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HOMEBREW Digest #2341
HOMEBREW Digest #2341 Sun 09 February 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Plate heat exchanger ("Lorena Barquin Sanchez")
MgSO4 is not bitter enough!/skunking/HBD split (korz)
bitter wort/aeration during fermentation (korz)
Wort Canning, I had no idea. (Rory Stenerson)
skunking/flux removal (Dave Riedel)
Question about hop (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
1999 U.S.Open homebrew competition announcement ("Keith Royster")
Brew pots (Harlan Bauer)
Beer engines (Harlan Bauer)
Rhysomes for HB in CA (XKCHRISTIAN)
Re:Bavarian Weizen (Jim Bentson)
re: home malting (Rscholz)
Lagering in Cornies (Rich Hampo)
False bottom for SS keg mas ("DICK KUZARA")
Re: Home malting, part 1 (Jeff Renner)
Wyeast Scottish, smoke, Barleywine /Belgian Ale recipe ("MASSIMO FARAGGI")
Canning wort (Bob McCowan)
Pro/Am Homebrew beer tasting (CHUCK HUDSON HOMEBREW HAVEN)
Barleywine (Cuchulain Libby)
Priming, flatulence ("David R. Burley")
Pumpkin Beer ("C&S Peterson")
Strawberry Beer ("C&S Peterson")
Re: "dropping" and British ales (and FWH) (Jeff Renner)
Beer Yeast Bread (MaltyDog)
RESTORING EXTERIOR OF CORNY KEGS (JOSEPH J DILLON)
mash tuns/British pale ale malt (Harlan Bauer)
Re: canning wort ("Paul Kensler")
Re: canning wort (David Hammond)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:35:40 -0400
From: "Lorena Barquin Sanchez" <mbarquin@Telcel.Net.VE>
Subject: Plate heat exchanger
Date: Feb.06,1997
From: Lorenzo Barquin <mbarquin@telcel.net.ve>
Subject:Plate Heat Exchanger
Though I have been homebrewing for 4 years, I have only recently subscribed
to HBD, therefore I don't know if my request has been answered before,
however I appreciate the patience and help of all of you.
I have put together a RIMS system using only SS for all of its parts. I am
really trying to make an extraordinary beer (I believe we all are trying to
do the same). My problem is that I don't really want to cool my wort using
the technique of a copper coil for either immersion or in the inside of a
counterflow heat exchanger. Using a SS coil is the next possibility but I
would require 7 times more surface area than using copper, which turns out
to be a lot of feet in length. I once read about a homemade plate heat
exchanger. Does anyone have prints or does anyone know who makes one that
can cool 1/2 bbl in less than 10 min. using ice bath cooled water?
Thks
Lorenzo Barquin
Maracay, Venezuela
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:37:41 -0600 (CST)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: MgSO4 is not bitter enough!/skunking/HBD split
Dave writes:
>>Dave writes:
>>>>" Finally, let's do a reality check on our posts before we jump all over Al,
>Actually, Al, you said this about yourself when you finished presenting your
>Epsom Salts taste experiment on water - not beer..
Apparently, you don't understand my point. I said (read my post again!)
that the bitternes of Epsom Salts (MgSO4) themselves are not enough to
increase the bitterness noticeably. Tasting MgSO4 in water was simply a
test of the bitterness of the salt, not how much they would change the
*percieved* bitterness of the beer. My whole point is that just like
CALCIUM sulphate increases the bitterness of beer and as sulphuric acid
increases the bitterness of beer, so will MgSO4, but by the action of the
sulphate on the *perceived* bitterness of the beer. Suphates accentuate
the bitterness of the hops! MgSO4 *is* bitter, but it is not bitter
*enough* to change the bitterness of the beer if it didn't have any
hops in it!
>Al said:
>> Any homebrewing book will tell
>> you that it's the sulphate.
>I say:
>
>Apparently the sea salt industry disagrees with this as a recent HBDer
>commentedthat the industry tries to remove the magnesium since
>it gives the table salt a
>bitter taste.
[How Dave gets by with 100+ character lines, I don't know...] I never,
ever contested the fact that MgSO4 is bitter... just that it is not
bitter *enough* to account for the bitterness increase it provides.
>A very recent book (1996, Storey) by Lee W. Janson called "Brew Chem 101" says
>on page 15 the following:
<snip>
>Dr. Janson holds a PhD in biological sciences and biochemistry, is a homebrewer
>and a certified beer judge.
I have read some things in HBD quoted from that book in the past, but cannot
find them because I can't reach Spencer's search engine and The Brewery's
HBD search engine rejects "Brew Chem 101." I recall that there was at least
one glaring error posted that referenced that book.
>Does anybody remember if Miller HIgh Life, when it was the "Champagne
>of BottledBeers" and came in clear glass bottles, was skunked? I wasn't
>tuned into this
>fault at this time , so can't comment, but don't remember it being that way.
