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HOMEBREW Digest #2240
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/10/21 PDT
Homebrew Digest Monday, 21 October 1996 Number 2240
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Sabco full mash product advise please? ((Sisco, Jim ))
Mead Digest?? (DavidO1697@aol.com)
Effect of clorine on taste (Marshall Muller)
[none] (postmaster@swpe06.sw.lucent.com)
Re: Jethro on plastic (Andy Walsh)
Plastic -vs- glass (Edward J. Steinkamp)
RE: Uncle Sam (Timothy Sherburne)
RE: Botulism & Bleach & Chillers (Timothy Sherburne)
RE: traveling beer (Timothy Sherburne)
RE: How do I do this brewing?? (Timothy Sherburne)
Insulating Easymasher kettle (Alex Santic)
Low Gravities (BRIAN F. THUMM)
Big Brother and Beer ("Royce Hesley")
In-Vivo Punkin Ale update/Jethro (eric fouch)
Glass vs. Plastic/Aeration ((David C. Harsh))
Killer Chiller Comments (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Whooops....IPA ("Craig Rode")
RE:Carbonator caps (Pickleman)
Brown Scum (James A Kinley/DELCO)
Using corny kegs as fermenters (Mike Beauregard)
Re: traveling beer (Spencer W Thomas)
Mead advice. ("Bryan L. Gros")
CO2 tank, split mash ("Herb B Tuten")
Guiness/Becks/22oz bottles ("John Penn")
Plastic fermenters/HSA at A-B ("korz")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jjsisco@plix.com (Sisco, Jim )
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 15:54:04 -0700
Subject: Sabco full mash product advise please?
I've brewed extract beer now for two years and now I want to upgrade to
all grain brewing. I like the look of the Sabco converted keg but would
like some advise before buying from homebrewer's with experience using
it.
How well does the Sabco full mash package (converted keg with false
bottom, valve, thermometer, etc about $300) work? Is anyone using it to
mash and then to boil after removing the spent grains? If so do you
leave in the false bottom and will this effectively filter out the hops
(whole or pellet)?
Would I be better off with a Gott cooler mash tun system than mashing in
the converted keg???
Thanks,
Jim (jjsisco@plix.com)
------------------------------
From: DavidO1697@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 19:31:13 -0400
Subject: Mead Digest??
I read in a recent HBD that there is a "Cider Digest", is there one for
Mead??
------------------------------
From: Marshall Muller <Marshall.Muller@dsto.defence.gov.au>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:31:45 +0930
Subject: Effect of clorine on taste
If I add tap water which is high in clorine to the cooled wort, what
detrimental effect will this have on the flavour of the beer.
Are there any techniques for removing clorine which don't involve boiling?
For example, during summer we are constantly fighting sunlight
which removes the clorine from the pool - can I use this to my advantage
and simply put water in a open carboy and leave it in the sun for a couple
of days?
TIA
Marshall Muller
AUSTRALIA
------------------------------
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Homebrew Digest Sunday, 20 October 1996 Number 2239
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Warm-Side-Aeration???? ("Kirk Harralson")
Re: Is You Is or Is You Ain't? (Jeff Frane)
Uncle Sam, Chili's in beer ((Steve Cloutier))
Acronyms (smurman@best.com)
Botulism, bleach, my first batch of mead (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
unplanted hop rhizomes (Rick Dante)
Glass Vs. Plastic Thing (Rick Olivo)
new address complexities (Matthew Apple)
traveling beer (Eugene Sonn)
How do I do this brewing?? ((Mark Preston))
rims/rye/weiss yeasts ((beerdogs))
RIMS Question: Lautering (Brian Travis)
born on... ((BAYEROSPACE))
A List Of Mail - Order Stores (shane@cais.cais.com)
Filtering Question !? (Gary Eckhardt)
Carbonater Caps ((Daniel R. Burke))
plastic ((Andy Walsh))
Jethro on Plastic (Rob Moline)
fruit syrups ((beerdogs))
------------------------------
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 23:14:37 +1000
Subject: Re: Jethro on plastic
I said:
>I don't want this to go into one of these never-ending threads that bore
>everybody to death,
Well, I lied. I just cannot let go of this one, especially when I read
such puerile rubbish as written by Jethro Gump (yes, that is his real
name).
jethro sez:
> In Australia, the plastic fermenting pails are ever so gently turned
>in a lathe with decreasing grades of ever finer grit paper, such that there
>is never a scratch evident to harbour bacteria!!!
