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HOMEBREW Digest #2339
HOMEBREW Digest #2339 Fri 07 February 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
RE: Bulk Malt Extract (Art McGregor)
Re: storing hops (Alan Edwards)
Wits/Recipe Formulation and recovery (Jim Busch)
barleywine (Jeff Sturman)
Bone to pick (John Goldthwaite)
mashing in a 3 tier converted keg system (Tom Neary)
info on Scottish Ale Yeast? ("Bryan L. Gros")
No Carbonation Revisited (Daniel Louis Lanicek)
False bottom for SS keg mash tun (Jim Elden)
1056 and big beer ("Bryan L. Gros")
More BarleyWine Musings (Jim Busch)
Re: IPA Review ("P. Ullrich")
carbonating soda's and recipies ideas? (Volt Computer)" <a-branro@MICROSOFT.com>
(U)Wit Brewin (UTC -05:00)" <usfmccxf@ibmmail.com>
Yeast Starter for lagers (Raymond Louvier)
THe malting of amaranth ("Edward J. Steinkamp")
Chuck's decoction from hell (Dane Mosher)
Re: Wyeast 1056 and High O.G. (Alex Santic)
Wyeast 1056/high gravity worts/barleywine (Dean Larson)
British Malt (Mike Marshburn)
Re: spigot for Aluminum brewpot (Jeff Renner)
Flavor descriptions (Ian Smith)
Ferm-Cap/B-Wine Yeast/O2 (Rob Moline)
Candi Sugar? (Volt Computer)" <a-branro@MICROSOFT.com>
Brew-Ski '97 (Homebrewing Competition) (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist)
Another Gourmet Brewer recommendation (Alex Santic)
(Fwd) (Fwd) Re: Homebrew Digest Request (February 03, 1997) ("John Robinson")
canning wort (Hal Davis)
Wyeast 1056 and High O.G. (murphrey)
Kitchen water filter (murphrey)
Homebrew Wind (Rich Hampo)
South Shore Brew Club Homebrew Competition (Esbitter)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 12:28:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Art McGregor <mcgregap@acq.osd.mil>
Subject: RE: Bulk Malt Extract
Hi Everyone,
Richard Cuff (Lutherville, MD) asked in HBD 2336 about Bulk Malt extract. Last
month I asked a similar question and received some responses. I've been too
busy to summarize for the HBD, but better late than never. Thanks again to
Randy Lee, Steve Gravel, Rick Taft, and Bob Haines for their responses.
Also, while I was at the beer store (a large beverage discount
store) the employee showed me two bulk LME containers that came back. They had
both been used for one 5 gal batch each and recapped (supposedly kept at room
temp), and had puffed up, presumably from wild yeast. I decided to buy a
container (3 gallons or 33 lbs) of bulk liquid malt extract anyways (full
refund offered if it got infected). I haven't used yet, maybe this weekend,
but I have a few cans of LME lying around to use first. May try without vodka
first, then try if it 'puffs up.' Sorry for the bandwidth.
Hoppy brewing, :^)
Art McGregor (Northern Virginia)
day: mcgregap@acq.osd.mil night: apmcgregor@nmaa.org
<<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>>
> LME should be stored in a coolish place out of sunlight. Constant
temperatures are best but what it is, within reason, isn't all that important.
The product won't spoil in it's normal state due to the low water content
(that's why honey in your cupboard doesn't go bad). The problem is condensation
on the lid or top of the container dripping back onto the surface of the LME
where the *local* water content gets up far enough to support spoilage
organisms. Briess recommends turning your containers upside down every so often
to mix this water back in ... Randy Lee
<<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>>
> I have a 33lb LME container that I used when I was doing extract batches
(switched to all-grain) and I keep it at room temp (actually garage temp). I
add a double shot of vodka and swirl it around the top of the extract after
every use. I never had any problem with unwanted growth on the extract. I was
told that even if something started growing on it you could still boil the
extract and that would kill off any of the nasty stuff. Steve Gravel
<<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>>
> I bought bulk malt syrup twice so far. Both times I kept it in the original
container. The first time, the stuff lasted ages ... I kept it in a shed
outside my townhouse. One day in late Spring, I noticed that the container had
swelled and was bulging on all sides and the bottom. I loosened the cap to let
off the pressure and closed it again. Then I called my homebrew supplier. He
said that some bacteria or wild yeast had gotten in, but not to worry. They
would be killed when I boiled the wort. He also said to keep the container
cool, so I put it in the fridge ... This turned out to be a major PIA. It took
up an inordinate amount of room.
> A few months ago, I let my supplier talk me into buying bulk again. (It
really does save a lot of money!) This time, it was Fall, so I could keep the
jug in my shed and not have to refrigerate it. I also increased my brewing
frequency so that I used it up very quickly.
