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HOMEBREW Digest #2272
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/11/12 PST
Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 12 November 1996 Number 2272
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Re: Cutting enamel pots (Dave Greenlee)
Burned taste in Stout (AJUNDE@ccmail.monsanto.com)
[none] ((George J Fix))
re: Protein Rest using Highly Modified Malt (Steve Alexander)
Re:A complement, a few questions, and a funny one... (GARY MCCARTHY)
Chambord in beer (Agnor Craig)
Blood Glucose meter question. (Steve Alexander)
Insulating converted kegs (u-brew-it)
Smoked Malt (Bob McCowan)
Watch out! (uistats@utell.com)
Subject: insulating converted kegs (Neil Roberts)
Ginger (Skip Jonas)
Digest Submission (Richard Walto)
Pump (Terry White)
Lousy extraction, revisited (Rick Gontarek)
[none] ()
[none] ()
Plastic Pickle Buckets (Edward J. Steinkamp)
[none] ()
Networt II Results (Kathi Colaizzi)
Looking for a small used brewing system (Gitay Kryger)
Root Beer (Tom Martin)
American Dunkle? (MaltyDog@aol.com)
More on O2 and Yeast ((A. J. deLange))
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dave Greenlee <daveg@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:02:41 -0600
Subject: Re: Cutting enamel pots
I had several good responses to my drilling enamel pots
question. A compilation of answers follows in no particular
order:
- ------------------------------------------------------
From: Adam Fisher (Adam=Fisher%SDL%MSDBED@vines.msd.ray.com)
I did something like this before and what I did was put a
couple layers of duct tape on either side of where I was going
to drill. On top of that I shaped a piece of wood to fit on
the inside of the pot over the area where I was going to
drill. I don't think this was necessary but I've been none to
over prepare sometimes. I then used a high speed drill with a
brand new drill bit for metals. Tell me how it turns out.
- ------------------------------------------------------
From: bob rogers <bob@carol.net>
i just put a valve in my enamel kettle. i used a nail to start
the hole, then a large round rasp to enlarge it. i finished the
hole with a small grinding wheel in my dremel tool. the enamel
did not flake as much as i thought it would.
- ------------------------------------------------------
From: Jack St.Clair <jstclair@stt3.com>
Dave, cutting a hole in enamel should be no harder than cutting
a hole in glass. An old glaziers trick is to put a small
dollop of modeling clay on the area where you want the hole.
Form it in the shape of a small volcano with the sides about a
half of an inch high and the bottom an eigth inch over the
drill area. Use a carbide drill at high speed and use gentle
pressure while drilling. The clay will minimize the chipping.
I have successfully drilled numerous "un-drillable" objects
using this technique.
- ------------------------------------------------------
From: Ken Schwartz (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Depending on the required hole size, you might try a hole
saw. This should cut more or less perpendicularly into the
enamel, rather than across it, minimizing chipping. Failing
that, try scoring the hole's circular outline first (or
slightly larger), cutting through the enamel with a sharp knife
or scribe. This way, if the enamel chips while drilling, it
will only flake off up to the scribed circle. By making the
circle slightly larger (1/16"?) than the hole, the risk of
"accidentally" chipping past the scribe is minimized.
Also, use progressively bigger drill bits. This will also
help ensure clean drilling. Don't be afraid to use five or
more drill sizes, and "sneak up" on the final hole size. Any
exposed metal within a small ring around the final hole will be
covered up with a ealing washer anyway.
- ------------------------------------------------------
From: Matthew Karpinski (karp@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)
I just did so myself, I found that the hardest part was
getting the hole big enough to get the fixtures thru the wall
(I used a 3/8" NPT male to 3/8"compression fitting, NPT threads
through the pot with neoprene washers on either side of the
hole -- the hole had to be 5/8") I ended up cutting through
with a 1/2" bit and using a countersink I had lying around to
get the hole big enough. Seems to work so far. just remember
that teflon tape is your friend.
------------------------------
From: AJUNDE@ccmail.monsanto.com
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:02:04 -0600
Subject: Burned taste in Stout
Recently, I tried to do my first batch of Stout. All went well for the
most part, and bottling went well.
Well, I opened the first bottle the weekend before Holloween, and
there is a very strong "burned" aftertaste in the back of my mouth.
Is this a function of the amount of Roasted Barley or the fact that I
boiled the grains? (see my previous posts questioning the boiling of
grains)
Will this flavor diminish with aging? (I hope, I hope, I hope!)