Ballyhoo and Balderdash!
After much research, I have discovered that all of the world's plastic
fermenters are made in Taiwan. Yes they are turned on a lathe, but it
turns out that the *direction* is such that bacteria never settles in
the grooves in the plastic surface in the Southern Hemisphere due to the
Coriolis force causing the bacteria to settle in the *opposite*
direction to the grooves. Hence, beer made in Australia in plastic will
be infection free, but in the USA is guaranteed to be infected!
Fortunately for our US readers, there is a simple cure for this. As
nobody plays vinyl records any more, go get your old turntable out of
the garage. It rotates clockwise, against the coriolis force in the
Northern Hemisphere. If you put your plastic fermenter on the turntable
(don't forget to turn it on), this will simulate a fermentation in the
Southern Hemisphere, giving you a good, infection free fermentation.
As for the oxidation risk, there is indeed less oxygen in Australia to
permeate through the fementer walls (except Melbourne, granted). This is
not due to a lack of cars and trees, but due to the incredible heat.
Everybody should know about the effects of hot air...Again, there is a
simple solution for this. Just ferment at 40C plus to reduce the
oxidation risk.
So Jethro, keep your redneck theories off the HBD, and just stick to
making bloody gold medal winning barleywine.
>Seppo's could learn much from this mob!!!
Huh? What's a seppo, Jethro?
- --
Andrew Walsh CHAD Research Laboratories
Phone (61 2) 212 6333 5/57 Foveaux Street
Fax (61 2) 212 1336 Surry Hills. NSW. 2010
email awalsh@crl.com.au Australia.
------------------------------
From: Edward J. Steinkamp <ejs0742@dop.fse.ca.boeing.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 19:15:30 PDT
Subject: Plastic -vs- glass
Sometimes I primary in plastic, sometimes glass, but I usually
rack to glass. I mostly go by convenience more than anything
else, I have a 10 gal plastic fermenter, and three 5 gal glass
carboys. If I tie up two of the carboys in primary and then brew
another batch when it's time to rack, I run out of containers.
As far as breaking things go, I've only broken one carboy, but it
was full of beer. I slid an empty one up next to the full one.
They touched ever so sligthly and whoosh, beer and glass all over
my feet. Bummer. I waited for the beer to wash away from the
glass and started sucking it up, but I couldn't drink all of it.
Wasted about a gallon I think <burp>.
My question is why is the permeability of the plastic important?
How does the air get in when the pressure in the fermenter is
higher than that of the ambient air?
Ed
------------------------------
From: Timothy Sherburne <cchaos@northwest.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 19:58:12 -0700
Subject: RE: Uncle Sam
Okay, I don't usually bite at these, but I couldn't let this one pass:
Steve Cloutier writes:
> I also don't like the disappointment of buying a promising looking micro
>only to have it turn out to be swill. But please, please don't advocate
>more government regulation. If it's a health issue, fine. But every
>homebrewer should be aware of the history of prohibition (gov't regulation
>gone wacko) and the devastating affect that it had on U.S. brewing in
>general and homebrewing in particular until very recently. We, as consumers
>already have an arsenal of weapons to combat fraud in the marketplace.
> Complain to the establishment that sold it to you. Complain in writing to
>the brewery. Most of all, don't buy the product again, and tell everyone
>you know not to buy it. The price of an insipid sixer is small indeed
>compared to the specter of *big brother* legislating proper beer styles.
I understand and agree that Prohibition didn't do us [homebrewers] any
favors, but I feel that MARKETING in the brewing industry has done far
more damage to the American consumers than the government has. I agree
with Ed Steinkamp's opinion on this one, and there's LOTS of POSITIVE
examples of goverment regulation in the beer/wine/liquor industry. For
example, industry regulation ensures that a novice appreciator of fine
spirits won't get ripped off when they buy a $30 bottle of Scotch.