> You are right that the syrup is very thick when cold. If I remembered soon
enough, I would usually let the jug sit out for a few hours before brewing, and
I would soak it in hot water for a few minutes just before pouring.
I recommend that you keep the syrup in its original container. It's much more
likely to get infected if you transfer it to other jars. Also, sanitize
everything! While pouring, cover the cap with a paper towel soaked in
sanitizer. Limit the time the cover is off the jug. Keep refrigerated when
not in use. -Rick Taft
<<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>> <<>>
> I just bought one of these containers myself, and thus far have used it for
one batch. ... I think the stuff is so high in sugar that it can be treated
like coke syrup or honey ... no cooling is needed because it'll be
self-preserving due to osmotic action.
> I thought measuring it was going to be a hassle ... After a bit of math, I
got something like 1 fluid oz. = 1.375 ounces (weight) ... so the 6.6 lbs my
recipe called for was 76.8 fluid ounces or some such thing. Being a round
numbers kind of guy, I called it 80 ounces, got out a big pitcher and a
measuring cup, 80 ounces of water into the pitcher, mark the spot, dump the
water and "pour" the extract. "Pour" being as close to what you do as "liquid"
is to describing the product ... takes a while. Right now I'd highly recommend
the bulk LME, since it lets you cut your per-batch cost roughly in half. ...
Bob Haines
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:06:34 -0800
From: Alan Edwards <ale@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: storing hops
In HBD #2336, ad339@freenet.unbc.edu, Edwin Thompson writes:
> I've been thinking of growing my own hops but I'm unsure how well they
> keep. I was once in a brewpub where the brewer keep the whole hops in
> a freezer, does anyone know if prolonged freezing affects the hop oil?
It preserves the hops by slowing down all chemical reactions, mainly
oxidization.
> Is there a better way of storing themm? Any information would be helpful.
I've kept homegrown hops in the freezer for over three years and they
smell as good as the day I crammed them into the jar. That's the key:
keep out as much oxygen as possible. Forget about prolonged storage in
baggies, or even sealed plastic.
I was fortunate enough (in two ways ;-) to have a surplus of baby-food
jars when I last grew my own. I jammed as much as possible into the jars
which left very little room air. I've kept them in the freezer (most of
the time) for over three years and I still use them! (I haven't homegrown
in a while.)
Only one of the jars went bad. And it was obvious when it did--the hops
visibly turned brownish, compared to the other jars, and smelled cheesy.
I'm going to get back into hop-growing this year...can't wait.
Have fun,
-Alan
Alan Edwards (ale@cisco.com) H3CO.____ O CH3
Systems Administrator / / \ || |
Chile-Head / Homebrewer HO-< >-C-N-C-(CH2)4-C=C-C-CH3
Cisco Systems Inc 408-526-5283 \____/ H2 H H H H Capsaicin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:27:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Wits/Recipe Formulation and recovery
In digest #2336...
Kit Anderson notes using flaked wheat for a witbier:
<I'm sure this is a good beer but it will be truer to style substituting
<flaked wheat for the malted wheat.
Why stop there? Use raw wheat for real authenticity.
Bill Giffin writes on recipe formulation:
<Recipe formulation requires that you know what the underlying malt
<taste like. One way of finding out what these flavors are is to brew a
<"single malt" beer. Try brewing a beer with only pale ale malt, pilsner
<malt, Vienna malt or Munich malt to an OG of 1.050 hop it at about 35
<ibu's and you will wind up having a much better idea of what the
<contribution of the base malt is to the beer.
Actually recipe formulation requires a lot more than an understanding
of malt, and specific manufacturing methods of individual types of malt.
I just wrote 2,400 words on the topic for an upcoming issue of
Brewing_Techniques and I didnt even scratch the surface of the topic.
(At this point Ill plug Ray Daniels book on Designing Great Beers, as
it is a very good text that covers a good deal of history along with
good coverage of the brewers toolset of ingredients and most importantly
he provides the information required to the reader to form their own
opinions and recipes, he does not just give you one of his recipes.
Look for a book review of this in an upcoming issue of All About Beer)
The other point Ill make to Bill and all is that at 35 IBUs one is
not emphasising malt and it is much easier to determine malt
characteristics by keeping the actual IBUs between 20-25. Maybe
Bill thinks he brews to 35 IBUs based on some formulae, I dunno as
IBUs can only be measured.
<If you want to brew an English style beer use English ingredients, or
<German ingredients for a German style beer and so on.
As much as I tend to agree with this concept I do know of a very
well made (IMHO) IPA that employs German malts.
<Keeping good records of what you have done can be helpful to
<improving you recipes. If you use a method to calculate bitterness
<don't bother changing it just because its results didn't provide the
<bittering you thought it should just note if the beer need more or less
<bittering and adjust the next batch. The last batch is done, either you
<drink it, dump it or give it to unsuspecting friends, but you can't easily
<change that batch.