My wife and her girlfriends did like mixing it with Bass for Black &
Tans, so if the flavor doesn't go away, the batch won't go to waste.
Thanks!
| Allen Underdown - ajunde@ccmail.monsanto.com |
| ITSS WAN Group - Monsanto World Headquarters - St. Louis, MO |
| Homebrewing in the Shadow of the Mighty AB, the |
| inventors of the Clidesdale Water Filtration System |
------------------------------
From: gjfix@utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 12:58:35 -0600
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:13:31 -0500
Subject: re: Protein Rest using Highly Modified Malt
Rob Kienle in response to Charley Burns query about protein rests says ...
>In HBD 2268, Charles Burns asks:
>
>>> So, question - what temperature would be best for the rest (yes, it
>rhymes) using say Hugh Bairds Pale Ale and for how long? My inclination
>is somewhere between 125 and 130F for about 30 minutes. And oh yeah,
>probably very very thick @ about 24 oz water per pound of malt.
>
>>> Or am I completely wasting time and energy? Or am I possibly ruining my
>mash by doing this with fully modified malt?
>
>
>I have been using highly modified malt for all my "pale" ales for about
>a year now, but I have not been using a protein rest with the base pale
>ale malt. Instead, I've done a "mini" protein rest at 122 for 30 minutes
>for any supplemental grains (except crystal) such as wheat or Victory or
>whatever, with a smaller amount of water of course, and then added the
>highly modified malt when I go to saccarification rests.
...
Malt proteases are effective from malting temperatures up thru a peak
temperature which varies depending on the particular protease. There
are many proteases involved, at least 6 and probably a lot more and
I'm not aware of an encyclopedic list. The 'optima' temperatures vary
from about 40C/122F to 62C/143F.
Generally speaking all modern malts are well modified by historic
standards and so there is probably more than sufficient amino acids
for healthy yeast growth in normal wort. One exception is that
unmalted adjunct (e.g. raw wheat) contribute little to the free amino
acids and so beers with a high % adjunct can usefully withstand a
peptidase rest (say 40C-55C). Excess wort amino acids can purportedly
have negative flavor consequences.
An endoprotease rest (say 53C-60C) is useful for degrading high
molecular weight proteins(HMWPs) into medium MWPs, and potentially
reducing protein haze. This is probably the only protein rest of
interest for moderate to low adjuct recipes.
In an offline discussion with Al Korzonas and Russ Brodeur re haze and
proteases, I've reviewed my readily available sources and haven't yet
found evidence in the lit that a protein rest is enzymatically
ineffective for pale ale malts like the hugh baird mentioned. My
feeling is that it is ineffective, becauses I suspect the proteases
are largely denatured by the hotter kilning of PA malts, but I need to
do a better library search to confirm this.
Rob Kienle's method of resting at 122F for only the low diastatic
power, highly kilned and unmalted grains probably has no effect on
proteins. The highly kilned grains (such as victory and biscuit) have
almost certainly lost their proteases in the kiln. Unmalted grains
such as raw wheat or oats have almost no protease. Most proteases,
like alpha-amyase, develop progressively thru the malting process.
Steve Alexander
------------------------------
From: GARY MCCARTHY <mccarthy@IOMEGA.COM>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:47:59 -0700
Subject: Re:A complement, a few questions, and a funny one...
Hail All!
In HBD 2270 Tim M. Dugan(tdugan@netins.net) wrote:
>my wife recently said to me that "If you are smart enough to make
>you(r) own beer, you are smart enough to make dinner!" OOPS!
Interesting comment, Tim. I think that perhaps one has to like
cooking to be a home brewer. I know that my love of cooking allowed
me to try home brewing and since then I've become proficient at bread
and candy making(which is very simple, BTW), as well as all-grain
brewing.
>That said, I would like to ask a couple of questions...
>I brewed my first batch, a stout <snip> I am disappointed about is
>its body (mouth feel?), it seems kind of watery. Is this because*
Hard to say since you don't say how you made it. From a kit? I
never liked kits. I would venture that is the reason.
>I have learned since that Laaglander extract is high in
non-fermentables.
>Is this a bad thing for a starter?
c) Relax, don't worry... You are just starting a yeast not really
looking at the ending gravity.
>I came across a digital thermometer with a temperature probe on a
long wire.