Germany has their Reinheitsgebot for beer and France makes sure that a
bottle of sparkling grape juice doesn't get labeled as Champagne unless
it's from that region. Indeed, breweries and vinards can (and do)
leverage off of these regulations to promote the quality of their
products.
This is all in the name of protecting the consumer (myself included),
which, IMHO can't always tell the difference between marketing BS and the
"real thing."
Steve, you do have a good point about contacting the manufacturers, but
there is no "arsenal of weapons to combat fraud" in the beer marketplace
that I'm aware of, unless Consumer Reports now has a beer section. :)
Writing a letter to the brewery isn't going to change their mind while
their making money off of folks who don't know better.
Anyway, I'll drink my homebrew most of the time and stick to buying local
brands I know brew a quality product when I do buy. I think those who
read HBD are educated enough to avoid copycat products, so maybe therein
lies a solution: educate those around us about quality beers.
Brew On....
t
| Timothy Sherburne | Creative Chaos |
| Software Developer | cchaos@northwest.com |
| Macintosh & Java | |
------------------------------
From: Timothy Sherburne <cchaos@northwest.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 20:19:08 -0700
Subject: RE: Botulism & Bleach & Chillers
Jorge Blasig writes:
>I am concerned about the possibility that people who
>drink my beer could get botulismn.
Don't worry, Jorge. No one will get sick off your beer, unless they drink
too much! :)
It's not possible for pathogens to grow in beer. I think the reason is
the pH of beer is too low. Do we have anyone with facts and figures in
the house?
Jorge also writes:
>I have another question. The bleach that you all use to sanitize your
>carboys, does it contain chlorine or not? I sanitize with a product that
>contains chlorine (HClO - sodium hypochloride) and also used another
>product which contains ammonia. I rinsed with tap water several times until
>there is no signs of these products. Did I work correctly? I am concern
>that the chlorine could give some strange flavor to the mead.
Personally, I prefer a product called Idophor, an iodine-based cleaner
used by insitutions and restaurants to clean glassware. I can't remember
the brand name off hand, but your brewing supply store should carry it.
It's slightly more expensive than bleach, but the contact time is less
and there's no question of "did I rinse it enough" since you don't rinse
at all. A strange flavor could result in your mead if you don't rinse
THOROUGHLY after using bleach.
And:
>I also need the dimensions for a copper immersion wort chiller (3/8" or
>1/4" or 1/2" internal diameter) which allows me to chill aproximately 6
>gallons in a standard time (say 15 minutes). Any suggestions. I worked on
>it and calculated that I would need aproximately 10 feet of copper
>tubing. Am I correct? I will use tap water in the coils and will immerse
>it in pot.
I used 3/8" because I couldn't get fittings for 1/4" tubing to a 5/8"
garden hose connection. Note that the smaller the tubing = quicker
cooling, but you run up against the law of deminishing returns: smaller
tubing = more backpressure = low throughput. Someone on the 'net has
plans for a chiller if you want them (search the HBD archives), but I
just went to Home Depot and bought a roll of 'fridge tubing and
compression fittings for $20. I wrapped the tubing around a 1 gallon
glass jug to make a coil. Take care not to crimp the tubing, though. It's
a real problem on the smaller tubing sizes, esp. 1/4".
Have fun...
t
| Timothy Sherburne | Creative Chaos |
| Software Developer | cchaos@northwest.com |
| Macintosh & Java | |
------------------------------
From: Timothy Sherburne <cchaos@northwest.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 20:26:52 -0700
Subject: RE: traveling beer
There's been some discussion of bringing your beer on planes lately. I've
got three points:
1) SEARCH THE ARCHIVES! This discussion seems to come up every couple of
months or so. Learn from those who came before you...
2) Wrap it up. Put your bottles (or whatever vessle you choose) in
garbage bags. I understand the fluctuations in cabin pressure can cause
weak bottles to break or loose caps to come off. If you do search the
archives, you may see a story where someone put their unwrapped beers in
an overhead compartment. Later, during the flight, the person sitting
under the beer got a shower...