The first part I agree with completely. As for the second, this is
a fine time to consider blending beers from different batches.
Prost!
Jim Busch
Coming February 14: St. Victorious Doppelbock!!
See Victory Brewing at:
http://www.victorybeer.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:34:33 -0700
From: brewshop@coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
Subject: barleywine
On the subject of yeast choice for barleywines: I just kegged a barleywine
last night. The yeast was WYeast 1728 Scottish Ale. O.G. 1.104, F.G.
1.024. Appatent Attenuation 76.9%! The WYeast literature puts apparent
attenuation at 69% to 73%. Mash was 155 F for 2 hours then 172 F for 20
minutes.
I took 1 cup of sediment from the primary of a scottish export and pitched
it into a 48 oz. starter (gravity 1.070) three days prior to brewing the
barleywine. That was too soon as the starter totally fermented out in
about 48 hours. On brew day the starter was still, but there was a good
1/2" of yeast sediment on the bottom of the starter. Fermentation was
well underway 6 hours later and the fermentation appeared finished after 9
days at 64 F to 68 F. The carboy then spent 7 days at 38 F prior to
kegging. The hydrometer sample tasted quite malty, very thick bodied,
slightly spicy and the alcohol warmed my face :) The beer did have a
noticeable banana flavor and aroma which surprised me. Does this yeast
produce isoamyl acetate in all beers, or just high gravity beers? The
scottish export displays no sign of bananas. I have also heard this yeast
can produce a faint smoky character, which is not apparent in this
barleywine, and would have been masked in the scottish export by the 6 oz.
of peat smoked malt I added to the mash. The WYeast literature says this
yeast is well suited for all high-gravity beers.
jeff
casper, wy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:33:20 -0500 (EST)
From: ir358@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John Goldthwaite)
Subject: Bone to pick
Howdy all,
I'm a newcomer here, but lately have been having fun corresponding
with fellow beer addicts. I don't want to rock the boat to much,
but I am getting increasingly frustrated when I try to email some
helpful advice and get my messages sent back by the Daemon. If
you want help and make a post, please make sure you have a current
account and that it's functioning! This has happened at least 6
times in the last week or so.
On a brewing note: I just recently polished off my new concoction,
The Whager. Yes, a wheat beer with the 2112 California Lager.
The spousal unit loved it. It's pretty hoppy and will be a really
good summer brew. If you're interested email me for the recipe.
Has anyone else tried this, or did I create a new style?
Let the good times roll. John.
- --
"If my words did glow, with the gold of sunshine...(Garcia/Hunter)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:49:22 -0500
From: thomas.neary@peri.com (Tom Neary)
Subject: mashing in a 3 tier converted keg system
I am in the process of building a tower system using converted kegs (its
planned to be a 3 tier so I will not have to buy a pump). I would like to do
step mashes with this system and have a 35K BTU ring burner for heating the
mash tun. My question is what is better for the mash tun - a SS false bottom
or a copper manifold. I have heard varried comments about both. One being
that if using a false bottom and applying direct heat to the tun you must
recirculate the wort. I don't want to spend $100 on a pump and I feel that
recirculation by hand would be a pain while heating.
I would like to hear any comments on which is more suitable for my setup and
my desire to perform step mashes by applying direct heat. Is the false bottom
or the manifold better.
TIA
Tom Neary
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: info on Scottish Ale Yeast?
Does anyone have any comments (good or bad) about the Wyeast Scottish Ale
Yeast (1078 I think)? What are its preferences?
I didn't find anything in the FAQ at the Brewery, so it must be a pretty new
strain.
I'm making an old ale.
Thanks.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 13:49:46 -0600 (CST)
From: Daniel Louis Lanicek <daniell@jove.acs.unt.edu>
Subject: No Carbonation Revisited
I put out a post several weeks ago concerning a brown ale and porter
of mine having no carbonation. My stout looks like it's going to have the
same problem. I greatly appreciate the responses I received from the
original post but none of them pinpointed the problem. Each batch was 5
gal. and I used 3/4 cup of priming sugar (boiled in a cup of water) and
added it to the bottling bucket. The temperature where the bottles were
stored ranges from 70 to 74 degress Fahr. The stout is aprox. 2 weeks old
and the brown ale is at least a month old.
Besides the obvious question of what went wrong, I'm also
wondering if there is a way to save these beers by recarbonation. Can it
be done and how? Also, what the safest maximum amount of priming sugar you
can add to a 5 gal. batch (I'm gonna prime the hell out of my next batch
if I can't solve this problem!)
Thanks in advance,
Daniel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:00:43 -0500
From: Jim Elden <elden@accumedic.com>
Subject: False bottom for SS keg mash tun
Hello brewers,
Well, RIMS.1 is finally completed and we had the "maiden voyage"
this past weekend. All went reasonably well with the exception
of the false bottom.