>I think it would be great <snip>
I have a Radio Shack indoor/outdoor thermo that I use in the
fermenter. (Audible gasp from the audience). I don't think it is
bad for my brew at all. I would use it in a chiller. I would not
use it in a mash though. Prob not terminal, but I wouldn't do that.
>Finally, speaking of all-grain, I am planning on doing two or three
more
>extract, then one or two partial-mash, but after that I want to try
my
>hand at all-grain. What I want to know is whether this is a good
first
>time mashing system. I want to get a 10-gallon Gott cooler, and an
>EASYMASHER designed to fit the Gott cooler. Is this a reasonable
>first-time all-grain setup, or should I be looking at something
simpler.
Sounds about how I started brewing, then rapidly moved to all-grain.
Some people have had troubles with temp control(stabilizing at the
target temp) in a cooler; and I don't know how expensive an
EASYMASHER is, but let me suggest that you make a lauter tun ala
Parizean (slaughtered his name, right, NJOHB), and get yourself two
five to seven gal kettles to mash in. My opinion is that the
traditional mash is better, but of course your set-up is up to you.
You still need a kettle to do the boiling in.
So take it easy, read lots of stuff, maybe find someone in your local
area to sort of apprentice off of. Sometimes friends let you use
their equipment!
Gary McCarthy in SLC
No foolin' its a fu**ed up world; so be cool my little junkie girl!
Walter Becker
------------------------------
From: Agnor Craig <Craig.Agnor@Colorado.EDU>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:56:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Chambord in beer
Hi folks,
A friend recently gave me a bottle of chambord as a gift. I am
considering brewing a porter and adding some to the secondary to create a
sort of black raspberry-ish porter.
Does anyone have any experience in using chambord in homebrewing?
How much should be added for a noticable but not overpowering berry
flavor?
Is the secondary the right place to add the chambord (I'm planning on
bottle conditioning this brew)?
Any help and or recipes would be greatly appreciated.
Private email is preferred and I'll post a summary of the responses if
they appear to be of general interest.
Thanks,
Craig Agnor
physics graduate student
University of Colorado - Boulder
agnor@ucsu.colorado.edu
------------------------------
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:11:41 -0500
Subject: Blood Glucose meter question.
After many unsucessful attempts to post a response ...
Diabetic Blood glucose meters measure only glucose and so are not
generally useful in assessing fermentables in wort.
Sa
------------------------------
From: u-brew-it <ubrewit@csra.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:57:01 -0800
Subject: Insulating converted kegs
Mr Gros,
A friend of mine built a very nice all grain 3 tier brew system. To
insulate his mash tun and sparge tank he used an aluminum faced bubble
wrap that he purchased at one of the "Super-duper Home Folks Depot Maze"
stores.
I wondered if the bubbles sandwiched between the aluminum would stand up
to the heat from the the propane burners. Well I'm glad to say that
after 5 batches everything seems fine.
If anything else develops I'll post it to the HBD
Kurt A. Meyer
------------------------------
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan@bmd.cpii.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:24:20 -0500
Subject: Smoked Malt
The local (sort of) shop now has Weyermann beechwood smoked malt. The owner
is not sure how strong it is, since he just got it in and hasn't tried it
yet. He suggested 1 lb in a 5 gal batch to to start.
Has anyone tried this stuff? How smoky is it?
He has a bunch of other Weyermann malts too, such as the Munich malts and
some of the crystals. Anybody have experience with these malts?
Bob
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob McCowan
voice: (508)-922-6000 x208
ATG/Receiver-Protector fax: (508)-922-8914
CPI BMD
Formerly Varian CF&RPP e-mail: bob.mccowan@bmd.cpii.com or
Beverly, MA 01915 bob.mccowan@cfrp.varian.com
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: uistats@utell.com
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:09:17 -0600
Subject: Watch out!
>From the RBPMail,
BEERS CONSUMED BY THE TRUNK-LOAD
A herd of thirsty elephants 45-strong in search of water destroyed
several illegal breweries in Midnapore, India, a district 62 miles
southwest of Calcutta. "The elephants destroyed six illegal breweries
in two days. They are notoriously famous for their fondness for
liquor and are great guzzlers," Indian forest officials said. (Source:
item unverified; forwarded by email from Marc Milrod @ University
of Washington)
So be on the lookout for any roaming elephants in search of your homebrew :)
Commercial Database Department
Utell International Omaha NE
------------------------------
From: Neil Roberts <neil@wsnet.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 16:37:42 -0600
Subject: Subject: insulating converted kegs
"Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> wrote:
> What's the best way to insulate a converted sankey keg so that it
> can still be heated on the propane burner, but the temperature won't
> drop like a rock during the 1 hr. sparge?
