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HOMEBREW Digest #2365
HOMEBREW Digest #2365 Tue 04 March 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Stadt Brauerei Roth / Budvar (John Sullivan)
Cold Break Removal ("Reed")
Blow-off (Dave LaRocque)
re: Fermenting in 10gal Corny, Trub, Splitting CO2 ("C.D. Pritchard")
Lactic souring (Mike Marshburn)
Pellets vs Whole/Iodine vs Stainless ("Val J. Lipscomb")
kegging question (Jim Dickinson)
Temperature corrections for volume (Harlan Bauer)
Fermenting Berliner Weisse (Michael Newman)
barleywine (Bill Watt)
Irish Moss (Michael Newman)
Brewery Help Wanted (not brewing info) (hufkna)
Mashing Machine (Jim Martin)
stale (sour) beer for Porter (Hal Davis)
Stainless steel fermenters? Opinions (Tom Purdum)
"phil chill" and cold break (jazztone)
NHC rule change (Bill Giffin)
Mash pH (A. J. deLange)
Italy & Beer ("Nazzareno Todini")
Carboy safety (PVanslyke)
Re: CF chillers and cold break (Charles Burns)
Tender Beer? ("Kevin Imel")
AB specialty brewing ("Aaron Herrick")
Yeast, Yeast, Yeast! Questions ("Mark Rose")
Re: read this (american Cancer Society)HBD #2364 (March 03, 1997) (Rae Christopher J)
potent yeast...barley wine (Rae Christopher J)
keeping ferment warm with temperature controller (Randy Reed) ("Reed,Randy")
malto-dextrin (korz)
Wyeast 1968--London ESB: Multi-strain? (Harlan Bauer)
Evaluation Program (Bill Giffin)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 10:20:17 -0800
From: John Sullivan <sullvan@anet-stl.com>
Subject: Stadt Brauerei Roth / Budvar
I had an opportunity on a recent evening to try some beers that a friend
brought back from Europe. Though, I had an opportunity to try Budweiser
Budvar for the first time, we stayed primarily with the offerings of the
Stadt Brauerei Roth.
Regarding Budvar, it would be a shame if A-B's recent attempts to buy
into that enterprise ever came to fruition. I've tasted a lot of great
pilseners, but in my opinion this one puts Pilsener Urquell to shame.
This example of Budweiser was bought several months back and my host did
mention to me that it wasn't the freshest example. It was canned
however, so it was not subjected to any skunking. Fresh or not, this
beer was fantastic. The hop character of this brew is simply out of
this world. If anyone does not understand the influence of soft water on
making such a beer, Budvar will give you an idea. It is extremely hoppy,
but without any of the harsh overtones that are normally associated with
highly hopped beers. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the hop character of a
good Alt, California Common or IPA, but there is something about the
roundness of the hop character in Budvar that is hard to ignore. It is
unfortunate that you can't buy it here.
>From the Stadt Brauerei Roth, we sampled Hefeweizen, Dunkelweizen, Bock
and a fourth beer that we had some difficulty putting a finger on. The
weizens both had an aroma that is reminiscent of candy... actually those
orange, peanut shaped sponge type candies that we all tried as kids.
While it wasn't classic clove and banana, it certainly was an appropriate
and not unpleasant phenolic for these beers. Both beers had a sweet edge
along with some balancing tartness. The dunkelweizen had enough
chocolate character to be noticeable. These were both quite good, but
not quite what I would term classics. The bock would be classified in
the helles bock category. Rich, malty, sweet, it was obvious that
traditional decoction mashing was employed. This bock was truly
excellent and one of the best bocks I have ever had. Just so you don't
think that I got on here to be long winded about beers that I have had
recently, I have some questions for any of you well-traveled brewers out
here.
The fourth beer from Roth used the term Hel and Voll at different spots
on the label. Now "hel" means light in color and not necessarily the
same thing as helles. "Voll" means full. Sampling this beer, we noted
that it had a great hop aroma, moderate maltiness and balanced bitterness
(we estimated probably around 25 to 28 IBU). It had too much hoppiness
all the way around to be a helles but the maltiness and underlying
sweetness was OK for a helles. It had the right aroma for Pils, but not
enough bitterness and hop flavor. It was too sweet and malty to be a
dortmunder style export. Has anyone tried this beer? My friend seems
to think it defies categorization into the style parameters that we are
all accustomed to. As I mentioned, the labeling did not help us much
here. We checked out Jackson (both of the coffee table books... don't
have the pocket guide) and the brewery is not mentioned and the city
(Roth) only appears on a map. If anyone else has tried any of these
beers or has any information on the beer or the brewery, I would
appreciate you sharing it with me.
Thanks!
John Sullivan
St. Louis, MO
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:43:15 -0500
From: "Reed" <rreed@netusa1.net>
Subject: Cold Break Removal
George writes: (re: removal of break material)
: <snip> He does this by
:using a chore boy pad as a filter on his racking cane at the ENTRANCE
:to the chiller.