I am using a SS screen that was purchased from a local homebrew shop
at an exorbitant price. The screen is supported by 8 2x1/4" SS bolts
welded around the converted keg.
Problem is, there is a small gap, maybe 1/4" between the edge of the
screen and the inside of the keg, enough for *too much* grain to
escape and disturb my sense of order and neatness, not to mention clog
up the pump.
I'm fishing for some suggestions, great ideas, etc. on how to get rid
of that gap!
Post or private email to elden@accumedic.com. Either is fine.
Thanks!
Jim Elden
------------------------------
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: 1056 and big beer
Eric writes:
>Yesterday I pitched a large quantity of healthy Wyeast 1056 into a wort
>of much higher gravity than I was expecting--1.073. I'm aiming for an
>old ale, so the gravity itself is fine with me, but I'm a little
>concerned that 1056 might not be able to handle it.
Don't worry about it. 1056 has handled many beers with a higher gravity
than that. My brewery comes to mind. Bigfoot comes to mind...
If you aerated well and pitched a good amount of yeast, you'll have a nice
beer.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 15:17:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: More BarleyWine Musings
Al comments on brewing Barleywines:
>Jethro:
> Here's a psuedo-scintific and anecdotal response...I recommend long
>secondaries for B-wines and any other high gravity brews. I wish I had the
>space to keep mine in secondary for a minimum of 6 months. It is my P-S
>opinion that high grav brews produce more of the higher alcohols, (fusels?),
<Right -- they make all of all alcohols, *including* higher (a.k.a. fusel)
<alcohols. Also, all that OG tends to increase the temperature of the
<fermenting wort itself which *further* increases higher alcohol production.
As fermentation produces alcohols, more fermentation produces more
alcohols of all types, seems reasonable. I do think yeast choice has
a lot to do with types of alcohols. Im sure Jethro had his chilling
jackets running to control his fermentation temp, only a madman would
not use this, if available. I personally believe that one of the
most important factors in making 25P BWs drinkable soon (1-2 months
after primary fermentation) is fermenting as cool as possible without
allowing the yeast to go dormant/dead.
< Dosing with
<gelatine or isinglass or filtering will actually SLOW the process of
<esterification (yeast turning alcohols and acids into esters) and will
<make the beer take LONGER to lose that "rough" character.
I wonder. Except for the filtering case, why does it matter where
the yeast is in the maturation vessel? Fined beer still carbonates
with the yeast on the bottom, why wouldnt reactions continue with
fined beer also? Should my 1.5 BBl unitank take longer to mature than
your 10 gallon fermenter or my 50 BBl uni? Not arguing, just musing.
<Don't filter!
<so I DON'T FILTER, force-carbonate, and counter-
<pressure fill the beer bottles.
Sounds like work!
Filtering gets a bad name among homebrewers and some craft brewers.
Shame. Bigfoot is filtered, then it is krausened. Same with Victory's
Old Horizontal Barley Wine. Personally I like to remove yeast exposed
to 10% alcohol asap and replace it with fresher less abused yeast.
Prost!
Jim Busch
Coming February 14: St. Victorious Doppelbock!!!
See Victory Brewing at:
http://www.victorybeer.com/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:51:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "P. Ullrich" <pullrich@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: IPA Review
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Oliver Weatherbee wrote:
> In regards to my recent valuable input on the IPA thread, all I can say
> is WOW. Talk about a brain-hiccup. I have no idea why, even after copying
> that section of the post, I thought Phil was talking about Sierra
> Nevada.
Hey, no problem, actually, your comments were relevant in that I have
heard people describe SNPA as an IPA, and I have seen it labeled as an
IPA at the store. I'll call it what the brewers call it, a pale ale.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:33:13 -0800
From: "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: carbonating soda's and recipies ideas?
i am getting ready for a feast, and would like to bring a keg with a
soda of some sort. I am thinking of some sort of Ginger/Apple soda.
Once i come up with an appropriate tasting concoction, how different is
it to carbonate a soda, than a beer? can some one post a simple how to?
(fairly detailed, as i am getting lost in terminolgy, and techniques
from all sources :)
My tentative soda recipe.....
(5 gallon)
2-6 cans of concentrate Apple juice (to taste)
Ginger
clove
oarnge peel
lemon peel
honey
tentative procedure: dissolve in a 5 gal pot filled with water, the
Juice, and the honey. bring near boiling, and add ginger, fruit peels,
and spices and simmer for 15-30 minutes (tasting frequently, done when
taste is ..er... well, tasty) cool, put in a sanitized keg, and
carbonate. serve.
Questions:
1) should i boil the spices, ginger, and peels in water, and then add
juice and honey?
2) any suggestions on amounts?