I don't recall either, but currntly Miller uses a processed hop extract
(except for the "Miller Beer") which is immune to skunking. This is how
they can get away with clear bottles.
***
Ron writes:
>Why not have an extract HBD and an all grain HBD.
Remember that everthing in the boil, fermentation, bottle, and
keg is the same for both all-grain and extract. Presumably
some people would post to both when they have a kegging question.
This would irritate the readers who subscribe to both digests.
What about all the great ideas posted on the extract digest
regarding filtration? Don't the all-grain brewers want to
read these ideas? Similarly with the comments on bottle-conditioning
posted only to the all-grain HBD. The extract HBD readers
miss out, no?
As I said before... some people are going to be bored by some of
the questions and answers if there is a single HBD. I think
that skipping over what you already know or don't think you need
to know yet is the best way to assure that we all contribute and
we'll all learn. Incidentally, the ester stuff from Steve was WAY
over my head although I saved it in a file for the future when perhaps
I *will* understand it.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:39:35 -0600 (CST)
From: korz@xnet.com
Subject: bitter wort/aeration during fermentation
>George writes:
Al K. writes that if wort tastes too bitter prior to fermentation,
then the beer will be too bitter because there will be less sugar
balancing that bitterness.
This is contrary to my experience. I find that freshly bittered wort
is deeply and harshly bitter, and that the bitterness is reduced and
smoother after fermentation. This makes no sense if only considering
the balancing sweetness of the wort sugars, but does make sense when
factoring in the fact that yeast activity reduces hop bitterness (by
what mechanism, though?).
Drat... I wasn't clear again. Spencer called me on this one privately,
so in the interest of saving my fingers from further carpal tunnel
damage, I'll just quote my response to him:
Yes, fine, but there's also all that malt which is unfermented to
balance the bitterness. I have never thought to myself "self...
how bitter would this beer be if not for all this sweetness in the
unfermented wort?" but I imagine that it may, indeed (as you say)
be more bitter than the finished beer. Note also, that the IBUs
in the unfermented wort will be FAR FAR higher than in the finshed
beer... LOTS of IBUs are lost during fermentation (adsorbed by yeast,
stuck to ceiling, lost to blowoff...). In fact, if you look at
the archives, you will find that Glenn Tinseth found something like
42 or 45% utilization after the boil. This drops down to something
like 20 to 30% by the end of fermentation. I've seen the viewgraphs
from a talk by Bob Foster from Coors at Seibel who found something
similar.
My point was, however, that with all that malt flavour to balance
the bitterness, if the bitterness is STILL unbearable (consider
that you can put 80IBUs in a 1.030FG Imperial Stout and it will
taste malty, not bitter, in balance), then you *may* have a
problem. Recall that I did urge him to forge ahead and try it
anyway. I'm afraid that I didn't phrase the "aging" part of the
post well -- it sounds like I want him to try a minimum of a
year -- what I meant was try a bottle every few months and don't
*give up* for more than a year.
***
>Charles writes:
>Some time ago, there was a brief discussion on this list about the
>practice of "dropping" British ales, as recommended by Wheeler and
>Protz. Dropping involves transferring the ale from primary to secondary
>after only about a day or two of active fermentation. In the transfer,
>the fermenting ale is dropped from the siphon from a height of several
>feet, in order to provide some aeration. The homebrewers who tried this
>said that it produced noticeably smoother, rounder beers, and also
>seemed to accentuate the hop character of the beers. My question is
>this: how do these beers fare over the long haul -- do they degrade
>more rapidly than non-dropped beers due to the infusion of oxygen? I
>guess another question is whether others of you have tried this -- if
>you have, how did you like the results, both short-term and long-term?
I have four comments on this. Firstly, read what Wheeler wrote again...
he said that aeration was *optional*. The key to the dropping method
is to leave the dregs and the dirty head in the primary and remove the
fermenting beer from in between the two. Aeration is *sometimes* done
along with this.
Secondly, "smoother, rounder..." *could* simply be just "less bitter."
In the experiment that I wrote up in Brewing Techniques ("When Fermentation
Raises It's Dirty Head") I pointed out that none of the tasters (including
some very highly-experienced BJCP judges) noted more harshness in the
non-blowoff batch. The blowoff method of fermentation does very much
the same thing regarding the dirty head (the brown part of the kraeusen).
Note that above I say "*could*" because there is the possibility that
removing the beer from the hot and cold break could reduce the production
of higher alcohols which can reduce roughness.
Thirdly, accentuating the hop character could simply be because the
roused yeast fermented the beer more compleatly (OE, but I like it)
than the same yeast unroused. This is definitely the case with yeasts
like Wyeast #1968 and the Samuel Smith's yeast from The Yeast Culture
Kit Co.