:While this would help remove hot break, it will not remove COLD
break,
:which is what I was talking about. Cold break is made up of proteins
:and lipids, etc. that are soluble at high temperatures, but crash out
:of solution upon rapid chilling. They cannot be filtered out of hot
:wort with a porous filter.
:
: Jim Cave's method of allowing the cold break material to settle does
: work well (I used to do this), but I never seem to have enough free
: carboys around to do this anymore.
Another issue is: how much cold break do you want to remove? If the brewer
knocks out via CF chiller, cold break will continue to form for many hours
(days).
An empirical point here... you can wait 4 hours or overnight after
chilling, rack off
cold break, and then pitch yeast, and you will *not* remove all of the
break
material. Cold break continues to form and it seems to continue through
respiration and the onset of fermentation (pH change, perhaps?) The $1.2M
question
(adjusted for inflation) is: do you want to remove any or most of the
*cold* break?
BTW, the $100,000 question is if I make an adequate contribution, can I
brew in
the basement of the Whitehouse and ferment in the Lincoln bedroom 8{)
There are some textbook reasons, e.g., (fusel alcohol formation, M & B
Science, p.599)
to remove cold break, but I think the most important issue is can you
detect an
incremental improvement for this incremental increase in labor, process
complexity.
There is also a substantial loss of wort (~10%), unless you are chilling
your wort to the
30s-40s F, prior to racking.
Most micro and pub brewers I have spoken with don't remove cold break prior
to active
fermentation. I have spoken to brewers from large breweries who *do*
remove cold break
prior to active fermentation.
For my time and money, it depends on style - if I am brewing Kolsch or
American
Stock ale and am pitching adequate yeast, I'll consider removing cold break
prior to
pitching yeast: if I am brewing Stout, IPA, or some other robust beer, it's
not worth it.
Cheers,
Rob Reed
Kokomo, IN
Home of the Bull and Stump, and Blessed Sacrament
(Hand pulled ICE DRY Gueuze LITE currently "on tap")
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 13:53:59 -0500
From: Dave LaRocque <davel@ids.net>
Subject: Blow-off
Hello folks-
I'm realtively new to the craft and have only done batches so far. The
most recent being an IPA. Due to inavailablility of other products, I had
to use hop pellets. I also used a 6 gal glass carboy instead of the ol'
HDPE pail. Now, 40 hours after pitching, there was no activity. At about
hour 48, the thing started going crazy. This was about bed-time for me.
Most of you experienced guys know what the next thing is going to be... I
unintentionally redecorated my linen closet. Air lock clogged up with hop
crap and blew. After waking the next morning, I cleaned and sanitized the
stopper and air lock and replaced. Bubbling resumed almost immediately.
Aside from the obvious exposure to oxygen for 8 hours or so, what other
risks am I taking with this batch. Is it salvagable? Email answers are
fine. <davel@ids.net>
- --Dave
- --Dave
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 14:08:07 +0700
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp@mail.chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: Fermenting in 10gal Corny, Trub, Splitting CO2
John Wilkinson wanted to know how to secure an airstone to small diameter
tubing for oxygenating his wort in fermenter kegs.
I like the HBer's equalivent to baling wire: copper wire. 20 AWG ought to
work well. Make 2-3 tight wraps then twist the ends together while tugging
'em with pliers.
John finds it difficult determining when o2 flow starts.
If one's oxygenating after racking all the wort to the keg, fitting a
standard airlock to the keg's gas-in fitting should work- bubbling thru the
air lock would almost directly relate to the rate you're injecting o2. If
the flow is difficult to throttle, a needle valve in the o2 line downstream
of the o2 regulator would afford finer flow control.
- -----------------------------
Scott Bridges posted:
>I just read about someone... who allows the trub to settle in a holding
>tank then transfers into the primary and pitches the yeast. Would there be
>anything wrong with pitching the yeast in the holding tank?
Maybe I'm too AR about it, but, I don't like the idea leaving an unpitched
wort sitting around awaiting the cold break to drop. I suspose if the yeast
is not very flocculent, pitching into the holding tank would work. I'd
make a big starter and pitch at high krausen.
>Would the yeast settle out with the trub?
I've pitched yeast while filling a carboy fermenter via a CF chiller (lots
of cold break!). One memorable batch formed yeast/trub globs which were up
to up to 3/8" in dia. As fermenting proceeded, the globs would float up
from the bottom of the carboy to the top, release co2 and fall back to the
bottom. It was quite a sight- kinda mesmerizing like a lava lamp. Did the
brew no harm insofar as I could tell even tho' it spent an extra couple of
days in the primary after high-ferment. Other batches with the same yeast
(WY 1056) and about the same amount of trub did not put on this sort of
show. Never deduced what the difference was.