3) comments, or similar recipies?
Brander Roullett(a-branro) aka Badger http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/
For a quart of ale is a dish for a king. -William Shakespeare
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 16:16:23 EST
From: "Douglas J. Lecureaux USAET(UTC -05:00)" <usfmccxf@ibmmail.com>
Subject: (U)Wit Brewin
I'm a long time lurker sending this my first post. Thanks to all who have
kept this digest going and to all who have posted in the past. I have learned
much and look forward to continued expansion of my brewing abilities.
I am planning a Wit beer and though I understand the absolute must to include
corriander and Curacao orang peel I am not clear on the amounts of each or
the schedule of the additions for a 5 gallon batch. Looking forward to a
response. TIA.
Regards,
Douglas J. LeCureaux
Engine Drafting
(313)32-38385 IBMAIL USFMCCXF
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 97 15:21:27 -0600
From: Raymond Louvier <r099g@waii.com>
Subject: Yeast Starter for lagers
Hello to all my fellow brewers. I am going to brew my first lager next week
and I was wondering if the starter needs to be fermented at lager temps or ale
temps. I plan on making a half gallon starter which should be enough. Also
when I pour the yeast starter into my batch should I leave at room temp till
it starts fermenting then bring down to lager fermentation temps or bring the
batch to lager temps then introduce the yeast. Do any of you guys know a good
source for large Stainless Brew pots (15 Gal) with stainless nipple and valve
that has handles and a lid.
Thanks for your help,
Ray Louvier
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 13:38:29 PST
From: "Edward J. Steinkamp" <ejs0742@dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: THe malting of amaranth
I have not malted amaranth, however, I have malted quinoa
(pronounced keen-wa) which is similar in size to amaranth. I
don't have the notes with me, so forgive me if some of this
information is a bit vague.
I malted the quinoa following roughly the guidelines in "Brewing
Lager Beer" by Noonan. The grain was rinsed very well and then
soaked for a day or so. After that I drained it, and let it sit
in a dark cool (50-60F) place, covered with a towel for what was
supposed to be 10-14 days for barley. After one or two days
about 80% of the seeds were sprouted so I stopped there. I don't
have a food dehydrator but the minimum temp on my oven is 160F
which coincidentally is the same temp for roasting grain to make
crystal malt. I placed the moist, sprouted quinoa into a turkey
roaster, with the lid on, and roasted it at 160F again according
to Noonan. The roasted grain was then spread thin on cookie
sheets to dry in the warm oven.
The resulting crystal quinoa was about the same color as #60
crystal. It's contribution to the fermentable was calculated to be
around half that of pale malted barley.
I made two batches with this stuff, the first being a 1 1/2 US
gal batch and the second being a normal five gal batch. The
first batch was 50% quinoa, but not a good data point since the
brew was completely out of control. I brewed it at the same time
that I brewed a ten gallon batch. One batch in the kitchen and
one in the garage. Funny how it's difficult to be in two places at
one time, not to mention the difficulties associated with brewing
1 1/2 gallons, when all of your equipment is geared towards five
to ten gal batches. After everything the beer came out pretty good,
but who knows how.
The second batch was 25% quinoa, 5% #80 crystal and 70% pale.
Target gravity 1.050, 18 IBU and 15-20 SRM color. I combined all
the grain (including the quinoa which is actually an herb, not a
grain) with 170~175F water to stabilize at 154F in a single step
infusion mash. I used Wyeast london ESB liquid yeast and home
grown Hallertauer hops.
The beer came out with an interesting nutty flavor and great head
retention. Overall it was an excellent ESB (yeah yeah I didn't
use fuggles, kent goldings or anything, but I like hallertauer
hops in my ESB) and was a great crowd pleaser. Beer snobs
and novice alike enjoyed this beer while I had it on tap.
Ed Steinkamp
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 15:43:22 -0600
From: Dane Mosher <dmosher@xroadstx.com>
Subject: Chuck's decoction from hell
Chuck Bernard related his problem of undershooting the target mash
temperature after the first thick decoction. He then decided not to
bother with the thin decoction and just mashed out the entire mash on
the stove.
First, don't worry. Your beer will be fine. It will have much of the
maltiness that a double decoction has. Only once have I gone to the
trouble of doing a full triple decoction mash, and even then I didn't
notice much difference between that batch and my single decoction
batches. However, I might suggest that in future batches you boil the
decoctions for at least 10-15 minutes, and even as long as 30-45 minutes
for a malty German lager. It's the boiling action that creates the
desired melanoidins and improves your yield.