This may not be the best way, but I just bought a cheap sheet of
vinyl(?) backed insulation intended for insulating water heaters. I cut
it to fit and put some velco tabs on it to close it around the keg. I
take it off when heating, etc, then slip it on when the flame is OFF (I
suspect the vinyl covering would melt at the least under heat). I have
had good luck the two times I used it with only about 1 - 3 degree F
heat loss during an hour mash (don't remember exactly, just that it held
the temp well).
I think the insulation cost about $4 or so.
Neil Roberts
neil@wsnet.com
------------------------------
From: Skip Jonas <skip@eclipse.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:43:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Ginger
Re-post of "disappeared" mail:
Folks,
I would like to make a ginger-flavored holiday beer for a friend of mine. I
have never used fresh ginger (in beer) before and would like to hear about
any usage tips (amounts? in the boil? in the primary? in the secondary?
chopped? sliced? whole "plug"? etc.) or recipes (all grain or extract). TIA,
Skip
------------------------------
From: Richard Walto <70410.1112@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Nov 96 18:56:24 EST
Subject: Digest Submission
Please submit this letter to the digest:
Anyone who can help me has my indebtedness in excess. I am trying to
brew my favorite beer in the whole world. Fuller's ESB or Young's
Special London Ale are the best examples of what I'm after.
My problem is this. I can't do it, not even close. I am an
all-grain brewer since 1991 and have produced some beers that I truly
enjoy and in many ways with them, I met the mark. These include an
Altbier, an Oktoberfest (Lager), an American Pale Ale and a few
Belgian strong ales.
The failing beers can probably be summed up as 'homebrew'. Do you
know what I mean? Have you ever tasted a beer and said (to yourself)
'this is homebrew'? I have, and sometimes it's my own beer. What is
it anyway? For me it's always the same taste. But that taste! It's
always the same! I guess I would describe it as solvent and thin.
My beers do not lack flavor, but it's this background solvent thing
that ruins it. I tasted the very same thing in Sam Adams Oktoberfest
at a wedding. It was subtle and I didn't even notice it until the
2nd or third beer. Have I now lost all credibility? (I love Sam
Adams other beers.) Is it just a personal preference thing?
As I began to study this problem I noticed one thing. I always
(underline always) had the problem when I used Wyeast #1968 (London
ESB) or Wyeast #1028 (London Ale). I've brewed probably 5 times with
these yeasts, always with the same results. I have had no problems
with the other Wyeast types (#1056 Chico, Belgian Ale, #2308 Munich
Lager, #1098 British, #1007 German Ale).
I once made a great ESB with the British #1098, but it was so long
ago that I hardly remember what I did. Even though, I'm considering
moving to this yeast, but I wonder if something I do is just not
compatible with certain yeasts.
Anyway I know that #1968 and #1028 are more estery and fruity and I
don't mind that (I think). After all, these yeasts are used
successfully and quite commonly all over the country.
How can I brew a Fuller's or a Young's?
Here's what I do to make 10 gallons:
1) I have a 2-quart yeast starter ready two days before brewing. I always
boil the container and sanitize everything I use. I start with wort from
the previous batch.
2) I mash around 22-23 lbs of grains, two-row, Munich, Crystal ...
The mash is pretty thick (1.2 quarts/lb grain) and begins with a rest at
118. After 20 mins I ramp to 145-150 and rest for 15-20 mins. I then
ramp to 158 and hold to conversion and mash out at 170.
3) I have a recirculating system consisting of a bucket and pump. When the
bucket is full, the pump goes back on and puts the wort back in the top
of the mash (The outlet is submerged to prevent splashing).
4) When the mash is converted, I drain to the boiling kettle (no splashing).
5) I refill the mash tun twice (some splashing here) and drain to the boiling
kettle. I do not recirculate to get the wort clear because it never gets
clear. It's always cloudy, but without particulates.
6) The boil begins immediately and I follow a normal hop schedule for the
style and boil for 90 mins.
7) I have a counter-flow chiller which brings things down to 70 degrees
and I pitch the yeast immediately upon chilling.