For ales, I'm not convinced cold break does much if any harm to the brew.
Lots of hot break would cause me concern.
- -----------------------------
Speaking of trub removal, I finally got around to putting info on a wort
boiler racking manifold on the web. It's a slotted copper loop affair which
is used mainly with immersion cooled and whirlpooled worts and whole hops
instead of a racking cane/scrub pad. The URL is:
caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/boil_man.htm
- -----------------------------
Scott Rohlf wants to know how to split a single co2 line three ways.
The cheapest way is to buy some nylon or brass hose tees (the type with
barbs), vinyl tubing and clamp type valves which fit over the hose (they
seem to be widely availabe at HB shops). I used such an affair until the
current manifold evolved:
1/2" Cu Tubing =+==+==+=-- Inlet- 1/4" Cu tubing nipple
1/4" Cu nipples | | |
v v v Valves- brass needle type
1/4" Cu nipples | | |
All nipples are soldered to 1/4" holes in the the manifold. The brass
valves have compression ends and are similiar to those used for supplying
ice makers. They're intended for water service, but I've found them to be
leak-tight at 30 psig of co2. 3/16" ID x 5/16" OD vinyl tubing is used
throughout. The thing is fastened to the inside wall of the fridge with
screws via brackets soldered on the manifold. The cylinder/regulator is
outside the fridge. The business end of the regulator has a brass tee with
a 1/4" valve, nipple and vinyl tubing at one outlet for purging kegs &
secondarys, powering the counterpressure filler and such.
If fabricating such a manifold is too difficult, one could be assembled from
threaded tees, close nipples, and such.
c.d. pritchard cdp@chattanooga.net
http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 15:37:04 -0500
From: Mike Marshburn <mike48@erols.com>
Subject: Lactic souring
Brewers,
I remember reading about souring a beer with lactic acid, but I
can't seem to find a recipe with any amounts. I have 5 gals of wheat
beer I wish to sour this way, but I don't want to just plunge in without
some idea of what I'm getting in to. If any of you have done this I
would really like to hear from you as to the amount you used and what
were the results.
Thank You
mike48@erols.com
Virginia Beach, Va
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 14:54:02 -0600 (CST)
From: "Val J. Lipscomb" <valjay@NetXpress.com>
Subject: Pellets vs Whole/Iodine vs Stainless
In HBD #2363, Charley Burns posted his procedures for hop "spooge"
and trub removal, using an immersion chiller. He feels that to use
CF chilling one must change to whole hops. I respectfully disagree.
I have for some years used CF and pellets and a cut-off 1/2 bbl
keg as a kettle. The concave bottom allows all the hot break and
hop "spooge" (great word,Charley) to collect in a neat pile after
whirlpooling energetically. Using a racking cane or spigot assembly
with a nylon gauze covered Choreboy or other such gadget and pulling
the wort from the weld point where the concave bottom starts, you can
get crud free wort out of the kettle with no problems. As in your
current method, you will lose a couple of quarts of wort, but your
procedure to save still applies-strain,save,reboil and make it a
yeast starter.
In the same HBD, John Palmer wrote that "chlorine based sanitizers
and cleaners that the dairy industry uses are Inhibited (usually with
silicates) to help prevent corrosion".
OK, John, where can we find some of these cleaners and what names do
they go by??
Val Lipscomb-brewing in San Antonio
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 22:35:23 GMT
From: jdickins@baste.magibox.net (Jim Dickinson)
Subject: kegging question
hey all,
I am going to start kegging my beer and I am wondering where I should
get the equipment, mainly the CO2 regulator and the stainless steel
quick disconnects. Also, is there one type of keg perferred over another
(ball lock vs pin lock)?
I am also wondering how I properly "age" the beer. I know that when I
bottle and carbonate with corn sugar, the beer gets better with age (4-6
weeks). Will kegged and force carbonated beer also get better with age?=20
thanks in advance,
jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 17:17:36 -0600
From: blacksab@midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: Temperature corrections for volume
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but a search of the archives
yielded nothing--How do you correct for temperature in a volume of brewing
water? I have a sight level on my hot liquor tank that is calibrated for
60*F, but when I raise the temperature, the water gets "bigger". Anyone have
a formula or know of a table?
TIA,
Harlan
Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can
Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man.
<blacksab@midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:37:12 -0500
From: Michael Newman <MWNewman@compuserve.com>
Subject: Fermenting Berliner Weisse
Help please.
I am making my first batch of Berliner Weisse. I have decided to inoculate
the wort with Lactobacillus delbrukii initially for four days and at that
point pitch a german ale yeast.
The Ld is in the fermenter doing its stuff. I did not oxygenate the wort in
order to give the bacteria a good start. Should I oxygenate at the time of
pitching the yeast? Or should I not oxygenate and let it battle it out with
the bacteria.
