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HOMEBREW Digest #2342
HOMEBREW Digest #2342 Mon 10 February 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@brew.oeonline.com
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Re: Flood water analysishomebrew@brew.oeonline.com (Energo Ed)
root beer (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
Witbier (Kit Anderson)
HSA on lautering (Neil Kirk)
Wort Dilution Table (Oliver Weatherbee)
Re: Botulism (HBD 2339) ("John R. Bowen")
scrubbing O2 from kegs (Jeff Sturman)
Does the amount of yeast pitched effect the apparent attenuation? (Philip DiFalco)
Carbonating soda (Charles Rich)
Comps and Bottle types, Mass botteling for wedding (Nathan Moore)
Heiniken - in brown? (SW) Moore" <moorere@nassau.navy.mil>
YL W51 Question (Doug Otto)
Botulism in canned wort (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Extract/partial Belgain Abbey (Kenneth D Boivin)
Lallemand yeast/ASBC Hop analysis (Daniel S. McConnell/DSMBook)
Gap in SS false bottom & outcome (Jim Elden)
When to rack? (David Root)
Gelatin/bottling (mike maag)
Sorry to spam (but THIS is IMPORTANT!!!) (Jim Klett)
Sanke kegs ("Michael T. Bell")
Previous Results; Lack of Skunk (DENNIS WALTMAN)
Botulism (Katy or Delano DuGarm)
Just another recipe (Charles Burns)
IBU calculation for dry-hopping (Heiner Lieth)
The New & Much-Improved HBD (KennyEddy)
priming (Poris)
Home-made EM ("Michael T. Bell")
False Bottoms/Wit/Botulism (A. J. deLange)
White Labs Yeast Test Results (P. Edwards)
Classic Beer Styles Series: Brown Ale (John A. Carlson, Jr.)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:49:25 -0500 (EST)
From: energo@fwai.org (Energo Ed)
Subject: Re: Flood water analysishomebrew@brew.oeonline.com
>Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:18:37 -0800
>From: smurman@best.com
>Subject: Flood water analysis
>
>
>Does anyone living in Northern California have any idea what our water
>looks like these days, since we've had so much flooding? A friend of
>mine who has a big aquarium setup, said that he suspected that they
>had added a lot of chlorine to compensate. I'm planning on mashing
>some pale ale malt this weekend, and I'm not sure what water treatment
>to perform.
>
>SM
To get rid of chlorine boil the water or let the water sit out for a day.
Energo Ed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:58:47 -0500
From: gmoore@wacko.East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
Subject: root beer
Any recipes for root beer out there? I checked the cat's meow, and they
all (both) use yeast to carbonate. If I force carbonate, do I need
as much sugar?
Any recipes/pointers to recipes appreciated.
TIA
Greg
gmoore@wacko.east.sun.com
\\|//
(o o)
=========oOO==(_)==OOo=========== Please sir, may I have some more?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:06:50 -0500
From: Kit Anderson <kit@maine.com>
Subject: Witbier
Jim Busch quipped;
>Kit Anderson notes using flaked wheat for a witbier:
>
><I'm sure this is a good beer but it will be truer to style substituting
><flaked wheat for the malted wheat.
>
>Why stop there? Use raw wheat for real authenticity.
Because grining hard red winter wheat is a real pain. Then you have to
gelatinize the starch. Flaked wheat is unmalted, pregelatinized, and won't
turn into cement when sparging. Plus, it tastes the same. (To me, anyway.)
The only reason I would grind raw wheat is to burn out the motor on my
Craftsman 1/2" drill so I could return it for a new one. But I'm not that type.
- ---
Kit Anderson "Welcome to Northeast Texas-
Bath, Maine a survival guide for Texans in New England"
http://members.aol.com/garhow1/kit/index.htm
Maine Beer Page http://www.maine.com/brew
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:13:30 GMT
From: Neil Kirk <nek@sputnik.wsatkins.co.uk>
Subject: HSA on lautering
Hi Guys
A few weeks ago I posted something on aeration and FG, and was re-educated
on HSA. Thanks to all who showed me the error of my ways; now I've made
myself an immersion chiller (100C to 25C in 25 min) and am paranoid
about HSA (slightly preferable to AR?).
So the questions are: what about HSA when running off from the mash tun?
Does it cause oxidation? Does it matter? How do we avoid it?
Yours, in a state of paranoia.
Neil Kirk
Bristol, England
nekirk@wsatkins.co.uk
voice e-mail OK
PS. For those that need to know:
White Shield is a bottle conditioned ale still brewed in the UK.
White Label is a low alcohol (1% abv?) liquid, sold as a beer,
but not worthy of the name. To our shame it is also made in the UK.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:10:35 -0500
From: oliver@triton.cms.udel.edu (Oliver Weatherbee)
Subject: Wort Dilution Table
After using other peoples equations with limited success, I finally
took published numbers and some of my own experimental results and put
together the Wort Dilution Table. Since I do partial wort boils and
want to hit specific starting gravities, I use this table to tell
me how much make-up water to add to my primary to get my desired
gravity. Usually, because of density gradients between wort and water,
it is almost impossible to get an accurate gravity measurement once
water is added. But from my experiments, this table is accurate
enough to use without any further gravity readings.