O.G. is usually between 1.060 and 1.070.
8) I aerate the wort with an aquarium stone and pump (unfiltered) for about
35 minutes as the wort splashes into the stainless steel fermenter.
9) Fermentation takes 6-7 days and final gravities are generally (1.020 to
1.016) at 65 degrees.
10) I keg right away and leave rest (in fridge) for a week before applying CO2.
Extra Details and Concerns:
I'm worried a bit about hot-side aeration during the recirculating
mash. There is some splashing although I've minimized it. And also
there is the splashing during the sparge. But remember, I've used
this method with some really great beers.
Sometimes after 90 mins of mashing and resting at the final stage of
158, the mash is still not converted. So I say 'oh darn it' and I
mash out anyway. I seem to have a pretty good extraction rate, about
80%.
My water has a pH of 7.9 and a hardness of 116 ppm as CaC03. I add 2
teaspoons of Gypsum or Burton water salts and that's it. I've never
measured the mash pH. But I am concerned that it might be a bit high.
I do no other water treatment.
I use mainly American two-row, some specialty malts, but as of yet
no dextrins.
I wonder if my final gravities are a little high sometimes. I've been
seeing alot of 1.020's and 1.022's lately.
Rick Walton
Phillipston, MA
70410.1112@compuserve.com
------------------------------
From: Terry White <brew@buffnet.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 20:13:43 -0800
Subject: Pump
Hi All,
I am currently setting up a 10 gallon all grain brewery in my garage, I
use a 38 quart Coleman cooler as a hot liquor tank, a 10 gallon Igloo
water cooler with a Easy Masher II as a mash tun and a converted keg on a
200,000 BTU Cajun Cooker to boil. What I want to do is set up a gravity
feed system and I am going to need a good pump to pump hot water from my
kettle to the hot liquor tank. Does anyone know where I can find an
affordable pump that will accomplish this, also what can I expect to pay?
TIA
Terry
------------------------------
From: Rick Gontarek <gontarek@voicenet.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 19:29:04 -0500
Subject: Lousy extraction, revisited
I am reposting my message from last week, because it was apparently
eaten by the [none] bug...
Greetings all,
*Warning: this is a rather long post regarding my all-grain setup and
calculation of extraction efficiencies!*
I seem to perpetually suffer from less-than-decent extraction
efficiency from my all-grain setup. About twice a year I write to the
digest whining about my extraction woes, then I get some good advice,
but it doesn't seem to help much. I was pretty bummed this past
weekend when I brewed an all-grain pumpkin ale and got pathetic
numbers. My beers are usually excellent, but I strive to attain better
extraction numbers given the amount of time I invest in brewing.
If I may provide some details regarding my procedure, maybe some of
you with similar setups can give me additional advice.
This past weekend I used the following recipe for my Holiday Ale (I
know, I know, a little late, but better late than never)
4 lbs. Klages 2-row pale malt
3 lbs. Irek's German Pils malt
1 lb. crystal malt (40L)
2 lbs. wheat malt
1 lb. Victory malt
~4 lbs. roasted pumpkin flesh
2 oz Willamette hops (boil)
1/2 oz. Saaz hops (finishing)
2 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp nutmeg
1/2 tsp ground cloves
1L starter, Wyeast 1007 German Ale Yeast
I have a 10 gallon Gott cooler with a Phil's Phalse bottom. I added
3.0 gallons of 54degC water to the crushed grains and stabilized the
temp at 50degC for 30 minutes. Then I added 1.0 gallons of boiling
water along with the pureed pumpkin (heated to around boiling) and got
the temp of the mash to 65degC. I held this temp in the cooler for
just under 90 minutes. Iodine test confirmed starch conversion. I
added 1 gallon of boiling water to mash out, let the grain bed sit
undisturbed for 10 minutes, gently recirculated about several quarts
of the runnings, then sparged with 4-4.5 gallons of 77degC water over
a period of about 40 minutes. I collected 7 gallons (just about all my
pot will hold). After the sparge, I measured the gravity and got a
temperature corrected value of 1.042.
Using extraction potentials from Papazian's book:
Klages 2row= 35
German Pils= 38
Crystal malt= 34
wheat malt= 37
victory malt= 34
I calculate the potential original gravity as follows:
(4x35) + (3x38) + 34 + (2x37) + 34 = 396
Then, 396/7 = 56.5 or 1.0565 maximum original gravity in 7 gallons.