All help gratefully received!
Michael
Michael Newman
MWNewman@compuserve.Com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MWNewman
Beer isn't the only thing in life; it's much more important than that.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 97 19:53:55 PST
From: Bill Watt <wattbrew@buffnet.net>
Subject: barleywine
I am about to make my first barleywine (maybe next weekend) and the
following question needs an answer. If I secondary it for 6 months, how
the heck will it carbonate after I bottle it? Will there still be enough
yeast in suspension or am I missing the whole point? Is it supposed to
condition for 6 months after it is bottled? And if so, how long is the
primary and secondary ferment befor bottling? Any clear answers would be
greatly appreciated. Private e-mail or public scorn at my lack of
understanding will both be acceptable.
Bill Watt - Brewing beer in Lancaster, NY
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 20:14:19 -0500
From: Michael Newman <MWNewman@compuserve.com>
Subject: Irish Moss
A couple of people asked about the method of using Irish Moss in the last
HBD. I have discussed this on my web page (address below).
I currently use 10g per 23 litres (6 US gall) but 5g seems to work as well
(I'm experimenting). Commercial use is at the rate of 1-2g per 23 litres
and I will try these rates out in my next few batches.
I most important step in using flake IM (and probably powdered) is
re-hydration. I soak my IM overnight in boiling water (150ml to 10g) and
mix it with a hand blender just before use. This results in a thick, brown,
foul smelling paste with some flakes left intact. Add this to the last 15
minutes of the boil.
One advantage of the higher rate I am using at the moment is the greater
amount of fluffy IM left at the bottom of the copper to act as a filter
bed, augmenting any whole hops used.
I would appreciate any feedback about your Im experiences so that I can
update my web page.
Michael Newman
Warminster UK
MWNewman@compuserve.Com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MWNewman
Beer isn't the only thing in life; it's much more important than that.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 20:39:44 -0500
From: hufkna@mich.com
Subject: Brewery Help Wanted (not brewing info)
Sorry for the non brewing information post,
but thought interested folks might be
lurking...
BrewPub opening in Port Huron, Michigan.
Hiring brewery staff. Send
resume and/or flames to:
Quay Street Brewing Company,
330 Quay Street
Port Huron, MI 48060.
(810) 982-4100 (voice)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 19:29:41 -0800
From: Jim Martin <fermntap@concentric.net>
Subject: Mashing Machine
I've always been a gadget guy, but my wifey say's I've gone too far
with my latest invention.. I've converted her clothes washer into a
RIMS system. It's now a "mashing machine". The agitation cycle works
great for stiring the grains, the spin cycle will continually
recycle until I switch the hose over to the boil kettle. Just spray
sparge water for a complete rinse and WOW! Talk about extraction rate.
And best of all is it's self cleaning !
For you new brewers, don't try this at home!
Jim Martin, still alive and brewin.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 21:39:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Hal Davis <davis@planolaw.com>
Subject: stale (sour) beer for Porter
Thanks to all of you who wrote to me about my questions about mixing stale
and mild beer to make porter the old-fashioned way. I waited a little longer
to summarize, because I expected more responses than I got.
First, I asked if you mixed bitter with mild, what would you call it (since
stale and mild was called porter). Mark Peacock reports "A friend of mine
from Lancashire used
to mix draught bitters with bottled brown ale to make (naturally) a
"brown and bitters". The bottled brown ale was low in alcohol -- I seem
to remember the label saying about 2.5%, though I'm reaching for some
very dusty neurons. His rationale for the mixture was: 1) Lower alcohol
content meant a longer and more social evening at the pub (he was a very
slight man); 2) He liked the taste." and " mild ale is too gassy, and
bitter ale is too bitter, so a common request in a pub in England is
``mild and bitter'' (that, btw, is what it's called there). I can also
tell you that, from the mild and bitter that I've had, it's a treat.
Yum...."
INNOCULATIOON TO MAKE STALE (SOUR) BEER
Rex Clingan said that he let three batches sour by exposing them to the air.
He wound up with one he liked, and he's sending me a bottle to use like a
sourdough starter. I still haven't figured out whether to dump in the sour
beer at the same time I pitch yeast or after it's undergone some primary
fermentation. He also reports that the souring bug is rather difficult to
sanitize out of his kegs, and thinks it has taken up residence in the rubber
parts. He also says, "my experience is that the souring continues with time,
so that your blend will probably change with time to get the proper profile.
and aging is
fairly important, old sour beer is really interesting."
I also asked whether I should use the same recipe for my stale and my brown,
and whether a good mild for mixing with bitter would be Cheeks to the Wind
Mild from Papazian's New Joy. Dennis Waltman points out that the Cheeks mild
might be considered a brown, even though it uses light extract, because it
has a half pound of black patent which changes the color. I'm not sure: I
think there's more to being a brown than the color. Also, the historical
article indicated that the browns were smoked.