3) You may need to prove that the contents of those suspicious looking,
unlabeled bottles is actually beer. Another archives story: An overseas
traveler was accused of trying to smuggle Molatov cocktails onto the
plane, and needed to drink a randomly selected bottle to prove it was
really homebrew.
t
| Timothy Sherburne | Creative Chaos |
| Software Developer | cchaos@northwest.com |
| Macintosh & Java | |
------------------------------
From: Timothy Sherburne <cchaos@northwest.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 20:31:11 -0700
Subject: RE: How do I do this brewing??
Mark, you may want to try a partial mash first. This will give you a good
idea of the work involved and the techniques used before you have to go
live.
Another text you may want to look at is "The Complete Handbook of Home
Brewing" by Dave Miller, ISBN 0-88266-517-0. It covers brewing in a more
technical light, and is based on all-grain (full and partial) brewing
rather than extract brewing.
t
| Timothy Sherburne | Creative Chaos |
| Software Developer | cchaos@northwest.com |
| Macintosh & Java | |
------------------------------
From: Alex Santic <alex@salley.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 00:50:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Insulating Easymasher kettle
Jack Schmidling writes:
> If you do not wish to be bothered with the addition of heat and stirring,
> you should put the EM in an insulated cooler and just be satisfied with
> simple infusion mashes. But to try to turn a kettle into an insulated
> cooler does not seem to make much sense.
Jack, you make some good points and I am happy to accept your admonition
that there is no harm caused by all the extra stirring of the mash, but I
don't accept your analysis that I am trying to hit a nail with a
screwdriver. I really like being able to store just one piece of versatile
equipment rather than adding another bulky thing to my collection.
Accepting that, then I'm sure you would agree that adding insulation to
the kettle is a rational and useful enhancement of the system. To
accomplish this, I've acquired some fiberglass water heater insulation.
I'm cutting it to size, sealing the open edges, and adding some velcro so
that the insulation can be easily applied or removed. I anticipate this
will be a simple and effective solution.
Depending on the results of a heat-resistance test, I may even leave the
insulation on during the boil. I've been having trouble maintaining a
six-gallon rolling boil on my range without a rather precise positioning
of my kettle lid (which, to complicate matters, likes to shift around) . A
propane burner is overkill and impractical in my apartment, but
insulation may allow me to ditch to lid.
So, as you can see, I am pursuing rational solutions for my particular
situation.
> If one chooses to use a kettle for mashing, we assume the one does so in
> order to get better control of the process, viz. any temp at any point
> during the mash. The price one pays for this capability is gas (heat)
> and the need to stir.
I found an inexpensive digital meat-probe type of thermometer at my local
Lechter's Housewares which is very fast and accurate. Maybe it told me
more than I should know, because I discovered that almost constant
attention is required to keep the mash temperature correct and even.
The temp differential between the center and sides of the mash in an
uninsulated SS kettle can easily be several degrees. Stirring accelerates
the heat loss, and adding heat tends necessitates yet more stirring to
even out the temp. In light of this, the issue of control can be rather
theoretical. A mechanized stirring solution such as yours certainly
simplifies matters, as does a few dollars worth of boiler insulation and
velcro
Alex Santic
NYC
------------------------------
From: BRIAN F. THUMM <THUMMBF@GWSMTP.NU.COM>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 08:01:49 -0400
Subject: Low Gravities
Here's my problem:
I consistently get low gravity worts. I mean...lower than I expect. I'm not a
grain brewer yet, but I do some partial mash stuff and use lots of adjuncts /
specialty grains. But, even with an extract brew, I would expect my gravities
to be higher than they come out. I've even brought my hydrometer to work to
calibrate it in the chemistry lab, and it's right on!
For example, I brewed a recent batch with 6# light malt syrup and 1# crystal.
I had also tried to mash 3# pumpkin with 1# Pale Ale malt, but I don't think I
got good extraction. Even so, with a tiny bit of efficiency from the pale ale
(I had good conversion temps in the mash), and a pound of crystal and 6# of
extract in a five gallon batch, I would have expected a gravity near 50. I
boiled for an hour in 3 gallons, cooled to 70 degrees, racked off the trub to
enough water to make 5 gallons - O.G. of 36. Not even close!
