head space but much more effective.
Hope this helps some without disturbing the brew gods.
Regards
Jim Bentson, Centerport (L.I.) N.Y.
- --
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:03:02 -0900
From: Ron Karwoski <brewski@micronet.net>
Subject: Fw: German pilsen malt
I tried to post this to rec.crafts.brewing but for some reason nothing I
post shows up in the newsgroup. I would appreciate any input from the wise
and wonderful brew crew that would help me avoid another wasted brew day.
I only have time to brew once a week.
> Has anyone any information on the German Pilsen style malt?
> I tried it for the first time today and was unable to get it to convert.
>
> Normaly I brew with a base of two row and some other grain for flavor and
> body but this time I wanted to brew an authentic German style lager and one
> of the guys at the brew shop suggested I try this malt.
> After 4-5 hours of babysitting this mash I decided that it wasn't going
> to happen and drained the mash tun. Tommorrow I plan to get a new batch of
> grain and try again this time with at least 50% six row to be sure I have
> enough enzimes to achieve conversion.
>
> Am I right in assuming that this style malt can't be used alone, or am I
> missing something?
>
> TIA
> Ron
> --
> Real E-mail is:
> brewski@micronet.net
------------------------------
Date: 11 Mar 1997 22:22:31 -0400
From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas@msgw.vf.lmco.com>
Subject: Late-Nite Pubs in Silicon Valley
Here's a very specific, regional request:
I'm working a late shift for the next 2 weeks in Sunnyvale, CA-ending at 11pm.
All the nearby microbreweries that I know of are closed by this time. So,
does anyone know of a brewpub or bar with lots o' taps which is both nearby
and open until at least 12 midnight?
Please reply by private email to: penn#m#_thomas@msgw.vf.lmco.com
Many Thanks
Tom Penn
Bordentown, NJ
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:28:16 -0500
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm@pipeline.com>
Subject: A more efficient brew day
I am the proud new owner of a SABCO RIMS unit. After only two batches I
find my brew day is materially shorter despite similar mash, boil and
chilling times. The pre-set filter bed that recirculation provides makes
for a shorter sparge. Thats peculiar to the RIMS concept but a dramatic
time reduction also comes in liquid transfer and preparation for liquid
transfer times. Just close one valve and open another.
I mention this because I learned something I could have applied in the 10
years I was brewing with lobster pots and picnic coolers. Careful
attention to placement of vessels would have helped enormously. If I had
been smart I would have created a three-tier gravity arrangment before
starting each brew instead of lifting the pots, etc. up above the receiving
vessel at transfer time. I would have used rigid pvc pipe instead of soft
tubing for my transfers since I was continually watching the hose to make
sure it wasn't flopping about. At the very least it makes sense to more
formally secure various hoses and such.
I had thought about these issues in the past but didn't think they were
worth the effort. I was wrong.
- -- Art
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:48:36 -0600 (CST)
From: kblair40@midwest.net (Ken Blair)
Subject: Wheats of All Kinds
Starting brewing in early January and have my 5th batch happily bubbling
away (all extracts)! I seem to have become enamored with brewing wheats for
some reason. My first batch was a kit weiss from Brewmaster that turned out
well. After an Irish Stout that also did well, I brewed 2 weizenbiers to
which I added a pound of honey; one was about 4 gallons of wort while the
other was about 6 gallons (I was relaxing and having homebrew(s) while I did
them :) ). Both turned out well, though quite different due to the
difference in volume. My current batch is a Morgan's Wheat to which I added
3 lbs of light DME. Can't wait to see the character of this one!
Now my question(s):
* What adjuncts have any of you added to wheat and what sort of
characteristics did you get?
* For all my batches, the fermentation has taken place at ~75F and
have lasted no more than 2 to 2.5 days. What differences would I expect if
the fermentation took a longer amount of time (i.e. at a lower temp)? I
don't bottle/keg until at least a week (at least 3.5 days after no more
activity).