Hal Davis
the Safety Brewery, Plano, Texas
member North Texas Home Brewers Assn
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 20:29:07 -0800
From: Tom Purdum <tpurdum@gregg-jones.com>
Subject: Stainless steel fermenters? Opinions
Hello all,
I'm fairly new to homebrewing and I thought that i read somewhere that a
homebrewer could adapt stainless steel soda kegs (like whats used in
fountain pop machines) for fermenting. I have a few laying around my
house and was thinking about trying it out. Any hints, tips,
suggestions, opinions, etc.
Thanks is advance,
Tom Purdum
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 04:14:52 EST
From: jazztone@juno.com
Subject: "phil chill" and cold break
Hello all, I just had 2 simple questions pertaining to brewing. I just
recently put together the Phil chill counterflow chiller... It seems to
work great, but here is my problem:
As soon as I boil my wort, I pour it through a strainer (I use whole
hops) into a 5 gallon bucket w/ a spigot. From the spigot, I have a
plastic tube that connects to the inlet of the counterflow chiller. The
outlet of the chiller connects to another plastic hose which dumps the
nice "cold" beer into the primary fermenter. The problem is the hose
from the spigot of the bucket heats up and gets real soft from the heat,
and I can only use it for 1 or 2 chill "sessions". Is there another way
to transfer the hot wort into the chiller safely without having to start
a siphon and use a chore-boy....what is the BEST method?
And secondly, after the cold wort went into the fermentor, I got a huge
layer of settling stuff that was very specifically a layer.. I'm assuming
it's cold break, and alot of it stuck to the sides of the fermentor, and
most of it settled. Now the fermentation is about done... My question
is, is this bad, can I still rack the beer into my keg without the flavor
being affected, and how would I avoid it in the future (if it is in fact,
bad.) If it means anything, I put in I tablespoon of Irish moss in with
the hops at the beginning of the boil..(What will cold break do to the
beer?)
The last question is: I have been using liquid Wyeast with great results
making starters, but just did a batch of wheat beer that calls for dry
yeast. Is rehydration necessary for DRY yeast, and what is the best
method for pitching it? Some books say shake it into the wort, others say
don't....thanks very much for any responses.....
-chris brown
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 07:43:31 -0600
From: Bill Giffin <billgiffin@maine.com>
Subject: NHC rule change
Good morning all,
I hope that all of you who are planning to enter the AHA NHC
*VERY CAREFULLY READ THE RULES*!!
Rule E in Part III - The Fine Print has been changed from preivous
years and the following was added to this rule. "The recipe becomes
the intellectual property of the AHA."
Isn't that a nice simple little addition to the rule that will take away all
of you rights to the recipe because creating a recipe is an intellectual
process. Under this rule you will lose the name of the beer. I would
find giving up the name of one of my beers something I wouldn't want
to do as I name most of the beers with my tiny brewery's name,
Broken Oar Brewery, or I have used the same name for a beer brewed
using the same recipe for a number of years and I wouldn't want to part
with any of these names.
The 1997 NHC will be the qualifier for the Boston Beer "Long Shot"
homebrew search. If your recipe is the intellectual property of the
AHA what will you have to give to the Boston Beer Company? Your
brewing expertise? It appears to me that that is about all you will have
to give the Boston Beer Company.
If you plan to write an article for any publication you would have to
have the permission of the AHA before you could even use you own
recipe as an example.
If I were the Boston Beer Company I wouldn't want to be any part of
the AHA NHC, though maybe this rule was put in for their benefit and
the homebrewer doesn't have a chance.
I won't enter the NHC because I honestly feel that the competition is
not well run and the cost of entering the competition is excessive. Now
to go to the second round you have to give up all your rights to your
recipe, this rule change in and of itself would be enough to prevent me
from entering the NHC.
Those of you who would like to send a message to the AOB/AHA the
NHC is the place to do it. Zymurgy depends on having recipes in the
magazine to sell the magazine. If no one enters their will be no new
recipes for the AHA to exploit. SAVE YOUR MONEY enter local
and regional competitions to have you beer evaluated. Local
competition may not give you national recognition but they often give
much better prizes.
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:27:26 -0500
From: ajdel@mindspring.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Mash pH
Rick Pauly used 6 (yep 6) tsp of gypsum in 15 gal of mash water and doughed
in at a pH of 5.2 and then added another 3 (topping off to 15 gal again)
for sparge. At the end of sparge he measured pH 4.6. He reports soft water
and wonders what is going on. I don't have enough info to say with
certainty but I would guess that the grist contained a good proportion of
high kilned malts. pH 5.2 at dough in is too low, especially if this was
measured at room temperature as at mash temperature it's going to be a
couple of tenths lower still. Rather than adding gypsum which releases H+,
the proper move for a grist like this would be to add chalk (carbonate)
which will raise the pH by neutralizing some of the acidity in the malts.
