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HOMEBREW Digest #2276
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/11/14 PST
Homebrew Digest Friday, 15 November 1996 Number 2276
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
2267-high Ca, high FG (th22@cornell.edu)
PLEASE FIX THE HBD/ESB body+solventy aroma/diacetyl (korz@xnet.com)
My first beer batch (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
Post results ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
Mash Efficiency Question/Problem (Tim Martin)
Beer Filters (Marty Tippin)
portable brew/CO2 blanket (Eugene Sonn)
porter lager ("Bryan L. Gros")
Frozen yeast died (Tim Martin)
AHA competitions ("Bryan L. Gros")
Using weight for priming sugar (Dan Morley)
fittings, fittings, fittings (homebrew@ix.netcom.com)
Lightstruck Taste discussed ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
Re: Al's Gas Experiment (Kelly Jones)
Re: Dropped posts, HBD subscriptions (Dave Greenlee)
mashout/fill experiment (korz@xnet.com)
how long to sparge?/O2 cap sanitation/air dispense (korz@xnet.com)
Oak Barrel Exp. (Thomas Flanagan)
Multiple responses (u-brew-it)
Hazelnut brown (u-brew-it)
Dry hopping And disintegrating air stones (Richard Walto)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: th22@cornell.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:36:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 2267-high Ca, high FG
Dave Whitman wrote:
>However, I'm still trying to understand how my efficiency can be
>invarient, but >my attenuation change dramatically upon changing [Ca].
Several people have responded that this may be a result of effects on the
diastatic enzymes, particularly alpha amylase. What Dave observed was that
after he began adding calcium to his RO water the final gravity (FG) of his
brews went up.
To me this doesn't suggest an effect on alpha amylase (in which case I
think he would see lower FG due to production by alpha amylase of more
substrate for beta amylase and therefore more fermentability) but rather
suggests an effect on the yeast. I just know I have a reference on the
effect of calcium on yeast floculation, and I've been looking for it for a
week while this thread has been running but I can't come up with it.
Anyway, I believe that increasing calcium improves yeast floc formation,
and that this would explain Dave's higher FG in the prescence of increased
calcium; esentially the yeast is dropping out a bit sooner and leaving more
fermentables behind.
If this is the case, then Dave should be able to get the FG back down by
rousing the yeast. Does anyone else recall hearing that Ca++ increases
floculation?
Tom Herlache
th22@cornell.edu
------------------------------
From: korz@xnet.com
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:46:43 -0600 (CST)
Subject: PLEASE FIX THE HBD/ESB body+solventy aroma/diacetyl
I find it very irritating that I have to check to make sure that posts
actually make it into the HBD. A response from aob.org is no guarantee
that the post actually will make it. Furthermore, you will see a post in
#2274 that refers to "my previous post on diacetyl." Well, that previous
post was probably a victim of the "[none]" bug or something. I've fixed
up this post so you don't have to refer back to my correction in #2274.
***
George writes:
The things that caught my eye were the complaints of thin body and
solvent flavor. Thin body can come from too long a protein rest at
too low a temperature. You need medium molecular weight proteins to
give body to a beer, so you don't want to degrade them too much with a
protein rest between 113-122F.
Solvent flavors can come from too high a fermentation temperature.
Excessive esters can also come from this.
Actually, I believe that excessive amino acids can result in more higher
alcohol production, so the two may be related. A long rest between 113
and 122F will cut a lot of proteins down to amino acids. Losing these
proteins will affect body and head retention and I believe that excess
amino acids will increase higher alcohol production. Comments?
George also asked about how to increase diacetyl, that buttery aroma.
While I don't think that neither Fuller's ESB nor Young's Special London
Ale are as buttery as some other British ales (like Samuel Smith's or
Bateman's), use a highly flocculent yeast (like Wyeast #1968 London ESB)
and then aerate during fermentation. Yes, that's right, aerate during
the first part of the fermentation. This will increase diacetyl production.
I suggest not waiting too long into the fermentation because you risk
oxidizing your alcohols. When your beer just reaches high kraeusen
aerate once. You can do this with an airstone or by racking the fermenting
beer into a secondary, but contrary to the usual advice of running the
siphon hose all the way into the bottom of the receiving container, you
let the beer splash in there, aerating the beer. The highly flocculent
yeast will drop out before reducing all the diacetyl it made and voila!
Butterscotch beer!
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb@elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:27:17 -0300 (UY)
Subject: My first beer batch
> Dear friends,
>
> I am ready to brew my first beer this weekend. I have a certain unhopped
> extract which is used for baking (the only one I can get here in Uruguay),
> 50%-55% maltose, 20% dextrins and 5-6% proteins. I hope it will ferment fine.