* Any ideas on how to easily prime a batch for both bottling and
kegging? I typically use 4 oz. of priming sugar mixed into the flat beer.
My stout came out over-carbonated (which I expected). I haven't tapped the
kegs of honey-wheat yet, but expect them to be pretty foamy. I'd prefer not
to have to separate the batch due to potential contamination and
"un-natural" losses :) .
Private e-mail expected and appreciated. I'll summarize the results if
appropriate.
Ken
------------------------------
Date: 12 Mar 1997 01:21:45 -0400
From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas@msgw.vf.lmco.com>
Subject: Kustom Keg Kooler
Kevin asked about tailoring a refrigerator/cooling coil to a keg. A different
suggestion comes to mind: Use Thermoelectric Coolers (TECs). These are low
voltage solid-state devices which cool using the Peltier effect. They are the
guts inside these electric food coolers that you see advertised. I have seen
a keg cooler system advertised in beer magazines. I'm not sure how
practical/efficient it is, but the idea is this: Wrap the keg in a thick
layer of insulation, and attach one or more TECs to the keg. Be sure to have
a good heat sink on the warm side of the coolers (fan or large metal heat
spreader). You will need a low voltage, high current power supply to convert
house current to the necessary levels. The TECs can be purchased from Melcor
in Trenton, NJ and from another company in Texas. Both companies have good
web pages with tech info.
Tom Penn
Bordentown, NJ
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:35:01 -0600
From: "Mack Huntress" <mack@deltanet.com>
Subject: Custom Keg refridgeration
>. I want to make this somewhat
> portable (just wheel it to destination and plug it in), so I prefer not
> using a standard
> off the shelf small fridge with door compartments, freezer, etc. I use
the
> cylindrical
> 5 or 3 gallon soda kegs. I am wondering if it is possible to wrap the
kegs
> in a cooling
> coil that is custom fitted. Is this possible with off the shelf plumbing
?
I recently heard of a micro using the refrigeration from water fountains to
cool couls wrapped around fermenters. I suppose if you could salvage an
old water fountain you could attempt a similar thing for a corney.
I'm not sure about the details but if it's possible then it seems as though
you could make a somewhat compact refridgeration unit. You might want to
make a jockey box instead. The parts are more readily available (and
cheaper most likely) and you don't even need electricity.
-Mack
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:36:00 -0700 (MST)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Subject: Kegging - foamy beer
I recently purchase a kegging system and need help! I carbonated at 40
psi for a day, reduced the pressure to 7 psi, chilled in refrigerator and
whenever I dispense a beer all I get is FOAM ! I am using a 1/4" ID
superflex clear vinyl hose about 3 feet long and one of those plastic "no
drip" beer taps. Can anyone help me with why I get 100% foam ???
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 08:03:12 -0500
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman@rohmhaas.com>
Subject: re: pH meter haywire
>
In HBD#2372 Russ Kruska asks about a crazy pH meter:
> Everything was
> going smoothly as I was getting a reduction in pH of 0.1 for each teaspoon
> of 10% lactic acid (I had made adjustments from 5.9 down to 5.6). I wanted
> to continue and get this down below 5.5 when suddenly my meter readings
> were bouncing all over the place (even up to 15 !!!).>
I strongly suspect either a loose connection, or that the meter or
electrode is just shot. In pH meters, you get what you pay for; how good
of a meter is/was it? In my experience, the lifetime of a meter costing
<$100 is about 6 months.
<opinion>
I'm a lab chemist. At work, I use a $500 Orion meter with a $120
electrode. For home brewing, I use ColorpHast pH strips. At $15/box of
100, I can make many more readings than I'd get before trashing a $100 el
cheapo meter, with very similar accuracy. YMMV, but I don't recommend pH
meters for home use.