It is available at our clubs website (URL in my .sig below) in the
Brew Tips section. It is an html table which can be printed directly
but quattro and excel versions are also available to download.
I would be interested in other people giving it a try and letting
me know how well it works for them.
Prost.
- --
__________________________________________________________________
Oliver Weatherbee oliver@triton.cms.udel.edu
First State Brewers
http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/firststate.html
__________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:15:53 +0000
From: "John R. Bowen" <jbowen@primary.net>
Subject: Re: Botulism (HBD 2339)
Hal Davis writes:
>A more important caveat is that YOU CANNOT SAFELY CAN WORT
> IN A BOILING WATER BATH.
The risk of botulism was mentioned.
Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no known
pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're canning wort
is to
cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If the yeast does its thing
and beer
is made, wouldn't that kill any botulism baddies?
Hal, I expect you will get a more authoritive response from someone
else, but this is important. As understand it, it is the botulism
toxin produced by the bacteria, not necessarily the bacteria itself,
that is deadly. Fermentation may or may not kill the bacteria, but it
will NOT destroy the toxin carried over from the starter, and a little
bit goes a long way!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:07:48 -0700
From: brewshop@coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
Subject: scrubbing O2 from kegs
I recently spent some time at a Wyoming brewpub talking with the head
brewer and I was present when he was filling some 1/2 bbl Hoff-Stevens type
kegs. I was horrified to see that he wasn't purging the kegs with CO2
before filling them. What he did was fill the kegs and then shoot some CO2
through the diptube in the keg so the CO2 entered at the bottom of the keg
and bubbled up through the beer. He said this would scrub most of the O2
out of the beer, which means purging the keg with CO2 before filling was
not necessary. If this is true, would it also apply to home brew kegs?
This brewpub naturally conditions their beers in the kegs, ie, the beer is
practically flat when put into the kegs. So what say, is this guy a nut or
a genius?
jeff
casper, wy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 13:14:16 -0500
From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd@fanniemae.com>
Subject: Does the amount of yeast pitched effect the apparent attenuation?
FROM HBD #2339:
> There have been a few posts regarding what yeast to ferment barleywines with.
> I brewed a barleywine. OG was 1.095 and it was pitched with 1-2 cups of
> slurry recovered from a primary fermentation with Wyeast 1056. This finished
> at 1.024.... My experience is that 1056 works just fine in high gravity worts
> if sufficient yeast is pitched.
I thought that pitching sufficient yeast only effected the start of
fermentation (ie., a vigorous start with minimal delay).
Does the amount of yeast pitched also effect the apparent attenuation
(or final gravity of the beer)?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:04:18 -0800
From: Charles Rich <CharlesR@saros.com>
Subject: Carbonating soda
IN HBD 2339 "Brander Roullett (Volt Computer)" <a-branro@MICROSOFT.com>
>writes:
>
>>tentative procedure: dissolve in a 5 gal pot filled with water, the
>>Juice, and the honey. bring near boiling, and add ginger, fruit peels,
Sounds great but I wouldn't boil the honey or even come close to boiling
it if you want to preserve the fine honey flavor. Bring it to 145F and
hold for twenty to thirty mins to kill bacteria instead.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 11:37:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Nathan Moore <moorent@bechtel.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Comps and Bottle types, Mass botteling for wedding
Quick question. I want to enter a brew contest but I dont have
enough bottles that fit the guidlines. Has anyone ever tried transfering
a beer from one bottle to another? Does the carbonation/flavor hold up?
Or another posibility would be to color my clear bottle brown, any
suggestions. My bottles are all bottle conditioned.
TIA and private is fine.
Thanks for all the advise on mass botteling. Sugestions ranged
from "borrowing" a 1/2 barrel to using champagne bottle. The important
peice of info I recieved was NOT to use the wine bottles because they
might explode. I think I will go with the PET bottles because they will
alow me to brew a greater variety then kegging, I think I might even make
several 2.5 gal batches to improve my variety. I plan on using an
adaption of the PET keg system discribed in the library at The Brewery,
alpha.rollanet.org/library. I'm going to test this first but my idea is
to simply insert a hose through the bottom of the PET and use silicon to
seal it. The hose will be facing up and inserted about 1/2" so will limit
the amount of sediment disturbed. I will use a hose clamp on each hose to
seal. These "kegs" will hopefully work as well as the one described at
The Brewery. The great thing is it will hopefully only cost me about 60
cents a bottle and I will have about 50 mini "kegs" holing 25 gals of
beer. If I build a cheap wood case for no cost useing available scrap
wood, drill holes for the hoses, and make some nice labels declaring which
beer is which all my guests will see is a 50 tap beer bar and it will only
cost $30. I'll report the results after the wedding next year, I'm
satrting my planning early so I can test my ideas. If this works it could
be a good idea for other homebrew parties or clubs.