Am I losing gravity by only boiling in 3 gallons? Is my sugar getting
irretreivably lost in the trub? If I were to boil the full 5 gallons, my trub
would be lower in gravity, right? Thereby increasing the gravity of the wort?
Am I on the right track?
TIA
Brian
------------------------------
From: "Royce Hesley" <rhesley@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 06:31:41 -0700
Subject: Big Brother and Beer
I've been following the thread about "government intervention" in
regulating beer styles, and I agree with those folks that say "no way!". If
you want an example of what that's like, take the asinine law that says
beer is "beer" at one alcohol level, "ale" at another, and "malt liquor" at
yet another here in California and some other states (an attempt at repeal
in CA was recently defeated). That should tell you as well as anything how
much Big Brother knows about beer...*not*!
Pardon me while I don my flame-retardant underwear...
Take care,
- ----Royce----
"I never drink...wine..."
Bela Lugosi, DRACULA, 1933
------------------------------
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc@mcimail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 08:35 EST
Subject: In-Vivo Punkin Ale update/Jethro
Date: Monday, 21 October 1996 9:31am ET
To: STC012.HONLY@STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch@STC001
Subject: In-Vivo Punkin Ale update/Jethro missed the boat
First, an update on the mashed-in-punkin brew.
Things went relatively well, actually:
The Recipe-
1 large (3 Gallon) Punkin
5#s Pale Malt
1#s Special B Malt
1#s Crystal Malt
1/4 cup Chocolate Malt
15ozs Libbys Canned Pumkin
1oz Cascades
1/4oz Hallertaur
Nutmeg, ginger, cinnamon, clove, allspice, vanilla per your favorite pie
recipe Irish Moss
1.5#s DME
The Process-
Boiled up 3 gallons water. Cleaned out punkin. Poured the boiling water (pay
attention Murphy) into the punkin and steeped the insides for about 30 min.
Drained the punkin (via my aforementioned EM knockoff) and used 2 gals to
preboil the canned pumpkin. Mashed into the crushed malts inside the punkin
at 150F. After about 30 mins, I had to decoct back up to 150 F from 135F.
After another 30 mins, the punkin sprang a small leak in the bottom (Hello
Murphy, what took ya so long?). I was able to collect the leakage and add to
the boil pot. I sparged with 1.5 gallons 170F water and collected in the boil
pot. 60 minute boil with Cascades at start, IM, spices, and Hallertaur at 15
minutes left. (I added 1.5#s of DME at beginning of boil, and steeped
specialtygrains) OG- 1.050
Pitched a 1056 starter and got activity at about 6 hours.
The sparge went pretty well. The runnings were deep orange turning to light
orange as the sparge neared completion.
The hydrometer tasting went well, too, although I couldn't get anyone else to
try a sip.
I'll update around Turkey Day when I plan to sample my first bottle.
Greg (whatta) Guy- What does Robert Koerner say in his book about the relative
Oxygen permeability of Polycarbonate? I usually clear my beers in a square
PC carboy for about a week.
Mr Gump made some excellent points about the treatment of plastic goods in
The Land Down Under. His observation about the lower O2 content, while
accurate, was credited to the wrong reasons. Where do you think all the
CO2 from our northern brewing, purging and breathing goes? We all know
CO2 is heavier than O2, right? Well, all our generated CO2 goes Down
Under, and displaces more of their O2 back up to us. Thanks, Mates,
and don't forget to oxygenate 20% longer than we do, Eh?
L8R
E-man
Cheif Punkin Cutter and Heavy Breather
Bent Dick Yactobrewrey
Way Up North in Kentwood MI
------------------------------
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:26:56 -0400
Subject: Glass vs. Plastic/Aeration
It has been claimed that:
1) Plastic carboys are more permeable to oxygen than glass and as a result
will make bad beer. (BTW, I'm a glass snob)
and
2) You need to buy an oxygen tank in order to provide sufficient
oxygentation. (I use an air-sucking racking cane)
The problem with the first claim is that nobody has ever really
PROVEN how much oxygen is too much. Its a straight forward matter to
calculate rates of permeation and total oxygen permeated at any given time
- - but how much is too much? Data from the plastic fans indicate that it
might be alot higher than many of us think, or the polycarbonate bottles
are alot less permeable than we think.