> I have a recipe David Burley suggested me to use. I will change it a little
> though. I will use ale yeasts from MauriBrew, Australia (Burley suggested me
> lager yeasts) considering that the weather is hot here (higher than 20
> degrees C). OG will be around 1.06; I want a somehow high alcohol
> content (around 5.5-6% in volume).
> I will also use Cascade and Northern Brewers hops in the proportions that
> Burley suggested. Hopefully it will work. I made a spreadsheet to explain my
> calculations and want to publish it for you all. Any suggestion will be
> welcomed.
>
>
> MALT EXTRACT
> ------------
> DENSITY 80 BRIX <> 1.47 g/mL
> MALTOSE 50-55%
> DEXTRINS 20%
> PROTEINS 6%
>
> FERMENTATION YIELD 95% (I suppose this value though I do not know
> whether it would be correct or not) Is there any estimation?
> 180g glucose ----> 92 X 0.5 X 0.95 = 43.7g alcohol
> wort density = 1.47 X + 1.00 (1-X), where X = extract fraction in volume
> alcohol density: 0.7893
> dextrin density: 1.0384
>
> wort extract extract extr/ alc/ alc alc dextrin beer
> dens. % in vol. % weight batch batch % weight % vol. % weight density
> g/mL mL/100 mL g/100mL kg/20L kg/20L g/100mL mL/100mL g/100mL g/mL
>
> 1.05 10.6 15.58 3.11 0.75 3.77 4.78 3.11 0.993
> 1.06 12.8 18.81 3.76 0.91 4.56 5.78 3.76 0.992
> 1.07 14.9 21.90 4.38 1.06 5.32 6.74 4.38 0.990
> 1.08 17.0 24.99 5.00 1.21 6.07 7.69 5.00 0.989
> 1.09 19.1 28.08 5.61 1.36 6.81 8.63 5.61 0.988
> 1.10 21.3 31.31 6.26 1.52 7.60 9.63 6.26 0.986
> 1.11 23.4 34.40 6.88 1.67 8.35 10.58 6.88 0.985
> 1.12 25.5 37.48 7.50 1.82 9.10 11.53 7.50 0.984
>
> beer density calculation for a wort with OG 1.06
> FG4=0.0456 + 0.0376 + 0.05 + 1/100(100-5.78-3.76/1.0384- 5/1.06)=0.992
> This value is just an approximation and will not be the real value.
> I considered that there would be 5% (in weight, 5g/100mL)) of unfermented
> extract and 20% unfermented dextrins and applied the above formula. FG would
> be higher but I do not have any other equation to help me calculate it.
> I hope you find it clear. I will be happy to receive comments, suggestions
> and corrections. I would appreciate any information concerning the way to
> calculate attenuation and alcohol content from a certain OG wort.
> Thanks
>
> Jorge Blasig
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton@iastate.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:30:10 -0600
Subject: Post results
I posed a question in HBD 2272 about the issue of glycerin and/or glycerol
in freezing/long term storage of yeast.
The results are in:
in 100% of the cases, Glycerol was said to be the same animal as glycerin,
and available from your local drugstore.
Thanks to all that answered my question, it is much appreciated.
Jeff
Jeffrey M. Kenton finger for PGP public key
ElEd/SecEd 301 Teaching Assistant
N013 Lagomarcino Hall "Information comes, knowledge lingers"
jkenton@iastate.edu - Alfred Lord Tennyson
------------------------------
From: Tim Martin <TimM@southwest.cc.nc.us>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: Mash Efficiency Question/Problem
Hey Neighbors,
With only four all grains batches under me I decided to down load one of
those recipe formulation programs yesterday and run two of my recipes
through it to see how I was doing on my mash efficiency and I.B.U. hop
calculations. To my chagrin I was considerably under the programs
default mash efficiency of 70%. One recipe was 42% and the other
was 51%. Trying to analyze why I am getting low efficiency I can only
guess that 1) my hydrometer is off 2) I'm a piss poor masher 3) you tell
me, please.
I mash in a Gott cooler, single infusion around 155 degreesF, Klages as
base malt, sparge with home made rotating Phil's arm, take hydrometer
reading after boiling and chilling to 65-70 degrees.
Is a 70% efficiency too much to expect after only four batches? I really
don't understand this efficiency stuff that well but I do like the beer I
made but if I can do better I would like to learn how. What of the big
picture I'm I missing here? If someone would like to take me to the
sidelines and couch me on this I would sure appreciate it.
TIA
Tim Martin
Cullowhee, NC.