Finally, I have tasted a number of beers made both by homebrewers and
comercially in which there has been considerable aeration during
fermentation. None of the beers that I can recall suffered from the
aeration in the short-term, other than some being quite high
in diacetyl (which would certainly be a fault in most lagers and some
judges dislike exceedingly buttery ales, too). On the other hand,
I did taste an older beer that was aerated during fermentation and
the aldehydes in it were unmistakable. The beer was almost undrinkable.
The beer was Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout. All the Samuel Smith's
ales are aerated during fermentation and while most of the bottles
of these wonderful beers have been excellent, this one sixpack
(old, presumably), was very high in aldehydes (morning after air-pumped
kegger beer) aromas and flavours.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:53:14 -0500
From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664@compuserve.com>
Subject: Wort Canning, I had no idea.
Greetings,
I've been following the scary thread about wort canning. Scott Murman's
comments are quite convincing. Would the procedure laid out in Charlie
Papazian's TNCJHB about preparing beer bottles of wort to be later used as
starters be subject to the Botulism risk?
I used his procedure that was laid out on pages 276-279. If I'm at risk
I'll dump them out since I definitely don't have a death wish. Life is
good!
Cheers, and happy brewing everyone.
Rory Stenerson,
State College Underground Malsters, (S.C.U.M.), Board Member
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 15:13:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL@ios.bc.ca>
Subject: skunking/flux removal
First of all, three cheers to Pat and Karl for the revival of the 'old'
digest.
- ------
Discussion has been on-going of late regarding skunked beer. We heard the
merits of clear to green to brown bottles, but what about cans? Everyone
always talks about un-skunked Pilsner Urquell being unavailable in North
America in the pale green glass bottle, but I can get it in *cans*. Does
anyone know how imported canned PU (and Heineken for that matter) compare to
the real thing?
- ------
Recently, I have been preparing my all-grain set up. This has involved some
soldering. I've been using lead-free solder, but I'm concerned about removing
the flux which is labelled as highly toxic. What's a good way of ensuring its
removal? I soaked the parts in vinegar for about 30 mins... would that be
adequate?
cheers,
Dave Riedel, Victoria, BC, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:39:29 -0300 (GMT-0300)
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb@elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Subject: Question about hop
Dear friends,
I would appreciate if any of you can send me information about a certain
hop known by the name of Strickle-Bract or something similar. I need
alpha acid content, whether it should be used for aroma, flavor or
bitterness, origin, etc. Any comment will be welcomed.
Thanks.
Jorge Blasig
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:07:22 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster@pex.net>
Subject: 1999 U.S.Open homebrew competition announcement
This is to announce the:
1997 U.S.OPEN
AHA Recognized Homebrew Competition
Sponsored by the Carolina BrewMasters
CALL FOR ENTRIES!!!
April 20th, 1996
Charlotte, NC
For more information, contact us at:
Web http://dezines.com/@your.service/cbm/
site contains printable entry forms, etc.
Comp. c/o Ed Gaston
Organizer 4124 Johnston Oehler Rd.
Charlotte, NC 28269
Comp. Co- Keith Royster
Organizer email: keith.royster@pex.net
phone: (704) 663-1098 (evenings)
Interested in Judging? Contact:
Bruno Wichnoski
email: bruhaus@uncc.campus.mci.net
phone (day): 704.375.9112
phone (eve): 704.597.5782
OR
Roman Davis
email: zymurgist@aol.com
phone (day): 704.375.9112
phone (eve): 704.362.1688
Keith Royster - Mooresville, North Carolina
"Where if the kudzu don't gitcha, the Baptists will!"
mailto:keith.royster@pex.net
http://dezines.com/@your.service -@your.service
http://dezines.com/@your.service/cbm -Carolina BrewMasters
http://dezines.com/@your.service/RIMS -My RIMS page, rated COOL! by the Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:10:29 -0600
From: blacksab@midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: Brew pots
Frosty asks the following:
>I am looking for a new brew pot...I want to get a new 8-10 gallon SS pot
but I >have a few questions:
>1) How much. I read about some on the hoptech homepage. They had a
>Vollrath 38.5 qt (9.6 gal) for $170. This is kind of expensive, but I do
>want quality. This will last a long time. (well, it should). Any other
>suggestions?
Vollrath are the best. Period. But a converted keg is cheaper.
>2) Can I heat this new pot (whatever it is) on the stove. I have a
>standard gas stove? I do not want to but a propage "burner" just to heat
>this sucker unless I have to.
I think you'll have a hard time using a keg on the stove. The Vollrath will
work, but non-commercial type stoves really don't have the BTU's. I'd
suggest using a Superb burner and use the gas source on your stove to supply
the burner. These burners come equipped with an LP orifice--if you have
natural gas, simply change the orifice. Have someone tap into the gas line
(basement, near stove, where-ever) and place a T with a shutoff valve and a
male flare fitting. Just "plug" in the stove whenever you want to use it.