</opinion>
> I had just calibrated the meter about 6 weeks ago with 4 and 7 buffer
> solutions. I also cool all readings to room temperature as I do not have
> ATC with my old meter. Any suggestions ???
This probably isn't related to the haywire readings, but you should
calibrate the meter at least once a day any time you use it. In the
absence of regular calibration, you shouldn't count on more than +/- 0.5 pH
unit accuracy.
In between uses, clean the electrode carefully, then store it with the tip
immersed in saturated KCl solution ("keeper solution") or pH 4 buffer.
Under no circumstances should you allow the tip to dry out.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 08:21:14 -0500
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan@bmd.cpii.com>
Subject: Charbrau
About 5 weeks ago or so I brewed a dark lager using a 2-decoction mash.
Unfortunately while boiling the first decoction I let the mash scorch. I
didn't worry, cleaned the kettle and continued the brew.
Now, I have 5 gallons of dark lager with charcoal overtones. Anyone have
any ideas on how to get rid of the burnt taste? If not, I can always
pretend that it was supposed to taste that way.
Bob
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob McCowan
ATG/Receiver-Protector voice: (508)-922-6000 x208
CPI BMD fax: (508)-922-8914
Beverly, MA 01915 e-mail: bob.mccowan@bmd.cpii.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:26:43 -0500
From: ajdel@mindspring.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Haywire pH/Starters
Russ Kruska's pH meter went haywire in the middle of a brew. As the event
involved wild readings all over the scale I would assume that a wire broke
probably where it enters the probe or at the BNC connecter. One can get a
rough idea as to what is going on by a few simple tests. One is to lay out
the electrode (in its soaker cap or bottle) and meter on a table top and
move your hand near the lead wire and electrode. If this results in wild
excursions of the reading it indicates an open circuit, possibly through a
broken wire but possibly also due to exhaustion of the reference elecrode
filling solution (is it a sealed electrode?). To check the meter itself
short the inner pin in the input connector to the connector shell. This is
best done with a terminating connector i.e. one with the center pin
soldered to the sleeve but a paper clip will do in a pinch. The meter
should read a steady pH near 7. Erratic readings under these circumstances
indicate a problem (again probably an intermittancy) in the meter itself.
I'd put my money on the electrode and replace it as the nature of the
observations indicate it's something dramatic and not just ageing of the
electrode. If it's refillable, try that before shelling out for a new one.
Also check to be sure the junction is freely flowing.
Note that pH meters should be recalibrated at least daily if not more often.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Herb Tuten asked about tasting starters. Starters taste awful because the
object of a starter is to keep yeast in the exponential phase so that they
reproduce rapidly. The metabolites of this phase don't make for very tasty
beer which is why lagers are pitched with huge quantities of yeast and
mimimum aeration. In checking a starter, therefore, what you are looking
for is the presence of bacterial infection. This tends to result in foul
smells rather than the admittedly unpleasant chemical smells and tastes
(very sour) of an otherwise normal starter. About the only comfort I can
offer is that with experience you will come to know what's normal and what
isn't.
A. J. deLange
- Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.
Please Note New e-mail Address
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 06:45:52 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org>
Subject: Brew-Tunes
I was following this thread and I simply have to introduce the homebrewing
community to a song a freind of mine wrote. He and his wife are local
muscians and go by the name of Sidio and Hall. Here's the first verse and
chorus:
Life's Just Something To Do
I've always been a seeker after knowledge and truth,
wondered why the stares are in the sky.
I never cared for details, what, when or where.
Spent my life asking why.
And I heard those philosophers, politicians, and saints.
I read that catalogue from Sears.
All available evidence indicates,
life's just something to do while you're drinking beer.
Life's just something to do while you're drinking beer.
...
At least I feel it's quite profound. Afterall, as homebrewers, don't we
live our lives while thinking and drinking beer?