Second, hitting the right temps when mixing a decoction into the main
mash can be tricky. Don't call it quits yet. I undershot my target
temperatures quite often at first. What I learned from those
experiences is that I needed to pull more of the mash for my thick
decoctions, and that adding brewing water to the decoction to prevent
scorching had the added benefit of increasing my thermal mass. If you
are worried about overshooting your target mash temps, remember that you
can always add the decoction back slowly, letting it cool as needed. I
have also learned that the beer always comes out fine (though maybe not
the perfection I had envisioned), even if I mashed a little cooler than
I had planned.
Yours brewly,
Dane Mosher
Big Spring, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:57:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Alex Santic <alex@salley.com>
Subject: Re: Wyeast 1056 and High O.G.
From: Eric Scheidler <ejs000@dns.colum.edu>:
>...I pitched a large quantity of healthy Wyeast 1056 into a wort of much
>higher gravity than I was expecting--1.073. I'm aiming for an old
>ale...but I'm a little concerned that 1056 might not be able to handle it.
At 1.073 I wouldn't worry. That little yeastie ferments admirably if you
pitch a suitable starter (good aeration is pretty important too), and your
OG is certainly within reason for an old ale. Hopefully you made a
dextrinous wort, because you don't really want an old ale to attenuate to
the max. A yeast that's a little more laid back than 1056 might be an even
better choice, but don't worry -- it'll be okay.
Did you see the cool article on old ales in the recent issue of Zymurgy?
According to the author's suggestions, you should have been aiming for
about 43 IBUs of bitterness for a good balance. I'd be more concerned that
your under-estimation of the OG might have led you to use less than an
optimal amount of bittering hops.
- --
Alex Santic - alex@salley.com
Silicon Alley Connections, LLC
527 Third Avenue #419 - NYC 10016 - 212-213-2666 - Fax 212-447-9107
http://www.salley.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 13:52:17 -0800
From: Dean Larson <Dean.Larson@gonzaga.edu>
Subject: Wyeast 1056/high gravity worts/barleywine
Eric asks:
>Anybody have any experience with 1056 and a gravity this high (1.073)?
There have also been a few recent posts regarding what yeast to ferment
barleywines with. I've got a couple of data points which address these. I
brewed my first barleywine about 10 months ago. OG was 1.095 and it was
pitched with 1-2 cups of slurry recovered from a primary fermentation with
Wyeast 1056. This finished at 1.024. I brewed another just prior to Xmas
to lay down for next year's holiday season. OG was 1.100 and again pitched
with 1-2 cups of slurry from a 1056 primary ferment. This one finished at
1.028. My experience is that 1056 works just fine in high gravity worts if
sufficient yeast is pitched.
Happy Brewing!
Dean Larson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 18:18:04 -0500
From: Mike Marshburn <mike48@erols.com>
Subject: British Malt
Brewers
I wish to try British malt in my brewing. In looking at the suppliers
of the malt I noticed there are a couple, Munton and Crisp and they
have a couple of pale ale malts. Munton has pale ale and Crisp has pale
ale and Maris Otter. Is there a difference? I've been reading that the
British malt is the best for brewing true to style IPA's and bitters. I
would appreciate any feedback from brewers that have used both US and
British malts for IPA and bitters.
This is a great forum, I wish to thank everyone involved for its
resurrection.
Mike M
mike48@erols.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:37:43 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: spigot for Aluminum brewpot
In Homebrew Digest #2337, "John T. Moore" <JMOORE@sfasu.edu> said:
<snip>
>I have a large aluminum brewpot for my boils...and I'm thing of adding
>a spigot to it to save wear and tear on my back. I would like to use a
>bulkhead-type fitting instead of having someone try to weld a fitting into
>place. However, I also know that there is such a process called electrolytic
>corrossion caused by joining two different metals. Would this be a problem
>in my case and if so how can it be solved (other than buying a SS pot -
I've done this to my three 10 gallon, 5mm thick aluminum stock pots. I've
been using them for about 18 months and there is a bit of corrosion around
and under the fittings (with copper bushings/washers under the nuts), but
it isn't bad. For a little while I disassembled the fittings while I
wasn't using them, but I got lazy and haven't lately. So far, corrosion is
minimal, but I will keep track and start disassembling if necessary.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:45:35 -0700 (MST)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Subject: Flavor descriptions
A lot of flavor profiles are mentioned on the HBD - I know it is
difficult but does anyone have a description of what common tastes are
found in beer such as diacetyl, ester, HSA, etc etc.... ? Is there a list
somewhere ?
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:28:32 -0600
From: Rob Moline <brewer@kansas.net>
Subject: Ferm-Cap/B-Wine Yeast/O2
>From: C. Erik Larson
> Foam Control (TM)
>I have only seen Hoptech's Foam Control mentioned once in this
forum;...have been relatively happy with it -- the exception
>being that it failed (at the recemmended dosing rate) to restrain the
>blowoff in a Tripel I brewed a month ago..... How has it affected your beers?