Nathan Moore
Denver, CO
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:32:41 +0100
From: "FCC(SW) Moore" <moorere@nassau.navy.mil>
Subject: Heiniken - in brown?
Perhaps I have missed something in my European travels/adventures over
the past two months, but every time I have seen Heiniken in bottles.....
they have been of a distinct green hue. This has been in Spain, France,
and Italy. I'll keep looking around, but the verdict seems to be - no
brown Heiny bottles.
Rich Moore
Sailing the Seven Seas in Search of Good Beer....
Interesting Saying of the Day:
The remarkable thing about Shakespeare is that he really is very good,
in spite of all the people who say he is very good.
Robert Graves
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:55:23 -0800
From: otto@alldata.com (Doug Otto)
Subject: YL W51 Question
I recently brewed an extract based bavarian weizen using the above
yeast. (only my fourth brew so be gentle)
I pitched the yeast at 65F and fermentation took place between 65F and
69F. I started noticing a hydrogen sulfide odor a day or two into the
cycle. Attributing the odor to the yeast, I continue the process and
racked into my secondary after about 5 days. After a week of
conditioning I bottled the brew. Last night I popped one open for
testing (after about a week) and there is still a hint of that "smell"
hanging around an otherwise pretty decent weizen. Is this something
that will condition out or should I dump it out and use the bottles for
something I can stand to bring under my nose.
Thanks in advance, oh wise ones.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Doug Otto otto@alldata.com
Alldata Corporation dotto@calweb.com
Technical Manager, Database Development (800) 829-8727 ext. 3137
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 12:51:51 CST
From: jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Botulism in canned wort
There have been some recent postings warning of the dangers of canning wort
because of botulism.
If the canned wort were infected by botulism would the cap remain sealed?
I thought tainted canned (tinned) goods would swell because of the infection
or is that a different infection than botulism?
It is my understanding, which could certainly be mistaken, that the toxins
produced by botulisms would not be eliminated by boiling even if the bacteria
were. However, wouldn't the bacteria have had to be active to produce the
toxins? Would this activity be apparent in any way, such as swelling of the
container or loosening of the cap of a mason jar?
Finally, is this a significant risk compared to other risks we face?
Like driving to work or even drinking beer in the first place? I am not
saying it is not but I feel that sometimes the level of risk is ignored when
perhaps it should be kept in perspective.
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins@imtn.dsccc.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:30:52 PST
From: kboivin@juno.com (Kenneth D Boivin)
Subject: Subject: Extract/partial Belgain Abbey
Brander Roullett asked about Belgain Abbey type ales and Belgain Candi
sugar.
I'm not sure if candi sugar is essential, however some type of sugar
seems important. I have used honey as a substitute. Brown sugar might
work as well.
I'm on to all-grain now, but here's a recipie I have tried and liked.
6.6 lbs x-light LME or 6 lbs x-light DME
1 lb 2-row pale toasted in the oven on a cookie sheet at 300 F for 10
min, crush and mash at 153 F for 45-60 min.
1 lb honey (or clear candi sugar or brown sugar).
1.5 oz. Hallertauer (60 min)
1 oz. Saaz (15 min)
Wyeast 1214 (Abbey) or you might try the Wyeast Belgain Strong Ale yeast.
Now a question.
I made a similar ale that has yet to clear after 6 weeks in the
secondary. The biggest difference is that I prepared a starter using
the dregs from a couple of bottles of Duvel. I pitched the Duvel starter
initially and after 3 days pitched Wyeast 1214 into the carbouy. OG
was 1.054, FG is 1.016. In an attempt to get the beer to clear, I placed
in the fridge at 33 F for 2 weeks. The top 2-3 inches fell clear, but
the rest remained cloudy. Pulled it out and left it an additional 2
weeks at 60 F. No change in clarity.
I'm inclined to bottle it as is. Taste seems reasonable, but it is the
haziest beer I've ever made. I've considered gelatin, but contamination
concerns me. Is it protien or is it yeast that is clouding my beer and
what,
if anything should I do about it? Any advice?
TIA
Ken
Concord, NH
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:12:42 -0500
From: danmcc@umich.edu (Daniel S. McConnell/DSMBook)
Subject: Lallemand yeast/ASBC Hop analysis
Hi All:
It's nice to see the HBD back.
>From: Rob Moline <brewer@kansas.net>
>
> I had discussed this with Gordon Specht of Lallemand, their agent in
>the U.S., and what I wanted was some esters from the ale yeast and the high
>alcohol tolerance of the Champagne yeast. And while there was a good result
>from this combination..I felt that it might be improved upon, and tried just
>the EC-1118 (Champers yeast). But it is now apparent to me that the EC-118
>in a malt wort eats only certain sugars and leaves the bulk of sugars behind.