On the second claim, intial gravity, aeration and quantity of yeast
pitched interact - if I pitch ~250 ml of yeast slurry that I get from a
local micro (BarrelHouse Brewing Co. - great beers!) and aerate with my
low-tech aerator I get fast starts and good finishes for an IPA. OTOH, I
didn't expect that to be sufficient for the 1.094 doppelbock I made last
month. So I point out that "optimum" aeration is an undefined term. I
won't argue that pure oxygen gives you *higher* DO levels, but is it
necessarily *better*?
Waiting for data to prove something.
Dave
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
& Dave Harsh &
& DNRC Minister of Bloatarianism O- &
& Cincinnati, Ohio &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:46:20 -0400
Subject: Killer Chiller Comments
David Hill sez:
"KennyEddy argues when discussing the killer chiller
that several flat spirals mounted horizontaly
one above the other in the wort
chill better because they overcome the problem of
temperature gradients forming in wort chilled with one
horizontal spiral and no agitation. "
Hmm...I don't remember saying that...my apologies if I wasn't clear or if my
memory is failing me (wouldn't be the first time either way)...
Actually I simply *asked* if this configuration would be better from a
convection standpoint, and I was making a comparison to the "standard"
*vertical-coil* (spring-shaped) immersion chiller where any convection of
cooler wort is mostly down the sides (along the coils). One of your
countrymen -- a well-known thermodynamicist who recently unsubscribed this
digest (and will be missed, dammit) -- responded to me via private e-mail
that he felt that agitation would probably not be necessary.
A single flat spiral should chill the wort "more evenly" since the cooler
wort is more evenly distributed across the diameter of the brewpot rather
than being concentrated at the edges. Four flat spirals then should be
better than one since the cooler wort "falling" from each coil is *further*
cooled by the one below it (alignment effects notwithstanding) -- remember
that each coil contains a "fresh" supply of cold water, whereas successive
coils of a vertical-coil chiller contain increasingly warm water.
*****
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode@sdrc.com>
Date: 21 Oct 1996 09:03:47 -0600
Subject: Whooops....IPA
It was a beautiful weekend here in Wisconsin, and I took advantage of the
weather to brew an American Pale Ale. While the beer was boiling in the
vollrath on the cajun cooker on the back patio, I went to the front and raked
the leaves. At the end of the session, after my immersion cooler had done
it's job, I racked the wort into my primary, planning on leaving the hops and
hot and cold break behind. As the kettle emptied, I noticed that an oak leaf
had found its way into the brew kettle! How long it had boiled, I don't know,
but it had boiled, as I always cool with a cover on. So.....
Is this now an IPA?
Am I about to find the real meaning of the word tannin?
IMBR?
Anyone with experience in the addition of leaves, let me know.
thanks.
Craig (Milwaukee, WI, where we won't have Pabst to kick around anymore)
------------------------------
From: Pickleman <wrp2@axe.humboldt.edu>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE:Carbonator caps
I have been using these for a while, and have found that the best way to
go about thyis carbonating business is to: 1)chill out! Get the liquid
very cold, but slushy is not necessary, 2)Get gassed! Overshoot the
desired CO2 level by cranking up those psi. (Warning: Don't blow you
head, hand, or curious friends up. I find that the 40 psi max they state
is quite adequate. Any more CO2 and I would suspect you're wanting to
enter a belching contest.), 3)Shake it, no, stupid, I mean the brew.
Shake the hell out of it, or until the bottle gets soft. 4) Repeat 2 and
3 until it can't take any more co2, 5) Relax..., 6)Take it off, after a
wait (about the time of one homebrew) you can unscrew the cap and have
minimal loss. Just put the regular cap on and this should be plenty
fizzy till its gone. I love these things!
Pickleman
...I dress this way so that nobody will ever ask,
"Excuse me, but do you work here?"
...I was a chemistry major until I found out that Beer's Law
has nothing to do with a frosty pint.