------------------------------
From: Marty Tippin <MartyT@geoaccess.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:12:54 -0600
Subject: Beer Filters
Ian Smith asks about filtering his beer.
Assuming you keg the stuff right now, you're in luck. Otherwise, I
can't help you.
I've got a partly-completed web page that should have enough information
that you can figure out how to build your own filter. Basically, it
involves one of those whole-house filter units (maybe $15 at builders
supply houses) with a 0.5 micron pleated polypropylene filter cartridge
available from The Filter Store Plus (see ads in homebrew mags, $45 or
so) and some other places. You should be able to save a few dollars
over buying the ready-made filter (and you'll have the satisfaction of
having done it yourself...)
Regarding the reusable vs. disposable filters - the one sold by The
Filter Store Plus is a reusable one that you backflush after each use;
I've done a dozen or so batches on it with no problem. I tried the
single-use disposable filters from Crystal Clear Products (also
advertises in most mags, around $6 each) and was disappointed in the
results (too much foaming and not enough filtering) so I tossed them out
and went back to my permanent filter. They may work for some people,
but I wasn't one of them.
Anyway, the filtering web page and all kinds of other homebrew gadgets
are at
http://www.wwi.net/martyt
- -Marty
martyt@wwgv.com
------------------------------
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene@dreamscape.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:11:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: portable brew/CO2 blanket
Regarding using CO2 as a protective blanket between air and your kegged
beer........
I have had good success using this technique with mini-kegs. I
have a combination tap which allows me to use either a CO2 charge or a
hand air pump to dispense from the same keg. I've frequently been able to
use CO2 at first (creating a blanket of it above the beer) and then switch
to the hand air pump. Though the CO2 and air may mix, this usually hasn't
been a problem over the course of one week. I would assume you could have
similar results with corny kegs. Your mileage may vary.....and how
couldn't it with all this snow?
Eugene
on the shore of Lake Ontario
eugene@dreamscape.com
------------------------------
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:48:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: porter lager
Al K writes:
>>The concern Tim had was whether it's okay to make a Porter with lager
>>yeast at 60 degrees. The answer is... it depends on the yeast. ...
>> 60F seems like a fine temperature for Wyeast California
>>Lager (#2112) which is reportedly the yeast used by Anchor for their Steam
>>and *Porter*.
>
According to the brewery tour guide about a year ago, Anchor used to
use the lager yeast for their Steam and Porter beers, but now they use their
ale yeast for their porter.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
From: Tim Martin <TimM@southwest.cc.nc.us>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:27:01 -0500
Subject: Frozen yeast died
Hey Neighbors,
This week end I couldn't take the suspense any longer so I thawed out
one of my jars of frozen yeast that I put in the deep freezer from last
brew season. I opened an old can of extract and boiled it in 2.5 gallons
of water, cooled and pitched. Nothing!!! Dead, Still, Quiet after two days.
This was my first attempt at freezing yeast. I used London Ale slurry
with 25% glycerine.
Maybe I should have waited a few more days but I didn't so I tossed
some dry yeast on it just to save the batch. Maybe I should have step up
the slurry but I didn't. My whole reason for freezing yeast was for the
convenience, just thaw, decant the glycerine and pitch. I really had
great hopes for this process and I was really disappointed that it didn't
work for me. I have one jar left to experiment with so do any of you
arctic yeast ranchers have any idea how I might proceed next time?
Frozen but not dead,
Tim Martin
Cullowhee, NC.
------------------------------
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:52:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: AHA competitions
Does anyone have a list of the 97 AHA club only competitions and dates?
Since Shawn left, the internet stuff for the AHA is very outdated.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
From: Dan Morley <morleyd@cadvision.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:35:11 -0700
Subject: Using weight for priming sugar
Hello all,
I have been reading Dave Draper's and Mark Hibberd's papers on using
weight for the amount of priming sugar to add at bottling. This makes
allot of sense to me.
However, when I compare the figures that each give for calculating
the amount of sugar to add, I come up with 2 different figures.
Mark states:
4 grams/l of sucrose will ferment to give 1 volume CO2 and that it takes
15% more dextrose/glucose (ie 4.6 grams/l) to give 1 volume of CO2
Dave states:
3.7 grams/l of dextrose/glucose will ferment to give 1 volume CO2, and
(working backwards from his formula) 5.822% less sucrose (ie 3.5 grams/l)
I only use dextrose at bottling, so I'll use that in the following example.
Beer - ESB, temp = 18 C, (64.5 F), desired volume CO2 = 2.0
Batch size = 23 l
Marks method works out to (2 - .93)*4.6*23 = 113.206 grams
Daves method works out to (2 - .93)/.27027*23 = 91.05 grams
To me this is a fairly significant difference of 22 grams or about 24%
I would like to know which amount is more accurate in producing the desired
volume of CO2
Can anyone clarify this for me?