I understand that K1 will also produce some nice ester congeners (I have
been recomending both of these strains for *legal* distillation of beverage
alcohol). You might consider Davis 512 (I think that is the number) or
some of the other strains that are of limited availability as well. I am
rather surprised that EC leaves the bulk of the sugars behind, but hey,
I'm learning too. Did Gordon mention which sugars EC won't use?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>From: "John Robinson" <robinson@novalis.ca>
>
>Can anyone email me the ASBC procedures for determining IBUs?
>I would like to pass this information on to a food analysis company
>in Toronto to see if they can conduct the test. Thanks.
These have been posted (1995, I think), but could use a little more
exposure. They are easy procedures if you have the right tools.
Hop bitterness in beer (ASBC Method)
[ ref : ASBC methods of Analysis, 8th Edition, 1992].
-Transfer 10.0 mL beer to a 50 mL centrifuge tube.
-add 50 uL octyl alcohol, 20 mL isooctane (HPLC grade) and 1 mL 3M HCl .
-shake vigorously for 15 minutes.
-centrifuge to separate the phases.
-read organic phase at 275 nm (1 cm cell) vs blank (20 mL isooctane, 50 uL
octyl alcohol).
Notes:
1) isooctane should have an Abs@275 <0.005.
2) readings should be done ASAP due to decomposiotin by UV light
BU= Abs @275*50
Example: Abs =0.622 0.622*50= 31.1 BU
=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Alpha and Beta acids in hops: ASBC MoA Method
(reference: ASBC MoA. 8th edition, 1992)
-place 5.000 +- .001 gr hops in an extraction bottle and add 100 mL toluene
-shake for 30 min with vigorous agitation
-let stand until clear or certrifuge (preferred)
Dilution A
-dilute 5.0 ml of this extract to 100 mL with methanol.
Dilution B.
-dilute an aliquot of the dilution A with alkalne methanol (0.2 mL 6M NaOH
per 100 mL MeOH) so that the Abs at 325 and 355 falls within the most
accurate range of the instrument.
-Immediatly read diluion B (1 cm) at 275, 325 and 355 vs a toluene blank
that was prepared and diluted in EXACTLY the same manner.
Calculations:
dilution factor, d= (volume dil A x volume dil B)/ (500 x aliq extract A
x aliq dil A)
% alpha acids= d x (-51.56 A355+ 73.79 A325-19.07 A275)
% beta acids= d x (55.57 A355-47.59 A325 + 5.10 A275)
Example:
5 gr hops extracted with 10 mL toluene
5 mL clear extract diluted ot 100 mL with methanol=Dilution A
3 mL Dilution A diluted to 50 mL with alkaline methanol
A355=0.615
A325= 0.596
A275=0.132
d = (100 x 50) / (500 x 5 x 3) = 0.667
alpha = 0.667 x [ -(51.56 x 0.615) + (73.79 x 0.596) - (19.07 x 0.132) = 6.5
beta = 0.667 x [ (55.57 x 0.615) - (47.59 x 0.596) + (5.10 x 0.132) = 4.3
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Alpha and Beta acids in hops by HPLC: ASBC MoA Method
(reference: ASBC MoA. 8th edition, 1992)
detector: capable of 314 nm
column: C18 (they recommend 250x4mm, 5 um ODS, RP18, Nucleosil-5)
Mobile phase: MeOH: H2O: HPO4 (85%) /85:17:0.25 (v/v)
Conditions: isocratic
Flow: 0.8 mL/min
Temp: ambiant
Sample: 10 uL
Method:
- add 20 mL MeOH to 10.0 gr finely ground hops
- add 100 mL diethyl ether- stopper and shake for 30 min.
- add 40 mL 0.1M HCl
- stopper and shake for 10 min.
- allow to stand for 10 min to separate the phases
- pipette 5.0 mL of the supernate to a 50 mL volumetric flask
- bring to volume (50 mL) with methanol
- filter before injecting (sample is stable 24 hours)
- calculate based on a known calibration standard as follows
Calculations:
Response Factor, RF= [mass of calib extr (gr) x conc of component in calib
extr (%)] / area.
Component %= (2 x average sample peak area of component x RF) / mass of sample
Typical Retention times:
cohumulone 16 min
n- + ad-humulone 19 min
colupulone 27 min
n- + adlupulone 34 min
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>From Jim Busch
>Coming February 14: St. Victorious Doppelbock!!
<Sigh> PA is such a long drive.......
DanMcC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:42:51 -0500
From: Jim Elden <elden@accumedic.com>
Subject: Gap in SS false bottom & outcome
Hello Brewers!
I'd like to start out by thanking everyone for the *numerous* responses
I got regarding the gap on the false bottom for my converted-keg
mashtun. Slitting a piece of tubing lengthwise and wrapping it around
the edge of the screen did the trick and narrows the gap sufficiently
so that no grain gets around it.
For what it's worth, the reason I have the gap in the first place is
that the supporting bolts are just below one of the ridges in the keg,
where the diameter is larger. Keep this in mind if you are converting
a keg yourself and plan on using a false bottom.
# # #
I had once considered using the EashMasher instead of a false bottom
but was told that it probably would restrict the flow too much in my
RIMS, so I dismissed the idea.