I got 42, so my percent efficiency is 42/56.5 x 100 = 74%
This doesn't seem to be all that bad, but after the boil and removal
of trub, I wound up with 1.053 in 5 gallons! This is about 67%. This
doesn't even take into consideration the contribution to gravity by
the pumpkin (would the pumpkin contribute much sugar?).
Okay, now for some other details. I grind to a fairly fine crush in
my PhilMill. I've used grain that has been milled in my local homebrew
supply store by a MaltMill, and that makes no difference that I can
detect. My thermometers are correct, my temperature measurements are
correct, my mash pH is on target (~5.5), and the gravity of the final
runnings is less than 1.010. Am I not sparging long enough? I know
that the longer the better, but am I really losing all of my sugar by
cutting the sparge down to 40 minutes? Would I notice a vast increase
in extraction if I simply sparged more slowly? Or maybe with so much
grain I should mash longer?
Am I calculating my efficiency properly? Many of you might say not to
worry and just use more grain, but I can't use much more than I am
using given my limitations for wort collection volume. Why the hell
can't I get 30 points/lb/gallon instead of the abysmal 24? This really
frustrates me. Like I said, I think I am still making great beers, but
I'd really like to get better numbers (hell, at this rate I'd need 200
lbs of malt to make 5 gallons of barleywine!).
If any of you kind souls would like to make some suggestions regarding
my extraction, my setup, or my procedure, I would be greatly
appreciative.
Thanks again for the time. BTW, I have been a subscriber of the HBD
for about 6 years now, and while there is a lot of BS going on these
days, I still get a lot out of it. Thanks!!
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of The Major Groove Picobrewery
Trappe, PA
gontarek@voicenet.com
------------------------------
From:
Date:
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
From:
Date:
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
From: Edward J. Steinkamp <ejs0742@dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:06:24 PST
Subject: Plastic Pickle Buckets
Here is a summary of responses the question of how to
remove pickle odor from plastic buckets.
Comments:
- ---------
- - Sun gets the smell out.
- - Nothing gets the smell out, even sun, but use them anyway.
- - Nothing gets the smell out, even sun, don't use them.
- - If you can't scrub the smell out then it's not going to come
out into your beer.
- - I had the same problem and ... ended up with a "pickled" beer.
- - I have had no off-smells or other problems... <but,> I only
use it <the smelly bucket> for lautering and bottling.
Methods that were tried, but did not work:
- -----------------------------------------
- - Bleach
- - TSP
- - Sun (Probably Seattle sun which is where I live. The
sunshine here comes in drops)
- - Iodine
Methods that were tried and did work:
- -------------------------------------
- - Sun (5 responses)
- - Baking soda + Sun
- - California Sun
- - Arizona Sun
- - Long soaks with a concentrated oxygen bleach like purex
powder or Chlorox II
- - Mix up a solution of oxygen based sanitizer (B-brite/One
Step) at double strength and add 2 cups of fresh baking soda.
Fill with hot water to rim and soak overnight. This works to
remove beer/wine flavor/odors, it may remove the dreaded
Vlasic volatiles.
Thank you to all that responded.
Ed Steinkamp
------------------------------
From:
Date:
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
From: Kathi Colaizzi <75444.1225@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 23:28:12 -0500
Subject: Networt II Results
For those who don't know, a brief description.
Networt II was the second open homebrew competition hosted by the Virtual
Village Homebrew Society, a homebrew club that meets in the Bachus Wine and
Beer forum on Compuserve.
This is, as far as we know, the only sanctioned and recognized competition
to be judged in locations throughout the country with the judges and
organizing staff connected online. The results were posted live with an
interactive question period that allowed the entrants to query the judges
just as they had finished judging.
Although it was a small competition, the judging was excellent and the
entrants who were online for the results and awards all had a great time.
We hope to attract more entries next year.
The Winners of Networt II :
Light Ales:
1st Place: Fred Wills- English Bitter
Wins: A $25 Gift Certificate, Autographed copy of "Using Hops", and 1#
of One Step!
2nd Place: Dan McLaughlin - E.S.B.
Wins: An Autographed copy of "Bock", a Rogue Hat, and 1# of One Step!
3rd Place: Delano DuGarm - I.P.A.
Wins: A Sam Adams T-Shirt and 1# of One Step!