------------------------------
From: James A Kinley/DELCO <JAKINLEY@mail.delcoelect.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:31:27 +0000
Subject: Brown Scum
I brew all grain batches and bring the wort up to boiling for 15 minutes before
I start the 60 minute clock. Before the first hop addition, I will scoop out
the brown scum that develops around the side of my brew pot. Is this a smart
thing to do? What is this material and does it serve any useful purpose?
Jim Kinley
JAKinley@mail.delcoelect.com
------------------------------
From: Mike Beauregard <mbeaureg@euclid.ucsd.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 08:55:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using corny kegs as fermenters
Hi all,
While reading the great debate between plastic and glass
fermentation vessels, I became curious what the collective thought
about fermenting in corny kegs. I use corny kegs for both primary
and secondary fermentation, as well as serving as you might have
guessed. I hook up a blowoff tube by removing the gas intet valve
and sliding a piece of plastic tubing over the post. I have not
experienced any problems but I was wondering if anyone else used
this same method or if anyone knew of any problems with using cornys
in this way.
TIA
Mike
- --
Mike Beauregard
mbeaureg@ucsd.edu
------------------------------
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:11:35 -0400
Subject: Re: traveling beer
A couple of observations:
* The security checkpoint staff are not employed by the airline, but
by the airport, and may have different policies than the airline.
* It was observed (once) in this forum that bottles with labels are
much less suspicious looking than bottles without labels, even if
said labels are hand-made. (This was from personal experience,
trying to carry unlabeled bottles through an airport checkpoint.)
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 09:05:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Mead advice.
I guess this note is only slightly "brewing related", but soem readers
may have some advice for me. Feel free to respond off-line.
I just made my first mead. Does it matter what the OG is? I got
1.075; I think most people make it stronger, right?
Do people rack meads to a secondary fermenter?
Not knowing what yeast to use, I used a Lalvin wine yeast. should
come out pretty dry I assume. Would an ale yeast have been better?
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
From: "Herb B Tuten" <herb@zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:16:36 -0500
Subject: CO2 tank, split mash
Greetings All,
Someone please slap me if this is silly...
I noticed this weekend that my fire extinguisher is empty.
Then it hit me (an idea, not the extinguisher), could a
regulator be screwed into the top of this thing, which could be
filled with 2.5 lbs of CO2? The label says the limit is 300 psi.
Has anyone tried this? It used to be filled with a special
chemical. I assume that would have to be cleaned out somehow.
The following question was posted a while back, but with zero
responses I figured I'd try again...
If a mash tun will not hold all the necessary
grain for a batch, would it be ok to split the mash/sparge operation?
Ok, it would take hours longer; but someone with a 5 gallon Gott
could brew a barleywine. Is there any reason not to collect/sparge
the first half, and let it sit quietly in the unheated, covered brew
kettle until the second half is added later? I recently collected
data from folks about the limitations of their mash tun, and this idea
might help alot of brewers. Has anyone done this?
Cheers,
Herb
herb@zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us
------------------------------
From: "John Penn" <john_penn@spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Date: 21 Oct 1996 14:21:35 -0400
Subject: Guiness/Becks/22oz bottles
Subject: Time:1:59 PM
OFFICE MEMO Guiness/Becks/22oz bottles Date:10/21/96
Question: If 4oz dextrose/5 Gallons is a good carbonation level for 12 oz
bottles, what's a good priming level for 22 oz. bottles? I keep reading about
exploding 22oz. bottles and about the carbonation differences in larger
bottles/kegs, etc. So how much should one decrease the priming amount for
22oz bottles vs. 12 oz?
Becks: I am learning more about beer because of homebrewing and the HBD.
Now that I know what light struck/skunked beer smells like, i.e. Heineken. I
had a Beck's Dark this weekend and it had a slightly skunked smell. I used to
really like Beck's dark. Am I getting pickier? Is Beck's dark lightly
skunked deliberately? Is it just the green bottle that might have been
sitting on a shelf long enough to get skunked?