>3) How easy is it to convert this to the easymash system. I have been
>reading the threads about drilling stainless, and it doesn't seem to
>hard...*swallow* It will be scary if I pay > $150 for a brewpot.
Easy! But this is one of the advantages of using a keg--if you mess up, or
decide later that you think you've found a better method, the costs are less
with a keg. If you ultimately like what you've made, THEN you can transfer
the design to the Vollrath.
>4) Do you ever take out the easymasher. Is is now a permenant part of
>your brewpot? What if you want to go back and do a quickie extract batch?
>Does it just sit in there doing no harm?
I remove my EM after every brew for cleaning (I have one in my brew kettle
and my mash tun). Everything on my system is 3/8-in flare fittings and
copper tubing, so removal is a snap.
>5) Is the easymasher hard to clean.
No, it's a dream.
>6) What about hops. Do they get stuck down there? Pellets?
I always use whole hops and they form a nice filterbed to filter out the hot
break. I know nothing about pellets.
Check out some of the web pages out there on building 3-tier systems. Even
if you don't want to go that big, you'll gather some good ideas from what
other people have done. Those of us that have made them have all made
mistakes--learn from our mistakes. You'll make plenty of your own ;-)
Scott Kaczorowski (http://users.deltanet.com/~kacz) has a nice page. He
explains the process very cogently. There are some links to 2-tier systems
as well, and links to RIMS if you want to go that route (be sure to hit the
link to Dion Hollenbeck's page).
Hope this helps,
Harlan
*********************************************************************
* *
* Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can *
* Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. *
* <blacksab@midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman *
* *
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:13:40 -0600
From: blacksab@midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: Beer engines
Chas Peterson wrote:
>I will be going to London in a few weeks on business, and am hoping to pick up
>a beer engine or two while I am there. My understanding is that the pubs were
>recently required to change out their beer engines (some had brass parts), and
>that many are simply lying around in cellars waiting to be bought by American
>homebrewers longing to infect their brains with lead. :-)
>
>Does anyone out there know of someone I can contact in the London area that
>might have a few of these "banned" engines?
Try Mike Newton at Kooltech
Head Office
433-437 Hillington Road
Hillington Industrial Estate
Glasgow G52 4BL
Kooltech Developments Ltd.
Bank Chambers
Hathersage
Sheffield S30 1BB
tel: +44(0)1433 651121
or, Robin Cooke at Filton Brewery Products, Ltd.
Little Chawbrook
Chawbrook Road
Eastbourne
E. Sussex BN22 8HB
tel: 01321 416948
I met them both at the Real Ale festival last fall at Goose Island in
Chicago. Nice fellows, both. (usual disclaimer...)
TTYL,
Harlan
*********************************************************************
* *
* Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can *
* Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. *
* <blacksab@midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman *
* *
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 20:08:51 -0800 (PST)
From: XKCHRISTIAN@ccvax.fullerton.edu
Subject: Rhysomes for HB in CA
Hi
Three years ago I planted some Cascade and Perle hops. They took
off big time. In fact I have had to pull a few of the hills out.
Needless to say I have a great supply of rhysomes! If you are in
Orange County CA and would like to share some HB for some
rhysomes, let me know ASAP.
If you want to give me a call, you can reach me at 714 638-3201
I would also like to say thanks to Pat for giving the HBD a new
home! Long the the HBD!
Keith
XKCHRISTIAN@FULLERTON.EDU
The brewer who can do it in the dark -)
PS Please call or email me directly I don't get to read the HBD
until the weekends usually.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 23:10:39 -0500
From: Jim Bentson <jbentson@htp.net>
Subject: Re:Bavarian Weizen
Gavin Scarman recently wrote
>I have been trying to brew a true to style bavarian weizen ( my whole
>reason for getting back into homebrewing).
>snip<
> Has anyone any hope to offer me in Wyeast weihenstephan?
Gavin
I worked in a micro brewery this summer where they made a fantastic Hefe
Weissbier. We used the Wyeast weihenstephan yeast (3068) that you asked
about so I can offer you not only hope but probable expectation of a great
tasting beer. This yeast is a VERYstrong fermenter and you should probably
consider using a blow off tube and a glass fermenter for your primary
otherwise sand bags would be appropriate. The Wyeast suggested temperature
for this one is 64-70 deg F with 68 deg F given as the preferred value
BTW the beer at the brewery was made with a step infusion rather than a
decoction. Still tasted phenomenal.
- --
Registered ICC User
check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 04:58:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Rscholz@aol.com
Subject: re: home malting
Guy Gregory in his attempt at home malting ( I applaud the effort ) had some
problems with low yields from the malt.
One thing I suggest is get a good crush to evaluate your malting technique
without the added effect of variable grinds.