Dark Ales:
1st Place: Ken Hipple- Imperial Stout
Wins: A $25 Gift Certificate, Autographed copy of "Bock", and 1# of
One Step!
2nd Place: Fred Wills _ Oatmeal Stout
Wins: An Autographed copy of "Using Hops", a Rogue Dead Guy Ale
T-Shirt, and 1# of One Step!
3rd Place: Dan McLaughlin - Porter
Wins: A Sam Adams T-Shirt and 1# of One Step!
Specialty Beers:
1st Place: Joel Neely - Fruit Beer
Wins: A $25 Gift Certificate, Autographed copy of "Bock", and 1# of
One Step!
2nd Place: David Smith - Fruit beer
Wins: An Autographed copy of "Using Hops", a Rogue Hat, and 1# of One
Step!
3rd Place: Steve Gale - Pumpkin Beer
Wins: A Sam Adams T-Shirt and 1# of One Step!
High Gravity:
1st Place: Steve Tuttle - Metheglyn
Wins: A $25 Gift Certificate, Autographed copy of "Using Hops", and 1#
of One Step!
2nd Place: Fred Wills - Barleywine
Wins: An Autographed copy of "Using Hops", a Rogue Dead Guy Ale
T-Shirt, and 1# of One Step!
3rd Place: John Huegel - Cyser
Wins: A Sam Adams T-Shirt and 1# of One Step!
German Beers:
1st Place: Fred Stone - Weizen
Wins: A $25 Gift Certificate, Autographed copy of "Bock", and 1# of
One Step!
2nd Place: Jeff Corwith - Kolsch
Wins: An Autographed copy of "Bock", a Pete's OFest T-Shirt, and 1# of
One Step!
3rd Place: Rita Liotta - Kolsch
Wins: A Pete's OFest T-Shirt and 1# of One Step!
Belgian Ales:
1st Place: John Huegel- Belgian Strong Ale
Wins: A $25 Gift Certificate, Autographed copy of "Using Hops", and 1#
of One Step!
2nd Place: Joel Neeley - Wit
Wins: An Autographed copy of "Bock", a Sam Adams T-Shirt, and 1# of
One Step!
3rd Place: Steve Gale - Oud Bruin
Wins: A PWA T-Shirt and 1# of One Step!
Best of Show: Fred Stone - Weizen
Wins: A $50 Gift Certificate to St Patrick's of Texas & a
beautiful Engraved Crystal Mug.
Many Thanx to our Fantastic Sponsors!
St Patrick's of Tx
LOGIC, Inc.
Southbay Homebrew Supply
The Home Brewery (NJ)
Pete's Wicked Brewing Co
Boston Beer Co
Rogue Ales
HopTech
Crafty Fox
Listermann Manufacturing
Vandberg/Dewulf
Bacchus Data Services
These results as well as upcoming information regarding Networt III can be
found on the web at http://www.li.net/~brewman/netwrt2.htm
------------------------------
From: Gitay Kryger <kryger@sgjs6.weizmann.ac.il>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:33:11 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Looking for a small used brewing system
Dear fellow brewers,
I am looking for a small used brewing system in the range of 2-4 BBL,
with all the components, tanks and peripherals. If any of you knows of
such a system or has any comments, please feel free to write me to the
privet e-mail address.
Also, if anyone out there has any experience with a commercially
available system of this size such as DME Natural Brew (3.5 BBL) or
any other, please would you share it with me ?
Thanks,
Gitay
==============================================================================
Gitay Kryger, Ph.D. Voice: +972-8-934-3759
Dept. of Structural Biology Fax: +972-8-934-4159
The Weizmann Institute Cellular: +972-52-494-725
Rehovot, 76100 Internet: kryger@sgjs4.weizmann.ac.il
ISRAEL WWW: http://www.weizmann.ac.il/~jsgrp/gitay
==============================================================================
------------------------------
From: Tom Martin <martiniii@3lefties.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 05:57 MST
Subject: Root Beer
How does one find out how to do home brewed root beer? Do you have that
info or should I check elsewhere?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Martin
TS&S Eateries
819 Parkland Drive
Penthouse Suite
Clovis, NM 88101-4430
Phone or fax (505)769-1898
martiniii@3lefties.com
------------------------------
From: MaltyDog@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 08:11:28 -0500
Subject: American Dunkle?