While at the homebrew store today, I had a conversation with someone
who uses TWO EasyMasher IIs on a tee fitting for his 3-tier system and
is very happy with it. Specifically, he mentioned high extraction
rates, no stuck mashes, no channelling, and, since there is no
space under a false bottom, increased system capacity. This all
sounded good but I told him that $33 apiece for 2 EMs was a bit more
than I wanted to spend, and he quickly pointed out to me that I could
buy just the the screen part of the EM II for $12 each and the
rest of the parts for about $7 at the plumbing supply. Sold!
My keg has a 12"x3/4" male NPT SS nipple welded into the side near the
bottom. The nipple extends to the center of the keg.
Parts:
2 EasyMasher II screens (that's the one about 8" long)
a few feet of 3/8" flexible copper tubing
3/4" female NPT by 1/2" sweat fitting
3" 1/2" copper pipe
1/2" sweat to 3/8" compression fitting
3/8" compression tee fitting
2 small SS hose clamps to attach the EM to the 3/8 copper
I am going to arrange the 2 EM screens so the layout could be described
as the number 11 inside a circle.
Brew Day is Sunday. I'll let you all know how it works next week.
And I'm still happy the problem with the screen is solved! Although,
provided the EM scheme works, I'm already thinking of recycling the
screen as a device to keep the hop leaves behind in my boil tun....
Cheers,
Jim Elden
Riptide Brewery
Long Beach NY
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 19:27:14 -0500
From: David Root <droot@concentric.net>
Subject: When to rack?
I made an extract batch for the yeast. I screwed up.
First I made a starter form Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager. One Pint, then 2 Liters
Then I made a batch of "Dortmund Export" using extracts, and some grain.
The Plan was to make a 5 gallon batch for the yeast to make a 10
gallon batch
of Bock. SO I made the 5 gallon extract batch using whole hops. I did not
realize that
I could not separate the hops and Hot break from the wort. SO dumped the
whole thing
into the fermenter (after cooling properly), added enough water to bring up
to 6 gal.
The Question is when do I rack? I wanted to brew the extract beer to get
enough yeast for
a large batch of Bock, or more likely Slader Creek Ocktoberfest. The hot
break, cold break
and hops are in the primary right now. This is my first Lager. I pitched
at 65 f. When
the airlock was bubbling at a good clip (8 hours later) I put the fermenter
in my basement
that is about 55 f. Do I rack after one day (that would be Saturday
Morning), or wait a
week and rack as usual. I brewed this beer for the yeast as much as the beer.
I usually brew all grain. I made this batch because it is too cold outside
to brew, and I
wanted a big starter for my bock Or ocktoberfest.
t is a god time to lager in this part of the country, so I want to
do what is best.
Private Email or post to digest. I will post a summary if I get many responses.
Glad to have the digest back, I've learned a lot, and my beer has
improved Immensely
David Root Lockport NY droot@concentric.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 17:28:45 -0700
From: mike maag <maagm@rica.net>
Subject: Gelatin/bottling
I have used gelatin to clear beer before kegging and force carbonating.
If I use gelatin then bottle, will enough yeast be left for good carbonation ?
TIA, Mike.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 18:54:39 +0000
From: Jim Klett <tgc@execpc.com>
Subject: Sorry to spam (but THIS is IMPORTANT!!!)
Subject: FW: FCC Billing Plans for Net Use: E-mail FCC by 2/13/97
I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter
currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has
filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your
internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the
operation of the telephone network.
It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were
required to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an
email box for your comments, responses must be received by February
13, 1997. Send your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you
think.
Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak
it in just under the wire for litigation. Let everyone you know hear
about this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of.
isp@fcc.gov
Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all
our voices may be heard!
- --
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:59:15 -0600
From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb@flash.net>
Subject: Sanke kegs
Glad to see the HBD back in good form. This is my first post in a
long......long.....long time. He she goes:
After scraping any ideas of using my first choice of fermenters(15gal
poly. conical piece of crap I purchased for a ridiculous price), I have
purchased a couple of Sanke type kegs. I seem to remember somewhere in the
HBD (old?...new?) seeing an article on converting these kegs to fermenters.
I see no real challenge except for dealing with the dip tube. How does one
remove this thing?
It seems the new HBD has brought with it some old spectres. While I
admire the knowledge that each has gathered from many brewing experiences
(I have used the information to greatly improve my beers) it is not
pleasant to watch a standstill that has nothing to do with brewing. Most
of us would like to attend a brewing session with Fritz Maytag or Jim Koch,
not a mud wrestling death match involving the two. Stop it now.
Michael T. Bell
Boomer Dog Brewing
Arlington, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:44:01 -0500
From: DENNIS WALTMAN <PDWALTMAN@sablaw.com>
Subject: Previous Results; Lack of Skunk
I asked a question before on a beer with an accidental long rest at
140 F (90 minutes), before a 158 F rest at 30 minutes. I got many
well reasoned replies, which split roughly 50/50 on either I'd have a
very dry beer because the beta ate the starch, to I'd have a high
final gravity [1.020 to 1.025] because the beta didn't get a chance to
work on the products of the 158 F rest. There was a portion of the
"dry" beer faction who felt there would still be enough dextrins from
the 2.5# of crystal, though some were surprised at the quantity of
crystal used.