Guiness: About 16 or 17 years ago a college friend who had stayed in England
for the summer had me try his favorite beer, Guiness Stout. He was very
disappointed that it didn't taste like the Guiness he had in England. I
couldn't drink the whole thing the first time and even though I drink it
occasionally now I think I prefer a smoother Irish Stout like Murphy's. At
any rate, after reading so much about Guiness and how different the draft
version is, I finally had Guiness Stout on draft at Rose & Crown Pub in Lewes,
Delaware and I'm glad I did. It had a creamy head that stayed with it and was
smoother and certainly less alcoholic than the bottled version. Very
different and distinctive. Sorry for the BW, hope someone else had a similar
experience with their first Guiness Stout draft and can relate.
John Penn
------------------------------
From: "korz" <korz@xnet.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:11:09 +0000
Subject: Plastic fermenters/HSA at A-B
Andy writes:
>Remember this thread started because there was an ignorant assertion made
>that use of plastic in brewing leads to stale and/or infected beer. This is
>a recurring issue on the HBD that needed correcting. That's it. I'm certain
>that even my rantings will make zero difference, and we'll still see this
>type of statement again in a few months.
You are mistaken. The thread was started because Dave Burley claimed
that one brewer's infection problems were most likely caused by his
using glass carboys and Charlie Papazian's blowoff method of
fermentation. Dave asserted that the difficulty of cleaning the
carboy was the source of the infection.
I posted a rebuttal claiming that Dave was the first to post that
plastic fermenters are easier to sanitize than glass and that this
statment is "baloney." I also put in an auxilliary comment saying
that lagering in plastic is likely to cause oxidation of alcohols
into aldehydes. Suddenly, the HBD was filled with more than a
half dozen posts from Australia and elsewhere making all kinds of
claims in defense of plastic fermenters.
There were claims that because water vapour does not pass readily
thorugh HDPE that oxygen would not either. This is incorrect. The
permeability of a plastic for one gas is not related to the
permeability of another. For example (from the Cole-Parmer catalog,
plastics physical properties table), LDPE has a permeability of 60
for O2 and 280 for CO2 (units throughout this post will be
((cc-m)/sec-cm^2-cm Hg))*10^-10) where as for nylon, O2 is 1.0
whereas CO2 is 1.8.
There was a claim that polycarbonate was less permeable than HDPE
because it has a "tighter molecular structure" or somesuch. Wrong
again: O2 for HDPE is 10 whereas O2 for PC is 20.
Then there was the assertion that since the beer is saturated with
CO2, that O2 would not dissolve in it. Absolutely wrong! That's
simply not how gasses work.
Then someone said that HDPE must be O2-barrier because any food or
milk that we got in HDPE would be oxidized. Guess what? It is.
When I opened my HB supply store, O2-barrier packaging was almost
impossible to find, certainly among homebrew supply distributors (now
they have it). I searched high and low and finally found two types
of plastic that were made specifially to be oxygen barrier. One week
in 2mil HDPE was equivalent to 2.5 years in the plastic I had found.
This was for hop storage, incidentally. The other plastic I found
that was O2-barrier (and I use for whole hops) is made for the meat
packaging industry!
After all this, I would like to point out that it is the seal on the
plastic fermenters that is suspect and not the oxygen permeability of
the actual walls of the fermenter. They are indeed more permeable
than glass, but at the thickness of the plastic (probably a hundred
times that of a plastic bag) the permeability through the walls is
not really an issue. Only two of the five HDPE fermenters that I
have downstairs have gasketted lids. The others just press-on.
I never meant for this to become such a battle and I don't have any
bad feelings for anyone who posted rebuttals to my post. Again,
please recall that I was defending glass, which (in my mind) is
inferior to plastic in price and durability.
***
I'm just now getting used to using Pegasus mail and lost the text of
one poster who posted that A-B uses sterile air to scrub hot wort.
This was in their "Beer University" or whatever they call it.
The fact is that A-B uses NITROGEN and not AIR to scrub DMS out of
their hot wort. I guess that to the people that put together the
class, "nitrogen gas" sounded too scary and they figured that since
air is 79% nitrogen, it's okay to substitute "air" for "nitrogen" in
their lecture. A-B's class may have been entertaining, but it was far
from accurate.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2240
****************************