In Homebrew Digest 2271, George De Piro Said:
"If you want to make a hoppy, dark lager, just throw the pellets of your
choice into the secondary. They will settle in two weeks and you can siphon
the beer off the junk. Just don't call it a Munich Dunkle. "
Yes, George, but what should we call it? Well, following in the great
tradition ofAmerican Pale Ales and American Brown Ales, why don't we call it
an AMERICAN DUNKLE?
This could be the start of a whole new brewing tradition. American brewers
can
come up with a new style of beer by taking an established European style,
whether German, Belgian, English or whatever, using all-American ingredients,
and PILING ON THE AMERICAN HOPS IN HUGE QUANTITIES! CASCADE! CASCADE!
CHINOOK! CHINOOK! Or, in a pinch, centennial. This could be the start of an
American brewing renaissance!
Oh, never mind. American homebrewers are doing that already.
Bill Coleman
MaltyDog@aol.com
------------------------------
From: ajdel@mindspring.com (A. J. deLange)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:46:35 -0500
Subject: More on O2 and Yeast
I had a couple of e-mails on yesterday's post asking good questions and I
think the answers are probably of general interest.
Andy Walsh asked why I did the yeast experiment with such a low pitching rate.
I wanted to make things tough for the yeast i.e. a puny initial count in
what has been posted to be about twice the toxic level of O2 and I wanted
to have them subject to this level for several hours as I expected toxic
effects to take several hours to appear if they appeared at all. If I had
pitched at a nominal rate I'd have been fiddling with the O2 every few
minutes and all the sugar would have been eaten in a couple of hours.
This leads to questions from Brian Bliss and Dave Burley. What happens
after the high level of supplied O2 is removed? Will the yeast continue to
consume O2 until there is none left? The answer is yes as long as other
nutrients are available for growth. Certainly in a wort these other
nutrients should be there but this points out what I think is the major
disadvantage to such high O2 levels: more of the sugar goes into yeast
biomass than normal (less alcohol for you!) and more than normal amounts of
growth phase metabolic products are discharged into the beer. As I have
mentioned in earlier posts the ester content of beers can be manipulated to
some extent by controlling the oxygenation level.
Dave's question was about the source of the toxicity reports. I haven't
shown (or even demonstrated) that there were no toxic effects; only that
the yeast were able to reproduce at a nominally normal rate (double every
hour) under the high O2 levels. I did not brew with these yeast! In a
complete investigation of this subject one would have to do that in order
to see if the brewing properties were changed by this treatment. It is also
very likely that different strains of yeast would respond to high levels of
O2 in different ways. Also toxicity could be defined in a lot of different
ways.
Dave also asked how long it would take for undisturbed boiled wort in an
open vessel to come to 02 equilibrium with the air. To reach equilibrium
would take forever but I expect (based on Sunday's experiments) that it
would take a long time to reach say 90% of saturation, depending on
container geometry. The rate of transfer of O2 into or out of wort depends
on the O2 partial pressure difference across the wort-air interface and the
area of this interface. This is true for inflow as well as outgo so the
experimental numbers for the stockpot are somewhat applicable. It took
about three hours for the DO level to drop from 66% above saturation to 58%
above saturation in the experiment. Water in the same pot should thus move
from 66% below saturation to 58% below saturation in about the same time.
Andy also pointed out a typo: 1.3E5 cells is 130,000 (not 13,000 as in the
post) and asked (as did Brian) how the cell counts were done. I used a
haemocytometer. This is a special microscope slide with rulings graved on
it in a 1 mm x 1 mm square (which is subdivided into 25 smaller squares).
There are ridges which hold the cover slip 0.1 mm above the surface so that
when a drop of fluid is under the coverslip you have 1E-4 cc of fluid
within the 1 mm square. One counts the cells within the 1 mm square (the 25
smaller boxes help you keep track of where you are) and multiplies by 1E4
to get the total per mL.
Brian also wanted to know how many yeast per mL of slurry. I think that
this must vary quite a bit with the size of the yeast (as he suggested) and
especially with how tightly they are packed which is a function of how long
you have allowed them to sit and how badly they get diluted when you try to
get them out of the starter vessel. Are we dealing with slurry or paste?
For what it's worth I usually find that about 100 - 150 ml of slurry for
each 5 gallons of wort gets me into th 8E6 - 12E6 /mL range.
A. J. deLange
- - Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.
Please Note New e-mail Address
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2272
****************************