I use FERM-CAP, by Siebel, distributed by Crosby and Baker. Great
stuff, for the reasons you have noted. There is no residual F-C, in the
finished beer. You will notice that instead of a wide band of krausen
residue above the level of the wort, (or a huge mess from blow-off)...there
will be a thin ring of krausen and F-C. It has had no effect on head
retention or anything else....they say you can use it in the kettle to
control foam, but that it may affect hop utilization, and that you may need
to use more hops. BTW, the 1st B-Wine I did fought the Ferm-Cap, and the
Ferm-Cap lost. But now I use a little more for big beers.
>From: "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro@MICROSOFT.com>
My question is why do you use the yeast like
>this, (ale first, then add champagne)? what purpose does it serve? and
>how do you get the o2 in? (a oxy bottle?)
I had discussed this with Gordon Specht of Lallemand, their agent in
the U.S., and what I wanted was some esters from the ale yeast and the high
alcohol tolerance of the Champagne yeast. And while there was a good result
from this combination..I felt that it might be improved upon, and tried just
the EC-1118 (Champers yeast). But it is now apparent to me that the EC-118
in a malt wort eats only certain sugars and leaves the bulk of sugars behind.
Having achieved a not really 'stuck' fermentation, but one that had
gone all the way for that yeast, when using the EC-1118, I then had to find
a way to get some ale yaest, in adequate numbers going in what was then a
low pH and relatively high ETOH wort. The 1500 grams of dry yeast did the
trick, albeit started slowly; as of now the wort has dropped from 14 Plato
to approx 5 Plato, and blow-off CO2 is bubbling very slowly.
I still will continue with the EC-1118. "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it!"
As for the O2, I use industrial O2 tanks for aeration with a small
stone ($ 25, stainless sintered steel) just after the heat exchanger,
re-constitute the dry yeast in a corny keg, wait 10 minutes, then add some
fresh wort to attemperate the yeast and use the pressurized O2 , to the
corny keg, to force the yeast slurry into the bottom of the fermenter. This
mixes the yeast in the wort well, and a little extra O2, at this stage of
the game, helps, rather than hinders.
The big question still on my mind is will the O2 I used with the ale
yeast, tend to make an oxidized flavor, or were the ale yeasties able to
suck it up? Time will tell. Currently the wort seems fine.
Jethro (Learning All The Time) Gump
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company,
Manhattan, Kansas.
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:30:46 -0800
From: "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Candi Sugar?
i was reading an article on Belgian Abbey type ales that stated that
Candi sugar is Essential for brewing in this style. is this true? has
any one got a decent extract with simple infusion mashing recipe that
they would care to share with me? alot of the Cats meow recipes are
complicated, and all grain. i am not quite ready to plunge yet
(gathering equip still) so i am going to stay extract for a while. i
can do about 2-3 lbs of grain in the Pan in the oven, and spaghetti
strainer mashing setup.
how much extract of what type?
specialty grains? (special B, munich malt, etc)
Candi sugar?
(spices?)
Wyeast belgian ale yeast
Brander Roullett(a-branro) aka Badger
http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/
If on my theme I rightly think,
There are five reasons why men drink,
Good wine, a frein, because I'm dry,
Or lest I should be by and by,
Or any other reason why. -Pere Sirmond
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 18:00:30 -0700
From: Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist <homebrew@infomagic.com>
Subject: Brew-Ski '97 (Homebrewing Competition)
Just a quick reminder...
The 1997 Brew-Ski Homebrewing Competition held on February 22 at the Arizona
Snowbowl is only a few weeks away. This BJCP/AHA sanctioned competition is
open to all brewers. Refer to The AHA '97 guidelines for entry information.
With every beer entered you will receive a lift ticket on the day of the
event for $15.00. Entrys must be received by Feb. 19th. If you need info
please e-mail us outpost@homebrewers.com.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:30:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Alex Santic <alex@salley.com>
Subject: Another Gourmet Brewer recommendation
As per the recent post by Kate Cone, I feel compelled to second the
recommendation of Dave Bartz and his Gourmet Brewer business. Far as I can
tell, Dave is a serious brewer who goes out his way to assure customer
satisfaction. I think the sort of crowd that frequents the HBD would
really like him, and I suspect he'd put more than the usual effort into
helping newbies as well.
I have no business affiliation whatsoever with Dave, but I did place an
order with him and found him to be a super-nice guy who knew brewing and
followed up by long-distance phone more than once to keep me posted on my
order as well as make sure that everything was a-okay.
- --
Alex Santic - alex@salley.com
Silicon Alley Connections, LLC
527 Third Avenue #419 - NYC 10016 - 212-213-2666 - Fax 212-447-9107
http://www.salley.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:50:18 +0000
From: "John Robinson" <robinson@novalis.ca>
Subject: (Fwd) (Fwd) Re: Homebrew Digest Request (February 03, 1997)
Hi all,
I cleverly mailed this to something not entirely unlike the HBD's
address the other day....if it surfaces please disregard duplicates.