Around 5.4 - 5.6 would be a good target for dough in so that this can drift
down a couple of tenths as the temperature is raised to conversion
temperature and still be in the desired range.
There is no reason to add gypsum to sparge water. It does not lower the pH
of water by itself (in fact it usually increases it slightly).
We assume that the pH meters were properly calibrated before use and that
they have ATC or that manual compensation for temperature was done?
For further information on pH in brewing and the use of pH meters see the
last 2 issues of BT (what the hell, if Ken Scwartz isn't ashamed of blatant
personal plugs, neither am I!)
A. J. deLange
- Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.
Please Note New e-mail Address
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:12:43 -0500
From: "Nazzareno Todini" <natzos@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Italy & Beer
Hi Kenny. My name is Nazzareno and I am Italian. Thanks for bringing up the
"Italy & beer" issue, it's always interesting to me to know what people
think about my country, especially regarding beer.
Far from being an authority in this field I nonetheless would like to try
to give an explanation to the "strong beer phenomenon" in Italian bars.
Beer drinking in Italy is strongly related to the season. In the general
opinion this beverage is thought to be nothing more than a thirst quencher
and Italian large breweries produce almost exclusively light lagers to
follow the trend (or may be they set the trend?). Beers like Peroni or, to
a smaller extent Moretti, are a delightful refreshment for the Italian
working class during the painfully hot summer days and is not unusual to
see construction workers or anybody else who has to work outdoor enjoying a
"canadese" , slang word used to describe the specific kind of bottle used
from Peroni to package their 22 oz.. beers, along with a "king size"
sandwich for lunch.
So beer seems to be considered a beverage more apt to be a snack wetter
than the more alcoholic wine, especially in work days (Sundays are a
different issue).
When people go out on the weekend or at night after work, alcohol is not a
problem anymore (au contraire!) and drinking foreign beers in a downtown
bar is much more "sophisticated" than having a Nastro Azzurro (Peroni
Export lager); moreover, being imprinted from childhood to the sensation
given by wine, when drinking beer, Italians seem to look for the " kick "
and go for strong , wine-like beers (Belgian are among the favorites).
Finally, don't forget that visiting a country normally means just take a
quick look at monuments in the cities' historical centers. The bars
around touristic sites are the same usually visited at night from the
"suburban city tribes". The same people who during the day swallow a quick
lunch with the aid of a cold lager, make the barkeeper stock the cooler
with Ceres and Adelscott, not to forget Biere du Demon, ready for the night
shift........
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:50:29 -0500 (EST)
From: PVanslyke@aol.com
Subject: Carboy safety
Good morning
I have read postings many times from brewers dropping, nearly dropping, etc.
carboys. I consider myself lucky in that I have not broken one yet (knock
wood). Especially when washing with slippery stuff (technical term).
I don't know where I originally read this tip, but I know it worksx
Find a plastic milk crate and place the carboy in it. These crates will
accomodate 5 and 6.5 gal 'boys. Use the crate to move empty and full carboys.
Later
Paul VanSlyke >> brewing and relaxing in Deposit, NY
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 97 08:14 PST
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Re: CF chillers and cold break
At 10:28 AM 3/2/97 -0500, Al Stevens wrote:
>A point of clarification regarding cold break in CF chillers.
>The wort is cooled very rapidly in the chiller coils, and THIS
>is where the break material is formed. If the chiller drains
>directly into the fermenter, the break goes with it, and no amount
>of filtering, whirlpooling, pellets vs whole, etc at the
>INPUT, is going to change this.
>
>As a data point, I have never noticed any problem with
>fermenting on the cold break (for ales anyway),
>but I used to have problems before I used a chiller
>because of the long time to cool the wort.
>
Of course, since the chilling occurs IN the chiller, the cold break rolls
right out into whatever container receives the outflow. All I had to do was
picture it in my head and it became obvious. And you're right, I've had as
much as 2" of coldbreak on the bottom of my primary and made excellent beers
that way.
I think I'll stick with my immersion chiller. I cooled 6.5 gallons yesterday
from boiling to 75F in just under 12 minutes. That's fast enough for me.
Later,
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:53:06 -8
From: "Kevin Imel" <kimel@moscow.com>
Subject: Tender Beer?
Hi Gang!
Here is a question for all those that like to ponder such things as
etiology and the beer industry:
About a month ago I was visiting a shopping mall when I was set upon
by a young lad with a clipboard that wanted to ask me a few
questions. Since the topic was "Beer" I went ahead and answered his
questions. Well, I fit the profile ("Beer Drinker") and was asked if
I would like to participate in a longer survey about "Beer" for which
I would be paid $8 that would take about 50 minutes. Well, the
chance that I might actually leave a mall with more money than I went
in with was compelling but I also had the misconception that maybe I
would get to taste some actual beer....WRONG!