Well the fermentation started slow because I had a much too small a
starter and I suspect the 50 F fementation temp was a little low to
start even a lager (Wyeast Bavarian lager yeast). It has been
transfered to a secondary and at transfer the gravity was at 1.020.
If my extract/specialty grains experience means anything in an
all-grain decotion lager, I'd guess the beer is on track to a
1.014-1.016 final gravity. It could be since I was doubting
thermometers, that the temp could have been a tad less than 140F
(though I thought it more likely they were a tad more); would that
explain this? I'll let you know what happens when I bottle in a
couple months [my brew/bottling partner leaves for Chicago Cubs
spring training in two weeks; any Tempe/Mesa, AZ area brew-pubs I
should suggest to him].
***********************
On the skunked beer thread:
I don't ever recall tasting a skunked Corona [yes, I admit it; I drink
Corona when others pay for it]. That is a beer that I would think
could not hide the skunk in its flavor. My recollection is that
Corona uses clear or nearly clear bottles. I don't recall a skunked
stout either, even though I've had those in clear bottles as well.
Is it possible that certain hop varieties skunk more than others?
I've brewed outside in bright sunlight and poured cooled wort into the
carboy outside, and shook to aerate, also outside in the sun (before I
knew better) and the beer didn't skunk. It was all Cascade hops.
Or that the skunking comes from the late-addition hops, rather than
the bittering hops? If so, perhaps a reason to dry-hop or first wort
hop.
Dennis Waltman
pdwaltman@sablaw.com
Sutherland, Asbill, & Brennan, LLP
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 22:51:25 -0500
From: Katy or Delano DuGarm <dugarm@mnsinc.com>
Subject: Botulism
Hal Davis writes:
>Just pondering here. I've heard it oft-said that there are no known
>pathogens in beer. Supposing that the only reason you're canning wort is to
>cultivate a yeast starter to make beer. If the yeast does its thing and beer
>is made, wouldn't that kill any botulism baddies?
I've always wondered about Papazian's claim. _No_ pathogens? In any case,
yeast would not denature the botulism toxin. It would still make you stop
breathing.
Delano DuGarm
Arlington, Virginia
dugarm@mnsinc.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 22:25 PST
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Just another recipe
Just wanted to share one of my favorites. This originated as an extract
clone of Sam Adams Honey Porter. I converted to all-grain and am on my third
version. DJ is my grandson:
==============================================================================
DJ's Honey Porter III (courtesy of SUDSW)
Category : Robust Porter
Method : Full Mash
Starting Gravity : 1.070
Ending Gravity : 1.016
Alcohol content : 6.4%
Recipe Makes : 5.0 gallons
Total Grain : 13.50 lbs.
Color (srm) :128.4
Hop IBUs : 43.3
Malts/Sugars:
0.50 lb. Black Patent
0.75 lb. Chocolate
1.25 lb. Crystal 80L
9.00 lb. Pale Ale
0.50 lb. Malted Wheat
1.50 lb. Honey
Hops:
0.50 oz. Fuggles 4.5% 10 min
0.50 oz. Fuggles 4.5% 30 min
0.50 oz. Kent-Goldings 4.9% 3 min
1.00 oz. Perles 5.0% 60 min
0.50 oz. Cluster 6.8% 60 min
Wyeast Scottish Ale - 1 quart starter
All hops are pellets
Boil temperature of water: 210F
Grain Starting Temperature: 65F
Desired Grain/Water Ratio: 1.25 quarts/pound
Strike Water: 4.22 gallons of water at 172F
First Mash Temperature: 155F
Charley
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:48:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Heiner Lieth <lieth@telis.org>
Subject: IBU calculation for dry-hopping
Can anyone tell me how to figure dry-hops (in the secondary fermenter) into
the IBU calculation?
Heiner Lieth.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:27:19 -0500 (EST)
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: The New & Much-Improved HBD
At the risk of piling praise upon accolade, I hereby offer my hearty thanks
to Pat, Karl, and the masses behind the Ressurrection of the HBD.
You just GOTTA visit the HBD Ressurection Page at
http://brew.oeonline.com
Interesting chronology of events leading up to today's HBD. You will gain a
much better understanding of what it obviously took to bring you the HBD in
its present format, and the complete archives and search engine reside there
as well should you want "back issues".
Well done, boys.
*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:57:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Poris@aol.com
Subject: priming
I have a novice question that I cannot find an answer to. To avoid using
sugar for priming (for authenticity or taste reasons) it has been suggested
that a new wort be made up to add to the fully fermented wort before
bottling. This provides the fermentable sugars to increase the CO2 level to
the desired quantity in the bottle or keg. If you are not making another
batch right away this seems impractical, or alot of extra work. Is it
possible to hold back some of the original wort before the yeast is added,
and then add this back when priming? I guess you can use the change in
specific gravity of the primary and secondary fermentations to estimate the
amount of fermentable sugars and hence the quantity of CO2 that the
particular wort will provide and adjust the amount of added unfermented wort.