Can anyone with experience using either of these methods tell me what kind
of results they have had and which method they use?
Thanks
Dan Morley
morleyd@cadvision.com
------------------------------
From: homebrew@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:33:26 -0800
Subject: fittings, fittings, fittings
So we have had extensive conversation regarding copper and beer wort. Would
anyone care to comment on the reactivity of brass fittings with beer wort.
Does the wort leach anything bad from brass???? (i.e. hose barbs, ball
valves, bulkhead fittings, etc.)
Kevin
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton@iastate.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:04:31 -0600
Subject: Lightstruck Taste discussed
Hello, All.
I was doing research in Iowa State University's Library Tiers and came
across an article that may have some relevance to this forum. It is
entitled "The Action of Sunlight on Beer" and was written by P. Gray,
I.Stone, and H. Rothchild of Wallerstein Laboratories, New York. The
article was reprinted from Wallerstein Laboratories Communications, Vol IV
April, 1941.
In general, these fellows found that the presence of free oxygen in beer
which has been exposed to direct sunlight leads to increased "sunlight
flavors." Sunlight is a catalyst for the oxidation reactions.
Interesting also is the fact that a weak iodine solution added to exposed
beer completely neutralizes the skunky odor. A 2 ppm copper solution also
has this effect, but makes the beer so oxidized as to be undrinkable.
The production of the sulphury compounds in the beer was found to be from
the introduction of yeast into wort. Yeast produce sulphury compounds in
the process of fermentation. Un-fermented exposed wort did not produce
skunky beer when later fermented. Read this as: when unfermented wort is
exposed to direct sunlight, it is not ruined. Correctly handling the wort
after the yeast is pitched is the main concern.
Bottle glass color was also described. Clear glass was worst, followed by
green, and brown. These researchers found that ORANGE or RED glass is the
best for preventing UV light from entering the beer. (Anybody ever seen
an orange or red beer bottle? ) Brown is the best available alternative.
In summary, do not incorporate oxygen into fermented beer. Don't worry
about exposing your WORT to sunlight. The effects of skunking occur after
the yeast have been pitched.
Do not bottle your fermented beer in clear glass. Orange and red glass are
the best for storing beer, but amber is the best available alternative.
Though a weak iodine solution can eliminate the skunky smell from exposed
beer, do not try it. (Iodine is toxic) Same goes for copper in strengths
greater than 2 ppm.
I hope this blast from the past helps someone, or prevents them from
tossing out an otherwise fine batch of beer
Jeff
Jeffrey M. Kenton finger for PGP public key
ElEd/SecEd 301 Teaching Assistant
N013 Lagomarcino Hall "Information comes, knowledge lingers"
jkenton@iastate.edu - Alfred Lord Tennyson
------------------------------
From: Kelly Jones <kejones@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:47:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Al's Gas Experiment
Jeff writes:
> For one, I've noted repeatedly that severely under-filled bottles (the
> last one being filled, because I'm too cheap to pour out the last cup
> of beer) DO have noticeably excessive carbonation,
Although it's true that 'one experiment does not a study make', at least
Al's single experiment had the advantage of being 'blind'. This makes it
*ONE* data point. Unless the repeated experiments you related above were
also done blind, I would suggest that they constitute something less than
one valid data point, ie, *ZERO*. Really, you can't measure carbonation via
a non-blind tasting and report it as valid data.
(BTW, Al, that's a pretty clever trick - getting your wife to serve you
homebrew: "Honey, could you get me a beer? What? Why can't I get it myself?
Ummm... its an EXPERIMENT! Yeah!)
To add a theoretical (as opposed to experimental) slant to the argument, I
can state that, if we consider simple liquid-gas equilibrium in a closed
space, there is no reason why an underfilled bottle should exhibit higher
carbonation. There should only be a minor effect on carbonation due to the
fact that, as Al correctly points out, some of the carbonation is going to
fill the headspace rather than staying in the beer.
Additionally, there is no reason (within the realm of liquid-gas
equilibrium) as to why an overfilled bottle would be undercarbonated,
although Al claims to have noticed this effect. One possible explanation I
have heard bandied about is that the yeast still present in a freshly
bottled beer are too 'pooped' to effect the carbonation. The oxygen in a
normal headspace helps get them back on their feet, whereas the lack of
oxygen in an overfilled bottle leads to a significant lag time before full
carbonation is reached. Note that this 'yeast effect' would not fall under
the umbrella of "liquid-gas equilibrium", so my previous statements stand.