==================================================================
Karl Lutzen lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
System Administrator
The Brewery http://alpha.rollanet.org/
One of the Homebrew Digest Janitors janitor@brew.oeonline.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:01:43 -0500
From: joe-sysop@cyberbury.net
Subject: AOB/AHA complaints
Hi, folks;
I've been lurking for a few years, posted once or twice. I'm
(believe it or not) a confirmed extract brewer, since I haven't the
time to spare for all-grain, or the ready cash to invest in equipment.
I've seen quite a bit of discussion (haven't we all?) about
the way the AOB/AHA does/doesn't work for us. (I'm not a member, by
the way. Just haven't been able to free up the membership fee, since
I'm dirt poor.) Most of the complaints seem to finish up with
something like, "SOMEBODY should start up another organization more
responsive to its membership."
Well, rather than waiting around for this "somebody" to show
up, why don't we do it? Here on the HBD, I feel we have a nucleus for
something. Thinking off the top of my head, you could also pull in
rec.crafts.brewing, and set up a pretty cool Internet-based
organization, with a minimum of cash outlay.
While I'm not exactly sitting around with a lot of time on my
hands, I'd be willing to work to help set something up. I would enjoy
it, too.
There, I've said it. You can direct all responses/flames/death
threats to either joe-sysop@cyberbury.net or
joseph.labeck.jr@snet.net.
Joseph M. Labeck, Jr. joe-sysop@cyberbury.net
Writer, House-husband, Dad
"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember what you said!"
Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Registered
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:26:46 -0500 (EST)
From: David Hammond <hammer@nexen.com>
Subject: Re: Wyeast 1275 (Thames Valley)
>
> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:03:50 -0600
> From: Charles Epp <chuckepp@ukans.edu>
> Subject: Wyeast 1275 (Thames Valley)/ 1318 London Ale III
>
> Hello fellow brewers:
>
> What is your experience with Wyeast's 1275 Thames Valley strain? This
> is one of the relatively new strains, and I'm curious about its
> performance and characteristics. When I visited England a few years ago
> I was very impressed with the Henley (Brakspear) ales, supposedly the
> source for 1275.
>
I can't account for any attenuation numbers, but I just finished a
batch of British Bitter using Thames Valley that tastes very good
to me. It was my first use of liquid yeast.
I stepped it up twice, over the course of about 4 days, pitching on
the 4th day (about 400 ml of starter). Primary fermentation began
within 4 - 6 hours.
Primary fermentation seemed to go on forever, nearly a full week!
It ultimately appeared to flocculate well, but that, too, took a
while. I left it in the secondary for an additional 2 weeks, bottled,
and the resulting finished beer is quite clear. I nailed the FG.
On a side note concerning this yeast, when I went to my local store
to buy it, the master brewer for a local microbrew/restaurant beat
me to it and bought their entire stock of this particular yeast.
Don't know whether he was using it for the first time or not, but
this may also have been a good sign of this yeast's abilities.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:30:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Btalk@aol.com
Subject: contest announcement
Contest announcement and call/beg for judges.
The third annual Parlor City Brew Off, a BJCP sanctioned homebrew contest, is
scheduled for April 19 at the A.O.H Hall in Binghamton, NY.
All recognized styles of beer, cider and mead will be accepted.
Any type bottles accepted, carbonaters accepted and returned. Refer to entry
packets for details.
Best of Show for beer wins a $100.00 gift certificate from West Creek
HOmebrew of Endicott NY.
Best Of Show for Meads and Ciders wins a gallon (12 lb) of honey.
Cool plaques will also be given for each BOS first place.
Ribbons will be awarded for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in each category.
Entry packets will be available around March 22 at the following dropoff
points: DOc's, Binghamton, NY; E.J. Wren, Liverpool, NY; Heller's HOmebrew,
Syracuse, NY; Eddy's Beverage/ The Hoppy Troll, Saratoga Springs, NY; Hudson
River Brew Supply, Troy, NY; The Brewery Shop (FX Matt Brewery) Utica, NY.