Two: I think your drying phase kilning was too hot, DeClerck states that the
temp should be about 40-45C(104-113F, use an in oven thermometer - temp
control on the oven dial can be very inaccurate and try to put it in the
malt) After 24 hours, slowly in a long ramp up(15hours) , raise the temp to
80C(176F) for 5 hours. Slightly higher to get some color in the malt. The
thing he really says to monitor is the moisture of the malt, if it's not
dry(<10%) before it gets to 50C(122F) the enzymic activity or the malt will
become vitreous and drastically reduce the diastatic ability of the malt.
Hope this helps and keep us informed with your progress.
Richard l scholz
bkyln ny
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 06:40:35 -0500
From: rhampo@ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: Lagering in Cornies
Hi all,
I'm looking to rack my dortmunder from the secondary to a corny
for lagering in my beer fridge (The carboy won't fit). I don't have
any airlock for the keg, so I will have to vent it manually. How often
will I need to release the pressure and vent the fumes, etc that
lagering is supposed to produce? Should I purge the headspace
with fresh CO2 each time or is this unnecessary? Anecdotal or theoretical
evidence is welcome.
Thanks!
Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: 7 Feb 1997 06:56:13 U
From: "DICK KUZARA" <DICK_KUZARA@itd.sterling.com>
Subject: False bottom for SS keg mas
Subject: Time: 6:53
OFFICE MEMO False bottom for SS keg mash tun Date: 2/07/97
Jim Elden writes:
<I am using a SS screen that was purchased from a local homebrew shop
at an exorbitant price. The screen is supported by 8 2x1/4" SS bolts
welded around the converted keg.
Problem is, there is a small gap, maybe 1/4" between the edge of the
screen and the inside of the keg, enough for *too much* grain to
escape and disturb my sense of order and neatness, not to mention clog
up the pump.>
As a suggestion, cut a piece of 3/8 ID tubing to exactly fit the inside
diameter. Use a short 3/8 OD dowel to connect the tubing ends.
So the tubing won't float, fill with sand and Clorox/water mixture
and seal the dowel joint with silicon glue.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:35:14 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Home malting, part 1
IN Homebrew Digest #2338, "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461@ecy.wa.gov> described
his home malting procedure which resulted in a disappointing 10 points per
pound per gallon, and asks
>Anybody want to tell me what went wrong? Should I go for a kilning step?
> Is my crush that bad? Or maybe it's the variety? Will I bird hunt this
>fall?
I have malted a few batches of ordinary 6-row feed barley. I envy you your
uniform, plump 2-row. Nonetheless, I had good luck with a great malty
aroma and flavor in my Classic American Pilsner that I made from it. Your
prodedure is very similar to mine up to the drying stage. I wonder if your
drying method may have exposed the malt to too high a temperature and
degraded the enzymes. I know that they are very heat sensitive when wet.
Maybe the oven was really hotter than 135F? I think also that a kilning
step would produce a maltier aroma and taste. It did for me.
I dry my malt in the clothes dryer tied up *SECURELY* in a strong cloth
bag. I did it once in an old pillow case and the seam opened up just a 1/2
inch or so - enough to spill out a pond or two of malt during the drying
process. I lost spousal approval points on that, especially since she was
rather skeptical beforehand anyway. It makes a terrible racket, but it
dries the malt nicely and removes the rootlets so they can be sifted out
later using the drying/kilning screen. A strange thing happened during
drying the last time. I got a kind of varhish on the interior of the dryer
and on the bag. I think it was rootlet juices that oozed out of the bag
when the rootlets were crushed in the tumbling, which then dried in a
shiney coating on the dryer drum.
After drying, I kilned the malt, ending with a temperature of 195F, which,
according to an article I read somewhere (Z?) would give a Dortmunder malt
color. I wanted a bit of color since I was brewing a Classic
(post-prohibition) American Pilsner with 22% corn, and wanted some color.
I got about 26 ppg; usually I get about 32 with 22% corn, which has a
higher yield than malt, so obviously I am not as efficient a maltster as
Briess.
Good luck
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:43:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "MASSIMO FARAGGI" <maxfarag@hotmail.com>
Subject: Wyeast Scottish, smoke, Barleywine /Belgian Ale recipe
Hi Al(l),
I was about to post this privately to Al K who was interested in the subject
"Wyeast 1728 AND smoke", but as I see some recent posts about Barleywine yeasts
and an info request about Wyeast Scottish #1728 I hope this could be of some
interest.
I tasted recently my barleywine which I brewed in November with this yeast. I
couldn't detect any smokey flavour. It is a strong and flavourful brew so it
could be more difficult to detect than in a "cleaner" beer. As I ferment at
warm temperatures, maybe the key to smokey flavour is areation as somebody
(Al?) suggested, or some other factor.
The beer was about 1098 OG.:Malt Extract, 12% Crystal, just a little
sugar+honey; N.Brewer and Goldings hops to about 60 BU.