This yeast effect lies outside the realm of my expertise (could you tell?),
so I will leave it to others to debate whether this is a valid explanation.
Jeff continues by adding that he has experienced, in underfilled bottles
>a strong tendency to oxidation and staling.
The reasons for this should be obvious, however they are not related to the
gas equilibrium issues.
>Time to draw in the real chemists
Feh! I'm a real Chem Engineer, which is what you really want here.
Of course, most of this discussion is mostly academic, there's really no
good reason to underfill bottles, except for those of us too cheap to throw
out the last half-bottle from a batch (and this would include me!). And
when we're being that cheap, we can certainly learn to live with a single
bottle which is over- or under-carbonated, depending on whom you want to
believe.
Kelly
Hillsboro, OR
------------------------------
From: Dave Greenlee <daveg@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:16:51 -0600
Subject: Re: Dropped posts, HBD subscriptions
Dear BrewFolks:
_Many_ thanks to the _many_ folks who replied via email to my inquiry
regarding dropped posts.
Follow up question: Someone mentioned subscribing to the undigested
version of the list, but I'm somewhat lost about how to go about it, as
well as some other technical issues about the HBD:
(i) The header information says to subscribe/unsubscribe to the digest
that one should send mail to homebrew-digest-request@aob.org with the
one word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the body; what's the difference
between this and subscribing through BEER-L?
(ii-a) To subscribe to the undigested version I've seen suggestions
saying that you should do it by sending the one word body "subscribe" to
homebrew-request@aob.org, but I've also seen instructions saying it
should be sent to homebrew-request@hpfcmr.hp.com or pfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
What's right (or "rightest")?
(ii-b) If you subscribe to the undigested version using one of the
foregoing addresses, can you unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe" to
that same address?
Nazdrowie,
Dave Greenlee
The Vindicated Major Prendergast
*******************************************************
* Major Prendergast's Double Bach Dubbel Doppelbock *
* Extra Specially Bitter Bedlam Brewery, *
* a Texas noncommercial Bozoid singularity *
* ( daveg@mail.airmail.net ) *
*******************************************************
------------------------------
From: korz@xnet.com
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:04:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject: mashout/fill experiment
Sorry about the long post and breaking my rule about waiting for others
to respond first, but some of these topics are near to my heart.
Eric writes:
>Al K says:
>"
>Therefore, in all three cases, mashout would only be killing alpha
>amylase which does not change fermentability. Another way to think
>about it is: if it mattered to you that the enzymes (which could only
>be alpha amylase) were still working after the mash was compleat, then
>there is *starch* remaining and you mashed-out too early!
> "
>Perhaps, and this is a wild guess on my part, all the enzymes are stable
>below mash-out temps. If so, enzymes inhibited at higher mash temps
>would reactivate in the collection pot in the absence of a mash-out.
>
>Oh- and Al? you misspelled complete.
Before I comment, I'd like to point out that I am very much in favour
(yes, f-a-v-o-u-r) of doing mashouts. I know that they increase the
extract efficiency (you get more out of the goods) and you decrease
the likelyhood of a set mash (stuck laeuter). I just don't believe
that a mashout makes any *practical* difference in fermentability.
I'm afraid your wild guess is wrong... enzymes are not all stable below
mashout -- that's exactly why you can vary the proteolysis (a fancy word
for cutting up proteins) and fermentability. If you do a protein rest
at 122F, both the peptidases and proteases are active for quite some time
and they cut all the proteins down to amino acids. If you do your
protein rest at, say 140F, the peptidases are denatured quite quickly
and only the proteases are active for any length of time. These cut
big (haze-producing) proteins down to medium-sized (head-retaining and
body-building) proteins.
Similarly, if you mash at 150F, both beta and alpha amylase are active and
you get a lot of maltose and very few dextrins (highly fermentable wort).
If you mash at 158F, the beta amylase gets denatured quickly and for most
of the mash, only alpha amylase is active so you get less maltose and
lots more dextrins (dextrinous, high-FG wort).
There are many other enzymes some that are denatured even at 122F so that
you need to do a rest at 95-100F to get anything from them.
As for the spelling of compleat, visit the UK and ask them who is spelling
it wrong...
To paraphrase Dave Draper: "I'm not from there, but I love it there."
***
Jeff writes:
>I don't want to jump in Al's case, but seriously, folks, one experiment
>does not a study make. Among the many reasons for doing multiple
>experiments before jumping to conclusions is that they help cover
>a wide range of variables. Right off the top of my head, I would say
>that temperature would be a big one here, as would time, neither of
>which could be addressed by one case.
The beer was bottled in January and I tasted it in March and October.