Can anyone email me the ASBC procedures for determining IBUs?
I would like to pass this information on to a food analysis company
in Toronto to see if they can conduct the test. Thanks.
- ---
John Robinson "When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty.
Software Developer I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I
NovaLIS Technologies have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know
robinson@novalis.ca it is wrong." - Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:49:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Hal Davis <davis@planolaw.com>
Subject: canning wort
>A more important caveat is that YOU CANNOT SAFELY CAN WORT
> IN A BOILING WATER BATH.
The risk of botulism was mentioned.
Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no known
pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're canning wort is to
cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If the yeast does its thing and beer
is made, wouldn't that kill any botulism baddies?
Hal Davis
The Safety Brewery
Plano, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 04:37:57 -0500
From: murphrey@us.ibm.com
Subject: Wyeast 1056 and High O.G.
Classification:
Prologue: TCP/IP Workstation Development
Building 503, Room G119, Department G78A
4205 S. Miami Boulevard
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
Telephone: 919-254-6691 (or tie line 444-6691)
Epilogue:
Eric Scheidler doesn't need to worry. 1056 can handle gravities much
higher than 1.073. It should ferment all the way down with no problem.
But for an old ale, 1056 may not give the desired flavor. I prefer 1098 for
old ales. Gives good results every time.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 04:38:38 -0500
From: murphrey@us.ibm.com
Subject: Kitchen water filter
Classification:
Prologue: TCP/IP Workstation Development
Building 503, Room G119, Department G78A
4205 S. Miami Boulevard
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
Telephone: 919-254-6691 (or tie line 444-6691)
Epilogue:
Jim McNealy asked about water filters. Installing a $30 Water Pic
filter on the cold water line under my kitchen sink caused an
immediate, big improvement in my homebrews. It took an hour to
install, and I changed the activated-carbon filter every 6 months.
Removed the chlorine and probably some other undesirables;
made a noticable change in the water taste, too.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 06:54:05 -0500
From: rhampo@ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: Homebrew Wind
Gentlemen,
Picking up on the "wind" thread, I just wanted to tell you
that you are not alone. Over a year ago, I did an informal
survey (on the HBD) about that subject. The question asked
was "Does homebrew give you more/worse gas than commercial
beer?" and the overwhelming answer was YES - the ratio was
about 20 to 1. It was also suggested that the yeast played
some role in the process. I never did any experimentation
with commercial bottle conditioned beer to test it, though.
Happy Sailing!
Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:15:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Esbitter@aol.com
Subject: South Shore Brew Club Homebrew Competition
Don't forget to save some entries for the:
****************************************************************
South Shore Brew Club's
SECOND ANNUAL SOUTH SHORE BREWOFF
Boston South's Best Homebrew Competition!
BJCP sanctioned
****************************************************************
Deadline for entries March 15th, 1997.
Pickup entry forms and style guidelines at the dropoff locations listed
below.
Any questions about the competition regulations, procedures, awards, etc.,
should be directed to:
Glenn Markel 508-226-3249 (grmarkel@aol.com)
or
Randy Reed 617-341-8170 (esbitter@aol.com)
Interested in Judging/Stewarding Sunday, March 23rd? Please contact Stephen
Rose at 508-821-4152 for a judge/steward entry form.
First come, first served. BJCP points and food will be provided.
Entry forms can be obtained at the following drop off points:
Witches Brew, 25 Baker St. Foxboro, MA (508)-543-0433
Barleycorn Enterprises, 149 Union St. Rockland, MA 02370 (617)-871-9399
Hoppy Brewer, 493 Central Ave. Seekonk, MA 02771 (508)-761-6615
Barley Malt & Vine, 26 Elliot St. Newton, MA 02161 (617)-630-1015
Brew Horizons, 884 Tiogue Ave., Coventry, RI 02816 (401)-589-2739
Entries can also be shipped to:
South Shore Brew Club, c/o Glenn Markel
1053 Pleasant Street
Attleboro, MA 02703
We expect this year's competition to receive over 100 entries. It's large
enough to give your entry plenty to compete against while not so large as
make winning a "longshot." The goal of our Brewoff is to provide home
brewers quality, objective feedback of their craft. We are looking forward to
judging your entry.
Good Luck!
-Randy
====================================================
+-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
+ The Local Brewing Company +
+ ESBITTER@AOL.COM + Surfing the
+ Randy Reed + Information
+ BJCP Recognized SuperBikePath
Beer Judge/Potscrubber + &
+ South Shore Brew Club + Whirled Wide
+ (Boston, MA Area - South) + Web
+-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-+
Visit the South Shore Brew Club at http://members.aol.com/brewclub/
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2339, 02/07/97
*************************************
-------