If so, would refrigeration be adequate to prevent spoilage or wild
fermentation? Would freezing this liquid be better? Thanks to the people
who maintain this list and thanks in advance for your answers.
Jaime
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 07:26:29 -0600
From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb@flash.net>
Subject: Home-made EM
I've seen so much talk on these home-made Easy-Mashers that I thought
I would give it a try. Since I've never even seen a real EM in action, I
have some quick questions for the learned:
1. How far from the bottom of the kettle do you position the EM?
2. Do you use a "frame" or ribbing to keep grain from collapsing
in on
the EM?
3. How much area is required?
This will be going into a 1/2 inch nipple on a converted keg set-up.
TIA
Michael T. Bell
Boomerdog Brewing
Arlington, TX
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:24:05 -0500
From: ajdel@mindspring.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: False Bottoms/Wit/Botulism
Tom Neary seeks comments on false bottoms in mash tuns. His post mentions
that direct heat applied beneath a false bottom doesn't circulate very well
through the rest of the mash (this is not a problem with false bottoms in
kettles where as the wort is thinner and the agitation more violent). The
other problem with false bottoms is that lots of stuff works its way
through during the stirring
which is required to keep temperature evenly distrinuted even if a pump is
used. This results in a bit of a problem with crud in the vorlauf (whether
this is recirulated manually or with a pump) leading to longer lauter times
and sensitivity to mechanical motion of the mash lauter tun. I know people
who mash with false bottoms (using pumps) with success but I have given it
up. I still lauter/sparge with a false bottom but do it in a separate
vessel. Using this scheme I can fill the lauter tun to just above the
screen with foundation water and "float" the mash on top of this. Lauter is
quick but the penalties are 1) another vessel and a place to put it 2)
additional exposure of the mash to air during transfer (I use a pitcher -
not a pump).
Douglas J. LeCureaux asked about orange peel in wit. To start with, orange
peel in a wit is kind of similar to the violas in an orchestra: you don't
really notice them unless they are missing. Thus the amount of orange peel
isn't critical. I use a little over an ounce per 5 gallons (4 oz in a 16-17
gal batch). Coriander is different. Not all coriander is of the same
freshness and flavor potency. On top of that the amount used is a matter of
taste. I figure if you are going to mess with the stuff at all you might as
well be able to taste it and use a bit over an ounce per 5 gallons (4 Oz in
a 16 - 17) gallon batch. Try to get fresh, whole seeds, crack them just
before use and dump them in at knock-out. PS: HBD security policy does not
require paragraph marking.
Hal Davis asks about botulism in canned wort. Botulism spores are awfully
durable and require extended periods (tens of minutes) of exposure to moist
heat for destruction. On the other hand their toxin is easily denatured by
a few (ten I think) minutes exposure to a more modest temperature (80C) so
if you are concerned that your canned wort contains botulinus toxin, heat
it to 80 or above for a few minutes (put the jars back in a boiling water
bath) just before use. Another approach would be to acidify the wort to pH
< 4 before canning. This will prevent the bacterium from growing (it's why
tomatoes don't need pressure canning) and the future yeast occupants should
love it.
A. J. deLange
- Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.
Please Note New e-mail Address
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:29:53 -0500
From: pedwards@iquest.net (P. Edwards)
Subject: White Labs Yeast Test Results
(I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but given its
contents, I think you'll find reading it worth your time.)
Many of you faithful HBD readers may recall that I posted some words of
skepticism regarding White Labs Pitchable Yeast. Specifically, I questioned
their claim (relayed to me by a local purveyor of the product) that they
packed in excess of 250 billion cells in each 50 ml vial. Their literature
varies - the info sheet I saw gives a range of up to 500 billion cells.
White Labs claims that one vial of the yeast was sufficient to pitch
directly into five gallons of wort. The vials I saw caused me to doubt
that claims, based on my experince and some reading I've done. I did a
little asking around about cell density, since I'm not a microbiologist. I
am. however, an engineer with over twenty years experience, and have seen
questionable data on more than one occassion.
The answers I received from multiple, independent, knowledegeable sources
caused me to further doubt White Labs' figures. To wit, using the
information I had received, I figured that White Labs was _way_ off with
the cell count. Still, I had no concrete evidence. Via private e-mail, Jim
Liddil offered to do a cell count and to check viability on some samples of
White Labs, if I could send him some. Hot Damn, let's test the stuff! Like
they say, one
test is worth a thousand predictions.
So, I obtained some samples of White Labs Yeast from another HB supplier.