In the meantime, the bottles spent most of their time between 60F (winter),
and 70F (summer). I encourage everyone to repeat my experiment, but I
ask that you do as I did: GET SOMEONE TO POUR THE BEERS FOR YOU IN ANOTHER
ROOM. When you open a low-fill bottle it makes a *huge* "FFFFFFFFT."
This can cause a lot of bias... as a matter of fact, warn the person
that some bottles will have a lot of hiss because they may be tempted
(as any of us would) to dive for the sink after a sound like that!
>The other problem, of course, is that others have experienced very
>different results, and it's unfair to simply dismiss them as anecdotal.
>For one, I've noted repeatedly that severely under-filled bottles (the
>last one being filled, because I'm too cheap to pour out the last cup
>of beer) DO have noticeably excessive carbonation, as well as a strong
>tendency to oxidation and staling.
Please try tasting those half-filled bottles "deaf" as Jacques put it
and see if you may not have been swayed by the sound.
>Sorry, Al, but there are real risks involved in publishing too early.
No problem Jeff... you didn't call me names and you made some good points.
Incidentally, I've done this experiment very informally literally a hundred
times (I too cap that last 1/2-filled bottle) and I've found there to be
no overcarbonation in the low-fill bottles. This is just the first time
I actually tried to quantify the depth of the headspace and did high-fill
bottles too. The high-fill experiment was indeed done by another poster
before me. Really, folks... this has to be the easiest experiment to do:
next time you bottle, fill a few low and a few high... simple!
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
From: korz@xnet.com
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:15:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: how long to sparge?/O2 cap sanitation/air dispense
Sorry again... I'll try to behave myself again after this post.
Ian asks:
>When the sg of the sparge reaches 1.010 (or you can taste tannins) you
>usually stop sparging right....?
I stop sparging when I've collected the proper amount of runnings. For
5 gallon batches, that used to be between 6.5 and 8 gallons (depending
on my mood and willingness to boil for hours. As for tannin extraction,
monitor the pH and acidify your sparge water if your water limits you
to less than 6.5 gallons of runnings (i.e. the pH gets above 6 before
you have 6.5 gal). Now, I do 1/2bbl batches and my kettle limits me
to about 18 gallons of runnings.
>until it cools to 60 F to take a reading or is the 1.010 reading at normal
>sparge outlet temperatures and does not need converting ?
If you do go by SG, yes, you must compensate for the high measuring temp or
(alternatively) cool the sample to 60F.
***
Phil writes:
>I seem to remember something about using O2 barrier caps with iodophor,
>is it good or bad? I know I'm not supposed to boil them.
Sanitizing O2-absorbing caps can be done with iodophor or 200 ppm bleach.
That's what the application engineer at Zapata told me. One-step and
B-brite will ruin them just as boiling will.
***
Kevin writes:
>2) Commerical beer systems are comprised of several components but
>for this expose the three main units are the CO2 tank, the AIR
>compressor, and the AIR-GAS blender. Basically what happens is the
>air-gas blender receives gas from the tank and what amounts to an air
>compressor,
>mixes them and feeds them into the keg. Now the purpose of the air
>is to force the beer out of the keg. The purpose of the CO2 is to
>keep the fizzies in the beer (by creating a pressure balance between
>the CO2 in liquid and the CO2 in the headspace). Additionally, the
>CO2 is heavier than the air and falls to the surface of the beer while the
>air remains at the top of the keg filling the ever increasing air space.
I've read about systems like this and frankly, I don't buy it. CO2 *is*
heavier than air, but gasses don't behave like liquids, in other words,
they don't separate into layers. I know that there are many commercial
systems that use air compressors, but I suspect that it's important that
the beer be kept at 33F like they usually do and you have to go through
the kegs pretty quickly or the beer will stale. The CO2 will initially
sink to the bottom and displace the air, but if you put the CO2 and air
together in the same space, they will mix into a homogeneous blend of
gasses in a short amount of time.
In Scotland, one traditional method of dispense is with an air pump.
"Doesn't that oxidize the beer?" you may ask... yes it does. The key
is to buy no larger a cask of each beer than you can dispense in a day
or two. All over Britain, all the traditional methods of dispense have
the beer exposed to air. Slow-moving beers will tend to go bad which
is why some suggest that cask breathers be used. CAMRA diehards will
say "no way" but I (a CAMRA member) believe that good beer is more
important and I'm not as afraid of the "give `em an inch, they'll
take a mile" syndrome as some of the opponents of the breather believe.
(Ooops... a cask breather is a demand CO2 system which simply replaces
headspace with CO2 as the beer is drawn out by gravity or handpump).