Anyway, after answering several questions and after establishing
that my three favorite "brands" were 1) My homebrew Brown Ale, 2) My
homebrew "Road Tar Porter", 3) My homebrew Raspberry Weizen [which
really blew the rest of the survey I am sure] I was confronted with
a list of brand names that included "micros" like Sam Adams, Pete's
and Sierra Nevada as well as the big boys (AB, Coors, Miller, etc.)
and the imports: Heinekin and Corona.
I was asked to assign values to these brands (a list of about 40
total) for various qualities such as Bitterness, Taste, Drinkability,
and...get this...."Tenderness". What the heck is "Tenderness" in
terms of beer? Now I have read stuff for the BJCP and I sure can't
recall ever hearing the term "Tender" associated with beer.
Oh, and the $8 profit from the mall visit? Well, the S.O. went
shopping while I was earning my $8 and spent $650 on a new Futon. Go
figure.
Cheers!
Kevin
___________________________
Kevin Imel - KF7CN DN16lv
kimel@moscow.com
Palouse, Washington USA
"The only way to truely fail is to fail to try"
For a copy of my pgp public key send message with subject "SEND PGP KEY"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:12:54 -0000
From: "Aaron Herrick" <chemstat@phoenix.net>
Subject: AB specialty brewing
C&S Peterson writes:
>I recently was in San Diego and ordered what I thought was a local
microbrew
>called American Hop Ale. For those that haven't tried it yet, I thought
it
>was an excellent example of the West Coast Amber style. Its reportedly
got 40
>IBUs, which leads to a nice strong but smooth bitterness, and of course a
>strong hop flavor. It had a slight fruitiness, and good malt background.
I
>had two in a row; a rarity for my fickle beer heart.
I almost decided not to post this to HBD, because it is pure and simple
heresy among homebrewers to say that AB makes a good product.
But sometimes they do make a good product.
The AB approach to microbrews it to divide the country into several
regions, target the most popular micro for that region, and pull it's
customers back. On the West Coast, that would be SNPA. Here in Texas,
they have targeted Shiner Bock, to create ZeigenBock.
What are the other offerings from AB specialty brew?
Aaron Herrick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 16:20:45 -0500
From: "Mark Rose" <mrose@visi.net>
Subject: Yeast, Yeast, Yeast! Questions
Two questions for you wizards out there:
1. I have an all-grain IPA in the secondary in its third week of
fermentation. It started at an OG of 1.065, and is now down to 1.020 and
has been there for a week. I inadvertently mashed at 155, not the 152 that
I had planned for. I think the higher than expected finishing gravity is
due to the higher mash temperature, but I am not sure. I plan to bottle it
this weekend. Can I use Yeast Energizer now to drop the gravity any
further (just drop it in the secondary)? The yeast is Wyeast 1056,
American Ale.
2. I would like to begin my own yeast bank of sorts. I've read that you
can capture the slurry in a 12oz bottle from the primary and keep it is the
fridge for up to a year, and then use part of the slurry to make starters
later. Is this a good method? Does it work?
2a. As opposed to this method, what about those yeast kits from Brewer's
Resource or the Yeast Company web page. Which is better? Is this a better
method than the one described in #2? How much extra time and trouble is
this yeast harvesting/bank business compared to the benefits?
Please email me direct, as well as to the list, if you can. Thanks a lot, I
appreciate your advice!
=========================================
Mark Rose
Langley AFB, VA
=========================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:51:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7@qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: Re: read this (american Cancer Society)HBD #2364 (March 03, 1997)
the american cancer society thing is a hoax. enough said.
___________________________________________________________
This is Chris' signature:
C____ R__
&%
His home page is at http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjr7/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:08:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Rae Christopher J <3cjr7@qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: potent yeast...barley wine
this is a digest of all the helpful private e-mail i have gotten re: my
question about what yeast to use for a 10% beer:
1. do not use wyeast 1388, belgian strong...
2. try brewtek cl-170
3. try wyeast 3787
4. add more yeast at bottling time
5. brew one batch of normal beer with the chosen yeast. save the
yeast from the secondary fermenter at bottling time and immediately use
that yeast in the primary fermenter of the high sg beer.
having done some further reading, i have a couple questions re:barley
wine (which, i am told, is what i am in fact making):
1. does it end up carbonated?
2. can i make it from extract? both of the recipes i have are for
all-grain. not that i am adverse to trying an all-grain, but... well, i'm
lazy, and supplies are limited in the little city of k'town... thus i'd
prefer an extract version. if anyone has a recipe, i'd love to get it.
private e-mail preferred, kudos will be given with the digested
form.
thanks to all for the help!!
meisters were:
r gardner
a stevens
e miner
m preston
someone else who's name has vanished
___________________________________________________________
This is Chris' signature:
C____ R__
&%
His home page is at http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3cjr7/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:15:00 -0500
From: "Reed,Randy" <rreed@foxboro.com>
Subject: keeping ferment warm with temperature controller (Randy Reed)
Has anyone got a recommendation of how to keep a fermentation fridge
with a temperature controller WARM enough. Let's say my basement is 55
degrees and I want to primary ferment at 65. I can set the controller to
65, but, what are some tried and true ways to add a little warmth to the
inside of the fridge without cycling on the fridge too often to cool it
off. Covered in foil light bulbs? Electric blankets?