Areation was only by stirring and rousing. Pitched directly on the yeast cake
of a previous 1060 beer. Fermentation at about 69-70F was very fast, in 2-3
days was almost finished to 1022.
(Too fast, too warm? Is "self-heating" due to fermentation important also when
brewing small - 2,5Gal. - batches with higher Surface/Volume ratios?)
Bottled after 8 days; aging in bottles at 50F (first week at 70F).
Tasted after 2,5 months the beer is good (maybe not "great") IMHO, some
slightly.. "harsch" - don't know the right english word - taste but already
better than 1 month ago so I think it's improving with age; it's strong but
balanced. And, to my surprise, it's perfectly (for the style) carbonated
naturally; I just primed it the usual way, no Krausen nor force-carbonation.
Apart from smokiness/no-smokiness, I liked this yeast (my first and only liquid
up to now) and I am trying also other methods to stretch its use; I saved some
from the first brew in a mason jar and in bottles and made two other
scotch-style beer (still to taste, but no smoke I think). The Biere de Garde
(first brew with this yeast) has some fruity flavours (my wife which has a
better nose than mine said "framboise" - no banana).
- ---------------------------------------
I read in #2339 that B. Roullett (aka Badger) was interested in extract
recipes for belgian ales. I am also interested in that, I was tempted to try
something close to a Rochefort 10 (or 8), so maybe suggestions could be posted
to the digest if you think this subject could be of some general interest.
Right about Rochefort 10, is it possible, as I read, that such a dark ale is
made just by Munich and/or Vienna malts + dark candy sugars? Could I add some
chocolate malt also, (I use light malt extraxt) or would it be out-of-style?
TIA & Cheers
Massimo Faraggi GENOVA - ITALY
maxfarag@hotmail.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------
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- ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:41:59 -0500
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan@bmd.cpii.com>
Subject: Canning wort
>Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no known
>pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're canning wort is to
>cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If the yeast does its thing and beer
>is made, wouldn't that kill any botulism baddies?
>
Wort is not beer, the pH is higher, and the alcohol is lower. The problem
with botulism is not the bacteria themselves, but the toxins they produce.
However, I thought that boiling destroyed the botulism toxins, so maybe if
you boiled and cooled your canned wort just before using it in a starter you
would be OK.
Bob
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob McCowan
ATG/Receiver-Protector voice: (508)-922-6000 x208
CPI BMD fax: (508)-922-8914
Beverly, MA 01915 e-mail: bob.mccowan@bmd.cpii.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 7:03:16 -0700 (MST)
From: CHUCK HUDSON HOMEBREW HAVEN <CHUDSON@mozart.unm.edu>
Subject: Pro/Am Homebrew beer tasting
Morning folks; On May 3 1997 Homebrew Haven and The Albuquerque Press Club is
holding a Beer tasting and contest. This is open to all homebrewers and Micro
brews for more info please give me a ring at 505-352-9635 or e-mail me at
chudson @ mozart.unm.edu. Our address is 5300 Sequoia Rd. NW Ste D Albuquerque
NM 87120. I will post more info as it becomes available.
Thanks
Chuck Hudson
Owner and Head Brewer at:
Homebrew Haven
Hombrew supplies and Brew on Premise
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 01:49:40 -0600
From: Cuchulain Libby <hogan@connecti.com>
Subject: Barleywine
Greetings All,
I recently bought a second secondary and was considering brewing a BW.
I use a 5gal Gott and am wondering if anyone has any experience mashing
in serial? I figure I can comfortably mash 11.5# at a time. Perhaps do a
3gal no sparge the first time, then sparge the second for a total of
~6.5gals. Is there any danger to letting the first batch sit around
while the second mashes?
Cogitatingly Yours,
Cuchulain
------------------------------
Date: 07 Feb 97 09:34:51 EST
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Priming, flatulence
Brewsters:
Daniel Louis Lanicek has a problem with carbonation
1) Usually this problem arises when the beer has cleared in the secondary and/or
the yeast have gone dormant.
Solution: make up a priming (or kraeusen) starter, about 12 hours before the
bottling, from the yeast on the bottom of the secondary by siphoning a small
quantity from the bottom. Bottle when you see foam on the starter. I usually
make up the starter from extract and including my priming sugar to make sure the
yeast is acclimated, but if that worries you, mix the priming sugar in later.
2) Temperature can be a problem, especialy with ale yeasts. To find out, put a
thermometer into a beer bottle with water in it, in the same place as your
storage area for carbonation. You will probably be surprised. Ale yeasts don't
like it below about 65F when carbonating. Most floors are much cooler, despite
what the shoulder height temperature is.