>air separates out in its own layer. So apply that to a tank and you
>have the heavier gas settling to the bottom and the lighter gas at
>the top where the gas is dispensed.
That's simply not how gasses behave... I also thought that initially, and
it is intuitive, but really, gasses will diffuse into each other till
their concentration is the same throughout the tank. Really!
>I don't claim to be an expert at beer system technology, however this
>is how it was explained to me by my Perlick rep. And for those who
>don't know who Perlick is, they are the people who make the beer
>dispensing systems. Additionally, they supply all the big boys with
>their brewery fittings, kegging fittings, etc.
I don't think they require a degree in physics for sales positions at
Perlick. I know a local Perlick rep personally. He's a nice guy.
He used to sell suits at a big and tall shop a few years ago.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
From: Thomas Flanagan <flanagan@webspan.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:08:00 -0800
Subject: Oak Barrel Exp.
Digest
Janitor, I
would like to get in touch with Jim Mosser to find out additional
information on the experiment. I would also like to contact the company
who makes the wooden barrels. I tried calling the number listed in the
article but had no luck. Any help with this information would be greatly
appreciated.
sincerely,
Tom Flanagan
flanagan@webspan.net
------------------------------
From: u-brew-it <ubrewit@csra.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:43:49 -0800
Subject: Multiple responses
I sent this last night but it seems that the "NONE" monster got it. Hope
it gets out tonight.
To the HBD,
Here is my $.08 worth (4 responses at .02 each) to some questions on
#2273.
1) Weyerman malts: Weyerman is the supplier of malts to Ireks, so they
are one in the same. Their quality is supposed to be second to none and
I have been told that they are the suppliers to many German breweries. I
too have just recently gotten in the smoked, caramunich, carafoam,
carawheat, melanoidin, and carafa. I'm looking forward to trying
them....so little time so many malts.
2) Ginger Beer (Re: Skip) I agree with Scott about using ginger, and the
characteristics, make sure that you strain it out or else in the
fermenter it will keep on spicing the beer and overpower it.
Here is a mash extract recipe I have used in the past and it is very
tasty and strongly flavored with ginger. Give this beer at least 6 weeks
to age. Similar to some of the Jamaican "ginger beers"
Ginger Beer:
1/2 lb. Muntons Crystal malt (60L)
1/2 lb. Muntons Carapils (10-15 L)
"Mash" at 150 F. for 30 minutes. Remove grains.
6 oz. Fresh grated ginger.
Willamette hop pellets (4.3 alpha)
Boil 45 min.
1/2 oz. Cascade hop pellets (5 alpha)
1/2 tsp Irish moss
Boil 15 min.
1/2 oz. Cascade pellets
Turn off heat and steep 2-5 min.
Sparge, bring to 5 gal.
Ferment with Wyeast (#?) London Ale
3) California Common yeast in uncommon beers. After having a lengthy
discussion with the head brewer of 2 brewpubs in Florida, I used the Cali
Common in some lagers (they use it in theirs due to quick turn around).
I used it in a Munich Helles, Dortmunder, and then for the heck of it I
added it to a Cream Ale that I was teaching a class on. The cream ale
turned into a great summertime lager, light refreshing. I was happy with
the results in all of the beers, not identical to the Munich Lager yeast,
but good none the less. Also the beer seemed to age quicker and thus be
ready to drink more quickly (See above). Make sure you ferment below
60F. I was at 52-55.
4) Glycerol for freezing yeast: Any homebrewing store that carries
liqueur extracts and wine supplies should carry "Finishing formula" a
food grade glycerine. I have been told that glycerine and glycerol are
basically the same. Either way I have used the glycerine to freeze 7
different liquid yeasts for reuse, and the yeasts have lasted up to 10-12
months in the freezer.
NOTE: when stepping up the liquid yeast make 2 starter bottles
(possibly 3). Take 1-2 tsp. frozen yeast slurry and add to a sterile
bottle with 1-2 oz. starter solution (well oxygenated). Within 24 hrs
you will see a small krausen and the airlock will be "up", you may even
see it bubble. Then step this up to 4-6 oz. give it 24 hours, and if
possible step up to 1-2 pints.
DO NOT try to step from frozen to 4-6 oz. It will lag 36-72
hours and then go berserk. The problem is that you don't know what else
may have gone berserk in the mean time.
Bibo ergo sum,
(I drink therefore I am)
Kurt A. Meyer
ubrewit@csra.net
http://www.digidime.com/ubrewit/
------------------------------
From: u-brew-it <ubrewit@csra.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:45:26 -0800
Subject: Hazelnut brown
Another one eaten by "NONE", I hope it gets out this time.