Entries may be dropped off or shipped to West Creek Brewing Supply, Endicott,
NY.
Entry deadline is Friday, April 11.
Kurt Nelson, organizer <Nelson_K@sunybroome.edu>
Judges and stewards - we need your help - please contact Bob Talkiewicz
<btalk@aol.com> Breakfast stuff and Lunch provided:)
For entry packets or miscellaneous info, contact assistant organizer Roger
Haggett <rhaggett@juno.com>
This is the final event in the NY Homebrewer of the Year circuit.
Later,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk@aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:01:58 -0500
From: "Sornborger, Nathan" <nsornborger@email.mc.ti.com>
Subject: re:Yeast Starter Tasting
Herb asked:
>My question is: How do you check
>a yeast starter if the yeast is one which produces 'off''
>flavors initially but improves with time? I've read
>several accounts of this yeast producing bad flavors
>early, but becoming excellent after lagering. Any ideas?
I have always taken a sample and put it under the microscope. The one
case when I found an infection it was obvious in comparison to the usual
yeast.
Nate Sornborger, Barrington, RI
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:09:52 -0600
From: Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com>
Subject: RE: brewing music..../Scottish/PLAID REVISITED!!!
>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:11:41 EST
>From: "Rich Byrnes USAET(UTC -05:00)"
<rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com>
>Subject: (U)
>
>>From: Dckdog@aol.com
>>Subject: brewing music....
(BIG SNIP)
>
>WARNING! Don not, under any circumstance listen to anything Scottish or
Irish
>while brewing, many Celtic performers wear plaid while recording and you
>definitely don't want that in your brew!
>
I love brewing while listening to Scottish folk music. I wear a lot of
plaid, play my babpipes to areate the wort. I even pitch my brew with a good
HAGGUS (sp?) starter!
IF IT'S NOT SCOTTISH... IT'S CRAP!
-Scott
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
# "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" #
################################################################
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril@bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: RE: Conditioning in secondary vs bottle/keg
Scott Murman <smurman@best.com> replies in 2372 to one of my posts:
>OK, I'll bite. What is it about being under pressure that is
>affecting how the yeast go about their business? It's my, often
>limited, understanding that when people refer to conditioning or aging
>of a beer they are referring to the yeast removing secondary
>fermentation byproducts and higher alcohols from the green beer (sour
>or other strange brews not included). At the same time, the yeast are
>often removing desirable fermentation byproducts BTW. How does
>pressure affect the yeasts performance?
I don't know how it works, frankly, I get lost in a lot of the chemical and
biological discussions--they're very interesting, but I'm not adequately
trained in those fields. What I do know to be true of my brewing is that I
have let my ales sit in the secondary for months and still had to wait for
bottle/keg conditioning--not just carbonation--there was major flavor
development after the beer was carbonated.
Also, Mike Cinibulk Bellbrook, Ohio cinibumk@ml.wpafb.af.mil also replies:
>This reminded me of a question that I keep forgetting to ask. What is the
>best way to lager if priming in the bottle to carbonate? In secondary and
>then bottle, or bottle when fermentation is complete and then cool to lager?
>Does a closed system matter (to allow CO2 to scrub out H2S, etc., which BTW I
>never see occuring)? Does pressure matter as Brian claims? Is there enough
>yeast present if we rack the beer of off the thin yeast cake in the secondary?
>Does OG of the wort or style (Pils vs. Doppelbock) matter?
>
>I would prefer to bottle and carbonate first and then lager in the bottle.
Well, I have very little experience with lagers, but it seems to me that
you would need to do some lagering before you bottle as there are gasses
being scrubbed out of solution that you probably don't want to any great
extent in the final product. In any case, I was not arging for "lagering
in the bottle" just stating that I think some period of conditioning under
pressure is beneficial no matter how long you lager the beer (or let it sit
in secondary). If fermentation is complete, you can certainly force carb
and enjoy the beer right away, but it normally will continue to improve
somewhat if you let it condition under pressure.
- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie Malt Mashers, Muncie, IN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:40:06 -0600
From: Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Wyeast 1275 (Thames Valley)/ 1318 London Ale III
Charles Epp <chuckepp@ukans.edu>
Wrote:
>Hello fellow brewers:
>
>What is your experience with Wyeast's 1275 Thames Valley strain? This
>is one of the relatively new strains, and I'm curious about its
>performance and characteristics. When I visited England a few years ago
>I was very impressed with the Henley (Brakspear) ales, supposedly the
>source for 1275.
>
>Also, I can add another data point on 1318, London Ale III. Although
>Wyeast reports that attenuation for 1318 should be 71-75%, other brewers
>have reported in this forum very sluggish ferments and poor attenuation
>when using that yeast (although performance may be improved when
>fermenting above 70 F). I recently used 1318 in an Old Ale and had a
>long (2 1/2 week) ferment at 68 F, with a miserable 66% attenuation,
>even with repeated rousing through vigorous shaking of the carboy.
>Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I've got an ESB going with 1318
>now, and I'm trying to keep it above 70 to see if temperature, as others
>reported, makes much difference. I'll try to report results when this is
>finished.
>
>In the meantime, I'd appreciate any observations on 1275 Thames Valley.
> Private email is fine, and I'll post a summary.
>
>Chuck in Lawrence, KS
I posted a query to the collective sometime last year about this yeast
strain to see what other people on the HBD were getting from this yeast.
Somewhere around 95% of the responses were experiencing major headaches from
the Thames Valley strain.
In my brewing, I have traditionally had great luck with yeast performance
and I haven't had a batch that was infected that I can remember. The Thames
Valley strain gave me nothing but trouble. Slow barely active ferments, long
primary ferments (one went for 26 days at 68f and still crapped out at 1.018).
The yeast left many of my brews tasting like christmas fruit baskets.
I have had great luck with the British Ale and the 1056 strain. One strain
of 1056 made it into 20 different batches with great success and no
mutation. I used the Thames on about five different tried and true recipes
and got the some pretty fruity, slow fermenting brews that tasted nothing
like the beer I know I brewed.
The over powering taste of the yeast was impossible to get rid of. One of my
wheat ales was lagered for over 30 days at about 36-40f and it still tasted
like a large glass of yeast.
I tried to ferment at different temps for primary. some in the low 60's (f)
and some around 70-76(f) to see what results I would get. For me it seemed
that the yeast performed the same at any temp. SLOW!
Also, as I said I used this strain on "tried and true" recipes. Recipes
where my final gravities have over time always been between 1.008 to 1.012.
With the Thames Valley my finals were more like 1.018 to 1.022.
So I ask the collective again....
Has anybody had good resluts with this yeast? How'd you achieve these results?
I and others would love to know..
C'ya!
-Scott
################################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ (Brew-Rat-Chat) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
# "If beer is liquid bread, maybe bread is solid beer" #
################################################################
------------------------------
Date: 12 Mar 1997 10:56:24 +0600
From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode@qmcin4.sdrc.com>
Subject: Stuck EZMasher (tm) and Slo
Howdy.
In HBD 2371, Paul S asks about a stuck sparge with the EZMasher. I have one
of those, and had used it for over 30 batches without a stuck sparge. Until a
couple of weeks ago. No change in my American Pale Ale grain bill from other
batches. Suddenly....slow to stopped. Took me 2.5 hours. What I found was
that while I thought I had been cleaning the screen thoroughly, little bitsy
teeny weeny bits of grain and husk had accumulated in the screen. Had to hold
it up to the light to see it. Kinda made me think of my arteries, but that's
another subject. They would not be washed out, no matter the water pressure.
I resorted to banging the thing against the sink for about 10 minutes, every
bang causing stuff to fly out. After that, no problem next batch. Moral:
Clean that screen!