3) If UNDERcarbonation is a problem,then increasing the sugar to as much as 10
Oz per 5 gallon batch may be just what you need. I use this amount for most of
my bottled beers. Try it, you may like it. You may produce some "out-of-style"
beers this way, but if you like it, hey, how many times have the beer police
from the BJCP shown up at your house? I have used 10 oz per 5 gallons for
decades and find it to be appropriate for many beers and conversely have found
the 4 oz/5 gallon I find recommended here and elsewhere to be inappropriately
low.
4) To rescue UNDERcarbonated beers, cool them down to as cold as possible, take
out some beer and add the krausen starter plus additional priming sugar and
recap. Put in a warm area for two weeks.
5) To rescue UNcarbonated beers, first I would just move them to a warmer spot
and see if that helps. If not see 4).
6)Candidates for 4) would include beers that have been primed for more than a
month and shown no change, even at warmer temperatures.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
As far as homebrew putting more wind in your sails or elsewhere goes, I doubt if
it is the yeast fermenting in your gut that causes it. If the yeast couldn't
ferment the sugars in your beer why would it do it in your gut? Yes, it is
true that enzymes in your digestive system can break these down. It is probably
true that homebrew has a higher unfermentable sugar and protein content than
commercial beer. Fermentation of this by adapted, resident flora and fauna in
the gut, just like bean carbohydrates and proteins or meat residue following
excessive meat consumption, produces this flatulence.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
On *that* note....
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202@compuserve.com
Voice e-mail OK
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 09:45:16 UT
From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON@msn.com>
Subject: Pumpkin Beer
HBDers -
I am studying up on pumpkin beers and would like some advice from those that
have brewed such beasts.
I am intent on using canned pumpkin pack. Most receipes call for using this
in the mash, and then laudering normally. I was wondering, do you really need
to add the pumpkin to the mash? Are there a significant number of starches in
the pumkin pack?
Here's my plan to date: I will add one can of pumpkin pack during the mash,
and sparge/lauder/boil/ferment normally. Nearing the end of the secondary
fermentation, I want to give the beer a pumpkin aroma/flavor boost, so I will
mash another can of pumpkin pack with either enzyme powder or a bag of Klages,
remove the grains (if used), boil, cool and then add to the finishing
secondary. (If there are no signifiant starches in the pumpkin pack, I will
simply omit the mashing process).
Any comments on this procedure from those that have dared to brew with the
giant squash?
TIA,
Chas Peterson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 09:36:19 UT
From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON@msn.com>
Subject: Strawberry Beer
HBDers-
This is an email for Charlie Burns (Charlie -- I know you requested private
email, but I deleted the HBD issue, forgetting to write down your email
address).
Regarding your low FG on your strawberry ale, I had a similar expericence with
one a few years ago. It finished at 0.999 after I added the berries to the
secondary. My guess is that you'll get more water out of the berries than
sugar. This is what I think dropped my SG so low. But I did not get the
volcanic fermentation you'd expect from adding fruit to beer in the secondary
(these volcanic reactions I have had with other berries such as raspberry and
blackberry).
>From my experience, I think the low gravity will actually help you a bit.
Strawberries have a very delicate flavor in beer; a higher finishing OG would
probably mask that wonderful sweet/sour flavor they bring, not to mention
their aroma.
I ended up adding some lactose to my strawberry beer for body and it was still
a bit to thin for my taste. I'd suggest adding some malto-dextrin or lactose
to your beer as well, maybe up to a pound per 5 Gals. And don't forget to age
that sucker -- at least 8 mos IMHO. I found that strawberries have a somewhat
rough character in the early stages of bottle conditioning, but smooths after
6 mos or so. [FWIW, the strawberry beer I mentioned did very well in the '96
AHA NHC -- you can find its recipe in the 96 Zymurgy special issue.]
a data point from one berry lover to another,
Chas Peterson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:38:38 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: "dropping" and British ales (and FWH)
In Homebrew Digest #2338 Charles Epp <chuckepp@ukans.edu> asked about
"dropped" beers:
>how do these beers fare over the long haul -- do they degrade
>more rapidly than non-dropped beers due to the infusion of oxygen? I
>guess another question is whether others of you have tried this -- if
>you have, how did you like the results, both short-term and long-term?
Dropping has become SOP for me with my stock bitter. It produces different
results with different yeasts. An additional advantage to dropping is that
the bottom crop of yeast from the second fermenter is really clean. My
standard yeast, more or less, is NCYC 1187 (YCKCo A10), which is a very
flocculant yeast, but I have done it with several YeastLab yeasts. 1187
seems to produce more fruity esters with dropping. Ringwood (YL A06?), a
top cropper, produces even more diacetyl than otherwise, but seems to
really benefit given its high O2 needs.
I have kept dropped beers many months with absolutely no trouble. I think
that if you drop the beers at high kraeusen, the yeast will assimilate all
of the O2 with no detrimental effects to the beer.