Phil Wilcox,
I know your question was directed to the Boston Wort Processors but I
thought I could help. I made a similar recipe to the Longshot, except I
wanted it to be richer, and a little less hazelnut. I based mine on a
nut brown recipe (Millers) with honey (1 lb.) instead of brown sugar and
used 1 bottle of T. Noirot Hazelnut liqueur extract at bottling. Myself
and a few friends said they liked it better because of its balance.
Since then I have gotten the original recipe from my rep. at
Northwestern Extracts;
Doug and Vicki Parkers hazelnut Brown:
6.6 lbs N.W. Gold liq. extract
1/2 lb. M&F pale ale malt
1/2 lb. M&F crystal malt (60 L ?)
1 lb. Cara-pils
1.5 oz. Willamette (or Fuggle)
60 minute boil
1 oz. Willamette or Fuggle (aroma)
5 min. steep
1 tsp Irish Moss (15 min rrom end)
1.5 bottles All Natural Hazelnut Flavoring at bottling
2 tsp. gypsum
Wyeast British Ale.
Mash grain at 160 F.
5 gal. yield.
This is how I received the recipe, as you may notice no alpha ratings for
the hops so your guess is as good as mine. The T. Noirot should be
available at your favorite H.B. store or they can order it if they buy
from L.D. Carlson.
Enjoy,
Kurt A. Meyer
ubrewit@csra.net
http://www.digidime.com/ubrewit/
------------------------------
From: Richard Walto <70410.1112@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 14 Nov 96 21:11:50 EST
Subject: Dry hopping And disintegrating air stones
Mike Demers writes:
>I went ahead and dry hopped a batch of Sierra Nevada
>Pale Ale clone with 2 oz. of Cascade pellets. They
>floated for the first day or so and then began falling.
>I also helped move this process along by gently agitating
>the carboy each day. Eventually I moved the carboy into
>the refigerator and crash chilled it overnight. This
>caused all the hops to fall. I then added gelatin finings
>in an attempt to pack the hops down at the bottom. I
>kegged her up the next day and all went well.
>...In fact, this is one of the clearest homebrews I have ever seen.
>Virtually void of any haze as far as I can tell. This is a
>process I definitely will repeat.
This really caught my eye, the part about the really clear beer. I brew in 10
gallon batches and keg in 5 gallon cornelius kegs. Lately, I dry hop one and
leave the other alone. This last time around, I dry hopped with pellets in a
ripped cheese cloth bag and it the pellets disintegrated and got all through
the
beer. The beer tasted pretty good (after 1 week of dry hopping) and I decided
to filter out the hop particals. Two things happened, the beer got very clear
(unusually so for me) and the hop flavor dissappeared. Now I figure if I had
dry hopped for two weeks instead of one the dry hop flavor would have remained
after the filtering, but what really surprised me was the clarity of the beer.
My other keg (with the dry hops) was also filtered, but remained rather cloudy.
So hop pellets as finings, right? If you can get rid of the hops.
Graham Stone said:
>I use a counter flow wort chiller taking wort directly from my boiler to my
>fermenting vessel (plastic, no infections, nuff said!) and until recently a
>fish tank air pump and air stone. I use Chempro SDP for all my sterilizing
>but found that it appeared to cause the air stone to disintegrate (unless
>there's something odd about my ale!). Does anybody have a neat set up for
>conducting the aeration "in-line" from a wort chiller rather than using a
>air pump/stone dipped into the fermenting vessel? Alternatively, can
>anyone confirm whether Chempro SDP is the cause of the air stone's demise
>or perhaps suggest an alternative sterilizing agent, like bleach?
Sorry Graham,
I have no knowledge of in-line aeration, as I do the same thing you do. I
aerate with a large blue stone thing that I got from an aquarium store and I
use
an aquarium pump and my stone is very slowly losing stones (bits). I do all my
sanitizing with steam or chloring bleach. In the case of the air stone, it's
chlorine bleach. And I too wondered if (in my case) it was the chlorine making
the stone fall apart. I mean, what's making the stone hold together in the
first place. It looks like blue sand and glue. (in my beer?).
And finally, I ask:
When you have one of the those little March MTX motors like I do and it pushes
something like 7-gallons per minute, you don't leave it on for the whole mash!
Do you? I let the liquor slowly fill a bucket which has a float switch, which
turns on the pump and so on... How do others do it? My float switch is home
made, senses a high and low level and uses fishing floats and I don't like it
very much except that it works great (it's a mess to look at, and maintain). I
would rather have a very slow pump that I could keep on the whole time and
forget the sump pump approach. Comments?
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2276
****************************