In the same issue, John B askes about continued bubbling of his IPA using
Wyeast 1056. I'm betting you're fermenting at below 65F. My basement is
about 62F this time of year, and I've had ales go for a month with this yeast.
They always turn out great.
Finally, I gotta ask....Scot, what are you doing with all that beer?
Craig Rode (aka Milwaukee Brewer)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 10:18:00 EST
From: "Bridges, Scott" <bridgess@mmsmtp.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Subject: It's Spring!!!
Just thought I pass along a little note to all of you who are tired of ole
man winter. I just noticed to my great surprise that my second-year
Cascades are growing like gangbusters already. They're about a foot high
and have several shoots already. Almost time to start pruning.
I live in South Carolina and we're having an early warm spring. I just hope
we don't get a late frost now!
Later,
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:24:30 -0800
From: "Kim Lux" <lux@cadvision.com>
Subject: Re: Liquid Transfer using Peristaltic Pumps
I too have been contemplating using a peristaltic (tubing) pump to move
wort and beer from place to place.
These pumps have a number of very good qualities including:
1) being easy to sanitize, having only to sanitize the tube that comprises
the pump;
2) being able to withstand high temperatures (as high as the tubing which
can be found for the pump, often > 212F);
3) the ability to move beer without foaming (tubing pumps are largely slow
running, constant displacement pumps)
4) the ability to provide enough pressure to force beer through a filter.
I would like to have two such pumps. One hand operated for moving beer
from carboy to carboy, maybe filtering while moving, and a motorized pump
to circulate boiling wort through a counterflow chiller to assist in its
sterilization and for circulating mash fluid through a heat exchanger for
temperature control.
I know of only one supplier of these pumps, that being a company named
Omega. (They have a series of catalogs for just about every industrial
process control widget you might ever need ...) I have not gotten a
catalog from them yet.
I seem to remember there being a hand operated tubing pump on the market
(used for emptying crankcases of oil ?) about 10 years ago. Does anyone
remember such a product or know if it is still available ?
I have been unable to find a local source of tubing pumps in my city.
I think one could purchase just the "head" for a tubing pump from Omega and
power it with a windshield wiper motor or another suitable AC powered
motor. This might be cheaper and more suitable than purchasing a pre
assembled industrial unit.
Kim Lux
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:33:07 -0500
From: TOM ELIASSEN <TELIASSEN@aot.state.vt.us>
Subject: Liquid Transfer using Peristaltic Pumps
Like many others, I tend to loose it when it comes to siphoning. In my
search
for techniques and/or equipment to help me perform this task I began to
think
about the use of a peristaltic pump to get my beer from one carboy to
another.
I used to use this type of pump when I was working in the environmental
consulting business. Sampling groundwater for volatile organic compounds
requires that the collection method not introduce air during sampling.
Seems we
have the same concern when we are trying to rack from one fermenter to
another.
The important features of this type of pump is that they are self-priming,
do
not introduce significant air to the liquid and liquid in the tube does not
touch anything in the process.
I began looking in the scientific catalogues for a cheap peristaltic pump
and so
far have come up with the VWRbrand Variable Flow Mini-Pump. This pump is
listed
at $119.00 which is still relatively expensive but considering the cost of
other
brewing equipment these days may be worth the cost.
Anyway, I am writing this message to find out if anybody else has first
hand
knowledge with using these pumps in home brewing.
- ----------------------------------------------------
Tom Eliassen
teliassen@aot.state.vt.us
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 11:14:56 -0500
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Subject: Fermentation,
Brewsters:
Alex Santic describes his anticS with his brew. Alan, I think the
fermentation is finished. You probably pitched the right amount and its
all over. You're just disturbing all that CO2 that is captured in your
beer.
Don't worry check it with Clinitest.
- -----------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2373, 03/13/97
*************************************
-------