Controller is a Honeywell (from Willliams Brewing) type controller. It
does not have a heating circuit, only cooling.
Please post answers privately. I will post a summary to the Digest.
- Randy
=====================================================
If tuns are outlawed, only outlaws will have tuns...
====================================================
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:35:01 -0600 (CST)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: malto-dextrin
Allen writes:
Going to try using some malto-dextrine for the first time in a batch
tomorow! When do I add this? Is there a way to tell how much to add?
While this is far too late to help Allen, it is probably of general
interest. I've done a few tests on pure malto-dextrin and found that
*the brand I have* is about 16% fermentable. I got it from L.D.Carlson.
Now, there are many different versions of malto-dextrine made and they
all have very different percentages of fermentables/unfermentables.
Ideally, you would like to get a DE number (a dextrose equivalent).
The Practical Brewer (published by the MBAA) has a listing (very big...
too big to post even without questions of copyright) of the makeup
of various DE products.
In my experiments I also found that the brand of malto-dextrin I used
dissolved compleatly, i.e. did not give a starch haze, and gave about
40 points/lb/gal (if I recall correctly). This means that if you add
a pound to 5 gallons of wort, it will raise the OG by 40/5 or 8 points
(a.k.a. 0.008 SG). Since it is 16% fermentable, it will raise the
FG about 6.72 points or roughly 0.007.
Other brands of malto-dextrin or dextrin powder may be slightly different.
How to use it: Since it's fermentable, you should probably add it into
the boil, but since you need not do anything to it except sanitize, I
would add it in the last 15 minutes of the boil. You could, conceivably
prime with it, but I recommend that you experiment with the exact brand
and lot you have to be certain of the fermentability. A small change
could result in a big carbonation difference. Also, I'm not sure about
what "slowly fermenting" sugars there may be in the M-D I used because
I simply let it ferment three weeks at 63F with an ale yeast and measured
the FG. It may be more fermentable with lager yeast because lager yeasts
can eat melibiose and ale yeasts can't. I don't know how much of the
M-D I had was galactose (a fructose + a melibiose).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 12:41:12 -0600
From: blacksab@midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: Wyeast 1968--London ESB: Multi-strain?
Does anyone know with any certainty whether Wyeast 1968 is a multi-strain
yeast? I had a problem with a recent batch that absolutely refuses to clear
(it's DEFINITELY yeast and not a protein haze).
Here's what I'm thinking (aka WAG): At least one strain is non-flocculant
but attenuative, and at least one strain VERY flocculant but less
attenuative. The non-flocculant strain(s) piggy-back on the flocculant
strain(s) and drop out of suspension. BTW, this was a repitching from the
suspended yeast from a previous batch, ie, neither from the top of the
ferment nor from the bottom of the fermenter. This has led me to suspect
that I accidently "selected" the non-flocculant strain(s).
Comments? Al? Dan?
TIA,
Harlan
Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can
Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man.
<blacksab@midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 14:01:51 -0600
From: Bill Giffin <billgiffin@maine.com>
Subject: Evaluation Program
Good afternoon all,
First a very short history lesson. A little over two years ago the AHA
pulled its support from the BJCP. The reason given was that the AHA
wanted to start a beer evaluation program, judging was far to harsh a
word. Now after two years the evaluation program may hit the light of
day.
In the Beer Enthusiast the President of the AHA, wonder who that is
now, stated " We'll be launching our Beer Evaluation Program". The
President goes on to state that the prices will be reasonable, is this
another way of saying too much, or we need another profit center?
Further on and I quote "....and the study material will be
unintimidating. Beer is fun and we want to keep it that way".
Unintimidating material is that material for those of us who have
difficulty comprehending a simple sentence. In the group of
homebrewers I hang out with , most have degrees from some of the
best colleges and university in the world, I say world because we have
at least one bloke from the UK. Also a bunch of them can be referred
to as Doctor this or that. Why couldn't this beer evaluation program be
done as a regular column in Zymurgy?
Lets talk about beer evaluation and how to do it. First open the bottle
or draw a pint. Second taste the beer. Third if you like it, its good
beer or if you didn't its not. If you want to get more involved then that
I suggest that you get yourself involved with the BJCP and participate
in their judging program as a steward or as a judge, bet you that it will
cost a good deal less then the AHA program.
Bill
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2365, 03/04/97
*************************************
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