BTW, another "new" procedure that has become SOP for me with British ales,
where it is not traditional, is first wort hopping (FWH). This works
beautifully with East Kent Goldings. I even did it with Columbus hops in
an American variation of the bitter, where the FWH was also all of my
bittering hops. That is, I added the Columbus to the first wort, and added
no additional hops for bitterness per se, since Columbus has such high
alpha acid. Ordinarily, one would FWH only with the best finishing quality
hops, but this worked fine. The hop flavor is great.
Jeff
-=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:04:57 -0500 (EST)
From: MaltyDog@aol.com
Subject: Beer Yeast Bread
Here's a question out of left field, but one that might provide some
interesting posts:
Anyone out there ever use Beer Yeast (ale or lager) for breadmaking? What
kind of yeast? What kind of bread? What sort of quantity do you need for a
loaf of bread?
Just wondering,
Bill Coleman
MaltyDog@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:05:50 EST
From: shaladawn@juno.com (JOSEPH J DILLON)
Subject: RESTORING EXTERIOR OF CORNY KEGS
I HAVE OBSERVED A LOT OF GOOD INFO CONCERNING THE CLEANING THE INTERIOR
OF CORNY KEGS; HOWEVER I WOULD LIKE TO RESTORE THE
EXTERIOR OF MY KEGS AND MAKE THEM A LITTLE MORE AESTHETICALLY
PLEASING. I'VE TRIED BRASSO, STAINLESS STEEL, AND EVEN A WIRE BRUSH
ON A DRILL- TO NO AVAIL.
ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS IN ADVANCE.
JOE DILLON
SHALADAWN FARM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:13:05 -0600
From: blacksab@midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Subject: mash tuns/British pale ale malt
Tom Neary asks about the relative advantages/disadvantages of using a false
bottom or a manifold in a non-recirculating mash tun.
If you're not going to recirculate, you really HAVE to use some sort of
manifold--a false bottom will cause scorching of the wort beneath it.
Remember, it will be the heaviest portion of the sweet wort that will tend
to collect below the false bottom, so aside from scorching the wort, you'll
kill most of the enzymes too. I'm a big fan of the EasyMasher, but others
prefer manifolds. Take a look at Scott Kaczorowski's web page for a nice set
of instructions on building a manifold (http://users.deltanet.com/~kacz).
Mike Marshburn asks about British Pale Ale malt. Hugh Bairds is another that
I believe uses Maris Otter, and I've noticed a big difference in flavor
between that and the Munton and Fison Pale Ale malt. Taste the two malt
kernels side by side and you'll taste the difference.
Hope this helps,
Harlan
*********************************************************************
* *
* Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can *
* Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. *
* <blacksab@midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman *
* *
*********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:29:42 +0000
From: "Paul Kensler" <pkensler@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: canning wort
Hal Davis asked about canned wort...
Hal,
I looked into this botulism issue a few months ago, and here's the
short version of what I found out: Botulism is not a problem with
fermenting beer because the yeast quickly create an environment
unsuitable for the botulism bacteria (yeast being more prolific).
Botulism bacteria cannot survive in an acidic environment (like
beer), but can reproduce in unfermented wort. Also, the danger with
botulism is not the bacteria themselves, but their by-product wastes,
which are poisonous. So, once the poisons have been created, boiling
won't solve the problem. Apparently, boiling can kill the bacteria,
but cannot kill the spores that the bacteria use to reproduce.
Any biologists out there that can confirm or expand on this?
See you at the next NTHBA Hal,
Paul Kensler
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:29:26 -0500 (EST)
From: David Hammond <hammer@nexen.com>
Subject: Re: canning wort
In a previous post:
>
> A more important caveat is that YOU CANNOT SAFELY CAN WORT
> IN A BOILING WATER BATH.
>
Hal Davis <davis@planolaw.com> wrote:
>
> Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no
> known pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're
> canning wort is to cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If
> the yeast does its thing and beer is made, wouldn't that kill
> any botulism baddies?
>
Note: I am not a toxicologist. The following is merely
speculation about what I think is the difference.
When you brew wort to make beer, you heat to boiling, cool to
pitch, then pitch. Any contaminating bacteria and spores don't
have a chance to get going before the yeast take over and ferment
the wort. The environment becomes unsuitable for the bad guys
to do what they do, so they don't.
When you brew wort to store as a future yeast starter medium,
you heat to boiling, cool, then refrigerate. If you did not
boil the wort under pressure, you were unable to achieve a high
enough temperature to kill certain spores, and they will simply
go dormant in the wort in your refrigerator.
When it is time to use the boiled, bottled wort, you take it
out of the fridge and allow it to come to room temperature.
In this time, the spores become active and begin doing what
it is spores do, mainly multiply and produce byproducts during
that process; botulism toxins in the case of the spores re-
sponsible for botulism.
By the time you pitch the yeast, the damage has been done.
When you're making beer, it was not allowed to happen in the
first place.
Just my best guess.
Dave
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2341, 02/09/97
*************************************
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