These were received via FedEx on 1/31/97, and were represented to me to be fresh
samples from that week's production. I selected two samples, one English
Ale and one California Ale. I packed these two vials along with a cold
pack, and shipped the package to Jim via FedEx. Jim received the vials on
2/4/97, and sent me the following information. Please note that Jim only
tested two samples and all data is not absolute or necessarily
statistically significant:
"I centrifuged the tubes at 800 rpm which is 200Xg in the centrifuge I used. I
did this for 10 minutes. This is standard practice for mamallian cells. It
also how I centrifuge everything else including bacteria. The tubes were
refrigerated for an hour before the start of the analysis and kept on ice the
whole time.
"After centrifugation the tubes were placed in a rack next to an empty tube of
the same type but with graudations on it. The California ale had ~30 ml as a
total volume with the pellet having a volume of 7.5 ml. The English Ale had a
total volume of ~35 ml with a pellet volume of 15 ml.
"I then resuspended the pellet in the liquid by putting the tube on a rocker
platform in the cold room. This is a device we use to resuspend blood. It rocks
in a very gentle fashion. I left it for 20 minutes. I then withdrew 1 ml of
the suspension from each vial and added it to 9 ml of 0.9% saline (Sterile)
All procedures were performed in laminar flow hood.
"The English ale yeast clumps in an extreme fashion making accurate counts
problematic. The California ale resuspended uniformly. The Califonia has
about 1e9 cells/ml. The English is around the same number. I did multiple
counts. I feel pretty confident with the California number. The English yeast
is a real problem.
(Note that in subsequent correspondence, Jim told me that although he
had trouble to get a really accurate count on the English Ale yeast, he's
confident that the cell count is in the same ballpark. Some of you will
note that the pellet volume for the English Ale sample was about twice that
of the California Ale sample. At best, that would indicate twice as many
cells, but even so, is still nearly an order of magnitude below the
manufaturer's claims of 250-500 billion cells per vial.)
Jim further went on to report that the viability of both samples was
approximately 85 percent (using methylene blue and rhodamine). No info is
available on what White Labs says the viability of the yeast was when it
was packed.
Jim concludes his cell count measurements by telling me:
"So at 1e9 cells/ml X 30 we are looking at 3e10 cells total. So indeed
they are off by an order of magnitude. This is in the 1e6 cell/microliter
range for packed cells."
For the numerically and scientific-notation challenged, the cell count Jim
observed is about 1 billion cells per milliliter, which when multiplied by
the slurry volume is approximately 30 billion cells per vial. This is
consistent with the "1 million cells per microliter cell density in packed
slurry" information I received from other microbiologists I contacted. To
take this futher, if you've in the "1 billion cells per degree Plato per
milliliter of wort pitching rate" camp like Noonan and others recommend,
then 5 gallons (19 liters) of 12.5 degree Plato (1.050 OG) wort would need
about 240 billion cells. The vials of White Labs yeast Jim tested would
give you at best about 1/8 of the recommended pitching rate in this
instance.
I did a test brew with one sample of White Labs California Ale yeast. I
did not trust their advice to pitch directly into my full five gallons of
wort, so pitched the yeast into a 1/2 gallon starter wort of 1.040 OG.
>From a strictly macro-empirical viewpoint, the starter kicked in about like
what a fully swelled pack of Wyeast would. I'll concede that I may have
saved one day. The resultant fermentation in the five gallon brew
proceeded about the same as it does normally in my brews. No better, no
worse.
I want to thank Jim for offerring to do this cell count and viability test.
Neither Jim nor myself wish to get into long battles over this information.
We only present it for your consideration. I questioned the numbers, did a
little digging and Jim proved that my suspicions were correct. I make no
accusations of intent by White Labs to willfully mislead customers.
Mistakes happen. I, for one, would certainly like to hear from White Labs
in this forum. If an honest error occurred, so be it. Fix the documentation
to reflect reality and include instructions with the product on the
neccesity of building up the yeast volume via a starter, and let's move on.
Jim's e-mail is "JLIDDIL@AZCC.Arizona.EDU"
As they say, "Caveat Emptor"
- --Paul Edwards (pedwards@iquest.net)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:31:27 -0700 (MST)
From: jac@access.usa.net (John A. Carlson, Jr.)
Subject: Classic Beer Styles Series: Brown Ale
I had the good fortune to run into Jim Parker (Institute for Brewing
Studies) last night while drinking a pint at the Corner Bar. Jim has
recently signed a contract with Brewers Publications to write the next
Classic Beer Styles Book. The book will be on Brown Ales.
Now the exciting part. As you know the 8th Annual Reggale & Dredhop
Homebrew Competition on March 1, 1997 in Boulder, Colorado will select the
best brown ale entry to be commercially produced by the One Keg Brewhouse.
The beer will be sold to the Old Chicago Restaurant chain and served
throughout its Front Range locations.
Jim Parker will publish the winning recipe in his Brown Ale book! Alas,
the entry deadline is 2/21/97 and the brown ale award is only open to those
who live in Colorado (because the winner must be able to work with the
brewers at One Keg to scale up the recipe).
Brew those Browns and get them to What's Brewing in Boulder by 2/21/97 and
you may be the homebrewer to get your recipe published in Brown Ale!
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2342, 02/10/97
*************************************
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